Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

December 2, 2008 -

When it comes to DRM, it seems that Valve president Gabe Newell is one of those in the game biz who wears a white hat.

That is to say, he espouses a reasonable approach, one that is not a de facto screwing of game consumers.

In an e-mail to a gamer by the name of Paul Reisinger (posted on the ih8evilstuff LiveJournal page), Newell writes:

Left 4 Dead is developed entirely by Valve. Steam revenue for our games is not shared with third parties. Around the world we have a number of distribution partners to handle retail distribution of our games (i.e. make discs and boxes). EA is one of those partners.

As far as DRM goes, most DRM strategies are just dumb. The goal should be to create greater value for customers through service value (make it easy for me to play my games whenever and wherever I want to), not by decreasing the value of a product (maybe I'll be able to play my game and maybe I won't).

We really really discourage other developers and publishes from using the broken DRM offerings, and in general there is a groundswell to abandon those approaches.

Via: Tech in Hiding Games


Comments

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

Hmm.... paying in USD via the US site is what they want yes?  That is all I'm trying to do here. Not that I'm knocking others at all.

Anyway, yet another day has gone by and no response but by tonight I'll be playing the game as a license holder or not. I really don’t care anymore. I have had the Internet version of the game since release and I have waited over a week to play the "proper way" and spent more than the cost of the game in phone calls.

 

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"The most difficult pain a man can suffer is to have knowledge of much and power over little" - Herodotus

--------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The most difficult pain a man can suffer is to have knowledge of much and power over little" - Herodotus

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM


Meh they really should not lock it to regions but if they do they could charge a small fee(1-3$) to unlock it for that region..the trouble is they have a more rigged system than they need.

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Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

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Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

Valve is full of jerkoffs who are finding other ways to thwart buyers.

I live in Japan, and I bought left 4 dead from playasia.com, which is where most people get their import games.  The game didn't work because it was region coded specificaly for Hong Kong.  Only valve segregates asia into smaller sections to make more money.

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

In case you hadn't noticed, most games (and their systems) have region-encoding, and whether or not Valve is the only one to segregate Asia is irrelevant. You said it yourself - playasia is where most people get their IMPORT games. Keyword = IMPORT, meaning that any game you buy there could potentially be encoded for a region that is not yours. Blame goes to you, for not contacting playasia and verifying that you would be able to play it in Japan.

Then again, that would require actual WORK on your part, wouldn't it, and God forbid you have to do something as back-breakingly difficult as send an email to the site for verification before you buy.

L2PLY KTHXBYE

"Life sucks, get a fuckin helmet" - Denis Leary

"Life sucks, get a fuckin helmet" - Denis Leary

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

I dunno, probably because it's sold cheaper over in HK? I'm in Malaysia and I bought it retail for 138 MYR, which is cheaper than buying it on Steam, even with the pre-order discount. And I get 2 L4D mousepads, too.

Y'know, it's like when they print on some books saying "Only for sale in [country x]" or "Not for sale in the US".

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

I'm making the sweeping statements that 90% of arguements on this page are dumb.

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

Steam needs to get rid of its God damn IP checking for purchasing titles. Moreover they need to stop telling customers it is the credit card that is refusing the transaction when it is Steam. It is as if they really, really want you to play the titles for free when they REFUSE to take your money because of your IP address.  

 

Now I have the titles in question I wanted to pay for but after a WEEK I still have not heard from Steam. I even sent them another email a few hours ago informing them that if they refuse to take my money again - soon I will consider the games a gift since I'm apparently not in a market they want money from (Japan of all places) for English language games.

 

So they should be careful not to blame infringement but themselves and some piss poor antiquated geopolitical arbitrary market scam for the loss of sales.

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"The most difficult pain a man can suffer is to have knowledge of much and power over little" - Herodotus

--------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The most difficult pain a man can suffer is to have knowledge of much and power over little" - Herodotus

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

Ip checking?

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

Yeah the IP address of the PC that the transaction is coming from. This is on top of all the other security measures.

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"The most difficult pain a man can suffer is to have knowledge of much and power over little" - Herodotus

--------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The most difficult pain a man can suffer is to have knowledge of much and power over little" - Herodotus

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

IP checking is annoying but with a better offline mode and game transfer I'll put up with it and the other questionable statistic gathering they do.

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

Gabe Newell has got to be the smartest person in the whole industry. The things he says are always pure nuggets of wisdom.

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

steam is the best example of drm yes you have to actavite online but you get so much for the help another good one is

game for windows but that not that good but it easy to use ... i guess meh lol

 

oh dont forget about ubisoft they are just as bad as ea and take two

Thanks Zaruka

Thanks Zaruka

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

sorry to burst anyones bubble but steam is the only DRM that actually works...

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

And Gabes comments are pretty much why I bought Left4Dead for the PC and not Crysis Warhead or Spore recently. SecuROM will NEVER land on my PC ever again.

DRM should not be in your face. In fact you should barly know its there.

Steam needs work still though. I personally have never had an issue with the "offline" mode in Steam but I have a friend who repeatedly does.

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

First off, DO NOT bring World of Goo into an argument about needing DRM.

2D-Boy has already stated they believe it to be a waste.

http://2dboy.com/2008/11/13/90/

Second, while it is lousy that Steam doesn't work for everyone they way it should Gabe's point still stands.

Valve gives you something for your inconvenience, and Stardock gives you something if you choose to register. EA and Take-Two want total control over eveything that is done with the software. This is not realistic or acceptable. Treat your customers like shit and they will leave.

And for the record Fallout 3 was published by Bethesda. 2K had nothing to do with it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hookers and Ice Cream aren't free. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/stolen-pixels/5137-...

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

lol i love how ppl misquote world of gooas an argument FOR drm

 

from the article:

 

''in our case, we might have even converted more than 1 in a 1000 pirates into legit purchases.  either way, ricochet shipped with DRM, world of goo shipped without it, and there seems to be no difference in the outcomes.''

 

lol nice find

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

I am happy to see Mr. Newell come up with such a strong statement about DRM but I'd also like to remind him that there are a number of games on Steam that use invasive DRM like SecuROM and Valve has been lacking severely in informing people of that.  Several titles that have come out such as Crysis Warhead and Stalker Clear Sky used activation-based DRM and Valve purposefully waited until several days after they released to put that information on the product pages.  I bought Crysis Warhead on Steam because I was told by another site that it didn't use SecuROM.  It in fact does and when I asked Valve for a refund because I was not informed of that, they refused it and hid behind their terms of service.  Even though I had never run the game (or even installed it) since purchasing it, they refused me a refund for refusing to notify me about DRM I had a problem with.  Even if I bought the game in a retail store, I could have returned it unopened and that was effectively what I tried to do here.

Its easy to come out with a strong stance about DRM but it doesn't come off very genuine when your company pulls stunts like this.

Parallax Abstraction
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

 Of course it uses activation-base DRM for Valve software, you can PRE-LOAD the application prior to its release date so its ready to fly on that magnificant day. If they didn't have some form of activation people would crack the executables and play prior to release.

 Stop all this chicken little bullshit people, Steam has flaws but it significantly outweighs them with some heavy handed perks. So long as its servers don't crash, Steam is indominable.

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

Yes tis ebtter tham most DRM but the offline mode needs to be made much more streamlined and the game to opperate offline without all the option flipping that dose nto always work, its simple make the game to not care about being online after yuo install and verfiy it.

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

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Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

 Well fuck me, its that simple is it. Thanks for making the world a better place Zippy.

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

The problem with a forced online mode it creates issues when it can not turn off that forced mode thats why alot of us have trouble with steam because it wont turn off correctly and won't let you play offline, its a simple issue once tis been verified make all checks after it passive as so it can not create a conflict with offline.

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

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Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

yeah it is a simple issue... one that a solution to which has been implemented (hence millions of people able to play offline).

what is NOT simple is making it work on EVERY (almost infinite) combination of hardware. As stated earlier though, the users with problems are in the extreme minority. Its a bit innaccurate to try to paint a different picture.

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

But it is simple to fix jsut don't force the games abilty to play offline, change it to a passize system.

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

Yeah, make the company re-work its system to cater to the whiney (and extremely small) minority of people who can't get a piece of software to work correctly on their boxes.

For that matter, how the hell would you know how simple it is to implement a fundamental change to their system? Are you a software developer? Because I am, and I wouldn't want to touch that kind of effort with a ten foot pole and someone else holding it.


"Life sucks, get a fuckin helmet" - Denis Leary

"Life sucks, get a fuckin helmet" - Denis Leary

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

You mean polish it to make it a better system for all?

 

Oh please change the toggles,flags,links,hooks as so it only locks the game down when it senses a bad key or verification issue...if "the community" can rip out steam and crack it its that simple to change..... Its all about the effort they don't have it or don't want to change thats fine but I refuse to support the current system as do others because they can make it a better system and refuse to.

By all means buy what you want and support what you want we shall do the same.

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

I love how you keep claiming that "I refuse to support the system as do others" - what others? The people you magic-up in your own head to give your point more weight? You are, in business terms, an INSIGNIFICANT MINORITY. You don't matter. You don't count. Get over it.

"Life sucks, get a fuckin helmet" - Denis Leary

"Life sucks, get a fuckin helmet" - Denis Leary

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

The people that are downloading for one  *lick* =^^=

Man you are taking things way to seriouly.

 

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

The people that are downloading what? Steam games? That doesn't even make any sense. Why would people who are boycotting steam be "downloading" from it... ?!?!... dude, take your meds so that you can actually make a coherent point.

"Life sucks, get a fuckin helmet" - Denis Leary

"Life sucks, get a fuckin helmet" - Denis Leary

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

This.

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

Untill steam lets you have full off line mode thats automatic and unrestrictive after you install it I refuse to put up with it, while its heads above the rest its still amugst the reeking undead...

 

Also automatic patching/downlaoding for people on slow coenctions is a no no..... even on DSL I have to slot what I downlaod.....

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

Steam, Games, <Specific Game>, right click, updates.... WHAT do you know... the ability to TURN OFF AUTO UPDATES.

Also, what restrictions are you talking about? The inability to play multiplayer games in offline mode? Or would it be the lack of ability to connect to the friend's list. The games, SDK, and all offline components of steam still work unhindered in offline mode.

Personally, I've never had a problem with steam, and I've been using it since the launch of it. I've had a 1/2 dozen computers with it installed on it since then, and have been able to play every game I bought on every PC I installed steam on. 

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

It worked once or twice and that was only befor I let it update itself, nope sorry everytime I have ran steam I can not get offline mode to work,so I don;t put up with it.

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

What lovely logic "I can't get it to work, so it must be their fault." It couldn't possibly be that YOU are doing something wrong. 

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

Tell that to the milloins that have had issues with 360s. ^^

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

The RROD problem is not a valid analogy at all, as Microsoft owned-up to putting cheap ass hardware in their earlier runs of 360's. They even bent over and took it by dumping a billion into the replacement efforts, and don't charge you for the RMA.

Then again, I permanently fixed my RROD'd 360 in about 45 minutes and $1.30 in screws and washers from Home Depot, rather than scream and cry about it, so my opinion may be skewed a bit.

"Life sucks, get a fuckin helmet" - Denis Leary

"Life sucks, get a fuckin helmet" - Denis Leary

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM


When 3 in 10 units fail for the frist 4ish years and the refrub the damaged units and put the back out to market....yes its a rather good analogy becuse of the randomness of the problem, even at a 3 in 10 rate the majority have no issues while some have had to get their unit fixed 10 times over the years....a suggestion try and grow up some and think things though throughly....

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

Grow up? Coming from someone who whines about not knowing how to properly build a system and run a basic piece of software on it? Yeah, right, sure, keep thinking that. Again, it's NOT a proper analogy, because while the 360 had alot of bad systems that fail over time, Steam does NOT have that many people who can't figure out 1 + 1 = 2 to get their offline mode to run properly.

The fact that you're one of those losers who tries to pimp their blog on a friggin comments section doesn't really help your point.

"Life sucks, get a fuckin helmet" - Denis Leary

"Life sucks, get a fuckin helmet" - Denis Leary

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM


Funny I have built about 50 PCs in the past 10 years they are run fine well those that are still in operation,some just to old to upgrade anymore, my current reg is a C2D system with a video card thats worth more than a 360 elite least ti was last year...LOL aw damn that got me on that one :P

The problem is you refuse to believe that the program might work "differently" on different systems but you are pro dev they can do no wrong bugs are features and all that...


Really now who's telling a person to change his ways and stop complaining, whos the one between us  incapable of understanding people are different and have their own opinions, you keep replying with mroe and more drivel I am more than happy to reply because I am crazy and enjoy the lulz but really have you had enough yet?

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

More craziness from you in the form of putting words into my mouth - I never said that people having different opinions is a bad thing, I said that people in the INSIGNIFICANT MINORITY who can't figure out how to do something as simple as run steam or the games in offline mode are full of their own shit (like you, *lick*).

I also refuse to believe the stuff you make up to give weight to your points, like "me and all the others like me are boycotting" when you are totally alone, with no one giving a shit about your problems. Or saying that you've built 50 computers in the last 10 years, implying that they were all for you? Lulz, indeed, if you expect anyone to believe that you built or simply upgraded to a new system 5 times per year.. sure thing, buddy. I bet Steam won't work on any of them either, right? Because Valve just sucks so bad and hates you?

LOL, you are indeed crazy. Glad you own up to it. Oh, and good job pimping that blog that no one will ever visit, either. If you have to do such a thing in every one of your comments and forum posts, then you've already failed, because you don't understand that people ignore such things as a rule at this point.. dumbass.

"Life sucks, get a fuckin helmet" - Denis Leary

"Life sucks, get a fuckin helmet" - Denis Leary

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

The 360 has no problems or issues, the RRoD only effects less than .01% of the people that buy 360s. If you say anything to the contrary, you are a Sony fanboy.

At least, that is what they call me for pointing out the problems the 360 has.

"

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

Flamespeak

Wow.....the RROD issue effected 30% off the store shelfs(MS has admitted that much) and up to 60% off the manufacturing line of all units since the launch up to a couple years ago MILLIONS have had issues and trouble with the 360....please know what you are talking about before you open your mouth....my god out of touch and drowned in the kool aid..... The 360 has had the worst fail rate of any game console.......

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

 This sounds like an issue with you and your hardware, not Steam. Next you'll be asking where the any key is ffs.

 Some people don't deserve to lay their hands on a keyboard.

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

Its a software conflict they have yet to properly address(had it on more than 4 PCs and muliplie installs OS/game wise) and so I wont have anything to do with it some people like being raped in the ass they think its fun buying cheap crappy products at twice the price and do not mind intrusions of any kind, I however dun like my orifices being touched :P

Besides its the principle of it when you play and then get a drop in network connection you are SOL, there is just nothing worth while in the forced online connection scenario when you have already verified  the install online, to me its simple don't force the online aspect of it run a passive check system akin to IDs key check. A passive system would make steam perfect for me and others and much less of something to avoid.

PS:And those that name call and belittle others are far worse than a crazy fuzzy net rodent :P

 

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

Except that, once again, this is not a global problem - it's a YOU problem. You can claim to have the same problem on multiple OS installs all you want, but you are one guy out of all of us who's bitching that he thinks Steam sucks because it's flawed and doesn't work right.

Dude, I hate to do this (well, no I don't), but L2PLYNOOB.

 

"Life sucks, get a fuckin helmet" - Denis Leary

"Life sucks, get a fuckin helmet" - Denis Leary

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

Me and others refuse to put up with the idnutry as it is and seek to change it by not buyinginto the dispoable crap they sell, why can't you grow up and understand that?

 

And I never said steam sucks I said its flawed and I wont use it or support it till they fix it.

And if I did say it sucks well I have to eat my hat again :P

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

Then you have the option of, say, NOT running Steam in the background at all times, thus removing the bandwidth usage when you don't want it going on.

I also have to agree with the earlier post that Offline mode works just fine. I haven't had any problems yet, and if you do, perhaps it's with your system, or that you didn't properly download the game completely to the HD (which is required for Offline play).

You're really not making any valid points, here, you're just whining about problems that aren't global.

 

"Life sucks, get a fuckin helmet" - Denis Leary

"Life sucks, get a fuckin helmet" - Denis Leary

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

Its nice ti works for you, it has not worked for me thus I simply wont allow it in any active form on my PC so I installed the nice steamless version I got online of my retail steam games and they run just fine without the steam blaotware.

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

 What kind of crap box are you running that Steam could be considered bloatware?

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

Blaotware is just extra unneeded crap one dose not need, while 70% of steam might be worthwhile the main sticking points I have is resale rights(for retail packages) and Online/offline issue...not to mention "statistic gathering"...but then that one is a tinfoil hat issue heheheheeheh :P

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Report: Valve's Gabe Newell Disses DRM

um right click on the steam icon in the quick tray.. click 'exit'

Or

Ctrl Alt Del, to get task manager. Go to processes look for 'steam.exe' do 'end process'

bandwidth problems solved.

 

 
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MaskedPixelanteSpeaking of Dark Souls OMG I'M MAKING ACTUAL PROGRESS WTH IS THIS WHAAAAAAA12/23/2014 - 10:49am
MaskedPixelantehttp://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=144500932&postcount=740 Yup, DSFix was part of an unrelated take down, and is being resolved.12/23/2014 - 8:04am
prh99Of course had they not done such a rush on the port we wouldn't dsfix to make the game not look and play like ass. 720 internal renders aren't so hot scaled to 1080.12/23/2014 - 7:38am
 

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