Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA IV

July 11, 2008 -

Watchdog group the Parents Television Council has issued a "entertainment alert" condemning Grand Theft Auto IV as well as the CBS TV series Swingtown.

PTC president Tim Winter narrates:

Unfortunately, sex and violence often go together in today's media environment. That's especially true for many of the violent video games that are now flooding the marketplace. Topping them all for worst content is Grand Theft Auto. 

 

In the latest edition of, the player is a thug who gets points for having sex with prostitutes, running over pedestrians and even shooting police officers. And our research shows that many chidlren are able to buy this adult-rated video game far too easily. That's because the retailers don't have any consequenced for abiding by their own rules. We're asking major retailers to not carry this sick game at all...

 

You can also write Congress to ask them to pass the Video Games Rating Enforcement Act which will give teeth to the current ratings system.

Via: GameArgus

GP: Thanks to Matt Paprocki for the heads-up!


Comments

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

I'm all for freedom of ttnet vitamin speech and allowing rent a car game makers to put whatever they want in games, but there's one thing about this app that has me scratching my head.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but from araç kiralama the previous article araba kiralama on this I gathered that players can use Google maps in-game to find the other (real-life?) dealers in their area.  If this is the case, has travesti anyone considered what's stopping someone from using this app to actually move drugs between hands for reals?

But majority araba kiralama of their outrage araç kiralama stems from what it could DO TO children, not the content itself.  Talk to one of these people and you'll find they don't think any books kiralık araba should be banned from children.  Mention American Psycho and they talk about kiralık araç the redeeming value of using imagination to construct a story.  Reading, no matter what the content, is largely viewed as a consequenceless activity for people of any age.  The reason why I mention American Psycho is because of the content itself.  Gaming never has and likely never will have any scenes where someone has sex with a severed head.  Not gonna happen.  Yet despite this, they'll fight tooth and nail to protect their children from two boys kissing in Bully but whatever they read is harmless... yeah.

The entire arguement is kiralık oto based upon a social normality inflicted by luddites who can't figure out the controls for Halo so it's frightening and terrifying and obviously the cause of youth violence on the rise even though, in reality, it's in decline (which is actually a HUGE suprise given minibüs kiralama the economies status).  In  a perfect world, we would have parents that actually parent.  The idea of sales restrictions on media on oto kiralama any form to accomidate parental unwillingness to get involved with their child's life is the real problem to me.  Here I am, 32 years old, and being held up at a self-scan rent a car needing to show ID before I can buy a $10 M rated game all because Soccer Momthra can't be bothered to look at the crap Billy Genericallystupidson does in his free time.  It's too hard for her, so I have to suffer?

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

oh my gawd, im just sick of all these lies that are meant to bring gta 4 down. its not like a ten year old is going to play the game and say "hey! i just ran someone over in this game! i think ill go down town and  buy drugs from a crack dealer!" when i played gta 4 ill admit, i ran over a few people (its hard not to). but i didn't get points. you know what i got? arested, and later killed. and the game actually condems you for doing up hookers. and that can't be said for many open world games. and way is all the hate on video games anyway? what about t.v, music, and movies?

ugh.. you know what? just forget it.

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

I cannot remember the last game that had points in it.
Must've been sometime sooner than I think, but eh.

Points.

Haha.

I love how everyone is so out of touch with technology today.

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

Somebody needs to grow some balls.

It's not like 10 year olds kids are going to be getting into GTA4. And if they are, then the parents are to blame for not being proactive in what their kid plays.

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

I couldn't find a direct link to contact info, but there's a page to look up local chapters of the PTC. I got the address for the head of the chapter around here and sent an email offering polite corrections and criticism.

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

Huh...I went to their site just to use their form to make it easier to send a message reqesting my representatives condemn or ignore this new unconstitutional attempt.  They make it easier to send to the right representatives just by address (mine constantly changes), as do many political sites, and I thought their resources ought to at least do some good being abused in this manner.

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

Okay first off, No you do NOT get points for Having sex with prostitutes and running over pedestrians or killing cops, quite making shit up to try and sound like you know what yur talking about. Yeah Grand Theft Auto 4 is a MATURE rated game (mature means 18 and up so no kids can go in and buy it) Thats why theres a big 'M' on the bottom left hand corner of the case. Yes we all know this game is bad and lets you kill things, but thats why its rated 'M' Nobody under 18 years of age can go in and buy it, They must have a parent or guardian there with them to approve of it. So why are people against Grand Theft Auto 4? Of course it isnt cuddle bears 7 the attack of love, but Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, etc. have to appeal to all audiences, if you had your way then game designers would LOSE money, not make LOSE and if they were to LOSE money, then they would have to shut down, and if they shut down then there wouldnt be ANY games at ALL. Video games are for entertainment purposes only and i for one would have already died of boredom if video games were never made. Alright? Do you understand me? Its people like your organization and Jack Thompson that just will never understand this, So let me try and simple it down...VIDEO GAMES ARE FOR ENTERTAIN PURPOSES ONLY! EVERY VIDEO GAME HAS A RATING OF WHICH AUDIENCE (CHILDREN, TEENAGERS, OR ADULTS) ARE RECCOMENDED TO PLAY, EVERY PARENT THAT KNOWS WHAT A VIDEO GAME IS KNOWS WHAT THE RATING SYSTEM IS! So with that said, quit complaining about how this game is violent, and even more important, Quit making things up!

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

I wonder if they could explain to me how to get "points for having sex with prostitutes, running over pedestrians and even shooting police officers".  I've been playing for a while now and I have yet to get a single point for doing any of these things.  In fact, running over pedestrians and shooting police officers gets me hunted down and I often lose the mission and have to start over if I do that stuff.  Maybe the Parents Television Council are playing a hacked version of the game, because things work very differently in my version of Liberty City.

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

Uhh... the game's been out for almost two months, right?  What were these people doing when everyone else was on the GTA IV kill-wagon?  Wailing about how Pong increases obesity in young puppies?

Talk about ineptitude, in both their ability to say something meaningful as well as in their goals ("We ask that retailers NOT sell this game" [that is making them millions of dollars and is helping to further the video game industry as an economic giant.]).

Riiiight...

Re: Parents Trash Cult Issues False Accusations on GTA

The PTC has no credibility, as they had to pay Vince McMahon $3.5 million and publicly apologize to him for lying about WWE's product to settle WWE's $30 million defamation lawsuit against them.

It's past time for Take-Two/Rockstar to sue the PTC.

That image from the video looks like crap. Just goes to show how full of crap the Parent Trash Cult is.

Re: Parents Trash Cult Issues False Accusations on GTA

What did they say about the WWE? Rockstar should sue 'em too, then they'll have to admit they lied.

-If shit and bricks were candy and tits, we'd all be livin' large. For information on games and psychology, look up: Jonathan Freedman(2002)Block & Crain(2007)Grand Theft Childhood, by Harvard Medical School researchers Larry Kutner and Cheryl Olson

Reality/////////////////////////////////////Fantasy. Seems like a pretty thick line to me...

Re: Parents Trash Cult Issues False Accusations on GTA

Basically, the PTC:

-had gotten several companies(among them Coca-Cola and Wrigley's) to pull their advertising from WWE's programming, specifically targeting Smackdown!(WWE's tamest show which WWE tapes on Tuesday nights and airs on Friday nights now, then it used to air on Thursday nights), but when they showed clips of "Smackdown!", they were also showing clips of Raw and Pay-Per-Views(Mick Foley found that the 10-minute PTC fund-raising video showed him being thrown off the roof and through the roof of the Hell in the Cell cage by the Undertaker at the 1998 King of the Ring Pay-Per-View 11 times when when no one image or person was shown more than twice). The PTC also lied about advertisers had pulled sponsorship when they either didn't or never sponsored WWE programming in the first place(Foley in "Foley is Good" wrote that of the 40 companies Brent Bozell and the PTC claimed to have "persuaded" to pull ads from WWE programming, 25 never advertised on WWE programming).

-claimed that wrestling caused the deaths of four children in various places, most prominately the infamous Lionel Tate case in Fort Lauderdale, in which a then-12-year old Tate brutally murdered Tiffany Eunick, a 6 year old girl about a third his size. In fact, Tate's trial attorney would appear on a PTC fund-raising video specifically blaming WWE. The Thompsonesque attorney, Jim Lewis, even tried to subpeona The Rock and Hulk Hogan, but the judge wouldn't allow it. Not only that, Tate's defense rejected a deal from the D.A.'s office in which Tate would have served two years in juvi plus probation. But the so-called "wrestling defense"(wrestling wasn't mentioned by Tate or his defense until a month after Tiffany's death; in fact, it was the third different story he told police) failed miserably. Not only did the defense witnesses give testimony that unsubstainated Tate's claims, it only took the jury three hours to convict Tate of first-degree murder, and Tate was sentenced to life in prison without parole. During Tate's appeal with a new attorney, it came out that Tate wasn't watching wrestling, but The Flintstones and Cow and Chicken instead. While Tate did win his appeal, he ended up back in jail for 30 years(I think) for violating his parole by robbing a pizza deliveryman.

I should also mention that Bozell's father wrote speeches for Sen. Joseph McCarthy(albeit after McCarthy was censured by the Senate after he was whipped by the Army). So the PTC is in truth a McCarthyist a pile of shit group.

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

Hey look what I found on a clay tablet I unearthed in my back yard:

 

Parent Scroll Council Issues a Warning about illness in The Oddyssey.

Unfortunately, sex and violence often go together in today's media environment. That's especially true for many of the violent epic poems that are now flooding the marketplace. Topping them all for worst content is Homer's The Odyssey.

 

That bit of sarcasm aside.  Sex and violence go together in just today's media?  Yeah...  I would bet that at the creation of written word some guy described how he killed some guy and has his way with his woman.

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

Wow, a bunch of BS. What else is new.... I'm already betting that Saints Row 2 might get some flak as well.

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

My god. Those spikey letters that are all offset from the centre line are TERRIFYING. I must listen to this report.

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

It seems awfully coincidental that JT gets the path of the legal process bus and then this pops up about GTA IV which has been out for over 3 months.  This alert also reeks of his tactics with fact distortion and completely unfounded statements.  The only truth in there is there is a game called GTA IV.  They didn't even throw in it the fact it's rate for those 17 and up.

This is nothing but propaganda for their agenda which fits with the Video Games Rating Enforcement Act.

-Loudspeaker
"Volume helps to get a point across but sharp teeth are better."

"Volume helps to get a point across but sharp teeth are better."

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

I'm getting really effing tired of this stuff. They're not even trying here, I wouldn't mind their bashing quite so much if they would actually even try to research it, you know, figure out what really IS in the game instead of spewing stuff like this.

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

I think whats great about these statements is that it shows just how out of touch these people really are. Games have come a long way since Pac-man and Pong. It reminds me of that senate hearing a while back where this woman said something about getting past the seventh level of World of Warcaft.

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

Why is it always "points"?

Also a little late to the game aren't they? All the GTA 4 excitement has died down already, I haven't even touched it in a couple of months.

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

"And our research shows that many chidlren are able to buy this adult-rated video game far too easily."

Define easily.

"That's because the retailers don't have any consequenced for abiding by their own rules"

So having your job terminated on the spot isn't following your own guielines?

"You can also write Congress to ask them to pass the Video Games Rating Enforcement Act which will give teeth to the current ratings system."

Yes, we SOOOO look forward to your letter writing campaigns each time a video game that isn't E rated comes out. [/sarcasm]

"In the latest edition of, the player is a thug who gets points for having sex with prostitutes, running over pedestrians and even shooting police officers"

You've said this about every last one of them, yet you're acting liek you're just "discovering " this is in the new one.

And 10 of these games, ten of them ,count them, TEN Grand Theft Auto games come out including the one on Gameboy Color and Gameboy Advance, yet somehow, despite every last watchdog group's doomsday prophecies involving the games, why hasn't every last school in the country erupted in violence? Why hasn't the american auto industry collapsed form people stealing cars off the lot?

I bet they can't/won't explain it.

The PTC has NO credibilit,y NONE. Especially since less than a week after comedian George Carlin passed away, this group's leader bashed on him, yet apparently had nothing to say when the man was alive and able to talk back. That shows what kind of people these are.

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

They dissed George Carlin? A dead man? Fucking scum!!!!

-If shit and bricks were candy and tits, we'd all be livin' large. For information on games and psychology, look up: Jonathan Freedman(2002)Block & Crain(2007)Grand Theft Childhood, by Harvard Medical School researchers Larry Kutner and Cheryl Olson

Reality/////////////////////////////////////Fantasy. Seems like a pretty thick line to me...

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

http://mrc.org/BozellColumns/entertainmentcolumn/2008/col20080626.asp

As I said, note they said nothing abut Mr Carlin when he was alive to talk back.

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

I'm guessing that if hell freezes over and the PTC gets their wishes granted, they'd hold "game burning" ceremonies and ban all games that aren't family friendly. That will be the day I get a new hobby.

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

Nah, the family friendly ones would be burned as well. Remember, you get points for crushing or burning cute creatures in Super Mario Bros.

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

Nighstalker160's letter: Epic WIN! I'm pretty sure i'm the only one who says epic win as well as epic fail but still, nice job.

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

This is the text of the letter I am preparing to send to my local PTC chapter on this issue.  Any feedback/corrections are welcome.  I will be sending it at 7:30pm this evening"

BEGIN TEXT OF LETTER

I am addressing this letter to the Virginia Beach Chapter of the PTC do to the fact that I can find no contact information for the organization in general.  The subject of my letter is a response to the PTC's "Entertainment Alert" on the video game Grand Theft Auto IV.

You're "Alert" states in part:

In the latest edition of, the player is a thug who gets points for having sex with prostitutes, running over pedestrians and even shooting police officers. And our research shows that many chidlren are able to buy this adult-rated video game far too easily. That's because the retailers don't have any consequenced for abiding by their own rules. We're asking major retailers to not carry this sick game at all...
(emphasis added).

This claim that the player receives "points" is demonstrably false.  There is no scoring system in Grand Theft Auto IV (GTAIV) at all, there is no points system whatsoever.  The player does recover a small portion of health by engaging in sexual activity with prostitutes but that cannot be compared to a "points" system.

Neither does the player receive any positive benefit either for running over pedestrians or shooting police officers.  To the contrary, the effects of those activities are highly negative.  Each such act increases what is known as the players "wanted level" represented by the stars near the top of game screen.  Higher wanted levels provoke increasingly persistent police responses ranging from pursuit by squad car, pursuit by helicopter, pursuit by SWAT team, all the way up to a pursuit by what can only be described by a paramilitary force.

In fact, the usual consequence for engaging in either the random killing of people or police officers is either: arrest by the police or death of the player character at the hands of police.  Both are, in fact, highly negative consequences for the player rather the positive awarding of "points" your "alert" suggests. 

Again I must stress that there is no points system present in the game at all so the mere fact that the alert alludes to points in anyway demonstrates either:

1) Profound ignorance on the part of the PTC of the very object the claim to be analyzing

OR

2) Deliberate falsehood being perpetrated by the PTC, I hope this is not the case as an agency upholding itself to be a guardian of morality should obviously not engage in the deliberate falsifying of material facts.

Continuing on, your alert states that the PTC's research (which I cannot help but note you do not provide for independent analysis by the viewers of your alert) indicates that children are easily able to acquire this game.  Again, I must disagree.

When I purchased my copy of GTAIV from my local GameStop retailer I, a 23 year old law student who certainly looks older than 17, was asked to present photo-ID.  The clerk informed me that it is there policy to card ALL purchasers of material rated "M" by the Entertainment Systems Ratings Board (ESRB).  I have routinely observed these clerks, both at GameStop and my local Best Buy, card people both older and younger and REFUSE the sale of such material to one individual who could not provide proof of his age over 17 despite the fact the looked to be about 20 to me.  Additionally, these I have observed these clerks routinely advise parents of potentially objectionable material when these parents have tried to purchase such material for their younger children.  The parents routinely purchase the software DESPITE the advice of the clerks, usually accompanied by recommendations of more age-appropriate games.  In this case the onus has clearly been placed on the PARENTS (whom you claim to represent) who I can only assume you would consider as having failed in their parental obligations.

I must also direct you to the latest Federal Trade Commission report regarding the sale of video games.  This report may be found and viewed by your agency at:

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2008/05/secretshop.shtm

According to this report:

35% of children were able to buy a ticket to an R Rated movie
47% able to purchase an R rated DVD
50% were able to buy an Unrated DVD
56% were able to buy a PAL music CD
20% were able to buy an M rated game

I must draw your attention to that last figure showing that video games are the most successful medium at being refused sale to the underage, despite the ESRB ratings not being legally enforceable.  What do you consider to be showing that children were able to purchase this game "far too easily?"  However you fail to mention that the rate of successful sale to a below age shopper is only 20% a figure at least 15% lower than any other entertainment medium.

Perhaps your agency is using data from an older FTC report?  Such reports were conducted in 2000, 2001, 2003, 2006, and 2008.  The trend clearly shows that the success rate has been in decline, the last time a majority so underage shoppers were able to purchase an "M" rated video game was 2003 (69%) a figure which dropped to 42% in 2006 and 20% in 2008.

I would expect that the Parents Television Council would wish to laud the video game industry for such success and continued improvement and for being the best performing industry in this regard.  Clearly the video game industry is taking the concerns regarding underage access to inappropriate material more seriously than any other entertainment medium.  Yet the PTC appears to have nothing but scorn for the best performing industry in this regard.  It makes no logical sense that I can see.

The average age of a video game consumer is no longer that of a young child.  The majority of video game consumers and players today are in their 20s.  Video games have long moved past the children's activity they were a decade ago or longer.

Respectfully, I must ask that the Parent's Television Council engage in more deliberate research regarding the material they review. 

The errors in your "alert" regarding GTAIV's basic structure and your organization's failure to acknowledge the video game industry's demonstrated success in preventing inappropriate content from being sold to underage persons calls into serious question both your research methods and your truthfulness regarding this issue. 

I can see no reason why the PTC would wish to alienate the industry the BEST prevents underage content from being sold to minors. No one wishes to see inappropriate content in the hands of those too young to process it.  The video game industry has achieved a level of success in this area that is unprecedented and unparalleled by any other industry. Rather that attack the video game industry the PTC should applaud them for their success and ongoing efforts to keep adult content in the hands adults.  The PTC should contact the various associations representing video game publishes, consumers and retailers to offer assistance in replicating the the video game industry's success so that other media may enjoy similar success in the prevention of inappropriate content being provided to the underage.

END TEXT OF LETTER

Thanks for feedback.  Try to keep it to substantive stuff.  I haven't corrected for spelling or grammar yet so there are bound to be errors in that regard.

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

Near the top:

You're "Alert" states in part

should read

Your "Alert" states in part

-----------------------

Fourth paragraph:

Each such act increases what is known as the players "wanted level

should read

Each such act increases what is known as the player's "wanted level

[same paragraph]

all the way up to a pursuit by what can only be described by a paramilitary force.

should read

all the way up to a pursuit by what can only be described as a paramilitary force.

-----------------------

Fifth paragraph:

Both are, in fact, highly negative consequences for the player rather the positive awarding of "points" your "alert" suggests.

should read

Both are, in fact, highly negative consequences for the player rather than the positive awarding of "points" that your "alert" suggests.

-----------------------

Following line:

Again I must stress that there is no points system present in the game at all so the mere fact that the alert alludes to points in anyway demonstrates either:

should read

Again I must stress that there is no points system present in the game at all so the mere fact that the alert alludes to points in any way demonstrates either:

------------------------

Below item 2) on your first list:

The clerk informed me that it is there policy to card ALL purchasers of material rated "M" by the Entertainment Systems Ratings Board (ESRB).

should read

The clerk informed me that it is their policy to card ALL purchasers of material rated "M" by the Entertainment Systems Ratings Board (ESRB).

[same paragraph]

Additionally, these I have observed these clerks routinely advise parents of potentially objectionable material

This word should be removed, looks like you edited your sentence but missed that one.

-------------------------

Below FTC report stats:

the last time a majority so underage shoppers were able to purchase an "M" rated video game was 2003

should read

the last time a majority of underage shoppers were able to purchase an "M" rated video game was 2003

-------------------------

Final paragraph:

I can see no reason why the PTC would wish to alienate the industry the BEST prevents underage content from being sold to minors.

should read

I can see no reason why the PTC would wish to alienate the industry that BEST prevents underage content from being sold to minors.

[same paragraph]

Rather that attack the video game industry the PTC should applaud them for their success and ongoing efforts to keep adult content in the hands adults.

should read

Rather than attack the video game industry the PTC should applaud them for their success and ongoing efforts to keep adult content in the hands adults.

[same paragraph]

The PTC should contact the various associations representing video game publishes, consumers and retailers to offer assistance in replicating the the video game industry's success so that other media may enjoy similar success in the prevention of inappropriate content being provided to the underage.

should read

The PTC should contact the various associations representing video game publishers, consumers and retailers to offer assistance in replicating the video game industry's success so that other media may enjoy similar success in the prevention of inappropriate content being provided to the underage.

---------------------------

Also, there were two instances where you used "underage" where I believe it should be "underaged", but I'm not 100% sure the former isn't an acceptable term, so I didn't point those out specifically.

Sorry if this came across as needlessly nitpicky; I am actually quite impressed with the letter.  I just figure you might as well not give them anything to work with, no matter how baseless it might be =)

Good luck!

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

[same paragraph]

all the way up to a pursuit by what can only be described by a paramilitary force

 

actually they meant that they want a military tribunial =p

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

*Puts hands in the air*

I confess Mr. Grammar Officer...I did it! [I get any bonus points if I kill you?]

Nah just kidding ya.  Thanks a ton.  Not giving them anything to work with was exactly why I put this up for edit.  Always better to have multiple people edit your work before submission.

I imagine the PTC gets a million "YOU SUX SO BAD!! MY L33TNESS WILL MURDER YOUZ!! GTA ROXXXX!" letters in response to these things.  I'm hoping that mine gets some attention because it is different and well written.

I want them to have to go "hey wait!  this guy doesn't sound like a 10 year old kid with too much time on his hands"

Thanks for the work!

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

What's it feel like, writing a long message to them when it's most likely going to be ignored and even if they do reply to it, they won't address anything you correctly stated? The PTC has demonstrated that they don't care about facts, it's all about the attention and money, which the only way to get through to them is to successfully sue them.

 

 

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

Ya never know what will happen when you submit something.  Maybe I'll get the one reasonable person there.  In any case, I expect at least a form response.

I tried to throw in the stuff about "deliberate falsehood" "deliberate falsfysing of material facts."  That usually pushed someone's buttons because I'm accusing them of lying.  Sometimes you can provoke a reaction.

My generic email signature that gets sent with everything I email also says:

"William and Mary School of Law

JD Candidate, Class of 2010"

Even though it clearly says I am NOT a lawyer, I've noticed I tend to get a little more recognition which I figure is cause of that association.  I don't know if it actually helps but I don't think it hurts.

I figure hey, if I don't send anything I can't really say anything.  At least now I can say I did something.

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

Nice letter!  One small grammatical error:

"...to the Virginia Beach Chapter of the PTC do to the fact..."

should be:

"...to the Virginia Beach Chapter of the PTC due to the fact..."

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

nice letter.

 

one typo - 'you're' alert should be 'your' alert

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

Yeah I haven't proofread yet.  Thanks though...in fact...I'm gonna remove the part about not submitting grammar errors...because I won't catch all of them.  Thanks

I was glad to find the FTC report because I really wanted to throw it at them that the industry they are most focused on as bad is actually the one most in line with their objectives.

Basically, they're shooting the goose that laid the golden egg.  The video game industry seems to have found the best way to prevent underage people from buying adult content and the PTC wants to annoy them about it?

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

Ugh, the same 'points' bullcrap for the umpteen-millionth time. Nothing to see here, kids, move along.

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

In older adventure & (puzzle gmes) you do get points for solving -ehm- puzzles and such. But this whole getting points went out the window (maybe litterally?) around the start of the 21st century, 2000-2001.

It has been a long time since I have seen points actually being given out in a game - if we're not talking about getting experience points for doing quests in rpgs, that is. And yes, even in those you do get money, sometimes, too.

As I understand it, if you run over a pedestrian you do not get points, but you can collect the (small) amound of money hthe pedestrian has on him (or her)? 

 

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

Liars. No points, New FTC report contradicts their claim that kids are buying these games without parental approval, and you are hardly rewarded for criminal actions. The POLICE TRY TO KILL YOU. YOU LOSE MONEY AND WEAPONS IF YOU DIE OR ARE ARRESTED.

 

-If shit and bricks were candy and tits, we'd all be livin' large. For information on games and psychology, look up: Jonathan Freedman(2002)Block & Crain(2007)Grand Theft Childhood, by Harvard Medical School researchers Larry Kutner and Cheryl Olson

Reality/////////////////////////////////////Fantasy. Seems like a pretty thick line to me...

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

*sigh* i am so sick of this.

 

but you know what im not gonna sit here and list every point in the entire release n how each and every one is FUNDAMENTALLY 100% INCORRECT.

because its not my job. Im TIRED of defending videogames. I do it TIME AND TIME again, and EVERY time we as gamers are left to do it alone.

When companies behind games come out and publicly fight back, and set the record straight , then ill defend them again. (lets face it, these arent even 'debates' that would take alot of time and resources, its just a pack of actual lies you can say simply and clearly.. thats wrong , heres proof, thats wrong heres proof, annnnnd thats wrong heres proof... now apologise)

But until they do... sorry..

come on ECA, come on publishers, come on developers. How can you EVER expect games to be taken seriously when you allow filth like this in your own backyard?

Grow up, and stand up for yourself.

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

well said

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

Points *do not exist* in Grand Theft Auto.  Why is this such a difficult concept to understand?

If nothing else, groups like this are shooting their own feet off when they do stuff like this.  Not only are they demostrating their own ignorance of a subject they claim to care about, but they're also proving that they ignore relevant research that contradicts their claims of kids being able to buy M rated games.

I also can't help but comment on the irony of anyone claiming that TODAY'S media is full of sex and violence.  Somebody hasn't seen Psycho or Night of the Living Dead.

Besides, there are other games to harass.  Why hasn't Ninja Gaiden 2 become the media's whipping boy?  You viciously maim thousands of enemies amid oceans of blood.  I easily had the most fun reviewing it. :P

M. Carusi

Capitol Gaming

http://augamers.blogspot.com/

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

Also, these same networks who say how much violence and sex are in these games freely air shows that show it. I think they talk about how bad games are because they are still relatively a new form of media compared to TV and music, they are interactive, which means that Tommy can now experience gunning down people, and of course, you can't "air" a video game on TV, so they don't feel guilty when they condemn video games! These three things blend perfectly together for these people, so of course they're going to continue to do this! What's stopping them?

Also, I'm tired that they continue to refer to Grand Theft Auto in general as the poster child for all adult-oriented video games. There are worse games out there, but if was up to them, all the problems in this world should stem from Grand Theft Auto, Manhunt, and the internet.

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

I see that in their letter to your representatives, they still have failed to update their FTC report to use the 2008 report rather than the 2005 report. It appears that the latest FTC study hurts them more than it helps so they are not acknowledging it.

I think I will write to the PTC and find out why they are delibrately misleading the population and the government.

E. Zachary Knight
www.editorialgames.com
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
MySpace Page: http://www.myspace.com/okceca
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1325674091

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

Woah, woah- GTA IV is out?

/b

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

Wait  wait wait...

You get points for running over pedestrians?  All this time I thought doing that too much made you get...you know...either arrested or killed by the police.

I always thought the consequences for killing pedestrians in GTAIV were negative.

Gotta love how there there is no way that I can see to actually CONTACT the PTC on their website without clicking "Joint the PTC" or "Make A donation" or "Support the PTC."

I am however, drafting a letter to my local chapter that I can send via email.  Doubt it will get me anywhere, but I might as well TRY to correct some of their misinformation.  I'll post the contents of my letter here first for any feedback or corrections you guys might have for me.

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

editor@parentstv.org

Just wrote them myself!

"De minimus non curat lex"

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

Again with the stupid fucking points?  The day that the last person in that stinking video-game-unaware generation dies (Which can't be that long, they're mostly elderly) wiill be a happy day for gamers.

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

Points? What the fuck is he talking about?

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

Jesus, when will they stop saying that you are awarded points in GTA? There are no points, and you're certainly not rewarded for those actions, you're chased down by the cops.

And I'd like to see them try to get retailers to stop selling GTA IV, probably the overall best selling multiplatform game ever.

 

-"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill

-"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

I, too, enjoy the points mentioned in everything condemning games like this. It is like they are trying to explain to those who know nothing about games in a way that they'd understand. As if games haven't evolved past mindless shooters attempting to get the highest score on the arcade unit.

It's like comments made a few weeks back that you get points for rape in GTA4. Wow, I must've missed that one... ... but I'm one of those mindless violent game playing people who get so angry at people that I use all of the training I have gathered from playing these games and murder them. This violent mindlessness that consumes me must be the reason I completely missed the score display when playing GTA4.

100 points for runing over a grandma!

Re: Parents Television Council Issues Video Alert on "Sick" GTA

The PTC is lucky I don't just be done with it and consider their lies and deceit too immoral to include them among the list of resources for Parents and individuals to make informed decisions about their media choices.

Not that the PTC would care if I included them or not, but -I- would because I pride myself on trying to offer Parents and individuals as many resources as possible so they can pick and choose what is the most appropriate resource for them, rather than me deciding for them.

Maybe I'll write up the first PSA/Press Release for my organization this weekend and send it out.

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl
 
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KronoSure none of those are reviews, but it is positive exposure, which as illustrated by The Fine Young Capitalists, is pretty damn important for getting people to check out your work.10/02/2014 - 10:32am
Krono@Midnight and of course the article most people mention and insist was no way influenced by him being romantically involved only days later, and her friend beforehand here: http://goo.gl/xCzivK10/02/2014 - 10:29am
Papa MidnightThe term "lovers" might be pushing it given the apparent time frame, but I understand what you're saying. Even if they were friends at the time, then that may present impropiety. However, that calls for a Magic-8-Ball level of speculation.10/02/2014 - 10:26am
Krono@Midnight She was a guest on an RPS show he cohosted here: http://goo.gl/QxljSG10/02/2014 - 10:24am
prh99Personally I'd say her original piece on Bronies was far more ethically questionable. Though for different reasons.10/02/2014 - 10:20am
Krono@Midnight On the Grayson relationship? For starters it depends on how long they were friends before they were lovers. Nathan gave Depression Quest top billing back in this article: http://goo.gl/tqGsnW10/02/2014 - 10:20am
Papa MidnightIf said journalist, however, is placed into a position where they have to write about matters dealing with DICE, then yes, a COI is present and should be declared.10/02/2014 - 10:18am
Papa MidnightHypothetically, if a developer from DICE starts dating a tech journalist from CNN tomorrow, so long as said CNN journalist is not (in)directly involved in any editorial process regarding matters dealing with DICE, there's no need to declare a COI.10/02/2014 - 10:18am
Papa MidnightThere's no need for it. A declaration of a Conflict of Interest is only necessary in the event that the parties may be placed into a situation where the conflict may become a factor.10/02/2014 - 10:16am
Krono@prh99 It was after #gamergate. There was a post on r/games that called out the lack of disclosure.10/02/2014 - 10:12am
Papa MidnightKrono: If the purpose of such was to expose some conflict of interest, I am not sure what the purpose or end objective was. Specifically, said relationship had not produced any works positive or otherwise. Where's the beef?10/02/2014 - 10:09am
prh99I don't know, the update isn't dated. Also, actual attempt at deception or absent mindedness? "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"10/02/2014 - 10:06am
Krono@prh99 disclosed in an update after #gamergate noticed and called it out.10/02/2014 - 10:04am
Papa MidnightDriving people from their homes. e-Letter bombing (for all practical intents and purposes) advertisers like they're the FCC after a certain Superbowl half-time show to pull advertising from a media outlet for the crime of having an opinion?10/02/2014 - 10:00am
Papa MidnightIt's hard to drape yourself in the glory of your righteous campaign when you're exposing the personal information of a person, and following up with a campaign of harassment (organised or ortherwise). 12 year olds calling your personal cell for Five Guys?10/02/2014 - 9:58am
prh99http://kotaku.com/anna-anthropy-designer-behind-dys4ia-and-triad-and-au-1448084641 <--relationship disclosed10/02/2014 - 9:57am
Papa MidnightEven to this day, that remains the primary citation of those embarking in it. That said, the whole "it's not about harrassment" thing is comparable to making an extremely racist statement, then following up by saying "but I'm not a racist."10/02/2014 - 9:56am
Papa MidnightI think EZK is more spot-on. This may have carried on far beyond it's genesis, but the true driving force of this whole astroturfing campaign was the angst of an ex-boyfriend of Zoe Quinn's.10/02/2014 - 9:54am
KronoAnd that's off the top of my head, specific to Kotaku.10/02/2014 - 9:54am
E. Zachary KnightKrono, yet no one can actually point at any "positive reviews" or otehr press given Quinn by Grayson.10/02/2014 - 9:53am
 

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