BREAKING: Missing Gamer Brandon Crisp Died from Fall

Brandon Crisp, the gamer whose disappearance touched so many in Canada and in the video game community, died of injuries consistent with a fall from a tree, according to a coroner’s report.

More details from Canada.com:

An autopsy performed Friday in Toronto confirmed that missing 15-year-old Brandon Crisp died from a fall from a tree. Coroner Dr. Dirk Huyer said Saturday that the autopsy confirmed the boy’s identity and cause of death, putting to end the faint hope the missing teen might still be alive.

Results from the autopsy indicated that Crisp died from chest wounds "consistent with a fall from a tree," a statement released by Barrie police said. Many media reports speculated that Crisp, whose body was found Wednesday near a popular hiking trail outside of the central Ontario city, had likely died from hypothermia.

Police said foul play isn’t suspected.

Police are still attempting to piece together the last moments of Brandon’s life. His funeral is planned for Friday, November 14th.

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434 comments

  1. Leet Gamer Jargon says:

    Seconded to the nth degree. You hit the nail right on the head.

    And until that fateful day, when gamers and movie goers, music enthusiasts, and all walks of life can join hands and prosper, I ask one simple thing of all who read my post:

    Game on, brothers and sisters.

  2. HungryHungryHomer says:

     

    Kidnapped by someone that had been watching his scores to get him to play in a high stake tournament,

     

    …Does this actually happen? It sounds like the premise to a terrible action movie starring Rutger Hauer.

  3. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    FAIL.

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  4. DeepThorn says:

    Good parents can moderate their kid’s gaming, and prevent addiction.  Before it can be the games fault, it has to be the parent’s fault.  There is no escaping that.  Either by letting them play that much in the first place, buying the game for them, or have requirements for before they are allowed to play.  Parenting is required to prevent many things.  You can even get this neat little v-chip thing in your TV and block channel 3 and 4 so the kid cant access the channel without your permission, and if you get a really good one, you can even set it to turn off after a certain amount of time.


    Nido Web Flash Tutorials AS2 and AS3 Tutorials for anyone interested.
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  5. jiminycricket says:

    `Here’s the link http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/9009303.html

    and here’s an excerpt:

     

    "Our thoughts and sympathies go out to the family, because this is one of the ultimate, devastating consequences of these kinds of addictions,” said Emily Noble, president of the Canadian Teachers’ Federation.

    The union will be lobbying politicians at all levels to fund more education about the safe use of technology, she said, which was already a priority but has taken on a new meaning following Brandon’s death.

    “This shines a light that these things are happening,” she said. “We as adults tended to dismiss it before.”

    Stephen Kline, a researcher with Simon Fraser University who has studied youth and compulsive gaming, said the sad ending to Brandon’s life will make it difficult for parents to act if they see their children growing increasingly preoccupied with gaming.

    “Coming out of this, I think a lot of parents will say, ‘Well, what can I do? I can’t take the game away. I think my kid will do a bump,’‘ he said. “There’s a deep lack of information about what to do.” 

     

    Sorry for the highlighting.  I did that to make a few points.  

    1) The union will be lobbying politicians to fund more education about the safe use of technology…

    Who is their target population?  Kids only, parents only or both?

    2) Only citing one reason, that parents will use Brandon’s death to discourage responsible parenting, is a cop out by this professor.  As an educator he has to consider all factors, including mental health issues, child abuse or other causes such as bullying at school and using the game as avoidance

    3) Another cop out by this professor.  Many media outlets have interviewed psychiatrists and they have said that ‘addiction’, if you want to use the intense semantics that the Crisp’s have used to define this word, is usually a result of some underlying mental health issue like depression or anxiety or others.  Those treating patients in the mental health field have to treat two separate problems when dealing with any type of addiction.  First, heal the addiction then determine the underlying causes of it and treat it.  

  6. Erik says:

    Or hopefully it will be a wakeup call to LAZY parents that just taking away the video games is not going to solve a damn thing.  If you just treat the symptoms, as obsessive gaming is, then the true issues will still be problematic.  The kid needed some psychiatric care.  But no, instead lets just beat on that scapegoat some more.  Why don’t we just blame games some more while some kid who needs serious mental health care is being harassed by bullies until he snaps and pulls another Columbine.  Surely there is no possible way he can learn violence while violence is being perpetrated from him as long as we keep that damn goat away from him right.

    Lazy Parents.

     

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  7. Kincyr says:

    as a mother myself, I would be going absolutely nuts if my child ran away and was missing.

    I can understand; while I myself am not a parent, I can’t imagine myself not going nuts if a family member, close friend, or even just someone I know went missing. Heck, that story you posted about your sister-in-law really got to me. Even now, just typing that last sentence brought me to tears.

    岩「…Where do masochists go when they die?」

  8. Harry Miste says:

    I don’t see him going

    *SPOILER*super saiyan*END SPOILER*

    though I’d imagine how easy his disbarrment would be appealed if he did.

    XBOX LIVE GamerTag: Harry Miste | Steam ID: Harry Miste | PSN ID: HMiste | EYE. HAVE. YOU.

  9. Zerodash says:

    The main reason Gamers (there are LOTS of us) get so defensive is because we are depicted in a negative light CONSTANTLY.  Politicians, religious folk, the press, and activists say that we are a bunch of addicted, socially inept losers who are just one bad day away from going on killing sprees.  Rushing to blame this death on games and gamers (due to the allegation that he met a player through XBL) created a media storm that touched on these negative stereotypes yet again.  

    While it isn’t even remotely near the level of emotion one would feel after losing a loved one, it bothers us to no end to have a tragedy turned into a convenient (sp?) way for certain people to push agendas.  We want to be accepted as normal, productive, and happy members of society.  So far, we are not respected by most of the older generation or their politicians.

    Statements like "even if you work and pay your bills if you play any video games you are still a child" do not help things at all.  It is very telling about the attitudes the person who said that has about gamers, and it is neither correct or fair…with all due respect.

    Another less-obvious reason for some of us to get defensive is the ramifications if one of these agendas actually gets through.  If all games are determined to be fundamentally addictive, and not only for certain people with addictive/obsessive personalities, then that will be the end of videogames forever.  Gambling, alcohol, and tobacco are regulated to the point where only 18 (or 21) year olds can consume them.  If that happens to videogames, then the entire medium will be all but destroyed.

  10. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    I know where it came from, but I don’t see the relevancy in it.

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  11. Amen4u says:

    Yes they were searching for clues that would lead them to some idea of where he might have disappeared to. They were not talking about his obbsession here, They had no clue where he was. He had not contacted any of his friends from home. There had been an earlier indication that he might have;

    Left or was lured by a clan member of his xbox group

    Was on his way to the states to some gaming convention

    Kidnapped by someone that had been watching his scores to get him to play in a high stake tournament,

    I know, I know I know, it was all speculation from tips the police were receiving from the 1,000 of callers.

    They were investigating any angle, and as a mother myself, I would be going absolutely nuts if my child ran away and was missing.

  12. Amen4u says:

    No there probably won’t be. But maybe his death will wake the nation up and make parents aware that their are potential dangers in obsessive gaming. PLEASE DON"T GET MAD! all I am saying is if they are having problems with excessive gaming take a step back and see if your child may have some other underlying problem, or if he has an addictive personality then resourse some help. If anything I wish that some of you would realize that not all of us are in here to point out that Gaming is bad, or everyone has a problem with it, or it is immature and grow up.

    My stance is. gaming could be dangerous or addicting to some. And those who are sooooooooo defensive about this issue I trully wonder about.

    I also have no respect for anyone that is cruel enough to say anything about a young 15 year old boy that was having trouble with his obbsesive behavior and is now dead.

     

  13. jiminycricket says:

     the ontario teachers union is preparing an action on the dangers of gaming…

    will it be mandatory for parents to attend or just kids?  Whose more responsible?  An adult or someone still underage?What about just enforcing the ratings?  that’s pretty simple

  14. Zerodash says:

    I doubt there will ever be any resolution to the debate Brandon Crisp’s death caused. 

    – The cause of death will always fit nicely into both sides scenarios.  To some, he climbed the tree to escape someone he knew from Xbox Live.  To others, he merely climbed the tree and fell. 

    – The parents and many others will continue to blame CoD4 and Microsoft for killing him.  They will likely sue.  Nothing you say will convince them otherwise.

    – The anti-games and anti-speech folk will rally around this incident.  I am certain JT has been very busy trying to get on TV to blame games.  The "addiction" crowd will use this incident to try and push their agendas around.  Calls for banning or regulating games will come.

    – Many old people will ALWAYS think that anyone who plays games is still a child.  I have accomplished more in my life than a lot of people, and yet there are still those who think I am immature OLNY because I play games.  There is no convincing them otherwise, even if their lives are in shambles and you are doing just fine.

    – Laws will be passed or attempted to be passed.  This one is a complete toss-up, but lets not forget the crap Dungeons and Dragons went through in the 1980’s.  The media frenzy over that one resulted in parents freaking out all over the country (my parents forbade D&D in their house only because of the news stories). There were no laws banning D&D, so that is a good sign for games.

  15. jiminycricket says:

     They didn’t throw him out of the house.  The father admitted, and feels bad for obviously, that he said if you want to leave "there’s the door" and it has come from family sources posted on the FB group that one of the parents said "don’t go getting yourself killed" and "bring a coat".  His ‘tough love’ was noted in media reports

  16. Shadow D. Darkman says:

     WTF?

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  17. Kincyr says:

    on the police site you yourself linked:

    "Investigators of OPP E-Crimes Unit are continuing to analyze Brandon CRISP’s XBOX console, but to date there has been no evidence obtained to support that the XBOX was involved in his disappearance."

    岩「…Where do masochists go when they die?」

  18. PHX Corp says:

    because of what happened in the previous Brandon crisp article.  2 major Flame wars both of which got out of control

    If you don’t know What a flame war is here it is, I do keep a copy to use for myself ( I usually know more about the internet, But I have a life outside of the computer and video games) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaming_(Internet)

  19. Amen4u says:

    FYI< this area has plenty of black bears, coyoty, wolves, deer, moose. The police were also back on the scene today. They have re-opened their investigation, and the media is still claiming his addiction to gaming was the cause of his running away.

  20. TBoneTony says:

    At least the mainstreem media will hopefully stop trying to blame Videogames for this, even if his parents still try to blame his XBox360.

    Either way, it is a very sad and tradgic end or Game Over as we might say….

    Rest in peace fellow gamer, the world is yet to fully understand gamers like us on this site but one day hopefully it will come and people will hopefully understand that it is not the games fault.

    Hope we can all understand that videogames are apart of our lives just as movies, music and even comics are part of any individuals lives.

    TBoneTony

  21. MartyB says:

     This is sad, and personly unless the investigation shows something else, its no one’s fault.

    It’s hard when there’s a victim of circumstances, because its really hard for loved ones to have closure.

    If someone was responsible, that person is usually caught, and displined.  then family and friends get’s closure with that.   But when its just little things that ammount to a tragedy, you can’t put the blame one and get the closure we sometime need.

    There’s plenty or small things that could of been different, that would of had an impact the events, but no one is really  responsible for something like this.

     

    This reminds of a CSI episode where a college girl was moving, while taking her garbage out she droped the can in the garbage shoot, went in the alley and while trying to reach the can in the dumpster, the dumpster rolled a bit just in time to hit an incoming car that was taking a shortcut in the alley and she got stuck between the wall and the dumpster, then falling in it, her body was found at the dump field.

    Just a few small circumstances, and ends up with a tragedy.  In the end the girl’s parent’s hired a PI to investigate seperatly because they’re weren’t happy with the truth, and needed someone to be responsible for such a tragedy.

    My sympathies to the family and friends, and hope they can find the closure they’re looking for without blindly pointing fingers.

  22. DarthCadeous501 says:

    *sigh*

     

     

    DarthCadeous501- Pink Halo 3 Ninja, Mongoose Suicidee, and Current Iron Man Hater

  23. Jabrwock says:

    My guesses are:

    a) he went up the tree to get his bearings, probably trying to spot some shelter or the highway he was vaguely heading towards; and

    b) he went up the tree to escape a bear (Ontario does have some smaller bears, although they are VERY uncommon in that area), investigation of the area they found his body will determine if a bear was active in the area.

    Had he not fallen, he may very well have either returned home or been found by a motorist.

    — If your wiimote goes snicker-snack, check your wrist-strap…

  24. Adamas Draconis says:

    Considering it’s been there for quite some time. I’m assuming its a a sig.

     

    Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

  25. Bennett Beeny says:

    Maybe the X-box mafia chased him up that tree, then threw CoD4 DVDs at him until he fell.  Or maybe an X-box stalker dressed himself as a cougar, chased him up the tree, then climbed the tree, forcing Brandon to fall out.  Heck, the X-Box must somehow be to blame for this tragedy.  Is there a tree-climbing game for the X-Box?  I mean it can’t just be that this kid was the victim of bad luck.

  26. Vortex says:

    I’m expecting Liz to troll here again more so than the actual He Who Must Not Be Named, which surprises me O_O

  27. Bennett Beeny says:

    Maybe he fell from a very high tree and got impaled on the spire of a church, then Steagle Colbeagle the bald eagle carried him to where he was found.

  28. Father Time says:

    Ok who had fall from tree, or just fall in general. Anyone, anyone at all?

    I find it slightly amusing that we made a huge deal of the possibilities and look he just fell from a tree.

    Such a shame though, I wonder what he was doing there, oh well.

    —————————————————-

    "What for you bury me in the cold cold ground?" – Tasmanian devil

  29. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    Seconded, Dave.

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  30. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    Just "Shadow" will do, and I would like my prize to be an early copy of Chrono Trigger DS.

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  31. GRIZZAM PRIME says:

    I remember this awesome flame war betweeen "TheStripe" and some troll who called himself "kill you" on a story that turned into a gun control debate / flame war. It actually degraded in to death threats if I recall correctly.

     

    -Remember kids, personal responsibility is for losers! -The Buck Stops Here. -Thou Shall Not Teamkill, Asshole.

  32. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    I have to admit, if you think someone like Miami Jack is a decent person, then you are more fucked up in the head than Kristoph Gavin times over nine thousand.

    Equation: I = K * y

    I = your insanity level; K = Kristoph Gavin’s insanity level; y > 9000

    See what I did there?

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  33. Krono says:

    <i>or at worst letting the kid "run away" for a few hours, until dinner time when the kid would get hungry and return, humbled.</i>

    At dinner time, or to a friend’s house for the night. Regardless I’d say the parents fully expected him to return after cooling off, and he likely would have had he not met with injury.

    -Gray17

  34. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    You mean when not even Dennis himself couldn’t stop Jack from coming back because of those damn proxies [Jack] kept using to get on there?

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  35. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    I’m guessing that link is his sig, in which case I say "STFU, Hank."

    EDIT: If it isn’t his sig, then I withdraw the contents of this post.

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  36. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    You talk like he’s a Candle Jack Impersonator.

    Oh, wait.

    Either way, shaddup with the "don’t summon him" bullshit.

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  37. PHX Corp says:

    no problem, I’m not offended at any statement just trying to not have an incident like in the last brandon crisp article

  38. HilaryDuffGta says:

    http://www.myspace.com/hermoinefan_420 (and boom goes the dynamite)

     

     

    i’m sorry i’m not trying to start any flame wars here or nothing..(not sure if that was directed at me)…Lol Damn dennis i think i’m cursed…i always end up offending someone on here…HEy man it is the gp days of old..

  39. PHX Corp says:

    Heres what i have to say about liz Wooley saying that Video games are for children statement

    unless you have a mature comment to say, dont say anything at all

  40. HilaryDuffGta says:

    http://www.myspace.com/hermoinefan_420 (and boom goes the dynamite)

     

    ok that was a little bit too wrong right there…i’m sorry for my comment but i’m going to surf around for a while and i’ll respond to another post or something..i dont want a ban…but seriously dude come on man

  41. Rodrigo Ybáñez García says:

    i personally will not speak to her or resond to any post done from her for the simple fact when i did attempt to have a mature conversation with her via email she pretty much told me that "even if you work and pay your bills if you play any video games you are still a child" and to me that is just beyond immature and pathetic in my book.

    I´m agree with you. She is wrong trying to blame everyone on her son´s death. And trying to ventilate her rage against people in this forum is not helping to anybody.

    She even called Jack Thompson is "a decent man". Looks that the delusional person is she.

     

    The cynical side of videogames (spanish only): http://thelostlevel.blogspot.com/ My DeviantArt Page (aka DeviantCensorship): http://www.darkknightstrikes.deviantart.com/

  42. PHX Corp says:

    She’s just like JT in any way. that shows you obsene ignorance and immature

     

    Anyone who dosen’t respect the dead should be punished by the law

  43. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    What’s the betting that Jack’s gonna be on here blaming video games for driving him up the tree in the first place?

    *facepalms at the idea*

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  44. Andrew Eisen says:

    "even if you work and pay your bills if you play any video games you are still a child"

    Wow.  I wonder if I caught her on a good day or you caught her on a bad one.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  45. JC says:

    I’m pretty surprised to hear this as the result of his death. It was either a very high tree, or he landed at a certain angle on a jagged area/ground. I can’t wrap my mind around how he suffered from chest injuries unless he hit several branches on the way down before landing. When I fell from a tree, I landed face first into the trunk…

    I feel bad for his parents though, regret is still a very likely feeling they have; I hope they can move on soon.

  46. HilaryDuffGta says:

    http://www.myspace.com/hermoinefan_420 (and boom goes the dynamite)

     

     

    well good for you then i personally will not speak to her or resond to any post done from her for the simple fact when i did attempt to have a mature conversation with her via email she pretty much told me that "even if you work and pay your bills if you play any video games you are still a child" and to me that is just beyond immature and pathetic in my book..thompson is a nutcase but hell we all knew that since the old days of gp so what else is new there…

     

    This is a really sad situation and i can honestly see more bs and drama coming from this out of well u know moron boy and all soccer moms in general….

  47. Andrew Eisen says:

    Thompson’s the same as he ever was.  Woolley posted a comment in an earlier Brandon article before we knew Brandon was dead, let alone how he died.  She overreacted and generalized gamers in a demeaning way but several posters were being insensitive and this probably hits very close to home for her so I didn’t see it as a big deal.  I’ve talked to Liz a couple times.  I don’t agree with her but she’s been very level-headed and fair.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  48. kielejocain says:

    My guess is an attempt at some reverse psychology.  The kid probably felt that by threatening to run away he was gaining leverage in the fight for his XBox; by helping him ‘leave’, the father probably thought he was at best taking that leverage away, or at worst letting the kid "run away" for a few hours, until dinner time when the kid would get hungry and return, humbled.

    Of course all of this is speculation, as I don’t know anyone involved.  But letting kids make mistakes is definitely one way to teach.  I’m sure he didn’t expect the kid to fall out of a tree and die if he did in fact attempt to run away.

  49. Andrew Eisen says:

    Don’t know what really happened.  I’ve seen info ranging from "Dad helped him pack" to "Dad looked in his pack to see what he was taking."  Could have been something along the lines of "Okay, if you’re going to blow off some steam somewhere, I want to make sure you’re taking the right stuff."

    I haven’t seen anything so far to suggest that Brandon’s parents threw him out.  Just that they were aware he was leaving.  There’s no way they could have anticipated him falling out of a tree.  Brandon could have just as easily been going outside to play.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  50. HilaryDuffGta says:

    http://www.myspace.com/hermoinefan_420 (and boom goes the dynamite)

     

     

    ok this might be a bit off topic but i havent been on for a while so what are we being called now by liz wooely and he who will not be named?? is it at least gotten to a mature conversation or is there no chance of that happening at all??

  51. HilaryDuffGta says:

    http://www.myspace.com/hermoinefan_420 (and boom goes the dynamite)

     

    No i’m not saying that or nothing..i understand it was a accident and it really is a shame but i honestly dont understand how a parent just tells their child to leave or to help them pack…i think thats how this all could of been avoided…i can understand getting in fights with ur parents or sibilings..(i’m 28 my brother is 19 and there are times when i want to leave too cause he annoys me)..Just to me i dont understand how a parent just helps them pack and acts like its not a big thing…thats all

  52. Andrew Eisen says:

    Todd, he fell out of a tree.  It was an accident.  His parents aren’t responsible for that.  Your opinion is of course your own but the reason he walked out the front door that afternoon can not be blamed for a completely unrelated incident.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  53. HilaryDuffGta says:

    http://www.myspace.com/hermoinefan_420 (and boom goes the dynamite)

     

     

    Yea this is a really sad thing that happened and it all could of been avoided if maybe his dad hadnt helped pack his things and acted like a parent and kept his son home…im not causing trouble or starting something i’m simply stating my opinion that is all…

  54. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    Whoa. I missed a lot.

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  55. Chuma says:

    You could say that, but it would also be true to say that you can replace video gaming with a variety or other activities.  The fact that he chose gaming to become obcessive about is not indicative of gaming in and of itself otherwise the problem with be pandemic.  These stories of gaming addicition are rare and given the wide variety of things you can get addicted to which have no direct addictive qualities such as heroin etc, I would suggest this is a problem with the person not with the activity.

    Infact, basic searches on addictive behaviour uncover far more information than you are ever likely to learn on these forums, other than none of us have had it adversely affect our lives.  The only time I have had something affect me was during my time at University where frankly I just didn’t want to be there.  Since then, I have held down jobs in IT for over 10 years.  If there was truely an addicting factor rather than an underlying cause, I wouldn’t have been able to do so.

  56. nightwng2000 says:

    Actually, with an underlying reason, you are prone to become addicted to ANYTHING that comforts you away from the underlying reason.  Pointing the finger solely at gaming.  He could just have easily been spending 8-12 hours a day in church, reading the bible non-stop, calling his family obscene and sinful, and avoiding everyone else because he believed they were immoral.  But how many would call that a problem of the religion were "acceptable" in society’s eyes?  The fact is, everyone has something they dislike and something they like.  And if you try to paint their likes as "bad", they will become "defensive".  But the "bad" isn’t always the product in general.  It could easily be the use of the product and the lack of control in using the product.  You’ve already pointed that out in the use of alcohol, drugs, and gambling.  Hence, it is true in gaming as well. 

    Nightwng2000

    NW2K Software

    Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

  57. Andrew Eisen says:

    I’d say it depends on the problem and the person.

    Whatever would drive one person to compromise their health and social life in order to play a video game could have a completely different effect on someone else.

    To answer your question more directly: no.  We’re not all prone to become addicted to gaming.

    And with that, I’m off to rehearsal.  Have a good evening and I’ll check back in later tonight.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  58. Amen4u says:

    So one person or another has an underlying reason of some sort.

    Saying that then, since everyone has some sort of underlying problem of some sort, we are all prone to become addicted to gaming

  59. Andrew Eisen says:

    School work and chores?  Absolutely.

    Eating with family?  If the family really sucks, sure but that would be an underlying problem: an unsatisfying family life.

    Sleeping?  Staying up past bedtime to play?  Normal.  Not sleeping period.  Indicative of a problem, likely some type of sleep disorder, insomnia (something I suffer from) or chronic nightmares (itself indicative of an underlying problem).

     

    Andrew Eisen

  60. Amen4u says:

    Well I have never been in there myself, but what some say, that games can be so exciting that iti snot hard tot try and replace it with real life… and for a fifteen year child don’t you think that they would have no trouble with wanting to replace hone work, chores, eating with family, and sleeping with an exciting games with no real start or end.

  61. Andrew Eisen says:

    Exactly.  If you find CoD4 more exciting than real life to the point that you’re forgoing your social life, education, health, and other responsibilities then that’s indicative of an underlying problem.

    Yes, pleasurable activities will release dopamine but not enough to cause a problem unless you have a chemical imbalance or your hypothalamus is out of whack.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  62. Amen4u says:

     I really don’t understand, why you would say there HAS to be an underlying reason. Games can be addicting in the sense of being dranw into a fanasty life much more exciting than real life. It also releases hormones and chemicals in the brain that are highly addicting.

  63. Andrew Eisen says:

    I’d say that’s an opinion shared by a great number of those who post here.  It’s certainly my view.

    Being addicted to a video game "just because" simply doesn’t make sense to me.  There has to be some underlying reason.  With chemicals it could be as simple as a physical dependency.  Games don’t offer that so it has to be something else.

    I think what most take issue with is the implication of fault that "addiction" carries with it.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  64. Amen4u says:

    What I gather from most members here is that they say that there is no way that gaming can be addictive unto itself. That a there has to be an underlying reason for that person to be addicited to anything.

  65. Chuma says:

    Comparisons are not insults when backed up with reasoning.  I happen to agree that aspects of Amen4U’s sweeping generalisations of gamers and refusal to listen to opposing views very much coincides with JT’s rhetoric.  I don’t think you have anything to apologise for Alevan; you aren’t the one calling people stupid or screaming go away.

  66. nightwng2000 says:

    P.S.  I think I’ve proven my point.  You claim kettle/pot, yet it is YOU who suddlenly becomes defensive when assumptions are made/speculated/threatened regarding something YOU like or are associated with.  Why become so defensive/protective of religion if you aren’t directly involved with the "harmful effects" of religion that I’ve noted?  If it doesn’t apply to you, even if I claim it’s caused by ALL religions and ALL religions should be labeled harmful, why would YOU become defensive/protective? 

    Kettle… pot… yadda yadda.

    Nightwng2000

    NW2K Software

    Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

  67. nightwng2000 says:

    I don’t do "simple" answers for truly complex issues.  Actually sitting down and thinking about the issues and the complexity of the issues and individuals is a long, brain wrecking process.

    Again, as with sound bites, if you want "simple" answers, talk to politicians and agendists.

    Nightwng2000

    NW2K Software

    Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

  68. Alevan says:

    Yeah, I did compare her to JT. Um… Sorry? I didn’t know I made someone upset with "name calling" or something. Ah well. I just dropped it afterwards. Sorry if it caused anything bad!

    Amy Levandoski

  69. Michael Chandra says:

    Pssst, Andrew, look for the post containing "haven’t you ever thought that what your doing is cruel too?"

  70. Andrew Eisen says:

    I understand your frustration but Amy is just Amy. She’s not every commenter in this thread. She did not say you were a troll or as bad as JT and the only name she called you was "hypocrite." If you disagree with her label, you’re more than welcome to counter it.

    EDIT: Okay, as noted by Michael below, the JT comparison was from an earlier post.  I missed that.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  71. Amen4u says:

    Not when she is calling me names and acussing me as bad as trolls, and JT and so on. I don’t need it Andrew.

  72. Amen4u says:

    Go away

     

    AE: Chill.  Just like you, Amy may reply to any comment she wishes as long she keeps it civil and on topic. 

  73. Amen4u says:

    The question- why control your time on gaming

    Answer…………because like everything else, it can become addicting. KISS

     

  74. Alevan says:

    See? This is where you, well… In internet terms, you fail.

    You are a hypocrite. You take the criticism you only want to hear. You are very close minded, you don’t want to look at other possibilities and you complain others attack you and yet… why’re you here? What’re you trying to prove? There isn’t anything you can do, at this point. You won’t be moved from your stand point, and neither will the others.

    You believe you are correct, and everyone else is wrong. You can’t begin to realize that maybe, just maybe… you could be wrong.

    And if you can’t admit your mistakes, or even admit that you are wrong? Well… then you have no reason to debate this and should, seriously, find something else to do.

    Amy Levandoski

  75. LujanD says:




    Take it easy. You’re on a public forum and so really, I have every right to praise or condemn whatever I wish so long as I remain civil. 

    Anyway, if it’s so full of flaws then it should be quite easy to counter, no? So far, besides admitting yourself that it is an answer (no matter the form) you haven’t really proven him wrong on any points — you’ve really just tried to brush it aside through some self-made requirements you whipped out of thin air.

  76. Amen4u says:

    Go away Amy, I do not want or need your attacks, so please I would appreciate you minding your own business. I have had enough bullshit from other members and I do not need another. Go pick on someone else ok.

  77. Amen4u says:

    And there you go again, the pot calling the kettle black. Can’t answer in simple terms. You are more Bias than I will ever be. And more judmental as well. You know nothing about my usernames and Why I have choosen them, you just go assumming again.

  78. Amen4u says:

    well the person asking the question is the one to decide if the answer was welll done!!!!!!!. And it wasn’t in my eyes. I asked a simple question for a simple answer. TOO much verbage, and more a defense anwer than anything.

  79. metroidprimegmr says:

    YOUR SARCASM DETECTORS.

    THEY ARE ALL BROKEN.

     ___________________________________________

     Jack Thompson: future Good Burger employee of the month

  80. metroidprimegmr says:

    YOUR SARCASM DETECTORS.

    THEY ARE ALL BROKEN.

     ___________________________________________

     Jack Thompson: future Good Burger employee of the month

  81. Alevan says:

    Well, that is understandable. It is okay to defend but haven’t you ever thought that what your doing is cruel too? Some of the things you have said were uncalled for, and why it led me to believe such a thing. I can see what your coming at but I don’t see what was so cruel.

    As for game addiction, I know full well about it. It’s why I broke up with my boyfriend months ago. he got too addicted to video games. Being a gamer myself, I understand the full knowledge of keeping the gaming to a limit. My mother always put that in me. So while I played my SNES a lot… the choice to play Bloody Mary with the kids in the neighborhood or to play 7 hours of Chrono Trigger — I chose to go play outside!

    If your trying to prove something, all your proving is that your as horrible as Jack Thompson. If you -really- want to make a difference, I’d recommend joining a group and work to educate parents about it. Trust me, ranting here is -not- going to help kids that -need- to be educated the difference between reality and fantasy.

    Amy Levandoski

  82. nightwng2000 says:

    I’d wager if moderation were encouraged and followed through with all the time, the bud wouldn’t grow too large to get nipped and the nipping wouldn’t be quite as painful.  Would probably sting a lot, maybe even encourage a temper tantrum, but only the child with far more reaching problems than having their buds nipped are going to have a serious reaction.

    Kids have run away for a long time.  While the reasons vary greatly, many times moderation of SOMETHING (even a relationship) can be found somewhere back down the path.  Abuse is one of those things that moderation doesn’t apply, at least not in regards to the child needing to moderate something. 

    But, yeah, if you’ve taken a nice, casual, but steady moderation of something and you follow through (and follow through is something that a LOT of "experts" agree on), if the child still goes overboard, there’s something more at the core than just a product like a game or a book or music.

    We also have to be aware that what we preceive as rational may not be what a child preceives as rational and vice versa.  And yet still, we have to be watchful of even the most irrational behavior.

    Damn, we’re one complex species, aren’t we?

    Nightwng2000

    NW2K Software

    Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

  83. Amen4u says:

     don’t which is more sad — the fact that a boy died in a most unfortunate way or that there are people, like Amen4u, are using it as a means to promote their political agenda.

    You have no idea what you are talking about.  I was Defending the cruel Statements that many of the posters here were saying about it being Brandon’s parents fault that he is dead.

     But seriously considering starting a gaming addiction resource center here. ahhhhhhhhhhh. can’t wait for the attacks on this one.

     

  84. Alevan says:

    Well. To me, it did feel like it. To say "Video games ruined this boy’s life! The parents feel this, yada yada yada…" It feels like using a boy’s death to try to promote a debate that all of us already know about. To me, I felt like she was exploting it. Just how I feel, I suppose.

    Everybody’s different — but I tried to word just a bit differently, so this doesn’t turn angry or hateful. I actually like you guys and don’t want to start some useless flame war 🙁

    Amy Levandoski

  85. Andrew Eisen says:

    "…there are people, like Amen4u, are using it as a means to promote their political agenda."

    I’ve not seen her exploit the boy’s death as a means to push a political agenda.  Have you?

     

    Andrew Eisen

  86. Alevan says:

    I don’t which is more sad — the fact that a boy died in a most unfortunate way or that there are people, like Amen4u, are using it as a means to promote their political agenda. I find the later quite pathetic and disgusting, being a single parent to my little nephew and with a family of gamers.

    A LITTLE BOY DIED. What the hell is wrong with some of you? What is there to debate? Absolutely nothing. The parents are not to blame. The XBox is not to blame. This is just a freak accident that rarely happens, and nothing more.

    What happened here is just horrible. My heart really goes out to the parents here.

    The only complaint I do have is maybe they should’ve focused less on the XBox and more on looking for Brandon, but really — You don’t know with kids anymore. We’re living in a world where you can’t even trust your own shadow. I’ll say my prayers for Brandon Crisp, and give my little nephew extra hugs.

    Because, really… you just don’t know what could happen out there. Love your family, for you never know when they’ll be gone.

    Amy Levandoski

  87. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    EDIT: Dammit!

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  88. Chuma says:

    If my point was lost on you, then I give up on you before I even begin.  Also, if you picked the Hells Angels because you wanted to universally condemn a group, you failed.  I know a couple of people who used to be in the Hells Angels, one of whom is still a friend of mine and SHE is married with a kid and a great woman.

    Let me spell it out for you;  generalisations on such a grand scale as "gamers" fail.  As long as you continue to make sweeping statements, you will only find resentment, annoyance and, in some cases, vitriol.  If you want to debate Game Politics on this website, at least do a little bit of research on the subject and the people involved within it before making such comments or you are going to be compared to the likes Of Jack Thompson.  The reason?  He constantly made sweeping generalisations that were so wide of the mark as to be potentially libelous.

    …And no, before you say it, I don’t think you are him, I just think you are deluded with your preconceptions and unwilling to actually curb your attitudes towards us as a group.  I know there have been some pretty spiteful comments by some of the members of the forum in previous threads, but that is no reason to continue this vendetta-like behaviour.

  89. nightwng2000 says:

    "nip it in the bud"

    Translation:  Non-Technological Parental Control.

    Really now, was that so hard?

    That’s not sarcasm or sniping.  Just straight out what I’ve been saying all along.  Parental Controls aren’t just button pushing.

    Nightwng2000

    NW2K Software

    Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

  90. Pierre-Olivier says:

    Argh. Don’t remind me.

    He was one of those who criticize peoples about traits they have: intolerance.

    We need those guys as we need a diarrhea.

  91. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    EDIT 2: Son-of-a…

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  92. Andrew Eisen says:

    Thanks.  GP announced it in the Shoutbox but there have been so many shouts today that it was gone in about four minutes.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  93. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    Congrats on your promotion, Andrew. You could’ve told us, though.

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  94. Amen4u says:

    Just to let some members know, The Crisps have not spoken to the media since learning the outcome of their son’s death. They have made a statement that they need to be left alone to greive. They will make a statement on Wednesday to the press. I have not heard any reports to the fact that they are filing a lawsuit. I am sure that this is the last thing on their minds at this point.

  95. Austin_Lewis says:

    Then don’t lie about the deceased.  Have you no shame?  You are absolutely as bad as Jack Thompson, spreading disinformation wherever you go.

    AE:  That’s a bit too far.  If you want to debate a specific point, go ahead but kindly keep it civil.

  96. Amen4u says:

    And what gives you the right to tell everyone that I am lying, a liar and a trouble maker. Stay out of my replies and everything should be fine.

  97. Austin_Lewis says:

    And here she lies again.  If you recall, she had claimed she came here with no opinion on the subject.

  98. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    And that’s far enough. Dennis has been notified of this.

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  99. Amen4u says:

    Thats fine, but some children put up a real fuss. Hect my four year old is already throwing tantrums about playing Xbox- a scooby doo game her father bought her. IS she addicted NO- just likes the game. could it be a problem–yes, if I don’t nip it in the bud.

  100. PHX Corp says:

    IMHO, Children need to limit thier time on any game, It’s very easy. Set aside 1 hour and when time’s up Tell them to take a break (I’m not a parenting advisor but I’m making a point)

    In short if the crisp family used that, We wouldn’t be in the mess were in right now with Flame wars out the wazoo (Also made a point aswell)

  101. Amen4u says:

    I lashed out at people that were being insenstive to the situation and Brandon’s parents. And to people that were closed minded about the potential that Brandon was addicted to gaming. Just because the member here do not think that there is a possibility to  game addiction doesn’t give them the right to hang me out either.

  102. PHX Corp says:

    JT litterally attacked people immaturly, you didn’t do anything that hurt us in fact you acted Maturely, what I did was a short summary that the Moron in Miami did That hurt us Royally

  103. PHX Corp says:

    He attacked Judges, lawyers, Destroyed a fax machine, Posted Gay porn to a Judge, Threatened this site with lawsuits and 1 death threat. I think that’s enough to describe JT

  104. Amen4u says:

    Jarmne123

     In Nut shell I am a newcomer to this site, I was very disturbed at some of the comments posted about Brandon and his family. I have been accused to be other people, mainly JT and Liz Wooley, neither of I had a clue to who was before this.

    I came here prior to Brandon being found to maybe get some help on where to look, My husband was assisting in ground search and I thought I could help on internet search. I had no clue where to look. I stumbled on this site and asked for some help. I have been caught up in this battle ever since defending Brandon and his parents.

    Some posters really pushed my buttons and I said things that I probably should not have, but have appologized for since. I have been called every nasty name out there and retaliated to the same childish tactics, that I am not proud of. This thread and the one before it has brought out the worse in me. I am really ashamed that I have stooped to a lower level of some of the members.

    I never came here to cause any trouble, but find myself continuing in spite of being defeated. Some of the members here are very cruel. All they want to do is hurt people and put word into their opinion that was not intended. Yes I beleive that games can be addicting, and no I do not think that everyone is addicited, nor do I think anyone is stupid if they disagree. I only hate the fact that people are so cruel to condemn Brandon’s family for his death.  And when I make a retaliation to such I get accused of being a Troll, whatever that is.

    I have been called a fucking idiot, jerk, moron, troll, amoung many other names, but when I say that I think that someone is evil for blaming the parents I get attacked. I am not a gamer, but my husband is. I have no opnion on gamers.

    Members want me to leave just because I do not share their opinion. I guess they have chased out people in the past for this same reason.  I have spoke to Dennis and have expressed my involvment from the very beginning. If he has no problem with me being here then that is good enough for me.

  105. Amen4u says:

    You see, I already said, "against that kind of behaviour I am not capable of making neutral replies". What I witnessed was someone being upset about parental skills being criticized, then doing the same in return. Even worse, making personal attacks to make someone’s opinion worth less. Last time I checked, that was called a fallacy.

    Last I checked that was called –  the pot calling the kettle black. Until you have walked in mans shoes you have no right to  judge. And I already appologized for my statement to Nightwgn for my comments to him.

  106. Jarmne123 says:

    What the hell? I’m gone for like a week or more…And this happens!

    I know I’m a little late but still…

     

    May Bradon Crisp Rest in peace

     

  107. Baruch_S says:

    Christians are also white, black, asian, male, female, young, old, and come from across the globe. What’s your point?

  108. ezbiker555 says:

    Maam, I think your best bet is to not post on here if it causes you a lot of problems, as it is clearly doing, than it wouldn’t improve. I can understand where your coming from becasue I been in a similar situation( just not about video games however). Yes here and there are a few idiots on these boards but you got to remeber, that this is a community, and we the video gamers have been subject of attacks from numbers of differnt people. As a community, we make sure that everyone has a say but when it comes to name calling and flame wars, than thats were the line is drawn. We also have the right to defend oursevles just like you do. Somethings you have stated are quite similar to Jack Thompson and Liz Wooley. I know as you have stated you haven’t heard of these people. We get so many attacks on this website, that all of us here in this community couldn’t just sit there and be attack like that. We try and deal with the people that make dumb comments but we don’t need more people coming on here and saying that we are all bunch of idiots or fat druggies or whatever people who hate us come on here to say to us.  I can understand also what Dennis is saying that its good to hear from the non-gamers. Its true, that we appricate what you have said but you don’t need to go overboard and insult us like that.

    I honeslty don’t know what eles to say, I respect others opinions untill names and overreactions is brought in. Than it just gets out of hand like it has for the past several days on here. A kid is dead people. I’m tired of pointing fingers, im tired of trying to figure out who’s at fault. I’m tired of it all. Just stop it. Let’s just put our opinons in a civil manner down and not get all hot headed with each other. I can say that I have had to learn to keep my posts civil over time here and I’m making an effort to not be so emotional in the posts. I have said things on here that I regrett and some that I don’t (Jack Thompson).

    So please guys. Stop, on both sides. We can debate this like civil people or we can resort to arguing and pointing fingers (I know I did point fingers people and I intend to stop that as of today) in a uncivil manner. I vote for the first one

     

  109. Zevorick says:

    Just think of all the productive things you could be doing with your time right now. Instead of arguing with us Evil folks, you could be organizing a charity to raise money for cancer research (http://sarcasticgamer.com/wp/index.php/2008/10/join-the-cavegirls-to-fight-cancer.html). You could be sending aid to our troops overseas (http://www.gamepolitics.com/2008/11/10/gamer-army-wife-keeps-combat-troops-supplied-video-games). You could be helping sick and dying children in the hospital have some form of distraction and relief (http://www.childsplaycharity.org/). You could even organize a marathon of your favorite activity to raise $11,000 for your favorite charity (http://www.mariomarathon.com/). Bah, nevermind. If you left us alone for ten minutes to do something worthwhile, then how on Earth would we know how evil we truly were?

  110. LujanD says:

    Agreed Kincyr. It’s pretty much Jack Thompson’s style to exploit the death of a child to further his own agenda. And Gamernonsense has already attempted to start several flame-wars within, well, every single one of his posts — again, just like good ol’ JT would.

  111. Amen4u says:

    And if video game addiction was such a serious problem, then how come I don’t see any Betty Ford clinics that are dedicated to curing it? It doesn’t make any sense to me and there is a serious double standard here when people are trying to tackle this so-called "addiction" when there is a much more wide scale problem with drug addiction and yet no one is up in arms about it.

    ——————

    Well if you search, there are clinic and Pyhcologists that dedicate their profession to gaming addiction.

  112. Keddren says:

    That’s…not true.  You’re actually a poster at OLGANON (or whatever that abortion of a website is called).  Your "addiction to Super Mario Brothers" gave it away (a user there mentioned it in a recent post).

  113. Amen4u says:

     We are white, black, asian, male, female, young, old and come from across the globe.  Until people like you learn this and stop generalising, your views will always be misshapen and erroneous.

    Yeah what’s your point, Hells Angels are are white, black, asian, male, female, young, old and come from across the globe too.

  114. gamepolitics says:

    I’ve heard nothing about that and I’ve been following the case very closely.

    Have a link or some other documentation on that?

     


  115. Amen4u says:

    "The biggest bitch (retarded troll) barks the loudest". 

    Call me what you like, but if you have any intelligence whatsoever then you would actually give a comment as such.

    I am not  troll, I am  a  human being drawn in by a bunch of insensitive comments.

    I do not classify all gamers into one catergory, I do not blame Gamers for Brandon’s death, but I am disgusted at some of the posts. SO WHAT.

    You say that I am the minority? I think that my only fault here is taking the baite. But I have been accussed of not  knowing when to let go.

    As for the others, I think that they so not want to get caught up in your bashing remarks. They are twice removed from the situation and probably don’t have the time or energy to rubutt your postings.

    It is really sad that you can not have a civilized discussion over an issue and resort to calling people names to get attention.

    Would you like me to go and change my username to TROLL,???

     

  116. Krono says:

    If you think this was out of control, then you really ought to look at some of the old Jack threads from the livejournal days.

    -Gray17

  117. Phil_HarrisMMA says:

    Before I begin, my heart goes out to the parents of Brandon Crisp. Now that that’s out of the way…

    As much as Brandon’s behavor shows signs of an addiction to video games, it can’t be as bad as having him being addicted to even worse things. I mean, I’m train in mixed martial arts whenever I can, so does that mean that I’m addicted to MMA? Probably, but it’s certainly better than having me shoot myself up with heroin or get messed up on crystal meth. And if video game addiction was such a serious problem, then how come I don’t see any Betty Ford clinics that are dedicated to curing it? It doesn’t make any sense to me and there is a serious double standard here when people are trying to tackle this so-called "addiction" when there is a much more wide scale problem with drug addiction and yet no one is up in arms about it.

    ——————

    RIP Evan Tanner

    "Is Darth Vader gonna have to Force Choke a bitch?!?"

  118. Phil_HarrisMMA says:

    Before I begin, my heart goes out to the parents of Brandon Crisp. Now that that’s out of the way…

    As much as Brandon’s behavor shows signs of an addiction to video games, it can’t be as bad as having him being addicted to even worse things. I mean, I’m train in mixed martial arts whenever I can, so does that mean that I’m addicted to MMA? Probably, but it’s certainly better than having me shoot myself up with heroin or get messed up on crystal meth. And if video game addiction was such a serious problem, then how come I don’t see any Betty Ford clinics that are dedicated to curing it? It doesn’t make any sense to me and there is a serious double standard here when people are trying to tackle this so-called "addiction" when there is a much more wide scale problem with drug addiction and yet no one is up in arms about it.

    ——————

    RIP Evan Tanner

    "Is Darth Vader gonna have to Force Choke a bitch?!?"

  119. Erik says:

    Yeah, this is going to be a pretty open and shut case.  They paid for the games, they paid for live and they allowed him to play the game.  Microsoft’s responsibility ended at the checkout counter.

     

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  120. Flamespeak says:

    You know you could always just not read the comments and move along.

    These are not forced upon you and you don’t have to read them at all.

  121. Adamas Draconis says:

    Zevo…If I could be sure that I wouldn’t tie my tounge into a square knot trying to say that, I’d use it in convosation just to see people’s faces while they try to decipher it.

    *Hands Zevorick a cookie*

    Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

  122. PHX Corp says:

    Excuse me While I go and Get dennis McCauly via Email, It is just sickening to see you guys act this way, While I’m at it I’ll cry because the situation went out of control

  123. PHX Corp says:

    It was very sickening to see the statements, We should be Mature before we hold a debate in the comments section

  124. Zevorick says:

    As an atheistic christian-supporting homoheterosexual polyamouritical chaste pagan I find your statement offensive…

  125. Zevorick says:

    You are partially right about why gambling is addictive. It’s not so much the money, although that is one big aspect of it, but the Variable Ratio schedule of reinforcement that is so addicting. Things that have this kind of reinforcement are highly addictive in comparison to other activities that have other schedules of reinforcement. This is why some people can actually get addicted to nonmoney based gambling games such as online poker (the free tables). Games, especially MMO’s have been using this type of reinforcement for quite some time, though there appears to be some nuances that separate the two depending on the situation. 

    There are some differences between gambling and video game addictions, especially in the need for social belonging that comes with a lot of online gaming addictions. However, you are still looking at a vast minority of users. I’d guess conservatively that less than 1% of gamers ever develope a problem, so branding the entire behavior is moronic at best. Some people will never learn though *cough* amen *cough*

  126. Flamespeak says:

    I wonder if Canada got better or if America got worse…..

    Anyway, here is to Canada! America’s Hat!

    *Pounds a brew (well coke, because on the job)*

  127. nightwng2000 says:

    Filing it, arguing it, and succeeding at it are three different things.

    They can always file it.

    If it doesn’t get thrown out immediately, they may even get to argue it.

    But win at it?  Very unlikely.  If this were the 1950s and it were a local court, very likely they could win. 

    But this case would have to be the Canadian equivilant of Federal most likely.

    Nightwng2000

    NW2K Software

    Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

  128. hellfire7885 says:

    Why do I get a feeling someone who isn’t supposed ot get involved in law anymore had something to do with this……


  129. HungryHungryHomer says:

    I don’t think that a case could be made even in the marathon scenario. If I went out tomorrow and bought all the available seasons of The Simpsons on DVD, sat down,  and watched them all in a row without regard for sanitation, sustenance, or rest and keeled over as a result, would FOX be liable? Matt Groening? The Best Buy I got them from?

    No. It’s just that when tragedies like this happen, it’s easier to look and blame a faceless ‘boogeyman’, even though there is little to no chance of reparation, than it is to look closer to the source and realize that personal responsibility may have been lacking. It’s a defense mechanism that keeps people from thinking ‘Oh my God, what have I done!?’

  130. Zerodash says:

    Has there ever been a lawsuit like this before?  If a teen runs away because of an argument over his rock music being too loud, can the parents sue the music label if the kid dies while out?

  131. xDimMaK says:

    The negligence charges would be more valid than the parents’ case against Microsoft nonetheless. I’m tired of parents trying to use video games as a scapegoat for their poor parenting.

  132. nightwng2000 says:

    Probably shouldn’t be negligence charges brought against them.  I don’t really see it as negligence as opposed to simply not having control over a situation which they could have been in more control of.  That’s not necessarily neglect.  Now, if they had ignored it altogether, maybe then neglect.  But the situation appears to be more that they didn’t really up the ante in the control area at various points when it should have been time to do so.

    nightwng2000

    NW2K Software

    Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

  133. Michael Chandra says:

    So I’ll stop responding to Amen4u now, and to make sure I don’t I’ll be requesting a temp ban for a week. That should keep me out of here.

    You see, I already said, "against that kind of behaviour I am not capable of making neutral replies". What I witnessed was someone being upset about parental skills being criticized, then doing the same in return. Even worse, making personal attacks to make someone’s opinion worth less. Last time I checked, that was called a fallacy.
    Fallacy, right? I have problems with my english sometimes, let me check… "A fallacy is a component of an argument which, being demonstrably flawed in its logic or form, renders the argument invalid in whole." Check.
    Anyway, to be honest I’m really disgusted by a hypocrit saying it’s not okay to attack parental skills, then doing the same herself. Stooping to one’s level means one no longer has the right to act superior, and this behaviour is making me nausious, I don’t think I’ll be able to control myself if I were to respond to someone who never bothered to read my entire posts and only the parts she can attack, where the attack no longer makes sense if you read the rest of it. Hell, I disagree with people blaming the parents, and suddenly I’m only protecting my own kind because I don’t like someone, ESPECIALLY a parent, to use a child in an attack.

    Ahwell, I’m already starting to lose control as the caps show, and since I have no interest in going to troll level, I’ll just follow the sign, "Don’t feed the Troll(s)".

    Sincerely,

    Michael Chandra

  134. Zerodash says:

    The parents (who have now demonstrated their character with this lawsuit) are in for a rough time when their lawsuit fails.  This whole thing echos what happened to D&D back in the day.  Had the child died of exhaustion from a gaming marathon session, like what happens in Korea, a case could be made.  But, as always, you need to follow the money.  These people have all but killed any goodwill they should have gotten from gamers. 

    I am still suprised that there hasn’t been a negligence charge put against the parents yet. 

  135. Michael Chandra says:

    "We’ve gone out of our way to help while according to many experts we had absolutely no blame in this, and this is how we’re rewarded, yay. Tell the PR team they’re fired."

  136. Nocturne says:

    There’s several angles that a court case would have difficulties in

    Between a Mature Rated game, Xbox Live subscription paid for and no parental controls set (I’m assuming that last one as the argument that consoles should have parental controls came up despite them having had them for several years now) there was no reason for MS to assume this was not an adult gamer so entitled to spend as much time on the console as they choose

    The paperwork with the console and the games advises that games shouldn’t be played for too long and regular breaks should be taken.

    The studies which claim the existence of game addiciton also state it to be a psychological problem similar to impulse control disorder. As the manufacturer of the console it’s not something MS would be in a position to check on, they have no contact with the consumer so it’s not even like a gambling addict in a casino, they can’t monitor individuals effectively. 

    It should be noted most of the studies that are in support of game addiciton do not blame the games/developers themselves, they only make the case that the condition exists, they just often get twisted for other agendas by those not involved in the studies.

  137. LujanD says:


    Whether I’m a hypocrite or not is seriously all a matter of opinion as I, personally, saw no reason to attack Grizzam, while you apparently believe he deserved being called stupid. If you could elaborate on why Grizzam warranted this insult, then please, go on; it may help your argument. Otherwise, I hardly see my action as hypocritical as I was merely defending someone, along with myself (considering videloandhero initially did insult everyone) from a senseless attack. If defending myself (or someone else) is considered the route only an asshole would take, then really, who am I to argue against such awe-inspiring “wisdom” eh?

     

  138. BearDogg-X says:

    If it’s true, then they’re pretty foolish, especially since it was the father who packed the bag for him and allowed him to leave the house. And paid for Brandon’s XBox Live subscription. And the principal of his school refuted any claims of poor grades and poor attendance of school, suggesting no "addiction" at all. And that there’s no conclusive evidence of any "video game addiction".

    So I believe that the parents would lose any lawsuit.

    But if they were intending for them to become unsympathetic, they won that. I no longer have sympathy for the parents, since they apparently want to put a price tag on their son’s life.

    Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.


    Proud supporter of the New Orleans Saints, LSU, 1st Amendment; Real American; Hound of Justice; Even through the darkest days, this fire burns always

    Saints(3-4), LSU(7-0)

  139. Adamas Draconis says:

    If I may add to that list. We are also athesists,christians,pagans,budhists,muslims. We are gay,straight,Bisexual,polyamourus,chaste. We span damn near the entire spectrum.

     

    Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

  140. gamernonsense says:

    Let me get this straight:  You’re criticizing someone for being critical of someone else, and in doing so you call him an "asshole" and a "hypocrite"???!!!  Dude, buy a freaking mirror to see the hypocrite.  Seriously.

  141. gamernonsense says:

    CBLT-TV up here in Ontario is reporting that Brandon Crisp’s family is preparing a lawsuit against Microsoft based upon his addiction to XBox games and the failure of Microsoft to warn about the addiction problem.  Sounds pretty credible to me.  Anybody know anything more? 

  142. Adamas Draconis says:

    Ummmm…Jerky…

    But yeah. Aparently all gamers are anti-social freaks that have nothing better to do in their lives. I dislike people who think that way. But then I get tired of people looking at me like a maniac because I wear a longcoat when the weather starts getting cool.

    Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

  143. ezbiker555 says:

    I believe this thread should simply be used as a place to post thoughts and opinions. Not flame wars and blame games. A kid’s dead guys. Yeah I know earily, i had opinated posts but now its like, come one. Just stop fighting. Please.

  144. Benjamin_Snow says:

    usually, when you are the miniority, you’re going to speak louder than everyone eles because of your size.  Like they say, "The biggest bitch (retarded troll) barks the loudest".  Almost all of these "trolls" can’t even troll right!

     

    Also, people  like negative things because it’s popular. 

    I had a feeling he would died to the elements and not to something even more tragic like murder.  I’m just sorry for what his family going to go through.  The media cirus, people ousting the dad (despite he blamming whatever, as a father, he did the right thing by steeping in and trying to stop his son from getting addicted)

    Sad that the kid died for being a fool.

    "We may be human, but we’re still animals" -Steve Vai (World’s greatest guitarist!)

  145. sortableturnip says:


    We don’t need no water let the **** burn,
    Burn **** burn.

    Hello my name is Sortableturnip and I’m a dumb white guy,
    I’m not old or new but middle school fifth grade like junior high,
    I don’t know mofo if y’all peeps be buggin’ give props to my ho cause she all fly,
    But I can take the heat cause I’m the other white meat known as ‘Kid Funky Fried’,
    Yeah I’m hung like planet Pluto hard to see with the naked eye,
    But if I crashed into Uranus I would stick it where the sun don’t shine,
    Cause I’m kind of like Han Solo always stroking my own wookie,
    I’m the root of all that’s evil yeah but you can call me cookie,
    The thread, the thread, the thread is on fire,
    The thread, the thread, the thread is on fire,
    The thread, the thread, the thread is on fire,
    We don’t need no water let the **** burn,
    Burn **** burn.

    Yo yo this hard-core ghetto gangster image takes a lot of practice,
    I’m not black like Barry White no I am white like Frank Black is,
    So if man is five and the devil is six than that must make me seven,
    This honkey’s gone to heaven,
    But if I go to hell then I hope I burn well,
    I’ll spend my days with J.F.K., Marvin Gaye, Martha Raye, and Lawrence Welk,
    And Kurt Cobain, Kojak, Mark Twain and Jimi Hendrix’s poltergeist,
    And Jack yeah John Bruce Thompson cause he’s the anti-christ,
    The thread, the thread, the thread is on fire,
    The thread, the thread, the thread is on fire,
    The thread, the thread, the thread is on fire,
    We don’t need no water let the **** burn,
    Burn **** burn.

    Everybody here we go,
    Ohh Ohh,
    C’mon party people,
    Ohh Ohh,
    Throw your hands in the air,
    Ohh Ohh,
    C’mon party people,
    Ohh Ohh,
    Wave ’em like you don’t care,
    Ohh Ohh,
    C’mon party people,
    Ohh Ohh,
    Everbody say ho,
    Ohh Ohh,
    C’mon party people,
    Ohh Ohh,
    Everybody here we go.

     

     

  146. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    Nice.

    *Tosses d.vel.oper a cookie*

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  147. SliderNL says:

    The sad fact is that thousands of children die in these kind of accidents, bad luck doesn’t make it less sad, esspecially for the parents and other people in his life.

    About Politics: If you think the problems we create are bad, wait till you see our solutions.

  148. nightwng2000 says:

    So you see a site with the word "politics" in the name and it’s an option for help in searching for Brandon? 

    Seriously.  The claims were he was involved in an XBox Live game of COD4.  If you really wanted help finding him, you should have looked up the resources most closely relating to those he directly associated with.  One would think that you would have gotten such search suggestions from your husband who supposedly is in the business of search and rescue.

    I don’t care what your leisure time interests are.  I, like many, actually have dozens.  Books, movies, video/computer games, writing, visiting various news sites and discussing/arguing about various issues, and many others.  You seem to be of the opinion that the folks here have only one interest and probably even only one genre within that interest is what they focus on.  Because this is a specialty news site, that’s how it would APPEAR.  If this were a site about sports, it would appear we would only care about sports.  Same with business, general politics (or even specific political issues), or any number of specific specialty sites.

    "…my husband is too busy looking for missing children addicted to games…"

    Actually, if he’s intelligent, he looks for kids who go missing, no matter WHY they go missing and doesn’t taint his searches with such limited, ignorant bull pucky as that.

    "Do I think you are evil. Yes."

    Whoopy doo.

    "It is because you choose to pick apart and lay blame on parents you know nothing about."

    Amazing the hypocrisy in that one statement, huh?  It’s ok for you to use generalized, one sided "research" to pick apart and attack individuals you know nothing about, but when we use the information available to pick apart things that happen in the public eye, we’re evil.  Tell ya what, when you read a news story, ANY news story, never ever make a comment about it ever again.  Why?  Look up at that very sentence of yours and apply it to YOU.  You’re telling us we have no Right to comment on others.  Fine.  Neither do you.  Personally, I prefer Freedom of Speech, but hey, whatever rocks yer boat.

    BTW, nowhere did I say you, or anyone else, HAD to accept my opinion.  YOU are the one doing that.  If we don’t accept YOUR views, you attack the individual making the counter argument.

    Please.  Keep going.  I’m enjoying your rants.

    Nightwng2000

    NW2K Software

    Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

  149. Chuma says:

    If you mean the "I come from their community" and "I spoke to the father" bits, yeah I got that same vibe and am inclined to agree.  I just held back because of the subject matter, but they are getting out of hand now.

  150. Chuma says:

    Sorry, but you don’t get to decide who is "evil" or not, and accusing people of being stupid because of their "pass time" is frankly pathetic.  Gamers are not a clique or small demographic anymore; they number in their tens of millions and cover all ages, social backgrounds and both genders.  Last Christmas, we got my mom a DS and she has been playing on it ever since, so much so that we got her a Wii for her birthday which she is now enjoying.  Both myself and my sister have been playing computer games since an early age and what has come of it?  I enjoy a career as a programmer.

    If you were just attacking those that were making sick jokes, well that would be one thing, though frankly there were plenty of people within the GP community that were on top of that long before you arrived.  If you were attacking those that didn’t care, there’s limited sympathy on my part for that but frankly most people in the world aren’t going to care about someone they have never met, even if they do agree it is a shame.  Unfortunately you chose to attack everyone involved in gaming on this site and try to generalise us, ignoring any comments that didn’t fit your profile.  This makes you as popular and as oblivious as certain ex-attorneys.

    It is sad that people like you know so little about something but still try to tell those who are actually involved in it the repeated misinformation they know to be untrue, as well as insulting their intelligence.  You chose the wrong method to debate and thus you have been exposed to be nothing more than a troll on here.  We are programmers, lawyers, doctors, republicans, democrats, lib dems, tories, labour voters, white, black, asian, male, female, young, old and come from across the globe.  Until people like you learn this and stop generalising, your views will always be misshapen and erroneous.

    I’d suggest you live true to your word and go now as these flame wars get tiresome.

  151. mootyslayer says:

    Do I think you are evil. Yes

    Is it because you disagree with me. NO

    It is because you choose to pick apart and lay blame on parents you know nothing about.

    Kinda like you are blaming us for being gamers but you know nothing about most of us. Not as gamers but human beings with our own opinions. Pretty much just read what you wrote. But instead of blame parents put gamers.

  152. mootyslayer says:

    So corporations and manufacturues are responsible when some one drinks a ton of alchohol and then decide to drive and then crash there car into another car? Is that the fault of the people who sell/make the product or the person that used the product. The car and the alchohol being the product.

    If corporations and manufacturues are responsible for there products once they are bought by others. Then why do we not sue them all when things go wrong? Cause as far as i know once you buy the product its yours to do with as you please. Unless you are saying that the car you bought is not actually yours but still the companies you bought it from.

    Plus if you think about it. Everything being made and sold out in the world need other companies to help build there products. One company may sell hammers but the other company may sell nails and the other company brings you wood. In order to build a table you need all these companies to sell you parts. So are we to blame the company that sells hammers or nails or wood or all 3.

    Another example so its on the video game topic.  All the parts inside a game system are mainly built by other companies. Hard drive, memory, video card, etc. They need those parts to build the xbox 360 system. So by your logic we would have to go down the list of all the companies who have parts in the 360 and blame them as well. And the people who sold the system to the family and the maybe even the credit card company cause they gave the father a card so his son was able to go online.

    So where does the blame stop and the healing begin. They lost a son. If you were really there friend it would seem like you would be there with them instead of coming here to critizise people for wondering and talking about what may or may not have happend.

     

     

  153. Cavalier says:

    This idea only leads to a culture of litigation.  Do you really want to have to sign a disclaimer every time you purchase any product from any other person, explicitly laying out how you may use it, and what uses they are not responsible for?  Planning on spending six hours at the grocery store reading the eulas for each item of food you buy?

  154. spastkid says:

    I think the problem may not be that the negative minority is the loudest. The positive and/or compassionate are just as loud. Its just that the detractors seem to ignore them in favour of proclaiming that the gamers and gaming industry are insensitive to human loss, incompassionate, evil so on and so forth.

    No matter what we do, we will not be able to stop negative comments, at least not without some serious thought control, but that’s not a place we should be looking to go into. The main issue I see here, is that for some reason, as gamers, we’re supposed to display compassion and sympathy above and beyond the average human so as to be able to be part of human society. However, that’s odd in itself. 

    The mindset of our detractors as a whole (I may be wrong, so correct me please.) is that as gamers, our hobbies apparently put upon us, a higher burden of proof of our "humanity" in order to be human. Is that necessary? Where does it end? How far back must we lean back in order to please them?

    To those who claim that we must show sympathy for this case because we’re human, I say to ye all, "Nay!". It is precisely that we have a choice to do so or not that makes us human. I will say this, "We are human. We are not compelled to think as others do, or as others instruct. We are free!" While this may sound dramatic, or sound like we’re some kinda resistance group, this is the main thing that bothers me. That unfortunately, humans have the tendency to demonify others and require them to act in a similar fashion to be "human", as if being human was an elite members-only club.

    Sorry for the long-winded text block, but I feel that this whole flamewar over Brandon Crisp has gone too far. It can only end in tears if we were to let it go on.

    ————————————————————————

    Oooh! You mean there are people around with the mythical "Common Sense"?

  155. d.vel.oper says:

    I don’t get why he thinks we care. Like we need more self-important assholes in the games industry. We’ll just get another inhuman Too Human dev.

    /rant

  156. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    Actually, I don’t get how or why he turned like that.

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  157. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    Nice. Have a cookie.

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  158. sarahvait says:

    Yeah, I know.  I’m not upset about that, or upset at all really.  I just think Videolandhero’s whole, "People here have been jerks about the situation, so that means that the entire gaming industry is the same way and I want to nothing to do with them anymore" is just childish.  I’m not saying the game’s industry is some kinda of sacred deity, but geez, that sort of thinking is just silly.  I don’t know, maybe I’m just letting it rub me the wrong way too much.

  159. Austin_Lewis says:

    Actually, it’s because I logged on at midnight because this is when I read my news, send emails, and get everything else done. 

    Don’t kid yourself; you’re a hateful little person, and I’d disagree with you on this no matter what. I don’t doubt that you’ve been here lying the whole time, and when I get that vibe that someone’s lying, its very rarely wrong.

  160. Austin_Lewis says:

    Actually, corporations and manufacturers do not hold responsibility for their product. 

    On my nightstand is a Colt 1911 70 Series.  It has been heavily customized.  Were I to hear an intruder in my house, go downstairs and end his life with said pistol, I would bear the responsibility, not Colt Manufacturing.

    Similarly, the thug in the inner city who uses his Colt pistol to commit crimes is responsible for it, not Colt Manufacturing.

    The same applies for drugs, food, alcohol, and anything else one can buy.

     

  161. Austin_Lewis says:

    You don’t think that you deserved what you got?  You don’t think that, even when ‘your side’ of the story doesn’t match with a news source that you shouldn’t be outed as a liar?  You didn’t bring those insults on yourself when you made light of Nightwng’s decision to medicate his child (ONE OF THE HARDEST DECISIONS A PARENT CAN MAKE)?  You didn’t come here and rant at us from the very beginning under a different title?  You don’t think that spreading falsehoods is an evil thing to do?

    Let’s face it, you came here with nothing productive in mind.  Nothing I’ve seen you say on here has been verified elsewhere, which is strange because media is sympathetic to the parents of a deceased child, especially when they’ve already picked out their scapegoat.  If the father hadn’t packed his son’s bag, that would’ve been corrected by now. 

  162. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    A lot of people can be jerks when certain things happen, Sarah. No one’s perfect, and that’s why we have admins and mods.

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  163. GRIZZAM PRIME says:

    That fell on everybody, and I don’t see anybody else doing this shit.

     

    -Remember kids, personal responsibility is for losers! -The Buck Stops Here.

  164. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    That’s it. I fucking warned you, and I wasn’t fucking around. Now, if you will excuse me, I need to go and speak with Dennis and EZK.

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  165. Amen4u says:

    I had nnoooooooooo opinion before I came on here. I had searched several sites to gain some knowleged to where I maybe could get some input on how to help search for Brandon…I had no idea what GAME POLITICS was as to any other gaming site, Didn’t know who LIz Wooley was until some asked if I knew her. Didn’t know what Katoku was until mentioned, so buzz off.

    I have been called a liar, cheat, moron, fucking idiot, not to mention several other nasty names. I refrained from responding,  most of the time, but when I saw you so hardenly ripping apart the parents of a dead child, you deserved a bit of your own medicine.  I do not spend much time on gaming information. never had and probably never will. I  am not interested in games and my husband is too busy looking for missing children addicted to games,so he has no time to -play…

    I didn’t come here to rant, because I couldn’t give a rats ass about debating your pass times. I did gain some pretty good insight about how  and why you get to be hated so much. 

    Would I have ever come here if it wasn’t for research, NO

    Why did I post on this thread, well go back and look at my first post. It was under Yawheh, I changed a little further down. 

    Do I think you are evil. Yes

    Is it because you disagree with me. NO

    It is because you choose to pick apart and lay blame on parents you know nothing about.

    """life experience far outweighs looking up studies on Wikipedia or various articles found searching on Google, """

    Are you NUTS?

    Ya I am just suppose to take your opnion to be truth. because well you have a more screwed up life than most right?

  166. DeepThorn says:

    Good point about the money.  Video game makes dont want their games to be addictive actually, just like how car makers dont want their cars to last forever.  They want you to buy the next one, so they have to make it so you are willing to put down the last.


    Nido Web Flash Tutorials AS2 and AS3 Tutorials for anyone interested.
    Financial Calculator

  167. sarahvait says:

    Sooo…your solution is to throw a hissy fit and lose hope in something you wished to persue as a career?  Don’t you realize that this isn’t the nature of the games industry, it’s the nature of the entire #$%^ing world?  Especially when you add in the anonymity of the internet.  There could be a news story about a dead baby found mutilated in a dumpster (God forbid) and for every post of someone being sympathetic and saying how horrible it is, there’ll be about 3 other people making dead baby jokes or some other crap.  Maybe it’s because they’re jerks.  Maybe it’s because the situation is so horrible that they don’t want to deal with it directly, so they make bad jokes to help themselves sort through it.  You don’t know who these people are or where they’re coming from, just like I don’t know you, so maybe everything I’m saying right now is unwarrented.  And if so, then I apologize.

    But my harshest point of view on you right now?  You’re whining about the game industry as having disillusioned you and being a cold, unfeeling monster based on immature INTERNET comments of random people, some who don’t even work in the game industry.

    Well, feel free to rip my comments apart anyway.  I try to sound self-righteous and it always comes out stupid drivel. 

  168. DeepThorn says:

    Excuse me, but I actually did heavy research in the feild, and in the direction of game addiction and how game can cause certain levels of violence.  Though I decided to get my degree to make games instead, I still could go back for a semester and get my degree in psychology for you.

    What has came to my attention during all the research between violence and addiction, was that parents were not parenting their kids, but just letting them do as they please when they reported a problem in the first place or a situation like this occured.  It goes to the point where I have started to feel that parents should be charged for their children’s actions or at least for neglect due to their bad parenting.  I think this case is different because they lost their son, and that is torture enough, but for those whose kids end up in jail ‘because of video games’ should be jailed as well.

    When I have kids, I would let you video tape me parenting them and critique me all that you want.


    Nido Web Flash Tutorials AS2 and AS3 Tutorials for anyone interested.
    Financial Calculator

  169. LujanD says:


    Oh, I might’ve, if you hadn’t established yourself as an asshole within your first two posts. Seriously, I hardly believe Grizzam deserved being insulted simply because he missed your point, hypocrite.

     

  170. Pierre-Olivier says:

    Don’t do the same thing as the trolls here by generalyzing every gamer as assholes. Think for a moment for those who really cared.

    It’s unfortunate that the negative minority is often the loudest.

  171. LujanD says:


    I’m sorry but I… I really don’t care…

  172. nightwng2000 says:

    As I stated before, you clearly didn’t come here for help in regards to Brandon because there was no evidence Brandon was a direct part of the specific GP community.  The specific community he was a part of was the COD4 Xbox Live community.

    It was clear you weren’t looking for help.  You came to spew your diatribe and expect everyone to agree, not because they agreed but because you called on sympathy for the disappearance then death of a child.  Garnering support for an agenda through sympathy, gee, that sounds so familiar.

    No, you didn’t come here to debate, or discuss, or gain insight, or expand your knowledge.  You came to rant.  That’s your Right.  Just as it is the Right for others to have opposing viewpoints.

    Defending games?  Are we now?  Pray tell me EXACTLY where I denied that games or any product had NO effect on Brandon?  Indeed, I clearly stated that whether you called it the equivilant of "a book you can’t put down", an obsession, or an addiction, it was in the family home, far more controlable by the Parents than things he could be exposed to outside the home (such as gangs, drugs, and even shopping).  Being in the home, the Parents had far more control, or should have, very early on.  Long before the situation reached the level it did.

    Nor was there anywhere I decreed myself an Expert.  You’ll notice, after having visited my Myspace blog, the title of my blog is "The Couch Potato Psychologist’s Home – No Experts, just sharing each other’s thoughts".  Hardly a term used by a formal expert.  But, at the same time, life experience far outweighs looking up studies on Wikipedia or various articles found searching on Google.  After all, I could pull a great many counter articles and studies if I wanted to.  But you wouldn’t be interested in them.  After all, you came with your opinions ready to smash down on the evil gamer community.  And nothing anyone here said would make a difference.  After all, we’re just gamers defending our hobby, huh?  So much for the open mind of someone claiming to be looking for help.  What you were looking for was blind agreement with your viewpoint.

    But, hey, whatever makes ya feel good about yourself.

    Nightwng2000

    NW2K Software

    Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

  173. VideolandHero says:

    Did you not notice the bitching of Liz Woolley,  the trolls, all the jackass gamers that make fun of Brandon Crisp’s death, sympathetic people getting called fake, the ambulance chasers, etc.  I was going to get into the video game industry, but seeing how it’s nothing but assholes I think I’ll pick another career choice, because I know I’ll get no thanks here.

    — Official Protector of Videoland!

  174. Erik says:

    He meant you in specific Einstein.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  175. VideolandHero says:

    Are you stupid?  Did you miss this whole "argument" over Brandon Crisp that’s been going on at every major gaming site for the past month?

    — Official Protector of Videoland!

  176. GRIZZAM PRIME says:

    If someone uses a product irresponsibly, how is that the corporation’s fault? If a company produces kitchen ware, are they responsible when some nut uses a fork as a weapon? If a person ends up addicted to a videogame, that is most certainly unfortunate, but not the developer’s fault. A videogame is not a narcotic. Any addictions that take place would be a pathological; the result of an impulse control problem (like gambling addiction), or an overproduction of dopamine (dopamine is produced by anybody during any enjoyable activity, and yet not everyone ends up an addict). I found all that on the wikipedia page you posted on the last Brandon story.

    Also, they kind of posts you are submitting are perfect flame war starters. If someone posts a comment that offends you, escalating it with an equally offensive comment doesn’t accomplish anything except make the atmosphere worse and more volatile.

     

    -Remember kids, personal responsibility is for losers! -The Buck Stops Here.

  177. Pierre-Olivier says:

    While it is true that corporations have responsability for their products, concerning video games, I’m afraid they can’t do much more that they’re already doing.

    But seriously, comparing video games to gambling was really going overboard. The main thing that makes gamblers addicted is the bait of money gain. And your analogy is wrong in more than one point. Game manufacturers don’t aim to make their games addictives. They aim their games to be fun.

    But unfortunately, depending on the person, any fun can be addictive.

  178. Erik says:

    Actually no.  If you grab a fork and jam it in your eye Oneida or any other manufacturer of kitchen cutlery is NOT responsible for you.  YOU are responsible for YOU.  Try again.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  179. LujanD says:


    Honestly, beyond product usability and determining age restrictions, the gaming industries responsibilities pretty much come to a halt.

     

  180. GRIZZAM PRIME says:

    What the fuck? Did I miss an arguement or something, because that went right over my head.

     

    -Remember kids, personal responsibility is for losers! -The Buck Stops Here.

  181. Amen4u says:

     ALL  corporations and manufactures hold responsibility for their products. and Actually I do not want you to coddle me, I now want you to Kiss my butt. LOL

     

  182. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    Um, are you joking? If so, that’s not funny. I haven’t seen anyone call you names nor have I done so myself.

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  183. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    I am going to tell you now, and I will not tell you again. The next time you post something like this, I will contact Dennis and/or EZK with a request to review your posts and to determine what to do:

    Leave it be

    Temporary suspension

    The BanHammer

    This is your last warning. I, personally, am getting sick and tired of you flaming people when they submit their own opinions and/or disagreements concerning what you say. It will end either by your hand, or by the hand of either Dennis or EZK.

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  184. BearDogg-X says:

    Well, you’re one to talk about double standards.

    This whole "debate" over game "addiction" was a lost cause to begin with, since there is and was and will be no conclusive evidence of "game addiction".

    Grow up and get a life.

    Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.


    Proud supporter of the New Orleans Saints, LSU, 1st Amendment; Real American; Hound of Justice; Even through the darkest days, this fire burns always

    Saints(3-4), LSU(7-0)

  185. VideolandHero says:

    I came on to pay my condolences to Brandon Crisp, but everybody insulted me and called me every name in the book, so I have no sympathy for anybody now.  Fuck all you gamers for calling me fake, and fuck the ambulance chasers for calling me a murderer.  You all can go to hell.

     

    : D

     

    EDIT:  I didn’t defend gaming even once.

    — Official Protector of Videoland!

  186. Erik says:

    Don’t worry.  The disgust is mutual.  The fact that you so readily eschew personal responsibility in lieu of a scapegoat is beyond loathesome.  It is the worst cancer of this or any society.  You disgust us in that you think that if we don’t fall into your sick world where children and adults need to be babysat by corporations that we are somehow being callous.  But it doesn’t matter.  You should just leave.  This is not the place where you will be coddled as you so desparately need.  What happened to Brandon, althought tragic, is between him and his parents.  Activision or any other company has nothing to do with it.  Go darken other doorsteps kneejerker.

     

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  187. Amen4u says:

     

    It really saddens me that you have nothing better to do than criticize the parents of a dead child, you are all so much better parents then them, and all experts on how to raise children. Most of you pretend to hold some sort of Psychology degree, when the statements I hear from most of you are obviously for protecting your gaming turf.
    When I read some of your posts here, especially posts by members like Nutwing 2000. I feel compelled to respond. I am really disgusted. Sorry I am entitled to my opinion. An outsider comes here to ask for help, and is now compelled to stick around and defend the parents of a dead child.
    Well I don’t have the time or energy anymore, you are a loss cause.
    I thank the members that have shown some compassion here whether or not they disagree that video gaming is addicting. I am only upset with those of you that think you are better than Brandon’s parents and have questioned their parenting skills and laid the blame upon them.
     
    And the attacks on the posters and their children, HA , why is it ok for them to hang other people out to dry, but not have their parenting questioned? Why are you so defensive about your own members and ready to pounce on me for any statement made. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. If you can’t take it then don’t dish it. I think most of you live a double standard.
     
  188. Michael Chandra says:

    When me and my bro started getting too big for the tree in our backyard, the branches started to have trouble with us and we actually broke a few branches I think, my parents cut down the tree, partially to keep us out of danger, partially because it was too damn big, I think. I always found it exciting to climb higher than a normal house and look down, but man was I scared when something made a noise.

  189. jiminycricket says:

     I did too, to see how high I could get on the skinny branches without falling.  The police are piecing together time of death and why he would have climbed the tree.  That will take a couple of days to learn but it may be just as surprising as learning his death was caused by injuries that were "consistent with that of falling out of a tree".  Apparently the medical exam is still ongoing as is examination of the death scene.

    It’s human nature to speculate but it’s also time consuming to fill in the void of impatience while the rest of us wait for the experts to finish what they do best.

  190. Michael Chandra says:

    Oh, so THAT is why I’m half-deaf! Thanks for clearing that up for me. =)

    (Disclaimer: This joke is meant as a fun joke and not anything sarcastic/whatever. I suffer from an allergy to seriousness, the only cure is to joke around whenever I’ve been too serious for a while, it does miracles.)

  191. DexX says:

    Quick note to everyone speculating on why he was up the tree, I suspect you’ve been watching too many movies (or reading too many Stephen King novels).  It is likely that we will never know for sure, but I think the most probably explanation has already been posited by a few people already – he was a teenager, he was in a bad mood, and he decided to burn off some energy by climbing a tree.

    The idea that he was chased by an animal (or worse, a gang of bullies) is fanciful and based on precisely ZERO evidence.  For one thing, bears can climb trees, so if a bear wanted him it would have had him.  More likely is a dog, but still, there’s no evidence.

    He was a kid, and kids climb trees.  I know I did.


    http://blogs.theage.com.au/screenplay/

  192. Michael Chandra says:

    To be honest, there’s a certain thing called humanity I prefer people showing. People pointing fingers is one thing, people mocking the entire case is another. Not to mention sites tend to have a comment policy, and all posters should not take their right to post for granted, you are STILL in someone’s territory, where their rules apply.

    To those who joked around, I understand an urge to try to avoid seriousness, and I understand people who for other reasons made jokes, but please let’s try to keep it nice, it’s still someone’s son, someone’s tragedy, we’re talking about. Just because it’s far from your bed doesn’t mean we should just bagatalize it, let’s show a bit more respect for the dead.

    To those who blamed the parents, to be honest I’ve been a disaster in puberty, and I know my mom at times couldn’t handle me. She had a lot of trouble with me, and so did the rest of my family, so I know what it’s like on that side. And to be honest, I don’t think, as much I blamed her for things as a teen, she had that many extra options available back then, especially because things came in waves, calm until explosion. In the end it seems that exactly that was the problem, that everything gathered until it all came out at once, but there hardly was anything she could have done there. Could the parents have done better? Yes. Should they have? Yes. Can one really expect every parent to be that perfect? No.
    Now I understand people are pissed because the parents are upset and pointing fingers as a result, it seems to me that just like Liz they are clutching onto a scapegoat. Because in the end, your child running away because of an argument and him having a lethal accident as consequence, is enough to break any parent. If they didn’t blame something else, they’d blame themselves, and maybe they’ll never be able to get rid of the "oh god, if only we didn’t have that fight, if only we hadn’t allowed him to leave, if only…" thoughts.
    Now we can point fingers at them as much as they point fingers at us, or we can express our sympathy, argue with those of us using extremely harsh words to express their frustration over the way we gamers were hounded, and admit that the blame will be there but we will stand above the hatred.

    As for Amen4u, you say you are a mother. Then please, do not attack people through their children. You as parent should be able to realize what that would feel like, to have someone say "you raise your child badly", especially with so many different parenting methods out there. Even more when it’s used in an argument because they disagree with your opinion. I’ve seen you go after several people their children and frankly it disgusted me as much as some comments people made about Brandon and his parents disgusted me. Please, for a moment imagine how you would feel if they’d say the same to you, and be better than this. Keep the quote I used before in mind, before you speak, think, will it improve on the silence?
    If you are not interested in that, then as much as I respect your opinion and understand your position, I do not think you should be here and criticize people. Furthermore, since against that kind of behaviour I am not capable of making neutral replies, I would no longer respond on your comments because my words would not be an improvement on silence.

    Sincerely,
    Michael Chandra

  193. hayabusa75 says:

    Flamespeak pretty much summed up what I was getting at in our recent brief exchange in the shoutbox concerning the flame wars.

    "There is no sin except stupidity." – Oscar Wilde

  194. Flamespeak says:

    If it is okay to comment on the article, then it is okay to comment on the article.

    If it is fine for someone to say how sad they are at the passing of Brandon Crisp, then it should also be fine for someone else to say they find it hilarious that he died.

    Simply because you don’t agree with someone’s opinion, it doesn’t really give you the right to force them to stop talking about it. Unless you are a mod, because censorship is what you are there for.

  195. Andrew Eisen says:

    Possible but unlikely.  This wasn’t a very big tree.  Jumping from it wouldn’t guarantee death and unless you landed just right, would be very painful.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  196. Flamespeak says:

    That is why I mainly have some jerky on hand, myself. Gamers this generation are pretty much viewed as the exact same stereotype as Dungeons and Dragons players from the 80’s though.

  197. Flamespeak says:

    I wonder if they will have to issue a warning on the back of video games like on cigarettes as a result of all of this.

    Warning: Playing video games may becoming addicting.

    Symptoms of video game addiction include, but are not limited to:

    Restlessness

    Compulsive Swearing

    Extreme desire for Cheetos and Mountain Dew instead of traditional dishes.

    Excessive use of Gamer Jargon in real-life scenarios. "Mom, these mashed potatoes are LEET!"

    Aversion to sunlight

    An obsession with the destruction of people that partake in outdoor activities. "I am going to kill that camper!"

     

  198. SeraphymC says:

    I hate to be the one to consider this, but It seems like everyone is assuming that the fall from the tree was an accident. I remember being fifteen, and all of the little problems then seeming so huge an devasting. This is a common age for suicides, it could be that he leapt from the tree.

    Not that it really matters, but I think suicide is more convincing than being treed by bullies as some people have suggested.

    Either way, I think this is a tradegy, and I think the parents could have probably handled the situation that led to his leaving better.

  199. NovaBlack says:

    ”If your kid eats sweets all day long for weeks, is it the candy’s fault?”

     

    more like

    ”If you continually buy sweets for your kid to eat all day long for weeks, is it the candy’s fault?”

    lets not forget the live subscription.

  200. Andrew Eisen says:

    "Why then do most here agree that parents should try and control their  children’s time on the XBOX?"

    It’s part of teaching children personal responsibility and time management skills.  I don’t think it’s a matter of controlling a kid’s video game time so much as it’s making sure that he/she uses that time in a responsible manner.

    "I have been doing alot of searching arround to get info on gaming and the potentials of addiciton. Are you guys telling me that every site out there is wrong?"

    That’s really hard to answer.  What info have you uncovered?

     

    Andrew Eisen

  201. nightwng2000 says:

    It is always a good idea to noderate one’s child’s activities and teach them to diversify their time.  Even things preceived as "good" aren’t always "good" in large quantity.  Food of any one type, even healthy food, in large quantity is still bad for you.  In fact, drinking lots and lots of water at one time can be a health risk.

    Whether one loves a particular genre of book, TV show, movies, music, games, type of food, exercise, religion (yes, even religion), etc can turn into a toxic effect.  Whether you classify that activity as the equivilant to "a book you can’t put down", an obsession, or even an addiction, it’s a well established fact that moderating the things you like a lot is more healthy than metaphorically drowning yourself in it.  And each person has a different level of metaphorically "treading water".  Plus, Parents should know their own children better than anyone else.  Even so, some Parents think that the "experts" and their generalizing is sufficient to inform about ALL children.  Some Parents become too casual while others become too strict.  And some just figure if something goes wrong, they’ll find a scapegoat to cover their arses.

    Book upon book has been written to offer suggestions on raising the average child to the troubled child.  One problem is that some people will pick a book and swear by it that it’s the end all, be all solution.  The smart Parent will take on all the suggestions they can get and modify as the situation or escalation requires.  But, also, a Parent has to just say "enough is enough, I’ve given all the chances I’m going to give!"  One can give trust to their child by when that child repeatedly breaks that trust and goes to the next level, then a Parent just has to decide that putting their foot down (nipping it in the bud) has to be the decision left to them.

    As to every other site being "wrong", much of what GP posts isn’t sourced at GP.  It’s from other resources (articles, interviews, studies, etc) from other sites.  Just because GP posts references here doesn’t mean that it all originates here.  There are a number of articles here at GP that refer to experts who challenge a variety of studies and research.  Not to mention a number of studies referred to by GP as well which show a number of positive aspects of gaming.  Up below the banner includes a Blog archive search with a number of keywords, which include words like academia, violence, social issues, and others. 

    Frankly, you’re not doing a very good job of impartial research if all you really look for is gamer addiction and don’t consider any other possibilities.  You’ve already stated certain things that show you are biased in your "research" and clearly intend to search only for evidence that supports your biased opinions and beliefs.  I could easily do the same to any number of things.  Even things you find good and pure.  It wouldn’t be too difficult to even label all religion unhealthy and inappropriate and a mental threat to children.  No matter how specific each situation I refer to could actually be seen, I could just use a sweeping generalization that religion is sociopathic in nature and we need to create help groups to get people the mental help they need.  And that anyone associated with religion needs to seek help or be considered harmful to children and adults alike.  Might not sound reasonable to someone who uses the IDs "Yahweh" or "Amen4u" because religion might be a "good" thing to you.  But, hey, I can throw out a great many news articles and suggest a great many research topics to prove my case.  After all, why would looking at the "good" aspects of religion be a good thing?  I have the evidence that it’s a "bad" thing and we must cure people of their ills, right?  Works for me anyway.

    Nightwng2000

    NW2K Software

    Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

  202. Amen4u says:

    I have a question to throw out there for you guys.

    Why then do most here agree that parents should try and control their  children’s time on the XBOX? Limit their time in some way?

    I have been doing alot of searching arround to get info on gaming and the potentials of addiciton. Are you guys telling me that every site out there is wrong? and that this site is the only one that has the correct information?

    I am sure that Brandon’s parents do not want to start a which hunt, but I would bet your bottom dollar that they will start some help organization to help other parents deal with this. And I will personally  offer to help them acheive this.

     

  203. FireWaterFX says:

    I am curious as to where the kid actually wound up, and why the police could not find him?  Seems to me that they were too busy looking into the "VIDEOGAMES DID IT" theory instead of searching the woods.

     

    Gaming online since 1999 If you enjoy source based games please check out http://www.3pointgames.com Running TF2 and other popular games.

  204. PHX Corp says:

    Well there’s my theroy of hypothermia, but I was Half right

    EDIT: after what happened in the Previous brandon crisp article. i’ll try to break up any Flame war if nesscarry

  205. Baruch_S says:

    Except that, as forms of media, they fit perfectly into this conversation. You can’t simply throw out examples because they don’t fit your little paradigm. And the cheerleading comment was to show that intelligent people don’t ban something simply because it has a few accidents or misuses. A whole lot of people drink and drive, but we ban neither cars nor alcohol. Plenty of kids also suffer serious injuries or are killed playing organized sports, but you don’t see people rallying to ban football at your local high school. There’s a distinct and logical comparison there; please take time to consider it instead of throwing it out because it doesn’t fit your preconceived notions.

    I don’t want to judge Brandon’s parents, but I think a parent has let an obsession go too far if the kid runs away from home when confronted. They should have taken the console away the first time he stayed up all night playing and probably should have sold the game when his grades and social life suffered. If he was actually addicted and had been for awhile, his parents should have come up with a solution or gotten him psychiatric help long before he ran away. That said, he fell out of a tree. It could have happened to anybody at anytime. A perfectly normal, well-adjusted child who had never played a video game could have climbed a tree and fallen out. Video games did not make him climb a tree, and video games did not make him fall. Let’s just feel sorry for the boy and leave the games out. We all know they’re only there because they make for great fearmongering in the media.

  206. sqlrob says:

    Stop being so condescending
    Pot, I’d like you to meet kettle. Have you EVER been anything other than condescending here? You reap what you sow, which is something you should understand given your handle.

    are you for real
    Answer his question. What makes Activision any different?

  207. Amen4u says:

    Attractive, yes. Addicting, not in that way. Every good book, game, movie, should draw you in. That’s the idea of a story,

    Whatever, but if a child is reading the book over and over  and over again, or replaying the movie over and over again then we would be discussing this topic, These things that you are comparing Brandon’d death with is not relative to his situation.

    The debate is " Gaming addiction. Not death by cheerleading.

    Yes, games and such are meant to hook you, get you to play, maybe buy a sequel and some franchise articles but at the very least you’re meant to enjoy it fully. But nobody wants you to get addicted, and they don’t expect you to get so addicted it’s harmful. If you’re a kid, then parents would normally intervene, just like with other kinds of non-drug addictions, or gangs, or whatever.

     What the hect do you think Brandon’s parents were doing. They were interveneing. Just because you don’t agree with the way they tried to handle the situation you are going to hand them dry?

  208. Adamas Draconis says:

    1) They tried it.

    2)Probably someone has but didn’t make the news

    3)Tried it.

    4)Wouldn’t try it. The law prevents it.

    5)Somewhere, someone most likely has tried it.

    6)"We don’t make the news. We just report it."

    7)I think someone has tried that before, but can’t be sure.

    8)That’s just (I would hope) too stupid to try.

    Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

  209. NovaBlack says:

    "And to blame the parents for not protecting him is ridiculous.  He was 15, not 5."

     

    HAHAHA are you arguing with yourself here?

    He was 15, not 5, so the parents cant be responsible for protecting him?

    man this is TOO good to pass up. You just beat yourself in your own argument.

     

    Ill use your own reasining against you.

    "And to blame the Video game manufacturers for not protecting him is ridiculous.  He was 15, not 5."

  210. NovaBlack says:

    ”These companies do what ever it takes to make their products as attractive and addicting as possible, that is how they make money. ”

     

    really?

     

    thats strange because for a huge number of games, that dont have additional paid content after the initial purchase this actually makes no sense.

    I mean once the game is bought, the publisher has the money for the sale, and wont get anything more. And they dont care. They have what they need!

    Explain to me how many games get rushed out full of bugs then?

    Explain to me how many games get pushed out by a publisher half finished to recoup losses?

     

     

  211. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    They’re in with the audies. Click the smiley after the "Remove Link" button.

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  212. Amen4u says:

     

    Congratulations, you now the main purpose of any businessStop being so condescending, I wasn’t born yesterday. You do not know what you are actually debating, you are the moron here. Should Nike pay for rehab for soccer moms who buy too many pumps?  Should Spalding give money to those who play too much sports?.-  are you for real?
    Wait, you think that a child’s parents shouldn’t have to be responsible for their child but yet Activision should?  Yes, I do feel it is a joint responsibility. And it is obvious the companies do as well.
    But that was not my debate; so stop creating arguments ok. My concern was_____ video games can be addicting!!!!!!!. Not what parents should do to raise their children better.
  213. Andrew Eisen says:

    "Andrew, Bennett and Nightwing haven’t blamed his parents for Brandon’s death."

    I didn’t say that they did.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  214. nightwng2000 says:

    And we should hold the gun industry responsible for putting guns in the hands of criminals.

    And we should hold lawmakers responsible when they don’t allow MORE guns out on the street.

    And we should hold the sweets manufacturers and the fast food companies responsible for obesity.

    And we should hold specific religious organizations, if not all religious organizations, responsible for crimes based on bigotry and hate.

    And we should hold land and property owners responsible if some distraught person commits suicide or kills their kids (like throwing them off a bridge) because the land/property owner didn’t take precautions and prevent the person from doing such things.

    And we should hold news media responsible when they report an atrocity and someone unable to control themselves reacts violently, such as beginning or participating in a riot caused by being outraged at what they read or saw in the news.

    And we should hold sports clubs and teams responsible when their fans or their opposing fans get so worked up that they start fights and someone is hurt or killed.

    And we should hold makers of dryers responsible when people put their kids in the dryers because they think "Oh, look, it goes round and round!  It’s gotta be fun!"

    "Look mommy!  Teacher says, every time a bell rings, someone comes up with a new scapegoat to escape responsibility for their own actions!"  :/

    Nightwng2000

    NW2K Software

    Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

  215. Michael Chandra says:

    Attractive, yes. Addicting, not in that way. Every good book, game, movie, should draw you in. That’s the idea of a story, to get the customer involved. Every time I’m hooked on an anime, book, movie, game, tv-series, whatever, I come up with story-ideas that either involve an alternative version because of how my desire for a good ending crosses with events, or are based on it and different to feature my own fantasy. On that matter I think that one day I really should do something with the Sam O. Deus story idea I designed based on Chrono Crusade and a book.

    Does Terry Pratchett have a responsibility to readers that get completely hooked to the books and actually skip school or don’t study just to focus on reading through her books? Does J. K. Rowling have such a responsibility? Feist? David Eddings? God knows I read some of his series 3, 4 times or more. What about Roger Zelazny, whose book Roadmarks I read several times through the years and finally understood at the fifth read, while I read his Amber series at least once a year for quite a while. When I discovered a nice fantasy author, I would in fact go through their books in no-time, staying up late and reading during classes even.

    Or what about Max Payne? When I first saw the trailer I found it awesome from a fanboy’s perspective, I actually watched it ten times a day, downloaded the song, got a wallpaper. Even after seeing the movie I’d still watch the trailer sometimes. What about the anime series I would go through in a few days, skipping classes (yes, at the age of 22) because I wanted to see where the story would go.

    I still have to finish Fushigi Yuugi because my involvement with the story became so great that I had to take a long break after Nuriko’s death, which actually made me cry. That’s how involved the story got me, that I cried and was too upset to continue afterwards. Does that mean the creators of the story, or the anime, have a responsibility towards me? I don’t think so.

    (And that guy who spends nearly six thousand dollars per year on World of Warcraft sure doesn’t think Blizzard owes him for getting him that fanatic.)

    Yes, games and such are meant to hook you, get you to play, maybe buy a sequel and some franchise articles but at the very least you’re meant to enjoy it fully. But nobody wants you to get addicted, and they don’t expect you to get so addicted it’s harmful. If you’re a kid, then parents would normally intervene, just like with other kinds of non-drug addictions, or gangs, or whatever. And as long as you do your schoolwork and keep up other social activities, nothing’s wrong. If you don’t, that’s where school, parents, government, social workers and stuff come in. Of course if you’re an adult, you’re supposed to be smart enough. Though many of us still get hooked or at the level we call addiction, because virtual reality is so much better than reality often.
    I wonder, in this society where people drift apart, perhaps this technological escape we have, to run off into a fantasy world, is changing us, but is it bad or good? I don’t know, I’m stuck in the middle with you, I can’t tell.

  216. jiminycricket says:

     Andrew, Bennett and Nightwing haven’t blamed his parents for Brandon’s death.  They both made excellent points. They are wondering where the parental responsibility was before it got to the point of Brandon missing. If the cause of death is consistent with what the police say it’s a huge case of bad luck and if he didn’t fall out of that tree, we would never know anything because he probably would have went home only to go through more arguements and we would have been none the wiser.

    Dad admitted he didn’t know how much the game meant to Brandon.  When I was parenting it was don’t use the TV as a baby sitter…sounds like they were allowing the XBox to baby sit Brandon since he was 12 on, failed to bring him into Dad’s activities ( he went fishing without him), ignored Brandon’s activities by getting to know what the game was about (many parents play the game with their kids and know the technology) and then when the grades fell because he was skipping school, then they finally paid attention.

    FYI, a child protection advocate was reading the original FB site and said that if the family had been living in the U.S. state where he worked, they would have gotten involved because he was still underage.

  217. Andrew Eisen says:

    "The videogame manufacture does have a responsibility to the millions of consumers that purchase their video games, just as the gambling casinos have a responsibilty to provide help  to the millions of addicts they create."

    I disagree.  I don’t believe game makers (or casinos) have a responsibility beyond providing a safe and attractive product that the consumer wants to pay for.

    That’s not to say they can’t set up programs to help those who take their entertainment choices too far but I don’t feel that’s it’s required of them.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  218. Erik says:

    "These companies do what ever it takes to make their products as  attractive and addicting as possible, that is how they make money."

    Congratulations, you now the main purpose of any buisiness.  But does that mean that these companies have to play nanny to every single moron out there?  Of course not.  That would be absurd.  Should Nike pay for rehab for soccer moms who buy too many pumps?  Should Spalding give money to those who play too much sports?  No and no.  I can see that you are not too big on the personal responsibility.  But its time to grow up.  The government cannot protect you from yourself nor can corporations.  And frankly you shouldn’t want that anyways.

    "And to blame the parents for not protecting him is ridiculous.  He was 15, not 5."

    Wait, you think that a child’s parents shouldn’t have to be responsible for thier child but yet Activision should?  I feel really sorry for YOUR children lady.  Time to stop letting McDonalds and Microsoft raise your kids and take some damn responsibility for yourself.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  219. Amen4u says:

    The videogame manufacture does have a responsibility to the millions of consumers that purchase their video games, just as the gambling casinos have a responsibilty to provide help  to the millions of addicts they create. Are you that much of a moron mister. These companies do what ever it takes to make their products as  attractive and addicting as possible, that is how they make money.

    Have you ever gone into a casino, the lights, the sound, the excitement of the sirens blowing, It gets a person’s adrenaline pumping just walking in. They offer free tickets to concerts, which  by the way, you have to go through the casino to get to the concert.  People loose their homes, family, jobs. They commit suicide.  It is a growing problem.

    Video games are no different. If they were boring, mundane games that no one wanted to play then they wouldn’t be making 8 billion a year on sales.

    And to blame the parents for not protecting him is ridiculous.  He was 15, not 5… and I feel really sorry for your daughter. You will have your share of problems if you keep up your parenting strategies. Good luck! you are in for a rude awakening with your attitude.

  220. Andrew Eisen says:

    Couple points to both you and Bennett:

    -The Crisps did take his console away.  Apparently this wasn’t the first time.  I agree the parents (from media reports at least) focused too much on the symptom (excessive game play) rather than the cause but from what I’ve read, they were actively involved in the boy’s life and trying their best to do the right thing including restricting his game play.  It may have eventually worked too if Brandon hadn’t fallen out of a tree and died.

    -Parents are responsible for protecting their children but you have to admit there are plenty of circumstances where a child’s death is not their fault.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  221. nightwng2000 says:

    I like that "restricting" bit.  Especially since there was a bit of a comment about how they didn’t know about the Parental Controls on the XBox.  Amazing, since Parental Controls were around for centuries.

    It’s called taking the thing away from the child.  Putting it in a more common room (the front room/living room for example) or denying them access to the item all together.

    Wow!  Ain’t the lack of technological need great?!  You can actually have control, even in part, over your child without pushing a button!  :/

    Nightwng2000

    NW2K Software

    Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

  222. Bennett Beeny says:

    Absolutely.  If I was the parent, that X-Box would have been restricted as soon as I knew the kid was staying awake all night with it, or as soon as he missed a day of school.  It’s not like this parenting gig is difficult.  It’s just a matter of giving a measured and effective response when a kid is going off the right track.  It seems to me that these parents initially ignored the problem or reacted way too slowly, then, when the situation went out of control, instead of guiding the kid back to a healthy track they responded in a way that would create a crisis.

  223. nightwng2000 says:

    I go on in other posts about the paths we have to follow.  Imagine Brandon’s life path and his options at the moment of choosing to run away.  Our own preceptions are tainted in the fact that we aren’t him.  He made his choices because of his own preceptions.  From that moment, his path was left to his control.  Everything that led from the moment he chose to run away to the moment of his death, was left to his actions.  Yes, his choices open to him, or the ones he preceived as being open to him, were influenced by everything hat had ever happened to him in the past.  But, between the time of running away and his death, he had more control over his actions than anything or anyone.  I can’t blame his death on his Parents any more than I can blame any searcher for not finding him.

    That being said, they did, and could, have had quite a bit of sway of his path before he ran away.  Their choices in their own life path directly affected him.  And their actions, or inactions, affected his own life path and choices.

    I don’t think I’ve quite equated their actions to neglect.  Maybe in some random post, but I can’t remember doing so.  But certainly, they had the power to affect his life and the path he choose, and that’s a power no Parent should miss out on because there are a great many times when we’re overwhelmed with conflicting exposures on our children.  They had a great deal of opportunity to prevent things from reaching the level they did.  I’m not totally sure that it was a lack of protection as foresight is blind, deaf, and dumb and the potential for running away ma not have been seen.  But, certainly, the potential for things getting worse in the home at each juncture where a problem was seen should have been anticipated and dealt with before it did get worse.  Those were missed oppotunities to gain control.  Which does mean a lack of control by the Parents.  Control that was very much possible.

    Nightwng2000

    NW2K Software

    Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

  224. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    Hey, thanks for showing up, Dennis, this BS was bugging even EZK, and he didn’t get involved last night.

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  225. gamepolitics says:

    Amen4u, I gotta say…

    While I really enjoy seeing a good argument and getting views from non-gamers, I’ve had it with the name calling. This goes for you and anyone else who cares to indulge in that. Everyone is entitled to their view and it doesn’t make them a moron.

    The management.


  226. dobilay says:

    So instead of actually making some kind of rebuttal or at least a response you just call him stupid? Am I the only one who sees the irony in this?

  227. Andrew Eisen says:

    "Why is this one getting national coverage when others do not?"

    Simply because this one has an attractive hook: video game addiction.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  228. mootyslayer says:

    Nightwing’s post makes sense to me. But we will never know the full truth. Its all speculation at this point.

    From the sound of things the parents took away his game system. Brandon probably took off to blow some steam and get away from the parents for awhile.  At some point he climbed up a tree and fell down. He was to far out and to hurt for anyone to find him in time and died. It sucks and I am very sorry he died.

    But as was mentioned above. Why is this one getting national coverage when others do not? We can blame the parents, bullies, Microsoft, the police for next doing things in a certain way or blame video games. But in the end its not always easy raising a child or at this point a teenager who is close to being an adult. He could have just as much been into movies, sports, girls, etc. Everyone is different in how they see and views things.

    Telling Nightwing that he is blind or stupid does not solve anything. He is just pointing out his views and you are pointing out yours. Its sometimes hard to step back and not get angry at others because they see things differently then you or live differently then you. But as humans thats what we have to do.

  229. DeepThorn says:

    I just know my areas which are video games, psychology as well as other sciences including theoretical, ancient societies, and other parts of human history in relation to technology. 

    Just the length of gameplay VS the time and other things it takes to get addicted doesn’t match up, but I would be more than happy to hear your story.  Maybe you will present something that will teach me something new.

    [/gameover]  No more of this stuff.  I just don’t care, the shoutbox was it for me.  You don’t exist to me anymore.


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  230. Amen4u says:

    Certainly Brandon’s parents know their son better than anyone, but they are not mental health experts and there is a very large gray area when dealing with Obsessions between:

    Yes you are right, they are not mental health experts and neither are you. They are parents who’s child was missing over a heated argument about his gaming addiciton.

    If the argument was bout anything else then they would have stated that, ok. But it wasn’t. It was about his bondage with COD4. not reading books, not eating too much candy, not playing too much football.. it was over COD4.

    Some of the arguments here are ridiculous. Knowone is asking to ban video games. Not even the Crips for shit sakes. 

  231. Amen4u says:

    What’s your problem, Deepthorn, are you questioning my potential to game addicition, are you saying that I do not know myself, you are a better judge of my life and potential addiction to games.

    You are right, I am a very obssessed Troll who has nothing better to do than argue with a bunch of know it alls.

  232. DeepThorn says:

    Agreed, I am about done talking to this lady though.  After hearing, addicted to Super Mario, that as pretty much it.  Instant jump to the same grouping at JT to me, and I am starting to think this is only a very obessed troll making things up.


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  233. jiminycricket says:

     That game is rated M for Mature meaning only a 17 years old can purchase it with the accompanyment of an adult. (someone correct me if I’m wrong)

    Why did his parents allow him to purchase this game and pay for his subscriptions if the game was rated mature?  They are the adults, no?  This should never have been blamed on Brandon because it appears to me that the parents were redirecting their own irresponsibility on a young child who needed direction in the first place. Just because a kid begs for something doesn’t mean they should get it.  A sit down chat to explain their concern probably would have been reasonable and acceptable to the child.  Did they just dismiss the gaming concerns that most parents had then?  If a game was rated mature my kid was told I wouldn’t help them buy it.  period.  and there was no back lash.

    The parents have put huge emphasis on his obsession, jumping to conclusions that it was an assumed predator from his online gaming community, repeatedly in the media.  Did they not have any responsibility in this at all in learning about the activities their son was involved in and helping him with his obsession with professionals before this tragedy occurred?

  234. nighstalker160 says:

    With all due respect, you either did not actually read my entire post, or did not understand it.

    I am not disputing that Brandon had an obsession with COD4.  What I am disputing is the parent’s contention (parents who are NOT mental health experts) that COD4 CAUSED his obsessive behavior.

    Brandon certainly was obsessed with COD4.  But his COD4 obsession could easily be a result of something like Obsessive Compulsive Disorder or any other mental disorder.

    Certainly Brandon’s parents know their son better than anyone, but they are not mental health experts and there is a very large gray area when dealing with Obsessions between:

    "Obsession caused by this…" and "this caused by obsessive disorder…"

    In any case, the suggestion that the videogame is bad or evil because Brandon had an obsession (or because some small segment of the population has an obsession) is grossly irresponsible.

    Many children DIE every year playing football…should we ban it?

    Cheerleading is one of the most dangerous activities in existence…paralysis and death occur at an alarming rate…should we ban it?

    You cannot restrict activities or medium based on some tragedies.  Everything is dangerous at the periphery.

  235. Erik says:

    Knowing their son doesn’t mean they are knowledgeable about technology or addiction, as they have proven.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  236. Kincyr says:

    internet gambling mafia ring? what the hell kind of television have they been watching?

    岩「…Where do masochists go when they die?」

  237. Kincyr says:

    from http://www.thestar.com/News/article/521731

    "He left home following a dispute with his parents over the Xbox online war game, Call of Duty 4, which he spent countless hours and days playing over the last 18 months."

    this was October 22, CoD4 didn’t retail until November 2007. The public beta test was announced on August 30, 2007. Call of Duty 4 was 11 months old (14 months counting the beta) at the time of the quote.

    also in the same article, they said he started gaming in 2006, that’s less than three years ago.

    岩「…Where do masochists go when they die?」

  238. Amen4u says:

    Yes they did say that after what they had learned about the gaming world,  from police and the media, after their son disappeared with no TRACE. Fearing that their son may have been abducted by an internet gambling mafia ring, has nothing to do with how well they knew their son. They were being told more and more each day about the potential dangers andd what kind of trouble Brandon might be in.

  239. Amen4u says:

    Yes, they also said he had been for three years, despite the fact that the game had been out at that point for less than a year.

    No They said that Brandon had been playing video games for about three years, they said he bought  COD4 with his own Christmas Money  last year and he begged his father for a subscription to COD4 to play online.

  240. PHOENIXZERO says:

    Yes, they also said he had been for three years, despite the fact that the game had been out at that point for less than a year. There were clearly underlying issues there that they either ignored or failed to address. Given how small he was for his age I can’t help but expect that he was bully bait and what other potential "social" impacts that might have had..

    If he really was playing in an obsessive manner there was clearly some underlying issues there. But of course, everyone (especially those with an agenda) will focus on the symptom and not the cause.

     

     


  241. Erik says:

    The Crisps at one point also stated that they feared that their son may have been abducted by an internet gambling mafia ring.  So really their opinion on anything that runs on electricity at all can pretty much be put into speculation.

     

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  242. mogbert says:

    As for funeral plans, I have the same. Cremation, a bit of a party, no crying.

    And "Always look on the Bright Side of Life" to play. (if you aren’t familiar with it, google it for lyrics).

    I have a poster saying that hanging on my cubical wall right now, but no one here knows Monty Python so they all think it’s a optimistic motivational poster. ;-P

  243. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    Can’t say for sure.

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  244. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    I just PMed Dennis and EZK on the Forums, so this should be dealt with very soon.

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  245. DeepThorn says:

    If you would read the news about people’s death until you couldnt find anymore, you would prolly be so depressed that you would commit suicide.  I understand this guy’s point.  In the larger picture, this is just another person in the world out of the many that die every day.  Even with someone I knew, I felt really bad and really wish it wouldnt have happened, especially since I was going to ask the girl to prom, but I could NOT expect someone who didn’t know her to feel that bad, and wouldn’t ask them too.  When I die, if people are crying about it, I swear my remains will come back to life and kick the living crap out of all of them.

    I have made my wishes known on how I want things to go when I die, and if anyone crys a single tear I would be pissed.  There is no reason to cry because of death.  It happens, it sucks, but everyone has to die.  That is just how the world works.  Instead of crying about it though, you should celebrate the life lived.  If my loved ones dont do that…  I rather them not react at all than cry about it.  What type of bastard wants to strike sadness in people, even in their death.  It should be filled with happiness that they went to a better place if that is what you believe, or celebrate their live if you don’t believe in an afterlife.


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  246. Yuuri says:

    The few news articles I read about the incident said that the shooter thought he was being robbed, not that there were police at the door. Which articles did you read?

  247. Amen4u says:

    Sorry my friend you are wrong, I saw the report in the news an felt equally sad, and you got the story wrong. The guy behind the door with the gun was a criminal and thought it was police.

     

  248. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    "Yet another one of your many personalities coming out- WOW how many do you have and how do you keep track?"

    This is what I was talking about further up, Amen4u.

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  249. Flamespeak says:

    A friend of mine’s child fell and broke his neck while playing at the pool at the local YMCA.  I don’t see the newscrew acting crazy for that or you coming to his aid.

    My brother had a can of gas essentially sponatneously combust on him, again no hoopla and you don’t personally care, because there was no news about it.

    There are literally thousands of TRULY tragic events that happen all the time and they go flying under your radar, but this 15 year-old spazzes out over not getting his way and dies from acting foolish and you think it is so tragic. It is getting a lot of attention and I have to ask ‘Why?’

    On Halloween in the town next to mine, a father took his two sons to a door and knocked on it for trick or treating. What he didn’t know is the guy behind the door thought that the knocks were coming from someone trying to break in. The guy sprayed gunfire into the father and his two sons killing the oldest son and sending the other and the father into the hospital. Why didn’t this get a lot of attention?  Because the media wanted something to grab your focus on video game addiction that’s why.

    http://www.theitem.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081031/ITNEWS01/810319990/0/FRONTPAGE

    That link is to the article about the shooting if think I am lying. A small town paper reported it and then it just disappeared and this is actually a tragic story.

  250. Amen4u says:

    Yet another one of your many personalities coming out- WOW how many do you have and how do you keep track?

  251. Derovius says:

     In the few minutes it took me to write my first post, and indeed this response, several other people have died. Some from natural causes, some not. What makes Brandon’s death all that more significant when compared to theirs? His age, manner of death or alleged connection to socially unacceptable passtimes?

     Humanity has nothing to do with the hypersensitivity of people these days, 100 years ago most children never made it out of childhood due to various diseases and infections. Would they have been so inhuman as to shake their head at this boys stupidity?

     And my death is as inevitable as yours, but I have no plans on purposely expediting it by acting foolish, nor do my loved ones want to compound the chances of it happening by acting with indifference to my safety.

  252. mogbert says:

    I speak nothing of your comments, you disagree with some people, other people disagree with you. In real life I’m non-confrontational, and online I find that I am the same. I was mearly mentioning that you made your opinions based on details which may not be entirely accurate, perhaps some things were exagerated a bit. This doesn’t invalidate your opinion. But perhaps under the circumstances your opinion on these things may not need to be so adamant?

  253. Amen4u says:

    Jimmy

    I have no idea why everyone is asking why not this, and why didn’t they do this, and they should have done this…and what bad parents theymust have been for Brandon to have runaway.

    Until you have walked in a persons shoes, yoiu have no right to judge anything. Parenting is a difficult job. Ther is no right or wrong, each child, and each parent is diiferent. What might work for one family might not work for another.

    The Crisp’s are feeling a terrible loss of thier child right now. To have anyone judge their parnetal abilities is not the issue.

    Brandon was not a problem child, other than his addiction to COD4, and thier concern about his gaming addiction.

    The Crisp’s are not blaming gamers. They had concern that maybe he was lured by a predator online. Since Brandon had not contacted any of his friends from school or the community. Brandon was missing without any trace. what would any parent think.

    The internet can be a very dnagerous place for children. whether it is gaming online, chatting on MSN or any other chat site. Children, and yes some adults have been lured by sexual predators online. And please don’t get into , well the parents should monitor. I know this.. But for what ever reasons we have to trust our children at some point to  make the right decisions. As a parent you can guide and counsel your children to the best of your abilities. If they choose to make a wrong decision then its not the parents fault.

  254. Amen4u says:

    Had you ever met Brandon? Had you spoken to him before? Are you getting this information from anywhere other then Brandon’s family or people that got their information from Brandon’s family?

    No I never have never met Brandon, I do know his mother, and my cousins attend the same school, my relatives go to the same church as the Crisps, and I have very close friends that work with Angelika at the newspaper. I told you right from the start, I have no idea about gaming, clans, how many frienda you can put on your tag list etc… I am going by what I have been told by my husband, who actually spoke to Brandon’s father during the search and what others, closer to the situation have told me..

    My Comments sometimes are a bit heated, only because I feel it is warranted due to some of the unnessecary comments posted. Yes I am angry with some of you, I agree with exbiker 555, that this situation has brought out the worst in many people. Including me.

    Some of the postings here are no doubt to baite others into a real flamewar, as some would call it. These are not opinions as you would put it, they are bashing statements. Statements that make me very angry and protective.

  255. mogbert says:

    Look, I’m not calling you a liar, what I’m saying here is that you are getting your facts from distraught parents. They may have exagerated and made some things seem epidemic that may have only happened once or twice.

    The reason I say this is the number 200 seems to be an exageration. On XBox Live, Friends is a person who you tagged that you would like to play with again, it isn’t just someone you met. It means that their ID is stored on your XBox. The reason I make this distinction with the word Friends is that you can only have 100. It is the maximum allowed by the system.

    Just as the release date with CoD4 being long after his parents say they got it for him, the number of Friends he had can not be correct. This is why we question his obsession. It is entirely likely that the problem wasn’t as bad as they are making it out to be.  Almost all of us here have stayed up late playing a game once or twice in our lives, most game reviewers have also admitted to this. Personally I’ve never skipped school, but my mother was a teacher and I knew I would never get away with it, but I think that a good chunk of the population has at one point or another.

    Had you ever met Brandon? Had you spoken to him before? Are you getting this information from anywhere other then Brandon’s family or people that got their information from Brandon’s family?

    Again, I’m not saying he wasn’t obsessed, I’m just saying that the few times numbers have been called into this, how long he had been playing and how many contacts he had on his XBox, show glaring and obvious exagerations. It is possible that the things that we can’t verify had also been exagerated.

  256. DeepThorn says:

    It takes a lot to join a clan, and you need to read up on online commnuties in video games.  I would flat out say that is absolutely impossible.  I have only been a part of 5 clans, and even if I searched for one, it took a couple weeks to find a good one.  Still out of those 5, i only played with one of them more than once a month at the time.  Granted, you can just randomly sign up to be "part" of a clan randomly, and never interact with most of the, but there is no logic behind that.  I call foul on this play lady.


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  257. jiminycricket says:

    Amen4u

    since you know the family, why didn’t they ask the school counselor to help them?  I had to go to the social worker when my math grades were dropping to D’s from A’s

  258. Derovius says:

    "Yes he was in some clans- over 200"

    In the course of little over a year he has joined and left 200 seperate clans? Thats a new clan every other day, and so rediculous that straight out telling you that you’re lying does not do justice to the magnitude of incorrectness in this statement. May god have mercy on your soul…

    "Played to the point of exhaustion"

    I player some games until I get tired as well, how is indicative of abuse?

    "wouldn’t sit at the table to eat with family to keep playing"

    Been there, done that. Maybe his family are not as interesting the people he was meeting from around the world? I know mine aren’t/weren’t.

    "Was up at three and four in the morning -on a school night- playing."

    So if he was up until 3 or 4 in the morning on the weekend, its alright? Analyze your statement for a moment; breaking sleep cycles by forcing your body to remain awake while your Circadaen rythme is trying to force you to sleep has drastic effects on your health. But in your mind, so long as he is sleeping for school, its alright. Align your interests in his well being before the accusatory finger gets levelled, please.

    "It was only COD4 he was playing. Online."

    You accentuate online as if it were tantemount to him cavorting with deviants. While I won’t argue that there are some strange individuals out there, they are the minority, and to think that playing a game online is somehow worse than playing singleplayer, you are utterly out of touch with technology. Online play is a boon to his socializing, and as I have read other users on GP state, probably what kept his emotional problems in check for this long.

    "He was pretending to go school and then would return home after first period when his parent left for work."

    I skipped class once when I was about his age, the school called my house and got chewed out something fierce. So you’re telling me that he made a habit of skipping class and his parents did nothing to the point that it became a problem? Who truly is at fault in this situation?

    "See First Period and Last period here in our High Schools are to take attendance. If you make first period or Home room as they call it, then you made attendance. You are not counted in each individual class for addentance."

     So his actions were not tripping the final attendance call of the day? For how long? How often were his marks reported to his parents? Not attending class usually shows up rather glaringly on the grade reporting, which in my specific case was atleast 4 times a year.

    "Stopped socializing with friends that didn’t have the game and refuse to do otherthings, like go to movies, play basketball, football, etc.."

     And who is to say that the enjoyment that could have/would have been had at these activities were not found with his gaming? Let us consider another topic in the news, as of late; the film maker who followed through with his fantasy to lure love-hungry men from the internet, posing as an interested female party, and murder them. Maybe going to the movies would have set Brandon down this path? Maybe having him play football or other contact sport would have crippled him for life, or killed him outright (some athletes have dropped deal younger than the age of 20 because their hearts just stop).

     If you want to live in a world of fear mongering and finger pointing, so be it. But to lay the weight of this issue on one aspect of this childs life is foolish.

  259. CK20XX says:

    Those are all classic symptoms of depression there.  I once went through that.  I shunned all other activities for the sake of online text-baed roleplaying.  It finally blew up when my mother cut my computer’s ethernet cable.  I got angrier than I had ever been cause as unhealthy as the obsessive roleplaying was, I made lots of friends during it and it kept me sane.

    Fortunately things simmered down quickly because mom and I both loved each other and didn’t want to hurt each other.  We got through the problem civily and I still roleplay today, just not to the exclusion of everything else.

    ————————-

    "They were retarded hairless pink bunnies, all of them. Except Shigeru Myamoto and… well, the good ones were just too /rare/ to be worth bothering about." – Mason Hornblower on the extinction of the human race

  260. Danath says:

    I am actually responding to Shadow at this point and not to your reply, sorry for the misunderstanding as its in the same response comment, on how he says this is becoming a flame war.

  261. Amen4u says:

    Danath

    I am going by much more than that ok. I am not just going on the articles.

    I do not believe everything that the news reports, other than maybe the Newspaper that Angelika works for.

    I live in the community, my husband was involved in the search, and spoke to Steve Crisp about this.

    I have relatives that go to the same school that Brandon attended.

    I have relatives that belong to the same church as the Crisp family.

    I have close friends that work with Angelika,

    I worked for the same company Angelika works for,( A sister Paper) and was aquaintences with her.

     

     

     

  262. Danath says:

    Actually I didnt, I pointed out how the proof is not exactly from a reliable source, if they have better proof end of that, but the stuff presented here is not conclusive.

  263. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    You asked for proof. I simply said it was irrelevant as the debate ended right there before it could escalate into a Flame War.

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  264. Danath says:

    I have no questions, I am criticizing other people in the comments who post comments who think they are stating fact, I am pointing out that they dont know the many details and thus cannot make the judgements they are and its irritating that people think they are super sleuths without having been involved in any way other than reading a few articles about him going missing.

  265. Amen4u says:

    My Proof

    Yes he was in some clans- over 200

    Played to the point of exhaustion

    wouldn’t sit at the table to eat with family to keep playing

    Was up at three and four in the morning -on a school night- playing.

    It was only COD4 he was playing. Online.

    He was pretending to go school and then would return home after first period when his parent left for work.

    See First Period and Last period here in our High Schools are to take attendance. If you make first period or Home room as they call it, then you made attendance. You are not counted in each individual class for addentance.

    Stopped socializing with friends that didn’t have the game and refuse to do otherthings, like go to movies, play basketball, football, etc..

     

     

  266. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    Danath and Matt: Your questions cannot be answered.

    Amen4u: Please stop saying things like that. It gets annoying and it starts flame wars, which we are trying to avoid. I’m not being mean, just trying to keep us all out of trouble.

    If this happens again, I will take steps to get Dennis and/or EZK involved to settle it.

    *sigh*

    EDIT: Dang, this is annoying. I’m hoping I won’t have to tell Dennis or EZK about this. I hope we can handle it.

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  267. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    Seconded.

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  268. Andrew Eisen says:

    Loosely translated: because something followed an event, it was caused by that event.

    It’s a logical fallacy.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  269. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    Um… Can you translate the Latin for us please?

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  270. Andrew Eisen says:

    "He would never have been in that tree if his parents were looking after him properly."

    Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

    "…if a kid dies before 18, the parents have failed in their primary job of keeping their kid safe."

    Nonsense.  Miscarriages, car accidents, and disease can all be completely outside a parent’s control.  If a child dies in one of those school massacres, is it the parents’ fault for not keeping him/her safe?  Of course not.

    Brandon was 15.  He went out to blow off some steam.  He fell out of a tree and died.  Whether you agree with how Brandon’s parents handled his excessive game play is immaterial.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  271. Bennett Beeny says:

    He would never have been in that tree if his parents were looking after him properly.  If it was my daughter, if it got to the point where she walked out the door (which it wouldn’t), I would have gone with her.

    Look, it’s as simple as this – if a kid dies before 18, the parents have failed in their primary job of keeping their kid safe.

  272. Andrew Eisen says:

    "…at what point do we stand back from all of this and indifferently chalk this up to natural selection?"

    At whatever point we as individuals feel it’s appropriate.  If you truly feel that Brandon’s inability to correctly calculate how much weight a particular tree branch would support is reason enough for your indifference to his death, then that’s the point for you.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  273. Derovius says:

     Indeed he did. He failed to learn or act with restraint, thus encouraging his own punishment. In response to his punishment, he failed to understand the underlying reasoning of his parents belated attempts to help him.

     As terrible as I feel using this word, at what point do we stand back from all of this and indifferently chalk this up to natural selection? Failure to cope with ones environment ending in termination of group membership.

  274. Austin_Lewis says:

    That was my point.  I’m not saying its a bad idea, but I don’t think that Mr. And Mrs. Crisp would be happy that gamers started a fund in their child’s name, especially not after they spent so much time blaming us for his ‘kidnapping’. 

    At this point, I wouldn’t even ask Microsoft.  If those ungrateful parents are really sueing Microsoft, I don’t think anyone should want to give them money for any charity fund.

  275. Zevorick says:

    But he’s right. Starting a charity in the name of someone without Parental Authority is not only insensitive, but it may go against the wishes of their parents in the first place. It may be a wonderful gesture, but really… go through the proper channels and consult the people most affected by this first.

  276. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    Not now, please, we have a troll to whip.

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  277. Austin_Lewis says:

    How is that shooting it down?  I said get the parents’ permission first.  That’s not shooting it down, that’s telling you where to start.

    Hell, if you recall, I even suggested you ask Microsoft about making some custom downloadable content and donating part of the proceeds.

  278. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    All you did in that post was explain HOW you shot it down.

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  279. Austin_Lewis says:

    Actually jackass, what I said was GET THE PARENT’S PERMISSION BEFORE YOU MAKE A CHARITY IN THE CHILD’S NAME. 

  280. Bennett Beeny says:

    No one would have made asinine comments if the parents hadn’t gone right ahead and blamed gaming in the first place.  What the parents did was asinine, so it’s kinda apt that they got some asinine responses.

  281. Chuma says:

    I think Zero Dash is probably right at this point in time at least.  Liz Wooleys actions have shown that sometimes people don’t want to either take responsibility for their actions/inaction or to understand that sometimes tragedy strikes without rhyme or reason.  Maybe when the pain isn’t so fresh, someone can approach them with the idea for setting up a fund, although any "fund against gaming addiction" won’t go down well with the community, so I would suggest a charity of some note in his name.

    I’ve kept pretty quiet on this while the facts were coming out.  The usual crowds some out and say "I don’t care" or worse rather than saying nothing and thankfully most are more reasoned.  It’s a pity this happened but the whole gaming angle has made what is a tragic accident a little sour in the gaming community as the blame was put there by media before any facts were out.  I don’t blame the parents for highlighting us; they are just lashing out and thinking of anything that could have happened to find their son.  What is almost certainly true is that they wouldn’t have pointed at gaming at all if it wasn’t for the negative press; it would have just been "he left over an argument because he was being lazy".  I remember when if people went missing, it wasn’t automatically assumed it was abduction from an internet predator if they had ever been near a computer.  Sadly the press hasn’t helped in that regard and we continue to be led down the same old garden path.

  282. Erik says:

    I find it amusing that people like you think that the only way to show compassion is to leap onto that tired old scapegoat along with you.  I also find it amusing that in our society that somehow blaming people for their decisions has become a taboo.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  283. Derovius says:

    "I’ll bet you they are angrier with themselves and feeling guiltier about their decisions in this entire matter than you or any of us realize."

    I’m sure they are, but elevated emotional statements blurs the line between rational thought and dillusion. They will be reaching out to grasp onto something to support some dillusion, be it positive or negative. I.E. that Brandon was not found deceased, or that his injuries were not from falling from a tree, etc. No mental health professional would allow them to think along these lines, and would attempt to correct their manner of thinking on the matter. How does this differ from we, as a gaming community, attempting the same?

    "My sincere and compassionate concern is when they are settled down, and part way through the grieving process of their son/brother, they will happen upon all these sites, and find all the cruel and heartless things that have been written about their son and their parenting skills. What a devastating thing this will be. As we all know or may not know there are over 118,000 hits referring to "Brandon Crisp" and I have read some pretty horrific and heartless comments posted on many of these sites."

    Welcome to the internet, it allows us access to the true nature of our species and where behaviour meets thought with no risk of reprocussions. More to the point, while Brandon was special to his parents, friends and family, it is unreasonable to expect 100% empathy from everyone. As I’ve said before, several other people have died during the course of each individual posting, but no one gives them any pause or consideration. If you are able to offer an explanation as to how Brandon is/was better than these nameless people, I will of course reconsider my position of indifference.

  284. Amen4u says:

     

    I’ll bet you they are angrier with themselves and feeling guiltier about their decisions in this entire matter than you or any of us realize.
     
    My sincere and compassionate concern is when they are settled down, and part way through the grieving process of their son/brother, they will happen upon all these sites, and find all the cruel and heartless things that have been written about their son and their parenting skills. What a devastating thing this will be. As we all know or may not know there are over 118,000 hits referring to "Brandon Crisp" and I have read some pretty horrific and heartless comments posted on many of these sites.
    The most devastating is face book; I almost vomited when I read some of the things posted there. 
     
  285. Andrew Eisen says:

    "Brandon’s lack of self control, and moreover, his parents failure to keep him in line have resulted in his death."

    Actually, he fell out of a tree.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  286. Amen4u says:

     

    Someone want to explain to me why we are feeling sorry for this kid?

    Because he is dead, and some of us are Human.

    I would hope someone would feel sorry for you too if you were dead.

  287. Derovius says:

     Someone want to explain to me why we are feeling sorry for this kid? I’ve played video games since the moment I could reach the keyboard, and have been deprived of them as a means of punishment by my parents on several occasions over the course of my life. Never, and I mean NEVER, have I thought about running away to get back at my parents.

     15 years old is not a child, I personally was working my first job at 15 and learning how to manage my money; when we cease to expect maturity from these children, they think that they can get away with anything. Brandon’s lack of self control, and moreover, his parents failure to keep him in line have resulted in his death. To feel sorry for him is to continue this cycle of stupidity where people are not accountable for their actions.

     All off this talk about how he didn’t know better, or that being deprived of a game made him act is bullcrap. He decided to overindulge himself and bring down the ire of his parents. He decided to ignore their attempts to keep him in-line by taking back his confiscated video game. Etc., etc., ad nausem.

     And because people will think I’m trolling, I’m a 3rd year Mechanical Engineering student whose played video games for as long as I can remember, and continue to do so. I may not socialize in the traditional sense of the word as much as my contemporaries, but I attribute this more to (personally) the advancement of communication than some underlying psychological flaw/deviance or some endorphin fuelled behaviour induced addiction.

  288. Bennett Beeny says:

    Amen.  When it comes down to it, if a kid dies, the parents failed to protect him.  The single most important job of a parent is to protect his/her child.  It’s no one else’s job – it’s certainly not the job of videogame manufacturers.  When it comes down to it, videogames didn’t let that kid out of his house and leave him to his fate.  His parents did that.

    As for the parents trusting their kid to do the right thing, what are they, crazy?  He’s 15.  Hell, I don’t trust my 5 year-old to do the right thing, and a 15 year-old is simply a more devious 5 year-old with hormonal imbalances.  In a situation where kids have a choice of doing the right thing or getting away with doing the wrong thing, 90% of the time kids will do what they can get away with.  That’s why they need parents.  Heck, if my daughter does something wrong, she gets immediate negative repercussions.  I don’t wait months to see if she’ll come around – that’s a recipe for failure

  289. nightwng2000 says:

    Ok, we’ve done the possibilities of why he went up the tree.  Not sure how bullies were involved.  But hiding from those he preceived as maybe looking for him to take him back home, even if people he saw weren’t looking for him, was possible, among the other probabilities.

    But, yeat again, we get shoved back into the why he ran away bit by someone who wants to claim they don’t want to debate but they want to give their opinion and no one else’s matters.  That’s usually a sign of a weak argument since you want only YOUR opinion heard and no one else’s.

    So, since it’s ok to hear the "blame the game" opinion, I’ll fire back with "The Parents are to blame for his RUNNING AWAY" (and none of that deceit claiming I said "The Parents are to blame for his death").

    As has already been posted several times by the very person arguing that it was a games addiction, there were a large number of signs, quite a list in fact, that things were getting out of control (whether it was the equivilant of "a book you can’t put down", an obsession, or an addiction).  Were ALL of these signs apparent over a single 24 hour period and the day before there was NOTHING wrong?  Nope.  He missed at least one night of sleep.  So was it only in a 48 hour period?  Nope.  He bought the game with his "Christmas money".  Ok, 11 or so months ago, at least, assuming it was only last Christmas.  He played single player for awhile before playing online.  Let’s be conservative and cut it to 6 months online.  Hey, let’s even be more conservative.  He was skipping school.  Let’s cut it to just THIS school year.  Don’t know the exact date of school starting there.  Here, it’s just before the start of September.  Ok, so between the start of school and the day he ran away, 1 1/2 months.

    Seems pretty fair to say that the very noticeable signs of skipping school, lack of offline socializing, lack of eating and sleeping, and bad attitudes to others was beginning to build up over a mere 1 1/2 month period.  That’s a very short period of time in comparison to saying they had 6 months, 11 months, or even a year and a half to witness his behavioral problems and ignored them, huh?

    So, for 1 1/2 months, each of these events, totally recognized by the Parents, hard to miss skipping school and they already admitted they knew about his lack of sleeping. 

    Now, go out and ask your experts on Parenting (let’s even ignore the folks who have life experience and just think that ONLY the people with psychology degrees and counseling licenses know about Parenting and that everyone else is incompetant).  Ask them what to do when a child acts up even ONCE.  Now, ask them what you should do when the child acts up, centering around ANYTHING acts up 5 times.  10 times.  A whole month worth of times.

    Parent:  "I’m at my wits end!  Over the last month, my child has skipped sleeping 5 times to play the game/watch a TV show/reading a book/playing with their toy train, and he just won’t stop!  He skipped school 3 time this month.  He’s had a bad attitude towards us and his friends, those he even associates with anymore.  He even misses several meals!  We’re at our wits end!"

    Counselor: "And what did you do the very first time he misbehaved?"

    Parent:  "We ignored it.  We thought it wouldn’t happen again and we trusted him."

    Counselor:  "Ok, so what did you do the second time?"

    Parent: "We told him he needed to behave.  To be a good boy."

    Counselor:  "Ok, so what happened when the third time happened?"

    Parent:  "We did the same thing as the second time."

    Counselor:  "Ok, so when did you change your approach?"

    Parent:  "We hoped it was a phase, so we waited a week.  Then we threatened to take the thing away from him.  Ground him from it.  You know."

    Counselor:  "And did he misbehave again?"

    Parent:  "Yes, and we grounded him once… or twice… or… well, he kept misbehaving and we kept grounding him but it didn’t seem to work."

    Counselor:  "I see, and did you try upping the ante?"

    Parent:  "What do you mena?"

    Counselor:  "Like, taking the item out of his room so he can’t use it at night.  Taking the item away, and giving it to him only for a limited period of time, control when he has access to it since he apparently can’t?  That sort of thing."

    Parent:  "Why would we do that?  Shouldn’t he be able to control himself?  Maybe it’s an addiction!  OMG!  My child is addicted to it!"

    Counselor:  "Maybe, but this is an addiction you can control.  It’s in your home.  In fact, you could have had more control over the situation much sooner…"

    Parent:  "No No!  It’s an addiction!  We can’t control addiction!  They are like kids going on the street and buying drugs!  We can’t control this!  We need help!  We nee…"

    Counselor:  "You need to get control over your child.  You’re his Parent.  The item is in your home and you can…"

    Parent:  "No no!  It’s an addiction!  Our child is under the influence of the item!  There’s nothing we can do!  OMG!"

    Counselor:  :: sigh ::

     

    If your kid eats sweets all day long for weeks, is it the candy’s fault?

    If you offer your teen a sip of alcohol every 6 months or so for special occasions and they openly show signs of liking it and drinking more and more, especially from your own unlocked or even locked liquor cabinet, is it the alcohol’s fault or yours (not for giving them a sip but for letting them continue to have access to your own liquor)?

    If you notice they aren’t doing their homework and doing anything else and they come home with you around every day and more and more they don’t do their homework and you don’t make them, is it the school’s fault or yours?

    There are MANY situations where a Parent has far more control over their child than they want to take responsibility for.  No, you can’t be around them 24/7.  You can’t control every waking moment of their lives.

    But when you DO have the power to control events, USE IT!

    So a local school is going to have talks about gaming addiction, huh?  Are they also going to have classes on how to BE a Parent?  Ya know what this amounts to?  Having Gun advocates/Gun control advocates holding classes after a school shooting.  Everyone LOVES to get in their agenda.  HEY!  There’s an idea!  So, it was game addiction and they need classes on how to identify games as evil drugs?  How about an agenda driven class on MODERATION?  You want to say that people who play video games only care about games?  Fine, let’s hold classes on how kids need to learn moderation.  Oh, wait, nobody is dong that, any more than they are suggesting Parent classes.

    No, this isn’t sarcasm.  It’s a reality check.  The Parents don’t want to be held responsible for their actions and others of similar beliefs are aiding in that.  Next thing you know, people will be suing car companies because they put their 3 year old kid in the front seat of their car without even buckling the kid up and the kid is hurt for whatever reason.

    You want to call it insensitive of me?  So what?  It was insensitive of the Parents to take NO responsibility for their own actions or lack thereof.

    Nightwng2000

    NW2K Software

    Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

  290. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    Look further down at what you said about Derovius’ personality.

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  291. Amen4u says:

    Amen4u: Please stop saying things like that. It gets annoying and it starts flame wars, which we are trying to avoid. I’m not being mean, just trying to keep us all out of trouble.

    What is it that I am saying????????

  292. Andrew Eisen says:

    I think the likelihood of bullies chasing him up that tree decreases proportionally to how far it is from town.  If it’s three km out in the middle of nowhere then the odds of him meeting a pack of bullies or being chased that far seem to be really, reall low.

    I would not be surprised to learn that Brandon was bullied over his size and used CoD4 as a way to deal with that.  As you said though, this is just pure speculation.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  293. J.Alpha.Gamma says:

    How about a bunch of kids hell-bent on kicking his ass?

    He was a small kid, so there were probably some bullies at school who thought it’d be fun to pick on him. Most kids trying to make themselves look tough by picking on kids they think are too small and weak to fight back. Unfortunately, Brandon would’ve fit that description perfectly, making him his school’s Gus Griswald.*

    That would probably explain why he was logging so much time on Xbox LIVE in the first place. He wasn’t addicted, he was trying to escape the school bullies who harassed him every day. It’d also explain why he’d steal from his parents; he was using the money to appease the bullies threatening to beat him up if he didn’t pay them.

    Based on the evidence presented in the case, and a little knowledge of teenage life, the bully theory sounds pretty likely. However, like anything else said here, this is pure speculation; we won’t know for sure what happened until we get more information from the authorities.

     

    * For those unfamiliar with the Recess cartoon, Gus was the one who was the smallest and weakest of the show’s main gang, making him a frequent target for bullies. Many episodes centered around him involved his friends protecting him from bullies, or stopping him from taking revenge on a bully.

  294. jiminycricket says:

    He was in the bush, not in the city…I don’t think there were other kids around to bully him in the bush 

    it was most likely a wild animal or he got the idea to sleep in a tree from one of those survivor man shows it was reported he watched

  295. jiminycricket says:

     Yes, there are bears, wolves and cougars…and of course dear but they won’t hurt you unless it’s a buck in rutt, but that’s spring time.  I’ve seen bears about a half hour north of there.  He could have climbed to get away from a bear.  But it was getting late – he was last spotted about 6ish and it started getting dark around 7:30 pm at that time of the month.  He may have used the tree to take shelter – maybe there was an old hunters treehouse that wasn’t secure.  Or he could have climbed with the intention of jumping off or something else?  In any case the police will figure that out…

  296. Neeneko says:

    Maybe if it was a bear or other wild animal.. but people?

    If someone is chasing a kid, who in the world is going to be stopped by them going up a tree.  For that matter, who in the world is going to try to go up a tree to get away from people who are chasing him?  Stopping your horizonal movement to go vertial where you are easier to see and have no where to go, and going slower?

  297. Andrew Eisen says:


    Yes.

    Please note that there are a lot of mitigating factors here such as the age of these hypothetical bullies, their true intent, if they had weapons, etc.

    For example, if Brandon was chased by a gang of knife-toting hoodlums hell-bent on kicking his ass, then yes, you could make a case.

    However, if it was just a bunch of kids horsing around and picking on someone smaller then them, I doubt you’d get much to stick.

     

    Andrew Eisen

     

  298. Cecil475 says:

    Or, maybe he climbed the tree becuase he was bored and wanted to climb it?

     – Warren Lewis


    R.i.P GamePolitics 2005-2016

  299. GRIZZAM PRIME says:

    If bullies attacked him and forced him up the tree, could they be legally responsible for his death?

    -Remember kids, personal responsibility is for losers! -The Buck Stops Here. -Thou Shall Not Teamkill, Asshole.

  300. Andrew Eisen says:

    Yep, could have been several different things that made him climb the tree.  I’m not debating that.

    Animal?  I think it’s mostly deer in that area but I don’t know.

    Getting his bearings?  Possible, but he wasn’t very far from home so I’d assume he knew the area pretty well.

    Spending the night in the tree?  Doubt it but you never know.

    Chased up by bullies?  Could happen.  Small kid after all.

    Out blowing off steam and just decided to climb a tree for the hell of it?  Seems the most likely to me as tree climbing doesn’t require a playful or leisurely mood.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  301. nightwng2000 says:

    I’ve already said that I didn’t blame his Parents for his death, only for having let the situation get so far out of control that he felt the need to run away. 

    However, it teally doesn’t make sense to attach Brandon being in a playing or leisurely mood when climbing a tree.  It depends on his mood and motive.  Perhaps he was afraid of an animal.  What animals were the hunters hunting or what animals are traditionally hunted at that time?  were they dangerous animals?  Are there dangerous animals in that area?  Then again, it may be that he heard someone and climbed to hide and fell without being noticed.  He may have even tried to sleep in the tree for safety and fell out of the tree.  Yeah, it sounds weird saying sleeping in a tree for safety as one would think you would fall out but he may easily have thought he was securly in the tree.  Or, he may have climbed the tree for a better view of the area.  We may never know.  But doing it for the fun of it doesn’t seem like what the situation would fill.

    Nightwng2000

    NW2K Software

    Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

  302. DeepThorn says:

     

    If the police see anything that indecated that he was trying to hurry up the tree, like how the bark is shifted from climbing up it, any foot prints, or anything else, I am sure we will hear about it.  Still, CoD4 is in the clear, a microscopic victory that is meaningless now in relation to what unluckily happened.

    Nido Web Flash Tutorials AS2 and AS3 Tutorials for anyone interested.
    Financial Calculator for anyone interested in seeing the basic run

  303. Andrew Eisen says:

    Kids do climb trees.  It’s fun.  There’s not much more to it then that.  It just struck me as rather odd that the newspaper and several commenters were so fixated on "what might have driven [him] to climb the tree" as if climbing a tree were that unusual of an activity.

    Did I say the investigation should be halted?  No.  It’s possible that he was chased up the tree by some neighborhood bullies.  He was a very small 15-year-old after all.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  304. NovaBlack says:

    this is really tragic.. but i have to say i am relieved that at least brandon wasnt abducted and subjected to a prolonged period of abuse.

    Still awful though. I hope that he didnt suffer, its just a sickening thought that he may have been laying there whilst people were busy wasting time talking about xboxes and game addiction etc.

    Oh and i was wrong about his parents,

    I apologise

     

     

  305. josh davis avid gamer says:

    awww thats sad, I was kinda hoping he was alive and ok… may he rest in peace and my sympathies go to the family of the boy, I just hope no game crazed ex lawyer dont use this boys death for his crusade.

  306. Amen4u says:

    The Crisps knew their son better than anyone else on the thread, If they say that there son had an obbession with COD4 and this is why they were having trouble,  and the reason why he ran away, then I my friend would never ever ever argue that point.

    My Goodness I do not fixate on things, well that is to be determined about my constant postings here, but I totally stay away from playing games because I got addicted to playing games. I got addicted to playing Super Mario once.

    And yes that would give away my age LOL

     

  307. nighstalker160 says:

    Assuming the reports we have heard about Brandon’s level of playing is accurate, then yes he was engaging in obsessive behavior.

    But was this behavior caused by the video-game?  We’ll never know.  My brother has a disorder that causes him to obsess over certain things.  In his life these have included, law sprinklers, videogames, certain music bands, television shows (not TV in general, but particular shows), even the RECORDING of shows (he’ll never watch them, just record them obsessively).

    It is entirely possible that Brandon had some form of obsessive-compulsive disorder and the object of his obsession was COD4.  But the videogame does not appear to have CAUSED that obsession.

    There is a very fine, and difficult to determine, line between sympton and cause when you are talking about obsessive behavior.  It can be virtually impossible to determine whether the game actually caused to obsession or whether it was just the object of fixation of an existing neurological disorder.

    It is entirely possible that Brandon would have fixated on something else in due time.  It is very possible he would have eventually moved on to another fixation.  Sadly, tragically, we will probable never know.

    The bottom line is that a young man is dead under tragic circumstances.  Speculating on his mental health, which no one here really knows anything about, is not going to help matters.

    Was Brandon obsessed?  It appears so.  Did COD4 cause that obsession?  I have serious doubts.

    But ultimately, Brandon is dead…we should all focus on that for a moment.

    RIP

  308. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    Me and PHX trying to keep Flame Wars from breaking out. 

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  309. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    Austin already shot the charity option down. Then again, he is an asshole, so let’s get cracking.

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  310. Zerodash says:

    The parents and family have expressed they are very angry at games and gamers (due to some assinine comments made by a few bad eggs here and on Kotaku).  I doubt they are interested in anything the so-called "gaming community" can do to reach out. 

    This whole thing is likely to get even uglier in the months to come.  The family wants a scapegoat and the mainstream press loves to vilify us enough as it is.  We are going to be depicted as even bigger, more dangerous "losers" because of this.  As gamers get defensive and react (some in not-so-nice ways), the family will get even more pissed off.

    The time for reaching out has passed.  I say we just shut up and let them rant and blame games and gamers and get it out of their system.

    Had they not been so ready to find a scapegoat, I’m sure a gamer community charity fund would have been quite likely.  Now there is too much bad blood.

  311. magic_taco says:

    Poor kid,  May Bradon Crisp rest in peace.

    Im sorry for the family and their loss.

    Is there something we can do here to show we care?

    Like creating a charity fund or something?

  312. Danath says:

    I have no problems with the parents, but I think perhapse the HUGE focus that was put on videogames by itself may have slowed these things down, and I find the comments about his obsessive behavior highly amusing, he is a child, children are not known to do things in moderation, kids at home, you have a few choices, watch tv, read a book, play a game, or talk on the phone.

    Some people dont care about interacting with people, doesnt necessarily mean obsession, and parents are hardly the objective people to ask about it.

    I feel sorry for what happened, it truly is tragic, but people need to stop saying silly things and thinking they are fact, far too much of people saying whatever they want as an explanation for what happened (especially the people earlier being befuddled about why a kid would climb a tree). There is a reason professionals do this after all, and accidents do happen, if it wasnt, then I hope they find out what did.

  313. Amen4u says:

    Honestly I do not think Brandon was out enjoying the great outdoors, You know I must say this again, He was Distraught.

  314. MrKlorox says:

    Would this be considered an ironic death? I used to be told all the time that I should stop playing video games and instead go climb trees and enjoy the outdoors "like kids are supposed to."

    Then again there’s probably gonna be somebody with the opposite POV: that if he would have played less videogames when younger, he would have more outdoorsman experience to rely on.

    Such a poor circumstance.

  315. Neeneko says:

    More likly : his father was right in that he wasn’t really running away, just blowing off some steam and was intending to head back home, decided to climb a tree because it burns energy and is fun.. then fell.

    So it’s likly the parents were, in fact, correct in their original idea that he wasn’t serious about runing away and actually was just going out in a huff.

  316. nighstalker160 says:

    That’s really sad, I wonder what he was doing in a tree and how long he was missing before he fell.  It almost sounds like he might have been trying to climb to maybe get bearings or maybe escape an animal or something.  Very sad.

  317. SeanB says:

    yeah, cause people arn’t chased up trees, are they? No chance he was chased, tried to clime a tree to get away, and fell. Then instead of summoning medical attention, those responsible just walked away.

    No reason for an investigation guys, kids just climb trees. Nothing to see here, Andrew Eisen has it all figured out!

  318. Andrew Eisen says:

    "Goodbrand said the investigation into Crisp’s death will now try to piece together a timeline to determine what might have driven the adolescent to climb the tree."

    Folks, he was 15.  15-year-olds climb trees.  It’s what they do.  Hell, I still climb trees when I can get away with it.

    That said, while the new info doesn’t confirm it, I’m assuming he died very soon after he left home.  At least we can comfortably say CoD4 and gaming had nothing to do with his death.  It was just an accident that could have happened whether he left the house in a huff that afternoon or not.

    EDIT: And on that note, his parents aren’t responsible for this either.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  319. PHX Corp says:

    May Brandon Crisp Forever rest in Peace

    Everyone Else(except dennis and EZK): Don’t go overboard like last time otherwise EZK and Dennis will ban you(Just a warning and I’m not impersonateing them)

  320. Adamas Draconis says:

    May he rest is the lands of forever summer.

     

    EDIT: And PLEASE no trouble here!

    Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

  321. GRIZZAM PRIME says:

    I wonder why he was up in that tree. Maybe he thought there was food or something? Perhaps he was trying to get a view of his surroundings.

     

     

  322. Rodrigo Ybáñez García says:

    I don´t know what to think. In some way, I´m glad this didn´t take some dark twist like he was kidnapped or even killed by his own family (even accidentaly).

    At least he wasn´t killed by anyone, but his dead was really senseless, and all for a stupid family discussion. Rest in peace.

    The cynical side of videogames (spanish only): http://thelostlevel.blogspot.com/ My DeviantArt Page (aka DeviantCensorship): http://www.darkknightstrikes.deviantart.com/

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