TV News Coverage of Proposed Massachusetts Law
GamePolitics has just tracked down a WCVB-5 news report which aired prior to last week’s video game hearing before the Judiciary Committee of the Massachusetts Legislature.
Prominently featured is Dr. Michael Rich (left), director of the Center on Media and Child Health at Children’s Hospital Boston. Dr. Rich, who has previously been critical of the potential “training” capabilities of the Nintendo Wii controller, alternately refers to violent games as “killing simulators” and “murder simulators.”
Oddly enough, also located in Boston is Dr. Cheryl Olson of Massachusetts General Hospital. Her upcoming book Grand Theft Childhood, reports that playing violent games can be a non-threatening source of relaxation for 12-14-year-olds.
We wonder if these Boston healthcare professionals with seemingly opposite views are in communication with one another?
March 28th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
what the fuck was that?
Why was assassin’s creed shown.
March 28th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
@GP Doubtful they are in communication. Him being in healthcare means he makes less money if there’s no one to scare into getting insurance or health checks from confused parents over issues like that. It is his job to make sure bs like that exists to keep people going to his center.
March 28th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
Doctors around the New England area usually don’t talk to each other too much until there’s a patient involved… and even then, they don’t always communicate too well, especially when they’re in different hospitals.
Usually, we get a better report out WCVB with the alternate viewpoint coming from other experts rather than the kids.
March 28th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
XD at woman talking about games having “subliminal messages”.
March 28th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Just blows my mind.
I’d like to believe that all of these people think that what they’re doing is just and good, but it’s getting hard.
March 28th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
It reminds me of another comment on democracy (paraphrased): “No idea is safe until those who are unable to understand the idea can vote on it.”
March 28th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Is it just me, or does he have a “you want me to WHAT?” look on his face?
March 28th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
If there was no fear of children being harmfully affected by media, then there would be no need for a “Center on Media and Child Health”. Hmmmmm.
I’d prefer to hear from a medical professional whose livelihood isn’t directly tied to whether or not a particular outcome is achieved in this situation.
March 28th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
@Bill
My guess is it’s a relic from the “TV will destroy teh children” era.
March 28th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Why won’t they stop their pointless crusade against fun????
March 28th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
@Shaesyco
They’re not having it, therefore it must be bad.
March 28th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
@ Bill
What? Next thing you’ll tell me that the guy selling me an EB Edge card has some sort of bias. He says it’s a good deal.
March 28th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
@ Dick Ward
Can you still use those? I think I was told over a year ago that they were no longer valid and that I should throw it away.
It’s still in my wallet, of course, along with a whole slew of other useless cards, but I digress…
I wonder if that book is any good. Anyone read it?
March 28th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Is today idiot day or something? First the war with the UK and now this. Thank goodness I’m not an alcoholic, otherwise I’d try to work off the pain with a nice glass of Jack…
March 28th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
@Ragnaar
Unfortunately, those who don’t understand tend to have votes as well, so that’s a poor guarantee of safety in practice.
March 28th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
@KillianD:
Re-read it… it basically says those who don’t understand are the ones who vote.
March 28th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
@lumi
You know, I’m not sure, but it’s the first example I could think of. Well, the first example was actually a long winded thing about getting ripped off on trade in values, but the EB Edge thing was a bit snappier so I went with that. Now I feel like one of those terrible comedians telling out of date jokes. “What’s with this whole internet thing? It’ll never work!”
March 28th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
Jesus Christ I’m tired of this shit. It happens so much with video game coverage: “Here’s a doctor to give his opinion on the issue, as counterpoint we have a three year old child.”
March 28th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
games having subliminal messages, lol… CRUSH KILL DESTROY!!!
March 28th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Games do have sublimnal messages, they just aren’t “hidden” How many people noticed Axe advertisements all over Rainbow Six Vagas? Or the LARGE amount of billboard ads in NFS:UG2? You may not pay attention to those billboards but your mind registers them.
If games are great trainers why do I still suck at using my Katana.
March 28th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Better watch out, or I’ll kill you in third person!
March 28th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
@Ebonheart
It thought subliminal MEANT they were hidden. IE you weren’t supposed to know they’re there…
March 28th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
Subliminal messages? That girl is crazy! There has been ZERO data ever showing that subliminal messages work. The efficacy of subliminal messages has been largely debunked for over twenty years. Why do people bring this stuff up?
March 28th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
@vinniethewop:
The girl’s just from Massachusetts. Everybody’s crazy there. Even me when I lived there (and even now when I don’t).
March 28th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
@ Jabrwok
Sublimnal can but doesn’t nessasarily means it has to, colorful signs tend to have the same effect that a hidden image does. They’re meant to leave the “whisper you just can’t hear” if you understand what I mean.
@ Vinnie
If it didn’t work, why do a few people while watching the “Soda Pop Group” go get pop corn? Your right that in controlled groups it doesn’t work, but in practice, 1 or 2 people out of 100 doesn’t mean big profits, but it does mean profit. It tends to only work with advertisements, so that means no Manchurine Canidate.
March 28th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
Err meant to put “Doesn’t nessasarily means it has to be hidden” in the first line.
March 28th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
People tend to forget that 200 to 100 years ago Adults allowed kids to learn to use guns. I find it funny that the gamers makes more sense than what the Sublimnal girl said.
March 28th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
@ jesse
Now, don’t forget to be open minded when your older!
March 28th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
@Ebonheart, if it doesn’t work in controlled experiments, then it doesn’t work period! That’s the whole point of the scientific process, experimentation, replication and peer review…and no subliminal message study has ever stood up to any of that. Its all based on James Vicary’s original experiment, which he later admitted he falsified. Recent testing has never produced a significant ratio of efficacy in any lab setting. They tried to use it with brand recognition in 2007 but their experiment was a replica of Vicary’s, which was already debunked…so what’s it matter if the same faulty method produced the same faulty data?
March 28th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
Did you know that if you spin a Super Smash Bros. Brawl disc backwards, it says, “The Wario is Paul.”
I think this means that I am supposed to start worshipping Luchario and simulate murder by throwing fireballs at people. Can you imagine if kids had access to this sort of thing?!?!
Good thing somebody out there is thinking of the children.
March 28th, 2008 at 11:51 pm
It’s very unlikely that the two researchers are not in communication with each other, given the topic of research they are conducting. Having opposite opinions on a topic is not a reason not to contact with each other. Take Jack Thompson and the various people in the gaming industry, for example.
March 29th, 2008 at 12:05 am
I wonder how many times in my day I’ve heard the words “murder simulator”.
March 29th, 2008 at 1:41 am
@gamclucks,
I hardly believe that. However, I do believe that Nintendo approved this message:
http://www.sodahead.com/poll/27749/
March 29th, 2008 at 4:20 am
I could say one generalisation….
1 person who has…Highly religous views + over the age of 40 + working in a family organisation + who has never played any Videogames + who is also fueled by so much ‘protect the children’ emotion = Someone who is more likely to say that Videogames are murder simulators…
Now that is just a generalisation in my part, but it is still the same sort of generalisation that these people preach to the mainstream news for sensationalism.
March 29th, 2008 at 6:18 am
that subliminal talk is nothing more than a girl who was probably rear ended more times than a pick up truck.
Honestly do any of you feel any more different or changed after playing a video game?
No right?
Boston…i would assume has a high crime record otherwise the Mayor would not have spent so much of the taxpayer dollars going after the videogame industry.
March 29th, 2008 at 8:14 am
@ Vinnie
@Ebonheart, if it doesn’t work in controlled experiments, then it doesn’t work period!”
If that was true than the lightbulb would never exist. It took how many tries? Controlled experaments don’t always give the same results as feild tests. If controlled experiments gave the same result as real world application if we gave everyone placibo’s the world would be cured of every deases (placibo’s are sugar pills which many people say cure this problem or that problem)
“Recent testing has never produced a significant ratio of efficacy in any lab setting.”
Key word is SIGNIFICANT, Even I said “in practice, 1 or 2 people out of 100 doesn’t mean big profits, but it does mean profit.” Subliminal messaging does work, not in the rapid picture movement that movies in the 50’s did, which most people think is the only form of subliminal messaging. Ever look at a picture and just think “Somethings wrong with this picture”? That’s subliminal messaging that advertisers use it’s “the whisper in your mind you just can’t hear” It’s meant to produce a memory and that memory is associated with that picture in support of Product A. There IS something wrong with the picture.
If you think I’m going “MANCHURINE CANIDATE!” Your sorely mistaken.
March 29th, 2008 at 8:32 am
Sure, FPS games are murder simulators - he’s absolutely right on that and I’m tired of the PC folks who don’t want to admit it. BUT playing a murder simulator no more prepares the player to shoot someone than a combat flight sim prepares one to shoot planes out of the sky over Baghdad. I’ve played many flight sims in the last 30 years but I’ve never once piloted a real plane, commanded a real sub or a real tank.
In short, the guy’s whole premise is nonsense. It’s based on speculation and pseudo science. Next they’ll be blaming videogames for global climate change.
March 29th, 2008 at 8:39 am
I think the high crime rate in Boston probably has much more to do with poverty, high unemployment and poor quality schools than it has to do with videogames. But then again addressing those issues is far more expensive than putting together a law on videogames, and a law restricting videogames makes it look (to all the weak-minded out there) like Mayor Menino is doing something about a ‘real’ problem.
In short, when the state coffers are low and doing something substantial is too expensive, it’s better to appear as if you’re doing something.
March 29th, 2008 at 10:47 am
@ Ian
Of coarse there murder simulators, if it was FPH (first person hugging) it would be a hugging simulator wouldn’t it?
You know what to do when you have a problem thats going to cost a lot of money? Find a cheaper problem.
March 29th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
@Ebonheart
“If that was true the lightbulb would never exist”
I’m not sure where you’re going with that. The beauty of science is that it keeps testing itself and testing itself until it gets it right. As far as the placebo effect goes, most people ARE taking placebos and seeing results. Check your pharmacy for weight loss pills, sugar blockers, ginsing, and all the other “natural” remedies.
“Recent testing has never produced a significant ratio of efficacy in any lab setting.”
Ebon, this doesn’t mean that it works on a few people, it means that a few people are going to want a soda. Hell, I want a soda right now, but that doesn’t mean I was looking at subliminal messages. When the amount of effect is very small, and not constant, then it is usually just random error. Can’t stop some people from wanting soda, Ebon.
March 29th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
@Ebonheart
You know, murder simulation implies a lot. I’d accept ’shooting simulator’, though even that can be a stretch. Murder isn’t about just shooting the gun. A real murder simulator would, in my mind, have similar psychological effects to a real murder. For example, if I was to create a game like the sims, and then 30 hours into gameplay, force the player to kill his wife. I don’t know any game that acts as anything more than a target practice simulator.
March 29th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
@Anon
personally i’ve lost count.
March 29th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
@ Ward
It was actaully sarcasim, though understanding their arguments it would be a murder simulated, even if it a justifiable homicide. As for he sims, that would make it a simulated murder, do it over and over; it transphorms into a murder simulator.
@ Anon
Higher than I can count.
March 30th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
@Ebon, Placebos are used as control groups when testing drugs, while the experimental group takes the real drugs. The reason they do this, is to help establish the margin of error, as there will be those who psychological claim a positive response to the placebo even when there is zero biological evidence that anything positive happened to them. Studies are not statistically significant if the margin of error is larger than the actual percentage of people seemingly affected in the experimental group.
In your example, 1-2 percent of people who seem to have been influenced by subliminal messages has always been LOWER than the margin of error (usually 3-4% in most cases) which again, means the efficacy of subliminal messages is not statisticaly significant.
March 31st, 2008 at 12:22 am
I once read that 98% percent of the population is sheep, while 1% is good, the other 1% is bad. It would be interesting if they ended up contacting one another.
March 31st, 2008 at 12:55 pm
@Dick Ward
The only games that come close to true simulators would probably be flight and driving games. And the only thing they can probably simulate with a lot of accuracy is the visuals and physics aspect. The tactile “feel” is just enhanced a bit, and a bit more if you had custom controls like a cockpit or peripherals.
To go on a different topic, when will we be able to police the government?
March 31st, 2008 at 3:26 pm
@JustChris
Exactly my point. Even the best PC flight simulator doesn’t truly prepare anyone to fly a plane. While the controls may be the same, the experience isn’t. Calling a game like Counterstrike a murder simulator that can prepare someone to kill is like saying I’ll get better at basketball by playing 2k7. Incidentally, I put 40+ hours into that game. I’m still flabby and unable to hit the basket to save my life.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
(think I got that right)
April 1st, 2008 at 1:20 pm
@ Vinnie
I have no idea what your argueing at this point, I have said in more words that statisticlly sublimital messaging is so low it’s not even worth using outside advertisements.
And yes I even said placibo’s don’t work, and if they did to sell those. That was a bit of sarcasim in the first one.
@ Ward
The lightbuklb was a sarcastic responce to “if it doesn’t work in controlled experiments, then it doesn’t work period!”
I’ve honestly never been arguing that it works, I’ve been arguing it exists. I just wanted to take up the advocate and say it works.