He didn't lump it in with them. He used them as a reference for the cultural expressions of the generation who see GTA as a cultural milestone.
He certainly didn't decry mindless action movies (something I certainly grew up on) nor did he make any disparaging comments about Japanese Graphic novels or Euro-american post apocalyptic fantasy.

In short I think this is not only a very well informed and well written piece, it's a wholly valid point about the direction of the games industry.
It's typical that in the same fashion that people mindlessly scream out the horrors of videogames without really understanding them, this is stream of comments insulting and arguing about an article they haven't bothered to read properly.

"One of the most interesting things about this game is that it’s the product of a global youth culture whose frame of reference has been shaped by mindless American action films, by post-apocalyptic Euro-American fantasy fiction and Japanese graphic novels…"

1. I like how the man uses the vague term of 'youth,' which could easily apply to young adults that are over 18, which is what GTA is geared toward in the first place...

2. So... he basically hates anything that creates 'nerds,' so to speak. Charming.

"One of the most interesting things about this game is that it’s the product of a global youth culture whose frame of reference has been shaped by mindless American action films, by post-apocalyptic Euro-American fantasy fiction and Japanese graphic novels…"

OK, so the media created for the "youth" by the older generation, Rutten's generation, created the "frame of reference" that led to GTA IV. Clearly this is all the fault of these crazy youths.

It makes me wonder if this particular "media critic" has actually played this particular piece of media before being critical.

ugh.. seriously.. here we go again *sigh*

Just because YOU dont understand something doesnt mean it isnt of value. I actually am finding GTAIV VERY artistic, well put together with a fantastic and emotional narrative.

Its not all about 'ooh lookz i can chop off headses, ohh blood, lets kill people, yay'

TO me its actually on the same kind of artistic level as scarface / goodfellas / godfather.

And as far as ''Where earlier generations of youthful art crossed boundaries… they also affirmed something else, some alternative or countercultural value…'' goes..

who are YOU to judge wether it has some cultural value. You even JUST SAID you are from a different generation and hence different culture to the younger generation. So how can you decide if it has value or not.

I see the game as an excellent commentary on the corruption of wealth / power etc and the fact that no matter how big you are, theres always someone bigger/badder/better just around the corner. About how shallow material wealth actually is in the end. And for me, thats a good lesson.

Anyone else played the game and noticed the excellent social commentary on America especially with regard to the constant satire on the radio stations regarding Terrorism, the threat of terror, intolerance/fear of other religions, and (on the tv) a really funny cartoon mocking Americas invasion of other countries that have nothing to do with them in pursuit of resources and money. (albeit with another halo / alien skit interweaved)

It seems his point is that GTA is bad for having violence, but films are ok?

This is certainly a case of the generation gap at work. He claims that "Grand Theft Auto IV" is a work of genius -- but it's genius in the service of nothing more than sensation and profit."

So I'm dumb for having bough the game? I can't get any enjoyment or entertainment from it because it's just for sensation and profit? If you want anything milked for sensation and profit, then read the National Enquirer, or watch any reality TV show. I bought GTA IV and am enjoying it because of the open ended and complex storyline, the incredible scenery and environment, the freedom to explore and have fun within that environment.

It seems he just can't grasp that people can enjoy video games just as they enjoy movies/novels/etc.

@Twin-Skies

You nerd :D

Just reminding you guys that he has a comments thread for the editorial.


Please - keep it civil.

The young, in turn, elevate their aesthetic rebellion to respectability over time…
Doesn't every generation say that? The problem today is that we have the Internet for any anti-video game activist to use and find everything bad about video games, then we have news stations that forgot that they are distributing news instead of fictional stories.(Fox News)

Why not take Scarface then just show only the scenes that has violence and swearing, and you get what other media is doing to video games today.

Hey : it's not totally bad. First, he recognizes there is a generation gap. Second, if you take the time to read his column entirely, he recognizes aesthetic qualities of GTA 4. Third, he doesn't call for censorship, nor wishes it. And fourth, some of his critics are actually valid, and mixed with compliments. Read carefully the last sentence of his column :

"Censorship will not avail against this kind of compelling cultural shift -- nor should it. "Grand Theft Auto IV" is a work of genius -- but it's genius in the service of nothing more than sensation and profit. With this game, the interactive video industry has turned an aesthetic corner and is now an art form in search of an artist."

You may disagree, but at least, admit he's a "reasonable" critic.

Soldatlouis:

Did he have to lump GTA4 together with other meda forms, though?

Actually, from what I read, at least he has a grasp on what it contains. He didn't make it sound like it was a sex simulator.

I also like the reference to Japanese Graphic Novels. Give it a few more years and we'll even have them saying "Manga". But seriously, those things are taking over the book stores (I feel it's a good thing). They went from a shelf, to a whole book shelf, to an aisle, two aisles, now the have three or more.

His comments aren't based on sheer ignorance concerning the game-he's obviously seen the actual game play, and that's better than most of the critics who are lambasting the game (Leland Yee comes to mind).

I've read his column again (carefully).

I find it interesting how Rutten parallels GTA4's launch with cultural upheavals of the past.

If GTA4 is really going to be that big a mover, I am genuinely worried at the progression of the rest of the gaming industry, from a story-telling standpoint at least.

Did he seriously just attack manga?

Re: TheEdge
No. He's been interpreted as doing so because he referenced "mindless action movies". and sadly too few people are reading the article well enough to realise that it applies only the the action movies, and not to the subsequent listed items.

At no point in this does he attack anything. He plainly isn't a huge fan of GTA but he seems more like someone whose interest in piqued and hopefull for the future than someone who is condemning things.

First off, whoever keeps on citing the text and using the article name as their forum name must be SHOT. NOW.

He makes some good points. But what's wrong with Japanese graphic novels? Maybe it IS the generation gap...

@ ~the1jeffy
I moderately agree with your point, though I personally felt Vice City was just as good as GTA 3, if not as revolutionizing. I thought San Andreas was rubbish and what you say, though.

Anyway, the point I'm getting to is that having played GTA 4 now with skepticism - it is not simply a graphic update. I recommend you play it. Or play it more.

I would call him an Idiot but he writes for the LA Times so it is already stated. His whole argument seems to boil down to "Entertainment today is breeding Nerds, and I hate Nerds." Ten to on this guy has never laid hands on a controller let alone played GTA IV. All he is doing is riding on the bandwagon with the rest of the morons.

"One of the most interesting things about this game is that it’s the product of a global youth culture whose frame of reference has been shaped by mindless American action films, by post-apocalyptic Euro-American fantasy fiction and Japanese graphic novels…"

Yes, because I know that Cardcaptor Sakura drives me to kill hookers.

But, Twin-Skies brings up a good point - that he's not really attacking these things, but rather, acknowledging that these are emerging forms of entertainment. (Though technically, manga's been around a long time - Hokusai, who did ukiyo-e, did manga, too.)

You know, as ignorant and ill informed as his comments and assessments are, it seems like the dialog is moving forward. There are now surfacing some critics of the content beyond the blanket "kill prostitutes" opinions.

minor progress, I think. But something's starting to get through.

not reading comment and slight knee jerking FTL

I think my initial problem with his statement in the GP quoted section was the very plain rundown of progression: kill maim have sex kill maim steal cars.

Its very simplistic, and on a simple level, accurate. But that rundown seems to ignore the set up of this progression. There are a number of non-violent, story driven elements in between, and they are so aften glossed over for arguments sake (I've done it myself)

Wow what a hypocrite

First he praises previous generation of entertainment that he was decries he does the exact same thing he just spoke out against. Social relevence? Please tell me what social relevence Elvis Presley shaking his hips had? Seriously this guy is just another out of touch old fart who doesn't know what he's talking about.

There's out of touch and then there's being like the lonely old lady who will call the cops on you for sneezing while living in the apartment above her. This is the latter. He sounds like Craig Ferguson's John McCain impression.

@Arashi

Manga's been around indeed, but the bulk of North America hasn't really seen just how in-depth its real art can be. Most of the mainstream authors that get ported to your side of the world tend to be pretty heavy on fanservice and action, IMO.

Kishimoto, Oh Great!, Akamatsu to name a few.

Pinworm,

Can you name one gameplay element that is improved? I'm sure the story is good, so let's not look to that.

link mew
http://forums.theeca.com/showthread.php?t=4587

Good lord man! Play GTA! JUST A LITTLE! You will soon realize it's more than mindless violence. It has a strong theme of social commentary and satiricaly portrays city life, and life in general.

@~the1jeffy

oh, that's where the main improvements are! All the previous GTAs got repetative and boring because of lackluster combat system. The new combat system is actually FUN. It's not just "there", like the others, with the sandbox style to make up for it. It's actually good. It's Gears of War good.

With such a good combat system, while keeping the typical sandbox GTA style (with a lot more features), the gameplay is specatacular - something the GTA series has always basically lacked. The euphoria engine really adds a lot to that too.

I assure you, I am no fanboy either. I thought GTA 4 was going to be typical, and weak. I was pleasantly suprised. I really suggest checking it out - there's a reason it's getting 10's from websites that haven't given out 10's in years.

The guy has a beard for christ's sake.

Any manga I've read have better stories than most movies I've seen.

Yes, because James Dean didn't shoot at Policemen....

I wish some of the Critics would actually learn the history of media before quoting it...

Oh no he DIDNT just talk smack about Manga.

How could I live if pictures of effeminite boys holding huge swords and running into busty chicks dissapeared?! WHAT WOULD I DO?

This guy's article really is self-cancelling. He rightly observes that every generation has its broad cultural causes that the older generations pooh-pooh becuase the older generations do not recognize the undercurrents of real nuggets of respectability and social message in them that the young see (and later vidicate as respectable). Then in the next breath he goes on to identify the current broan cultural cause, and blithely and completely irony-freely proclaim from his perspective of the older generation how this current cultural cause clearly breaks the tradition by having in fact no undercurrent of real social message or value and being actually mindless.

I mean its like yes, that is precisely the pattern which even he laid out: of course he cant see the underlying value that the young generation claims to see in it, thats exactly the pattern he laid out as how it always happens. I mean its fine and good to say to the participants at the time (which was later affirmed in retorspect) that the beat generation was about skewering decency witht he aim or replacing it with an affirmative value steeped in buddhism and personal sexual expression, but you can bet your dollars to donuts that the old fogeys of that day were just focusing on what they sasw as the debased and mindless drug culture of say a timothy leary, or the without redeeming value appeals to the pruirient interests of Elvis's gyrating hips even as they were writing how this new youth movement was nothing like thier youth movement of the 20's (centered on lets say ragtime and the foxtrot) because THEIR movement though it was rebellious actually stood for something, unlike these current obnoixous, dirty hippies and their pursuit of sensation and profit.

I mean it doesnt take a rocket scientist to realize that the underpinning social message of GTA is some cocktail of a dose of nihilism and skepticism, with a level of biting satire and fondness for absurdity, and a blithe attitude towards simulated violence (which is directly analogous to blithe attitude towards real sexual acts or real drug use of the 60's counterculture) that is just a natural extension of looking critically at the world today from the perspective of the stereotypical 'young' (and here i mean 18-30ish) person. All it takes is to be one of those people in that demographic to see those, which is exactly the litmus test this critic lays out at the outset, just before skewering the younger generation from the fogey perspective and finding it (unsurprisingly) wanting.

@StealthKnight:

I think he was talking in terms of art. In this case, Jazz wasn't really appreciated as a musical form until decades later,

"...elevate their aesthetic rebellion..."

Going against the artistic norms of their time? Art does seem partly based audacity and breaking the mold after all.

Every generation's has it's rebel, certainly but I think Rutten is miscasting GTA in the larger social milieu of cultural iconography. The GTA criminals aren't the kind of ideological rebels we had in Tyler Durden from "Fight Club" or V from "V for Vendetta." The GTA criminals belong with the previous generation's anti-heroes from a Jack Hill film (one of Tarantino's favorite exploitation directors). If Rutten believes that today's youth are so morally bankrupt that even the vacant morality of a GTA hoodlum will suffice, he really should attend the next Obama rally.

Frankly, I'm tired of older people worrying aloud about the "ocean of filth" (to use Romney's words) that kids are wading in. Instead of metaphorical trash, how about looking in the mirror and reflecting upon all the actual trash the Great Generation and others have left for us to clean up. The sensible adults may disapprove of the new generation's entertainment tastes but the new generation should disapprove of the national debt, environmental degradation, and fractured global community that the morally-directed elders have left them with.

I get the impression that the gentleman is simply not aware of the real "counter culture" of games. You could no more judge games based on GTA than judge movies of the time period based on a big budget Hollywood blockbuster.
If I was to judge all movies based on the latest big name titles out of Hollywood (or Bollywood or whatever the big name production center) than I would be forced to view all movies as "eschewing decency for obnoxious, intelligent violence". But those aren't the only movies in existence.
The game I am playing now contains story that weaves societal apathy, interpersonal relationships and teenage suicide into a form of magical realism that separates the player just enough to allow you to view the subject from a different perspective. But this game is NOT a big budget title, it will never make the top ten sellers list (especially since it was a limited run title). It is the equivalent of an imported film viewed in a handful of art theaters.
More critics need to take as much time seeking out "art games" as they do "art house films". Maybe then they will realize that art and civilization are not collapsing, they are simply changing.

@Smarty Pants

It's either that or "The World Ends with You" on the DS.