Game Violence Researcher Rips Grand Theft Childhood Book
Game Violence Researcher Rips Grand Theft Childhood Book
June 30, 2008
While Lawrence Kutner and Cheryl Olson's recent book Grand Theft Childhood has given cheer to video gamers (and the video game industry), a longtime media violence researcher strongly disagrees with the authors' conclusion that violent games aren't all that bad for younger players.
In an op-ed for the Detroit Free Press, University of Michigan professor Brad Bushman writes:
Kutner and Olson’s advice to parents is particulary puzzling since their own data suggest that such games are linked to aggressive behavior... Although laboratory experiments can be used to establish cause-effect relationships, they quickly dismiss most lab studies as artificial and invalid.
I strongly disagree. Consider a laboratory experiment I recently conducted... Boys about 14 years old were randomly assigned to play a violent or nonviolent video game for 20 minutes... Next, they completed a noise blast task, with the winner blasting the loser with a noise...
The boys were told that inflicting higher noise levels could cause “permanent hearing damage” to their partners... These boys were even willing to give another boy noise levels loud enough to cause permanent hearing damage...
Violent video games are not the only risk factor for aggression, or even the most important factor, but they are definitely not a trivial factor...
Bushman was among the authors of the American Psychological Association's 2005 resolution which held that there is an increase in aggression following violent video game play. Bushman also participated in a 2007 study which found correlation between violent Biblical passages and aggression. He is also one of controversial Miami attorney Jack Thompson's expert witnesses in an Alabama lawsuit alleging that an 18-year-old's murder of two police officers and a dispatcher was motivated by playing Grand Theft Auto.
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Posted 08/29/08 at 03:21pm
ZippyDSMlee: Dark Sovereign: because they are hurt/disabled and can't drink yet, I know lower the drinking age!! Make im real adults. :P
ZippyDSMlee: Dark Sovereign: because they are hurt/disabled and can't drink yet, I know lower the drinking age!! Make im real adults. :P
Posted 08/29/08 at 02:50pm
Dark Sovereign: I have one question: Why are soldiers constantly treated as victims and children?
Dark Sovereign: I have one question: Why are soldiers constantly treated as victims and children?
Posted 08/29/08 at 02:45pm
Dark Sovereign: @thefremen: Glad to see you haven't left the past yet. I'll wait until you're in 2008.
Dark Sovereign: @thefremen: Glad to see you haven't left the past yet. I'll wait until you're in 2008.
Posted 08/29/08 at 02:18pm
Meggie: *doing
Meggie: *doing
Posted 08/29/08 at 02:17pm
Meggie: Dr. Phil is going an Everquest addiction episode, this a repeat?
Meggie: Dr. Phil is going an Everquest addiction episode, this a repeat?
Posted 08/29/08 at 10:52am
ZippyDSMlee: feeman:DS is saying goverment would exspand more if the duims get in, he's probly right.
ZippyDSMlee: feeman:DS is saying goverment would exspand more if the duims get in, he's probly right.
Posted 08/29/08 at 10:51am
thefremen: LOL, yes, the government has not expanded at all in the last 8 years, especially not for the benefit of corporate entities.
thefremen: LOL, yes, the government has not expanded at all in the last 8 years, especially not for the benefit of corporate entities.
Posted 08/29/08 at 10:51am
thefremen: LOL, yes, the government has not expanded at all in the last 8 years, especially not for the benefit of corporate entities.
thefremen: LOL, yes, the government has not expanded at all in the last 8 years, especially not for the benefit of corporate entities.
Posted 08/29/08 at 10:43am
ZippyDSMlee: DS- http://forums.theeca.com/showthread.php?p=84679#post84679 In OT BTW
ZippyDSMlee: DS- http://forums.theeca.com/showthread.php?p=84679#post84679 In OT BTW
Posted 08/29/08 at 10:32am
ZippyDSMlee: Dark Sovereign: Sure ^^
ZippyDSMlee: Dark Sovereign: Sure ^^
Posted 08/29/08 at 10:29am
Dark Sovereign: @zip: Make the thread. I'm just not active there.
Dark Sovereign: @zip: Make the thread. I'm just not active there.
Posted 08/29/08 at 10:28am
SimonBob: Heh, I was just playing with the semantics for my own amusement, not trying to shoehorn my way into the argument.
SimonBob: Heh, I was just playing with the semantics for my own amusement, not trying to shoehorn my way into the argument.
Posted 08/29/08 at 10:28am
ZippyDSMlee: Dark Sovereign: Iwish you would join the forums so we can have a full conversation these shouts are stifling!
ZippyDSMlee: Dark Sovereign: Iwish you would join the forums so we can have a full conversation these shouts are stifling!
Posted 08/29/08 at 10:27am
ZippyDSMlee: Dark Sovereign:force them into the wilderness to die off...this is the reality of not taking into account what to do with the lower classes.
ZippyDSMlee: Dark Sovereign:force them into the wilderness to die off...this is the reality of not taking into account what to do with the lower classes.
Posted 08/29/08 at 10:26am
Dark Sovereign: @zip: What are you talking about? Less government means less taxes. Less taxes means more money in average Joe's pockets.
Dark Sovereign: @zip: What are you talking about? Less government means less taxes. Less taxes means more money in average Joe's pockets.
Posted 08/29/08 at 10:26am
ZippyDSMlee: Dark Sovereign: you DO realize there were roving shanty towns and poor hosues before social secuty was started? they were hives for poverty and disease,hell with todays "cleanliness" in housing code you can not have them anymore and states will just forc
ZippyDSMlee: Dark Sovereign: you DO realize there were roving shanty towns and poor hosues before social secuty was started? they were hives for poverty and disease,hell with todays "cleanliness" in housing code you can not have them anymore and states will just forc
Posted 08/29/08 at 10:22am
ZippyDSMlee: Dark Sovereign: noobies and their silly definition ^_~, but I ahve to ask how do you keep millions off the streets, taking twice as much money from states without social security and health care?
ZippyDSMlee: Dark Sovereign: noobies and their silly definition ^_~, but I ahve to ask how do you keep millions off the streets, taking twice as much money from states without social security and health care?
Posted 08/29/08 at 10:22am
Dark Sovereign: You ASSUME that not giving tons of handouts to people will make them poor. America itself shows you are wrong.
Dark Sovereign: You ASSUME that not giving tons of handouts to people will make them poor. America itself shows you are wrong.
Posted 08/29/08 at 10:17am
Dark Sovereign: Fascism involves ever-expanding government. I just argued the exact opposite.
Dark Sovereign: Fascism involves ever-expanding government. I just argued the exact opposite.
Posted 08/29/08 at 10:17am
Dark Sovereign: Do either of you have any idea what "fascism" or totalitarianism IS? You aren't showing it.
Dark Sovereign: Do either of you have any idea what "fascism" or totalitarianism IS? You aren't showing it.
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Comments
The problem with all these "studies" is that they only test short term.
Of course things effect you short term.
A guy gets in an argument with his wife in the morning, he's more likely to cut off a guy in traffic on the way to work that day.
It doesn't mean he's more likely to do it the day after, and every other day for the rest of his life.
To say games make people more violent long term is like saying if someones blood sugar is high after eating 20 Pixie Sticks, then they will be diabetic for the rest of their life.
Is that test a variation of an old psycological test about evil made years ago in what a person gives electroshocks to another one if he or she gives a wrong answer, even if they knew a strong shock would cause his/her death?
I thouht that kind of tests were banned.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The cynical side of videogames (spanish only): http://thelostlevel.blogspot.com/
I think you might be referring to Stanley Milgram's experiments.
That one, I just couldn´t remember its name.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The cynical side of videogames (spanish only): http://thelostlevel.blogspot.com/
Aw, poor baby! Is your little baffoonish study that makes no intelligent sense whatsoever being dismissed? Aw!
Maybe you could do one on how dogs making loud noises will make airplanes fall out of the sky next.
I'm sure it will be epic... in your own mind.
Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl
I remember that "study". It was so fundamentally flawed that calling it a "study" is being gracious. It was more like "High School Freshman BS Science Project I came up with to play videogames for homework".
Brad Bushman - Wanker.
~You Could Be Mine, But You're Way Out Of Line..~
Could it bet that teenage boys being teenage boys will play pratical jokes on each other. So whether or not they played violent video games or not during the study, I'll bet they still would have blasted the others with a much louder blast than required. At 14yo all of my friends would have done the same thing too. Oops, that would have been blamed on Pong or whatever simple game was out at that time.
Huh:
He is also one of controversial Miami attorney Jack Thompson's expert witnesses in an Alabama lawsuit alleging that an 18-year-old's murder of two police officers and a dispatcher was motivated by playing Grand Theft Auto.
So much for his credentials. :P
what's wrong brad? are you getting a little bit of a JT syndrome there?
Wasn't that laboratory experiment of his the one where a fraction of a second increase in duration was taken as evidence of an increase in agression? Or am I thinking of a different one?
Either way, just by what was written in the article, I wouldn't give his experiment much credit. He makes it out as all shocking that those boys were willing to possibly cause hearing damage, yet ignores the fact that he was the one telling to do it as part of the study, so of course they'd be willing.
-Gray17
Not to side with Bushman, but the excerpt is unfair. The original article indicates the the boys who played violent video games were willing to use damaging noise blasts, but the excerpt is edits this portion out making it seem like all the boys were going to damaging levels.
Except that once again, Asshat Bushman conveniently 'forgets' (for the sake of his professional reputation) that the noise blast is easily associated with the game (not video game) the kids were playing. The primate/mammalian 'play' mentality sometimes is violent. We wrestle each other, etc. But it's up to parents to monitor such play, and draw the line before it goes too far - thus teaching kids restraint.
It always come back to parenting, which really just a series of teaching moments. Yes, if you let the video game console teach your kids their life lessons, that is an issue. But to pretend that parenting isn't more important than video games on a developing kid's psyche is just absurd. And when you get into the realm of absurd, you get to testify on Jack Thompsons behalf.
~~All Knowledge is Worth Having~~
Yeah, I definetly become more violent when playing games. For instance, when I was trying to do the stupid remote control vehical missions in Vice City and San Andreas I became very violent. Of course, this was due to frustration. I think that any of these studies is marred by the fact that...video games are hard. And frustrating. And when we are frustrated, most of us take it out on those around us. Anyone remember telling their sibling "you made me die" when they were playing super mario brothers on the NES? So yeah, kids, especially boys, will act more agressivly after playing video games. But no study can show that violence lasting over the course days, much less weeks or years.
Apparently this guy never heard of the old experiments where the researcher told the person to press a button to shock somebody in another room, with lethal doses of electricity. It's all based on authority, and kids would probably listen to a researcher much more than their parents.
I can't remember the name of the experiment, but I'm sure its easy to find on Wikipedia.
I'm reading Grand Theft Childhood during my commute right now. I'm in chapter 3 or 4 at the moment and the book has already managed to ridicule research that makes conclusions on how long someone blasts an airhorn after violent video game play half a dozen times.
Me thinks this whole thing is much more about sour grapes than anything else.
His comment about Kutner and Olson's data linking violent video game play to aggressive behavior is a classic out-of-context quote. He conveniently omits to mention that NOT playing video games at all is also linked to aggressive behavior based on Kutner's and Olson's research.
Even more to the point he (purposedly?) muddles the distinction between short term aggressive behavior (e.g. over-excited kids) and long term aggressive behavior.
And finally he's using a word "linked" implying "causation". He knows full well that the link can be in either direction, e.g. already aggressive children seek out violent video games or playing violent video games caused kids to become more violent, but chooses to not specifically mention that. The reader is left with an assumption that the link is of the latter kind (video games cause violent behavior).
No wonder Kutner and Olson wrote extensively about how inadequate and misleading the existing research is.
-- http://pixelantes.blogspot.com/
Brad Bushman is correct in noting that the authors' own data rebuts their conclusions.
I'm off to Utah to be with people who understand there is such a thing as truth. Dennis McCauley, on the other hand, is stuck in Philadelphia where the youth crime rate is soaring in part because of video game play. Poor guy, he hears the gun fire and thinks its just the Fourth of July all year round. Duh.
Jack Thompson, Attorney and You're Not
Are you REALLY Jack Thompson, or just an impersonator? Who cares, either way you're a complete troll.
And have you yet proved that crime is up in Philadelphia or any other city for that matter because of video games? You haven't? Then kindly shut the hell up until you do sweetheart.
Truth, huh? Isn't lying partly what got you into this whole disbarment thing in the first place?
I think the word you're looking for is "truthiness."
I wonder if JT will still get awards like this one after the disbarment is official. I kinda doubt it.
Jack Wessels, Intelligent Human Being and You're Not
You might want to fix your last line Mr. Thompson. It should read:
Jack Thompson, Nearly Finished Attorney
Yeah, I'm afraid it's Jack alright. There's no mistaking that smug arrogance. Looks like he somehow got around the ban as evidenced by the absence of "/" in his posts.
Yeah, Jack, enjoy your time with the sheeple and your fellow douchebag Glenn Beck. I wonder though how they'd feel when they hear you're about to be disbarred?
Me, I'll be celebrating my freedom shooting off fireworks in my backyard (which are probably illegal anyway). Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Black Manta, Friend to Porn Stars and You're Not.
Brad Bushman also rips your religion Jack. Think about that! Oh, I forgot! Religion frees you of all thought.
岩「…Ace beats Jack」
Here in UTAH Jack, The only ones who believe you're lies to be truth are the ones with their fingers stuck in their ears signing hymns as loud as they can.
Most of us aren't the backwards fools some would take us for.
The light of knowlegde will illuminate the darkest of thoughts & zealots, like yourself, have been on the decline since the 16th century.
We will not let hate and fear control our lives.
I think you should look up the Milgram Experament and the Stanford Prison Experament as well.
I'm calling bull**** on this wannabe. No attorney uses the word "duh", not even a deranged egotistical one.
You must be new here. Welcome. And yes that really is Jack if you are wondering. He uses phrases like that all the time, even in his legal documents. If you don't believe me look for Jack's "Children's book for adults".
Jack,
Weren't you just crying to Judge Tunis (yet again) that all of these court appearances meant you couldn't spend time with your sick wife, yet here you are rushing off all the way across the country to get some meaningless award? Where the hell are you priorities, man? Or were you just trying to gain sympathy from the court (yet again)?
You're a sham, Thompson.
"Boys about 14 years old were randomly assigned to play a violent or nonviolent video game for 20 minutes..."
WOW. 20 MINUTES.
Sorry for the all caps, but its just... wow. This is beyond stupid. How about you prove an effect that lasts over a DAY. ONE SINGLE DAY. Then you might actually take half a baby step towards what you're trying to achieve.
I'm thinking this guy never heard of the Milgram Experament or the Stanford Prison Experament.
Oh my god, those horrible evil boys were willing to cause hearing damage!!!
I guess the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
Wasn't on your curriculum?
The majority of people will cause horrible pain and or death to other innocent human beigns if an authority figure such as a guy in a lab coat tells them to do it...
This experiment was perfomed before any video games ever existed so to this researcher.
Shut the hell up, obviously those kids did what you told them since kids are more easily convinced to do something then the adults in the experiment that I mentioned...
Please don't tell me he's using the Milgram Experiment as violent video game proof?!? Cause thats how it reads to me.
Either he is very stupid, or he thinks we are. I am very tempted to email him and lambast him!
14 year olds are smart enough, or at least think they're smart enough, to realise that there's no way in hell they would be given something that could cause permenant damage and then be told it could.
Wait. This guy subjected kids to POTENTIAL HEARING LOSS for the sake of a STUDY? Honestly here, what an absolute douchebag. Maybe the authorities should be called for child abuse here. (And I'm being serious on that.)
Basically, person who has staked his name on claims that video game violence causes aggression disagrees with people who says they don't. He bases his claims by saying that his study shows they do. How about a control group that didn't play video games? Was that in there? What kind of non-violent game? A frustrating non-violent game?
Let's see how those kids react to Brain Age:
Blue.
B-lue.
BLUE!
BA-LOOOO!!!
That's it, I'm takin' this other mutha's hearing OUT!
His scientific study is flawed in so many ways, his right to have his public statements taken seriously should be revoked.
I bet in these studies they make them play CoD4 at the highest difficulty with a broken mouse.. that would sure increase aggression :P
This guy has co-authored at least a dozen papers with Craig Anderson. That automatically makes me discount anything he says. Craig Anderson has never met a form of media that he didn't think caused "agression" and yet he has never (as far as I've read) bothered to define what he means by agression.
http://www.popularculturegaming.com
those kids probly knew he was just bluffing and he wouldnt dare make them lose their hearing
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