Is Killing in Video Games a Sin?

Violent video games are not quite sinful but can involved "departures from God’s will," according to the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod.

The issue was raised as a question by a reader of the Synod’s website:

Q: I’m very sure that killing/suicide stealing and anything like that is not accounted as an actual sin if it’s only in video games. But I’m still not very sure, when I play video games, I’m not murdering at heart because I would never try to take the life of any living thing. And whatever is a video game can’t die because it’s not alive in the first place, video games are a false alternate reality…

A: As normally defined, taking the life of another in video games (as in acting or in any other fantasy situation) is not a sin against God’s prohibition to murder. If, however, what is done in the video game is an expression of hatred or callous disregard for human life, then the heart and motives are wrong, and then it is sin in God’s eyes…

 

For the record, however, obsession with video games can involve other departures from God’s will… Typically, this can involve a colossal misuse of valuable time and also end up diverting time and attention from more useful and valuable pursuits that better glorify God and serve our neighbor…

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128 comments

  1. Anonymous says:

    He didn’t. He posted a lawsuit against a whole bunch of people in the Florida law system, and it got flagged. Oh, well….

  2. Clever says:

    I agree with you that people aren’t going to neccessarily "get" a religious message if they aren’t already in a position to understand it. But these are exactly the type of people we need to reach to at least show them that we aren’t the hateful bunch of hypocrites that get all the air time. None of us are perfect – not one, it’s what we strive for in our relationship with God and what comes from the heart that matters. I just find it so sad that as soon as God is mentioned in an article that pretty much agrees with the general consensus on the non-existant threat to morality that is gaming everybody has to turn it into a battle of teenage wits that never moves past the Old Testament… PAT ROBERTSON DOES NOT REPRESENT US…

  3. Oz says:

    Matthew 5:28 says "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

    That verse is one of the verses that just show Jesus of Nazarath was just plain out evil. Trying to set up a totalitarian dictatorship by making up impossible standards "so you need to be saved". What an asshole!

  4. Kincyr says:

    exactly, the bible defines murder as "taking one’s life against the law"
    self-defense is okay
    war is okay
    killing witches (Leviticus 20:27) is okay
    killing someone when god tells you to is okay, though in this day and age, you’ll get thrown in the loony bin

    岩「…Ace beats Jack」

  5. Anonymous says:

    Because video games teach you to learn when things don’t work and otherwise think for yourself. Not a good thing in organized religions.

  6. Anonymous says:

    I agree with you, for two reasons. Firstly, this is not Religionpolitics, and secondly, regardless of what anyone says, be it pro- or anti- religion, it isn’t going to change anyone else’s stance one whit.

    There’s an old saying that goes ‘don’t preach to the choir’, I think it applies here, because the only people who are ever going to agree with someone elses’ religious position is someone who already agreed with it.

  7. Ben says:

    I agree that all of the constant attacks on gaming tends to make people here paranoid.

    However, this man didn’t say anything wrong. By "Serve our neighboor," he means that we should help our friends and those around us. Is that really such a bad thing? He has good intentions and was fair towards all forms of media. The religion bashing on here is getting ridiculous and needs to stop.

  8. Shadow Darkman Anti-Thesis of Jack Thompson says:

    Thompson Effect is too often inflicted.

    ——————————————————————————————————–

    I AM DOOMED TO HAUNT JACK THOMPSON’S DREAMS UNTIL HIS CRUSADE AGAINST VIDEO GAMES ENDS.

  9. Anonymous says:

    I call it the ‘Thompson effect’, spend enough time around someone who hates you enough to wish you dead and you start to get paranoid.

  10. TBoneTony ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Plus I was not commenting on the person’s responce, but rather to the question on the title.

     

    I am so happy at least that he did not go onto the same opinion that other people do like "Burn Videogames because they corrupt our youth"

     

    I feel that this guy in some way has understood that even people of his own religion sometimes judges others  without getting to know them in return.

  11. Ben says:

    Come on guys, this guys response was aimed at someone who already has faith, so of course its not going to carry the same meaning to an atheist. You should all just be happy that he didn’t go on a "video games are evil" rant.

    Just out of curiosity, what exactly will make you people happy? Not everyone in the world is going to like games, end of story.

  12. Anonymous says:

    I’d still have to say no.  Pixels are not living things, so I’d still have to say doing things against them still can’t be considered a sin.

  13. Anonymous says:

    Lol God people still believe in him? please grow up and realize your gonna die and nothing good is gonna happen.

  14. TBoneTony ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    All that I need to say is,

     

    1. Killing in a Videogame is not like real life,

     

    2. Playing GTA for example can give you a challenge of trying to finish the game without trying to kill someone unless if your own life is in danger or if it is related to the storyline that needs to be carried out.

     

    3. Playing Videogames to some people may seem like a waste of time, but it is fun and having fun is time well spent.

     

    Stuff what other people believe. just have fun playing Videogames because I don’t give a stuff about what other people think as they try to make me feel bad about myself all because I am different compared to what other people consider as normal.

     

    In God’s eyes, I am who I am and no one can change that.

     

    from TBoneTony

     

  15. Anonymous says:

    In most games killing is in self defence. If you didn’t kill them then they would kill you. Not to mention that they are bad guys trying to take over the world, capture the princess, etc.

    I suppose you could turn the other cheek but that’s a quick way to get your head ripped off and on a pike.

  16. Father Time says:

    So does hating a certain boss because he/she/it is annoying, very hard and uses what I consider cheap moves, a sin then?

  17. MrKlorox says:

    "The people in any video game are not real, living people that are going to care if you kill them or not. They are artificial constructs composed of graphics and code, generated by a hunk of circuits housed in a shiny plastic and/or metal case and projected onto TV screen."

    Who is to say that is not what this existence is?

  18. GdRobotUs says:

    I agree with the guy to a certain extent, the thing about computer games is the challenge, whether it’s ducks or a bio-engineered Nazi killing machine, it’s really about point and click, and most people understand that.

    Unfortunately, you get people (on both sides of the divide) who don’t.

  19. GRIZZAM PRIME says:

    Honestly, I’m kinda impressed. It was a very reasonable response.

     

    -Remember kids, personal responsibility is for losers! For information on games and psychology, look up: Jonathan Freedman(2002)Block & Crain(2007) Just to name a few…

  20. Anonymous says:

    no, it doesn’t, but if you hate jews or black people or white people, and project your HATRED and ANGER against those virtual victims, THAT is what makes you a sinner, not the act of ending virtual lives, but the emotions connected with such an ending.

    If you just like to watch people die, as entertainment and not bloodlust, then thats fine.

  21. Xlorep DarkHelm says:

    Nope, not at all. If you hated and were angry with the fake people, the hatred would be wrong, and be a sin, but that is regardless to whatever medium is being presented.

    "I’m not responcabel fer my comuter’s spleling errnors." — Xlorep DarkHelm

  22. Xlorep DarkHelm says:

    It actually has been the overwhelming anti-religious sentiment among the posters in this site’s forums that have pushed me away from ever going to them again. The knee-jerk hatred and bile responses are more than just getting old, it is blatantly offensive, and daring anyone to try to stand up to it and get bashed for it. All more or less permitted without any real moderation or control, I just plain got fed up with it, which is a shame, because I did like this site’s forums.

    "I’m not responcabel fer my comuter’s spleling errnors." — Xlorep DarkHelm

  23. Father Time says:

    Wait a minute, I love over the top violent games, and I’ve complained that Saw isn’t always gruesome enough (that and the plot seems far fetched and annoying). So does playing violent games partly because I like to see fake people die in horrible ways make me a sinner?

  24. JustChris says:

    On the same view as you. I read this as "It’s fine to do what the game tells you to do, but don’t mix it with your real-life lust for sin".

    The average person has as much bloodlust killing virtual people as they do kicking rocks on the sidewalk or throwing beanbags at those cardboard targets in carnival games. Only difference is in the excitement involved. But that excitement in games shouldn’t come from your fantasy of real-life murders.

    Most people play aggressively so they can toot their horn and make others feel humilated if you are playing with others. It may be questionable as to whether humiliation is ok in God’s view, and too much pride is considered sinful (and annoying too, if you ever encounter a guy who doesn’t shut up). But usually it’s all in lighthearted fun and nobody takes offense at losing unless someone throws a fit.

  25. Anonymous says:

    Hmm…This guy’s actually on point. I’m impressed.

    I’m also impressed at Jack’s ability to restrain himself this time. What a good little monkey.

  26. Xlorep DarkHelm says:

    Exactly, basically, the response given is pretty much what people on this very site have wanted to see a religious group profess:

    1. Video Games are not evil.

    2. The individual gamer is responsible for his or her own actions.

    3. Obsessing about anything (video games, TV, etc.) is generally unhealthy and not good.

    "I’m not responcabel fer my comuter’s spleling errnors." — Xlorep DarkHelm

  27. Xlorep DarkHelm says:

    But the point is that it isn’t a sin. Contrary to the fundamentalist Bible-thumping whackos (of which, the WELS is not a part) who believe the Bible is against violence, the truth of the matter is it isn’t. The Bible is against murder, which is a very specific kind of killing — killing someone else for personal gain (like, killing someone because you hate that person and feel you’d be better off without him or her still being alive). Heck, the Bible is pretty full of all kinds of violence in it, some good, some not so good.

    Violent video games are not inherently evil. They are a form of entertainment, and what the individual player does with the game, that could easily be for simple, good entertainment purposes. It is arguable that even using a game like that to dump otherwise uncontrolled anger and rage into the game, rather than into another human being is a noble cause, however there also is something to be said about confronting whatever has built that rage within yourself, and resolve that problem so then you don’t need a video game to vent your anger, because you’ve separated yourself from your anger.

    "I’m not responcabel fer my comuter’s spleling errnors." — Xlorep DarkHelm

  28. TheEdge says:

    Ya know,I’ve always wondered that.I don’t think it’s a sin,cause the people/creatures you’re killing aren’t real.It’s a game.

  29. Xlorep DarkHelm says:

    Whether or not those people in the video game are real is immaterial. The motivations and path your heart and mind are taking while playing the game, that is what is important. I personally have no problem with slapping in a GTA or Res. Evil game and blowing people/creatures away in it — I bear no hatred or animosity in my heart for it, as I know it is a game, and that is part of the game. If I was filled with hate, and for some reason hated the monsters in the game (it is, after all, a game, right? Seems a bit silly to hate some batch of pixels…), and was doing it, the hate would be wrong.

    "I’m not responcabel fer my comuter’s spleling errnors." — Xlorep DarkHelm

  30. Xlorep DarkHelm says:

    Exactly, only you, and God knows what is in your heart, or what is your motivation. If it is filled with hate and anger, it really doesn’t matter what you are doing, that hate and anger makes it wrong. But, the church, or really, anyone living in this world really cannot make that judgment call, it is something personal between you and God, nothing more.

    "I’m not responcabel fer my comuter’s spleling errnors." — Xlorep DarkHelm

  31. Anonymous says:

    Come on people, are you actually reading what the guy said? Here’s his entire response, with a couple of things bolded.

    "As normally defined, taking the life of another in video games (as in acting or in any other fantasy situation) is not a sin against God’s prohibition to murder. If, however, what is done in the video game is an expression of hatred or callous disregard for human life, then the heart and motives are wrong, and then it is sin in God’s eyes. But if this activity is pure entertainment and not an expression of lovelessness against any fellow human being, it isn’t murder.

    For the record, however, obsession with video games can involve other departures from God’s will for his dearly loved and redeemed people. Typically, this can involve a colossal misuse of valuable time and also end up diverting time and attention from more useful and valuable pursuits that better glorify God and serve our neighbor. The same, of course, is true of a lot of forms of entertainment or diversions from useful labor or education (e.g., watching TV, movies, constantly listening to music but doing little other than that)."

    He’s not saying killing people in video games is sinful. He’s not singling out video games as a bad activity or automatically a misuse of time.

    He’s saying don’t blur fantasy and reality and inject real-life hatreds against people into a video game. He’s saying video games are entertainment, and therefore don’t obsess over them to the point where important things suffer. Perfectly reasonable things, in my view, and in most people’s views I think. If only more people here actually understood what he was saying instead of automatically thinking "Oh, a religious guy is talking about video games, it must be an unjustified attack by an ignorant fool."

  32. Tim the Slipperman ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    I don’t see killing in a video game as sinful.  I mean, technically, it’s just pixellated images on a screen!

    Even Jack Thompson would realize that, if he and that fat pig-faced talk-radio jerk Michael Savage could ever get their heads out of each-other’s butts! (And I hope Jack relays this message to Savage, too!)

    Tim (aka the Slipperman)

  33. Benjamin Snow says:

    "It’s okay to kill an enemy in games like Metal Gear Solid and SOCOM, but only a fool would kill somebody in real life or try to say that video games made them kill people!"

     

    This came from an old youth pastor of mines, who was also a bit of a gamer himself.  \

     

    Why can’t other men of God could had been like my pastor?

     

    -Snow_Storm

  34. Anonymous says:

    I believe that was what the guy was trying to get at with his answer. That when people take real-life hatreds and apply them to their actions in the game, it becomes a problem. At least that’s how I understood his words.

  35. Anonymous says:

    In a nutshell? Yes, I would view that as sinful.

    If the player is shooting people in a video game, in and of itself, the act is not sinful, as there is nobody being sinned against. Everyone he’s shooting is little more than a graphic running on code; odds are good that’s all he sees when he pulls the trigger.

    In your example, the person killing people in a game is still not a sin in and of itself. However, his motives behind the "killings" are sinful; he’s using the game characters as effegies against real people. Therein lies the sin; because he is using the game characters to take out his hatred toward (in this case) black people, there is now someone to sin against: black people.

    As long as there’s no person connected to a certain character, there is nobody to sin against, therefore, no sin is committed in killing him. It’s when that character is associated with a real person in the player’s mind that the killing becomes a sin, because now there’s a real person that can be sinned against involved.

    Now, multiplayer can be placed in the same light, except the concept is reversed; there IS someone to sin against, but any "sin" taking place is directed toward the avatars, not the players controlling them. Go watch a Halo match on Youtube; players are laughing and cutting up with each other, even while their avs are getting headshotted. Nobody’s trying to kill anybody, here. It’s all in the spirit of competition, just like hitting someone with a ball in dodgeball or pelting someone with paint in paintball.

  36. RaZor5 says:

    You’re an atheist because Christians say stupid things?  Wow, I can’t imagine the trouble you have being a human. 😉

  37. RaZor5 says:

    Not all religious people are right-wing wingnuts.  Just saying.

    Actually, a great deal of us are moderates who believe in things like science and understand scripture in a very different matter than the biblical literalists who get all the press because they’re, well, loud and crazy.  For the record as a trained theologian I can say that the Earth is assuredly far more than 7,000 years old (science tells us that), homosexuality is a lot more complicated a topic than our media portrays the religious viewpoint (I personally don’t feel it’s a sin), and if you play video games you aren’t damned to Hell.

    The WELS (Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod) is a very conservative branch of Lutheran Christianity, not representative of 90% of Lutherans out there.  Just like there are a ton of different Baptist organizations (not all of which are Biblical literalists) there are a lot of different sects of many denominations of Christianity.  There are many different views on a great deal of issues.  To say that all Christians are the same and push their views on others is like saying that all Republicans hate science (there ARE a couple that don’t, I checked!) or that there is no difference between Shia and Sunni (thanks, Dubya).

    In short, let’s keep from broad generalizations, okay?

  38. Anonymous says:

    I’d have to say no.  Igorning all the anti-religion that’s going on in this thread, I’ll just point it out plain and simple.  The people in video games like GTA or Saint’s Row are not real, so honestly, I’d have to say no.

  39. Sebastian says:

    "I’m not sure what inspires the overwhelming anti-religious sentiment among gamers"

    Because religious people have the overwhelming tendency of not only being against video games in general, but also to force their views on others, and that’s a real problem. Look at christian initiatives against gay marriage, to teach creationism in schools, or – to not only scorn christianity – muslims crying for censorship in Europe or sharia courts in the UK.
    Listen, in private, you can believe what you want. You believe that the earth is 6000 years old, or that your soul comes from an alien being placed in a volcano 75 billion years ago? Fine by me – just don’t force such ludicrous bullshit on me, ok?

     

  40. Anonymous says:

    Here’s a question for you, though. What if a horrible racist were to get a hold of Resident Evil 5, and play the game, and then imagine that the zombies aren’t actually zombies. He hates black people, and therefore imagines that he’s killing normal people while he mows down zombies, takes pleasure from the thought.

    Would you find that to be sinful behavior? And even if you didn’t, would you find it odd for others to view it as sinful behavior?

  41. Anonymous says:

    While I personally agree with where they’re coming from, I think they’re ignoring one key fact about video games that negates whatever point they’re trying to make.

    The people in any video game are not real, living people that are going to care if you kill them or not. They are artificial constructs composed of graphics and code, generated by a hunk of circuits housed in a shiny plastic and/or metal case and projected onto TV screen. Any action they take for, against, or as a result of a player’s actions are prescripted by a programmer and initiated by the same hardware responsible for their mere existence. They are robots made of code, nothing more.

    The Bible covers interactions with real, flesh-and-blood human beings, not interactions with inanimate, graphics-and-computer-code constructs. That said, I believe that killing people in a video game is no more of a sin than cramming a firecracker up a Tickle-Me Elmo’s butt and lighting it off just for kicks or putting a Furby into a microwave just to watch him melt. They’re inanimate objects, they’re not going to care what happens to them.

     

    Now, I will agree that too much is bad for you. In moderation, video games are a great way to have fun with friends, but in excess, they can guarantee that you won’t have many friends to have fun with, online or off. This is speaking from personal experience; too much gaming can ruin you.

  42. Adric says:

    The article is directed to a Christian audience, and they are assumed to be attempting to follow God’s commands and the teachings of the Bible. Thus, the passage has applicability to this article and to Christians. If you are not a Christian, you are not the main intended audience, and are also not expected to be following Christian standards.

    If you are saying that as a Christian, though, I would suggest praying and contemplating why you think that way about the passage.

  43. Anonymous says:

    He does, in that very same article. The complete answer is listed in the link, and includes this little bit:

    "The same, of course, is true of a lot of forms of entertainment or diversions from useful labor or education (e.g., watching TV, movies, constantly listening to music but doing little other than that)."

    I don’t have any problem with what this guy said, really, it just being misunderstood by a lot of people. Obsession with an form of entertainment is generally not a good thing.

  44. BrandonL337 says:

    It could be the overwelming number of religious people who are anti-games/gamers or at least their were untill churches heard about Halo and thought it was good wholesome cristian fun which i find ironic

    United we Stand, Divided we fall.

  45. Brokenscope says:


    That is an interesting assumption to make, for all you know he has told some just that. I bet he has told more than one person that missing church for a Sunday football game is bad.

  46. G-Dog says:

    I’d like to point out something that grinds my gears when the "Video Games are a waste of time" card gets played.

    How is sitting in front of the TV for three hours playing, say, Forza 2 any more of a time waster than watching a Football game for the same ammount of time? But you never hear anything about viewing sports making Jesus cry.

  47. Xlorep DarkHelm says:

    As the W.E.L.S. is the synod I am a member of, I am glad to see a very simple position on this — violent video games aren’t inherently sinful, rather than using the stndard scapegoat, the synod is basically placing the responsibility on the individual player for his or her own actions.

    The rest of it is a pretty cut and dry, standard concept that basiclly obsessing over video games, like obsessing over anything, is generally not a good thing.

    "I’m not responcabel fer my comuter’s spleling errnors." — Xlorep DarkHelm

  48. Adric says:

    @DarkSaber

    The idea there is that if you truly glorify God, then serving your neighbor will be a logical result. In the Christian worldview, God is the ultimate authority, so primary allegiance goes to him. Following God’s commands should then come from a desire to follow his will.

    @DoggySpew

    What they’re saying is that your mental state is a determinant in whether or not your actions in-game are a sin. Matthew 5:28 says "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." The gist is that by focusing your mind on doing sinful things, you create sinful patterns of thought. By keeping your mind away from doing sinful things, you are more likely to refrain from sinning intentionally.

  49. Coyote's Grin says:

    I knew i shouldn’t have clicked on the comments, but I couldn’t stop myself.

    I’m not sure what inspires the overwhelming anti-religious sentiment among gamers, but it gets real old, real fast.

    Here’s the cliffnotes version of the Reverend’s statement for those that didn’t even finish the title before they started spewing flames.

    1) Playing violent games is not wrong, playing out violent games purely to indulge in the violence is. It’s worth noting that one of our go-to defenses against the anti-gaming lobby is that violent games don’t make people violent, but violent people do play violent games.

    2) Playing games obsessively is bad (ie way more than is healthy). That’s time that could be better spent working, volunteering, or spending time with your family.

  50. oto kirlama says:

    Gallagher can araç kiralama say all he wants, but I strongly rent a car believe it’s due to his crappy leadership and E3 being a joke. ESA’s Board of Directors need to find a way to get out rent a car of this horrid contract with this Bush cronie before there’s no one left on the Board.

    Btw, I think Atari and Midway will drop out too, but mostly travesti because  these guys have done nothing ttnet vitamin or little and need to start saving costs.

    YES.

    Now I don’t have to get off my ass for the important shit anymore!

    Whats next, ordering pizza from Xbox live?

    Wait… I think that sounds like a good idea.

    But I think voting should MAKE you get off your ass, and see outside or a second while you go vote. I mean, your picking the president of the United States of America for God’s Sake… least you can do is drive down there and punch out a card.

     

  51. sqlrob says:

    Plainly? How many translations and commentaries are there on the Bible?

    To me, plainly means unambigous. There’s plenty of ambiguity given the number of Biblical Scholars.

     

  52. Anonymous ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    hahaha, how about that the Jesus stories were taken from Egyptian stories, as well as the Noah flood, which as also taken from Babylonian and Sumerian religious books.  If there were copyright laws since the beginning of time, the Bible would be in court for stealing stories.

  53. Oz says:

    The fact that the Jesus story came about after the Egyption ‘Book of the Dead’ was legally out of copyright should really tell you something

  54. Anonymous says:

    Too bad the Egyptians did throw DRM into the story of the god who died and lived again. Green’s a cooler color for a god, anyway.

  55. Anonymous says:

    But why would all-knowing and all-powerful Jehova allow his cheerleaders to do that if it wasn’t his will that he be portrayed as an asshole?

  56. Chuma says:

    A good example of using the Bible to further an agenda?  King James Bible.

    The phrase "those that poison" was changed to "witch".  The passage about not suffering a witch to live did not exist, it was all about those that poison others.  It was changed, you guessed it, to repress women and serve and agenda.

    Ain’t religion fun? (especially in the hands of bigots and racists and other assorted assholes)

  57. Kajex says:

    When- and how- the hell did ‘God" pick up a pen, or run a printing press? Was he there for the editorial process? Were there any "creative liberties" taken?

    The book is written by humans. Regardless of whether or not they were high or if the really WERE talking to "God", that doesn’t mean there’s no room for error or misinterpretation.

  58. Neeneko says:

    The problem is the bible is quite inconsistant and when taken outside of it’s historical context becomes meaningless.

    Sure, a child can understand it, but a child will walk away with a very shallow understanding that is in many ways wrong and misses the point.

    The bible is also filled with mutual exclusion so even if one DOES get it, they usually get to pick and choose which parts they are going to follow and which parts they are not, so it is less about God’s will and more about making God a scapegoat for their own choices.

  59. Korax ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    It may be written, but it’s written by men, who had their own agendas, and likely edited quite a few times during history. Written in a way you can interpret almost anything any way you like, for any situation you want to apply.

    Anyway, this could very easily turn into a flame war, so let’s leave it at that, agreeing to disagree. I have no problem with anyone believing anything (even the Great Potato, if you will), as long as it don’t interfere with me or the advancement of civilization.

  60. Xlorep DarkHelm says:

    Poor English translations not withstanding.

    "I’m not responcabel fer my comuter’s spleling errnors." — Xlorep DarkHelm

  61. Xlorep DarkHelm says:

    No need to pretend. God’s will is written out, quite plainly, in the Bible. Written so a child can understand it.

    "I’m not responcabel fer my comuter’s spleling errnors." — Xlorep DarkHelm

  62. Oz says:

    And these guys right here put the importance of "Glorfying God" before "serving our neighbor." That shows you they have their hearts in the right place, not just blatent, political self-righteousness.

    How on earth do you justify that? Its a church equvielnt of saying "maximise shareholder value" comes before "delivering quality products to consumers!

  63. Oz says:

    I thought this nutbag would have just quoted the "symbolic sin is still sin" and be done with it. At the end of the day he gets this from a book that glorifies ethnic clensing so this "god" character is quite the hypocrite.

  64. Xlorep DarkHelm says:

    God cares about what is in your heart. If you have evil in your heart, He knows it. Whether you act out that evil against other real people or not is irrelevant.

    "I’m not responcabel fer my comuter’s spleling errnors." — Xlorep DarkHelm

  65. Anonymous ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    It is a video game, not a real person, so I doubt he really cares.  As long as you don’t do the same thing in real life to someone.

  66. RobotJax says:

    Whoa, back up a sec…

    If some one in a film was a bad guy and done something bad (e.g. Killed the good guy’s son or something like that) and I hated the villian for doing that and felt good when the bad guy was killed by the good guy, does that mean I sinned?

     

    What kind of bizzare logic is that?  

  67. Anonymous says:

    You all raise some very interesting comments. However, I have a question: I am not religious, I respect life and such.  I get bullied frequently at my school, when I get home I play ‘Manhunt’ to release my anger and stress. It is cathatic to me. Have I sinned?

  68. Xlorep DarkHelm says:

    My poin is that the initial argument was a fallacy. It would be like accusing all gamers as being rampant murderers because the Columbine guys happened to play DOOM. When you take specific situations and apply a blanket rule to a general population from it, you are little better than ol’ Jackie boy.

    However, I’m rapidly losing any faith or hope of a sane and mature discussion in this article, it seems instead religion bashing is on the platter, doesn’t matter if the article was pointing out hat there is at least one church organization that happens to agree with gamers that Games aren’t inherently evil. All that seems to matter is "religion is bad!" and I’m tired of it. Thanks to the people here, I’ll probably just stop bothering with this site any further. It is a real shame that it has come to this.

    "I’m not responcabel fer my comuter’s spleling errnors." — Xlorep DarkHelm

  69. Oz says:

    The Catholics don’t exactly have a monopoly on child rape you know. There are many reports of the same crimes from evangelical pastors, Anglican preists, etc. Protastants have the same issue too.

    To be fair Christianity doesn’t exactly have a monopoly on this issue either, schools and scouts also share this problem. The Catholic Church is an easy target because its so common due to their size and have had very high ranking figures participating in cover ups (the current pope in his last role included).

    But dont think your non-catholic churches are free from paedophile preists and pastors. Baptists, pentecostals, methodists, evangelicals, anglicans have all had these sick f**k’s under their banners so don’t start getting all high and mighty.

    Look at that Mormon sect that was busted earlier this year!

    Another Fail!

  70. E. Zachary Knight says:

    That is because Christ taught that the Greatest of all commandments is to love God with all your heart might mind and strenghth. The second greatest commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself.

    E. Zachary Knight
    http://www.editorialgames.com
    Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
    MySpace Page: http://www.myspace.com/okceca
    Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1325674091


    E. Zachary Knight
    Divine Knight Gaming
    Oklahoma Game Development
    Rusty Outlook
    Random Tower
    My Patreon

  71. Anonymous says:

    Agreed, then we would have some tools to help those who become too engrossed find their way back to Real Reality.

    Without a doubt, there are those who take matters too far, and understanding what leads them to become over-dependent on virtual worlds and dealing with that is far more important, to my mind, than attacking those virtual worlds themselves.

  72. Gereiam/Dadda G/B16 ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    To all the previous commentors, I am so much more glad you’ve all decided to take on a religious topic with some sense of respect and dignity to the topic. My thanks to the regulators as well. As for discussion on the issue itself, does it not interest you that such a topic has risen. Instead of simply calling it entertainment, shouldn’t we ask ourselves, What is virtual reality? what does it entail? why does one indulge in it? etc….

  73. Anonymous says:

    There are times when I accidently kill someone playing GTA.  The moment is sometimes followed by an apology to the screen.  Yes, I run over people and then say "Oops!  Sorry!"

    All kidding aside, while it is sad to see some people misuse thier time here on earth, there are organizations created by gamers to help their fellow man.  Some of them are even listed down below in Gamers Doing Good.

  74. Oz says:

    Ah yes, because we are supposed to skip over stuff like Numbers 31. We are not really meant to read those pages express killing all adult males in a city is not enough, you have also kill innocent little boys and mothers and if you want, you are encouraged to keep the little girls as sex slaves ‘you may keep them for yourselves’

    Thats right, doing it right is ignoring those parts and pretend they dont exist.

    I call bullshit.

    That verse GLORIFIES ethnic clensing and mass child rape. And why apparently was it justified? Because they wern’t racist and were entering mixed race relationships. So within a few verses we have glorified:

    * Ethnic clensing

    * Racism

    * Child rape

    * Segragation

    All out of the alleged "good book". Theres alot more than just Numbers 31 as well.

    Epic Fail!

  75. Kajex says:

    "Angry against religion much? Exactly what did your little rant have to do with the article at all, or what was said in it?"

    My point is that people have turned to religion instead of developing their own sense of morals, and used their own personal interpretations to justify ridiculous things. Turning to religion over something like this is nigh on unnecessary.

    By the way, real mature to come to a "angry at religion much" "counter-argument" as your first response. This has nothing to do with anger. This is like taking morphine for a skinned knee.

  76. Xlorep DarkHelm says:

    Angry against religion much? Exactly what did your little rant have to do with the article at all, or what was said in it? The point is that killing people in video games isn’t a sin. The point is that it is the individual’s own personal responsibility, not to blame it on video games. Is that *not* exactly what people on this site have wanted to see a church organization say?

    "I’m not responcabel fer my comuter’s spleling errnors." — Xlorep DarkHelm

  77. Kajex says:

    I’m sorry, but the same book that attempts to make this point is also the same book that has several instances of genocide in its pages. You don’t really need a book as a moral compass- more often than not, it’s no more or less valid than a person’s individual opinion. The only difference is that if you think of an opinion, you’re thinking for yourself.

    And yes. Bowser isn’t going to destroy himself. He’s gonn’ nail that Princess if you don’t smoke his ass with barrage of fireballs.

  78. Xlorep DarkHelm says:

    What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? The WELS is not the bloody Roman Catholic church.

    "I’m not responcabel fer my comuter’s spleling errnors." — Xlorep DarkHelm

  79. Xlorep DarkHelm says:

    Not at all, that is not what he is saying. If you are expressing hatred or callous disregard for human life in how you are playing it personally, that makes it a sin in God’s eyes. The games themselves are not the problem, the responsibility is placed on the individual playing the game.

    "I’m not responcabel fer my comuter’s spleling errnors." — Xlorep DarkHelm

  80. DoggySpew says:

     "If, however, what is done in the video game is an expression of hatred or callous disregard for human life, then the heart and motives are wrong, and then it is sin in God’s eyes…"

    So, cowboys and indians is a sinfull game, cops and robbers also. Many childhood games without using videogames are sinfull.

    Unless it is God himself that orders you to kill.

     

     

     

  81. Xlorep DarkHelm says:

    Yep, that’s the summation of the 10 commandments.

    "I’m not responcabel fer my comuter’s spleling errnors." — Xlorep DarkHelm

  82. Xlorep DarkHelm says:

    Unnecessarily insulting. If, let’s say, I had a wife and kids, and spent 100% of my time I’m not at work, paying a MMO, and neglecting/ignoring my family, am I doing what is right? Isn’t that a bit excessive and more than a little obsessive? Am I doing a service, or disservice to my family? That’s the kind of thing that is being pointed out — obsessing about something, anything — beit video games, movies, sports, whatever, is not a healthy situation. It isn’t saying that everyone obsesses, or even implying that. It merely is pointing out that the obsession isn’t a good thing.

    On the other point, it is saying that killing people in video games isn’t a sin, unless in your heart you are sinning, but that is something between you and God to know, not something the Church is in an authority to decide.

    "I’m not responcabel fer my comuter’s spleling errnors." — Xlorep DarkHelm

  83. Korax ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    That’s exactly what I always say. And to add, how can they pretend to know god’s will? Give me a break.

  84. Haggard says:

    Technically playing an MMO is a self-regarding action because you’re concerned with improving your character, building up a bigger reputation etc.

    I disagree on your other point too – games are fun but in moderation. If it’s all you do you are sort of wasting your life.

  85. Anonymous says:

    hmm, that bit at the end about how video games "end up diverting time and attention from more useful and valuable pursuits that better glorify God and serve our neighbor" is a bit off the mark. IMO any time you spend having fun is time well spent. plus, wouldn’t inviting a couple friends over for a video game marathon or even just playing an mmo "serving your neighbor" in a sense?

  86. Vake ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    Good point. The Bible’s pretty clear that it’s not just what you do, but why you do it.
    I’m pretty sure God doesn’t look down on taking the BFG to a Hellknight. But what about GTA rampages?
    Sorry to bring that up, but you get my point. The definition of sin is “a conscious disobedience of God’s Will.” If you know God wants you to do one thing, and you do another. But that also goes to watching the wrong movies and TV, not just video games.

    With all the morons out there attacking the violence in games, I think we may be blinded to the real issue. Video games are awesome, and the right ones can be quite healthy. But what about the wrong ones?

    And these guys right here put the importance of “Glorfying God” before “serving our neighbor.” That shows you they have their hearts in the right place, not just blatent, political self-righteousness.

    Now, this may sound like sympathy for the devil, but I believe in “garbage in, garbage out” for every walk of life. And you know I’m always on the gamer’s side when it comes to these issues. We just have to make sure we don’t completely ignore what little problems there are, just because some dum-dum says they’re evil. Games aren’t perfect. Neither am I.

  87. Shadow Darkman Anti-Thesis of Jack Thompson says:

    Taking bets on how long until Jack is on here ranting again.

    ——————————————————————————————————–

    I AM DOOMED TO HAUNT JACK THOMPSON’S DREAMS UNTIL HIS CRUSADE AGAINST VIDEO GAMES ENDS.

  88. Digipen89 ( User Karma: 0 ) says:

    @Anonymous

    I think what was meant by that was not locking yourself in a room playing 10 hours a day by yourself.

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