A firm which alleges that Nintendo and Microsoft infringed on its nearly two decade-old parental control technology has sued the video game console makers, along with 36 other corporations, in federal court.
While, oddly enough, PlayStation manufacturer Sony is not a defendant in the case brought by Guardian Media Technologies, LTD., a number of other high profile firms are, including Apple, Amazon, Best Buy, Costco, Dell, Target, Tivo, Wal-Mart and Overstock.com. The companies were sued on December 23rd in the Central District of California.
Of the suit, Courthouse News writes:
Guardian Media Technologies claims 38 major electronics firms and retailers... violated its patented "parental control" video censoring programs. Guardian says the patents in suit are expired, but the defendants made, imported, distributed or induced patent violations before they did expire.
GamePolitics has obtained Guardian Media's 78-page complaint which, although not specific as to the alleged offenses, contains the following:
Each defendant has substantial contacts... including, but not limited to the manufacture, sale and/or distribution of DVD players, televisions and/or computers capable of playing DVDs and/or receiving television and/or video programs.
At issue are a pair of 1990 patents for Guardian Media's "Selective Playing System" and "Automatic Censorship of Video Programs."
UPDATE: Ars Technica's John Timmer has the lengthy backstory to the case, including the reason why Sony isn't named as a defendant.
Comments
American greed hard at work; always looking for an angle to get money they aren't due.
Funny you would classify it as american greed considering this type of thing happens all over the world. I hate it too though, it must be because I'm puerto rican cause obviously an american would love it right?
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While it happens everywhere, the american patent system has made it esp prevelent here. The burden of proof is on the defense, it is handled diffenrlty then normal crivil trials (the USPO has juristiction over the validity of a patent, not the Judicial system.. so all a judge can do is say if something is covered by the patent), and the low end cost of defending against even a single patent suit is on the order of 3 million.
I would not be surprised if, for any piece of software or electronics you buy in the US, at least 30-50% of it's cost is due to the patent system at this point.
I agree this particular problem is most prevelant in the US but my arguement is simply greed is global, not american in nature ;)
but in dero's defense maybe he meant that: very specifically patent abuse greed is american in nature as opposed to simple greed being american in nature. I doubt that's what he meant though.
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*nod* patent greed specificly is how I read it initially, but looking back yeah, I agree he was probably talking about americans being greedy (or specificly wanting what they are not due). there does seem to be an idea that americans are esp bad about entitlement, which there might actually be some truth to today.
I've gotten the impression that social shifts over the last 60 years or so (starting with the boomers) have built up a bit of an entitlement generation. It is a reinterpertation of 'the american dream' and has morphed from 'anyone can get ahead' to 'I deserve to be ahead' or the classic 'my child is special' stuff.
It is starting to fade though. GenX and GenY are reversing the trend but we have to wait till the boomer's dominance over culture fades.
And when were you going to point out that Puerto Rico is a US territory?
So wait, essentially, they're freaking out because consoles HAVE parental controls? Wow, the games industry just can't win...
---You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
Closer to that they want the monopoly on the "we created the parental control system and we want our cut!"
It might be, sort of, like my creating a Life & Death III, saying that I can build on the old L&D I & II because Software Toolworks no longer holds the copyright but someone from the company popping up and saying I created it BEFORE the copyright ran out and they want their cut.
Not an exact match, but pretty close.
Or maybe someone comes along and creates a MSDOS 10.01. Does Microsoft still have copyright on MSDOS itself?
Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl
It's like someone putting a patent on "a device to help reduce injury in an automobile crash"
Does Microsoft still have copyright on MSDOS itself?
Was MSDOS made after 1922?
i really hate to do it but...
/FACEPALM
Haha, I love that one.
Do you have to put pics up on imageshack before you can get'm to show up on this site?
Tea and cake or death! Tea and cake or death! Little Red Cook-book! Little Red Cook-book!
Open up a new tab, find picture, drag and drop into comment field...real simple.
Make sure the comment field is visible before you drag and drop...you can't scroll while dragging and dropping
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"Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon
Just another patent troll looking to make a easy buck...I mean, how vague can you get "Automatic censorship of video programs"
Can this be called "patent squatting"? It sounds like they're just registering patents for the hopes of claiming a lot of ideas to be their own, even though they may not actually act upon those ideas.
GameSnooper
Ugh, patent trolls piss me off. Don't that have to provide proof that they've been actually trying to create the technology they are claiming all these companies stole?
I want to patent "a method from which water vapor in the air is condensed into droplets of water and falls from the sky". That way every time God/Thor/insert deity of choice here makes it rain, he/she owes me royalties.
Tea and cake or death! Tea and cake or death! Little Red Cook-book! Little Red Cook-book!
How about "a method of transportation utilizing muscles, tendons, and bones"
Everyone owes me royalties!
That's good, but those that are in wheel chairs won't have to pay you a dime.
How about "a method in which one inhales oxygen and exhales carbon dioxcide"?
Pay up.
Tea and cake or death! Tea and cake or death! Little Red Cook-book! Little Red Cook-book!
"A process in which o2 is converted into co2"
I win!
"a process in which individuals or companies can protect their rights by communicating their idea onto a medium and have it filed with an official government branch"
"A method by which very small units of matter are held together by strong chemical and/or covalent bonds"
"A method in which things exist as opposed to non-existence"
Man, God's got all the good patents.
Tea and cake or death! Tea and cake or death! Little Red Cook-book! Little Red Cook-book!
" a method in which food is converted into their base elements and absorbed by different systems"
Is this legal? Wouldn't you need permission from whoever has the patent on 'food' to do this?
He's currently in a legal battle with the guy who has the patent for "a method in which sunlight is converted from light energy to chemical energy".
Tea and cake or death! Tea and cake or death! Little Red Cook-book! Little Red Cook-book!
Great! Meanwhile, we all starve!
You can eat, but it'll cost you 50 cents per bite...burps are 25 cents each and you must stick this tube up your butt to collect the methane gas...
Yeah, I'm pretty proud of that one. :)
Tea and cake or death! Tea and cake or death! Little Red Cook-book! Little Red Cook-book!
"a method by which humans express thoughts and/or ideas through sound"
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Debates are like merry go rounds Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.
No, they don't - that's part of why people hate patent trolls. Patents are meant to promote innovation by giving protection to an inventor's IP, but patent trolls stifle innovation by not using that IP but not allowing anyone else to do so.
I can see this going badly for Guardian Media, though. They're trying to extort money from some huge companies (that are armed with legions of elite lawyers most likely) using some vague-sounding patents (though the patents could be more substantial than they sound - hard to say without reading them.) You can count on one of these companies trying to invalidate the patent outright, and if they succeed then Guardian is left with nothing.
Nope, there is no requirement saying that they had to try to build the thing, or that they even told anyone about it.
The legal burden is on companies that was to build a device to look through all existing patents and see if thier design infringes on them.
It gets even worse when you take into account submarine patents. Those are cases where you start the patent process with idea A, stall, wait for someone to come up with prodect B that is similiar to A, then change A to B. Infringement is figured from the original filing date, NOT when the particular section that is infringed upon was added/edited.
ya, this is what i hate about our patent system. Enforcement begins at A but is defined by B where A happened in the year 1995 and B is written up in the year 2007. wtf?!? what genius came up with that idea?
The US patent system has more sploits than GoW2.
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Patent troll or not, they're still taking on two companies that have legions of warrior lawyers more than able to hand them their own buttocks. Microsoft can buy out the devil and Nintendo can slap you in the face THAT hard...
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The statement below is false. The statement above is true.
Don't forget Apple. They ain't exactly light-weights either.
Tea and cake or death! Tea and cake or death! Little Red Cook-book! Little Red Cook-book!
Doesn't seem like a very bright move really. Imagine the state of their coffers when all 38 of these companies win and sue to recoup their legal fees.
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I'm not under the affluence of incohol as some thinkle peep I am. I'm not half as thunk as you might drink. I fool so feelish I don't know who is me, and the drunker I stand here, the longer I get.
and Wal-Mart, don't forget about them.
It could only be worse if they dragged Disney, and Mcdonald's into this.
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Debates are like merry go rounds Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.
Patent law is one of the few areas where being a big company with lots of lawyers probably will not help you. Patents were, in theory, designed to help the little guy stand up to big corperations and you can really see the effect in suits. Even completely bogus patents, it is cheaper for the big corp to settle and pay a fee. Fighting them is rarely worth it unless you want to throw money away.
Hoooo boy...
This isn't going to last very long, I don't see how this lawsuit has any merit on their parts. I never saw anything useful to parental controls anyway. If you can't monitor your kid in what they play, then you shouldn't give them a gaming unit to begin with.
That's how I feel about it though.
Amy Levandoski
"This isn't going to last very long, I don't see how this lawsuit has any merit on their parts. I never saw anything useful to parental controls anyway. If you can't monitor your kid in what they play, then you shouldn't give them a gaming unit to begin with."
Golly, Alevan said there is no merit to their case, so I guess its over. I dare anyone of you to question the findings of someone with no legal experience or education.
"That's how I feel about it though."
This isn't Oprah, we don't care about your feelings. Post your opinion, supported or unsupported, and defend it.
Or you could just troll the board without making any reference to the story right Devorius?
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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
Derovious... was there ANY need for that.. actually just outright... strange.. outburst?
you have anger management issues.
and for the record. Alevan didnt say there is no merit to their case. Alevan said I don't see how this lawsuit has any merit on their parts. Subtle but important difference. And where did it make out that nobody should question that opinion, or that it was absolute, or based on legal experience or education?.. It didnt. It was just a personal comment that Alevan was perfectly entitled to make, that did no harm or damage to anybody.
Maybe you want to read more carefully before you jump in guns flaming for absolutely no reason.
Oh and before you say it, there is a difference to Alevan's opinion and yours, in that it was expressed constructively, raising valid issues (i.e. monitoring a kid's play), whereas yours was just plain criticism and insult, with no bearing to the actual story.
Grow up.
So you get pissed off when people disagree or make fun of your opinions...however when someone states their opinion and how they feel on it (which you do often) you harp on them? Pot, this is the kettle calling...I think you're black, mate.
I don't know about you and NovaBlack but I kind of started laughing that I angered him so... so greatly, and I didn't even say anything offense!
Thank you, though, to both of you.
Amy Levandoski
He was angry? I couldn't discern any emotion through the massive layers of retard...
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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
LOL Pwned
There have always been motherf*ckers, there will always be motherf*ckers, but what we can't do is let them control our motherf*cking lives. -John Oliver, December 1st, 2008
Apparently these two have magical internet powers, seeing as I've yet to find any normal person who can ascertain emotion from text alone. For all you know I'm sitting here giggling maniacly, or am sad and depressed.
Its these baseless generalizations that give me the ammunition to attack you. I suggest you correct yourselves accordingly.
There you go, we have been warned.
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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
I've been warned by the great Dero? Oh noes!
I promise to be a good girl from here on out!
(I still plan to try world domination though... mwahahaha...
)
/end sarcasm
Amy Levandoski
AE: Okay folks, that's enough.
LOL I think that halo is held up by your horns, Amy :)
AE: Enough.
" Its these baseless generalizations that give me the ammunition to attack you. I suggest you correct yourselves accordingly."
Holy crap he's summoning Jack Thompson.
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Debates are like merry go rounds Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.
Wow... you're right. That is somewhat very creepy.
BASELESS ARGUMENTS
BIAS
FUNDAMENTALISM
FLUKING THROUGH LAW SCHOOL
OUTRIGHT STUPIDITY
GO, THOMPSON!
By your powers combined, I am Jack Thompson!
(hmm... maybe not as funny as I expected...)
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XBOX LIVE GamerTag: Harry Miste | Steam ID: Harry Miste | PSN ID: HMiste | EYE. HAVE. YOU.
LOL I found it funny :P
AE: Let's not do that. Thanks.
There have always been motherf*ckers, there will always be motherf*ckers, but what we can't do is let them control our motherf*cking lives. -John Oliver, December 1st, 2008
Damn that was fast
keep up the good work AE
There have always been motherf*ckers, there will always be motherf*ckers, but what we can't do is let them control our motherf*cking lives. -John Oliver, December 1st, 2008
Grow up, mate.
AE: Pull back on the hostility a bit please.
There have always been motherf*ckers, there will always be motherf*ckers, but what we can't do is let them control our motherf*cking lives. -John Oliver, December 1st, 2008
Fine, fine
There have always been motherf*ckers, there will always be motherf*ckers, but what we can't do is let them control our motherf*cking lives. -John Oliver, December 1st, 2008
Could the same not be applied to your feelings on American greed too? If you are just gonna be an asshole, you could at least try not to be a hypocrite as well.
Parental Controls are a good "extra" device. As they say "every little bit helps".
If you have seatbelts in a car, why bother with airbags, or vice versa?
Why reinforce the bumpers or the frame?
Simple: You never know when you might need that extra little bit.
I don't use them either. But it's good to know they are there for those who feel they DO need them.
:: Shrugs ::
As to the lawsuit, it should be interesting to see what evidence they pull out to justify suing everybody and their 20th removed great, great, grandfather's long lost brother-n-law. :)
Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl
jackie thompson behind them and these idiots before them. Is it a wonder that game companies have made kneejerk reactions to protect themselves? This makes the DRM look sane in comparison (well sort of, kinda.. almost). Sigh. Methinks trolls (patent or otherwise) should be set to the flames.
And now someone's going to bring a suit against all media companies everywhere for "a system designed to limit device compatibility of audio media, visual media, video media, and combinations thereof."
"That's not ironic. That's justice."
http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/1/2/
I still say those two are in the closet; I've yet to see a single woman of any significance in any of their comics.
You don't read it very often do you?
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
MySpace Page: http://www.myspace.com/okceca
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1325674091
No, not really, they are pretty insufferable. ***
AE: Line crossed. Thread snipped.
Awww come on Andrew this troll is giving me giggle fits
There have always been motherf*ckers, there will always be motherf*ckers, but what we can't do is let them control our motherf*cking lives. -John Oliver, December 1st, 2008
Yeah, sorry about that. I hate to be the party pooper and to be honest, many of the comments were quite chuckle-worthy but the whole thing was off topic and nothing more than non-constructive, back and forth bickering .
Andrew Eisen
No worries, Andrew. This is a Troll I'd rather see banned. JT was more 1u1zy than deoVIRUS.
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"Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon
Amen
Awwe, I missed something, didn't I?
Well, having met both of them several times, and their wives, I would say that, once again Derovius strikes out.
...what the...?
"There is no sin except stupidity." - Oscar Wilde
Gabe is married to a women, this is him proposing, as for Tycho, he's to busy with the long necked birds to be gay
There have always been motherf*ckers, there will always be motherf*ckers, but what we can't do is let them control our motherf*cking lives. -John Oliver, December 1st, 2008
With this, and the Worlds.com BS that's happening right now, I can only assume that people are going bankrupt left and right and in order to stay in the black they intend to sue the money out of the largest and (in their eyes) economically untouchable companies. They think this is either going to be an easy win for them because they either win the lawsuit because of their flimsy patent, or they get to settle out of court for an ass-load of money anyways.
I feel sorry for these people who either need the money badly enough to gamble it on this or are greedy enough to be blind to the Legal Titan they just tried to poke in the eye. Seriously, the Videogame makers were bad enough, but to f*** with Wal-Mart AND Apple in the same case?
Even in meritless cases it's cheaper to settle than to go to the mattresses. But, they're taking on 38 opponents at once. If only one of them decides to defend it in full and wins, the rest are moot. And some larger companies have shown that they're willing to fight these questionable lawsuits.
(I recall a story of a flimsy suit against Nintendo. The suit turned bad for the plaintiffs and they moved to dismiss without prejudice. Nintendo was unimpressed and wanted to deny the motion so they could get the case dismissed WITH prejudice and recover attorney's fees. So don't mess with the big N.)
"While, oddly enough, PlayStation manufacturer Sony is not a defendant in the case..."
Wasn't the PS2 the first system to have a parental lock system?
It had parental locks on the DVD playback side but not the game side. This generation is the first to have it on the game side.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
MySpace Page: http://www.myspace.com/okceca
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1325674091
True... That still doesn't explain why they're not listed as a defendant. The first Nintendo product that uses such a system is the Wii if I'm not mistaken, and the PS3 came out before the Wii.
Maybe they saw how much money Sony is losing per unit and felt bad for them?
Yes, I'm beating a horse so dead it's only dust and bones. Slow day at work.
Tea and cake or death! Tea and cake or death! Little Red Cook-book! Little Red Cook-book!
PSP has it on the game side, IIRC.
the first Xbox had it on both sides
岩「…Where do masochists go when they die?」
This all depends on the exact wording of the patents and how the parental controls are implemented, both in components, programming, and marketing description.
Being that no one here is a patent lawyer or even a clerk, perhaps you are jumping the gun.
From what I know of patent law, cases of identical components are clear cut, and easy to solve: either company A used company B's indentical Switch C to stop kids from playing, or not. I doubt this is the issue because of ease of preventing this type of foul-up. (Just buy a swtich D that does the same thing, but from a company you own - like Sony does.)
Programming is the muddiest of all these cases, since it's such a grey area. Comapny A writes code that stops kids from playing video games, Company B does the same thing, but uses different code. From a patent standpoint, there is 'historically' no infringment, but with the pro-IP movement and DMCA, we are seeing the idea bandied about that you can patent a 'goal' of programming, instead of just the code. It's yet to be tested in court, so I imagine this is the type of case we are dealing with.
Probably open and shut, but we've seen the Big 3 overlook the little guy before. Which is why the term Wiimote is not ever officially used, even once.
If they win, I'm going to see if there's a patent on the If-Then statement.
~~All Knowledge is Worth Having~~
I think you nailed the core of what we're seeing right now. Several people trying to get the patent system to enforce patents on generalized ideas of how a software should function and then enforcing that idea upon specific code.
There is a part of the patent system I don't understand, which is does a patent have to be design specific to be enforceable?
For instance if I was to say, submit a patent on something thats toasts two slices of bread by putting the slices of bread into slots, pushing a button, and then the bread pops out after a specified amount of time. Then someone invents the toaster, would my patent on a generalized idea be enforcable on a specific design?
I always though patents were more about specific designs, not just the idea and goal? man, the patent system needs reform :/
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I am a signature virus, please copy and paste me into your signature to help me propagate.
Typically, patents on such a thing as a toaster (of which the original patent has long since expired) are very specific, down to the pattern of the heat coils, the spring tensions, control thermocouples, etc.
Software is trickier, because of the circuituous route you can go to program the same goal into different algorithms. Personally, I believe that Patent law can't handle the fast-paced world of software, being that different builds come at breakneck speeds, but Patents take weeks to review.
~~All Knowledge is Worth Having~~
If this company is successful and manages to get everyone in trouble for the parental controls, can you imagine the political flak this will stir up? "Think of the CHILDREN!"
http://w00tstudios.net/
Meanwhile some ex-attorney is sitting at his desk praying this lawsuit holds as then people could sue the console companies for not having the parental controls on them
I just want to know how my employer, Costco, and the other distributors of equipment and physical media only, got on there. Is it because we sell devices that supposedly use their patent? That's pretty freaking reaching. But I guess that's what patent trolls do.
WTF?
Nintendo and Microsoft sued for just doing the right thing???
Now this is greedy trying to claim and make money out of something that happens to work well.
I think that censorship has sunk to a new low...
somewhere i heard or did i read it anyways the us has roughly a 10:1 ratio of lawers to engineers where japan (i think) has a reverse of that ratio 1 lawer to every 10 engineers
This illustrates, in a nutshell, everything wrong with the patent system.
I had another idea once: A website that discusses video game politics. I will sue anyone who makes it!
M. Carusi
Capitol Gaming
http://capitolgaming.blogspot.com