Thompson: God is Behind Take-Two Stock Slide

Is God behind the recent plunge of Take-Two Interactive’s stock price?

When it comes to business, should one’s religious beliefs even matter?

For the controversial, disbarred attorney Jack Thompson, the answer to these questions would seem to be yes.

On Friday, GamePolitics reported on Thompson’s claim that he planned to lead a stockholder revolt aimed at ousting Take-Two chairman Strauss Zelnick.

While Thompson says that he wants to hold Zelnick accountable for T2’s tumbling share price, his comments must be weighed in light of the disbarred attorney’s oft-expressed distaste for Take-Two and its chairman.

As to the would-be shareholder revolt, it brought to mind a recent e-mail exchange between GP and  Thompson which may shed some light on the anti-game activist’s apparent belief that divine retribution of the Christian deity is behind Take-Two’s depressed stock price. Those e-mails follow:

————————–

From: Jack Thompson
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 6:44 AM
To: Dennis McCauley
Subject: Spin this, Strauss…

GOD STRIKES TAKE-TWO DOWN

Take-Two dropped $2.35 to $9.72 in extended trading after the announcement and fell as low as $9.60. The shares… have declined 35 percent this year. The results contrast with comments Zelnick made in an interview on Nov. 3, when he said sales of the company’s video games hadn’t been hurt by the recession…

————————-

From: Dennis McCauley
To: ‘Jack Thompson’
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 6:52 AM
Subject: RE: Spin this, Strauss…

So, if T2’s business reverse was God’s vengeance, does that mean that God struck you down too when you were disbarred?…

————————–

From: Jack Thompson
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 9:10 AM
To: Dennis McCauley
Subject: Re: Spin this, Strauss…

…If you had any understanding of the Bible and of God you would understand that persecution comes Christians’ way, and we are blessed by it.  There is no blessing for Zelnick, who is not a Christian, when he gets what he deserves…

—————————

From: Dennis McCauley
To: ‘Jack Thompson’
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 6:54 AM
Subject: in relation to your Take-Two shareholder revolt…

…Are you saying that problems for Christians are blessings, while problems for non-Christians are vengeance from the Almighty? Also, how do you know what Zelnick’s religion is?

—————————

From: Jack Thompson
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:11 AM
To: Dennis McCauley
Subject: Re: in relation to your Take-Two shareholder revolt…

Here’s another passage of Scripture that you don’t understand and never read:  "All things work to the good for those who love the Lord and are called according to His purpose."  That group would include me and not Zelnick.  Zelnick is not a believer in the Gospel.  How do I know?  Because the man who got us together [secretly, in Manhattan in 2007] is a Christian, with a massive ministry in Hollywood and the rest of the entertainment industry.  It was because of the spiritual aspect of this struggle that he got the two of us together, and Zelnick failed the test. 

If you knew anything about the Gospel, you would understand further that Paul, whose writings are considered part of the canon, tells Christians, not unbelievers, that we are to "count it all joy" when trials and tribulations come our way. 

I have been persecuted for my faith, not because I did anything wrong, by those committed to evil.  Glad to clear it up for you.  And as it now stands, Mr. Zelnick’s problems at Take-Two are minuscule [sic] compared to the eternity of punishment that is coming his way unless he repents and accepts Christ as I did 32 years ago this month.  You might do well to read the Gospel of John yourself.  Come to think of it, I’ll write Strauss about all this and send you a copy…

—————————

Thompson did not respond to GP’s request to name the man who supposedly brokered the 2007 meeting with Zelnick. The letter to Zelnick which Thompson mentions can be viewed here.

GP: Serious consideration was given as to whether to publish this story as I realize that some will  find Thompson’s comments about non-Christians offensive. Ultimately, in deciding to publish, the opportunity to provide an insight into Thompson’s mindset outweighed the other issues.

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340 comments

  1. Monte says:

     Zero tolerance… that’s the kind of thinking that lead to the crusades

    When you go and try to rid the world of religion, what do you do to those that will not let go? What does the concept of "zero tolerance" tell you to do to those people? Essentially in the end you force your way of thinking on them in the same damn fashion that the religious have done throughout history… you successfully become that which you condemn… you’re beliefs are different, relying on science, but your methods become all the same… hatred, discrimination all the thing you blame religion for you will come to commit. To fight your devil you yourself shall become a devil.

    By embracing the concept of "Zero tolerance" you have taken the first step. Zero tolerance brings you into conflict and brings you to hate people, even people that have done no real harm to you or anyone else; you force your thoughts and opinions upon them… the next step is going on to exactly how far you will try to push those people. Frankly you’re joining the ranks of the nut case religious

    thinking about it, i do believe, Stalin and Mao were very big on the idea of purging religion from their nations… heh, and i think i also once heard Stalin himself was originally raised as a christian before becoming an atheist

     

    while you war agaisnt the religigous nuts, The more intelligent atheists and theists on the other hand embraced the concept of tolerance… Accept the beliefs of others, live and let live and move on… you live your way, and i live my way, and we let nothing more than the laws and rules of our nation judge our actions

  2. Harry Miste says:

    I’m afraid that we don’t listen to rambling morons. It seems we can compare you to Jack Thompson as well.


    XBOX LIVE GamerTag: Harry Miste | Steam ID: Harry Miste | PSN ID: HMiste | EYE. HAVE. YOU.

  3. Harry Miste says:

    Know why he’s facepalming? Because of people’s stupidity, such as yourself.


    XBOX LIVE GamerTag: Harry Miste | Steam ID: Harry Miste | PSN ID: HMiste | EYE. HAVE. YOU.

  4. Adamas Draconis says:

    "I wonder how many they would find among self-proclaimed atheists.  After all, its the new pop-culture religion, just like cabbalah used to be.  It’s right up there with being a Wiccan.  All the coolest people are doing it.  Jackass.  Are you bisexual too?  Do you like to dress up in dark clothes and listen to the latest emo bands too?  Do you write shitty poems about how bad the world makes you feel?"

    1) I’m Pagan

    2)I’m Straight.

    3)I and most of my fellows wear jeans, quite a few wear suits.

    4)Old country and hard rock all the way baby.

    5)the only poetry I write is during ritual work.

     

    Please do not try to lump us all in to that idiotic "Hollywood" stereotype. It’s almost as offensive as saying all Christians are dogmatic,hate mongering ****-tards.

    Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

  5. Beacon80 says:

    Ah, but when someone asserts that something doesn’t exist, the burden of proof is on them.  If I want to disprove a theory, I need to prove that it doesn’t work.  There is evidence, sketchy as it may be, that God exists, mostly in the form of various eye-witness accounts transcribed in the Bible.  I’m agnostic, so I’m certainly not suggesting that anything in there is solid proof.  There’s no actual evidence to suggest that God doesn’t exist.

    Aitheists don’t bother me.  It’s a belief that’s just as valid as any other.  Militant aitheists bother me, though, again, just like any militant theist.  Derovius seems to believe that there’s a zero percent chance that God exists.  Anyone who truly believed in (and understood) science would agree that the odds of a truth never reach an absolute, be it 0 or 100 percent.  I’m reasonably sure that if I let go of a ball, it will fall down, but I can’t be 100% certain even of this simple fact.

  6. GRIZZAM PRIME says:

    When a person asserts the exsistence of something, the burden of proof is there’s, so as to prevent someone from doing something like claiming dragons are real unless proved otherwise; there is no evidence to support their exsistence, but no evidence to prove they don’t other than the assertion’s lack of proof.

    It is normally held that due to the supernatural abilities of "God", it could conceal itself perfectly, or defy the laws of science and reason, and is therefore not provable nor disprovable in the arena of science. There are also questions of what could be considered proof of a mythical deity’s exsistence, as some people would consider life alone as proof, although life alone proves nothing but life alone, so would say one who chooses not to believe in a higher power. Then of course there’s the question of how to define god, is it defined by it’s power or it’s supposed omnibenevolence, yatta yatta yatta…

  7. Gabriel Celesta says:

    Okay, in retrospect, I sounded harsh in my previous comment. But I will say this: My previous comment was in regard not to the discussion itself, but your attitude about it. It would be to your benefit to have an open mind, not an "I’m right, you’re wrong" attitude and the penchant to deliver insult comments (a la Jack Thompson).

    Anyway, about the discussion about God, I’ll make this simple. Are you wrong in not believing in God? No. Am I wrong in believing in God? No. It’s all in what we believe in. It’s that simple. But please, don’t try to force-feed your belief to others, which is what you appear to do.

    That’s all I have to say. But I will give you some credit for replying to one of my comments. Jack Thompson never did, for some reason…

  8. hayabusa75 says:

    What alternate dimension have you been living in?  Say hello to my twin for me while you’re there.

    "There is no sin except stupidity." – Oscar Wilde

  9. hayabusa75 says:

    Derovius is a lot of things, but simple-minded isn’t one of them.

    "There is no sin except stupidity." – Oscar Wilde

  10. Meggie says:

    Seriously, as a Christian I can’t STAND the way he feels the need to "represent" us. "God smites the non-believers!" is a claim centuries old, but "God smites us and we love it"? There is a degree of living with persecution (see: Beatitudes), but his words are extreme perversion of that concept.

    It’s pretty ironic to hear "we’re blessed by persecution" coming from a guy who’s known for shouting "help help I’m being repressed!" and filing lawsuits over every little thing.

  11. Beacon80 says:

    There’s a difference between skepticism and dismissal.  By referring to God as fictional, you are saying that you believe there is absolutely no chance that there is a God.  Since you have no proof of this, you’re showing just as much blind faith as the people who say there IS a God without any proof.

    And God is a proper noun, therefore, it gets a capital G.

  12. Austin_Lewis says:

    Where did I suggest that those who don’t follow the word are everything that’s wrong with the world?  Really, you do an amazing job of reading into what people say to find whatever you want. 

  13. Austin_Lewis says:

    Actually, a lot of successful divers are big fans of Houdini’s methods for controlling one’s breathing.  Just because you can’t find use for it in your myopic viewpoint doesn’t make it useless.

    Oh, and I knew it without google or wikipedia. 

  14. jkdjr25 says:

    What you are is clearly evident. Much like the oft maligned Pandralisk you are a bully.

    Any who think differently than you are clearly inferior beings before your own self appointed greatness. It is men like you sir, so enamored of their own intellect and smug sense of superiority, that are the reason why there is so little in the way of civil discourse.

     

  15. Adamas Draconis says:

    *Hangs up a pentacle*

    Touchy subject there for some of us.

    Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

  16. Chaltab says:

    I take back my earlier comment. This is not blind unbelief. This is comitted, willful unbelief. I doubt you’d even consider belief in God if he reached down and slapped you. You don’t really want any argument that God might exist–you just want something to ‘destroy’ in order to make your internet penis look bigger. It’s quite pathetic.

    For whatever reason, you hate people of faith so much that you won’t even consider that our words might be true. And it’s clear your faith in science and your own brainpower is far more unshakeable than my faith in God. Being full of yourself is not intelligence, man. It’s foolishness. You don’t have to be a believer to know that.

  17. Adamas Draconis says:

    Really Derovius? I do not believe your evil because you don’t follow my religion, It is the choice you made and I’m happy you find joy in it. I do wish others felt the same as I, but that is their choice as well, and I hope they find joy in it as well. But I admit I do have issues with those that do try to force others to follow their way of thinking instead of letting them follow their own consience (sp?)

    Blessed Be.

     Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

  18. Adamas Draconis says:

    Actually many ancient cultures recognized homosexuality and bisexuality. Most Native American tribes actually saw them as acting as a bridge between the male and female, and considered such a one to be blessed with great wisdom.

     Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

  19. Derovius says:

     Middle Eastern Goat Herders from 2000 years ago, filtered through a few centuries of word-of-mouth story telling before being translated into Greek leaves me somewhat skeptical. And its not grammatically correct to capitalize god in the middle of sentence, its an idea, not a person.

    Otherwise I Should Just Capitlize Everything In The Sentence In the Off Chance That It May Vaguely Be Referring To A Fictional Entity.

  20. Derovius says:

     Seriously, do I know you? I keep finding your random comments at the bottom of my genius, and I want to know why you’re so clingy…

  21. Derovius says:

     Religion has power because people submit themselves to them. To bring down said religion, you remove the base: its followers.

     The problem is not the individual, but the ideology. As I said, by comparison, there has never been equivalent events involving athiests. Zero tolerance should be enacted for this behaviour, as they are obviously in no position to police their own people.

  22. Beacon80 says:

    There you go again.  You complain about Christians having faith in God, yet you’re willing to denounce the entire thing as fictional without a shred of proof.  I’m not saying you have to believe, but by your own logic, shouldn’t you at least concede that if you don’t have any proof that God doesn’t exist, there exists at least a small chance that he does?

    (FYI, I’m not Christian.  I capitolize God because it’s grammatically correct to do so.)

  23. jer says:

    I was just correcting you on a flawed thought you have.  Then you attack me for no reason, about something totally unrelated to what I said. I did not even mention my thoughts on this topic (not like you’d care anyway if I was for or against it.)

    Please get over YOURself.

  24. Derovius says:

     Because people who try and think about the nature of existance are the devil right? Save your song and dance, I know it all too well.

  25. Derovius says:

     Maybe he mistook Michael for Michele. Or maybe you’re especially feminine. So many possibilities, its maddening…

  26. Derovius says:

     I was referring to her completely lack of originality, turning one persons comment on her qualities back at them because she literally has nothing to fight with.

  27. Beacon80 says:

    Wow, Phalanx has specifically stopped you from performing stem cell research, cloning, having an abortion, and he gathered a crowd to cheer when you buried you loved one?  Phalanx, why would you do all that?

    You’re missing his point.  Yes, there are bad Christians out there.  But you’re not attacking bad Christians.  You’re attacking all Christians apparently on the assumption that all Christians, good or bad, contribute to these things.  Phalanx has never done anything bad to you, so why does it matter if he believes in a god or not?

  28. Derovius says:

     Ah, the wonderful byproduct of organized hate speech. "Those that don’t follow the word are everything thats wrong with the world". There is simply no discussion to be had with someone like you, you cannot argue rationally, you stab at the air with your insults hoping they will somehow land home and make your point. Indeed, you are a waste of my time :(.

  29. Derovius says:

     Plastic surgery was born out of the need to give back dignity to terrible disfigured people. Simply because its officers have sold themselves out to the vanity of others does not debase its honorable beginnings.

  30. Derovius says:

    "The way you’re acting, it only proves that you worship a god with the same fervor as the people you are calling fools: you insult them because the god they worship is not the one you do; you try to dissuade them from believing into their god and try to make them believe in yours, even if they are content with their belief and no one suffers from them believing in their god.  The god you worship is Logic."

     Those who lack the language to describe an idea will use what they know to communicate. You know nothing other than worship, so the idea of a strong grounding in an idea, some could say unwavering, smecks of devotion. Logic is an philosphical idea, a way by which humanity has attempted to seperate themselves from their bias view of what reality is in the search of the absolute truth of a subject. It cannot be worships, deified or brought down to the level of a religious act, as it is in its purest form that which is not human. Religion is a human construct, as logic, but is however subject to interpretation and therein lies its failure.

    "I believe in God, I’m proud of it, and there’s no way you can stop me from doing so while you continue to act the way you are.  I really, really don’t think humans normally act purely on logic alone.  We love, hate, and feel a plethora of emptions that can and will make us make illogical decisions instead of logical ones.  I agree to some degree, that we need logic.  But as humans, our ability to be illogical is part of our nature; throwing this away and making everyone act only on logic will take away what makes us human, and make us just like every other animal in the world.  Insulting us won’t make us say that you’re right.  We believe in God or multiple gods, and as long as we don’t harm anyone or try to justify immoral and evil acts with the words "I’m doing God’s will", we have the right to believe any way we want to, in any god, whether God, logic, or otherwise. "

     You’re absolutely right, to be a logicly thinking individual is anathemic to a humanist or religious individual. Such is the definition of perfection, that which is everything beyond what one is capable of being. You have crossed yourself in a rather blatant manner, to be a christian is not to acknowledge that humans are animals, but you are somehow special due to the tinkering of a deity. If you believe otherwise, you are obviously confused as to where you lie, much like a bisexual is generally considered a confused person, not sure whether they are completely heterosexual or completely homosexual.

    "I’m a Catholic, but I don’t try to make everyone believe in my God. I have always seen different religions as the ways humainity has tried and will try to see God, not with mine being superior for such-and-such reason; in addition to this, believing that there is no God is another way to see Him, just as not seeing is another way of viewing the world around you, in a sense."

     So you think Taoism and Scientology are looking for your god? Not all religions worship one deity, or a deity at all, its the blind faith you all have in common that is your failing.

    "But to me, logic sounds like a cruel and cold thing to worship.  When you’re lonely, having God there with you to share your lonliness and your fears is a good feeling.  With logic, the only thing it can do is to tell you, plainly and bluntly, "You’re alone".  Say that there is no God, for argument’s sake. Even though there is actually no God with you when you are alone, it’s still a better feeling than actually feeling that you are completely and utterly by yourself in your pain."

     It sounds like you have psychological problems if you need an imaginary friend to talk to when you’re lone. Perhaps even social problems, as most normal lonely people find other lonely people and are then no longer lonely. To live in a land of make believe to make yourself feel good about yourself or your future/past is really pathetic.

    "Well, anyway, believe what you want to believe, but don’t make fun of others because your belief system is in contrast with theirs. "

     Simple scrutiny destroys your positions time and again. Its hard not to keep people from running head long off a logical cliff when you see whats waiting for them at the bottom. Try thinking for yourself, I know its hard to do when you’ve been spoon fed the answers, but you’ll be a better person for it.

  31. GameTrades says:

    Indeed 🙂  It is not that is it "fake" as it is "scripted".  They are actors and everything is planed and rehearsed.  The physical element is real, a lot of the hits are not.  Love how the ring is almost as bouncy as those inflatable "Moon Bounce" attractions at every local fair.

  32. GameTrades says:

    @Derovius:

    " No, wrong yet again. The evidence points them in said direction, and they plod along in search of the answer. They didn’t sit in the lab one day, flip a quarter and say, "Heads for string-whatsit, tails for M-whatsit"."

    Ummm…sorry.  Perhaps you should do a bit of research.  It is almost just like that.  Here is a simple breakdown of the most glaring issues with ST:  http://www.misunderstooduniverse.com/String_Theory_Death_of_Physics.htm

    Most interesting bits?

    "In order to make string theory work on paper our four dimensional real world had to be increased to eleven dimensions. Since these extra dimensions can never be verified, they must be believed with religious-like faith — not science."

    "The only prediction ever made by string theory — the strength of the cosmological constant — was off by a factor of 55, which is the difference in magnitude of a baseball and our sun."

    "String theory with its undetectable extra dimensions; its unprovable-predictions on how these dimensions behave; its hopeful implications that there will be observable phenomena in the unseen future; its incessant invocations for Einstein’s belated approval; and its promise of a unified theory of everything, invokes the same basic elements of faith of every other earthly religion."

    More from this 2005 article: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18825293.700

    or this: http://www.geocities.com/drratiram_sharma/StringTheoriesReappraisal.htm

    Even Michio Kaku, one of my favorite physicists (definitely recommend his book Parallel Worlds), admits that many of his theories are, at present, untestable and, at present, unproven.

    Lastly, the concept of negative proof applies when discussing anything that is not directly testable with an observed outcome, including the existence of God, a God or a Higher Being.  It does not prove nor disprove its existence.

    I am not here to assert that there is or is not a God or god.  I have my own beliefs and they are just that, my own.  There are many atrocities in the world that are committed in the name of religion, politics, greed, power, money, etc.  Religion does not have the market cornered on crazy use of it.  The people that use the name of God to justify their actions are just as arrogant, boastful and misguided as those they attack.  To lump all people that follow a faith as stupid, ignorant sheep is just as close minded and ignorant.

    I am not trying to change your mind or your belief, whatever that may be.  And this brings us back to the original intent of this particular thread of discussion.  I don’t believe anyone here asked for your guidance or opinion regarding their beliefs and you have been, thus far, unable to hold a civilized discussion regarding this.  I have found over the years that people like yourself, with a deep seated resentment to something such as this, have been damaged or hurt in a profound way and lash out like a child.  That, or they just crave attention by taking a contrary position.

    Believe what you will. Just keep it to yourself unless someone asks you to judge them.

     

  33. Derovius says:

    "The universe exists. No natural laws can fully explain the origins. Why did the big bang occur? What is the purpose of the universe? How did the pre-creation ‘stuff’ that would become the universe come into existence? Science is incapable of answering these questions. At the moment, we must choose to believe that somehow, the universe came into being by itself, or that it had help from a supernatural power."

     So, in response to a very complex problem your solution is to make up an answer, call it truth and move on? People who do not seek to solve problems, and become sedentary in their views on the natural of reality do not progress. If the world was filled with people like you, we’d still be living by candle light and horse-drawn carriage. To invent and advance is to question.

    "The universe is aesthetically pleasing. There is no scientific reason for mountains, hills, space, etc. to be beautiful. They imply a sense of the artistic, of the creative intelligence behind the formation of Earth."

     Aesthetics are a human response to stimuli, nothing more. As is the concept of art. Given what you’ve said thus far, I can only speculate you have absolutely no background in science whatsoever, as you continue to apply humanistic traits to that which is not human. Science is not "happy" or "sad", and patterns are not "beautiful" or "ugly". If the numbers show a consistent mathematical relationship, there is a pattern given the context.

    "The universe is very damn useful. What are the odds that a universe where mankind can forge a machine that lets us have this conversation across miles and miles of wires exists? The inherent usefulness of the physical world implies an benevolent intelligence behind the laws of science. If the world is a product of random chance interactions between atoms, then the very fact that science has laws is a nearly indescrible coinicidence. Or a miracle. Which stands the test of reason better?"

     So now your deity invented the internet for you to? I’ll stop there, the level of stupid is overpowering.

    "Christianity specifically has this defense: Eleven laymen and a tax collector followed a Jewish prophet named Joshua, called Jesus in Greek. Jesus was arrested, excecuted by the Roman govenrment and buried. Over the course of the next century, thousands upon thousands of Jews and non-Jews claimed that he had risen from the dead. Many of these people suffered persecution. Thus we know that they believed in the ressurection sincerely. Many of the desciples of Jesus personally suffered persecution but did not recant their beliefs, thus we can be certain beyond reasonable* doubt that they weren’t lying about the ressurection."

     Because stubborn, pig-headed people under torture tell only the truth. We should inform the authorities, if they torture people almost to death we can do away with courts all together. Your foolish logic is a testiment to religious people everywhere and I thank you for providing me with evidence of your irrational thought processes.

    "-One, some party took the body of Jesus so that the disciples couldn’t do the same and claim he had ressurected. This is unlikely because that party would have undoubtedly presented said body when the new religion began to spread."

     Or they conned the followers by taking the body themselves to making a highly unplausible event take place? Desperate people are psychologically incapable of being disuaded of their beliefs when they are desperately attached to them. Having your so-called messiah nailed to a dark age torture device and die of exposure sounds like a desperate occurance, yes?

    "Two, Jesus wasn’t dead despite two floggings, six hours on a cross, and a spear through his side. The Roman soldiers who excecuted him were too incompetent to make sure he was dead. Putting him dark cave with a rock in front of the door somehow revived him."

     Lol, the human body is a magnificant example of natures strive for perfection, the amount of punishment that the body can sustain before it systems start to fail would boggle your simple little mind.

    "-He actually came back to life."

     No, no he didn’t, sorry.

  34. nekusagi says:

    No, no, I’m not new to the internet at all (plus I’m involved in fandom, so I have lots of experience with e-peen abuse), but I’ve never seen it THIS bad before.

     

    I mean, there’s trolling, and then there’s TROLLING.

  35. Derovius says:

     You hide from the discussion only to appear and add that? You could have saved yourself the embarassment and just stayed quiet you know…

  36. Derovius says:

     So you’re going to ignore an entire field and the obvious benefits of using embryonic stem cells because of their source? Thousands of people die pointless everyday, but the cure for cancer or severe neurological diseases will cost too much. Get over yourself.

  37. Derovius says:

     The only way to support their beliefs is to push the notion that people who do not believe are bad/evil/etc. So, there is fundementally no possible way for their to be a mutual respect between a religious and non-religious person when their own rules demonize the other party. In addition, these groups perpetrate what is tantemount to terrorist acts against people whose beliefs are not their own. I draw your attention to that church that pickets funerals with anti-gay this and that, and how they are happy soldiers are dead. There are also the people who murder abortion doctors, set said clinics on fire, equally applicable terrorist acts on stem cell facilities.

     I could go on and on with how absurd the notion of mutual respect is in regards to religion v. non-religion. I will leave you with this: cite me a source where an athiest has burned a church to the ground, killed a priest/rabbi/etc.? I cannot think of a single incident where a non-religious person has commited such terrible acts.

  38. Derovius says:

     There is much truth in this statement. Roman society also had a good deal of homosexuality in it, as did the Persian and many other ancient societies.

  39. Derovius says:

     Thanks for the useless information Austin, who knows what we’d do without people like you maning google and wikipedia for us.

  40. DeepThorn says:

    In the end, it really doesn’t matter.  It is a dated system, like our education system, and just a status thing for the ego driven IMO. [Many doctors like to think they are God…]  It is like, woo hoo, you spent 8 years in college "learning" about art, so you are a doctor now since you have a phd. 

    It used to be a title where people saved lives or made great achievements, but now we have plastic surgeons, and I would not say they are doing anything important other than the ones doing reconstructive surgery to those injured.  Of course I don’t like big tits, so I wouldn’t think there is something important to it.  In your examples, they were titles of importants due to services, other than Lady for the more recent terms which was more like Mr. Miss. or Mrs.  I think Mr. and Mrs. is all we really need title wise.

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  41. DeepThorn says:

    I just claim we are all idiots, because in 50, 100, and 500 years everything will be so different that we just can’t even begin to get it.  I just enjoy the debate.  I like to debate many things, just religion is one of the most touchy for people.  Might as well get people more comfortable about debating about it.  I learn something new every time though, and that is what is important to me as an Agnostic.

    I think that if there is a God, he would have to be pretty selfish to want people to praise him like people do.  I would think that he would want them to just be good people and for them to achieve great things in life.  If there is a god of any sort, I think that he would be in a plane of existence that is just now becoming known to us through m-brane theory or one we have no idea about at all.

    In reality, that would most likely mean another being from a different dimension is the god people are looking to, and everything claimed as an act of God is natural events or than maybe the existence of our universe.  Another theory is that we are all virtual people in a virtual world that real man kind has created.  Everything is real to us because we are simulations that are there for testing or entertainment, and only a few people if any are real.  (I don’t remember what quote I read that that idea is based off of, but it was a pretty interesting concept.)

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  42. DeepThorn says:

    There has still been more religious wars and deaths in those wars than any other type of war.  If you are as dumb as Palin, then you think this war in Iraq is a religious war instead of an idiotic president not getting solid proof of anything needed to go into such a war.

    Religious people are more likely to be racist, sexist, and/or against different sexual preferences than non-religious people.  (I am just against stupid people, no matter the sex or race of the person.)  Both religious and non-religious people are about equally against people of different belief.  Christians stick out in the US as being against each other because of the insane variety of sub religions in the group that were created in the US, though they like to act like they are doing things the way they have been done all along. (Cults…  gotta love them.)

    I have never heard of an Atheist cult that committed mass suicide, but religious cults do every now and then in the world.  I have never heard of an Atheist terrorist group either, but I am sure there is some of some sort, but far more rare than religious based terrorist groups.

    Bisexuality isn’t that new.  The current take on it culturally is new, but Greeks and other ancient civilizations  experimented with bisexuality and never named it to my knowledge, same with homosexuality.  It just wasn’t divided up until recently.

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  43. mootyslayer says:

    Lol wow. Because he has different beliefs then you means he has a sad life. Good of you to judge someone like that. Guess you need to judge me cause most of what he is saying I agree with.

  44. mootyslayer says:

    Lol Well sorry to burst your bubble but I am in the same mindset. Stopped beliving in God and the word of the bible many years ago. I am not a big fan of religion. I am not Pandralisk. But I suppose I have many of the same views. His were alot more extreme as I really don’t care what other people believe. What’s in my own head is good enough for me. But what other people believe is there own business.

    I do not think any one is a idiot for believing in something different then what I believe. I have many religious friends who at first could not believe that I did not beleive in the word of Jesus or follow the bible. I have discussed it with them alot and in the end we are still friends who believe in other things.

    I tend to roll my eyes at the more hardcore religious people that tend to tell me that its the only belief that is possible and that not believing it is the wrong choice for my life. But who are they to say whats good for my life?

    I am completly happy with my life. I don’t need all the answers to life questions. I just want to enjoy my life as it comes and whatever happens after happens.

     

  45. mootyslayer says:

    "Respect garners respect. I respect your views, I simply ask you respect mine in turn."

     

    Thank you. I was raised a Christian as well but simply stopped belieing in that stuff a long time ago. I don’t believe in God or the word of the Bible. There are many who I have talked to who are shocked by this as if there is only one way to think and that the only true way is through the bible. I respect others people beliefs even Jack Thompsons. But not everyone believes in the same thing.

     

  46. Michael Chandra says:

    You’re not a stupid head, I’m a stupid head right? Genius.

    Hm, that seems to ring bells… Oh right, it’s the way you always argue against people, they’re dumb, you’re not. Would you perhaps be a fan of Jackieboy? You behave quite similar.

  47. HellJester7 says:

    @ Derovius

     

    The way you’re acting, it only proves that you worship a god with the same fervor as the people you are calling fools: you insult them because the god they worship is not the one you do; you try to dissuade them from believing into their god and try to make them believe in yours, even if they are content with their belief and no one suffers from them believing in their god.  The god you worship is Logic.

    I believe in God, I’m proud of it, and there’s no way you can stop me from doing so while you continue to act the way you are.  I really, really don’t think humans normally act purely on logic alone.  We love, hate, and feel a plethora of emptions that can and will make us make illogical decisions instead of logical ones.  I agree to some degree, that we need logic.  But as humans, our ability to be illogical is part of our nature; throwing this away and making everyone act only on logic will take away what makes us human, and make us just like every other animal in the world.  Insulting us won’t make us say that you’re right.  We believe in God or multiple gods, and as long as we don’t harm anyone or try to justify immoral and evil acts with the words "I’m doing God’s will", we have the right to believe any way we want to, in any god, whether God, logic, or otherwise. 

    I’m a Catholic, but I don’t try to make everyone believe in my God. I have always seen different religions as the ways humainity has tried and will try to see God, not with mine being superior for such-and-such reason; in addition to this, believing that there is no God is another way to see Him, just as not seeing is another way of viewing the world around you, in a sense.

    But to me, logic sounds like a cruel and cold thing to worship.  When you’re lonely, having God there with you to share your lonliness and your fears is a good feeling.  With logic, the only thing it can do is to tell you, plainly and bluntly, "You’re alone".  Say that there is no God, for argument’s sake. Even though there is actually no God with you when you are alone, it’s still a better feeling than actually feeling that you are completely and utterly by yourself in your pain.

    Well, anyway, believe what you want to believe, but don’t make fun of others because your belief system is in contrast with theirs. 

  48. Austin_Lewis says:

    I wonder how many they would find among self-proclaimed atheists.  After all, its the new pop-culture religion, just like cabbalah used to be.  It’s right up there with being a Wiccan.  All the coolest people are doing it.  Jackass.  Are you bisexual too?  Do you like to dress up in dark clothes and listen to the latest emo bands too?  Do you write shitty poems about how bad the world makes you feel?

    Your inane belief that people with religion are less intelligent than you is just that; inane.  You look down on people you don’t agree with or understand, that’s an intelligent way to live.  Sure, there are some people who should always be looked down upon; extremists, for example (it’s not hard to hate Falwell or bin Laden).  But to say that religion alone caused those people, instead of parenting, personal problems, and just a good dash of overall crazy, is just senseless, which I suppose could sum up most of your arguments.

  49. Austin_Lewis says:

    Really? Because honestly, I find that more atheists try to force their world view on people during conversations than the other way around. 

    But that’s fine, it’s become the pop-culture religion, just like bisexuality has become the pop-culture sexual orientation.

  50. Austin_Lewis says:

    Actually, Harry Houdini (that’s the correct spelling by the way, lrn2google jackass) wasn’t some cheap street-performer like Chris Angel or David Blaine.  He performed amazing escapes that stressed the body in every way, and supposedly he could even hold his breath for three minutes because he had a special training regimen including a bathtub filled with ice and ice cold water.  He was aman physically fit and mentally fit, able to pick any lock and undo any knot, and that mix of intelligence and agility made him the greatest magician ever seen.

  51. DeepThorn says:

    God can be spelled as God or god depending on understanding, belief or laziness.  This is due to the numerous number of gods in ancient religions that makes god not only a name but also a title such as graphic designer or physicist.  When we start capitalizing career titles, more non-believers will start capitalizing it as God instead of god. 

    If the person understands of it as a title instead of a name, then it is god in any situation even as your god or my god.  If the person understands it as the name, then it would be God.

    I would feel very weird typing, "Megan Fox is one hell of a hot Actress."  Though Microsoft Word grammar check doesnt dispute it for me, so maybe…  I claim that god has no name though, or that we are not told his original name ever because it does not matter, though according to Christians Jesus is his Earth name.  Now saying jesus would be disrespectful and incorrect, because that is definitely a name, though lord and god are titles which do not require capitalization, but it is typically done as so in respect.  I do capitalize Microsoft Word though, so I guess that is disrespectful in a way, but it just depends on the understanding of the use.

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  52. DeepThorn says:

    It isnt that they are stupid, it is that they have flawed logic.  I think we all agree that Jack has flawed logic, and that he is definitely smart, you have to be to even try to begin to explain his flawed logic, but we would say he is stupid because of his flawed logic. 

    It just does not compute.  It is much like 0.3 with 3 remaining (which is 1/3) plus 0.6 with 6 remaining (which is 2/3), it equals 0.9 with 9 remaining and 1.  So does 0.9 with 9 remaining exist? or is it really 1.

    [I do not know why my brain loves this little thing, but it seems to be something I always revisit ever few years.]

    The believers closed off to fully questioning their religion to the point that they say that the Noah flood story and the Sumerian flood story are not the same, or that many other stories in the bible were not taken from else where I would say were narrow minded.  Then the reality that man has so distorted religion in a way even from the gathering of stories for the new and testament, that it is illogical to follow any religion, especially based off of Christianity.  I would follow the Jewish belief before the Christian belief any day, but still I would poke and prod it to find every hole I can to try to figure out where truths lye and lies lye.

    I just want science to dig into religion for science to prove the truths and falsehoods of religion because of the extremist groups, mainly Pentecostals in my experience, that so strongly believe in such things as a global flood, 6000 year old universe, and dispute evolution.  Then the governments to deal with Scientology, and societies to deal with violence, local and terrorist.

    As the same time, there are idiots out there that still think the Earth is flat.  So I guess morons will always exist even with scientific proof, but at least scientific proof of things destroys their numbers.  I don’t care as much about other Christian groups that stay the hell out of the way of scientific research.  They can go on their happy way, but for the dweebs that hinder research and our education system, by getting it to teach intelligent design instead of evolution. There is real scientific evidence that proves evolution but not intelligent design, and those people make be blow my top because of the waste in time of proving research to the dumbest of people, with their stupid flawed logic, like the people who believe that Earth is flat.

    In the end, isn’t flawed logic the same as non-intelligent?  Because that flawed logic affects the inner workings of their entire understanding of everything, and understanding is what intelligence is, isn’t it?  In the end, I claim that we all have flawed logic, but to different degrees, and that we are all non-intelligent, and that science will eventually pull the people who have slightly flawed logic closer with even less flawed logic, while having them outcast people with extremely flawed logic, because it isn’t worth our time to try to rationalize things to them. 

    Just like why a more intelligent species wouldn’t deal with us because we are so far intellectually beneath them, we wouldn’t deal with teaching ants what we know.  I think the human race may one day separate between the ignorant with flawed logic and the more intellectually superior with far less flawed logic.

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  53. DeepThorn says:

    I have to go with Derovius here.

    The bible is the theft of older stories reworked to suit a purpose in lesson, not reality.  So I would say that it is a fairy-tale, because it is exaggerated stories that can be scientifically disproved, especially the idea of a global flood, which there is no record of within the time line of those stories and geological evidence.

    Hindsight is an amazing thing, the problem is religious text changes to suit the times and social acceptance, and it is ignored that those changes were ever made or they are discounted because of Jesus dying for sin, but not others, with no record of what one he did and did not die for.  There were bibles back in the US slave era that said it was against God’s will for a black and a white to have relations even.  Some churches in the hick sticks still preach it.

    The key thing is that things have never been as well recorded and researched as they are today, which brings debate because of the difference in knowledge of those who researched it and those who just believe what they were taught.  It is amazing how EXTREMELY few people go back to the original text of their own book no matter what language it may be in, and find people who have made direct translations.  Once you do that, you will realize that half of the stuff said in the bible is full of it, and so general that you can rework it to say whatever you want.

    It is also amazing that the US is one of the most religious countries in the world, yet the majority of the civilized world is pulling away from religion like a bad habit that they found a drug to cure… and boy do people like their drugs for quick fixes.

    I like m-brane theory….

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  54. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    Uhh… Is it wrong to say hey to your friends?

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  55. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    That he is. TROLL ALERT!!!

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  56. Gabriel Celesta says:

    Well, Derovius, if we’re not worth the effort, then please leave this site and do not post here ever again.

  57. Gabriel Celesta says:

    Yeah, when I first saw that "Thompson sez God made stocks fall" remark, I immediately thought, "No, Jack, God didn’t make those stocks fall; he did get you disbarred."

  58. Father Time says:

    Whatever you do don’t mistake it for the grave next to it *Jack Thompson’s career*

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  59. Father Time says:

    I don’t think he’s gotten that bad but he’s certainly getting there at least in terms of logic (err a little bit).

    In an interview one of the WBC crazies said (paraphrasing), ‘Jesus said those who preached for him would be hated, and since we’re hated a lot we must be doing it right’.

    Ignoring for a second the horrendous logic, I wouldn’t be surprised if JT thought something similar.

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  60. nekusagi says:

    And your "I’m an athiest and therefore I’m better than all of you" crap isn’t?

    Seriously, do you have anything better to do in this post than make snarky comments to attempt to enlarge your e-peen?

  61. Adamas Draconis says:

    *Hands JDKJ a shovel and points at a grave marked "Jack Thompson’s humanity"* Go get it big boy.

    Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

  62. hayabusa75 says:

    Right there with you, manta.  I was stuck at DMV two weeks ago and this born-again Christian sat next to me and started grilling me about my life.  He proceeded to pick my life apart and show me how my agnostic ways were preventing me from reaching my potential.  So, I started asking HIM questions, and the answers were all the same: "It’s God’s plan."

    Why do people get away with murder?

    Why do innocents die?

    Why are there so many believers suffering in poverty and destitution?

    Etc, etc, etc…

    So yeah, I totally feel you on the whole high-horse thing.

    "There is no sin except stupidity." – Oscar Wilde

  63. hayabusa75 says:

    That’s the point he’s trying to make, and I happen to agree with him.  You’ve got too many looney toons out there making life tough for the rest of you.

    "There is no sin except stupidity." – Oscar Wilde

  64. Adamas Draconis says:

    Dero, believe it or not, not everybody who believes in a diety is incapable of thinking for themselves. It was me thinking for myself that let me to my path. And yes, like you I was raised as a Christian, it just didn’t feel right for me. As a friend of mine once put it. "If new data enhances (or at least doesn’t harm) an organism’s chances for survival, that data could be considered as "True" and accepted. If however the data causes harm to the organism, the data must be considered "False" and discarded or the organism dies." AKA "If it works, it is true."

    In other words. Your path is whats "True" for you, but might not be "True" for others. The same problem for most religions is that they have those that believe that ONLY their path is the "True" one.

    Respect garners respect. I respect your views, I simply ask you respect mine in turn.

    Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

  65. hayabusa75 says:

    I think it’s more likely she likes the attention.

    "There is no sin except stupidity." – Oscar Wilde

  66. hayabusa75 says:

    Hey, you shouldn’t mock his intellectual insight.  Not until you’ve seen some evidence of it, at least.

    "There is no sin except stupidity." – Oscar Wilde

  67. hayabusa75 says:

    …Shadow’s?  Is him saying "Hi, Amy!" nearly everytime you appear that big an event?

    "There is no sin except stupidity." – Oscar Wilde

  68. Chaltab says:

    Okay, here goes:

    The universe exists. No natural laws can fully explain the origins. Why did the big bang occur? What is the purpose of the universe? How did the pre-creation ‘stuff’ that would become the universe come into existence? Science is incapable of answering these questions. At the moment, we must choose to believe that somehow, the universe came into being by itself, or that it had help from a supernatural power.

    The universe is aesthetically pleasing. There is no scientific reason for mountains, hills, space, etc. to be beautiful. They imply a sense of the artistic, of the creative intelligence behind the formation of Earth.

    The universe is very damn useful. What are the odds that a universe where mankind can forge a machine that lets us have this conversation across miles and miles of wires exists? The inherent usefulness of the physical world implies an benevolent intelligence behind the laws of science. If the world is a product of random chance interactions between atoms, then the very fact that science has laws is a nearly indescrible coinicidence. Or a miracle. Which stands the test of reason better?

    Christianity specifically has this defense: Eleven laymen and a tax collector followed a Jewish prophet named Joshua, called Jesus in Greek. Jesus was arrested, excecuted by the Roman govenrment and buried. Over the course of the next century, thousands upon thousands of Jews and non-Jews claimed that he had risen from the dead. Many of these people suffered persecution. Thus we know that they believed in the ressurection sincerely. Many of the desciples of Jesus personally suffered persecution but did not recant their beliefs, thus we can be certain beyond reasonable* doubt that they weren’t lying about the ressurection.

    This leaves us with several posibilities.

    -One, some party took the body of Jesus so that the disciples couldn’t do the same and claim he had ressurected. This is unlikely because that party would have undoubtedly presented said body when the new religion began to spread.

    -Two, Jesus wasn’t dead despite two floggings, six hours on a cross, and a spear through his side. The Roman soldiers who excecuted him were too incompetent to make sure he was dead. Putting him dark cave with a rock in front of the door somehow revived him.

    -Three, there was no ressurection and dozens of followers had a mass hallucination that convinced all of them beyond any doubt that a ressurection had occured. Conveniently, the body also dissapeared to help convince them of this delusion.

    -He actually came back to life.

    *If you want to be unreasonable, you could claim that the disciples of Jesus all agreed to lie about his ressurection and start a new religion around it in order to get revenge against those who sentenced Jesus to die. In which case, you would have to concede that their revenge worked flawlessly and they should be commended for a tremendously successful Ganatos Roulette. But like I said. Unreasonable.

  69. Derovius says:

     If religious people were harmless, I would have no problem with this. They are however a roadbump in the path of progress for fields like stem cell research and cloning. They can be as blind to science as they want, but get the hell out of the way.

  70. Derovius says:

    "Correct.  Including your assertion that religion is based on fairy tales."

     To imply that the contents of the christian’s bible is somehow based in reality is to admit to incest, at the very least. If its not the Adam and Eve thing, its Noah’s Ark. Quite frankly, to think that every woman I look on in a sexual fashion is somehow related to me is a little disturbing.

    "Just as we mere humans still can understand the vastness of space nor the inner workings of our feeble minds.  And, BTW, observing the subsequent after effects is exactly what has allowed us a better understanding of our known universe.  The Big Bang theory is based on the faith that our assumptions are correct.  In my mind, this is the same faith that someone may put into a deity.  There is no "proof", just observation of subsequent after effects."

     Once again, I need to correct your use of language; there is no faith, or belief in science. Ideas are proposed and tested. The religious parallels have no such trial and error attitude, their ideas are 100% from the moment they hit the paper. If you believe anything else, you are not following your religion as it was laid out. Is a simple concept like this that hard for you to understand?

    "So, 2000 years from now, will scientists refute the discoveries we now take as implied fact?  Hindsight is an amazing thing.  Truth is the truth?  Define truth!  If it’s based on what can be observed, then the truth is only as meaningful as the moment it was observed.  In research, we have a base of faith, the hypothesis.  Just because we proved our theory does not mean it will always hold true, but we have faith it does."

     2000 years? No, trying 300 years for Newton’s laws; mind you its not refutation but rather considering an oversimplification of the truth. Such is why the quantum momentum equation now has been adjusted to account for low velocities. As you said yourself, truth is truth, such is why when two individuals (or more) come upon the same conclusion, one can consider the reality of the phenomenon to be a shared experience, thus making it true. Yet again, here I am correct your misuse of the word faith. A scientist has no faith in his hypothesis, thats why its a hypothesis. To guess and check is the extension beyond faith, for faith stops at guess.

    "And I am not changing the fundementals.  For example, you would be surprised to see that Orthodox religions actually welcoming the questioning/discussion of the church.  Seems that you are the one who wants everything cut and dry, right or wrong, true or false.  Sorry to break it to you, but very few things in life are."

     Of course they are, their stories have been disproven and made their lies much less believable. Now they are trying to realign themselves to hold onto their long-held power. Everything in life is right or wrong, true or false. Even the most complex situation can be broken down into singular, binary responses of yes/no, right/wrong, true/false. The issue lies in the complexity and how to pull it apart.

    "Or, the ordering is so complex and layered that we can’t understand it yet.  One could argue that only the mind of God, or a God, could put this together.  The fact that we see spinning of quarks in pairs, in opposite directions, in separate locations demonstrates that there is a connection that we don’t fully understand yet.  Or we have faith that there is an explanation. "

     No, not really. Order in and of itself suggests benevolance, chaos suggests chance occurance on a massive scale. If something put a plan in motion to create something, there is a traceable pattern returning us to the root of said plan. Its absence suggests a lack of planning. The universe is about balance, pairing is the ultimate reason why quarks do not occur naturally, why electrons flow between species to obtain balance and therefore react said species, etc. All I see are self-checking systems of reality, there is no divinity here. There is simply no need for balance in a system guided by a divine force, seeing as the addition of said divine force would in and of itself been to be balanced in reality.

    "As for string theory, I think it is EXTREMELY interesting and it is a unification theory that, on the surface, sounds reasonable (and it is VERY cool to think of the possibilities).  The FACT is, we just don’t know, but theoretical physicists have faith that they are moving in the right direction."

     No, wrong yet again. The evidence points them in said direction, and they plod along in search of the answer. They didn’t sit in the lab one day, flip a quarter and say, "Heads for string-whatsit, tails for M-whatsit".

  71. Mattie says:

    It shouldn’t matter to you so much. I’m a Christian, and I will continute to whorship and believe in God because it makes me happy.

  72. Kincyr says:

    in any case it’s just fighting fire with fire

    …figuratively speaking

    岩「…Where do masochists go when they die?」

  73. Derovius says:

     The title of Doctor is not House’s alone, there are legitimate incarnations of said professionals. Such is why I did not go off on a diatribe about you capitalizing Jesus, given that this is the alias the jewish prophet used. From what I understand, historical records back up the notion that there was a cultist matching his description and actions around the time in question.

  74. Derovius says:

    "The problem with your argument is it’s inherrant fallacy and utter lack of capacity or room to reason."

     Thank you for making my point, my argument is fallible, it can be disproven, so stop whining about being persecuted and disprove me.

    ""I demand proof that I am wrong" goes your argument. The problem is that whenever anyone uses this particular argument they have no intention of being proven wrong."

     Lets find out, give it a stab, so to speak. All I see is you stalling, like your lack of evidence will suddenly be a nonissue if you wait long enough.

    "Nothing that is said to you, or anyone, who resorts to it is that you can’t be proven wrong in your own mind. It wouldn’t matter what you were shown because you’ve completely closed your mind to the very possibility that you are, in fact, wrong."

     I think some sort of profound evidence there is a white-bearded father figure looking down on me would be quite convincing. The sad truth is that you have no evidence, and simply refuse to admit to that fact, much less what it implies.

    "A fool demanding proof of his foolishness, as I said previously."

     You statement says nothing to the topic at hand. Show me evidence of your deity, or admit that you have none. Its really that simple.

  75. SimonBob says:

    He only believes in one god?  What a lunatic!  My pantheon and I are having a good chuckle at his narrow-minded monotheism.  (Except for the evil god in the back, who I can only assume is continuing with his nefarious scheme to have me die of old age.)


    The Mammon Industry

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