Miami-Dade Transit Officials Explain GTA IV Ad Ban Decision (sort of...)

Miami-Dade Transit Officials Explain GTA IV Ad Ban Decision (sort of...)

May 6, 2008
It took a few days, but GamePolitics has tracked down some background on the process which led Miami-Dade Transit (MDT) officials to pull ads for Grand Theft Auto IV.

As we reported late last month, the South Florida transit agency yanked GTA IV ads from bus shelters following pressure by anti-game attorney Jack Thompson.

While following up on this story GP communicated with MDT Deputy Director Hugh Chen and Marketing Director Michael DeCossio. It was media relations official Manuel Palmiero, however, who ultimately supplied the information below. What follows are GP's question, MDT's verbatim answers and a few bits of commentary:

GP: The GTA IV ads themselves are inoffensive. Is Miami-Dade Transit making a value judgment as to the underlying product? If so, this judgment is based on…?

MDT: The Miami-Dade County Commission has adopted three resolutions in the last five years dealing with violent video games -- R-1447-03, R-248-04 and R-573-06. You may look up all three at www.miamidade.gov/govaction/searchleg.asp?Action=searchleg.

The first resolution specifically condemned the “Grand Theft Auto: Vice City” video game for its “hate-filled messages" and for appearing “to encourage or condone violence against ethnic minorities” and called on retailers to remove the game from their shelves. The other two condemned violent video games in general and urged retailers not to make such games available to minors. 

Miami-Dade Transit is a department of Miami-Dade County and as such follows the policies set by the Miami-Dade County Commission and Mayor.

(GP comment: This seems a rather bureaucratic justification. None of the three resolutions address public transit. Nor do they direct county agencies to take a hands-off posture with regard to video games. Nor does MDT answer the question as to whether they made a value judgment concerning GTA IV, although it seems obvious that they did.)

GP: Which official made the final decision to remove the ads?
 
MDT: After receiving and evaluating the request for removal of the ads, MDT staff made the recommendation to remove them.  [Ad company] Cemusa was instructed to remove the ads last Friday, April 25.

(GP: we received this info from MDT on Friday, May 2nd)
 
GP: Is MDT familiar with Change the Climate vs MBTA, in which the US First Circuit Court ruled that a quasi-governmental transit agency could not restrict ads based on viewpoint?
 
MDT: Miami-Dade Transit is a department of Miami-Dade County and as such is a unit of County government, not a quasi-governmental transit agency.

(GP comment: This answer is puzzling. The First Circuit Court ruled that it is unconstitutional for a quasi-governmental agency to restrict free speech. Since MDT is organized as a full-fledged unit of government, it has at least as much - and probably more - of an obligation not to restrict free speech. Nor does the answer acknowledge the Change the Climate case.)

GP: Is MDT aware of [complainant] Mr. [Jack] Thompson’s longstanding contentious history with the publisher of this game [Take Two Interactive], including his involvement on the plaintiff side in a pair of wrongful death lawsuits seeking $1.2 billion?
 
MDT: We were not aware of this information but it is not relevant to the matter at hand and would not have affected our decision to remove the ads.
 
GP: Other than Thompson’s, were any other complaints received about the ads?
 
MDT: We are not aware of any others to date.

GP:  Would you characterize MDT as a unit of government, as opposed to quasi-governmental? (I note the .gov website address)
 
MDT: As stated above, MDT is a department of Miami-Dade County government and therefore is a unit of government, not a quasi-governmental agency.

GP: What other types of ads are restricted? Alcohol? R-rated movies? How about a cable show along the lines of The Sopranos or Sex in the City? 

MDT: MDT's contract with CEMUSA lists several types of ads that are restricted, including:

-Advertising that contains traffic-related symbols or words like "Stop," Drive In" or "Danger" that are designed to distract vehicular traffic

-Ads containing immoral, lascivious or obscene material as well as ads promoting businesses engaged in any activity that requires that exclusion of minors

-Ads for alcoholic beverages
 
In addition, the contract states that MDT may "at its sole, absolute discretion" disallow any questionable ads, such as those that may violate community standards as we understand them based on our knowledge of the community and the feedback generated by certain types of ads in the past.

(GP comment: Now that Take Two has sued the Chicago Transit Authority over that agency's removal of GTA IV ads, a similar suit against MDT seems highly likely...)

Comments

The MDT sounds like a bunch of idiots and know-nothings to me...
It is not without reason that Dade County is often refered to as a "banana republic."
Wow... Way to not answer a question there MDT. Guilty much?

Take Two definitely has an even STRONGER case against MDT than they do with CTA.

Oh, and laws can be written but they aren't truely "legal" until proven. If Take Two takes MDT to court then those laws will be tested and destroyed most likely. That first one, R-1447-03, doesn't even apply because it SPECIFICALLY targets GTA:SA. This advertisement was for a different game, so that one can't apply at all. The other two are reaching and that's one hell of a stretch.

JT succeeded at getting the ads pulled, but he's also succeeded at getting MDT slapped with a $300k lawsuit if CTA is any indication. Oh, and I don't think Take Two will wait to see the outcome of the Chicago case. As Dennis has uncovered MDT is a different type of entity and therefore the cases are quite different.

It's ok though... I'm SURE JT will be more than willing to donate his time to the county to fight this lawsuit in court for them... Oh wait. You need a law license and the ability to file motions. OH SNAP!!! Nevermind... Guess they'll have to get someone from the county to do it instead ;)
[...] wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptIt took a few days, but GamePolitics has tracked down some background on the process which led Miami-Dade Transit officials to pull ads for Grand Theft Auto IV. As we reported late last month, the South Florida transit agency yanked GTA IV ads from bus shelters following pressure by anti-game attorney Jack Thompson. In tracking down this story GP communicated with Deputy Director Hugh Chen and Marketing Director Michael DeCossio. It was media relation official Manuel Palmiero, however, who ultimately supplied the information below. What follows are GP’s question, MDT’s verbatim answers and a few bits of commentary: GP: The GTA IV ads themselves are inoffensive. Is Miami-Dade Transit making a value judgment as to the underlying product? If so, this judgment is based on…? MDT: The Miami-Dade County Commission has adopted three resolutions in the last five years dealing with violent video games — R-1447-03, R-248-04 and R-573-06. You may look up all three at www.miamidade.gov/govaction/searchleg.asp?Action=searchleg. The first resolution specifically condemned the “Grand Theft Auto: […] [...]
GP: Other than Thompson’s, were any other complaints received about the ads?

MDT: We are not aware of any others to date.


No surprise here... And I do say such a history it is relevant, guess who is getting free harassment of Take Two at MDT's expense? Yeah, there is no reason that they would want to know that such individual also has a legal agreement with said company over that individual's harassing legal barratry.... Too bad that person will not cover the costs or defend the MDT.

Seriously, and they are doing this only because of his complaint? I don't think there was just a "complaint" made....
They're gonna get sued as well. Just wait.
Knowing how JT handles things, he must have harassed the MDT to the point of, you know... "fax breaking" or something. Which led them to this.

In any case, T2 should definatly sew them as they did for the CTA.

Not a fan of GTA myself, but some of my friends are. And I do like the art direction of the ads themselves, comic book-ish and all...
Such a suit here is highly unlikely, given the \"absolute discretion\" the System has to pull ads for any reason. Nice try, Dennis.

GP: Jack, as an attorney, you should know that the MDT's unilateral assertion of "absolute discretion" can't trump the U.S. Constitution.

Oh wait, I forgot... the attorney part. My bad.
@ Anon

actually, have JT defend them in court is probably the LAST thing the MDA would want (or at least, they should)...after all, look at his impeccable record..
"The first resolution specifically condemned the “Grand Theft Auto: Vice City” video game for its “hate-filled messages” and for appearing “to encourage or condone violence against ethnic minorities” and called on retailers to remove the game from their shelves. The other two condemned violent video games in general and urged retailers not to make such games available to minors. "

"Ads containing immoral, lascivious or obscene material as well as ads promoting businesses engaged in any activity that requires that exclusion of minors"

Interesting. I would have asked if they allowed ads for religious organizations that promoted bigotry and hate against individuals based on race, gender, sexuality, or any other grouping. Such as John Bruce's own church, which promotes bigotry and hate against homosexuals, encourages children to bigoted and filled with hate, and sends them to school with know comprehension that there is a "limitation" of bigotry to be recognized. Thereby leading those children to verbally, mentally, physically, even sexually abuse other students who they deem to be "inferior" or "immoral" because of their differences, even segregating out individuals for reasons other than sexuality.

I wonder if the Transit organization thinks such acts are "moral" and appropriate actions against members of the community.

Let's face it, it's easy for them to get all "morally superior" over media they want NO ONE to have access to. But, when it's something THEY approve of, how quick will they be to put it ahead of children?

Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
[...] wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptIt took a few days, but GamePolitics has tracked down some background on the process which led Miami-Dade Transit officials to pull ads for Grand Theft Auto IV. As we reported late last month, the South Florida transit agency yanked GTA IV ads from bus shelters following pressure by anti-game attorney Jack Thompson. In tracking down this story GP communicated with Deputy Director Hugh Chen and Marketing Director Michael DeCossio. It was media relation official Manuel Palmiero, however, who ultimately supplied the information below. What follows are GP’s question, MDT’s verbatim answers and a few bits of commentary: GP: The GTA IV ads themselves are inoffensive. Is Miami-Dade Transit making a value judgment as to the underlying product? If so, this judgment is based on…? MDT: The Miami-Dade County Commission has adopted three resolutions in the last five years dealing with violent video games — R-1447-03, R-248-04 and R-573-06. You may look up all three at www.miamidade.gov/govaction/searchleg.asp?Action=searchleg. The first resolution specifically condemned the “Grand Theft Auto: […] [...]
From R-1447-03:
"...this video allows players to rack up points by killing characters that appear to be Haitian, Cuban, and Colombian, thereby spreading a message of hate that is threatening and damaging to the diversity that makes Miami-Dade County a welcoming place to live and raise families and this disturbing video has become a best-seller and recently received the award for “Best Videogame of 2002” and is therefore poised to spread its message of violence against ethnic minorities to a larger and larger audience of impressionable children and young adults"

This is such nonsense. I used to work as a games tester for Microsoft and I remember when this fuss all kicked up. There was ONE SIDE MISSION (and it was entirely optional - it was a rampage mission) where the text "Kill all the Haitians" displayed in your objectives menu. It was clearly meant to mean "Kill all the Haitian Gangsters", but people like JT pounced on the badly written text and called it an affront to minority groups - blowing the whole thing WAAAYY out of proportion.

Anyway, they recalled every copy of the game from stores and replaced it with a version that had the single little side mission removed. Since they fixed the issue, why is it now suddenly relevant for GTA IV? Which is a different game... I'm certain R* learned a lesson from that one and have no doubt been very careful about how they phrase things in the new game, so this should be completely irrelevant??

Right??
@nightwng2000 - how do you know JT's church promotes bigotry and hatred toward homosexuals?

Be careful - you'll turn into JT yourself if you just assume things without proof.

As Nietzsche said: "Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one."
SteveUK,
He's admitted to being an "elder of his church".

His prior comments and actions regarding homosexuality show him to be a bigot against homosexuals.

If his church did not support his clearly active homophobic stances, he would not be a continuing member of his church.

This is more than just "guilt by association".
It is "guilt by acceptance".

Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
@nightwng2000: He's also 'admitted' to being an expert on video game violence and we can both agree that he is, most definitely, not.

Two other things - do the other elders in his church know about his actions, or have they officially approved of them in any public statements? If you can't prove it, you can't assume it, dude.

Lastly - what were the comments? Bear in mind that there are people who disapprove of homosexuality and see it as abnormal BUT don't discriminate against gay people. This is NOT homophobia or hate crime. It's opinion.
@Jack Thompson, Attorney (for how much longer?)

Don't talk out of your crack, Jack. I figured the Bar Trial would've taught you that.

@GP

Good work sticking it to the "man" (Hey, anything's possible)

T.O.S.: RAGGLE FRAGGLE!!! *shoots up his and Shadow's house*

Shadow: *sigh* Moron.

T.O.S. WHAT YOU CALL ME, SPACE PIRATE SCUM!?!?!?

Shadow: The hell? How did playing Metroid Prime do this to you?

*some guy in a JT mask comes in*

JT Impersonator: Video games like Pong and Wii Sports are murder simulators!

T.O.S.: THOMPSON!!! *pulls out a gat and blows JTI away with a rat-a-tat-tat*

Shadow: ... *a sweatdrop goes down his face, like in anime shows* ...
SteveUK,
Oh, let's see.
There was the old popular comment regarding Janet Reno. Well documented, including on Wikipedia.
There was the FTC letter regarding the game Bully where he claimed the game contained "gay sex" because the main character kissed a boy.
There's the long standing feud between himself and Norm Kent, a Florida attorney and Gay Rights advocate.
There was the debate about Gay Marriage he took part in. (My luck with links over the last few days has been crappy. Keep getting stuck in the spam filters. It was reported at blogs dot miaminewtimes dot com under Riptide on Sept 19, 2007.) Where he attibuted the decrease of marriages and children being born in some European countries to legalized gay marriage.

There are a great many others (Google "Jack Thompson" with "Gay Rights" at the least.)

And do you really, truly, believe that members of his church are completely in the dark about his clearly outspoken stances? We're not talking about someone who every once and awhile trolls online forums. We're talking about someone who uses his religion as a foundation for his stances, appears on numerous TV news shows, files court documents, appears in various newspapers, and is constantly writing letters to everyone and their illegitimate cousin. He claims to be very involved in his church, even hosting parties with them (I don't know if you were around a couple of years ago where there was some legal thing or other he was involved in on... Easter? or some other holiday or maybe even some other get together where he claimed he was having a party with a bunch of church friends and was running in and out to the computer to post. As I recall, this was on the LiveJournal GamePolitics site. Maybe someone else remembers much more clearly which event it was.

But those folks in the church not know what he's up to? Moreover, him keep his mouth shut to them? Are you kidding or what?

Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
Mr. Thompson, explain the T2 suit against the CTA then. What's that? Fresh out of ideas? Typical.
'We're not government, we're government.'..... what the hell are they trying to say? Yeah... they're screwed.
@DavCube

"I lost my train of thought." -Jack Thompson

That is typical of JT.

T.O.S.: ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!!!

Shadow: GET IN LINE!!!

*Shadow fires off the gatling gun he took from T.O.S., who runs away screaming*
SteveUK,
Oh, and if I REALLY wanted to be like John Bruce, I'd:
(1) Demand legislation to "protect the children" from the harmful effects of bigotry and hate being taught by religious organizations (of course, like John Bruce, ignoring the fact that not all religions believe what he does).

(2) Demand that all religious text be deemed "AO" material for inappropriate content for minors as well as violating community standards and being a public nuisance (of course, like John Bruce, ignorning that not all religious text do it or are interpreted ("modded") in such a way).

(3) Demand that children may not attend any organized religious event, including regularly scheduled services as they may be "mentally molested" by the bigotry and hate espoused at those services (of course, ignorning, like John Bruce does, that not ALL religions do that).

(4) Demand that all religious buildings and structures be moved to a distance of no less that 1 mile from schools or other locations where children congregate (again, ignoring the facts about individual religions and their beliefs).

(5) Blaming a variety of criminal acts on various religious groups to justify my demands. Hey, everybody knows the Oxnard school shooting of a homosexual student was caused or incited by religious Terrorist Trained Tots. And that Nebraska church shooting of a claimed "Anti-Christian" was actually caused by religious abuse of the shooter while he was a kid. Verbal, mental, and physical abuse based on a religious foundation. I could come up with thousands of justifications to blame religion as a whole for various criminal acts.

If I were truly like John Bruce.

Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
This isn't an issue of 1st amendment rights so much as message discrimination. While the industry has the right to advertise their games, they do not have the right to advertise anywhere they want. If it was privately owned property (say, someone's yard) and the property's owner didn't want the ads there, there's nothing T2 can do about it.
But, what I gather is that transit agencies (being at least a quasi-government entity, and apparently a full agency in some cases) like money - the more ad dollars they bring in, the fewer they need from the state. As such they are required to take any advertisement that isn't offensive in itself. So I'm not sure if this would succeed or fail, but if I were a resident of here I'd be irritated because the transit authority is driving my taxes up because they'd rather jump on a bandwagon than take perfectly good and inoffensive money.

GP: Benji - read the Change the Climate case. It absolutely is a constitutional issue.
Benji,
I think it became First Amendment Rights violations when the authority didn't say "no" from the beginning. Instead, they allowed it, took one complaint from an Anti-First-Amendment-Rights citizen, and pulled the ads.

At that point, it should be a First Amendment Rights issue. After all, the company didn't have a problem with the ads to begin with. So it did not, in fact, violate the contract in the first place to have the ads.

The company has the Right to decide what to allow or not allow. But it wasn't, in fact, THEIR decision. It was the demands of an Anti-First-Amentment-Rights citizen that made the decision for them.

Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
But Victoria secrets is ok, I'm sure.
@nightwng2000
Blaming a variety of criminal acts on various religious groups to justify my demands.

Yeh, most violent acts through-out history have been over religion... many, many suicide bombings, murders, torture, etc. And that is fact, not even an opinion!

Religion has a lot more to answer for than games do IMO...
@DeusPayne,

What they said is "We're not partially government, we're fully government" so basically the case law about a partial governmental group needing to not discriminate/censor media applies more-so for a fully governmental group.
@Jack Thompson, Attorney


HAHA.... u got pwn3d by GP. I do hope T2 comes down on them.
"Such a suit here is highly unlikely, given the \”absolute discretion\” the System has to pull ads for any reason. Nice try, Dennis."

Wow, I had no idea that simple line could null and void constitutional amendments. Incredible.

The fact that they are a full government institution instead of a quasi-one means they are even *more* bound than the MBTA was to not discriminate on the use of public resources.

Jack, again you demonstrate that you fail at law. No surprise there. Then again, par for the course. You think the 1st Amendment only applies to you...
L42yB,
Well, I follow the belief that religion is far closer to an "educational tool" because it is used to directly teach individuals a way to act as well as treat one another.

But games, movies, TV, written literature, music, etc are all "peripheral", even if one exposes themselves to specific content or themes.

The "get a life" crack can be funny when spoken, but the truth is, for the overwhelming majority of individuals, these "peripheral" activities only constitute a small part of one's life.

And, it's true that while religion can be an educational tool to lead an individual to treat others a certain way, for the overwhelming majority of believers, it isn't an all consuming, all controlling effect on an individual's life.

However, when an individual not only appears to consume themselves in anything but trys to force others to be consumed by the exact same thing, then a problem is clearly evident. Then the "get a life" or, even more appropriate "stay out of MY life" seems to have more meaning.

But, yes, an "educational tool" has far more an impact on individuals than "peripheral exposure" does.

Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
I thought it was illegal for a government, or quasi-government orgnization (because after reading the Board of County Commissioners legislation, one can hardly call it informed government legislating), to pass legislation regarding a single company. Reeks of bias, and discrimination on their own part. Furthermore, singling out Walmart then tagging on "other retailers" also screams bias. They're going for what they think is the big boy on the block, or for the one they can think of up front. Sloppy. Honestly, T2/R* could very well take the County Commissioners to court over that little piece of legislation. Defamation and bias by government officials is a nasty, nasty business that can cost a city or state millions.
Provided TT2 wins their suit against Chicago,Miami will definitely cave.
MDT: The Miami-Dade County Commission has adopted three resolutions in the last five years dealing with violent video games — R-1447-03, R-248-04 and R-573-06. You may look up all three at www.miamidade.gov/govaction/searchleg.asp?Action=searchleg.
The first resolution specifically condemned the “Grand Theft Auto: Vice City” video game for its “hate-filled messages” and for appearing “to encourage or condone violence against ethnic minorities” and called on retailers to remove the game from their shelves. The other two condemned violent video games in general and urged retailers not to make such games available to minors.
Miami-Dade Transit is a department of Miami-Dade County and as such follows the policies set by the Miami-Dade County Commission and Mayor.

In none of the resolutions does it state anything about decency, which was not violated by the advertisements. Nor are there any displays of violence in any of the ads, which makes referencing these three resolutions null and cheap talking points handed out by the Miami Dade Board of Commissioners. They are all non-binding resolutions that carry little to no legal weight, and any judge worth their salt would look at it and say that it is flatly biased against a particular company (since it is named) or media without regards to multiple forms of media. Miami should be praying very hard that T2 looses in Chicago, or their ass is on the chopping block next.
Such clear answers...
@Jack Thompson

In the immortal words of Ashton Kutcher, "Oh, BURN! BURN!"

@GP

Nice burn.

@Topic

Yeah, if you pay someone to put up ads, and it doesn't show anything remotely inappropriate ie. sex, violence, etc. then I don't reallt think that Miami or any other transit system has the right to just pull those ads since they accepted them in the first place.
I'd assume that T2 isn't waiting on the outcome of their legal action in Chicago before bringing legal action in Miami. I'd assume they're drafting their complaint against Dade County as we speak.

Hey, Jack. Suit by T2 against Dade County would be a good opportunity for you to seek permission to file one of your officious, intermeddling, and fallacy-filled amicus curae briefs. Good look finding an 11th Circuit or Southern District judge who'll give you the time of day, though. I suspect you've thoroughly burned all those bridges.
T2 better sue 'em. I'm tired of the shit.
Great question dodging by the MDT. (sarcasm)
Damn firefox.
As I was saying..
That interview had some intense "don't answer the question" action going down.
It's quite sad that their fallback for their censorship is that they're a "full government agency."
I would think that would mean they have less slack in doing this sort of thing.
@nightwng2000

I wouldn't blame it on the religion itself, I'd put it on the religious group that comitted the crime.

I wouldn't throw an Arab Muslim in prison just because certain Arab Muslims (whose names, if anyone knows them, must not be disclosed) took part in 9/11. Hell, I wouldn't throw a Japanese person in prison just because Japan attacked Pearl Harbor during World War II. That's just wrong.

And nightwng2000, this wasn't to say you were wrong, I was expressing my views in relation to what you said.
@KenshinSlayer

Typically, I'd agree. But when the transit authority is a government agency, it must adhere to the US Constitution. As such, pulling the ads could easily be seen as a violation of the First Amendment, especially when the company which paid for the ads to be there, already had paid. Even so, without a good justifiable (that is: constitutionally safe) reason to pull the ads, the Transit Authority might have some... future difficulty in legal circles.
@ Jack Thompson

So what would you do if Take Two also sues Miami-Dade Transit like they should over free speech?

There was an agreement between you and Take Two to not mess with their games and it seems like you are really breaking that agreement.

Since you said that you are just only trying to stop the sale of games like GTA 4 to children then go ahead yet you are just making a bad image of yourself by messing with the games themselves for adults to play how they were intended.
That gamer zone guy needs to learn to link right, not just make copy pasta. Also, Shadow, tone it down bud; You’re looking like a hyper active 13 year old there, mate.
I thought you couldn't do a removal due to complaint unless it was by multiple people, not just one, especially if the complaint is not "offensive" to them directly in any sense...

Would it be possible for T2 to go to the courts and get an even stricter "restraint" against Jack Thompson, seeing as he has not only violated the last restraint but has now caused the (potential) loss of profit for GTA IV due to his sole complaint, even though he has a history of attacking most T2 games? Can they do that now?

This is ridiculous. The ads don't say or show anything offensive, violent, or racist. If they had the main character and the words "Kill whitey in GTA IV" or "Cops are worth bonus points!" then yeah, I could see the problem. If I recall right, all ads have just pictures of the people...nothing really going with them. So stupid. Thanks, Jack.
Maybe Miami/Dade county should spend time on the real problems (and they have A LOT of them) the county has instead of non-issues like billboard advertisements.
@Jack Thompson

Seriously Thompson, you don't have to lie. You wanted them pulled for the ever minute chance this would hurt Take Two's sales.

Or you just finally wanted to wind something
@Poppo

Sorry, that's The Other Shadow, or T.O.S. for short, messing around. Sometimes I swear he won't discard his youth, acting like he's 6 when he's about... 16, I think. He genuinely annoys me, so I gotta shout him down to shut him up. He also types stuff and cries when I delete it, so for the sake of my hearing I leave them there and post my responses to his antics.

T.O.S.: Hiya, Poppo! Name's-

*Shadow puts his hand over T.O.S.'s mouth.

Shadow: No you do not. Do not give your name out to everyone.
I am sure Joke Thompson faxed them a bunch of e-mails saying the game was pornography and that if they didn't remove it then they would face a lawsuit.

What he didn't tell them is that the game is NOT pornography. The game has been rated for Mature Audiences 17 years of age and older.

I am pretty sure that what JT has done goes against his agreement with TT. They may just be waiting for the verdict to come down on him before taking any action. JT might try to get any action taken against him stalled if he is involved in litigation at the time.

Who knows at this point. JT stop making sense a long time ago when he decided to try and get interactive entertainment classified as porn.

As an aside, I was playing GTA IV, and a random pedestrian yelled out C.U.N.T. F.L.A.P.S. as I was walking by. Was good for a laugh. It is funny that JT has increased my enjoyment of GTA IV. If he stayed out of it, I would not have been as interested in it. I was tired of GTA from playing the others.

Thank you for giving the game more advertising than they could ever have paid for. Not only that, but they will get back a chunk of that money they spent on ads because you decided to fax and threaten in your usual way.

Jack Thompson, you are a fucking joke and a pathetic excuse for a human being. Practise what you preach, grow up and get a life.
Oh and GP, as always, thank you for doing what you do and getting this information.

Allowing JT to get away with this would be setting up a precedent for when other games are released and advertised.

Gamepolitics: Where rational gamers and fundamentalist terrorists collide.
Im a little suprised they even tried putting up the ads in miami, did they forget jack lives there?
@Iliad

I'm sure they remembered, but like the rest of the world they probably didn't care. For example he lives in America but I don't consider him to actually be an American citizen.

I guess all we can hope for is another lawsuit, maybe one that'll tie Thompson in and make him look like even more of a jackass.
I realize this is slightly off-topic, but since i don't have the game, i want to clarify.

Does that supposed incident that JT alleged to be in the game (ie, killing a video game-hating lawyer, therefore it MUST be him /sarcasm) actually exist? Or did he just make that one up too because there was a lawyer character in a trailer?
@DavCube

There is a lawyer you have to kill. And he is described as being a "crusader" but it's actually against real crimes. Also, his assistant tells you that anyone caught against him better get out of the way.

Therefore, it can't be him, because, I mean, he's never won a case.

Also, the lawyer in game teaches children to swim, and no parent is going to let their children near JT.
@ Wessels

Ah, as i thought.
Jack's back. I thought it smelled like shit around here.
Oh hey, Thompson was here?

Hehe, I guess he should be around more and more. I mean, what else is he gonna do after he gets unemployed?
@Jack Thompson, Attorney

Just to be fair, have you asked the Miami-Dade Transit Authority to pull ads other than GTAIV before? Ads that also would be questionable to children or morals? Documented proof is optional. I'm just wondering if your latest stunt was motivated by your "unilateral hate" of GTA/Rockstar/Take-Two, or if it is part of your [religious] crusade against crude media.
@ Delta

Jack Thompson is not doing this for a religious crusade, he is doing this because he is a thrill seeking trouble maker.
@Condemned 2 fan

Seriously. If he was interested in helping people, or 'good Christian Fellowship' he'd be helping set up relief aid for Myanmar rather than threatening TT and R* over things he knows aren't going to change.
@Condemned 2 fan

He wants the media attention. Otherwise he wouldn't spam everyone at all hours of the day about everything he does. But I for one would like to listen to him explain what he is doing, without his typical cliche references to past trials, current civil suits, appearances on X show. I want to listen to him debate this topic like a civil human being and point-counter-point with reputable people and sources.

I know. A fairy tale. We all can wish, right?
Jack will still be listed as an attorney when he appears on FOX news.
@ GRIZZAM 512

Do you know what the penalty is for claiming you're an attorney when you're actually a disbarred attorney?

If anyone has the answer to this it would be an interesting factoid to have. You KNOW he's going to keep calling himself an attorney even when he's disbarred.
I bet you that despite JT's assertions, Take Two will sue all advertisers who pulled their ads based on breach of contract. In this case with Miami-Dade, the MDT had the responsibility to apply one of their rules prior to accepting the contract. In fact, the only way they won't get sued is if arbitrary elimination of paid advertisement is in the contract.

JT's best argument in debates and such is "saying it is so doesn't make it true." I repeat that back, just because JT's assurance to Dennis that the lawsuit won't happen doesn't make it so.
[...] Officials of the Miami Transit Authority have made an official response to GamePolitics regarding the pulling of the transit adverts for GTAIV. Miami Transi Authority talks GTAIV advert Pull with GamePolitics [...]
@ JackDon'tKnowJack: I think we've found your successor for "Too Many Over-Dramatic Posts In One Topic", and it's Shadow Darkman, hands down.
Is anyone else finding this retard annoying?

@ Jack Thompson, Attorney: Welcome back. We missed you!

@GP: Great post. Unfortunately, MDT doesn't scare easily, unless you're a sensationalist, over-zealous old fart thumping a bible in front of the TV cameras.
@Loudspeaker:

Depending on a more complete description of the facts underlying your hypothetical (praticularly the motive for making the false claim) the potential criminal charges could range anywhere from fraud to the unauthorized practice of law. In most states, fraud and UPL are, I believe, both felonies (fraud certainly is a felony) punishable by substantial fines, more than one year of incarceration, or both. The actual penalty would depend on a host of factors (past offenses; damage to the victim, if any; restitution made; etc.; etc.).
@yowzers:

Good. Then maybe now you'll raise up offa my nuts and go bother Shadow Darkman.
@JackDon'tKnowJack

BURN! Oh, and in your defense, I tend to blog a bit excessively myself.
@JDKJ

@yowzers

STFU, both of you. You think I friggin' LIKE the fact that T.O.S. is immature for a 16-year-old? Cripes, he friggin' annoying as hell!

T.O.S.: Hey, I resent that!

Shadow: Get over it, little boy.

T.O.S.: *sniff* WAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!! [Shadow]'S BEING MEAN TO ME!!! *runs away, crying*

Shadow: *sigh* Hope he drowns in his tears.
@Shadow Darkman:

Go easy, my man. It wasn't I that attacked you and my response to yowzers wasn't intended to validate anything he said about you. I think I'm underserving of your STFU.
T.O.S?
That's "undeserving," not "underserving."
@GRIZZAM 512

Stands for "The Other Shadow" as he likes to pretend he's me.
@Shadow,

Do you see anyone posting nonsense like your own? Your antics are doing nothing but making the signal to noise ratio on these forums worse. Please, for the sake of people who enjoy this forum, behave yourself.
@Shadow Darkman

Well I'm glad there's not another GRIZZAM for me ta' have ta' fuck with.
Geez...its a never ending cycle.
Here's the part I don't at all get:

Isn't it more cost-effective and result-certain to drag Jack's ass back to court for clearly violating the settlement agreement than it is to allow him to disparage T2, its products, and their marketing efforts to a transit authority (in violation of the agreement) with the result that their advertising gets pulled and they then have to drag the transit authority to court? They're suing the effect but not the cause. That kinda backasswardness don't make a lick o' sense to me. Does it to anyone else?
[...] At least sites like Gamepolitics are willing to stand up for the industry and investigate what causes these actions to occur, such as interviewing Miami Dade Transit about why they revoked their GTA 4 ads. [...]
@JackDon'tKnowJack

I think that's one reason he gets so viral, no one has tried to sue him directly and make his mouth pay those checks.
I think the best thing about reading this was to just see what it is like when the person doing the interview is actually informed about the topics being discussed. It is getting to the point when you see interviews on TV or read them in the paper you can see that the reporter has no background information or knowledge pertaining to the subject at hand.

I have to believe that after this interview Mr. Chen ran back to his office and said, "hHey guys, we have to look up some court case called 'Change the Climate vs MBTA' quick! And what does 'uasi-governmental transit agency' mean?"
@kurisu7885:

T2 sued him and forced a settlement -- no doubt owing to Jack's fear that they were going to collect a grip of attorney fees from him -- which prohibits him from doing precisely what he's been doing to them. If T2 want to disregard the value of their settlement and let Jack run around unfettered, talking smack about them, then they deserve anything they get as a result of their choice not to enforce the settlement. I actually hope Jack's complaining to each and every transit authority in the country hosting GTAIV advertising and that they respond favorably to his crazy ass and pull T2's advertising. Maybe that's what'll it take for T2 to finally grow a pair and make some attempt to shut Jack down.
@JackDon'tKnowJack

Or maybe Take Two is letting him do it so he can't "Oh, but you never said I wouldn't do this."
Meant to read "couldnt"

Damn lack of an edit button.
@kurisu7885:

Or maybe he's terrorized them into submission. If so, shame on Strauss.
Do any of you have an idea as to why Take Two has not taken any action on Jack Thompson yet?

I just find it very wierd why they are suing the Chicago transit yet they are not taking any action against Jack Thompson after what he was doing after the agreement.
@ JDKJ & Condemned 2 fan

I believe Take 2 may be waiting for Jack to be disbarred before they go after him. I'm not exactly sure of the rules, but I remember hearing somewhere that it is somehow more difficult to successfully sue an attorney. They have the legal equivalent of diplomatic immunity or some such. I guess they feel his disbarrment is all but assured and they're just going to bide their time and strike when he will no longer have the protection of the legal system and be forced to pay out-of-pocket for the expenses.
@yowzers

I for one found it funny and I find you to be an asshole, that retard comment was uncalled for.
[...] There is no word whether Take Two Interactive will pursue any sort of legal action against Miami-Dade Transit. However, GamePolitics conducted a brief interview with Miami-Dade Transit Deputy Director Hugh Chen and Marketing Director Michael DeCossio concerning the pulling of the ads: [GamePolitics]: The GTA IV ads themselves are inoffensive. Is Miami-Dade Transit making a value judgment as to the underlying product? If so, this judgment is based on…? [...]
@Black Manta

"I guess they feel his disbarrment is all but assured and they’re just going to bide their time and strike when he will no longer have the protection of the legal system and be forced to pay out-of-pocket for the expenses."

Under normal circumstances I'd say that is just cold-blooded. Kicking a man when he's down and such. But hey, you reap what you sow. After all the lying, deceiving, harassment, preying on the families of victims, double standards, unprofessional conduct and behavior and let us not forgot all the poor, innocent fax machines he's maimed and destroyed along the way, he deserves nothing less.
If the game, GTA 4 is not designed and intended for minors, wouldn't it fall under the clause about adverts for products or activities that exclude minors? With that, I'm less likely to criticize the transit authority, but at the same time, I still have that bit of gamer in me that would like to see Rockstar get it's take out of this, especially since they were canceled at the absolute worst time.
There's actually a good argument to be made that by failing to timely enforce the terms of their agreement with Jack and thereby unnecessarily exposing the corporation to lost profits and needless litigation against third-parties, T2's corporate officers are breaching duties owed to the company's shareholders. And for which breach of duty, the shareholders can sue T2. Matter of fact, if I was a T2 shareholder, I'd do just that.

(Note to self: call broker tomorrow re: purchasing one share of T2).
@Freyar:

A regulation that prohibits advertising of products or activities that exclude minors may itself be unconstitutional. Protecting minors from the harmful effects, if any, of adult-orientated advertising is an insufficiently compelling interest to justify the regulation's restrictive effect on free speech. So said at least one court.

Plus, as one poster already noted, the resolutions to which the MDTA's spokesperson pointed GP are just that: resolutions. Unlike ordinances, resolutions don't have any real legal force to them. You can't violate a resolution; only an ordinance can be violated.
I'm sorry to say, but I live in Miami-Dade county, and I was quite shocked to be scrolling down the page here on GP and see the county's name. I'm really not surprised that the Transit Authority removed the ads after Jack Thompson complained about them, nor am I surprised to learn of the previous legislation passed by the County Commission regarding GTA: Vice City... the County Commission is notorious for having their priorities out-of-order. It's just the way things are down here... the local government in general doesn't seem to be living in the same reality as the rest of us.


Playing Devil's advocate though:

"... as well as ads promoting businesses engaged in any activity that requires that exclusion of minors."
-- I suppose you could look at this and infer that since GTA is rated M, and minors aren't supposed to be playing it anyway, that they are being "excluded," and that violates the rule.
@Kira:

To play Jesus' advocate:

An "M" rating signifys a "Mature" rating which, according to the creators of the rating system (the ESRB), means 17-year-olds and older. Technically, because the age of majority in Florida is 18 years, a 17 year-old minor isn't excluded and, therefore, the rule, to the extent it has any force of law to begin with (this is debatable because the "rule" is merely a resolution, not an ordinance), isn't being violated.
@ BrandonL337: Well, I'm not really surprised that someone with "L337" in their name finds Shadow Darkman's unintelligent and attention-whoring comments funny.

@ JackDon'tKnowJack: You have nuts? I've been down here looking all over, and I can't find a thing!
@yowzers:

You've casted your baited hooks my way on at least two occassions before. I didn't bite then and I'm not biting now. But feel free to continue casting 'til you're blue in face. Whatever floats your boat.
@yowzers

Knock this shit off. I personally don't have time for this, so I say now. If you have only negative comments about how I post comments, then please keep them to yourself.

*T.O.S. enters as a waterlogged zombie*

T.O.S.: Uhhhnnn... Uhhhnnn.... Braaaiiinnnsss....

Shadow: Ah, shit. Time to go Resident Evil on him.

*Shadow takes up an AK-47 and chases after T.O.S.*

T.O.S.: AAAAHHHHH I WAS JUST KIDDIIIIIIIING!!!

Shadow: You choose strange reasons to die, boy!
Oh grow up.
You know, that pic to the left gives me an idea. How about a poster campaign plastered on to the side of the bus stops with a great big picture of JT. Under it would read...

The advertising previously on this bus stop for the videogame Grand Theft Auto IV has been removed by the MDT who caved to pressure from such individuals as Jack Thompson who believe that, like rock and roll and comic books, video games turn children into malevolent killers despite evidence to the contrary.

Jack Thompson is also currently facing disbarment in Florida.

This message brought to you by Gamers For Civil Liberties.
@ JackDon'tKnowJack: Okay, then, big guy, you win. You're way too smooth for me. By the way, you haven't posted in the last couple of hours. Are you still alive?

@ Shadow Darkman: Here's your award. You are officially the most retarded and unfunny contributor at GamePolitics. Slobber much?
@yowzers:

And kicking.
Why is Jack such an opponent of free speech/ freedom of expression? The makers of games have the right to put anything they want in games. And why isn't he attacking the movie industry? They put just as bad things, if not worse things into their art.
Why is it that Jack Thompson

Why is it that Jack Thompson was the only recorded person to complain about the ads?

Who cares, MDT pulling the ads is a violation of our freedoms and he should just calm down and try to play the game, because then he might not be such a dick

Re: Miami-Dade Transit Officials Explain GTA IV Ad Ban Decision
Jack Thompson should back off from T2/R* since they had settled this earlier, directly/ind. which makes me wonder why they haven't done anything about this. But also the lawsuit against MDT would be justified by the contract the two parties had agreed on and went through with, not to mention the 1st ammendment, but this is also questionable due to the fact that the game is rated M, exclusion of minors, BUT the actual material presented is the ads, themselves being pulled down, so there is no violation.etc

GamePolitics ShoutBox

Posted 11/23/09 at 10:08am
Rodrigo Ybáñez García: http://tinyurl.com/ye6x9nv
Posted 11/23/09 at 10:08am
Rodrigo Ybáñez García: The very definition of "Lucky Shot":
Posted 11/23/09 at 07:56am
DarkSaber: http://tinyurl.com/yl2vfw6 Here's the link, good for conspiracy theories.
Posted 11/23/09 at 07:42am
JDKJ: Leaders never follow. Followers never lead.
Posted 11/23/09 at 06:48am
DarkSaber: Anyone been following this Hadley Climatic Research Centre server hack story?
Posted 11/22/09 at 11:48pm
ZippyDSMlee: AE:they feeding you well? I am enjoying win7 and heading to bed...uhg I need to get up early and start back to cleaning/painting blahg >< need tog et stuff done befor thanksgiving....
Posted 11/22/09 at 11:41pm
Andrew Eisen: Just got home from an eight hour recording session at Capitol Records. A lot of fun but damn exhausting.
Posted 11/22/09 at 08:44pm
BearDogg-X: 10 N. O. Who Dat?
Posted 11/22/09 at 09:45am
ZippyDSMlee: JD:I think doc phill is still sout about the break up with his wife he dose not fill holes as much as make them bigger these day
Posted 11/22/09 at 12:06am
JDKJ: You should get Phil McCraken to help you spackle those banisters.
Posted 11/21/09 at 11:57pm
ZippyDSMlee: Oh in the pirate hunter article I need my song ieda heckled DS,JD,Beemon sic im !!!
Posted 11/21/09 at 11:56pm
ZippyDSMlee: JD:no I am tried from prepping the banisters for painting , worked on them from 12 to 4 and 6 to 8...after I got back from the store...got up early got ready...blah...been up all day..I need a nap...
Posted 11/21/09 at 11:42pm
JDKJ: No. You gonna stay up late tonight soldering?
Posted 11/21/09 at 11:41pm
ZippyDSMlee: JDKJ:Don't you mean Mctite?
Posted 11/21/09 at 11:33pm
JDKJ: @Zip: Neil, Bob, and Lik McTaint. The McTaint brothers. LOL!!!
Posted 11/21/09 at 09:44pm
Flamespeak: I still think military personell, killing other military personell, on a military complex should be handled by military courts.
Posted 11/21/09 at 09:43pm
Flamespeak: I could see this a mixture of the two charges rather than just one or the other.
Posted 11/21/09 at 09:43pm
Flamespeak: I think this was mainly a person who snapped, but evidence is showing he definitely had strong inlinations to islamic-extremism.
Posted 11/21/09 at 09:41pm
Flamespeak: People are trying to claim that Hasan's actions were not terrorism. I don't jump on the 'terror train' like others, however
Posted 11/21/09 at 09:38pm
mentor07825: Britain certainly does deserve it! And the French! God damn it, it was a hand ball!!!
Login or register to post shouts