I'd do the same, I think, if I were an Aussie and planned to play the game. A price hike AND the content cut? No thank you.

for a country that was established by British criminals, they sure are conservative.

@GP

So why did the Sydney Morning Herald say it was illegal? Average mistake?

@Nathan Cocks: Everything you say is true enough, but at least some media coverage in something like the SMH does tend to make some people think .... even if it is just between bites of their Tim Tam during the morning coffee break.

Importing isn't illegal, but selling/advertising the uncut version in-country is.

@Internet Hate Machine

You are an ill-informed, reactionary little fucktard.

It is NOT illegal to own an unrated game (or video, for that matter) in New Zealand!!! It is illegal to *sell* a game that has not been classified, or to own one that has been classified and found to be objectionable. Otherwise, you are quite entitled to import whatever you want. This information comes, by the way, direct from Bill Hastings. You know, the Chief Censor that you blasted for absolutely no cogent reason?

Oh, and $NZ150 for GTA IV? Where the FUCK are you buying yours from, then: "Discounts For Retards"?

[...] wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptSucks to be an Australian Grand Theft Auto fan these days. Not only will GTA IV be watered down in order to bypass Down Under government censorship, but fans will pay more for the lessened experience. Naturally, game consumers are finding a way to get a better, fairer deal - and perhaps a bit of revenge - by importing non-Aussie versions of the game. As the Syndey Morning Herald reports, Rebellious players import GTA IV because our censors still think games are child’s play, writes Jason Hill. Many Australian gamers have cancelled their [GTA IV] orders. Already angered by the price of the blockbuster in Australia - $120 compared to $US60 ($64) in North America - gamers have reacted with outrage to news… that developer Rockstar has edited the game for Australia in order to obtain an MA15+ rating. Many gamers said they cancelled their orders with Australian shops and will import a cheaper, uncut version, flouting the law. [...]

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Sorry, but this just makes me laugh.

I mean, doesn't the Australian government realize what it's doing? It's as if they actually want their citizens to undermine them in order to entertain themselves.

You Aussies really need to get yourself some Freedom of Speech.

GP: There is something deliciously ironic about gamers being forced by their government to turn to illegal means to acquire a crime game…

What part of importing is illegal in Australia? The importing itself or the uncencored Grand Theft Auto part?

@FAMAS
I believe it's the uncensored GTA part but I'm no australian lawyer.

Wait my Assuie brethern must pay 120 bucks for a water down? I would boycott but I already threw down 90 bucks for it.

Not Ebonheart's comment, but the import thing.

What about regional locks? will aussies be importing american consoles too? or is australia and US considered the same region?

The pricing is nothing new - we're a country ruled by media distribution monopolies. Example, we have ONE telecommunications company. That's it. All of the others rent their lines at exhorbitant rates so even when the competition does good they do even better. It's funny that even games that are quite shite cost upwards of $30 even though they've been out since the Playstation 2 was something to look forward too. For whatever reason it costs me less to import from ANY country than it would for me to scoot down to JB-HiFi and pick up a new copy of GTAIV that didn't cost Rockstar an extra couple grand to get their staff to change. This is why I don't vote.

I'm still confused as to what the government is afraid will happen if we get an uncensored version of this, what I suspect is fabulous, game. Rioting in the streets? Or missing out on several million dollars that could be brought into the local retailing industry instead of hemorrhaging out to other nations...

Hehe.That was a delicious blast of irony.

"GP: There is something deliciously ironic about gamers being forced by their government to turn to illegal means to acquire a crime game…"

Does Australia make it illegal to bypass region encoding? I know they ban imports of non-rated material, but what other laws are Australian gamers going to be violating in order to obtain/play copies of GTAIV?

I support breaking the law to force change in fucked up, paranoid governments. Enjoy GTA you guys!

@MaskedPixelante:

I'm guessing he'll probably just have the Escapist ship him a copy at their cost. They'd probably do it for him too, just to see how he pops off about the 'reduced' version being sold for all that money. Oh I can't wait to see that review. :)

Triple price and censored? I would have had a fit.

@Salen

Hey, yeah, I forgot about that. Yahtzee will be furious. :)

@Jabrwock:

Oh yes, he'll be furious alright. If there's one thing that Yahtzee knows, its being furious. Heck, he's already mad enough at how Australia gets games 3 months later than everyone else, kidding a 'slimmed down' version of GTA4 is gunna be beautiful cannon fodder for him.

So yes, I'm sure the Escapist will personally fly a copy of GTA4 to him on that winged marshmellow from the sherbert kingdom, if nothing other to see Yahtzee explode while their hit counter learns whole new levels of math to calculate the number of hits they get.

It should be like, 15% or 20% off.

$AU120? Is that all? Over here it's $NZ150 ($US118.56)! And we're getting the censored version! If that weren't bad enough we can't even get the real version legally because it's 'unrated'. *spits*

Fuck you (NZ chief censor) Bill Hastings, and fuck you Aussie censorship board! Your lack of balls is killing my gaming.

Err i meant double, not triple :S

@Internet Hate Machine
So what is stopping New Zealand people from importing their games the same way the Aussies do?

I should get into the import/export business. Buy games in the US, sell them to people down under for a small profit.

If you check out the link to the Sydney Morning Herald, they say its illegal to import anything not rated by the Australian censors. A copy of GTA uncut would not meet the MA15+ rating, and would therefore be "unrated". I could be and probably am wrong, though. Sorry if I am.

YES! YES! YES!

This is what more Aussie gamers NEED to be doing to show their displeasure at the outrageous prices we pay for games! And this is the kind of action we need to take to show the OFLC and various Attorney Generals that we WANT a R18+ classification.

@Kajex: Ownership of the game is NOT illegal. Sale of the uncut version is illegal. When will people get it through their heads that the ban is not on ownership, but sale.

@ Michael, MRK

In New Zealand, it is illegal to even possess any game or movie that is unrated. I could get 5 years jail if I got a hold of the uncensored version of GTA IV.

@Internet Hate Machine

I'd heard that before, but didn't think it was true. That's horrible.

Regarding my last post, are the people of New Zealand doing anything to change the system like the Australians are?

The censoring part is the government's fault obviously, but i wonder why Take 2 isn't getting flack over the price look at what happened with Rock Band in Europe. Unless they purposely raised the price to encourage aussies to import. (if it was the government's fault for the inflated price as well ignore my comment)

Not only is the government watering down the game, but I think they are selling it at a high price to discourage EVERYONE from buying it. When will it get into these peoples heads that TV sucks and Videogames are becoming very popular with adults. (The reason I metioned TV is because that's what a lot of people expect adults to do with their free time.)

That's really terrible. The Australian government sounds downright tyrranical when it comes to media. If this doesn't work out for you Aussies, you're welcome to come up north.

That is awesome. Keep it up Aussies. Maybe one day they will consider a age limit under 16 is ridiculous. Why not a 18+ rating? Ridiculous. The Australian government needs to grow some common sense and realize games is for all ages and games are made for different age groups!

Sorry GP, it's not ironic that we import our games and movies, in fact, it's illegal to restrict importing due to "anti-competitive" behaviour at least as ruled by our supreme court. that's why all our DVDs and the like are region free.

As an Aus person, I'll try to clear up some stuff:

120 AUD. Heh, we have been paying at least $80 AUD for games since 1998 (when most US games were at $35ish), however back then, the exchange rate was more in line with what you would expect (about 60 cents in the dollar iirc).

With the exchange rate at 93 US cents to the dollar, GTA IV would cost $111.26USD if directly converted from the Aus price. That is, the importers etc are comfortable with the games being twice the price and are scooping up profits as the US dollar falls.

As for the edited version, our Attorney General's recently met on getting a R18+ classification added. It was opposed (as reported here) by one AG who is somewhat a religious zealot (that is, one rep of one state effectively cockblocks the entire country, democracy in motion). Ironically, even the porn industry supported the fundamental christians, saying that games shouldn't have the R18 rating (recent news on the Eros foundation's support was reported here as well I believe).

And, to ice the f#cking shit cake, those poor bastards across the ditch in Kiwiland (New Zealand for you yanks ; ) are getting the same piss watered version because R* seem to figure it's easier to just post one big shipment of edited "south pacific" versions than let the Kiwi's, who have an R18+ rating, enjoy the game as it is meant to be played.

Australian gamers will continue to either spend dollars overseas or pirate the game, hurting local retailers and importers (who I am sure were expecting this to be a bumper sale).

I am reliably informed that it is NOT illegal to import games into Australia, or use mod chips, so I've withdrawn my snarky comment in that regard...

I hate to break it to anyone but a handful of hardcore gamers cancelling pre-orders and importing is not going to make anyone sweat. This game will be huge and pricing/censorship is going to do nothing to change this flying out retailer's doors.

The vast percentage of people who buy this will not be 'gamers', will not be the kind of people who know a site like gamepolitics exists let alone give a damn in the first place. These are the people who will pick up the pre-orders that have been vacated. Fact is that 99% of the games buying public are a) not aware we're getting a censored version of the game and b) wouldn't know what they need to do for importation, who to go to, etc.

And to Catch 33 it isn't as simple as getting 'freedom of speech'.

Constitutionally guaranteed freedoms can be problematic and there are very good reasons Australia does not have a constitutionally enshrined bill of rights.

This is a matter of significant debate amongst those who study constitutional law. It always throws people but constitutional rights are not as innately good for a country as people think.

I'm not criticising having such a bill just pointing out it is not a clear cut thing that many American's (and for that matter many of those of other nations - many Aussies aren't aware we don't have freedom of speech in this country) assume it to be. It is a fairly specialised debate.

@minefield: Play-Asia.com does export region-free 360 games, I have a PAL 360 and that is where I (now) get all my games from.

Just check the compatibility of each game, the ones marked 'No Region Protection' are actually NTSC games that work fine on PAL. And when you look on a game's actual page, just under the 'featured review' there usually is a section showing what regions the game will work with.

-Twixn-

Since the Exchange rate started falling I've bought 80-90% of my games from Canada. Cheaper prices & earlier release dates. There's just no incentive to give money to the retailers here. About the only things I buy from local retailers is local release games. But that's assuming they didn't release it online (and cheaper).
I'm not sure but I don't think it's illegal to import banned games for personal use. Does anyone know for a fact?

Oh and I'm pretty sure you can import for your self as the game is Banned for SALE in Australia. There is no punishment for posession that I'm aware of. Besides possibly having the game confiscated.

It's technically illegal to import here as well. Anything that isn't rated by the OFLC goes under 'objectionable content' which under customs law is not allowed to be imported into the country. It's the same law that covers child pornography for example.

Having said that, I'll be importing because in my experience with these things the chance of it actually getting intercepted by customs is extremely low. After all, there is a version of GTAIV cleared for release here and I doubt the average shit kicking customs officer is going to know the difference, if they look at the contents of the package at all to begin with.

I'm an American game designer currently working in Australia. The people where I worked just cancelled their pre-orders and just did a mass order from outside the country.

Yep. As I like to say, "Life is wild as hell. Wild as hell."

Doesn't look like Swallowgames are taking any more orders, game.co.uk still has 'em going though (and at a purported discount to boot).

Swallowgames...I could make a joke about that...

One more reason for an R18+ rating for Australia

Also, importing a game from another country is NOT illegal because of the easy access of the internet and the freedoms of speech that comes with it.

Also as an Australian, for many years I have had to pay at least $100 for a new game, even when the Australian Dollar has been weak or strong, I still had to pay the same high price for a watered down game.

Like in the music industry, if you treat your consumers like criminals, then they will be criminals.

First the Australian government should give us Aussies the R18+ for games and also STOP trying to tax our games that we honestly want to play.

Or else I will import instead.

GOOD FOR THEM oh my GOD I cant say it ENOUGH!

As an Australian gamer I've been importing DS games for months now. Since it's region free, I don't have to worry about any compatability issues, and I get the games earlier (usually months before their release here) and cheaper (about half price).

A typical DS game is in the order of $60-$70 here, while I can order it online and have it couriered in a couple of days for under $50, closer to $35 if I'm willing to wait 2 weeks for delivery.

To give an example of how out of date we are, we don't have Phoenix Wright 3 here yet, despite it's US release being almost a year ago. It's not like they have any translation to do, what's the hold up?

Yep, what Eugene said about DS games. They're so cheap to buy from the US online you'd be a nut to do it any other way. Plus I've had my hands on the new Ninja Gaiden game for a couple of weeks now and it's not coming to Aust until the end of June. Absolutely senseless release schedule in this day and age. If I were a games retailer I would stomp all over Nintendo of Aust and other publishers to fix this issue up right now.

On the issue of censorship and prices, I've just done the same thing for No More Heroes, which is only locally available in the bloodless version. I bought it and the Wii Freeloader from an online seller for less than the retail store cost.
I can't believe there's even a debate about making an adults only rating here. At least we're not in Germany I guess.

IS IMPORTING ILLEGAL OR NOT? I keep hearing both and I'm becoming a bit confused.

typo

P.S you CANT re-sell it legally and cant offer it for rent

BY THE WAY UK PAL IS ZONE 2 NOT 4 LIKE AUSTRALIA + NEW ZEALAND

We will be getting R18 games very soon - the wheels are in motion and we shall have our day. Until then - IMPORT.

I've ordered my version from PlayAsia. Censorship can go to hell.

as an aussie i made this decision to import, i understand its illegal, in GTA4 the second i heard it was gonna be censored. it's bullshit that i have to resort to this and i will find a cheaper, region free game that hopefully customs will not seize.

ask the importers to remove th box cover in case the importation itself is illegal.

the customs guys might think is just another old CD given by a friend :p

@ Nathan Cocks

That was one the best, most well thought out posts I've read here in ages. Thanks for contributing.

@ Skylar

Not only is your comment utterly irrelevant, how on earth does it show support for your Australian cousins in this time of adversity for them? Grow up.

I bet Yatzhee will join the bandwagon of importing, oy. Fight DA POWA!

Just thought I'd through in my 2c too!

I've decided to import now as well, I'm going down to GameTraders tomorrow and cancelling my Special Edition X360 pre-order, and I'm definately going to download the soundtrack CD when it will be available, just to get at RockStar for the pricing stupidities!

As for the R18+ rating, nothing new, GTA III had the prostitutes removed, nothing major, but it was still censorship!

The pricing has always been ridiculous, once I confirm importing games from Canada is safe, once my order of GTA IV and The Orange Box arrive, I'll likely be doing my gaming business that way from now on.

But theres one thing I would like to confirm.
Does anyone know, from their own experience, if the Xbox Live Game functions are still intact on import games? Might sound like a stupid question, but a valid one!

- Ncc Tardis