ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

October 1, 2008 -

ELSPA, which represents U.K. game publishers, has vowed to fight on in its bid to have content rating chores assigned to PEGI rather than the British Board of Film Classification, gamesindustry.biz reports.

The PEGI-BBFC debate has become rather a long-running sideshow in the U.K., where government officials seem to prefer the BBFC, the industry wants PEGI and no one seems in the mood to compromise. ELSPA boss Paul Jackson spoke to gi.biz of his organization's determination:

Nobody is saying for a second that if government brings in a regulation for a videogames act of parliament that our members won't fight it. Of course they will. At the end of the day we're a very law-abiding industry and we'll fight our corner right the way through. If there's a legislative process we'll fight that as well.

 

I think [government officials are] listening now. I have a real sense that the arguments we're making are so well-founded in fact that they're impossible to not listen to...

 

Fifteen years ago when we set up our own age ratings without anybody asking us to, we did it entirely off our own backs to make sure there was child protection. I don't think there is the slightest doubt that this industry isn't serious, coherent and of one mind of where we're going.

 


Comments

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

I vote PEGI, because it's what the industry wants.

--- Official Protector of Videoland!

--- Official Protector of Videoland!

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

The Banking industry was super keen on self regulation. Worked really well for them too.


Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Oh please. Fannie and Freddie, easily the largest part of the problem, are government run companies. The Community Reinvestment Act of 1977, while noble at heart, was hijacked by leftists and big government types to force banks to make loans to low income and minority communities, neither of which are known for being able to pay off their debts. The "affordable housing" push by Bush, Clinton, and the Democrats is what led to this.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Your grasp of economics is as sound as your grasp of the BBFC.

Here's a little story all about how Banks decided that as the house prices were rising at a huge unsustainable rate they would give mortgages to everyone under the sun, even offering 110% mortgages at low interest rates because they knew that the house value was constantly rising.  If people couldn't afford to keep up the interest rates, then they could repossess the houses and sell them on at a profit.  They also allowed people to fill out "self assessment" mortgages where they proved their employment themselves, not by doing background checks etc so that people could lie about their employment status.

These mortgages were then sold on as investment opportunities to other banks and institutions by rating them good to bad and getting the FSA to rating them AAA products fo the best and BBB for the second best and the really bad mortgage investments were taken off the balance sheets and put in offshore companies, something that meant the transparancy of the bad debts was kept away from prying eyes.

Ultimately as mortgage rates started to rise, more and more people failed to keep up their repayments and these investments were not yielding any returns.  This has led to banks having no liquid assets, not trusting one another with loans, and with the house market collasping, they have houses as assets not worth what they originally lent and an inability to sell them on to regain the cash.

When a bank starts to run out of liquid assets, even if it has an abundance of money tied up in other things, it has to ask for help, which gets reported by the media, which causes a 'run' on the bank.  This means eveyone pulls their money out of the bank and the situation for it esculates.  Ultimately it then has to announce insolvancy and those banks who are more healthy pick up a sizable asset for a steal and noone in government or the FSA opposes the creation of a monopoly because they care more about the public who have invested within the bank.

The provisions to shore up the banks that will probably get passed early friday will need to be done, not just to protect joe public who has savings in the bank, but also for the pensions.  Because everyone in the US hates the socialism ideals we have in the UK, failure to assist the banks means the stock market collasps and noone gets to retire and that ladies and gents is a banking and ideology problem, not a partisan issue.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

That's cool, go through your entire life being told what to think.

Baaaaaa. ;)


BBFC ftw, PEGI are conducting the worst kind of smear campaign full of lies and dirty tactics. Ironically, it's exactly that fact which has shown is they don't deserve the responsibility.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

"That's cool, go through your entire life being told what to think."

 

Wait, that's my line.  Why don't you think for yourself, IE decide what media is appropriate for you, and say fuck PEGI and the BBFC.  What purpose do these organizations serve other than to take these decisions off yourself.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Wait, that's my line.  Why don't you think for yourself, IE decide what media is appropriate for you, and say fuck PEGI and the BBFC.  What purpose do these organizations serve other than to take these decisions off yourself.

So you're saying that you should experience the content so that you can decide whether or not the content is suitable for you to experience?

All of these organisations are there to give guidance over content. Whilst their primary reason is to state what is and isn't suitable for children of certain ages, the certificates are also used for adults to gauge the explicitness of the content contained, but the BBFC and PEGI can also decide on whether some content is suitable at all for anyone to view.

Which box would you tick if you wanted to play an untouched version of Madworld

What has Madworld got to do with the BBFC? They have not made any decision over the content. Also I highly doubt that they would want to game cut as they have been quite outspoken on comical looking content (such as Killer 7 and Dead Rising) and their decisions to rate them uncut. Statements have only come from Sega and look to be PR to make the game sound like the most violent ever in a hope of generating better sales and to generate interest.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

""So you're saying that you should experience the content so that you can decide whether or not the content is suitable for you to experience?"

 

DING! DING! DING! DING! We have a winnah!  Tell him what he's won Johnny! 

A lifetime's supply of common sense!

 

"All of these organisations are there to give guidance over content."

That is all well and good, but when they step over the line of guidance into either saying what people can and can't buy, or dictating to the designers what should or shouldn't be in the game then that goes FAR beyond guidance.

"What has Madworld got to do with the BBFC?"

Sega has stated that they are working with the BBFC to keep the game within whatever rigid pansy structure that the BBFC will dictate to them.  To put it in perspective it is like Galileo working with the Catholic Church to come to a "compromise".  That compromise being a geocentric universe.

 

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Still banging the same drum even after people have proven it doesn't have a skin.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

The "think for yourself drum"?  I'll never stop.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Given the level of some of your thoughts, it might be time to let someone else think for you.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Well I'll tell you what.  If I ever want pointers in being told how to defer my thinking to another person YOU will the first person I'll come to for advice.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Of course by coming to me for advice you would have already defered your thinking.

Sorry to break it to you but in EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of your life, someone else knows better than you.  If you shut up long enough to accept this fact you might realise that listening to others HELPS improve your own thoughts.  It is by listening to other peoples opinions and justifications that we obtain new directions of thought and ideas and help to have a more rounded knowledge of a subject.

If all you are ever going to do is listen to yourself then you have nothing but a fool for a teacher and a student.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

And this is how you justify censorship?

 

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

"Why don't you think for yourself, IE decide what media is appropriate for you, and say fuck PEGI and the BBFC."

I do. I'm 20. I play what the hell I want. ;)

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

You mean after the bans are overturned right?

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Hey Erik, can you go out and buy porn in America at your age?  No?  Even though there is no proof whatsoever that it has negative effects even when Reagan funded a study on it specifically to find such a link?

What about saying 'Fuck' on TV after 9pm? No? Sexual content on TV?  That neither huh... I guess really this just shows that the 'moral standards' and the 'acceptance of governing laws' vary between our cultures yes?  Then again, it's not like you have a self appointed body decide that the 1st amendment doesn't apply to TV and Radio and then set itself as the body to oversee fines and content of these, even though it is clearly against the constitution...

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Also its not a self appointed body.  It is a, and I know you all have trouble grasping this, GOVERNMENTAL BODY.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

It is now, AFTER they made the report deciding that the 1st amendment didn't apply to TV and Radio.  Oh wait that sounds like an incidious way to make your own business doesn't it?  Why yes... yes it does.

As for the porn to games comparison, it was made purely to point out that something that causes no harm has had excessive sanctions placed upon it by the US as well.  Porn, like games, does no harm.  The only reason for sanctions is that there are moral standards that are adhered to.  Sorry you didn't get that.

And yes, me and the BBFC are having babies together.  When they grow up they will be Adult Only though so you won't get a look in.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Once again, since you fail to pay attention, FUCK THE FCC.  Just what makes you think I support them?

Furthermore the FCC has always been, you know, a governmental group.  Or did the Federal in F throw you off?

 

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

It is TRYING to point out that different cultures censor things in different ways, but ALL cultures censor people.  You clearly aren't mature enough to understand this and instead just want to bang on that "All censorship is bad and evil".  Well I have a suggestion - buy an island and move there or get into politics so that higher ranking politicians can rip you a new one instead.  Until the world ends and either of these two options happen, trolling on a forum whenever ratings boards are mentioned is neither productive nor helping your cause.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Fuck the US and UK culture.  Is that simple enough for you to understand or do I have to boil it down more?

 

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

"Fuck society" is just the calling card of an idiot or a criminal, not a rebel or right thinking person.  Anarchistic society doesn't work.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

This is growing tedious.  Fuck anarchy.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Can I buy porn?  Lets see, the age to buy porn is 18 and I believe 21 in some states.  As I am 28, yeah, I've been buying porn for over a decade.

But hey, drawing a parallel between porn and videogames is par for Thompson's course.  And I really don't see you or any other BBFC control fantatics as being all that far removed from Thompson.

And to your other points.  Fuck the FCC.  Can you bring yourself to say "fuck the BBFC?".  I'd imagine that saying so would be rather difficult while you are tounge kissing it eh?

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

You're 28?!?  Fuck me...

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Yes.  And apparetly I must have missed the memo when a person turns 18 that they have to become a book burner like yourself.  If you can find said memo for me I'll happily join you and Thompson in your freedom-icide witch hunt.  Until then, I think I'll think for myself thank you.

 

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

No apparently all your books would have blank covers and anyone who complained about not knowing the content would be villified as not thinking for themselves by reading through it all first and finding out if it was relevent to them.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Blank covers is a better proposition to never being able to see the cover because your Big Brother decided that you are not adult enough to see them.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Bored now.  It's no fun running circles round someone when they don't realise it.  This will be my last response to you.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

To have a last response you would have to have a first.  You have never responded to me, it has been thos who think for you all along.  You are an uninteresting middleman

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

I disagree. THe BBFC was a body created to deal with (that is to say, ban or certificate) the unregulated video nasties in the 80s. They are rooted in making judgement calls on what grown men and women can and can't handle in their entertainment of choice.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Laughably incorrect.  The BBFC has been going for nearly 100 years.  To suggest it was set up for the 80's only displays your ignorance on the subject.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Guess what, Nintendo used to make playing cards, Sony used to be in telecoms. There is no denying the origins and original intent of the BBFC but the organisation has modernised and liberalised.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Then kindly explain why the grand total of ZERO videogames are currently banned in the UK?

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Because they got taken to court over their last ban, lost and were forced to change the decision. It's certainly not because they haven't banned anything.

Need we get into the fact that game was intended for adults only, and they decided part of their job was to decide what adults can and can't handle, instead of just agreeing that it's for adults and rating it as such.

 

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

You are wrong. No party took the BBFC to court. The BBFC applied for a judicial review because they believed that the report produced by the VAC was not correct with regards to the Video Recordings Act. The judicial review found in favour of the BBFC and the VAC were required to resubmit. The subsequent resubmission was correct with regards to the Video Recordings Act and the BBFC, as a result, were required to assign the classification.

Take your misinformation somewhere else.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Take your pedantry over semantics somewhere else.


-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Its a little bit more important just 'semantics'. Dismiss that all you like but the major difference is that in your story the BBFC was forced to give it a rating whereas the reality is that no outside pressure, becides the appeal by Rockstar, was required for Manhunt 2 to get a rating. The system is working and adapting.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Lets put it in terms even you can't try and shout down shall we. Stop me if you get confused.

*The BBFC ban Manhunt 2.

*Rockstar edit Manhunt 2 and resubmit it.

*The BBFC ban that version too.

*The ban is appealed by Rockstar

*The ban is overturned.

*The BBFC appeal against the over-turning through a judge.

*The judge requests the appeal commtee look at it again.

*The appeal is turned down and Manhunt 2 is released.

At NO point did the BBFC willingly accept that it was a game for adults, and at no point did they think they were in the wrong. So my original statement is not wrong. The BBFC has no banned games not because they don't ban anything, but because they were eventually forced to rate and release the game.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

And if PEGI were in charge they would have to abide by the same code of conduct and laws that the BBFC are party to.  It is not the company rating the games you dislike, it is the laws imposed upon them by the Government.  If you don't like that, well you are free to change country or get into politics or appeal to your local MP or start a campaign etc etc.

Your misinformation on the subject perpetuates the myths that Americans on this site have about the BBFC.  I would have hoped someone who has lived here all their lives and is old enough to have witnessed games going from unrated to rated on the back of Mortal Kombat and other "controversial" games in the 90's would have a better understanding of the subject before commenting.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Beautifully put.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

That is why I like them. They believe adults can play games unlike teh BBFC which babies them.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

So if we were to disregard your misinterperatation of the BBFC and PEGI ideologies for a minute. Which of the two do you feel has a better approach to assigning ratings and I don't mean which has the prettier pictograms, I mean the actual methodology between rating games?


Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Well for a start BBFC frequently downgrades the age-rating on games. The amount of times I've smirked at a box that has a PEGI rating of 18+ and a BBFC rating of 15 is too many to count.


-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

How do you mean downgrade? Do you mean they alter the rating to be lower than PEGI or just that they have different ratings?

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

No, he just means the BBFC are more leniant and liberal. Mass Effect is a case in point, PEGI rated it as a 18, BBFC were happy to give it a 12. If you then compare the ME content to similar content in films, you'll see that the BBFC certificate is far more reflective. Unfortunately the Manhunt incident has led to massive amount of misinformation in the videogame community, many of whom are happy to believe the portrayal of BBFC as an evil, banhammer-happy organisation. Thankfully, this portrayal is wrong.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

THey aren't 'evil', they aren't 'ban happy' but they are out-dated. It's a yet another typically British hanging onto something for the sake of hanging onto it out of fear of change.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

Okay, TIME OUT, First off no matter what your opinion is throwing out flagrantly inflammatory comments about a nation is just plain offensive, I could respond by insulting america (assuming you are american) in turn for similar national problems without any thought for logic or fact but I won't, you know why? because its petty and has no place in a rational discussion.

So either you discuss the topic in a civil manner or troll elsewhere.

 

Re: ELSPA Not Giving Up the Fight over U.K. Game Ratings

I'm British brainiac. Lived here 24 years, since the day I was born. (Funnily enough, I had a feeling you'd try the nationality smokescreen, shame it's backfired.)

 

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
 
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