BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer Was a Gamer

August 7, 2008 -

BoingBoing co-author Cory Doctorow gives a wide-ranging interview to the Chicago Tribune in which he touches on misperceptions about violent video games and the Virginia Tech massacre.

There’s this broad consensus that the Virginia Tech murders had something to do with violent video games. When you actually read the coroner's inquest report, video games are mentioned twice. The first is his mother saying he never wanted to play those video games. The second is his roommate saying, "We always thought he was weird because he never wanted to play video games." Yet it’s still a [popularly held] truism that violent video games must be responsible for Virginia Tech.

 

GP: As GamePolitics has reported in the past, the official commission investigating the Virginia Tech rampage found only one game that the killer played - Sonic The Hedgehog.


Comments

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

I'm all for freedom of ttnet vitamin speech and allowing rent a car game makers to put whatever they want in games, but there's one thing about this app that has me scratching my head.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but from araç kiralama the previous article araba kiralama on this I gathered that players can use Google maps in-game to find the other (real-life?) dealers in their area.  If this is the case, has travesti anyone considered what's stopping someone from using this app to actually move drugs between hands for reals?

But majority araba kiralama of their outrage araç kiralama stems from what it could DO TO children, not the content itself.  Talk to one of these people and you'll find they don't think any books kiralık araba should be banned from children.  Mention American Psycho and they talk about kiralık araç the redeeming value of using imagination to construct a story.  Reading, no matter what the content, is largely viewed as a consequenceless activity for people of any age.  The reason why I mention American Psycho is because of the content itself.  Gaming never has and likely never will have any scenes where someone has sex with a severed head.  Not gonna happen.  Yet despite this, they'll fight tooth and nail to protect their children from two boys kissing in Bully but whatever they read is harmless... yeah.

The entire arguement is kiralık oto based upon a social normality inflicted by luddites who can't figure out the controls for Halo so it's frightening and terrifying and obviously the cause of youth violence on the rise even though, in reality, it's in decline (which is actually a HUGE suprise given minibüs kiralama the economies status).  In  a perfect world, we would have parents that actually parent.  The idea of sales restrictions on media on oto kiralama any form to accomidate parental unwillingness to get involved with their child's life is the real problem to me.  Here I am, 32 years old, and being held up at a self-scan rent a car needing to show ID before I can buy a $10 M rated game all because Soccer Momthra can't be bothered to look at the crap Billy Genericallystupidson does in his free time.  It's too hard for her, so I have to suffer?

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

First off, the chicken or the egg... It was the egg. Because what ever laid the egg was not a chicken but what ever came out of the egg was. That is a scientific fact. Wow, I am so sorry that that is so simple as to blow your mind and PISS you off at the same time. Get over it. And this is not the first time someone got mad at being excluded and killed someone or a few people as a response. That can be traced back to being an extremely human trait all the wayas far back as humans history can be traced. (The first governments where the people that either knew the most or where the strongest, and those usually where traced back to those that killed those that challenged their authority or knowledge.) Yes, is life that simple??? Well if you truely belong in this conversation, then yes. If you are still figuring life out, then, well there is the whole learning from grown ups thing that you think isn't worth shit untill you realize that you don't know everything. Whatever. Not like every 30 year old wanted to be 30, untill they where and realized that every 50 year old used to be 18, just like the chicken used to be an egg.

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

Really? i dont believe it.

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

HA! And you can prove that how, Thompson? I'm sorry to inform you, but simply the fact that words came out of that hole on your face you call a mouth does not make them true. I await your reply, in which you'll probably say something that's both insulting and idiotic, backed only by your own (unwarranted) self-righteousness. Oh, and stop being a hypocrite by accusing others of wasting time on this site, while you waste God knows how many hours getting into petty nonsensical, imature tuffles with the posters here, many of whome I can assure you are both more mature and probably more intelligent than yourself.

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

Alternate theory:

 

People believed videogames made him do it because Sonic the Hedgehog games these days are so bad, so devoid of quality that it drove him to kill in rage.

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

I guess if you ask Jack Thompson we can now blame Sonic for the killings.

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

Once again another of JT's theories goes smack into the ground as common sense prevails.

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

I suppose this might be a good point to post this:

http://kotaku.com/5033459/hot-coffee-class-action-suit-squashed-by-the-c...

I'm sure Zelnick stole Jack's lucky streak during their meeting ;)

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

Well, this is not such a simple matter.  Cho removed and presumbably destroyed his hard drive mid-rampage so we do not know what did on his computer.  We do know that he was often seen using it.  We also know that he was very isolated.  Putting the two together, no investigator can really say what he was or was not doing on the computer.  I wish we could.

I believe, however, that in high school he was known to have played some common 1st person shooters.  I'll have to dig around for the reference but I think it was in the V. Tech commission's report describing his high school years and therapy.  If I remember correctly, it was never noted that he played in a obsessive or abnormal way...he probably gamed much the way 90%+ kids do.  But, anyhow, I believe his early gaming went beyond Sonic.  That, though, means little -- afterall, it would be (statistically) abnormal to just play Sonic, these days.

More generally, it appears computers were important to him.  Besides risking arrest by using time to disable his computer before killing the majority of his victims, you might recall he first entered V. Tech having chosen to major in a comp sci- related field.  He was by not computer naive.

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

Well, this is not such a simple matter.  Cho removed and presumbably destroyed his hard drive mid-rampage so we do not know what did on his computer.  We do know that he was often seen using it.  We also know that he was very isolated.  Putting the two together, no investigator can really say what he was or was not doing on the computer.  I wish we could.

Actually, every account about what he was doing was pretty cut and dry. Cho was an English major. he wrote poetry, prose, and stories. He spent his time doing those kinds of things. To my knowledge, the contents of his hard drive were recovered. It does take quite a bit of effort to truly remove the contents off a hard drive, after all.

I believe, however, that in high school he was known to have played some common 1st person shooters.  I'll have to dig around for the reference but I think it was in the V. Tech commission's report describing his high school years and therapy.  If I remember correctly, it was never noted that he played in a obsessive or abnormal way...he probably gamed much the way 90%+ kids do.  But, anyhow, I believe his early gaming went beyond Sonic.  That, though, means little -- afterall, it would be (statistically) abnormal to just play Sonic, these days.

Yeah, that reference would be Jack Thompson's claims that he played counterstrike. With no evidence. With nothing from any investigator's reports. Just him blabbing on the news like it was fact, and people taking it as doctrine. The only game which came up at all in the investigation was Sonic. Even so, if he *did* play a FPS in high school... how would that bear any relevance to his time in college?

More generally, it appears computers were important to him.  Besides risking arrest by using time to disable his computer before killing the majority of his victims, you might recall he first entered V. Tech having chosen to major in a comp sci- related field.  He was by not computer naive.

He was an English major.... By everything I've seen. Understanding how computers work, and being able to use them isn't exactly uncommon any more. Unless you are applying some obscure idea here that since he was familiar with computers, he therefore somehow became dangerous? Or if he was within a certain age range, and familiar with computers, he therefore must be a gamer -- which is a form of profiling. Taking it to the next step would be the total break in logic claiming that because he was a gamer, therefore he must be violent!

Sheesh...

"I'm not responcabel fer my comuter's spleling errnors." -- Xlorep DarkHelm

"I'm stel not responcabel fer my comuter's spleling errnors." -- Xlorep DarkHelm

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

1.  After killing two, Cho returned to his room, bloodstained, to change clothes.  As the police and EMS were responding to the initial killings, he tried to delete his email from the school network.  He then removed the hard drive from his computer and, over the next 30-60 minutes, disposed of it.  It was never recovered.

2.  I reviewed the V Tech report and you are correct.  My error.  There is no reference to any 1st-person shooters in his childhood or college years.  It may have been LaRouche to first claim so but early news reports did push this line.

3.  Cho was initially a Business Technology major - a blend of comp sci and business.  He changed over to become a English major in his Junior year (Fall 2005).

 

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

Points #1 & #3, you are correct, my mistake. Been a while since I went sifting through the whole case.

2.  I reviewed the V Tech report and you are correct.  My error.  There is no reference to any 1st-person shooters in his childhood or college years.  It may have been LaRouche to first claim so but early news reports did push this line.

The problem was that the very day the shooting happened, Jack Thompson got on the air, and claimed he "trained on Counterstrike", on live, mainstream TV News, and also claimed that investigators were in contact with him on the case. He stated it matter of factly, and it was instantly accepted as truth by the media, and a great many people who watched it. His claim made such an impact that it was used in a Washington Post article and almost immediately recinded/edited due to there being abolutely no truth to the claim.

However, the myth of V-Tech Shooting being the result of Video Games has existed ever since Jack Thompson made that statement, and the sad thing is my own girlfriend is convinced that the "evil video games" were the cause of the V-Tech shooting, and I've even tried to show her that it was a lie... to no avail.

"I'm not responcabel fer my comuter's spleling errnors." -- Xlorep DarkHelm

"I'm stel not responcabel fer my comuter's spleling errnors." -- Xlorep DarkHelm

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

I did some more investigation.  The Washington Post reported Cho's game use (Counter Strike), after claiming they interviewed some of his high school classmates.  The Washington Post later removed that reference from their online article. 

The Washington Post NEVER officially retracted the report and, indeed, the reporter still seems to stand by it.  Also, it is worth noting that the Washington Post's position was never confirmed by another news sources, as far as I know.

See: http://www.joystiq.com/2007/04/18/wapo-writer-talks-vt-shooter-counter-s...

If anybody knows differently, please post.

In Cory Doctorow's interview (the one that sparked  the GP thread), he refers to the "coroner's inquest."  I am unfamilar with any such document.  I believe he is talking about the Virginia Tech Review Panel report.  If so, he is correct that the report never documented evidence of game use in high school or college. 

So, for what it is worth, it comes down to the unnamed sources for the Washington Post vs. the Review Panel's report.  Who to believe? 

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

"It may have been LaRouche to first claim so but early news reports did push this line."

Nope, our good friend JT was vomiting this out before the killers identity was known.

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

Just to clarify, the last I heard of the Hard Drive, they were dredging the campus pond to see if it had been thrown in there, he didn't simply wipe the hard drive, he physically removed it from his computer and hid it somewhere, probably physically destroying it first. I could be wrong, but that was my understanding of events.

Personally, I don't see someone going to those lengths to hide a game on their computer, as I stated before, personally I think it's far more likely he was trying to destroy contact details than a Video Game, after all, no video game cases were found, no CD's with games on them etc, that's a heck of a length to go to in order to hide something that is conspicuous by its abscence, as is the case with computer games in a college students' room.

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

I personally think it is more likely that he was in contact with others who shared his 'anarchistic' tendencies via Forums etc, and destroyed the Hard-drive to cover up their existences from Police. There are, after all, places on the Internet where people can post stories much like the ones Cho wrote.

The internet's strength is also it's greatest weakness. It brings people together, it just doesn't put any limits on what people.

As for Video Games, I agree, a bit of dabbling in Video games would seem odd if it didn't happen in a teenagers life these days, I think whatever contact there was with games it was sufficiently removed from the event to be unable to claim to have any discernible impact on Cho's behaviour.

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

I always thought people assumed he played games since he was going for the high score.

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

I often see people saying that video games are not to blame for this tragedy. This is true and I agree with it. However, these people say in the same breath that the V-Tech Killer was "just fucked up" and everything he did was because he was a bad, evil, horrible person. Certainly, he is at fault for his own actions and should be judged by history accordingly, but many are missing the other, non-video game specifics of his report. He was alienated by his peers all his life. His peers would make fun of his accent and tell him to 'go back to China.' In short he was tortured and emasculated by the people he needed acceptance from. It's a very difficult thing to go through. How do I know? I went through the same thing; I had no accent in my English, but I know how to speak Chinese and Japanese. All through my elementary, middle, and high school years, my peers would do things to me that would make most victims of schoolyard violence cry. This wasn't even just the school bullies, it was almost everyone, extending even to some of the teachers; even some kids' parents would encourage their kids if they saw them doing this ("Yeah, you show him who's boss," they'd say). Sometimes I would think suicide was an option because of the treatment I received. I would never think about hurting others, because by nature I am more of a pacifist and always thought that if I took it eventually they'd just stop. They didn't. This kind of lifestyle can make one think of extreme measures - in my cases, possible suicide. In others, like the V-Tech killer, homicide. Are we a victim of the rampage of a homicidal, heartless, and violent maniac who just wanted to kill? Or the product of our society's bigotry and xenophobic tendencies? I'm sorry to say, I have to conclude that it's the latter. When even parents and teachers are encouraging their children/students to pick on people they don't understand, can we truly say that our society is civilized and accepting?

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

I was also teased at school,

 

<p>

 

But my way of taking it was to just run and cry...

 

even if it meant going into the boys bathroom and stay there because I did not feel good about playing with the people who I once consided as friends that were so mean to me.

 

Going up to the teachers and asking for help did little good because all they said to me was,

 

"Oh...big boys don't cry"

 

It did not matter much to them, but it meant allot to me and it was so hurtful.

 

So I can understand why many people who were victims of bullying would feel that way.

 

But in the end, it is our own actions that speek louder than words, and sadly there are some victims of bullying that sometimes turn into homosides to spark attention.

 

Sadly it is often for the wrongs reasons that the mainsteam media also have the amunition to pick on Videogamers...

 

All because we are different than what is considered as being normal

 

If it happened to a person who was Affrican Americam, it would be called racism, and if it happened to anyone else who was different in gender, color, race or religion it would be called Discrimination...

 

Perhaps we as gamers will one day have to make our voice be heard and tell the world that Bullying in the school yard and also from the mass media like they do with us is also discrimination.

 

somehow we have to let our voices be heard for the right reasons in order to end this.

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

Actually, if you'd read the report and not make jackass statements based on your perception, you'd find that Cho would have nothing to do with his classmates for the most part.  When invited to go places, he'd avoid answering and not go.  The only time he talked was in creative writing class, and often he would read some fairly disturbing literature that he wrote.  If you're going to read aloud stories about fantasies of killing, then you should probably not be surprised when people stop talking to you. 

The only person that he DID often talk to was his sister, whom was a crutch for him through high-school.

And if you think you're the only person in the world who was made fun of for being different, I'd advise you grow the fuck up.  That's just ridiculous.  Lots of people were made fun of.  As a child, I was taught English and GAELIC by my family, resulting in an accent picked up from my grandfather.  I was also short.  I was bullied terribly for the first 10 years of my life.  But I didn't decide 'oh no, they're making fun of me, I should kill them and myself', and go into my dad's gun safe.  No, like 75% of all students (the current ACJS estimate for percentage of children bullied in school) I adapted.  I learned how to laugh at my flaws and work to better myself.  I learned how to ignore the comments of others, and I learned that what people say to me and about me doesn't define me. I learned that the differences in America are what makes it so great, and that even differences of opinion have their place.  Bullying is a process that nearly all children go through, and it IS a socializing process.  In schoolyards, children are often mocked before accepted.  In Highschools, people define themselves by what makes them feel different, and bully those who aren't different in the same way. Bullying runs rampant in all levels of life.

And in the end, you find that the bullies often failed at life.  The bullies and jocks from my college, highschool, etc. years are now the same people who I find working drive through lanes in podunk towns, driving automobiles barely working while I drive a new Mercedes-Benz (I actually just bought it because my wife made me, I like my Kia and my Mustang better).

Of course, as we all know, all bullied children shoot up the school.  That's why three out of every four children go on a shooting spree.  Wait, they don't?  Oh.  Hmmm.  Guess your argument is idiotic, eh?  I'm sure its just bigots and xenophobes, because obviously no white kids were ever mocked.  No, the Columbine shooters were asian too.

Face it, the premise your argument was built on is without fact and without merit, and the kind of PC nanny-state bullshit that should have no place in an intelligent discussion. 

 

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

"And if you think you're the only person in the world who was made fun of for being different, I'd advise you grow the fuck up. That's just ridiculous." I read up till here and concluded that you're just a whinebag who had a bad day and wants to take it out on the internet. Nowhere in his posts did he say he was the only one. You obviously didn't read his post.

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

Well Ashton, far from it.   I don't really have bad days; I have a wife to come home to.  It's hard to have a bad day with that kind of support.

Having said that, I have no tolerance for people who want to not read the fucking FBI report and instead make jackass statements.  I read the whole damn thing, plus 2 other reports, plus ate lunch with a guy who had been doing research on it (his research didn't concern video games, but the role CCW could have on a campus) and I saw very little mention of possible bullying in all these.  Nowhere did it mention that he was the victim of years of racist bullying; indeed, it made it out to seem that in college, he segregated himself from the crowd, not the crowd segregating him.

Of course, I have even less tolerance for people who want to suggest that Cho is a product of xenophobia and racism.  He's not.

The truth of the matter is Cho was just a disturbed individual who, without the crutch that was his Sister (she supported him throughout his life until highschool and she was the only person he REALLY communicated with), lost what little contact with reality and society that he was willing to have, and decided he wanted the people around him to suffer.

Of course, because Cho is also Asian, people will suggest he was bullied into it, and jackasses like the OP will make the assumption that, of course, it was racism and xenophobia that drove Cho to kill, not his own instability and general hatred for the people around him.

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

I dunno, to me the OP wasn't so much blaming racism/bigotry for Cho's actions, rather s/he was just saying "Look, this is what happens in our society. We should take a look at it so that when these things happen, we can know we didn't cause it ourselves." I don't know much about the case, but I think do it's a prominent issue, rather than a feelgood scapegoat excuse - regardless of whether the V-Tech killer was actually bullied or not.

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

Like I said, bullying is an important part of school and childhood, and teacehs some valuable lessons.

EDIT

By the way, right here he suggests racism is at fault:
Are we a victim of the rampage of a homicidal, heartless, and violent maniac who just wanted to kill? Or the product of our society's bigotry and xenophobic tendencies? I'm sorry to say, I have to conclude that it's the latter.

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

Welcome to America, my friend.

Note, though, that you can take comfort in the fact that you are far from alone.

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

I can relate to that. I went through hell myself from my middle school/high school peers. I actually snapped once from it. There was nothing premeditated about it, I was simply pushed too hard and I lost control of myself. It's an odd feeling. You get 'tunnel vision', which looks a lot like if you stand up too fast and almost feint. I found out later I knocked the contact out of the eye of my tormenter. The principal of the school told my dad not to punish me for it. Well, I wasn't exactly sticking up for myself. But it is frightening that it's physically possible to lose control of your actions when you are pushed too far. Kids can be jerks, especially in 7th and 8th grade. It usually (but not always) gets better once you hit 9th. I never went to a single school dance. I never attended my prom. Graduation to me was pretty happy just to GTFO of there for good.

The worst the VT kid did was play Sonic? Whoever found that out must not have known to look for emulators on his HDD. This kid sounded like an oldschool gamer if ever there was one.

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

I've only snapped once, and it was also a spur-of-the-moment thing, too.  At our school carnival there was a fundraiser booth where you would pay a dollar to throw a cream pie at a teacher sitting at the other end of the booth.  This was ALWAYS a big hit, since one teacher would write in large, red letters on the dry-erase board that nobody would ever be able to hit him with a cream pie, EVER.  About 90% of the school wanted their opportunity to prove him wrong.

I got in line (which at this point was substantial) and was willing to wait as long as it took to get my chance, when the resident jerkwads of the school come into line behind me.  I had become very good at ignoring stupid people, so I quickly tuned them out as the line slowly progressed.  Half-an-hour later, I'm at the throwing line with my pie.  I cock my hand back to throw...and someone shoves me.  The pie falls to the floor and I hear those people laughing behind me.  At this point, I snapped. 

I picked up what was left of my pie, turned around, and DRILLED it into the ringleader's face.  There was no throw.  It was a solid, open-palm punch with a pie attached to it.  Apparently all hell broke loose after that, but I honestly don't remember anything until about 15 minutes afterward.  The pie-throwing event was banned from the carnival since.  The kicker to this whole fiasco? The jerks who provoked me got a 3 day suspension while nobody even SUSPECTED me. ('What, him?  He'd never hurt a fly.')

The moral of my story?  <sarcasm>PIES INDUCE VIOLENCE.  THEY MUST BE BANNED.</sarcasm>

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

Ugh, that's odd. I had separated that into paragraphs earlier. Sorry about the wall of text.

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

One of the virtues of logging in to post is that you can edit your entries. :D

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

By all accounts, Cory Doctorow really gets it, a successful author who's also a bona fide geek.  I've been hearing phenomenal things about his new novel "Little Brother," and one of these days I should pick it up.

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

It's quite good-- it's a YA novel and it definately reads like one, but that isn't a bad thing. Only problem is how villainous the villains are.

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

Holy hell, someone needs to call into Fox News and CNN, and make this public knowledge.  I feel like a dumbass for believing that...  Now I know...  Now I know...  It truely is only people trying to either get off easy or make money who say, it was the video games that made me do it.

I thought this guy was a nut job and would have done it anyways, but that he had played video games and stuff that may have peaked his aggression at other times that ended up causing this to happen earlier... 

Either way, if the ECA would pay me $50,000 I would go gather statistics and only process true information for them to use at true studies about this stuff.

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

Oh, and I would give GP permission to give them my email address if ESA was actually interested too, but I must admit, I normally use my junk mail email account other than this post right here.  (Oddly enough, I go to forums and make posts, and they say it is only for contact information for the site in case they want to contact you for one reason or another, and they actually sell out your email address to spammers...)

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

"Power don't come from a badge or a gun. Power comes from lying. Lying big, and gettin' the whole damn world to play along with you. Once you got everybody agreeing with what they know in their hearts ain't true, you've got e'm by the balls."

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

Why is this under Jack Thompson tag? Don´t summon him, GP...

 

The cynical side of videogames (spanish only): http://thelostlevel.blogspot.com/ My DeviantArt Page (aka DeviantCensorship): http://www.darkknightstrikes.deviantart.com/

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

Because much of this belief comes from that famous Thompson 'interview' that occured before the killer had even been named. Never has a truer phrase been coined than 'massacre chaser'.

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

*slow clap*

I like pretty much everything this guy had to say.

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

To be fair the last Sonic The Hedgehog made me want to blow up Sega.

Take That Jack Thompson

As much as you want to believe it, Jack, and you want to make others believe it, the proof is in the preverbial pudding.  Now take that and stick it where the sun don't shine!

 

Sortableturnip's Law: As an online discussion of video game violence grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Jack Thompson approaches 1

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

The main reason that people believe the Video Games had something to do with VT is because Thompson and others keep repeating this lie ad-nauseum in the hope that enough people will hear it and think it is the truth.

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

There was also the retracted Washington Post story.  Jack Thompson likes to assert that they were "pressured" by the "video game companies".  If the government can't pressure the Washington Post, what makes you think video game companies can? ;)

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

Well, as Joseph Stalin said "A lie told often enough becomes truth."

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

Exactly, and that is precisely the method that he uses, and I can't even say he uses it in ignorance, he knows exactly what he is doing, he knows that he is lying, but his only chance of saving his career is to get people to believe a lie, because the truth has him screwed.

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

The thing I'm reminded of when JT claims that he knows the "Truth" are two lines from the series Babylon 5. Simply, they are "Truth changes on a daily basis." and "Truth is fluid, the truth is subjective, the truth is flexible."

Let me explain, and example was that during WWII Germany, Japan, and Italy were our enemies, that is the truth, except there were groups of German officers who were working against the government in order to end the war, that is fact. Or that Russia was our ally during the war, and that was the truth, but almost immediately after the war they were our enemies, which was also the truth.

Basically, it's all subjective, that people will believe whatever they want to believe as the truth, but the facts get ignored when it suits ones' purpose.



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Reviews on the best, worst, and controversial issues of Videogames.
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"The Good, the Bad, and the Videogame" Reviews on the best, worst, and controversial issues of Videogames. gryphonosiris.blogspot.com/

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

Great show and sad it ended.  There was still much potential in the story line.  I always liked Kosh's line:  Understanding is a three edged sword. Your side, their side, and the truth.

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

I used to love that show myself, but I'm glad it ended when it did. (It was explicitly planned to last 5 seasons, no more)

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

That's where I got my screen-name from ;)

As for the content of Video Games, don't buy it for a moment, we clawed, bit, stabbed, slashed, sliced, burned and irradiated ourselves to where we are today, and that's just recorded history, to say video games make people violent is like saying you get cows from milk, the product does not create the producer. Humanity controls it's natural tendency to violence with distraction techniques mostly, games, challenges, threats, the boardroom has replaced the Command tent, the marketplace has become the frontline, but the human urge to compete and to challenge their own limits, will always be as strong as the urge to 'scare themselves' using Horror movies, Fairground rides and, yes, Video Games.

Personally, however, I think they are looking at the problem from completely the wrong end of the spectrum, it's easy to see how considering they are a government, and it's easier to say, 'These games absorb people into another reality and they become addicted to it.' than to say 'These people are reaching into virtual worlds because of their dissatisfaction with the one they live in, and the fact they feel almost powerless to change it. They are ignored and a stereotype of a 'fat kid in his parents basement' was created to help make them even less 'worth listening to.'

That said, the level of vehemence that some gamers respnd to criticism with doesn't always do that community many favours unfortunately, though that, admittedly, is frequently born of the same frustration.

 

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

"Broad Consensus" seems like a little much, there are some maybe but without some kind of backing claiming that that is the majority posistion is a little iffy. 

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

 Why don't people ever listen to the shooters? They all explained why they did it in their pre-strike videos. V-Tech, Columbine, Jonesboro, Mike Carneal, and the list goes on. 

They're tired of taking the other kids' crap everyday. There's no room for speculation.

They're so precise on their reasons, but no one pays attention. They point fingers everywhere else, but themselves.

(P.S. I certainly don't approve of any of the shootings, but when you want to know a murderer's motive, first thing to look at is their connection to the victims.)

Re: BoingBoing's Cory Doctorow: People Believe V-Tech Killer

Exactly.  The only thing you need to look at is their life and their treatment in most cases.  As for Cho, he was unbalanced, that's all there is to it.  He made his reasons clear in his video.  There's not some 'hidden link'.  He was an angry child who got sick of feeling alone and wanted to make others suffer too.

 
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MaskedPixelantehttp://www.joystiq.com/2014/04/23/another-world-rated-for-current-consoles-handhelds-in-germany/ Another World fulfills legal obligations of being on every gaming system under the sun.04/23/2014 - 12:34pm
Matthew Wilsonhttp://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/04/steam-gauge-do-strong-reviews-lead-to-stronger-sales-on-steam/?comments=1 Here is another data driven article using sales data from steam to figure out if reviews effect sales. It is stats heavy like the last one.04/23/2014 - 11:33am
Andrew EisenI love RPGs but I didn't much care for Tales of Symphonia. I didn't bother with its sequel.04/23/2014 - 11:21am
InfophileIt had great RPGs because MS wanted to use them to break into Japan. (Which had the side-effect of screwing NA PS3 owners out of Tales of Vesperia. No, I'm not bitter, why do you ask?)04/23/2014 - 10:52am
RedMageI'm still disappointed the 360 never broke into Japan either. It had a bevy of great RPGs in the late 2000s.04/23/2014 - 9:48am
TheSmokeyhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/22/call-of-duty-swatting-hoax_n_5195659.html?utm_hp_ref=canada&ir=Canada CoD loser calls SWAT on person who beat him04/23/2014 - 7:13am
MaskedPixelantehttp://www.joystiq.com/2014/04/23/xbox-one-reaches-japan-on-september-4/ Just give it up, Microsoft. You're NEVER going to be big in Japan, especially now that the notoriously clunky in Japan Kinect is MANDATORY.04/23/2014 - 7:10am
Cheater87Has this been posted yet? http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/Lord+Spencer/ssv-saudi-arabia-bans-bravely-default-because-it-promotes-pedophilia--272016.phtml04/22/2014 - 9:31pm
ZippyDSMleehttp://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/133898-Fatal-Frame-V-Coming-Exclusively-to-Wii-U04/22/2014 - 8:50pm
Matthew Wilsonit is a game worth playing if you have a pc/360/ps304/20/2014 - 9:34pm
MaskedPixelantehttps://twitter.com/IGLevine/status/457552538343325696 The Lutece Twins show up in some of the most unlikely of places.04/20/2014 - 2:44pm
Andrew EisenAs it happens, Chinatown Wars is the only GTA game I've played.04/19/2014 - 10:43am
Papa MidnightWith GTA5 (to date) failing to even provide indication of a PC release, I'm realising that this might be the first GTA game that I have not played (outside of Chinatown Wars) since the series inception.04/19/2014 - 8:14am
IanCSo im guessing a bunch of edutainment games, which a lot of people elsewhere are going gaga over, dot count as classics? Okay. If you don't mind me, i have a sudden urge to play Putt Putt....04/19/2014 - 6:15am
MaskedPixelantehttp://www.joystiq.com/2014/04/18/playstation-99-cent-sale-discounts-tokyo-jungle-super-stardust/ Weekend long PSN flash sale. So much stuff is 99 cents for the rest of the weekend.04/18/2014 - 5:59pm
Adam802http://www.polygon.com/2014/4/18/5627928/newtown-video-game-addiction-forum04/18/2014 - 4:14pm
Matthew Wilsonit is a video talking about why certain games/products/consoles do well, and others do not. he back it up with solid research.04/18/2014 - 3:56pm
Andrew EisenI'm not keen on blind links. What is it?04/18/2014 - 3:45pm
Matthew Wilsonthis is worth a whatch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyXcr6sDRtw&list=PL35FE5C4B157509C904/18/2014 - 3:43pm
MaskedPixelanteNumber 3: Night Dive was brought to the attention of the public by a massive game recovery, and yet most of their released catalogue consists of games that other people did the hard work of getting re-released.04/17/2014 - 8:46pm
 

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