Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game Displays

November 24, 2008 -

An anti-violence group in Winnipeg gave poor marks to Wal-Mart and Toys'R'Us after conducting "inspections" of local retailers yesterday. Violent video games are among the items that concern Project Peacemakers.

Spokesperson Wendy Kroeker told the Winnipeg Sun:

The kind of toy we're trying to encourage here are those that build a child's creativity, a sense of collaboration and skills of co-operation.

 

With [video games], you don't determine the level of violence of your interaction -- the game determines the violence for you... It's not only that they're engaged in violence, it's violence directed against specific ethnicities ... and violence against women.

By way of example, Kroeker mentioned the Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto game series. The group's website explains their retail inspection process:

Our goal... is to raise awareness about the levels of violence in children’s toys and games and to call on retailers, government and the wider community to take steps to limit this violence... These are the kinds of things we were looking for:

  • Whether in-store displays promoted violent toys

  • Whether they sold violent and militarized toys, and particularly if they were at eye-level for young children

  • Whether toy guns were sold and how realistic they were

  • Whether violent electronic games were sold, how they were displayed.


Comments

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

I'd just ask them. So why do we call "Personal stmulation devices" toys?

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

You know what's funny here? These people plagarized thier little catchphrase "Violence is Not Child's Play" from another organization that's been inactive for 4 years

www.lionlamb.org

These people are not only out of touch and ignorant but they can't even come up with thier own catch phrase.

There is so muc wrong with this, I don't know even where to begin. First off both of those games are rated M for Mature for players 17 and over. Furthermore Wal Mart and Toys R US are known to have some of the strictest policies regarding the sale of M-rated games. Toys R US I think was the first retailer to check ID for the sale of mature titles. It is completely unfair, pompous, and ignorant to attack these retailers when they make sure that only adults are buying these titles. I remember when I bought Quake 2 and Resident Evil 2 for the N64 at Toys R US, my mom had to come with me for both sales. Second of all these games are not marketed at 6 years old, at the very the most they are marketed at teens and adults and up to the parents to decide whether thier kids should be allowed to play it. Third most game consoles have parental controls on them, so if you know how to use those then kids buying violent games shouldn't even be an issue. Fourth these people should have hypocrite stamped on thier head if they played cowboys and indians or cops and robbers or watched westerns when they where kids. I also suggest these idiots read "Killing Monsters" by Henry Jenkins which shows how violent entertainment is actually good for kids and helps empower then and overcome thier fears. Thier whole web site wreaks of far-left ignorance that human beings are perfect and that we can all sing and hold hands and everything will be fine. Another thing that I found insulting is how the singled out Call of Duty, a game that depicts history. Call of Duty is a recreation of the sacrifice and heroism durring WWII and it is downright insulting to all of those who died in that war to single that game out and accuse it of corrupting our kids. If I had a young child, I would buy them that game and use it to discuss WWII with them and teach them history. Call of Duty is a game that can spark discussion and interest in history. Why they didn't single out Condemned 2 or Saints Row 2, I will never know since those games while fun have much more morally questionable violence in them then Call of Duty does. These kinds of people are why I despise modern liberalism and the far-left.

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

http://www.myspace.com/hermoinefan_420 (and boom goes the dynamite)

 

 

*FacePalm*.......

 

 

I actully have been sick of this whole "think of the children" bull for a long time and i still have to say that the late great george carlin said it best in his "you are all diseased" show..."what about the children,Help the children,Save the children, You know what i say...F*** the Children..."

 

and thats exactly how i feel about it..If you have 5 year old little timmy who goes with you to toys r us and sees cod world at war or gta 4 and he wants it then you be the parent and grow a damn set of B**** and tell him NO!....so what he cries about it..Big Freaking Deal..Let the damn kids learn at an early age that Life sucks get a helmet..Enough of this "children are precious" crap..I'm sick and tired of it a lot of people are sick and tired of it..Games are for adults now and thats the end of it plain and simple..You want a game system where you can buy them games that arent violent and evil...Go with Nintendo..Given there are a few m rated games but the same thing..DONT BUY THEM!!....

 

Brain dead idiots

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

Diffrent day...

Diffrent wacthdog group...

Same bullshit...

 - Warren Lewis

Consumer responsibility is just as important as Corporate responsibility. So, be responsible consumers.

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

just.. what?

 

"The kind of toy we're trying to encourage here are those that build a child's creativity, a sense of collaboration and skills of co-operation."

um... so lets take a game like halo 3

creative: yes. (alien planets, races, sci-fi setting etc). (i actually used to enjoy creative writing a lot more after i played games filled with amazing ideas)

collaboration and skills of cooperation: yes. But these people ignore the fact that gaming is majoritively social these days. I mean forget about the fact you cooperate with headsets with people from around the world, working together as a team.

 

With [video games], you don't determine the level of violence of your interaction -- the game determines the violence for you...

what? I thought that the whole argument last week against video games was that the player chooses to determine the level of the reaction.. isnt that their whole argument for them being 'more dangerous' than movies? If the game decides for ou.. then treat it the same as a movie, cos thats what it then is.

It's not only that they're engaged in violence, it's violence directed against specific ethnicities

Are they serious? Im sorry but ive never seen a game specifically target somebody just because of their race. ( i dont mean war games here, they are about armies fighting each other for political reasons, not just because of 'race') 

... and violence against women.

again.. where? I have gamed for 20 years, n havent seen any game specifically say 'hey lets go beat up women'. So they cant be that common.

 

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

Violence towards women? They're just pulling stuff out of their ass!

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

"the levels of violence in children’s toys and games"

That right there is the problem. Not all games are for children, as shown by the M rating displayed on the box, manual, and the disc. I am an adult and I want to kill (virtual) ****.

If you really are anti violence then do stuff that will actually reduce violence such as mentoring a child and keeping drugs off the streets. That would be more helpful than restricting enertainment that has little to nothing to do with it.

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

Oh look, they found out that people think fake violence is fun...  Whoopedy-Doo.  *twerls finger in the air*

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

These people would be ttaken more seriously if they approaced it from a standpoint of letting a child have the toy or game but explaining to them the diffrence between right and wrong or to put it simply: PARENTS NEED TO ACTUALLY PARENT THEIR KIDS!

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

Maybe one day they'll get around to rating bookstores and how open the 'Sex' section of the store is. And how you can buy smut novels without, y'know, an ID. And then they can check out the 'War/Military' section of the store for the violence rating.

******************** "Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedom

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

This shit is ridiculous.

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

Personally, a child who is isolated from violence WILL still have to face it when they get to school, when they grow up, etc. All that isolating them does is prevent them from being able to solve violence related problems later on. I'm non-confrontational, I have trouble with real violence. I was mostly isolated from violence while growing up, but I'm glad I was able to sneak in such "dangerous" (as categorized by my parents) media such as "Vampire Hunter D", Transformers, Zelda: a Link to the Past, Doom, etc... These are some of my most cherished childhood memories now.

In fact, in retrospec, everything that my parents had tried to keep me from is now my hobby. Perhaps these groups are going at this the wrong way?

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

They're definitely going about this the wrong way. Like you said, banning something is the best way to get a kid interested in it. Better to let them have a toy gun and get bored with it than make it into a magical, forbidden toy.

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

"it's violence directed against specific ethnicities ... and violence against women."

I've been an avid gamer since the days of Pac Man, and it's these kinds of comments from "outsiders" (people who don't actually know a thing about video games) that continue to baffle me.  I'm thinking as hard as I can, but I don't remember a single game that advocated, encouraged, or even rendered violence against women moreso than against men.  In most cases women are even left out as potential targets, or are more rare (case in point: Fallout 3, where the vast majority of the Raiders are men).  Are they suggesting that female characters should never be used?

As for ethnicities, it is true that games often set up scenarios that let you loose on a particular ethnic group.  However, it it specifically those "scenarios" that make such decisions not racist.  You kill nazis in a WWII game, it doesn't mean you're directing violence at all germans.  If the game is about anti-terrorism, having Fundamentalist Islamists as the bad guys doesn't make you hate all Muslims.  Mercenaries 2 was not a game supporting the overthrow of the Venezuelan government.  Resident Evil 5 is not racist against Africans.  You have to have a story behind these games, and believable locations.

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

Oh for heaven's sake.

I'll be the first one to say that Toys R Us doesn't deserve a poor rating. They sell M Rated Products but they are very, VERY strict in how they sell them. You can't sell anything to a minor, and they have to present ID. If they do not have ID, a parent has to be the one to buy it on their behalf.

I would know this as I used to work at Toys R Us. I was always in the video game department being I knew the games and would follow them faithfully. I'll never forget kids that even tried to bribe me to sell them GTA and I wouldn't budge. Unfortunately, I had no power over the parents who would cave in to their kids begging and buying it for them - Even after I told them it had killing, hookers, stealing cars, drug dealing, etc...

Those parents knew what that game had. I told them everything about it. They still bought it. Toys R Us is not responsible for that, and they aren't responsible for allowing their stores to sell the games.

The employees are trained well to make sure kids don't get them. Unfortunately, it has loopholes but it isn't that bad of a store. It thinks of the children, and I know this.

Amy Levandoski

Amy Levandoski

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

They're not so much concerned "how" the games are sold (or not sold, as may be the case with minors), but with the fact that the games are sold at all.  The group is basically saying that the games promote violence and are essentially "bad."  Therefore, simply having them on the shelves gets you a low score.

Not that the rating means anything, anyway.  The group set up the standards for the "inspections" themselves.  The whole thing is useless.

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

Who are these jokers? Honestly I wouldn't worry about them, looks like they don't have any 'news' older than 3/5/2008. So they are less than a year old and don't look to be too big, at least this 'winnipeg chapter' of them that is, a quick search in google doesn't pull up any other chapters though apparently they are church based. I'm a christian man myself, though I am not a fundamentalist or extremist like these guys.

If you read the home page they basically sounds like a bunch of hippies. That somehow by blotting out all forms of violence everywhere, the world will suddenly become some sort of utopia where the human race acts as one huge ethnic group. light will shine down everywhere and the world will become a huge mothership racing around the milkyway spreading joy and cheer, solving problems for alien races and....  ok well it doesn't say all that but thats about how credible these guys sound.

Everyone else has stated it but just to reinforce: Not all video games are for children, so their point about COD and GTA is moot. Basicallly they want to coat the world in sugar so our children never learn violence. Problem is that violence is built into us and trying to supress the venting of anger/frustration/violence will only cause an explosion of violence later. Reminds me of the movie Equilibrium. Venting in small doses is good for everyone :P

Equilibrium is a great movie BTW, check it out if you haven't seen it.

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Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

Always wondered if Brandt had been taking his Prozium. That fragger was PISSED!

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

I'm missing something really important here.

Actual information.

Seriously, they just give the grades (and of course a Christian shop gets highest grades) without saying what exactly they noticed. What games were located at what eye-height? Define easy to find violent toys. What exactly IS a violent toy? A toy sword? A toy gun? Cuffs? I used to get those at the fairs as rewards for scoring points at those fishing games and such, they broke easily but were rather fun. Violent? Hardly. Do they see that as violent? I don't know!

Did they even bother with the fact that not all adults are much taller than most kids and many shops don't clearly make an age-distinction so perhaps mix different ratings? Is an entire stand dedicated to a new popular game for mature teens promoting violence for kids? Did they run into that kind of things? I don't know!

 

Even HACK (freudian slip) gives more information.

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

Considering I've seen a Christian store sell a plastic sword and armor set. "The sword of the Lord, the armor of God, and the Shield of Christ" or somesuch?

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

"The kind of toy we're trying to encourage here are those that build a child's creativity, a sense of collaboration and skills of co-operation."

 Games (not necessarily violent ones) do promote all of the above; now the question is, are they targeting all games or just the ones they perceive as violent? This would add a whole subjective elemet to their arguement. For example, do they considered Bomberman to be a violent game? How about Mario? Do the enemies being killed have to be anthromorphic or is it the loss of life period that makes it violent?

"With [video games], you don't determine the level of violence of your interaction -- the game determines the violence for you... It's not only that they're engaged in violence, it's violence directed against specific ethnicities ... and violence against women."

 One "violent" video game comes to mind with this statement: In Fallout 3, one of the developers beat the ENTIRE game with only killing on Radroach, and the one Radroach he killed was in the tutorial/intro with no work around. Determines the violence for you my eye.

 As for violence directed against ethnicies? What a farce. Games are ALWAYS Team Blue vs. Team Red. Interchange red/blue with living/zombies, NATO/USSR, Anti-Terrorist/Terrorist, etc. So unless there is some multicultural bad-guy group out there I don't know about, its unavoidable. Maybe we should revive Cobra, I think they had a mix of everything in that.

 And apparently violence against men is perfectly acceptable, but shoot a she-zombie or otherwise armed female combatant and its a crime against society. So much for equality; oh wait, I keep forgetting that door swings one way, I apologize.

"Our goal... is to raise awareness about the levels of violence in children’s toys and games and to call on retailers, government and the wider community to take steps to limit this violence..."

 Are the cops going to frisk little Billy when he leaves Toys'R'Us to see if he is packing? Levels of acceptable behaviour, aside for legal instances, are the responsibility of the parents and not societies.

" These are the kinds of things we were looking for:"

  • Whether in-store displays promoted violent toys

   Stores are in business to make money, they are not going to hide product they are trying to offload.

  • "Whether they sold violent and militarized toys, and particularly if they were at eye-level for young children"

   Subjective once more, if they dressed up G.I. Joe in a policemans uniform, is it any more or less acceptable? Maybe they want toy guns to not go "bang" when the trigger is pulled, instead they should recite Ghandi quotes or something. Oh yeah, that will go over real well.

  • "Whether toy guns were sold and how realistic they were"

   See above.

  • "Whether violent electronic games were sold, how they were displayed."

   I have this image in my mind of a group of childrenless women standing around a toy store whining about how society is corrupting the youth...

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

One "violent" video game comes to mind with this statement: In Fallout 3, one of the developers beat the ENTIRE game with only killing on Radroach, and the one Radroach he killed was in the tutorial/intro with no work around.

O_o  Is this possible?

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

It IS possible to beat Oblivion without killing a humanoid (trying to avoid the rats,skeletons and such is too annoying so I didn't even try it) but it is extremely difficult. so I assume that it is possible in FO3.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

"..."bang" when the trigger is pulled, instead they should recite Ghandi quotes or something."

lol

ahhh, that made my day.

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Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

Like the quote used against Jack a while ago?

"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

I would like to see this kind of messages being actually readed by those peace-fear-mongering morons for once...

The cynical side of videogames (spanish only): http://thelostlevel.blogspot.com/ My DeviantArt Page (aka DeviantCensorship): http://www.darkknightstrikes.deviantart.com/

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

Anyone know their e-mail address? I wanna send them a little present.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

-----------------------------



"A Chrono Trigger is anything that unleashes its will or desire to change history!" -Gaspar

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

Where's Jack when you need some 1u1z?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

-----------------------------



"A Chrono Trigger is anything that unleashes its will or desire to change history!" -Gaspar

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

His wife is making him work off that $43k

Sortableturnip's Law: As an online discussion of video game violence grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Jack Thompson approaches 1

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

*SNIP* Maybe a Campbell. (MGS4 reference)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

EZK: Leave his family out of it

-----------------------------



"A Chrono Trigger is anything that unleashes its will or desire to change history!" -Gaspar

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

You know, it's been proven that jack can be a pretty fly guy sometimes. I also think its pretty bad to wish I'll on him and his wife lief that.

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

who says it has to be a guy?

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

So they want to foster co-operation and a sense of collaboration?  Sounds good to me.

Anyone up for a Team DM game of COD4?

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

Did anyone else notice the gaping hole in their logic? They seem to think kids need specific toys like toy guns and soldiers to play "violent" imaginary games. They're kids; they have imagination. Give them a couple of sticks and they'll inevitably have a swordfight. Maybe this group should go regulate where trees drop sticks and let parents worry about what their kids play with.

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

My son is four and for the past year, he has had many stick swords and guns. Imagination rules.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
MySpace Page: http://www.myspace.com/okceca
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1325674091

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

Found an old rocking chair when I was a kid, it had been broken and left in the barn. We used the back, removing the slats and they were the perfect length (And weight, it was heavy oak) to make "Rifles" out of. We even used the rockers as swords. (If you look at them their curve is very much like a scimitar or katana)  ahhh good times.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

 Sticks; rated E for everyone.

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

Sticks: Rated M for violence.

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

If they want to instill a "sense of collaboration and skills of co-operation", might I suggest Left 4 Dead?

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

 I love Left 4 Dead, but I don't think its for the kiddies; :( it scares me sometimes.

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

Yeah I know.  They just seemed to be saying that games don't foster any cooperative spirit so I was showing how wrong they were.

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

Or any of a number co-op or team based games. With the draw of online play, collaborating with team mates has become a staple of anyone who wants to win.

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

Couple this with the fact that peopel are starting to see that even MMO's may have leadership benefits, the true potential of videogames is just being unlocked and violence plays an important role in it, not to mention a fun one too. 

EDIT: I'm sorry this group had 17 volunteers (undoubredly all Market research analysts or something to that effect) I take back everything.  It seems today anyone can get a logo and a fax machine and presto they are a legitimate group.  

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

Oh yay, another group trying to petition the world into being made of nerf.

---You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.

---You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

No, Nerf is too violent. It encorages people to hit each other, has guns which encorage children to shoot at each other, and otherwise promotes games which have "winners" and "losers," thus lowering the self esteem of children.

They are trying to make the country into tree hugging hippies! You know what, I was on the "losing" team more then the winning teams, along with usually getting picked last. All that did was puch me to kick everyone's butt at math, thus leading to the Presidential Math Award, high SAT scores, and a $13,000 scholarship. And even though I was fat, slow, and uncoordinated, I still ROCKED at dodgeball. You know that Dodgeball movie? That was pretty much the scene at my middle school. If you tell everyone that they are all winners, then they are complacent. If you tell a kid that he lost, and he'll need to work harder to win, maybe that will kick them in the butt to do something. People complained that Wii Fit told their kid they were fat. Put down the Oreo's and listen to what the box is telling you.

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

I would like to take this opportunity to say that dodgeball rocks hardcore.

"That's not ironic. That's justice."

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

I hate how they think that all games are children's toys. Last time I checked, the average gamer was around 30-years-old, so just like how there are violent movies, there are violent games. I guess that don't see that big huge M, saying it was mature 17+. I have a harder time finding the MPAA rating on movies, yet the ESRB is so much more prominent. How could they see the movie rating, yet completely miss the video game rating.

Also, what really concerns me is how guns are displayed in the states. I live in Canada, so when I saw guns at your local Wal-mart, I was shocked. What was even more shocking, some gun weren't behind a desk or anything, it was on shelves, in almost toy like packaging, and practically next to the toys section. When I first saw it, I thought it was a toy. Also, there were no employees anyway near that area to guard it. Now that concerns me, and these people are after fictional violence?

EDIT: I almost forgot one thing. How do video games encourage violence against women? You hardly see any of that at all. I would say Dr. Phil is doing a better job at that since the show makes it look like it's a common event.

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

I'd say lies, deceit, fraud, and corruption are the new tools of the "morally superior", but there's nothing new about it.

"Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto game series"

"levels of violence in children’s toys "

Excuse me, illiterate boob:

How is a product that is rated M for 18 and over a "child's toy"?

" It's not only that they're engaged in violence, it's violence directed against specific ethnicities ... and violence against women."

Hey, bigot, get a reality check here!  NPCs, as well as PCs, come in all shapes, sizes, races, genders, etc.

Seriously, don't scream for everyone else to be responsible when you're not even responsible, or intelligent, enough to get ALL the facts.  And if you're so immoral, dishonorable, and unethical to that you have to lie, deceive, misinform and commit other such acts to force your sociopathic beliefs on others, then maybe YOU should be the one to have watchdogs looking over YOUR shoulders.

nightwng2000

NW2K Software

Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

M is for 17 and older.  While technically a child, there's something wrong with a 17 year old that can't distinguish between reality and fantasy.  I expect 17 year olds to act like 18 year olds, because they're basically the same thing.

"That's not ironic. That's justice."

Re: Anti-Violence Group Checks up on Retailers' Violent Game

CoD and GTA are not for kids, but if they start complaining about GI Joe being marketed towards kids, or the level of violence in Naruto they are not going to gain a lot of traction wtih the mainstream press or parents. Better to bring out the bogeyman. 

Invoking GTA when talking about video games is the equivalent to comparing politician X to Hitler or Bin Laden. The average person may not know who politician X really is, but they know that Hitler was a baddy, so therefore....

--
http://mallvillestory.blogspot.com

 
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Andrew EisenOoo, this one came down to the wire! https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/749082525/nefarious09/19/2014 - 1:03am
Andrew EisenI don't doubt that many are truly interested in journalistic integrity. The problem I'm often seeing is they seem to have no idea how or where to talk about it.09/18/2014 - 11:46pm
Andrew EisenDidn't word that well. Busy at work. I've seen people claim that GamerGate is solely about ethics and transparency in games journalism and then go on to show that what they're really after is silencing those who talk about gender issues in games.09/18/2014 - 11:45pm
Kronodebate. Becaus apparently people who only post on Reddit are supposed to police twitter before they're allowed to question anything about the people involved.09/18/2014 - 10:40pm
KronoI highly doubt many, if any are using journalistic integrity as a cover for harassment. The people harassing are essentially trolls. They aren't interested in subtle. More often it's othe other way around. People use "but X is being harassed" to shut down09/18/2014 - 10:38pm
Andrew EisenAnd exacerbating everything is the fact that all the cries of ethics violations have been obnoxious and easily proven false.09/18/2014 - 8:59pm
Andrew EisenProblem is, I would imagine, the sheer number of people who are using journalistic integrity as a cover for their harassing actions or only bringing it up on the false pretense of journalistic integrity.09/18/2014 - 8:47pm
Andrew EisenHaving said that, I can certainly see how one would be frustrated if they truly just wanted to talk about journalistic integrity and someone said they were one of the people harassing Sarkeesian, Quinn and others (though I've seen no examples of that).09/18/2014 - 8:44pm
KronoThat's been the common refrain, that talk of journalism ethics is just an excuse to harass people.09/18/2014 - 8:44pm
KronoLines like "like a partial compromise with the howling trolls who’ve latched onto ‘ethics’ as the latest flag in their onslaught against evolution and inclusion." are taring everyone questioning the ethics as a harasser.09/18/2014 - 8:43pm
Andrew EisenKrono - Except, none of the articles were talking about gamers complaining about journalist ethics, let alone called them white male misogynists. They were talking about the gamers who were harassing others.09/18/2014 - 8:36pm
Kronomakes plenty of sense. It's rather hard to dismiss someone as a white guy running a sock puppet when they've posted proof they're a woman, or black, or another minority.09/18/2014 - 8:32pm
Kronothat any critics of journalists were white guys that hated women, and could be dismissed as such. It seems to have helped some. It's kind of difficult to maintain the white guy narrative in the face of a bunch of women and non-white guys. So the tag09/18/2014 - 8:32pm
Kronothat, someone vented on a #gamergate 4chan thread about being dismissed like that. The suggestion they got in return was to organize their own hashtag in response, with #NotYourShield being suggested. Thus the tag came into use to combat the undercurrent09/18/2014 - 8:32pm
Kronomuch more general problem. And while several of the articles were fairly tame, they spured a bunch of people to dismiss any critics of the journalism involved as misogynistic men. Usually with insults aimed at the geek stereotype. After about a week of09/18/2014 - 8:32pm
 

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