E3 Keynote Speaker Backed Controversial Pastor's Claim that non-Christians Condemned to Hell

June 3, 2008 -

When the Entertainment Software Association announced on May 19th that Texas Governor Rick Perry would deliver the keynote address at E3 2008, GamePolitics was one of the few news outlets to publicly question the ESA's decision.

We expect more raised eyebrows over Perry's selection given yesterday's reports on Wired and The Escapist that in November, 2006 Perry affirmed the comments of controversial minister John Hagee that non-Christians are condemned to Hell.

In the photo at left, Perry is seen covering his face while Hagee preaches.

Sen. John McCain, the presumptive Republican presidential candidate, recently rejected Hagee's endorsement over, as CNN reported, "Hagee's comments that Adolf Hitler had been fulfilling God's will by hastening the desire of Jews to return to Israel in accordance with biblical prophecy."

As the Dallas Morning News reported on November 6, 2006:

Gov. Rick Perry, after a God and country sermon attended by dozens of political candidates Sunday, said that he agreed with the minister that non-Christians will be condemned to hell.

 

"In my faith, that's what it says, and I'm a believer of that," the governor said.

 

...Asked afterward at a political rally whether he agreed with Mr. Hagee, the governor said he didn't hear anything that he would take exception to. He said that he believes in the inerrancy of the Bible and that those who don't accept Jesus as their savior will go to hell.
GP: While there are surely many Christians among E3 attendess, there are just as surely many who aren't. Aside from the fact that Perry was a bizarre keynote choice from the get-go, his divisive comments indicate that the ESA should rescind the offer.
 
We have to ask again: why is E3 2008 being politicized? The answer, we suspect, has much to do with embattled ESA boss Michael Gallagher.
 
UPDATE: The ESA went ballistic over this story and called GP's objectivity into question, given the ECA's ownership of the site. Here's part of what the ESA had to say:
 
If the ESA posted a blog and called it a news site, journalists would rightfully balk and it wouldn't pass a smell test. Remarkably, GamePolitics doesn't face the same scrutiny even though it's funded by the ECA and tainted with anti-ESA vitriol. At the end of the day, calling GamePolitics a news site is as laughable as saying there's a Cuban free press.
 

 Ouch.

Despite the ESA's reaction, I stand by what I wrote regarding the appropriateness - or lack thereof - of having Gov. Perry deliver the E3 keynote. However, I am making one edit to the headline. While Gov. Perry agreed with Rev. Hagee's contention that non-Christians would be condemned to Hell, it does not appear to be a direct quote. That error has been fixed.


Comments

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker Backed Controversial Pastor's Claim that

Hagee may or may not be a moron (I don't really know the guy), but you have certainly missed his point.  He is not speaking to Hitler's intentions, but rather to God's ability to use for good what man has intended for evil.  This is a recurring theme in the Bible.

Joseph was sold by his brothers into slavery, but God is able to turn things around so that Joseph arises to a position of power where he is able to save his people and even his brothers from famine.  In Joseph's confrontation with his brothers, he specifically calls out this fact saying, "You meant it for harm, but God meant it for good."

Jesus was betrayed by Judas, sentenced by Pilate, and crucified by Roman soldiers, but God is able to turn things around so that what looks like a failure is the world's greatest spiritual triumph, purchasing salvation for all who believe.

In his letter to the Romans, Paul writes about how God can work everything out to good for those that love Him and are called according to His purposes.

Along the same lines, Hagee is saying that though Hitler intended to wipe the jews off the face of the earth, God is able to turn around even that tragedy to lead His people back to their homeland.

Hagee may very well be a hate-mongering bigot.  As I said, I don't really know the guy or what he stands for.  But I have certainly not read anything here that would indicate he is to anyone who has not already judged him so.

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker Backed Controversial Pastor's Claim that

As to the Update, Ouch. ECA = Cuba. That has got to sting.

E. Zachary Knight
www.editorialgames.com

 

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker Backed Controversial Pastor's Claim that

It's funny that the ESA is calling Gamepolitics biased against them. Have they forgotten that the ESA and the ECA are on the same side?

-GRIZZAM PRIME(c)is property of the U.S. Marine Corp. Wetworks Dept., and also The Incredible Hulk-GRIZZAM PRIME is not to be associated with GRIZZAM 512 or any other GRIZZAM entity under penalty of law, so sayith ZARATHOS.

Reality/////////////////////////////////////Fantasy. Seems like a pretty thick line to me...

Annoyed

I'm kind of late making this comment, so I'm afraid that it will just get buried in the flood. But I certainly hope not. Quite simply put, I am annoyed: annoyed at Gamepolitics and a large section of its commenters, not the ESA or Rick Perry. In fact, I find the tone of parts of this article, and a good number of comments, to be extremely bigoted. That's right. I'm calling the people bashing Rick Perry bigots. You are the ones showing hate here.

But I expect things like that from internet posters. What disappoints me is that I expected better from Dennis. Let me tell you a few things about me, so you can better understand where I am coming from. I am a gamer, and someone who would really love to work in the industry as well. If things go well for me, I'll break into the industry and get to work on the stuff I love. And if things go really well, I might become a big enough name to be asked to speak at future gaming related events, like E3. (Assuming it even exists at that time.)

I also am I Christian. I believe in Heaven... and Hell. And I believe that the way to Heaven is through Christ. While I would never claim to know the ultimate fate of any person, and I believe that God works in interesting ways to save people we might not expect, when it comes down to it, I don't have any particular objections to Rick Perry's views, at least as they are described in brief in this article. Yes, I believe in hell. And I believe that those who reject God go there.

Apparently, that makes me a nutjub, a fanatic, and a hateful fiend who gives all Christians a bad name. At least according to the majority of posts here. But as I said previously, I expect stuff like that from internet posters. Simply stating that I am a Christian is going to earn me a lot of hate, and I am used to it.

What I did not expect was to hear Dennis state that I would be unqualified to speak at an event like E3 because of my "divisive" views. Or at least I would be if I ever made my views public, even if it occured at a place where that topic of discussion was appropiate. If I'm invited to be a keynote speaker at E3 in the future, and it's discovered that I made this post, will Dennis post an article stating that the ESA should rescind their offer to me?

I mean, is the mere concept of Hell such a taboo nowadays that anyone who believes in it, and suggests that anyone other than guys like Hitler will end up there, is lumped in with lunatics like the "Westboro Baptist Church"? Are my beliefs so horrible that my mere presence would be offensive to non-Christians, and make me unqualifed to speak to them on matters completely unrelated to religion?

That is what you are essentially saying, Dennis. Rick Perry may be utterly unqualifed to speak at E3 for other reasons, I don't know for sure. But his religious beliefs, at least as they are shown in this article, should be irrelevant. They should not bar him from speaking at E3. To suggest otherwise would be as absurd as me suggesting that we shouldn't let atheists speak at E3, because they might offend the Christians in the audience. I wonder what people would say about me if I suggested that.

A couple of final things. The article mentions that Hagee made some rather interesting Hitler comments that caused McCain to reject his endorsement. But did Rick Perry ever show any support for those comments? If not, why does it matter? Just because Rick Perry may have agreed with one thing Hagee said, doesn't mean he'll agree with everything Hagee will ever say.

And finally, I understand that a blanket statement like "non-Christians are condemned to hell" sounds pretty harsh, but it's not a statement you can properly consider by itself. You have to put it into the full context of Christian beliefs, and have to understand why hell would exist in the first place, and why anyone would deserve to go there, etc. It's a statement that doesn't really mean much by itself.

It would be me saying that a particular person believes that "innocent children who are murdered and tortured to death never get to go to Heaven, and instead simply cease to exist after death." Yet that is something that the majority of atheists probably believe. Of course, when put into the full context of their beliefs, it's not a cruel or hateful statement at all.

 

Re: Annoyed

I agree, I have no idea why it is such a problem that an Org. which is supposed to represent game companies would invite a bigoted hate mongering politician as a keynote speaker. I mean, that's like getting upset over inviting the puppet head of Iran as a speaker in a College and saying that it is evidence of how schools are liberally biased. As we know, no God Fearing Christian Republicans ever said anything like that. And what's so wrong with Politicians endorsing a specific religion and painting any other faith in a bad light? I mean, look at Theodore Roosevelt, he loved God so much....he wanted to remove "in God we trust" from currency because he supported the seperation of church and state. Waitaminute, bad example. Personally I have no problem with Republicans manipulating religious zealots in order to gain power, the fact of the matter is we would be done in Iraq by now if they had whipped the soldiers into suicidal berserkers with religious fervor on day one, but they really should be more honest about such tactics. The keynote at E3 has always been about the state of the Game Industry by an insider, this is a huge break with tradition to invite an ill-informed politician. It's like salsa made in New York City.

Re: Annoyed

Sigh... he's not a bigoted hate mongering politician. Or at least, I have seen no evidence of it so far. I wish more people were like MrFalcon, and understand that there wasn't (necessarily) any ill intent here.

Re: Annoyed

Maybe not, but it's stupid. If you're going to have a Basketball Convention, would you invite Jerry Rice as a keynote speaker to talk about the years accomplishments in the NBA? No. So why invite a Politician with no programming or entertainment industry experience to speak at a conference for video game makers? Because the Governor in question supports the political views of the person currently in charge of the ESA.

Re: Annoyed

Oh, I'm not saying that Rick Perry is a smart choice, I really don't know that much about him. Given how often politics and games tend to get mixed together, it's possible that a politician may actually have something useful to say, but so far I'm not sure if even the subject of Perry's speech is known.

But that's beside the point. In your example, would Jerry Rice's religious views matter to you?

Re: Annoyed

First of all, I can't let the claim that Dennis and this site is bigoted pass unchallenged. Of all the pages I read, gamepolitics remains one of the least 'spun' news sites out there. My only problem is that I can't find enough other sites that share Dennis' determination to report on his subject with the level of unpartisan dignity that he displays on a daily basis. It remains a must read for me as a consumer and an industry professional.

As for your rant, Mad_Scientist, you might try looking up irony sometime, as you've just provided a perfect example of why Rick Perry is an unsuitable E3 speaker. I don't believe that he has anything relevant to say to me as a developer. I also don't give two cents about your ethical, religious or political beliefs, or how much of a matyr you think you are for having them.

I don't believe that the ESA's purpose, to lobby for and represent the games industry as a professional body, is served by the ESA becoming more partisan. Individual political and religous belief varies massively accross the games industry (as it does anywhere else). Selecting Gov Perry to speak is divisive, and if you don't think so then you've completely missed the coverage of industry dissastisfaction over the new ESA, of which E3 and its speaker is a part. It doesn't matter to me what political or religous belief's Rick Perry has per se; but the fact that he is readily identified as having them, and not as a champion of the games industry, makes me wonder why he was chosen at all. A quick search of recent news shows nothing that relates the Govenor of Texas to any part of the games industry (no news other than his keynote appearance at E3 that is); his skills and education platforms are all about "skills training for good-paying jobs in the following areas: oil and gas exploration and production, power generation, mining, power transmission, and renewable energy sources, such as wind, bio-fuel, solar and geothermal energy" - no mention of the high tech sector, despite the fact that Austin is a development hub. The ESA has done nothing to illuminate us on the reason for the choice, other then to say that there is a lot of developers in Texas.

I thought Gore Verbinski was a strange choice to keynote DICE. I think Gov Perry is an abysmal choice for E3.

 

Re: Annoyed

Normally I find Dennis and Gamepolitics.com to be pretty balanced as well, which is why I was surprised by Dennis's statement. Perhaps I went too far in my opening paragraph, but I don't like the assertion that the ESA should rescind their offer to Perry simply because of his religious beliefs. Unless Dennis clarifies that comment, or I learn something else about Rick Perry's views that Dennis was actually referring to, that will not change.

You said a lot about how Perry doesn't seem like a guy who would have anything to say to a developer, and that is a valid point. I have no problem with that, and I agree that he seems like a weird choice to give the keynote, based on what we know about him. But that's not the statement I had a problem with.

Now, perhaps you can help me out here. The part of the article that I objected to is quoted below.

"...[Perry's] divisive comments indicate that the ESA should rescind the offer [for him to give the keynote.]"

He's not referring to Perry's lack of qualifications when he says the ESA should rescind the offer. He's referring to Perry's comments on his religious views. And as far as I can tell from this article, the only "divisive" thing Perry said essentially comes down to the fact that he believes the Bible when Jesus says "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father except by me."

That is what caused Dennis come out and say that Perry shouldn't speak at E3? It's not the massive list of Perry's lack of qualifications that does it, it is his religious beliefs?

Is there something I am missing? Or do you just have no problem with that, and not feel it is bigoted?

By the way, I don't think of myself a a matyr, nor was I trying to act like I was one in my post. Sorry if came off that way to you. And maybe I am just being dense here, but how exactly did my post show how Rick Perry is an unsuitable speaker?

EDIT: On a side note, I think MrFalcon's comment a bit below mine put things into better words than I did.

Re: Annoyed

Hmm, let me see if I can clarify why I think that you demonstrated how Perry is unsuitable as a speaker.

You have leapt to the defense of a fellow Christian, and half the rest of the posters have attacked him for being the same (half being a generic statement - I haven't actually counted). The biggest argument between posters is as to the merits, or otherwise, of religious tolerance and doctrine. Feel free to defend, or attack him, I don't care - but this demonstrates Perry as a figure who creates division. He creates it here, and he will create it amongst the audience of game industry professionials. In the absence of any strong, industry related reason for his appearance at E3, his publicly stated religious opinions and his history as Govenor of Texas are all we have to go on. And they are divisive. People are divided over them.

Let me say that again - if he had a strong, game industry related reason to speak at the keynote, then his religious views become less of an issue. If he is pro the games industry and wants to encourage it in his state, that's great! But does that support come with strings attached, for example would he not provide state support to a game he finds morally offensive? If he is critical of the industry, fine. Id rather see Senator Yee give that sort of keynote, as it's always useful to understand what the critics of the industry are saying, but it might still be interesting given that so many developers are in Texas.

But in the absence of the ESA giving any real detail about the nature of the keynote, it looks a lot like cronyism between Mike Gallagher and the Govenor of Texas. And that is bad for the ESA, and bad for the wider game industry. It might be even bad for the game consumer too, because while the needs of the consumers and the industry don't always align, a healthy games industry probably gives more choice & high quality content to the average customer.

 

Re: Annoyed

Hmm, there is a pretty strong debate going on here, that is true. But from my experience, people who post on internet sites tend to love to debate things quite often. And the whole subject of the article is the supposedly divisive nature of Perry's views, so it's no surprise that there is division over it here. But I think it may be a bit of a stretch to say that Perry's views will affect his reception at E3, since we have no idea what he is even going to be talking about. Yah, the fact that the ESA hasn't really said much about why Perry is giving the keynote isn't the best move on their part, in my view.

But consider the possibilities. Let's say he actually does have a good reason, and we just don't know it. In that case, his religious views shouldn't really be much of an issue, you agree with that it seems. The real issue would be the fact that the ESA hasn't really elaborated on the good reason Perry has to be speaking.

So let's say he doesn't have a good reason to attend. Well, in that case, he is already unqualified. His religious views don't change that. The issue is that the ESA chose someone who was completely unqualified to speak at E3, not that he also happened to be Christian who follows at least a semi-literal intepertation of the Bible.

That's why I don't understand why his beliefs are even being brought up. I see him as either qualified or unqualifed, regardless of his beliefs. Unless he makes them the subject of his speech, but I highly doubt that will be the case.

When Perry is done with his speech at E3, I expect that people will either be pleasantly surprised that he had some interesting things to say, or shaking their heads at yet another example of bland political nonsense. I doubt they will be thinking about his beliefs regarding heaven and hell.

Re: Annoyed

In the absence of an obvious o rstated good reason, it isn't unreasonable to assume political motivation. His beliefs are quite relevant in the political context.

Re: Annoyed

"His beliefs are quite relevant in the political context."

Are they? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Six_of_the_United_States_Constitution

Re: Annoyed

I pretty much agree that this article is biased, and that there are a lot of bigoted posts here.

But you know what, I don't think you christians have a right to be angry about this, or anything for that matter. You are the lucky majority of the world, and I have had enough of christians attacking my beliefs ( or lack of beliefs) then cowering behind the " We're the victims here" excuse when I critcize them for it.

There was survey in the united states, and 52% of america wouldn't vote even a well qualified Atheist for government office, that's descrimination if I've ever seen it.

Re: Annoyed

 Yes, that'll teach those people. Act just like them! That'll show 'em!

Also, let's generalize and assume every Christian is the same! That's enlightenment.

Re: Annoyed

I agree with your last statement. I myself would vote for an Atheist if I believed he/she was the best person for the job, but I'm not terribly surprised to hear that many people won't. And yes, that must be extremely frustrating for an Atheist trying to run for public office. (Actually, now that I think about it, I cannot recall an incident where I have even had the opportunity to vote for an openly Atheistic candidate, though I haven't voted in many elections yet.)

But I can't agree with your middle paragraph. I don't believe that bad behavior by people who belong to (or claim they belong to) a particular group justifies bad behavior against that group. I don't believe discrimination or bigotry is ok, as long as it's directed against a group that is majority. Also, I wouldn't really call Christians the "lucky majority of the world". We do have things fairly nice in the US at least, but there are plenty of places where Christians suffer horrible persecution.

But as I said, I believe that is besides the point. I'm not one to see what I believe to be an example of bigoted or discriminatory behavior and think to myself, "Oh, it's against Christians, or it's against white people, or it's against Americans, or it's against (insert group that is a majority or has a fair amount of power), so that makes it ok."

Re: Annoyed

I'll admit I made many bigoted statements in that third paragraph, and I appologize for that.

It's just that I'm sick and tired of the opinion I've seen among many christians I know that they are a minority and that by being a minority they somehow are immune from criticism.

Re: Annoyed

Great post MS.  You hit the nail on the head.

As a small note of encouragement to a brother, I was exactly where you are about three years ago and I now work in the industry as a designer in Austin, TX.  Breaking into the industry isn't easy, but it is possible. 

I like your confidence.  Don't ever aim low.

I'm open to helping you reach your dreams in any way I can.  If you want to get in touch, we can figure out some way to swap email addresses.

 

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker Backed Controversial Pastor's Claim that

I love this site so much. I don't care how big the outlet is, anyone with the balls to report their opinion as objectively as possible is as good as news to me these days. 

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker Backed Controversial Pastor's Claim that

I gotta say, there are days when blind faith makes me laugh, and blind faith makes me cry.

You know, in all seriousness, I don't have a problem with him speaking about his religious beliefs. It certainly doesn't mean that I don't think he's a bigot and an ass. Although I REALLY wonder just what the hell is the ESA is doing these days?

This whole Rick Perry business just reeks of other intentions............

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker Backed Controversial Pastor's Claim that

GP: "While there are surely many Christians among E3 attendess [sic], there are just as surely many who aren't. Aside from the fact that Perry was a bizarre keynote choice from the get-go, his divisive comments indicate that the ESA should rescind the offer."

Does this mean Richard Bartle can never be a keynote speaker either?  After all, Richard Bartle is an atheist, and as you've pointed out, surely many Christians will be among the E3 attendees.

Atheism snatches heaven from Christians just as surely as Christianity consigns atheists to hell.

You know, I saw Richard Bartle's keynote at the Austin Game Conference a few years back.  As always, he was brilliant, insightful, and funny. 

And I somehow managed to come away from the experience with my hope for heaven intact.

Imagine that.

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker Backed Controversial Pastor's Claim that

Everyone's all for free speech in the good ol' US of A... except when it comes to matters of religion. Seriously, if you don't agree with him then don't listen to him. How come if someone goes on an anti-religious tirade it's ok, but if it's the other way around it's not? 

Down with censorship.

Seriously...

On a side topic, whatever happened to the Old Testament believers? I'm curious when it comes to that aspect, why most of Christianity follows are re-print and change from the original context. I'm also curious why they're not Jewish, you know, like Christ was. Oh, well, as one of blasphemous heathens that post here, I just like to understand and study these things more and I've never gotten a proper answer from anyone. Yes, I have been called that by more than a few religions, usually the door-to-door ones. Now. Outside of the religion thing, I'll post what I said on Joystiq. "...They're pretty bi-partisan there, if I've got my terminology correct, they're always pretty straightforward in calling out on the mistakes and stupid things that people do when it comes to gaming. The ESA is part of the gaming community, if they do something stupid, which they have, GP and co. are gonna call them out, and that's what they did. Maybe if more details came out in the open, they wouldn't be trashed on."

Re: Seriously...

Agh. Sorry about the complete lack of spacing, do I need to use HTML now? I haven't commented since the face-lift.

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker: "Non-Christians Will Burn in Hell"

My favorite comment here is Thompson's, in which he states that Zelnick is going to hell. Jack, what gives you such a holier than thou attitude? What makes you for some reason think that you've already bought your ticket into the pearly gates? I'm sure if you do give me an answer, it won't be a logical one.

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker: "Non-Christians Will Burn in Hell"

Speaking, again, as a Christian I'm curious as to the controversy over the statement that non-Christians will be sent to Hell. Pretty much EVERY world religion has similair mandates yet those are all accepted as being ok.

Reincarnation teaches that if you're a jerk you get punished by coming back as something lower on the food chain.

Islam, Buddhism, Shinto, and many other eastern faiths have any number of hells where a sinful person is punished.

Why is it that Christianity gets the onus for this? Maybe those of us believe it are a tad more vocal than others but at least we're honest about it. The Bible says, very clearly mind you, what the punishment is for turing one's back on God. So, again, where's the controversy here?

Maybe it's divisive but would you rather Christians lie about what they believe? At least in talking about it a dialogue is opened. You might not like what they have to say, but they have right to both say it and believe it.

That being said, maybe E3 isn't the place for someone to make that speach, maybe it is. It's up to those who invited Gov. Perry to decide. At the very least it'll be interesting to see what happens.

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker: "Non-Christians Will Burn in Hell"

Hmmm, you're curious as to why Goobernor Perry's comment causes controversy?

Do you not know that the various Eastern religions such as Buddhism, Shintoism, Hinduism, Confucianism, et cetera, as well as Native American religions and many other religions do NOT condemn people to a hell if they don't believe as they believe?

However, for some privileged reason by way of delusion, your own religion DOES condemn to hell anyone who disagrees with them.  How's THAT for juvenile - even infantile - behavior?

There's no Golden Rule embodied in your belief that of everyone on Earth you are the only people who know what's right.  Totally narcissistic, and sociopathic, your religion is.  It's a barbaric and even primitive way of seeing the world and shows a total lack of moral decency or sophistication.

It's no wonder Christianity has always been a religion of conquest and domination.  It's your hyperaggressive underlying belief system.  Take a look in your religious mirror.  Evolve for a change.  You are not chosen or superior or by any means correct.  You're living in a mentally inbred fantasy world.  No offense intended or implied.

Only a primitive and barbaric religion would say everybody ELSE is wrong, and WE are right.  Christianity fits that description; not the only one, but the only one that is the topic here in this thread, and the only one beating up a good part of the world militarily at the moment.

So, still curious as to why the controversy?  Then, you are too blinded by your own religion to see the odious false sanctimony of your own faith.  Not that there's anything wrong with that!

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker: "Non-Christians Will Burn in Hell"

"Only a primitive and barbaric religion would say everybody ELSE is wrong, and WE are right."

I just had to laugh at this comment. It's quite hilarious, in an absurd way.

Religions deal with matters that involve facts and absolute truths. I know people act like this isn't the case, but think about it logicially for a second. If God exists, he exists. If God doesn't exist, he doesn't. A person's own particular beliefs will not change that, will not alter reality.

Bob is an atheist, and he says God does not exist.

Jim is a Christian, and he says God does exist. He also says Jesus is the son of God.

Jill is a Muslim, and she says God exists. She says that Jesus was not the son of God, but a prophet who was misunderstood by Christians.

Explain to me how it is possible for all 3 views to be right. It's not. Obviously, either they are all wrong, or only one of them is right.

It's only natural that people think that beliefs that directly contradict their own are wrong. Because it's kind of impossible for them to both be true. I'll say it again: two contradictory statements cannot both be true.

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker: "Non-Christians Will Burn in Hell"

The punishment of Hell isn't about something as banal as a disagreement. That's a massive misunderstanding of the situation.

(For those of you who don't know me, yes I am a Christian. Fairly fundamentalist in that I do believe the Bible to be true, I don't want to force you into anything so please no accusations on that front)

Christianity teaches that God, being Holy and Just, sent Christ to die in place our place, effectively taking judgement on Himself so we wouldn't have to face it. The only proviso here is that you have to repent of your sins and accept Christ as Lord and Saviour. We're taught that if a person refuses this choice, or chooses not to accept Christ. Then God's judgement will fall upon them and the Bible is very clear about where one's soul will end up as punishment for disobedience.

It's like breaking the law and then claiming that you're only being punished because you disagreed with something. It's an arguement that doesn't follow.

*Sorry Dennis, I probably shouldn't have said anything but I needed to set the record straight here*

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker: "Non-Christians Will Burn in Hell"

"It's like breaking the law and then claiming that you're only being punished because you disagreed with something. It's an arguement that doesn't follow."

I'm sorry but it absolutely nothing like that.  I know of no "real" law that says I must remember the Sabbath and keep it holy or that a child must honor an abusive parent, so I'll never "repent" for either of those "sins"...

And don't get me started and the just plain silliness of judgement...  If "God" is omnipotent, omniscient, the creator of the whole get-go then surely he knows exactly what I will and will not do with my life before I'm even born, free will or not.  God couldn't be timebound, he created time.  Which also begs the question of "end times and the battle of good and evil". Why?  God's version of reality TV.  He created evil, if he wants he can just uncreate it...

I'm beginning to babble so I'll stop.  The whole problem with religion, any religion, is that it requires one to quit using rational thought and accept ridiculous inconsistencies...

Mack

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker: "Non-Christians Will Burn in Hell"

I think you missed his point.  I don't think he's claiming that real laws and spiritual laws are the same.

I personally think of spiritual laws as more like the law of gravity.  Choosing to isolate yourself from God and to act in unloving ways toward others (Jesus said that all spiritual laws could be summed up in loving God with your whole heart, mind, soul, and strength and loving others as you love yourself) has consequences.

It isn't about punishment at this point.  It is more like we've all already jumped off a skyscraper and are speeding toward the ground below.  To the Christian, saying that you are going to hell is akin to pointing out the fact that you are on your way to a painful meeting with the ground below.  The reason they point this out is that they want to extend Jesus to you as a parachute.  For the Christian, this isn't about intolerance, but about proclaiming what they believe to be true for the benefit of any who wish to listen.  If they did not sincerely believe it, they would not risk opening themselves up to the inevitable criticism and charges of bigotry.  (What?!?  How dare you imply that I'm going to hit the ground and that it will be painful?  What are you?  Some kind of sicko?!?)  But since they do believe it, they are willing to risk hazzards in order to present what they believe will be salvation to others. 

As to the silliness of judgement and God knowing exactly what you will and will not do with your life before you are even born, free will or not...have you considered that your life might not be so much about revealing you to God (as you said, He already knows), but more about reavealing you to yourself, and then revealing God to you? 

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker: "Non-Christians Will Burn in Hell"

Well, since my comment was eaten, I'll repeat myself

Honestly, I don't care where my afterlife is as long as I'm with those I care about in this life. To me, that's my personal heaven.

And I personally don't believe I need to swear allegiance or worship anyone to get there

-kurisu7885

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker: "Non-Christians Will Burn in Hell"

So... if I don't believe in this imaginary god, I get sent to an imaginary place that I don't think exists?

As threats go, this isn't really the scariest. Next they'll be telling me the monster under my bed will eat me if I don't finish my vegetables.... :)

Seriously. I love America, you're great people, but some of your guys are just kind of nuts on this whole blind faith/religion thing.

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker: "Liberals Will Burn in Hell"

So this really doesn't come as a suprise. With the head being a GOP mouthpiece the ECA will eventually be damned close to the orgs it used to oppose.

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker: "Non-Christians Will Burn in Hell"

"While there are surely many Christians among E3 attendess, there are just as surely many who aren't."

Yeah, that was a sloppy generalization, Dennis (assuming you authored the article and assuming you were suggesting that other Christians would condone Perry attendance). Every belief-system has nutty radicals, Christianity included.

That said, I don't want to hear this fanatic at E3, or any politician for that matter as the keynote speaker. Talk about a downward spiral.

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker: "Non-Christians Will Burn in Hell"

"That said, I don't want to hear this fanatic at E3"

Believing the fundamental tenets of your religion doesn't make you a fanatic. Neither does stating them when you're asked about them by a reporter.

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker: "Non-Christians Will Burn in Hell"

These comments really make me laugh. I love how convienient it is for christianity to be a moving target. It really solidifies for me how much BS it really is.

Lately christianity seems to mean "we subscribe to whatever makes the non-theist wrong" doctrine. Comical.

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker: "Non-Christians Will Burn in Hell"

That's a pretty blithe comment coming from someone who hasn't shared his own beliefs at all.  I suppose that's one way to ensure your beliefs never become a target of close scrutiny at all, let alone a moving target.

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker: "Non-Christians Will Burn in Hell"

Okay, so he's a christian and thinks I should burn in hell. I can accept that. Frankly, I wish him the same pleasure.

What I simply fail to understand, is this man's relevance to gaming, gaming media or their proponents. I would be happy if GP could clarify, though the onus is not on them. I expect fair reasoning from the ESA as to why they feel we should be subjected to this man at E3. 

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker: "Non-Christians Will Burn in Hell"

According to Joystiq:

"Texas actually has a large development community (particularly in the MMO space) and even supports the industry with financial incentives."

and

"Perry...defeated an anti-gaming gubernatorial candidate during the last election who sought to place a 50% tax on violent video games."

GP is not likely to clarify this, since they are owned by the ECA, a direct competitor to the ESA.

I, for one, am happy to see a mainstream figure that the media will take seriously as the keynote speaker.  I think the industry has tended to be a bit too insular in the past, and we are paying for it in the legislative attempts that keep popping up. 

Politicians propose legislation because they believe it will help them with their constituents.  That these constituents still see gaming as the domain of prepubescent boys with violent wish fulfillment fantasies speaks to the failure of the gaming industry to connect with the mainstream in the past.  I see keynotes like this one as attempting to address this shortcoming.

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker: "Non-Christians Will Burn in Hell"

Actually I'd imagine that GP isn't reporting on that because it's speculation on Joystiq's part that those are the ESA's reasons. That's not the same thing as them actually being ESA's reasons.

 

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker: "Non-Christians Will Burn in Hell"

Actually it's a common misconception that Christians want people to go to Hell. The vast majority just want people to be aware of what the Bible teaces on this subject. Most Christians actually want people to go to Heaven, hence the warnings of what's to come and all.

I can only speak for myself and my experiences on this matter but the above has been my experience for the most part.

 

 

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker: "Non-Christians Will Burn in Hell"

Anyone remember when computer games used to be about shooting stuff on a TV screen?

I miss those days.

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker: "Non-Christians Will Burn in Hell"

@GP

Ok I just have to say I'm a little dissapointed to find this story here. Yes I see the connection to videogames, but it is a fairly flimsy connection (the guy that the ESA is having do keynote at E3 agreed with a guy who said...).

If the comment had been about gaming, gamers etc. it would ahve made more sense for me to see this here. But the beliefs of the keynote speaker at E3 really have nothing to do with E3 unless that's what he's talking about there.

And please take note, I myself am insulted by the statement since I am not Christian, technically i was raised Mormon but I chose to stop identifying with that religion once I got older and actually learned what they were trying to preach. I am now Wiccan and thus fall in the "going to hell" catagorey.

Yes it's a stupid statement, I just don't think it really fits into videogame news.

At any rate not my site, and I love the site so thank you for reporting it anyway.

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker: "Non-Christians Will Burn in Hell"

Tis the zippy once again

 

GP likes his scandalous type articles now and then :P

 

But it  is quite silly to dis the man for stating the norm of his religion, I mean “hell” is for the “believers” after all (heheeh read into that all you can, but it really means non believers do not believe thus hell to them is nothing) , I been wanting to read more on the wiccan religion know any good info sites? ^^

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker: "Non-Christians Will Burn in Hell"

Best way to learn about Wicca is simply to ask Zippy.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker: "Non-Christians Will Burn in Hell"

Info... well depends. Wiccan is kind of not like most other religions. It's a very free form religion. There is no right or wrong belief, it's more based in what you yourself believe to be true. Some follow monotheistic views, others polytheistic.

Pretty much the only thing that is usually believed by all is the Wiccan Rede, google that and you should get something along the lines of:

An it harm none, do what ye will.

Basically, as long as it hurts no one and nothing (all life is sacred) do whatever you like. This includes harming yourself or others, though often exceptions can be made if it's done for good reason (hurting one person who is trying to kill another in order to stop them would be an example).

People often confuse it with the belief of 3, whatever you do comes back to you times three. While they are two different beliefs the reasoning is the same. You're actions ultimatly come back to you, doing good will bring good to you, doing bad will bring bad. Karma, she's a cruel and sometimes mysterious mistress.

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker: "Non-Christians Will Burn in Hell"

"There is no right or wrong belief, it's more based in what you yourself believe to be true."

I'm confused.  If there is no right or wrong belief, then Perry's belief that non-Christians are going to hell couldn't be a wrong belief could it?  Of course, it couldn't be a right belief either. 

Yet, somehow, it is a stupid and insulting belief? 

We've established that it isn't stupid and insulting because it is wrong, so I'm confused as to what else would make it stupid and insulting.  Because it is intolerant?  But that would assume that intolerance was wrong wouldn't it?  And even if I believed that intolerance was wrong, obviously my belief (in addition to possibly being intolerant) couldn't be right...or wrong.  Right?  (Well, obviously not, but...???)

Re: E3 Keynote Speaker: "Non-Christians Will Burn in Hell"

"There is no right or wrong belief, it's more based in what you yourself believe to be true."

Someone had asked for info on the Wiccan belief system, Iw asn't referring to the man's comments anymore. Wiccan is not a defined belief system, it's different things to different people, but can be identified by certain MOSTLY universal things, such as the Wiccan Rede or the rule of 3.

 

I know you seem to be just playing devil's advocate just saying what you read wasn't what I meant.

 
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Andrew EisenThat doesn't mean there has to be a movie though. Having said that, I've no doubt that we will eventually get a Black Panther movie. But Stan Lee will probably learn about it around the same time you and I do.09/02/2014 - 2:34pm
MaskedPixelanteWell they have to get to him eventually. Captain America's shield didn't grow on a tree, the minerals to make it had to come from somewhere, and that somewhere is Wakanda.09/02/2014 - 2:31pm
E. Zachary KnightYes, but it has never been confirmed as in development, or even pre-production.09/02/2014 - 2:21pm
MaskedPixelanteBlack Panther's been on the short list for a while.09/02/2014 - 2:18pm
E. Zachary KnightIt is possible that Stan Lee mispoke. I don't think he knows everything Marvel movies. But it is a sweet idea if true.09/02/2014 - 2:04pm
Andrew EisenSo says Stan Lee who almost certainly wouldn't know.09/02/2014 - 2:04pm
MaskedPixelantehttp://www.cinemablend.com/new/Marvel-Black-Panther-Movie-Confirmed-By-Stan-Lee-66993.html Black Panther is apparently getting a movie. And maybe one for Black Widow, even though I think it's too late for her.09/02/2014 - 1:53pm
Cheater87Look what FINALLY came to Australia uncut! http://www.gamespot.com/articles/left-4-dead-2-gets-reclassified-in-australia/1100-6422038/09/02/2014 - 6:49am
Andrew EisenHence the "Uh, yeah. Obviously."09/02/2014 - 12:53am
SleakerI think Nintendo has proven over the last 2 years that it doesn't.09/02/2014 - 12:31am
Andrew EisenSleaker - Uh, yeah. Obviously.09/01/2014 - 8:20pm
Sleaker@AE - exclusives do not a console business make.09/01/2014 - 8:03pm
Papa MidnightI find it disappointing that, despite the presence of a snopes article and multiple articles countering it, people are still spreading a fake news story about a "SWATter" being sentenced to X (because the number seems to keep changing) years in prison.09/01/2014 - 5:08pm
Papa MidnightAnd resulting in PC gaming continuing to be held back by developer habits09/01/2014 - 5:07pm
Papa MidnightI find it disappointing that the current gen of consoles is representative of 2009-2010 in PC gaming, and will be the bar by which games are released over the next 8 years - resulting in more years of poor PC ports (if they're ever ported)09/01/2014 - 5:06pm
Andrew EisenMeanwhile, 6 of Wii U's top 12 are exclusive: Mario 3D World, Nintendo Land, Pikmin 3, Mario Kart 8, Wonderful 101, and ZombiU. (Wind Waker HD is on the list too but I didn't count it.)09/01/2014 - 4:36pm
Andrew EisenLikewise, only two of Xbox One's top 12 are exclusive: Dead Rising 3 and Ryse: Son of Rome (if you ignore a PC release later this year).09/01/2014 - 4:34pm
Andrew EisenNot to disrespect the current gen of consoles but I find it telling that of the "12 Best Games For The PS4" (per Kotaku), only two are exclusive to the system: Infamous: Second Son and Resogun.09/01/2014 - 4:30pm
MaskedPixelantehttp://www.joystiq.com/2014/09/01/beyond-two-souls-ps4-trophies-emerge-directors-cut-reported/ MMM MMM, nothing quire like reheated last gen games to make you appreciate the 400 bucks you spent on a new console.09/01/2014 - 4:24pm
Andrew EisenThat's actually a super depressing thought, that a bunch of retweeters are taking that pic as an illustration of the actual issue instead of an example of a complete misunderstanding of it.09/01/2014 - 4:20pm
 

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