@Steven Furtado

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

@ NeW SpEcTrUM - Excellent point, v. well made.

@ Keith K: "Just stop the development and sale of games in Europe and import directly from North America. It will save time and money for consumers. It wont really hurt developers and it will fuck over the European economies to shove this stupidity in their faces"

Um... you do realise that a load of developers are based in Europe, right? Where do you think GTA comes from? So, not only would that hurt devs badly, but it'd hurt gamers around the globe, too.

@ Shoehorn O'Plenty - pure awesome post.

@ point09micron - oh fuck off, you little shit. What kind of contribution do you think your post made? Grow up FFS.

Oh God, I hope it stays with this and doesn't go all American (no offense).

I can't see how the EU would have the power to legislate in this area. It looks outside their competence to me.

The Communication doesn't suggest the EU are going to do much beyond encouraging the Member States to better coordinate their policies. They already financially support PEGI so it looks like more of the same.

"When children go out to play today they enter the world of joysticks. We are not quite sure where they go and there is real anxiety from parents…"

There's the crux of the problem right there, they spell it out in very unambiguous and clear terms. THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND VIDEO GAMES AND THEY HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE WHAT THEIR KIDS DO. This is very easily solved, by a simple technique called "Being a decent parent". You take an interest in their interests. Not only will it form a bond between you, it means you are knowledgable about what they are doing and are therefore capable of making some informed decisions.

"Our clear message today is that industry and national authorities must go further to ensure that all parents have the power to make the right decisions for themselves and their child."

Newsflash! Parents ALREADY have the power to make the right decisions, but guess what? The majority of them are too lazy, don't care enough, or are too goddamn stupid to make those right decisions. That's not the industry's fault, it's not the retailers fault, it the parents fault! But heaven forfend you insult the parents, no, no, it must be that evil industry that we don't understand!

Just stop the development and sale of games in Europe and import directly from North America. It will save time and money for consumers. It wont really hurt developers and it will fuck over the European economies to shove this stupidity in their faces.

No wait! Better yet.. Just import directly from Canada. Screw the US' economy! :D

@ GusTavToo

I agree.

This seems like a threat from a toothless tiger. They already back PEGI, so to make a statement that it must go beyond PEGI is just as I think my bretheren on the other side of the pond put it... Rubbish.

If what Soldatlouis is correct (I dunno since I'm in the states) it definitely explains why such an uninformed statement was made. More of a, "Look we matter! SEE!! We're concerned for the childrens!"

Apparently the EU is getting bored messing with Microsoft so now they want to broaden their horizons. I'll be more concerned if they actually get some sort of legislation in place to put video game sales into law.

I sure am glad to live in America, where the Constitution prevents the government from pulling shit like this.

"As it is not permitted to sell pornography to children, it should be so for violent video games."

So, violent movies should be OK.

As I said in my comment about the ESRB, The PTA and Gamedad (andrew bub) working together, I'm sort of envious of this and I wish that we had such a person such as gamerdad here in Europe - or even just in Denmark.

Maybe the EU-commission should ask the ESRB for some pointers as to how the PEGI ratings could be more widely known in Europe - also in the European countries that is not part of the European Union.

Of course, pornography should not be sold to children, but Meglena Cuvena is making the same assumption that a certain 'favor of hate-person' here on GP does: that violent video games can be likened to pornography and maybe also that all video games are violent?

Now, if she has said that she wanted children to not get their hand on say 18+ games (as rated by the PEGI) and encouraged the industry as well as the retail stores to card people before they bought such rated games (18+ games), I might be able to understood her position. Or if she did suggest that it were to be illegal to sell 18+ games to minors, then I might also be able to understand it. But what is a violent game?

No doubt, she is thinking that a violent video game must be something like GTA, Manhunt 2, Bioshock and similar games - all which have been rated 18+ by PEGI. Apparently, she does not know that even in RPGs there is violence. I wondered what she would have thought of the very disturbing game *blackstone chroincles - an adventure in terror' in which the -ehm- violence? is more psychological than it is physical.

As I commented in the other thread abot the ESRB, PTA and Gamerdad, the EU (commission) still seems to think that it is ONLY children who play video games. Maybe the BBFC should educate them. The average gamer is now about 35+ (or older). Gaming + videogaming does not go away, it seems. Learn to live with it.

As for the EU having legislative power. It has, but it sort of in a weird way. In order for EU to legislate in this area, all 27 of EU's secretaries (or ministers) of Justice must reach an agreement. And then I think it has to be passed by a majority in the EU-parliament. I could go on about how this works, but itr would probably bore you - suffice to say that EU's secretaries of Justice did decide that this was a matter for the national judicial systems (lawmaking) in the individual EU countries. And I suppose that this might be that outcome of such a debate - if they were to talk about tbis again.

"PEGI has proved to be a good system but it is not known enough."

WHAT?!?!?

You can't be serious...

@Dark Sovereign

Agreed. :P

"You have two years to voluntarily do as we say or we're gonna bash you." I love the fact that Fascism is alive and well in the EU.

"When children go out to play today they enter the world of joysticks. We are not quite sure where they go..." ...so we better legislate it just in case.

OH!OH!I just got a brilliant solution!
It's been around for quite a while,but it just might work.
It's called............BEING A PARENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It sounds so simple,but the government wants you to believe that only more government can solve the problem.What's the games industry gonna do to keep games outa the hands of young games,tell them every time they play GTA a puppy gets eaten by an Al Quadea member?I mean,seriously,kids were able to get their hands on Playboys' back in the 70's,Comics before that.I don't a 10-year old should be playing GTA,but honest to crap,they'll never learn.

[Insert highly-sarcastic and witty comment here stating that parents should pay attention to and regulate their children]

Maybe the European Union and the commission should do something useful.. like cease to exist and stop interfering in the government of sovereign nations.

I despise it, everything it does, and everything it stands for.. over the years hundreds of wars have been fought by European nations to maintain sovereignty, and yet now here so many are, giving it up for petty conveniences like same currencies and ease of travel.

"As it is not permitted to sell pornography to children, it should be so for violent video games."

Not exactly correct, depending on what age range view view as a child

Austria

"Youth-imperiling" materials or those which violate human dignity may not be displayed or sold to persons under 16 years of age. Nudity is not assumed as such material.

Bulgaria

Hardcore pornographic material is "not recommended" for distribution to persons under the age of 18. Softcore material is rarely censored, even by the state TV stations. Magazines and pornographic papers have become increasingly available since the fall of communism in 1989, and local editions of many international magazines are published.

Denmark
Though the age of consent is lower at 15. It is, however, not illegal to possess images or videos of people above 15 if the person filmed or photographed has given consent.

Pornography may not be sold to persons under the age of 15. The TV-channel Kanal København broadcasts hardcore pornography free and uncoded at night.

Finland
It is allowed to sell pornography in every store, but magazines to buyers of 15 years or older and hardcore to buyers of 18 years or older.

Germany
The law defines pornography to be hardcore pornography, thus anything else is not restricted.

Ireland

No laws against pornography (other than child pornography) as such exist; however, there are censorship boards with the power to ban the import, the sale, or the distribution of individual publications and films. At one time the list of banned books ran into the thousands, though in recent years (particularly since the mid 1990's) very few publications or films have been banned.

Netherlands

Child pornography is illegal. Otherwise liberal laws. Magazines sold openly at normal newsstands. Pornographic movies are rated for viewers 16 or over including hardcore. Material involving animals declared illegal in 2006 due to new animal-welfare laws

Norway

After the Supreme Court on 7 December 2005 unanimously acquitted a former magazine editor for publishing unobscured hardcore pornography in 2002, however, it is understood that printed hardcore pornography is no longer illegal, and pornographic magazines and movies were introduced in general stores from 2006. Public TV as well as cable TV seems to stay with the old rules, and is not yet clear if the Supreme Court decision will affect TV. (NB: The depiction of illegal sexual activities, such as those involving children, animals, necrophilia, rape, violence or the use of force, remains illegal.)

Sweden

No age limits at all. Most shops follow a volountary 18 year limit. Illegal for persons below 18 to act in films or pose for photography made in Sweden. Video and stills are illegal if actor is below 18 even if legal in originating country. Material that may involve animals is de facto legal; however, it is subject to animal-welfare laws. BDSM is classified as "illegal depiction of violence," but the law is rarely used to ban any such materia

Greece

Softcore magazines, calendars, and decks of cards are sold openly at roadside kiosks and tourist shops. Extreme or graphic pornography is generally restricted to adults or X-rated. Apart from that, there are no other restrictions to pornography distribution and possession, while the law stating than hardcore pornography is to be supplied only to adults is frequently ignored and rarely enforced.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pornography_laws_by_country#Sweden

From the info that we have here, 20% of countries do not seem to think the same way as the European Union. 18% or nine of the countries are part of the European Union.

Oh yeah, conclusion: it's the responsibility of the regional government to pass laws regarding "adult" content, and the retailers should be held accountable for their actions should they break those laws. The creator(s) of the content are providing a service. If that service is legal in the locale where it is produced, then they have, by definition, met their responsibilities. The legality of that content in other areas is irrelevant: if the creators wish for their creation to be available in a region where local laws prohibit any part of their creation then they can self-censor their creation ( a la GTAIV in Australia) or refuse to release it there. If it is released there against their express wish, the distributor is at fault.

'When children go out to play today they enter the world of joysticks.'

Strange... I haven't had to use a Joystick in a game for over 2 years, I might drag it out and dust it off for the odd blast of Freespace 2, but that's about it.