Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

November 25, 2008 -

In the United States, we generally relate our violence issues to easy access of firearms. In the UK, where guns are harder to come by, knives are the main source of concern.

Perhaps surprisingly, a panel of Merseyside teenagers blamed a wave of British stabbings on violent media, including video games. As reported by the Liverpool Daily Post, the teens suggested that age limits on some games be raised:

Ex-offender Bob Croxton, who’s now an outreach worker with Liverpool’s Criminal Information Bureaux, said his nephew had been stabbed to death at the age of 17.

He asked the panel the best way to tackle knife crime and was told raising the age on films and computer games would stop young people committing crime. It said parents should take care of their children and stop them hanging around the streets all day and night.

The panel responded to questions from officers from Merseyside Police, city councils and other youth and crime agencies. Action for Children, which supports and speaks on behalf of the vulnerable, organised the event as part of a government consultation.


Comments

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

Nice RvB reference.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

So they want games with an 18+ rating to be made to a 21+ rating??? 

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

He asked the panel the best way to tackle knife crime and was told raising the age on films and computer games would stop young people committing crime.

It's reactions like that which make you pause for a moment and wonder if you read it correctly.

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/may/13/ukcrime.boris

 

'Simply clamping down on the supply of knives – such as the installation of metal detectors at schools or equipping police with mobile metal detectors, as Mayor Johnson recently suggested – is not sufficient to address the problem, he added.

Instead, the mayor should focus on the social conditions in a cluster of boroughs that have generated a disproportionate number of the capital's knife crimes. Quoting Metropolitan police studies, Solomon said 2% of London wards have been responsible for 10% of all violent crimes involving teenagers.

"If you examine the conditions in these wards, these are areas of high social deprivation, social exclusion and lack of opportunities for young people," he explained. "The focus should not be on enforcement, but rather on opportunities for kids, through youth support services, peer mentoring schemes and employment opportunities for school-leavers."'

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So, if it was the Video Games, why isn't the balance spread evenly across the country and is instead focussed on the poorest areas, oddly enough, the ones that can't afford the Video Games?

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

So, if it was the Video Games, why isn't the balance spread evenly across the country and is instead focussed on the poorest areas, oddly enough, the ones that can't afford the Video Games?

Simple. If they can't afford the addictive games, then they commit violent crimes against those who can in order to get their fix and steal their delicious discs.

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

Its totally stupd huh, all the facts point AGAINST videogames causing crime. But people ignore them.

Guess it would mean they have to get off their lazy asses n jump down off the bandwagon.

 

The fact that its actually HIGER crime rates in poorer areas show the exact OPPOSITE of the 'video games cause crime' arguement. Like you said.. poorer peope = buying less games =.. higher .. crime .. rate?

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music


Just look at JBT, we show him the stats, he shows us BS stats that still dont prove him right, then he disappears since he lost.

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Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

ok.. let me just say i am FROM MERSEYSIDE!

I actually grew up in a school in liverpool (unfortunately!). Its a rough area.

 

And im sorry.. but this is utter BS!.  I dont know ANYONE here who is a teen, that says that films /video games push people to commit crime, and that raising age limits would stop it.  Im in my mid twenties, so i cant be that out of touch, it was only a few years back i was a teen, and NOBODY i knew (literally not one person) held the view that the crime caused in the 'rough' area was down to music and games and films. Everyone i spoke to held the same view that most sensible people here do, that no media 'causes' somebody to commit crime etc, its just that there are just some people (especially in certain parts of liverpool) who are just scumbags. Usually doped up, stealing / mugging for money for their next fix, or forming part of local gangs who fight over 'turf'. (a bizaare concept if you've seen the main areas being 'fought' over.. its like fighting over some wasteland.. it makes NO sense).  But.. sorry.. NEVER in my entire lifetime experience with liverpool, have i heard somebody familiar with videogames, say that these problems were down to games or other media 'causing' the isse. not once. So i dont know who these 'teens' are that they have spoken to. 'Specially selected' i expect.

Seriously. I know PLENTY of teens, (or ppl who were teens a few years ago) whose parents (mine included) let them play games without giving too much thought to the ratings. So firstly, if blame lies with anyone, it lies with the parents. However, like i said i have played violent games since i was around 4 years old (wolfenstein 3d anyone??), and i absolutely 110% DETEST violence in real life. It makes me feel physically sick. In fact just the other day my pet brought a mouse in and it was totally gross having to scoop it up. Now just explain to me how for one second, how i can find a tiny mouse physically sickening when its in pieces, yet i should apparently be completely desensitised to blood gore and violence.  As for commiting crime... just... NO. i have NEVER not a SINGLE time been in trouble with the police or commited a crime. And i live in the area, andplay videogames heavily (at least i used to).

Specifically the main reason i find suspicion with this 'panel of children' is that no age bracket for the panel is mentioned. 'children' really could mean 'children' (i.e. 13 years of age). And tbh 13 year olds can be easily manipulated to say what somebody else wants them to say. Hell even if these teens are 17 year olds etc, they can still have been manipulated, or chosen specifically to give theimpression of a united view on the topic, one that benefits the organisation who hosted the demonstration.

 

Additionally.. whats even more BIZAARE (as a resident of liverpool) is that Alcohol and drugs werent mentioned! Its a MASSIVE problem here!. EVERYWHERE you go there are gangs of kids (anywhere from 12+) sitting on street corners drinking bottles of cider, smoking weed etc). And the police barely do ANYTHING about it. I could literally find some kids doing that if i spent just 5 minutes driving around.

If you go into liverpool on a friday/saturday night, there are SO MANY police around its untrue! practically all of them are there as the bars are open all night. (24 hour drinking was a f**** stupid idea). Police vans parked everywhere. If you go to liverpool on a night out you'll usually see at least one if not more alcohol fueled punch ups involving anywhere from 2 -> 20 people. Gets worse when football has been on that night, massive clashes between opposing fans (red liverpool vs blue everton), involving, knives bottles, bats etc.

To put the problem further into context let me tell you about my close friend. She awoke one night to hear her front door being kicked down (by a drunk guy no less). It took the police ONE HOUR to get there... And there was a police van around 200 metres down the road in the city centre too, but they were too busy dealing with large fights to even send one person to stop the guy smashing the door.

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

"Gets worse when football has been on that night, massive clashes between opposing fans (red liverpool vs blue everton), involving, knives bottles, bats etc."

How bad do the soccer hooligans get anyway? I'm curious, because I've seen a site that makes them out to be short tempered guys who riot all the time and are really good at it.

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Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

They aren't rioting all of the time. However; they are violent, short tempered, overly passionate and often intoxicated. This is pretty much like sport all over the world.

 

IMA FIRIN MAH LASER!!!

IMA FIRIN MAH LASER!!!

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music


Yeah, I remember that as a teen I looked at Columbine and though, wow those kids are messed up in the head.  I played Doom to no end, and listened to the same music, and there is no way what they didn't wasn't them having previous psychological issues.

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Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

Good to hear from someone in the affected area chime in. Funny how you seem to have a better grasp of the situation, maybe they should just a have novablack panel :)   Your description sounds like what Ybor used to be like near downtown Tampa, FL, USA back in 1994-95. They had to clamp down hardcore to sort that mess out, even made a 'no cruising' ordinance, you couldn't go through the main strip (vehicles, not pedestrians) more than twice or you'd get a ticket. It probably wasn't as big as what your describing but the problems coming out of there were massive.

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Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

People are violent.  Guns or knives don't cause anything.  Nor does music or video games.  Humans are fond of blaming anything but ourselves for problems we cause. 

~~All Knowledge is Worth Having~~

~~All Knowledge is Worth Having~~

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

Can you say 'leading the witness'?

I don't deny that violent media has it's part, though I'd say more TV Violence which is not controlled than the legally restricted forms of entertainment, though parents in the UK are famous for ignoring ratings. However, the problem is that the kind of kids who sit down on a panel and give 'advice' aren't the ones doing the stabbings, so they, in truth, are reacting more out of peer pressure than any real knowledge of the cause.

As for Jack, a friend of my families was knifed to death about 5 years ago by someone who had escaped from a mental institution (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/man-killed-and-five-people-in...), so don't even think about making comments about the situation in the UK, because you don't have the faintest idea.

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

That was kind of silly.  They asked a panel of teens, about how to prevent teen violence?  I'm guessing that the teens involved with the panel weren't part of the violence problem.  You can take that as seriously as you would a teen saying, "Drinking alcohol is for losers."

If they really wanted to get down to it, they might ask real criminals in juvinile detention about why they did what they did.  After first explaining that their answers would not be used in any sort of defense to get them out early, that is.

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

It's like asking a panel of 5 year olds how to stop the big kid from taking their ice cream. 

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

@Jack:

You wouldn't know though, since you're very far from what most would consider "normal".

Oh, and it's adorable how we're supposed to take what you say as fact even if you don't back it up with things like "facts" or "statistics".

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

*facepalm*

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"Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

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"A Chrono Trigger is anything that unleashes its will or desire to change history!" -Gaspar

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

ENOUGH. Shadow, I love you, but stop posting "*facepalm*" without any other meaningful content. It's almost like posting "first" except you don't have to be first. If you put "*facepalm*" at the end of posts of yours that are 1 or 2 paragraphs long, I can live with that. But, for THE LOVE OF GAMING, contribute more than the phrase "*facepalm*", as it denotes nothing more than you put your face in your palm.

Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?" Pinky: "I think so, Brain, but we're already naked."

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music


Here is a cookie to calm yourself Demon, it is okay...  Kick Jack Thompson in the balls in your imagination to make yourself feel better if you have to.

---
Nido Web Flash Tutorials AS2 and AS3 Tutorials for anyone interested.
How to set Xbox 360 Parental Controls

Nido Web Flash Tutorials AS2 and AS3 Tutorials for anyone interested.
How to set Xbox 360 Parental Controls

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

That's what I'm doing just about all the time.

And SounDemon, *facepalm* usually sums up my opinion. Plus, you're channeling Derovius, except that you're not calling it emo.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

-----------------------------



"A Chrono Trigger is anything that unleashes its will or desire to change history!" -Gaspar

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

 You are emo, and now there is one more person who thinks you are fucking annoying. I especially like your threat in a previous topic, "Don't laugh at me or I'll tell the mods".

Try not to cut yourself too deep now, emo.

AE:  Enough.  Clipping it here.

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

 He's right though. It's become more obnoxious than shouting first.

 

I don't care if it's right and deserved or not. The people posting first are right too, they are the first (well.. sometimes), that doesn't make it less obnoxious. Stop, please.

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

Stop them from hanging around the streets, by keeping them at home and they will most likely watch movies and TV, and play video games instead.

What? 

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

That's exactly what I was thinking...

If it's not video games's fault that your teenager is staying in her room all the time like a hermit, with her social skills withering away, then it's video games's fault that she's out on the streets day and night...

Um, what is it they're supposed to do again?

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

It's never the parents.

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

No of course it isn't!

Nobody actually wants to take responsibility and so they look to games, movies, whatever they can find, to pump up their self righteous egos and pass judgement.

People seem to be willing to blame almost anything else within reach - especially if it's popular - instead of looking at the root cause of the problem; it's like trying to cure chickenpox by painting over the sores.

--Olly

-- Olly

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

This is why knifings are up in Japan.  They have no private ownership of guns, so brutal attacks by gamers with knives have gone up.  I know this is pretty complicated stuff for gamers to digest, but normal Americans can figure it out.  Jack Thompson   

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

Didn't you send me an e-mail a couple of weeks back in which you claimed, "I am trying to get clear of you people"?

And yet you keep coming back...

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

Have you ever known him to try something and not fail?

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

 He does a spot on impression of a douchebag. Best I've ever seen in fact.

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

Jack, Whoever you are, it seems that you are somewhat known for trolling here , i really hope you are absolutely not serious. Only an Uneducated,  unintelligent person would call a whole group of people mindless morons just because of a hobby. Who in the world do you think you are?

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

"An uneducated person who happened to get a Doctorate in Law!!!" Jack Thompson would say. 

Which shows you that at the time of Jack's commencement, Vanderbilt University must've been handing out law degrees from a Cracker Jack box. Now he permanently pissed away his career and diploma, which is supposedly a big feat (but nothing to be proud of) in the law world.

Jack Thompson will not only be famous in the videogame community but in the law community as well. Open up a law textbook of the future, and students will know this guy was the odd case of utter fail in the industry, and serve as a warning to students: "Don't be this guy!" Maybe his name will be uttered among law colleagues, but not as a tribute but as a term to define unorthodox behavior in the courtroom: "Did you hear about what happened with Ron yesterday? He pulled a Thompson in front of the judge".

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

 Since you seem to be new here, first I want to say welcome.

 Now to the matter at hand: Jack Thompson was a lawyer who has since been disbarred for life for among other things Lying, Behaving in an inappropriate manner in court, Harrasment of judges, Harrasment of opposing council in cases,Falsely representing himself as an attourney attached to a case, Attaching homosexual pornography to a court motion, multiple counts of filling specious motions even after he was barred from filling a motion without the signature of a second attourney in good standing with the Bar Association of his state. The list is alot longer, he was found guilty of...I think it was 47 out of 49  seperate infractions and was disbared in perpetuity as well as a fine in excess of $43,000 if I remember correctly. Run a search on Jack Thompson here and you'll get the whole story (And probably more then you wanted.

 Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

Don't forget threatening the lives of every poster here.

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

True but didn't want to scare the new guy/girl off yet.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

thanks for the welcome, Im a "He" Btw, Hehehe haven i been uninformed, (if thats even a word), i dont get scared at empty threats by the way :)

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

1. Knifings are also up in my country too Jack, but it can be attributed more to our rising cost of living, poverty, and the utter lack of moral decency by our politicians. Video games? Are you kidding - they're an excellent stress reliever here given the shit we're looking at every day.

2. If I recall, in the aftermath of the last idiot in Japan who went on a killing spree with a knife and truck,  there was a massive outpouring of sympathy and support from the residents of the Akihabara district in where the crime was commited. A good majority of whom were fellow otakus and gamers I might add. I know this is pretty complicated stuff for disbarred lawyers to digest, but normal people can figure it out.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

Hey John.  You do realize that the UK has the governmentally enforced age restrictions on games (as well as movies) and yet they still have problems with violence.  Gee, so does that mean that all of your unconstitutional laws would have also have had no effect?  Guess its time to get a new scapegoat.

Also like everyone else in this thread I want to see the statistics of the "gamer knifings".

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

"I am an expert in all cultures and people who play games are subpar Americans! I know they are because I used to be a lawyer and did I mention I am an expert in all cultures? By the way, I used to be a lawyer, and Jesus Christ said games were bad. Seriously, it's in the Bible. I saw it. It's there. What? No you cant have proof! I was a lawyer, why would I need to give you evidence!? You gamers are retarded. I'm Jack fucking Thompson! I do cocaine!"

 

********************

"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedom

******************** "Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedom

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

Oh Jack please.. Pfff!

did you take a degree in how to spout crap or does it come naturally?

I AM CALLING YOU OUT. SHOW ME STATISTICS! NOW. SERIOUSLY.

i want statistics of 'knife attacks by gamers'.

you dont have any? wow what a surprise!

(oh and stuff your google and wiki 'references' , they mean jack sh*t to anyone serious about academic level research )

 

 

 

And you know what even if you pull them out of your ass its still a correlation, not causation! (something you seem unable to grasp with your tiny pea sized brain).

You do realise the percentage of the population who game has gone up year on year dont you? In many countries,  (japan included) its now over 90% of citizens who game / have gamed. If you class anyone who games/has gamed as a 'gamer,  then of course most people who do ANYTHING will be gamers. By the same logic, 90% of the police force will be 'gamers'. 90% of pilots will be 'gamers'.

hell 90% of the victims in an earthquake or hurricane will be 'gamers'. Does that mean 'games caused the hurricane / earthquake'. No because its a CORRELATION. geez. It really isnt difficult to understand. Why doesnt your brain function properly its so frustrating.

hell even if you can show that there were 100 knife attacks last year, and 100 this year, but 96 were gamers last year, and 98 are gamers this year, it proves nothing! Its a pure corellation!.  As each year more people play games each yaer than the year before, its what youd actually EXPECT!

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

Where'd you get your information? Make it up like normal? Here's a link to an actual Japanese NPA (National Police Agency) report summarizing crime in japan. It breaks it down pretty good, including having a section devoted to Juvenile Crime, broken down into types of crimes commited and has stats from previous years.

http://www.npa.go.jp/english/seisaku5/20081008.pdf

Now, the weapon used doesn't necessarily matter in this case, talking strictly violence (since violent games = violent people) we're worried about the crime statistics. So feel free to peruse that report (I find it rather nice that the Japanese are nice enough to publish their stuff in english already). Point out, if you can, where the correlation between more violent games = more crime...

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Mod -1 : Troll

Jack's still trolling these forums?

Re: Mod -1 : Troll

Unsuccessfully, but yes.

Not like he has anything else to do... I mean yeah there's that blog, but that can only rake in so much, what with none of us having the slightest inkling of a desire to visit it.

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Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

Actually knifings are down in Japan, and brutal attacks by gamers with knives? You don't do anything for your already damaged reputation by simply inventing 'facts' to suport your arguments.

-- Olly

-- Olly

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

Jack;

Please, when you make claims like this make sure to give a citation (in proper BlueBook format of course).

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

This article has nothing to do with Japan. Duh.

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

JT and Geography seem to be another two things that don't go together

岩「…Where do masochists go when they die?」

岩「…I can see why Hasselbeck's worried about fake guns killing fake people. afterall, she's a fake journalist on a fake news channel」

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

SO if a person who has nebver once touched video gaems in their life, not even flash games, pulls a knife on someone, what would be your explanation?

Re: Panel of UK Teens Blames Knife Violence on Games, Music

Care to explain why the homicide rate is still low despite all of TEH VIOLENT GAMEZ?

Normal Americans should be able to back up what they assert, right?

 

 
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