You know, with the exception of Experiance points in RPG's like Mass Effect and Final Fantasy, and the point system in the Meta Game for Halo 3, I can't recall any major, non-puzzle based game in the last 10 years that seriously used 'points' as a reward, except the Ace Combat series, but that's an arcade stlye flight simulator.

These groups are stuck in 1984 where games were Pac-man and Donkey Kong and were about as deep as Steam Boat Willie. It would be like people complaining about Casablanca because it had alcohol, shootings and Nazi's in it, saying that it glamourized them. The fact of the matter is these people still think video games are the Original NES and think that everything for them should be child friendly, about a deep as a thin crust pizza, and as mindless as your average sitcom.

By that token then we should only have silent films, The Honeymooers on TV, and Perry Como on the radio. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the censorship that they want to impose to at it's heart bornout of ignorance and fear; two things that almost always lead to tolitarianism. If people start saying that they want it there way or not at all then they will only except victory, even a phyrric one.

TIP TO THOSE WHO COMPLAIN ABOUT HOW DRUNK DRIVING IN GTA4 SUCKS:

Try the motorcycle. I had no problems driving that while drunk.

[...] wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptTaking  the Parents Television Council up on an interview offer, Phil Villarreal of the Arizona Daily Star spoke with Dan Isett (left), PTC Director of Public Policy about Grand Theft Auto IV. Along with a number of other watchdog groups, the PTC has been highly critical of GTA IV in recent days. Villarreal, however, reports that Isett’s knowledge of what is actually in the game is a bit lacking: Isett: I’ve actually played ‘Grand Theft Auto IV,’ and it’s right in keeping with previous versions. The series continues to lower the bar and this is the first game that has an alcohol content warning. You get points for driving drunk in this game. Villarreal: You know that’s not true, right? The game doesn’t have points. Isett: If nothing else, it’s a rewarded activity. Necessary for advancement. Villarreal: I don’t think so. Isett: But there’s an alcohol content warning and a scene of drunk driving, correct? Villarreal: Yes. Did you play that part? Isett: No, no. […] [...]

i feel like I should get to read the rest of the interview...I could use a good laugh.

Y'know that right to free speech that everyone keeps talking about when the government tries to introduce legislation that would fine retailers for selling games to underage kids?

That same rule applies to guys like Isett. There's nothing in that part of the constitution that says you can only speak if you know what you're talking about. These guys (and gals) are after self-promotion and they'll jump on whatever bandwagon is at the front of the parade to look like they're leading the charge.

What I want to know is this... In all these recent artcles about GTA it always seems to be about protecting the children. Children shouldn't be playing an M-rated game in the first place, so how about we put the pressure where it belongs, on the parents.

Wow.

First, the PTC doesn't condemn FOX News for passing on false information to Parents regarding Mass Effect.

Now, one of the groups own top dogs intentionally misinforms Parents about contents of a video game.

Really, PTC. Is this the type of "moral superiority" you want to present to Parents and others?

Shameful. Just shameful.

Nightwng2000
NW2K Software

"Villarreal: Yes. Did you play that part?

Isett: No, no. I didn’t get that far… "

DOTA Voice: OWNAGE.

I think it's great when these people are shown getting owned.

Villarreal: Yes. Did you play that part?

Isett: No, no. I didn’t get that far…

Villarreal: Don't you think it's massively irresponsible to use your implied authority as a Director of Public Policy to advise parents on issues that aren't even factually supported?

Isett: LOL.. Nah.

Proof positive that the PTC guys are clueless.

He didn't get that far? I got to that in my first couple of hours of play. I hated it and will do whatever necessary to avoid having to do it again.
Niko couldn't even walk straight while drunk, there's no way I would even try and drive a car like that. I made him walk it off, and even once the camera stopped swinging around like a "Blair Witch Project" rip-off and I decided to have him drive the rest of the distance. What a mistake! He still couldn't keep the car on the road. If anything, it seemed like the game was trying to drive home the concept that even when you think you're safe to drive, you're not.

@Nightwing2000

But the Sopranos is not rated R, it's rated TV-MA, for 17 and above.... wait a a sec....ZOMG! TV-MA! M! There's a sort of consistency between two rating systems so all but the dimmest of parents should be able to understand them.

@ Altair

You're doing it WRONG.

@ the article

OHHHH BUUUURRRRN

Well, you could say its a rewarded activity on the grounds that your friendship percentage with whoever you got drunk with gets higher. When they're percentage gets high enough you get perks. Of course drinking with them isn't the only way to make them like you, but still...

If nothing else, this guy has no concept of what a reward is. I imagine these people playing a game like GTA the way they claim it is meant to be played and wondering why they die around the time they get 5 points (stars).

Let me clarify what a reward is. A reward in a game is something that makes the game easier. Invincibility, an attack bonus, health restoration, extra money, a new ability or weapon, etc. That's a reward. Trying to walk straight and stumbling into a wall is not a reward.

Idiots, I just played that part and no, you don't get points for the drunk driving.

Seriously, I waited till Niko acted like he was sober, when the screen stopped shaking and such, and even then, he wasn't fully, and the driving, oh lord, don't think I'll try that again any time soon, that was a pain in the butt.

But thats the same kinda logic that they use saying you get points for killing the cops, what a load.

Me: And you dont think its a little irresponsible to be preaching all this stuff if you have nothing to back it up with?

Isett: Meh.

"No, no. I didn’t get that far…"

This is why I hate these kinds of people.

He didn't get that far? I had the option to drive drunk less than an hour into the game (probably 30 min if I wasn't captivated by the cutscenes). I'd say he didn't play, but watched youtube vids.

On a side note, my first option to drink and drive.. I opted not to, because I wanted points:

I was on a date (first date w/ Michelle) and chose to be responsible and take a taxi back from an Irish Bar in Bohan(?)... because I felt I had a better shot at "warm coffee" if I didn't drink and drive... I was right and got points (+5 GS) for not drinking and driving.

I'm curious as to why they keep referring to violent games as though one gets "points" for doing nasty things.

First, when has the promise of "points" ever really driven someone to do something? If I say to someone driving a car in the city, "I'll give you ten points if you run down that old lady over there," they don't start revving their engine. Points mean nothing.

Which brings us to the second point. Developers realized long ago that nobody really cares about points anymore, at least not in games such as GTA or Call of Duty. And when they do involve points, there has to be some way to use those points to get something out of it, like the studs in LEGO Star Wars or the money in the career mode of Guitar Hero. Thus, there are no points where there doesn't need to be points.

And the clear fact that needs to get through their heads: THERE ARE NO POINTS IN GTA! Stop saying we get points for killing people, because any retard who plays the game for ten minutes can see it's not true.

[...] via Gamepolitics.com [...]

Spiral Gray said: "That same rule applies to guys like Isett. There’s nothing in that part of the constitution that says you can only speak if you know what you’re talking about."

You're right, except that when statements are made public, like the PTC does, you can commit libel and/or slander. I'm not disagreeing with Spiral Gray. Most people, if they say "I think GAME X's content is pornographic," that's an opinion protected by the Constitution, but if they claim that a Game X IS pornographic, they are potentially liable under civil law.

The tricky part is to prove that defamation has a negative impact on your product. The truth is, the extra controversy only increases a game's sales. I think the game publisher and developer take a beating in the long run, especially in stock sales.

My conclusion is that these self-authoritative groups had better do some research before they claim things as fact. In a courtroom setting, the simple questions of "did you play it? Where is that in the game? Do you have video of this (and cite the source)?" are the most important and will win the case for the plaintiff.

One word to describe this:

OWNED

@Dave

Wow, I wish now that Villarreal would've dropped that line on Isett. "You see, even the game is aware of designated driving."

So good to see more game critics blatantly admitting of their lack of experience of the games. It still is not as bad as the Mass Effect debacle where that book author was like "LOL NO" when asked if she played the game before.

Isett: But there’s an alcohol content warning and a scene of drunk driving, correct?

Villarreal: Yes. Did you play that part?

Isett: No, no. I didn’t get that far…

HAHAHAHAHAHA. Just like every other anti-game person out there. They don't know what they are talking about.

"They think that “reward” for gamers are like some kind of adrenaline rush or some effect like get high with cocaine or crack."

I don't know about you, but I totally trip balls when I win some points--cheese my f-ing brains out.

I find it amazing that someone (or some organization) would make a national campaign of railing against a form of media without observing it for themselves. It takes a good deal of work to put together a national campaign like this, would it kill someone in office to sit down a play the game first?

When you get drunk in GTA4, your friend tells you probably shouldn't drive and suggests you call a cab. If you ignore him and drive drunk anyway, it's very difficult, you're likely to crash and/or hit pedestrians, and if the cops see you they will pull you over and arrest you.

That's totally the same as the game requiring you to drive drunk in order to advance, right?

Why didn't the interviewer tell him that? His response of "I don’t think so" is so disappointing. I wanted to hear that ignorant asshole get *shut down*. It was a perfect opportunity, wasted. :(

Wow he was not right about anything. Including them lowering the bar. If anything the bar has been raised. The violence is barely graphic, any negative behavior is punished, and, most importantly, the graphics sure are pretty.

Isett = Fail

@Kovitlac

Actually, this is par for the course. The 'experts' have seen 5 minutes of video, have never played the game, and are latched onto an idea that can easily be proven as wrong.

Just a normal day in the week for Game Politics I think.

Adding to Simon Roberts' post, an LiveJournal friend of mine pointed out that in Saints Row, you could get drunk and high while driving and nobody said anything about that then.

First thing I did when I played the game was check up online and find out how to drive drunk. Bad idea. The only reward I can see is pulling off a god-awesome stunt and posting a video on YouTube.

Just about every crime you break in a GTA game is a punished behavior. You rack up money (Might as well be points, I guess), but the higher that wanted level goes, the harder it is to do anything except hide under a bridge and hope the cops keep driving into the river instead of taking the ramp around the other side. Its fun going on a rampage, but if you're in the game to finish it (which is what I generally consider the "reward"), you're not getting very far by making a big scene all the time.

bitch FUCK MOTHERING slapped

In other news, ignorance has once again reached never before seen levels...