@ Cortex

Because they're self-absorbed and/or brainwashed in their 'My way or the highway, we're the only good people on earth, you're all going to hell no matter how good you are unless you join us, you godless heathens' logic.

I routinely get visits what what's-his-names' witnesses every other month or so. (can't remember the name for the life of me) Those pompous windbags really piss me off.

”faith-based, family-friendly entertainment with valuable spiritual and moral messages.”

Am I the only one seeing a pattern here?

OMG, The Religious Right!

"faith based"

The speculation ends here. Christians view anything not geared for kids as porn. Seems they want to pretend to be children all their lives...

"If adults want to do it, that’s their choice. But that’s not where the problem is… Personally, I think it’s sick and twisted… They should be putting this stuff behind the counter so that the adults that want it can come in and ask for it, like they would an adult magazine…"

I thought retailers ask for a valid ID if they think you're underage.

@Pinworm

You're not the only, although what set off my alarms is the name for his current company - "Grand Design Productions."

John Douglas doesn't seem to see that a lot of titles in circulation today are non-violent fares geared for kids. Mario Kart Wii is one example.


It looks to me that's he's just following the videogames=violence bandwagon for contoversy and attention's, more than he his showing genuine concern for the industry.

Technically, the games ARE kept behind the counter, E-M.
I can understand being appalled at the crime in Liberty City, but not the entire industry. Right now, GTA's topping the charts, but it's always the non-violent games that make history: Mario, Myst, Sims, etc. Check out the new Guiness Gaming records book for the best-sellers of all time.

What''s more interesting about this article isn't John Douglas' opinion on violence in games and the pornographic nature of GTA IV. What struck me was the articles twisting of what the other interviewee said.

"Yeah, I'm 24-years-old. I know what it is. You can't get in trouble in a game," said Perez.
Perez agreed that children shouldn't be playing violent games.
But he plays on because it's not a crime to play "Grand Theft Auto IV."

I'm sorry but if that isn't a loaded statement I'm not sure what is. You can all but hear the mock sympathy inherent to the way that sentence sounds. Almost as if it's describing a poor child who doesn't know any better.
Bad journalism at its worst.

Have you noticed that the "P" word has appear more often these days? Unfortunately, this word could be the perfect way to force gamers to a 1984 society.

"The company’s website describes it as in the business of creating ”faith-based, family-friendly entertainment with valuable spiritual and moral messages.”"

such as how to sacrifice your goat properly, or cast fear into people by damning them to hell just because they don't believe the way you do, or burning them at the stake because their religion may actually help people!

heh, if GTA games are porno when played by these people, than the bible is the thickest issue of Playboy ever to exist out there in my eyes.
why? just cause it contains more violence than most other mediums available, and its violence is preached daily around the world.
if read in one way it can be good, but interpret it another and its bad.

its all in how you want to look at it, just as with anything, theres no "this or that" about it.

maybe i should start pushing anti-religion propaganda all over... its easier to find flaw in religion that preaches "holier than thou art attitude", despite in the same context its supposed to be a "live and let live", than it is to find a flaw in a vid game thats less violent or graphic in nature than an action flick or on basic cable late night.

i won't and i wouldn't mind you, i do have my beliefs, but these crackpots make me wonder what version of the bible they got... as i don't seriously think the thing once mentions digital or false representations of people.

Isn't this guy the "industry whistleblower" Jack Thompson bragged about a while back? He is only a man with a different opinion, he is entitled to disgree but he won't be making that choice for the rest of us.

nevermind, i misread, he's been in the industry 20 years, not 20 years old. sorry.

He may be a 20-year veteran, but he doesn't show up anywhere on MobyGames.com's database of video game figures.

@BlackIce

They'll run out of hot air eventually, once they realize that their arguements are hollow. (And we'll do something about that when you do something about your abominably unsafe streets :p )

“If adults want to do it, that’s their choice. But that’s not where the problem is… Personally, I think it’s sick and twisted… They should be putting this stuff behind the counter so that the adults that want it can come in and ask for it, like they would an adult magazine…”

Well sir, then tell me why Cigarettes are displayed openly? I'm very certain that smoking kills more people than GTA does. How about alcohol? I'm very certain that kills more people than GTA does. As per porn, in Canada, we don't keep it behind the counter. Porn is stored on the top shelf of the magazine rack out of reach of children.

@Twin-Skies
"I thought retailers ask for a valid ID if they think you’re underage."

See, this is where I feel there needs to be a choke point. Retailers should receive a backhand or a fine for selling ANYTHING that is labelled age x and up to anyone that is not age x and up. GTAIV is not meant for children. Period. Not just video games, but any thing that is age restricted.

I know that many people state it won't harm them etc, etc however there IS a reason for the rating and to say that children should play it with their parent's permission is irresponsible and hypocritical. I don't care how you parent your children, if you want them to allow them to play this game, it's your choice. If you do this however and ever mention the ERSB in a negative way and to a lesser extent in a positive way you're a hypocrite.

There is a solid fact that remains however. No matter how good a parent the person is, a determined enough teen can always find a way to obtain what they want, be it through friends, irresponsible retailers [you exist, just yesterday I watched a store clerk accept a High School Student Card (ages 13-17) as valid ID when I got my copy] or wherever they will get what they want. Most people drink before they come of age and don't become drunks. Everyone [you're lying if you say you didn't] looks at porn before they're of age. Therefore people who liken video games to porn and use that as a reason to ban them should take a reality check. Please, learn to check your firewall logger or your browser of choice's cache. I guarentee that your child 13+ is already looking at much more vivid and graphic porn than GTAIV's cursing and wriggling Victoria Secret commercials.

What sheltered lives people live.

Blimin Hippies

Even Ned Flanders' kids need some type of video game to play.

Oh, hey... I went to Riverview Baptist Church back in the 80's.

They bribed kids to come to church with candy, they said my mom was going to Hell because she listened to the Rock & Roll radio station, and I once saw the pastor put a gun to a girl's head to "play a trick on Satan." I also felt really uncomfortable being baptized in a swimming pool by some creepy old guy. I stopped going to that church because I was afraid of getting "burned up" for listening to Journey and The Police when my mom was driving me to school.

Does that make me an expert on ”faith-based, family-friendly entertainment with valuable spiritual and moral messages?” I think it does, and since I'm an expert, I'd like to describe John Douglas as a bigot, a hatemonger, a racist, a hypocrite, and a liar.

damn he must be old, how many year has it been since somebody has had to ask for porn hidden behind the counter. ther is internet these days. Well I guess I'm getting some of my games the same way some people get their porn. Over the internet.

This guy? Yeah, this guy fails. Hey, tomorrow everyone will see me in the news since I work for a major corporation that is allowing GTA on it's console. My opinion matters too!

I think a Solomon short quote could apply here: "Sour grapes usually make sour whine." ;)

@ Gameclucks

Can't say I blame you for how you feel. I was emotionally and mentally manipulated by the Born-Agains in much the same way; trying to guilt-trip me in convincing me that what I liked was "wrong" and that my friends and family were going to burn because they weren't "saved." Then I woke up one day and I realized that I wasn't a bad person for what I liked and for being who I was. As long as I was good and treated others with kindess and respect, that was enough. But to this day I still carry a grudge against those types.

One of my best friends is a Christian, and I was both surprised and glad to hear her say she believed that way of forcing religion on people was wrong. She plays violent games, listens to Metal and likes Horror movies. My talks with her, as well as others on here, have shown there are far more open-minded and tolerant Christians out there than there are the fire and brimstone types like you and I encountered.

Come back when Warren Spector, Sid Meier or Richard Garriot gets interviewed...

Applying the label "veteran" to this guy is misleading at best.

To be labeled a veteran it really does help to have something to show. Unless I've missed something, every religious/moral/faith based "game" has been awful.

”faith-based, family-friendly entertainment with valuable spiritual and moral messages.”

This alone should discredit him instantly. This guy has no credibility. He is simply another bible thumping moron trying to shove his own beliefs on others.

@Black Manta

...she believed that way of forcing religion on people was wrong.

Hey, same here. Everyone has their own personal beliefs. I shape mine based on my experiences. Believe me, these "Born-Agains" you speak of, they would roast me on an open fire for what I have experienced.

@EZK

I'm with you on this. Someone bashes our favorite pasttime and everyone on here is up in arms in defense of it. The moment it becomes an issue of faith? Oh boy don't the tables turn and these "defends of the hobby" become attackers of my faith.

But its alright though, EZK, our faith is meaningless and archaic to them in much the same way that video games are violent and harmful to Jack Thompson.

Oh wait... I sense some hypocrisy amongst the masses. I guess we Christians are all a bunch of bigots huh?

Why do all of these over zealous religious types attack us? They can be likened to fanatics, save the fact that they will not blow them selves up, physically at least. Maybe socially, they have a habit of destroying their social lives over stupid things. I am a strong Christian myself, but these people have to realize that what their doing is against our values as well, and against the constitution of this country. The NIV bible says an individual is not supposed to force their views on others, although many 'Christians' do. The constitution says there cannot be a national religion (there is no such thing as separation of church and state, if those idiots would read the damn thing, they would understand, it just says there can be no national religion). By making laws saying anything is illegal because it is morally wrong would be imposing a national religion. These people act high and mighty, but they are really lower than us all. Just ignore them and they will fade into obscurity.

Mr. Douglas is free to make whatever kind of games he wants and hold and express whatever opinions he wants. There is room for faith-based family oriented games in the market.

Just seems kind of opportunist to promote his company and products by being unnecessarily controversial. As a 32 year veteran of the game industry who also got tired of working on unnecessarily dark and/or offensive games at a previous employer, I'm curious what Mr. Douglas's actual experience may be. Why not actually use that to promote himself and his company rather than go hyperbolically negative on another product?

Forgot to mention.

Unless I see some evidence of his past game industry work to show his veterancy, he is no vet in my eyes.

@ TheTrueMrJack
My good sir, I take offence at that. Granted, Left Behind: Eternal Forces is the only good one I can think of.

Also;
'20-year video game industry veteran'
No.

@CenturionRyan

I might have to give that a whirl. Beleive me, I've played a lot of crappy bible games. I'm ready for a good one.

I call complete bullshit on this "20 year veteran" thing.

[citation needed] imho.

Sure its the violence bro? and not the casual focus to not bug test to not polish mechanics to not finish a goddamn project?

@Sukasa

My god if ever such a game made it to America I would laugh my ass off at all its controversy. XD

@king of Fiji

Lol, I was curious...there is actually a free demo on their website and you can buy it in america...just not at any retail store. Though you are right, if it did go retail the Smackywacks (JT-ites) of the US will crap their pants.

Basically, they decided to hunt down a video game company that makes bible based games and get there take on GTAIV.

This isn't news, it was a manufactured story. They knew what they wanted to hear and they knew who would say it, so they hunted him down and promised free advertising.

I am 38 years old. Yesterday, when I bought my copy at a Gamestop, I DID have to ask for it at the counter and I DID have to show my ID. (They were carding EVERYONE.)

"The company’s website describes it as in the business of creating ”faith-based, family-friendly entertainment with valuable spiritual and moral messages.”"

yea, this guy ain't a veteran. he's probably not even a gamer.

this is like that one company that made all those bible games

I seriously doubt he's a veteran.

Moby games lists people who have been acredited with working on a game, even if the credit was only as a game tester. They get their information from the game boxes themselves. Hell, they even listed me for my time as a game tester.

Yet John Douglas does not appear in the Moby database. Not only does this imply he is a liar, he is breaking the 9th commandment "thou shall not bear false witness".

From the article:

But Douglas agreed that it is protected by the First Amendment. He just thinks mature games like "Grand Theft Auto" should be treated like pornography.

In other words, "Yeah, sure, it's protected by the First Amendment. I don't see why that should stop us from pretending it isn't, though!"

@ Zerodash

“I (and others who dare to be critical of religion) get flack for our views on Christian zealotry. However, I’m not going around trying to get things regulated or censored because I find them offensive. That is the key difference from hypocrisy.”

You “dare to be critical” of religion? If your idea of daring is posting generalizing and inflammatory remarks against any “faith oriented” group simply because you don’t agree with them they consider yourself a success.

Again, I find that you go shooting your mouth off without thinking about how blatantly offensive you’re being toward a much larger (and often times more rational) population that is ready and willing to defend itself.

If you would actually try and have meaningful debate with people of these faiths you seem to hate so much maybe, just maybe, you would learn something.

Almost every comment you post here leads me to believe that you care nothing for intelligent debate and would rather run around with your hands over your ears screaming “FAITH IS BAD”

I respect your right to disagree with me on any issue, but when you start flinging mud around for the sake of flinging mud around you can bet you’re ass that Christians and the like are going to start defending themselves against your blatantly untrue remarks.

Sorry to be off topic...

Don't presume that I'm NOT trying to fix things from the inside. Again it's your generalizing that I take issue with. Not the fact that you have an issue with it in the first place.

Again, you presume more than you know. Think before you speak.

What the hell do games have too do with morality? Entertainment is meant to entertain, not to teach all the little kids about good and bad. That's what the *PARENTS* are supposed to do. As for arguing with this man, there's no point. You can't argue with a dude who thinks he's doing God's work. I will say however, that Christians gotta live in the same damn world everyone else does. Making everything kid friendly does no good for anyone.

Of all the people bashing games, why is it always the Christian extremists or moral types? I know not all christians are like that, but damn, it's getting really annoying!

Sooo, how long before you know who decides to laud this guy as his personal "industry insider with proof he is right"

@Wag

Please, try to calm down.

Douglas’s past involvement with the video game industry is unknown. He is currently president of Grand Design Productions.
Wait, isn't that the same one Jack a while back claimed to be a shocking confession of the gaming industries practices?

Did we ever dig up anything on just WHAT GAMES they were involved in in the past?

As for the "GTA 4 = Porn" bit, while I don't think kids should have games like it, I say if you are going to do that you need to do the same for other forms of media. Again with the porn bit and "we are moral," not surprised groups like him have to keep saying that just to easily dismiss it, get free publicity, and get the attention their products would NEVER receive without GTA.

I think its safe to say we shouldn't worry about this guy's opinion.Look at the projects his company is working on and tell me I'm wrong

@Wag

I wasn't trying to phish. sorry if I offended.

'Burned Out' = 'Changed from a Hobby to an Industry'

Sorry son, we write for other people now, I'm not always happy about it, but I'm ot going to get up on a pedestal about it either.

To be honest, this is nothing more than trying to use GTA's popularity and controversy to try and buy a little free advertising for his own company. 'Look at us, we don't make nasty games!'.

It's not about his opinion, it's about lining his own pockets with more money.

Wow im actually playing a pornography game.

I've been playing video games for years over ten, maybe as much as 15 years, occasionally writing reviews (one of which won me a Best Buy gift certificate). Does that make me a "vet?"

@DavCube

Out of the portion of the population that is made up of evangelists, I despise televangelists most of all. I accept that they're doing what they feel is the best way to spread the Good Word, but on TELEVISION? I'd rather watch "300" or even it's parody version, "Meet the Spartans," on a Sunday morning than some elderly person preaching either live or recorded.

I personally sympathize with some of those people that agree with me that forcefully indoctrinating someone in even the most brutal ways is wrong, and have gone to the point of embracing atheism as a result.

I honestly believe that if you go out and spread the Good Word to some people, don't threaten them with things like eternal damnation. That's not for you to decide. If they reject the message, I say "Oh well, I tried" and if that leads to their damnation, so be it. Can't break a stubborn heart, and you might fall into sin trying to do so.

If mr. Douglas had seen the Ars Technica video I believe that he wouldn't have said that GTA IV is porn. There's no showing of (pixelated) boobs, nor any showing of full frontal nudity nor is the gameplay in GTA IV hinging on that you need to have sex with prostitutes in order for you to go through the game - at least that's how I understand it.

And the game is rated Mature for sexual themes and Strong, sexual content. Now, whatever could this I mean? Hmm... I wonder...

Okay! Alright! Lets deem GTAIV as pornography!

Now, this violent piece of media is strictly viewable only by adults.

Awesome! Now, every other movie and video game which has any form of violence on par with GTA -- and there are a lot -- are now vulnerable to being classified as "porno".

Wicked!


To go on a small tangent, what gets my goat is that the act which creates life, sex, is considered more harmful to the human psyche than violence.