So the question is ... what are New Zealander and Australian gamers going to do about it?

And I wonder whether they showed Saw, Hostel, etc. etc. ad nauseum at the cinema houses? After all, it's naive to think that "teenagers and young children won’t have access to and be able to [replace text start] watch those movies [replace text stops]".

More uninformed Parent Panic again. For historical instances of this happening, please see ... hmm, every generation since the dawn of time. Only difference here is that the younger generation has no means of fighting back, it seems, and that the people in power no longer have the stones to say: "Video games do not make kids kill".

i Just thought i would let people know i have the Aus version and it still allows you to pick up prostitutes and you can also still sleep with your Girlfriends and the strip bar is still in the game so idk what they censored but it doesn't seem where missing out on much.

And now, the Australian gamers get even MORE pissed.

"So-called 'entertainment?'" What, he thinks GTA is boring? Maybe he should try playing it sometime. (And if he's concerned about the murder-training hypno-simulator minigame, I can lend him my tinfoil hat.)

Oh...it's a guy...still a stupid bitch though.

"It is also completely unrealistic to believe that young people will not be influenced in their attitudes and behaviours by constant exposure to this type of material."

Are they saying that the game is going to make people be killers or am I just misreading that?

Poor NewZeland. They shouldn't have to deal with a castrated GTA, or this Family First dumbshit.

Lots of parrots in New Zealand, it seems.

My, my, my. This is interesting.

Today from New Zealand's Family First:

"It follows on from previous Grand Theft Auto games which included constant graphic violence and sexual situations. Players could re-enact having sex with a prostitute, beating her bloody, taking her money and running her over with a car and shooting at police officers."

From last Wednesday's Parent's Television Council release:

"The Grand Theft Auto games include constant graphic violence and sexual situations. In past versions, players could re-enact having sex with a prostitute, beating her bloody, taking her money and running her over with a car; shooting at police officers..."

Wow. It's almost word for word. Both releases even use the same Grossman quote.

Hmm...

Andrew Eisen

This news has been doing the rounds here in NZ for the past week or so. There have been numerous pre-order cancellations ($50,000 worth at the store I was buying from apparently) and many, myself included, are simply importing the uncensored version from overseas. Unlike Australia the original version has not been banned here so there are no legality issues.

I only heard of Family First's comments this morning on the news, and I intend to contact them voicing my objection to their comments.

"But I wouldn’t want my 15-year-old playing it."

Then don't let them play it, duh. Just because you have a teen that WANTS to play it, isn't an excuse for accepting a censored version.

Anyway, sorry to her that, NZ nationals. Let the wave of imports begin!

@Andrew Eisen:
When I read that, I think it sounded very familiar. I thought I was experiencing Daja vu.

This proves that these guys don't know what they are talking about. They just did a google search to dig up reasons to ban this game.

Double post but rereading Barton's quote makes me realize something. It isn't the swearing or violence that people want...at least generally speaking. He talks about it as if people are buying this game over others for this content. People are buying for the game as an experience...as a whole. They aren't made about the removed content because there is less swearing / violence / whatever....people are mad because it is not the same game as a whole united experience... gah.

And this comes from someone who doesn't even like the series much.

@Tristram
Family First is merely a minor pressure/lobby group with little teeth. I had honestly never heard of them until today. I'd say their view is significantly out of touch with the NZ public in general and our government.

Braaaawwwwk! Video games are bad! Braaawwwwwk!

Heh. Stupid parroting of phrases by jackass scare groups. Doesn't stirring up fear count as terrorism?

First off: GOD FUCKING DAMMNIT!

Secondly:

And I wonder whether they showed Saw, Hostel, etc. etc. ad nauseum at the cinema houses?

Yes, like you wouldn't believe. Never even heard a peep from the "Family First".

The name pretty much sums up everything about the group you need to know: Family; if you disagree with us you clearly hate families and eat babies, and First; we're right, we're right, we're right, so there!

Anytime a news article about anything slightly concerning "Family" pops up they'll be some comment; teen thugs = breakdown in societies moral fibre, teen drinking = breakdown in societies moral fibre etc.

The only reason people hear about them is they give the media good soundbites. They aren't relevant to NZ or the general public.

@Andrew Eisen

Wait, Grossman? You mean Lev Grossman? The Times writer who was nice enough to bash anyone who's ever played Halo or any other video game?

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1657825,00.html

If not, please ignore that...

But yeah, I'm really getting sick of video games being censored while, as Lev puts it in the above article, "more respectable media" see none of these restrictions.

Hey, the Herald also has a much more sensible write up of GTA IV as well:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10506373

Weren't the preorders cancelled a few weeks ago because the retailers confirmed that they're getting the watered down version?

As for me, a mate & I are going to be at the shops when they open tomorrow to get the australian version whilst we await the delivery of the version I ordered from canada a few days ago. Only hoping that it works... Hmm there's a thought, would the different versions of the game show up as different entries? Could I get 2000 gamerpoints for GTA4?

@ Father Time

NZ has an R18 rating but we still get the censored version, grrr.

As for Aussie, I beleive they are currently reviewing their rating system with the intention of including an R18 rating.

I got this news sometime last week from the online retailer I buy from (I live in NZ). Is quite annoying, but as long as it doesn't alter any significant part of the game (like removing all traces of blood, thus removing from the realism), then I'm fine with it.

"Players could re-enact having sex with a prostitute, beating her bloody, taking her money and running her over with a car and shooting at police officers."

I could re-enact that in real life too, but I won't. Having sex with prostitutes (which is LEGAL in New Zealand) is not forced upon the player and only those wanting to do do it. The example I just mentioned (besides the shooting at the police thing) are things people have to choose to do. Your mind has to already be capable of thinking up such acts to actually carry them out. It's not the game's fault if the player already has a desire to run over sex workers.

"It is completely naive to believe that teenagers and young children won’t have access to and be able to play the game."

This is a pathetic arguement. This is the what I think is called "respecting the lowest common denominator" or something, where we should give up our rights to adhere to what more sensitive people want. Why should I sacrifice my right to play GTA4 just because if it's made available some 15 year might get their hands on it? I mean, I don't like the fact that Manhunt was banned, but I do consider it something I would probably be willing to give up the right to own or play to stop children from having the chance to play it, because it looks so brutal, but GTA4 is no manhunt.

"It is also completely unrealistic to believe that young people will not be influenced in their attitudes and behaviours by constant exposure to this type of material."

It's also unrealistic, at least at this point, to consider that a video game, especially GTA4, would have any sort of negative effect on a person that will manifest into some kind of morally-wrong or illegal activity. I played GTA3 when I was 15 and I have never even had the urge to steal a car or kill a hooker. I have never even had a great urge to fire a gun. I have loved Doom since before puberty and my point about firing guns above still stands. Sure, I probably have an unhealthy respect for the shotgun, but that's mroe idolising, rather than desire to go on a killing spree.

"So-called ‘entertainment’ and freedom of expression should never be at the expense of the safety of our community, appropriate emotional and moral development of our children, and promoting acceptable attitudes towards women, violence and law enforcement."

(From Dictionary.com) "Entertainment (noun): something affording pleasure, diversion, or amusement, esp. a performance of some kind." Yeah, I'm pretty sure GTA4 isn't "so-called 'entertainment'" but is, in fact, entertainment. And I agree that there should be limits on freedom of expression and all that, but I do not regard video games, movies or TV to be able applicable to this. Once these ignorant people forget their pseudo-science, thinking that exposure to something makes people more likely to do it, and can prove their points with real science, then perhaps I'll actually take them seriously. It is possible to have respect for women, positive attitudes towards police and not be a violent person and still be able to play video games. I am an example of this. I would hope most gamers were. Perhaps these sorts of people should spend less time fighting this "evil" and more time actually educating children or getting the government to introduce education to schools about morals and ethics.

Only a very small people will ever replicate a video game in real life and those people are very likely to be disturbed people and if not getting inspiration from video games, then from somewhere else. And in New Zealand? We're not America, no offence. I'm pretty sure we have a lot more restrictive gun laws and a lot lower crime rate, although I could be wrong about the latter.

It's almost enough to make you hate all conservatives,eh?

Forgive the double post.


If they're so worried about what their children are doing,would it kill them to get off their asses and LOOK?!They're treating GTA(even though I've stated countless times I don't care much for the game)like you would FOX News:That you don't even need to watch(or in GTA's case,play)it to justify dis paring it.It makes me mad,but probably not as mad as most Aussie and New Zealand gamers.Damn lucky Canadians.

I'm so confused as to what is being prevented by removing one single scene (as far as we know) from an entire experience of equally offensive (to some) material?

If we go by the notion that any excessively violent content will harm the children then what will stop the other hours upon hours from doing its damage?

The only people losing out here are those in the retail business of selling games in our respective countries. Absolutely nobody wins in this situation. At all! The notion that we should "be cool" because Rockstar themselves edited the content without an official intervention is nil as they would not have had to without frivolous watchdog groups and idiocratic regulatory bodies.

Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to go watch somebody say "fuck" and shoot someone in the head on public television right after SVU is done figuring out who the deranged child rapist is - because apparently that's "entertainment" that's suitable...

by the way it is also naive to believe people will do what it shows.
The government always thinks monkey see monkey do. PEOPLE KNOW THAT DOING THAT IS WRONG. But there are some people who cant tell the difference between right and wrong. Even so... 95% vs 5%

@ Jeremy

First possums, now this!

I didn't know that Family Farce (heh heh, see what I did there?) was actually linked to a church, however considering their disdain for social views that don't date back to the 1800's I'm not really suprised.

This is why I'm snapping the game up on release day as early as I can. Conservative groups and misinformation about video games is a dangerous mix.

I'm annoyed that they won't tell us what was cut.

I was thinking about the Australian Family First that is tied to the Australian Liberal Party that lost office last year.

However the New Zealand one might be different

But it should not make a bit of difference what the government thinks if they themselves have not played the game at all.

They could do what they want to keep the game out of the hands of children yet they need to leave the game alone and uncut for me to play since I am over 18.

Those people that talk about how the game is a public safety issue needs to shut up and go take care of way worse public issues rather than try to violate my rights. Those people really do not care about others besides starting trouble for adults that want to play a game that causes no harm.

looks like i won't be buying my copy from NZ either

I wouldn't mind GTA IV getting banned, honestly.

I wonder if this means that Yahtzee will have to go to...

GAMETRADERS ROBINA... for an import copy of GTA4 to play.

@Father Time:

It's true that they could still get their hands on it, but the fine they would have gotten if it had have been intercepted by customs or found out some other way would have been very large.

I agree with your point involving porn, but it is probably much easier for a 12 year old to get a hold of porn than a copy of Manhunt 2. A ban on Manhunt 2 is likely to cut exposure of the title to kids than a ban on pron would.

It's a little hard for me to backup my opinion on "restricting freedom of expression". I guess in a simplistic way, I would say that I would want freedom of expression to exclude "expression purposefully aimed at annoying or upsetting people", but that is probaby a little too restrictive. I recently watch a video of a protest and a small section of the protestors were homosexuals. And this guy comes along, walking around in the group of protestors, with a sign that on one side says a message that is against the view of the protestors and on the other side has an anti-gay message. And he has the right to hide behind the "freedom of expression". I don't particularly care about gay rights, but I hate when people use freedom of expression to antagonise people. I think there are just some situations where people shouldn't be able to hide behind it. I don't mean censorship, as such. Just sometimes there's a time and a place to say and do whatever you want and sometimes there's no good reason for it.

I'm not very good at justifying this, but I think complete freedom of speech and expression just leads to misuse, but I guess it's a little hard to trim the fat from the right without people complaining that your cutting off too much or that there's nothing wrong with the fat at all.

@Salen

It's pretty funny, I think that store has gotten heaps more customers now that he's mentioned them. I walked past there the other day and it was packed...

[...] If you are buying GTA from OS, and you are getting it from NZ, you will be getting the Aussie version it seems GamePolitics.com Blog Archive New Zealand Gets Same Watered-Down GTA IV as Australia If you wish to see whats been removed most of it is probably over on IGN under "Ladies of GTAIV". __________________ Coding in C is like sending a 3 year old to do groceries. You gotta tell them exactly what you want or you'll end up with a cupboard full of pop tarts and pancake mix. [...]

Get the fuck out of my home!
I pre-ordered a copy only to find, that the content has been tamed somewhat.

"Irresponsible to think kids/teens won't have access..."
Like smacking, these types of issues are down to the parents. Obviously we don't want kids playing these, and that is the responsibility of the parent/guardian.

This is just another case of the nanny groups trying to control what goes on inside, and removes us of our free will to decide for ourselves what goes on in OUR home.

In this case it's more the situation than the violence itself.
Simply it's targetted towards adults, much like pornography and alcohol etc.

If I want to play a violent game it's my prerogative. As an adult we are expected to know fact from fiction, right and wrong.
We should be at a stage to make our decisions and suffer the consequences.
If we cant grasp this, than the same applies to movies, music etc.

Don't censor this game in regards to it's effect on children, it's clearly labelled an R18 and should be left alone.

As it is, using games, movie and music as scapegoats is fucking pathetic, it's down to the individual and this is just an easy way to condemn something.

---

On Aussie and NZ accents, I can see how they are alike. Some kiwis get the real nasal sounds that you see in Worlds fast indian and it sounds quite similar to some of the nasal Australian accents.

It all varies in both countries. My (Im a Kiwi) accent is probably a bit of a monotone like Jermaine from Flight of the Concords.

[...] Source: Gamepolitics, Family First Permalink [...]