Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to BBFC

July 31, 2008 -

Some rather curious developments out of the U.K. yesterday... 

Early on, James Kirkup, political correspondent for The Guardian, wrote a story to the effect that the British government would recommend that the BBFC, which rather famously banned Manhunt 2 last year, should rate games for the UK market. Kirkup predicted the official word would come today.

Later yesterday, ELSPA, which represents UK game publishers, called Kirkup's report "speculation" and "scaremongering."

Yet Kirkup has proved prescient. As Edge reports this morning:

A report from the UK House of Commons Select Committee on Culture, Media, and Sport has revealed that body’s preference in BBFC ratings over the industry self-regulating PEGI system...

 

the committee maintains that BBFC ratings are more “thorough and rigorous" than the PEGI system, and that the BBFC symbols “command greater confidence”... 

Meanwhile, the CMS committee's report itself concludes:

There is a distinct issue about labelling of video games to indicate the nature of their content. Two systems currently exist side by side: the industry awards its own ratings, and the British Board of Film Classification awards classifications to a small number of games which feature content unsuitable for children. The dual system is confusing, and Dr [Tanya] Byron recommended that there should instead be a single hybrid system. We believe that Dr Byron's solution may not command confidence in the games industry and would not provide significantly greater clarity for consumers.

 

While either of the systems operated by the BBFC and by the industry would be workable in principle, we believe that the widespread recognition of the BBFC's classification categories and their statutory backing offer significant advantages which the industry's system lacks. We therefore agree that the BBFC should have responsibility for rating games with content appropriate for adults or teenagers, as proposed by Dr Byron, and that these ratings should appear prominently. Distributors would of course be free to continue to use industry ratings in addition.

Gizmodo terms the CMS recommendation "decisive," adding:

The decision will come as a real blow to the pan-European games rating system, PEGI, backed by games software developer organisation, ELSPA as well as big guns like Microsoft, Nintendo and Ubisoft.
 

 


Comments

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

I'm all for freedom of ttnet vitamin speech and allowing rent a car game makers to put whatever they want in games, but there's one thing about this app that has me scratching my head.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but from araç kiralama the previous article araba kiralama on this I gathered that players can use Google maps in-game to find the other (real-life?) dealers in their area.  If this is the case, has travesti anyone considered what's stopping someone from using this app to actually move drugs between hands for reals?

But majority araba kiralama of their outrage araç kiralama stems from what it could DO TO children, not the content itself.  Talk to one of these people and you'll find they don't think any books kiralık araba should be banned from children.  Mention American Psycho and they talk about kiralık araç the redeeming value of using imagination to construct a story.  Reading, no matter what the content, is largely viewed as a consequenceless activity for people of any age.  The reason why I mention American Psycho is because of the content itself.  Gaming never has and likely never will have any scenes where someone has sex with a severed head.  Not gonna happen.  Yet despite this, they'll fight tooth and nail to protect their children from two boys kissing in Bully but whatever they read is harmless... yeah.

The entire arguement is kiralık oto based upon a social normality inflicted by luddites who can't figure out the controls for Halo so it's frightening and terrifying and obviously the cause of youth violence on the rise even though, in reality, it's in decline (which is actually a HUGE suprise given minibüs kiralama the economies status).  In  a perfect world, we would have parents that actually parent.  The idea of sales restrictions on media on oto kiralama any form to accomidate parental unwillingness to get involved with their child's life is the real problem to me.  Here I am, 32 years old, and being held up at a self-scan rent a car needing to show ID before I can buy a $10 M rated game all because Soccer Momthra can't be bothered to look at the crap Billy Genericallystupidson does in his free time.  It's too hard for her, so I have to suffer?

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

Ah just great, cue another bad tempered exchange on the subject...

Gift.

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

It's rather tiresome, I agree. Everybody trots out the same old arguements whenever somebody new pops up. I've been coming here under different guises for ages now, and it's the same every time.

-- teh moominz --

-- teh moominz --

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

If it were definitely better, I'd be all for it, but the justification for favoring the BBFC seems not to extend beyond 'it was here first, and more people are aware of it.'  The geocentric model of the solar system was there first, too, but it was phased out in favor of a better system.

Not that I'm saying the BBFC is definitely inferior - I don't know the relative merits of the two enough to pass judgment. But lots of good ideas are beaten to the market by competitive but bad ideas, so saying something was there first isn't much of a justification at all.

Besides, if change is needed, better to do it sooner rather than later before it becomes enough of an institution that change becomes even more complicated. The MPAA ratings system has been active long enough that if they completely changed the ratings system then lots of people would be wildly confused.

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

I think you'll find that the very reason why we Brits tend to favour the BBFC isn't because of the "Old VS New" argument, but that we actually HAVE weighed up the consequences based on the choice of either two systems, and the BBFC would seem to suit Britain better than the PEGI. (The Byron report goes into this in great detail)

The BBFC isn't expoited by the Government as a 1984 Dept of Censorship. Additionally, we're not as sensationalist as some of your more rigid politicians. If it were being abused, trust us, we'd get the system changed.

What I don't understand is why some of the GP readers here (read: Zippy) are so intent on cramming a less reliable and misleading system which has greater potential for flaws and isn't so ready to amend its mistakes down our throats?

Let me try to put it to you in this way. We often compare the US to the UK in terms of freedom of speech, religious zealotism, our respective health industries etc.

I on the other hand often compare Japan with the UK, the two being from similar Imperialist island backgrounds.

In Japan, you can often buy beer or cigarettes in vending machines everywhere. It's cheap, and if there isn't on readily available, you can get them from 24 hour convenience stores.

This system, although brilliant for the Japanese who wouldn't often abuse this system wouldn't work for the UK, what with us having an ingrained Chav and LagerLout culture.

I  mean, try setting up a beer vending machine in Brixton and see how long it'll last...

The way that we have our BBFC suits the needs of our populace, and if it doesn't, then they've shown signs that they're willing to self improve and make the first step to change. PEGI would give us a blanket system which might not necessarily be suitable for British culture when compared to other European countries.

Just because some believe the US to be the last bastion of freedom doesn't mean one has the right to force what one might think is suitable (considering your own cultural background) down our throats. That's infringing on our own liberties to believe in something different. By doing so, you are impeding our ability to choose what is right for us.

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

I certainly appreciate your input on the subject good sir.

I think what a lot of angry Brits fail to realize about the Americans on this thread is that, in our country, we have nutjob politicians. If our rating system, the ESRB, were to ever have the force of law behind its decisions then it would most certainly be abused here. That's the entire reason I'm against the force of law behind something such as this.

Then again, you have to remember we have nutty, greedy, power hungry politicians over here who would love to turn this country into a nanny state the first opportunity they got.

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

But then it's important to realise that nutjob politicians get ridiculed in this country, so they can't get away with it as much.

Every word by our PM is scrutinised by not only an army of journalists, but also the opposition parties. Any stupid comment can bring embarrassment to the party in the House of Commons.

Although our politicians aren't perfect, it's just that it's harder to get away with megalomaniacal antics than in the US.

As such, different political systems + different culture means that what works in UK won't always work in US and vice versa. It's not as if we've given up our freedom or anything. To think so is crazy. To believe that the US is the only place that hasn't, despite all the evidence to the contrary is also crazy.

Again, just my 2p.

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

The BBFC's symbols are more widely recognised than PEGIs. Furthermore, the BBFC play the games they rate. Finally, the BBFC is independent of the industries whose products it rates. It's for those three reasons the UK GPers have a stated preference for the BBFC.

IMHO, if PEGI wasn't merely a check-box system and exercised some due diligence (at least as much as the ESRB would be a start), then it might have more British supporters.

-- teh moominz --

-- teh moominz --

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

1) It's only more widely recognized because it's been around longer. Bad ideas do not get better with age - I don't think it's fair to ignore the BBFC's problems simply because it's an old system.

2) Many people aren't convinced that playing the games makes the rating more accurate than the ESRB's system of viewing representative footage of the game.

3) My understanding is that the ESRB is fundamentally independent from the industry. It is a separate entity which provides a service to game companies (rating games) and receives payment for that service. If the ESRB were giving inaccurate ratings then the industry would stop paying them to rate the games.

Just giving a different perspective on the BBFC - PEGI may still be far inferior. I'm just not convinced, based on those statements, that the BBFC is definitely better.

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

"1) It's only more widely recognized because it's been around longer. Bad ideas do not get better with age - I don't think it's fair to ignore the BBFC's problems simply because it's an old system."

The length of time the BBFC has been operating doesn't make it any better or worse, but it does mean that it is trusted by the public. When it comes to classification, whcih is largely seen in the UK as a public protection role, trust is vital. The BBFC already have it, PEGI hasn't built it up yet.

Listening to the radio interviews across different media today in the UK the BBFC put their case very well, ELPSA sounded very shrill and didn't do themelves any favours by using easily demonstrable falsehoods on air, PEGI didn't even put a rep. If you want to look as if you are at arms length from the industry you are regulating, try having a presence.

"2) Many people aren't convinced that playing the games makes the rating more accurate than the ESRB's system of viewing representative footage of the game."

The BBFC already do that. They watch show reels of all the cut-scenes etc, and they also have acess to playable code. That code will usually have a full de-bug mode to allow then to access whatever material they want to see. The importance of playing the game is to understand the context in which the material is seen and the relationship between the player and the action on screen. It helps to undertsand the impact and role of the material within the player's experience.

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

"The BBFC already do that. They watch show reels of all the cut-scenes etc, and they also have acess to playable code. That code will usually have a full de-bug mode to allow then to access whatever material they want to see. The importance of playing the game is to understand the context in which the material is seen and the relationship between the player and the action on screen. It helps to undertsand the impact and role of the material within the player's experience."

the trouble is 7-8 out of 10 times palying the "code" is pointless, for msot games your not goign to gain more insight over it from palying it.

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


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Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

Woah woah woah....

Let me get this straight now...

So what you're saying is that actually playing the game in any way or form is unnecessary to the rating of it?

I think I have you pegged now Zippy. You live in some kind of Lalaland, smoking crack and reminiscing about the golden years.

Let's take your logic one step further shall we?

Hmm...let's see...oh yes:

1) We should all buy games based on the pretty picture on the cover, simply because it looks cool. After all, checking to see if the game is good or not is a total waste of time. Of course, my British friend told me that the game wasn't that good after all, but hey, why should I listen to what others with experience tell me?

2) When someone is accused of paedophilia, we shouldn't trial him or check for conclusive evidence. We should string him up and let him dance the hemp fadango because as we all know, every man is innocent until speculated.

3) Why bother looking into the facts of anything at all? I mean, I'm not part of a group of brainless sheeple. I'll just believe whatever the games industry wants me to believe. But hey, I mean, most of them are companies from my country and I'm just so keen on giving them my hard earned cash. But wait! Even better! I can just pirate them, because I refuse to make any form of moral choice regarding the matter. Why worry about it when I can make up facts to justify myself along the way?

And that is how the "internet sensation" that is Zippy has come to pass.

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

This is the wittiest post I've read on here in ages! You, sir, have a fan in me. That said, please don't knock Zippy too hard. He may be a moron, but he's our moron and this place would be duller without him.

-- teh moominz --

-- teh moominz --

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

"the trouble is 7-8 out of 10 times palying the "code" is pointless, for msot games your not goign to gain more insight over it from palying it."

In the vast majority of games there is probably no need to play the game. In those cases they probably don't do much more than a cursory check. The BBFC will still require a playable version of the final release version to be provided. The BBFC will examine what they feel is necessary to award the appropriate rating, and more importantly give advice to consumers. The textual advice they give is very important, particularly at the lower end of the scale. The advice around the PG, 12A, 12 in films is instructive.

If the material is clearly inoffensive and falls within a particular rating for clear reason the process will be quick. If it is a more difficult decision it will take longer. It is up to the publisher to give all the information they can to speed up the process; they are paying for it.

As the BBFC only deals with the top end at the moment the advice is probably less important (some might describe the task as 'slotting' but I'm not really sure what that means). As the advice role becomes more important, particularly around the 12A criteria, they are really involved in classification rather than a simple rating task. Context is king when it comes to giving advice on the potential impact of the experience on the player.

 

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

The point of ratings isn't to make life easy for publishers - it's to inform, and reassure the general public. With that in mind, efficiency plays second fiddle to horoughness and attention to detail. The point being is that you and I as gamers may know that a Crash Bandicoot or Spyro game, for example, are standard kids' fare that wouldn't trouble a five year old, however most parents don't. It's for this reason even the games that seem to have obvious classifications require scrutiny.

 

-- teh moominz --

-- teh moominz --

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

"PEGI didn't even put a rep"

Theres a point, PEGI haven't even chimed in on this at all.

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

Benji, it's not my place to comment on the US system, which is why I didn't directly refer to the ESRB. In fact, it's this Americanocentric viewpoint that continues to get my goat. I've yet to hear a single, solitary British pundit suggest that actually playing the games is unnecessary; even so PEGI's system doesn't even factor in viewing representative footage. If it did, perhaps I'd feel differently. But it doesn't. PEGI certainly isn't independent of the videogames industry, as it's maintained by the major publishers themselves. So out of the two choices that are available to us - BBFC and PEGI - I choose the former principally because it has a more thorough methodology.

Now, if you suggest that the UK should adopt the ESRB, i'll really blow my lid, for the reason that those age ratings are determined by and for the US market, not the UK's.

-- teh moominz --

-- teh moominz --

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

 

Not quite, although having a worldwide ESRB with branches to do localized work like pegi dose is not a bad idea, altho it’s better to let the larger countries have their own system but this does not mean stupid ideas and themes will be ignored, you have masses of people living under the BBFC that know nothing of how it works and yet get a couple outsiders who might have some information about it and you some people get overtly anal retentive and they really have to grow up and take criticism as it coems and try and make reasonable counter points not “ZOMG uuu outsider uu suck”, “zomg amerikcans sucks” “ZOMG our system works better because its…. ours…”.

Ballocks I say!

 

 

Both the ESRB and trhe BBFC are flawed one can be fixed more easily while the other is hopelessly stuck in amerikan politics and heres a hint it can’t be fixed so easily and it’s not British.

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

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Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

The point I am trying to make is that if you want to start holding forth with opinions on a foreign culture, it helps if you at least try and see things from their point of view.

-- teh moominz --

-- teh moominz --

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

The problem is you see no problem and thats the crux of the argument you guys refuse to see the flaws in the BBFC, when tis jsut as screwed up as the ESRB.

The nuances of child,teen and mature levels differ from populace to populace, but in the end  banning does not work, full reviews make for a cumbersome process NO MATTER THE POPUALCE.

I wish we had media age laws here in eh states to shut our polis up, I wish we were less thoroughly immature over nudity, the BBFC dose things well enough but it can be better for the populace as a whole not the moralists or the government but for the populace who does not need moralists protecting adults from adult things..

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

Zippy, you have not fully grasped exactly how the BBFC rate games. They do not play them as you or I would play them. The utilise any number of means, from cheats and shortcuts to utilsing teams of people each focussing on a particular segment if game. I agree it would be a long, laborious, cumbersome task if the BBFC evaluated a game in the same way a videogames journalist, but they don't. I'm sorry, I thought you were aware of that already.

-- teh moominz --

-- teh moominz --

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

 

Sorry the fact that they play them in any length in a mandatory fashion makes it just as cumbersome as if they played it normally(and this mindset is stuck in idiots(me) head), it’s not needed for most games save the full review for the more questionable and harder to pin games.

I know the nuances in the law and how things work are different, but I can’t help but feel if they made it so that slotting would be banned games to 18R(yes I know they can’t do it now but if they could mind you) if they slotted them to 18R it would say to the public you can have your media in a restricted fashion it would say to the pubs theres no middle ground or back door(if they make all imported  versions of it 18R highly unlikely I would think, a case could be made in court that a censored version is not the same but the point is to control the content if just a bit without the appearance of full on censorship).

Would also really like the bann system to be focused to if it’s not rated then its18, I think that would make for a boon in the used and retail markets, if things get sold thigns get taxed, it’s all win IMO.

 

 

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

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Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

I don't disagree with that. I think 18R is an underused classification (much like AO) and I am uncomfortable with the idea of banning something outright if it's possible to restrict its sale in a genuinely effective manner.

I do think, though, that all games should be played/viewed/experienced in order to determine a rating. I mean, to my mind that's how you determine a rating.

See? We almost 100% agreed on something…

-- teh moominz --

-- teh moominz --

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

I wish you would run your posts the spelling and grammer checker in Word or OpenOffice before you put them on the website, but hey, its just not gonna happen either.

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

 

I do in word 07 most of the time, that should tell you just how screwed u mew bwains is :P

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

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Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

And as if to prove his point, I haven't a fucking clue what you are talking about in this sentence.

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

mis post

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

 

Good points to the ESRB I mean we can count 2 maybe 3 cockups one was because it has no middle ground for teen games making something that for all accounts should be teen class adult (Oblivoin), and GTA:SA which by all account is a bunch of nothing, were talking deleted/disabled content magically appearing with “outside” code that makes the game still no worse than a PG13 film.. and on the BBFC side we have manhunt 2 and some gaffs over other games which barely makes for 2, I don’t see one being inherently better here, unless you are a blind patriot and then well logic and reason is a loss for uuuuuuu*lick*.

 

 

PEGI  would still be bound by law I do not see how they could avoid it I mean if they were made “IT” things would be adjusted as so they can do a reasonable job, so the only things that would change are the inability to slot a game and full reviews.

 

I still think the BBFC could be the best if they just re structure a bit.

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

As much money as they take from the indutry with the gun called law theya re as much a part of the problem.

Pegi is alil better because they slot without a moralist creed, if the BBFC would refocus away from full reviews and bans alil more it would be the best rating system in the world. 

 

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

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Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

You have yet to explain why you think that less exposure to a game is considered better?

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

Time, money, effort, sanity, it’s silly to think a “normal” mature game or child’s game is going to magically become less or more by playing it all the way through like a retard on crack looking for divine intervention(in a similar fashion as to how zippy tries to write hoping he will improve if just lil by lil :P).

 

Is that good enough for you MR.Anonytroll?

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

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Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

Well I doubt its down to money, given the multi-dollar development costs the BBFC fees are a drop in the bucket. Oh and you forget that they need to pay PEGI too.

Effort? Rubbish, by the time it gets to submitting the game is fully developed, all the debug codes are there, all the documentation that the BBFC would require is complete. The amount of effort is tiny when compaired to the effort required for, say, Microsofts testing procedure to get your game digitally signed for distribtion of the 360, go read Jeff Minters blog's archives about the hastle he had getting Space Giraffe onto Live.

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

 

Again well said, it needs to be tweaked and pruned and made better before it becomes such a bureaucracy that the only way to change it is to kill it.

The BBFC has more going for it than the ESRB but is held back to much.

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

There seems to be a lot of ill-feeling about the BBFC from the US GP-ers.

Are there any UK GP-ers who feel the same fear for the BBFC? I expect not. The fact that the BBFC has been operating for a hundred years means we Brits are used to to the concept that it not a governmental tool to oppress the masses.

It works, and the Byron Report recognises that fact. PEGI will need to be used for online (i.e. international/European) content, but BBFC ratings will be used for everything else.

Still think the UK is a hotbed of totalitarianism? Bare in mind that this system has already been in place in this country for years already, and you seemed okay with it before.

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

The difference is that UK GPers don't mind it because it isn't used as the government's censorship tool. US GPers don't like it because the potential exists for it to be used as the government's censorship tool, even if it won't necessarily be used so.

I'd also argue that the situation is made worse by the fact that the US seems to have a lot more people that would like to see games censored. The BBFC model may work for you across the pond, but I think it'd be more readily abused here.

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

Beautiflly put!

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

I agree, well said. I don't think anybody's suggested the USA adopt the British model, though.

-- teh moominz --

-- teh moominz --

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

Let’s go over where the BBFC fails, so you all can bash me more.

 

Banning post review.

Full re review of ported games.

Full review for all games regardless of need.

These issues make the system cumbersome and antiquated at best; The BBFC has the means to be one of the best ratings systems but is held down by cumbersome processes, first off change focus from banning to labeling unrated media to a automatic 18 this removes 80% of problems in importation, mail order and sale of items because all this goes on anyway with it being randomly enforced wasting parcel employees time playing censorbot, because most media is not 18 they will happily go to the BBFC for better slotting, because of the age laws in the UK you don’t need to have a redundant ban law when the age law protects children because protecting adults from adult material is sadly immaturely anal retentive.

 Make the review process faster for common media, this media dose not push the edges and is what it is, however if need be a full review can be done to fully grade the media in question, at worse slap a 18R on it this will be almost worse than ban, much more restrictive in terms of sale and with profits in danger they will either reroll the game or let it stand.

 Re reviewing stuff that has already been reviewed is kind a dumb you already have rated it take the new content if any and level up eh rating if need be , a few games like dream fall the longest journey won’t be coming to the UK XBL branch because of time/cost issues, the process does not need to be so anally cumbersome.

 I have dished on the ESRB in the GP forums a lot besides the AO fiasco the slotting ranges are pathetic you have 2 or 3 sub 6,6,10,13,17 and a unused AO, like E10 amid point between 6 and 13 I think a T15 is needed for the teen level it would help move less than mature M17 titles out of the M line and make M17 a more solid rating, even so I think adding a M18 level for NC17 gore and leaving AO for porn is one of the better things the ESRB can do to make the ESRB that much better as a rating board, but like the BBFC they concern themselves with politics a bit too much and cannot evolve to become a better ratings board.   

 In the end here’s a question you have to ask yourself do you want government having so much power over media it can ban on a whim whatever it dislikes and then bipolarly enforce it to have a random admin enact a law or precedent one day that closes whatever “but I can still get it loophole”  you have today, are you so sure you want government to have that much power when they cock up so much?

 Full reviewing is debatable it works for harder content but not so much for “normal” content, banning is just a fake moralistic gimmick that makes the moralist feel better while wasting time, money and effort.

-----------------------

And for those bashing me because I refuse to be a good lil sheeple and lap up what big media is shating out for the masses well I don’t care much for consuming poo like the masses …doo….*lick*

Besides in a commissioned driven media industry all the “small folk” get paid it’s the CP owners and conglomerates that might lose pennies on the dollar if that.

 I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

Im sure i heard Tanya Byron state that she preffered bbfc over pegi but an amalgamation of the 2 would be best.  (this was around the time of the report coming out but my memory could well be failing me as well).

Me personally i feel that in all honesty that the bbfc are the best candidate for the job here,  although there is nothing wrong with PEGI the British public are used to bbfc ratings and in the most part trust the bbfc to get it's job done correctly.
I have no issue with the bbfc having legal backing and have no fear that the Goverment steping in (there isnt really any reason for them too either.)

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

 

Just get in the right set of people and welcome to a system that’s akin to Newzeland where the 18 level is used infrequently at best, although with 2 or 3 tweaks the BBFC would probly be the best rating system in the world.

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

But, but there's no precedent to support your hypothesis, so it's easily discountable.

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

I'm afraid to say Dennis has reported this inaccurately. Nothing has been decided yet, Hodge has just opened up another period of consultation.

To be honest, I will be almo as miffed about a BBFC-only ratings system as I would be for a PEGI-only ratings syetm. Dr Byron hit the nail on the head - why canlt people listen to the woman?

I will say one other thing, though - the BBFC's spokespeople conduct themsleves much better in interviews than ELSPA's.

Also, have you considered that some North American commenters miught simply be posting flame-bait? Just a thought...

Lastly, Zippy has no right to weigh on this debate as this ruling only affects people who buy games at retail; theives will remain unaffected.

-- teh moominz --

-- teh moominz --

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

So you wish to censor my rights to comment becuse you think less of me, how flamingly nice of you. *lick*

And somehow you fail to realize that banned media is still confiscated by the UK parcel system, no it does not affect you lil sheeple because it has never effected "YOU", you self righteous pompoms ass that’s not the  point, the point is it effects the people even in its current randomly enforced state.

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

Lol...I call bullshit on this one.

Come on Zippy...lets see your sources for this one now.

Oh wait....hehehe...I see what you did there. Very clever.

"And somehow you fail to realize that banned media is still confiscated by the UK parcel system, no it does not affect you lil sheeple because it has never effected "YOU", you self righteous pompoms ass that’s not the  point, the point is it effects the people even in its current randomly enforced state."

By the by, how is this in any way relevant to our current discussion of the BBFC VS PEGI?

Sheeple indeed. Please take a look at your own political clime before you slate ours. Faux News anyone?

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

Oh yeah, and I also forgot...Patriot act anyone?

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

"And somehow you fail to realize that banned media is still confiscated by the UK parcel system"

LIES!  Give ONE example of this... go on!  We're all waiting...

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

The point I was trying to make is that ratings only affect people who purchase games, not self-confessed pirates such as yourself who steal them.

Please understand where I'm coming from. I don't think pirates (or hackers for that matter) necessarily deserve censorship (or jail time). I just wish you'd pay for the stuff you use.

-- teh moominz --

-- teh moominz --

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

So a system which sets arbitary moral lines based on current political leadership's beliefs is chosen over a much more thorough better system?

Wow what surprise....

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

Rather than me typing it a 3rd time, read up about Oblivion being rerated due to political pressure in the US and not in the UK... ho hum.

Re: Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to

Part of Oblivion's re-rate may be due to the age breaks in ESRB ratings. A lot of people thought the original game WAS violent enough to warrant more than a T rating and thought Oblivion was generally too violent and too dark to warrant a T. If the ESRB had a 15+ rating, Oblivion would have probably got it. But, the ESRB only has 13+ and 17+, and Oblivion proved to be a problem case because it feel very neatly between the two. I suspect Halo may also be in the same boat (from what I hear, at least) - it's intense action with guns and explosions but with little blood and gore and no sex or gratituous swearing, and I've heard from many people that it's unfair for Halo to share the same rating as GTA.

 
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