Judge Comes Down Hard on Video Games in Halo 3 Murder Trial

As GamePolitics reported yesterday, a judge in Lorain County, Ohio ruled that 17-year-old Daniel Petric was guilty of shooting his parents in a dispute over whether or not the teen could play Halo 3. Petric’s mother was killed in the 2007 incident.

A comment made by Judge James Burge during the delivery of his verdict in the case of gamer Petric is getting wide play in both the mainstream and gaming press:

I firmly believe that Daniel Petric had no idea at the time he hatched this plot that if he killed his parents, they would be dead forever.

Pretty negative toward games, right? But Burge’s full remarks are much worse. GamePolitics created the transcript below from a video of the sentencingwhich is posted on the website of the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

By way of context, Judge Burge explains that expert testimony during Petric’s trial failed to establish an insanity defense, forcing him to find Petric guilty as charged. But the judge apparently believes that the young man is deeply troubled and that video games are a primary factor:

The Court must enter a finding of guilty on the counts set forth in the indictment. That being said, it’s my firm belief as a human being – and not as a jurist – that Daniel does suffer from a serious defect of the mind.

 

This Court’s opinion is that we don’t know enough about these video games. In this particular case, not so much the violence of the game because I believe in the Halo 3, what it amounts to is a contest to see who can shoot the most aliens who attack.

 

It’s my firm belief that after a while the same physiological responses occur that occur in the ingestion of some drugs. And I believe that an addiction to these games can do the same thing. The dopamine surge, the stimulation  of the nucleus accumbens – the same as an addiction. Such that when you stop, your brain won’t stand for it.

 

The other dangerous thing about these games, in my opinion, is that when these changes occur, they occur in an environment that is delusional. Because you can shoot these aliens, and they’re there again the next day. You have to shoot them again. And I firmly believe that Daniel Petric had no idea, at the time he hatched this plot, that if he killed his parents, they would be dead forever.

Burge’s parting shot seems to indicate a belief on the judge’s part that we haven’t heard the last of Daniel Petric and his supposed video game issues:

But I believe there is hope here. I believe that it will start here and, uh, at some point when all is known about Daniel and what occurred here we will be able to achieve a greater sense of justice.

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142 comments

  1. 0
    MrKlorox says:

    Perhaps you should visit the Southern US some time. Examine the logic of a random samling of church goers. Most will tell you that this is not the "real" life. Oh well, "I will pray for you," good sir.

  2. 0
    zel says:

    "The study of chemical interactions within the brain."

    More specifically, the effect of external drugs on the mind hence the Pharma portion of it, not the chemical interactions within the brain itself isolated from external drugs, as the judge was talking about.

    http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=psychopharmacology

    http://www.medilexicon.com/medicaldictionary.php?t=73692

    neuropsychopharmacology is listed as a synonym.

    for instance these people would study things like antidepressants and such, drugs that directly affect mood and behaviours, etc…

    ————————————

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  3. 0
    Zevorick says:

    There really is only one definition of criminally insane. You have to fit BOTH rules of consideration in most courts

    1) The defendant was not able to control his or her actions at the time of the incident

    2) The defendant did not know what they were doing at the time was wrong

    This is based on the fact that in order to be convicted of a crime there must be both an action and an intent for said action.

     "Defendents who are criminally insane cannot be convicted of a crime since criminal conduct involves the conscious intent to do wrong — a choice that the criminally insane cannot meaningfully make."

    That is the gist of the reasoning behind being criminally insane. His actions prevented the judge from being able to use this criteria. The insanity defense is not used all too often because it’s not very successful. There are a few individuals who truly were insane and really needed the mental health that would have gone along with it. Andrea Yates is one of them. Her defense did not go through despite fitting the criteria

  4. 0
    zel says:

    Young as in under 18?  are you saying you’re under 18?

    ————————————

    I am a signature virus, please copy and paste me into your signature to help me propagate.

  5. 0
    Zevorick says:

    Actually though, he did bring up some of the inner workings of addiction when he mentioned the "dopamine surge" (I’ll forgive his terminology there because the proper term is esentially that) and the interaction with the nucleus accumbus were important. He seems to know a bit more than the average lay person, but he is a bit off. Most studies (around 85%) show childrens exposure to violent media (be it video games, movies, books, anything pretty much) causes an increase in aggression, NOT psychosis. It would have to have been a prexisting condition or a genetic predisposition to addictive habits that would have caused this state of psychosis. The fact he wasn’t even remotely within the age range where this media content would have drastically affected him makes it look worse for his mental health. Of course, nobody is debating whether this guy was crazy or not.

  6. 0
    sirjonk says:

    I’m afraid not.  Some of you more wily pentagenerians might pretend to be normal just to avoid the mandatory "retirement".  We have to enact a final solution.  Omellete, eggs, etc.  Don’t worry, we’ll make it painless.

  7. 0
    Good Lord says:

    I love it when people trot out the old "You’re clearly too stupid to understand what I’m saying!" card. You’re essentially complaining that this cake you’re eating is not a pie. L4D is not a sandbox game, and crying about the fact that it isn’t is pretty silly. Hence my comment, which is still valid, given the fact that you haven’t got a clue what you’re talking about.

    "In left 4 dead, there is only one way to kill a zombie"

    Alright, time to come clean… you’ve never played this game. Not once. There are lots of ways to kill zombies: You can shoot them, you can bludgeon them, you can burn them, you can explode them, you can knock them off high places… and if you get creative, you can use combinations pretty effectively.

    "Now, if in left 4 dead you could topple a building"

    Yeah! Who needs a realistic development budget, anyway? While we’re at it, why can’t you just flood the streets with gasoline and wipe out all the zombies with one match? Why can’t you use jiu-jitsu on the zombies? Why can’t you eat a steak dinner? Valve is clearly comprised of nothing but hacks.

    "How about if the zombies could come through drywall at you at random?"

    They do. If you’d actually played the game you’re bitching about, you’d know there’s a type of zombie that does this all the time called the Tank. Loves bursting through drywall.

    "What if I could line straw out, puncture that fuel tank, and make a wall of fire?"

    You can. You don’t even need the straw. Looks pretty sweet, too. Seriously, try playing the game before you act like you’re an expert on it.

  8. 0
    Bennett Beeny says:

    "…why do these kids blame the video game they’re playing when they are not supposed to be even near these games anyway?"

    Based on what?  ESRB ratings are not laws.  They are guidelines to help parents.  Parents can follow them or ignore them based on how mature they think their kid is.  If a parent judges his kid to be mature enough, that kid is ‘supposed’ to be near the game.

    We need to understand that an ESRB rating is not an ethical imperative.  In fact, such a rating may not even be useful, since there is no proven link between violent games and any negative behaviour on the part of children who play such games.

    In short, your implication that violent games are harmful for kids is not based on any real world data.  It’s based on baseless prejudice, pure and simple.

  9. 0
    Bennett Beeny says:

    Left 4 Dead is not meant to be an open sandbox type game.  It’s more like a linear shooter, but with a bit more freedom.  Your argument suggests that all linear shooters are by definition ‘not fun’, but that isn’t the case.  Linear shooters are fun because where you go and how you get there aren’t the point.  The point is found in the more cinematic experience they provide, in increasing your skill and (in terms of L4D) in the team-based tactics you use.

    Yes, if L4D was more open – if you could choose where you go and how you get there – that might be more fun.  But developers in the real world have limited time and a limited budget.  Criticizing L4D because its developers did not make it an infinitely open-ended game suggests you live in a world of fantasy where game developers have unlimited time and resources.

  10. 0
    Bennett Beeny says:

    I don’t understand where the details of what happens in Halo 3 have any bearing on the issue, since the kid apparently never played the game.  I’ve never heard of a person getting addicted to drugs he never took, so I’m finding it difficult to see how a kid could be psychologically warped by playing a game he never played.

  11. 0
    Bennett Beeny says:

    "I think we need to put all people over the age of 50 to sleep like we do with our dogs when they become too old to function properly."

    Erm… some of us game defenders are close to (if not over) that 50 year-old limit.  Can we not just put to sleep the nutcases and leave us other codgers alone?

  12. 0
    Zero Beat says:

    When you think about it, swords like knights had were crosses.  Heavy, sharp, metal crosses that could really do some damage

     

    "That’s not ironic. That’s justice."

  13. 0
    Duffy says:

    While you have a somewhat good point; you are ignoring hardware limitations with all your examples. What you suggest has been tried, and has for the most part failed during the implementation stages. The few cases that made it (Red Faction, Fracture, Bad Company) turned it into a gimmick. The development and implementation costs resulted in a lackluster overall product. I agree it would be cool, but aside from setting up a preset series of "Scripted" events to mimic what you ask for, there is just no way to achieve the desired effect with any decent sort of product length.

  14. 0
    DraginHikari says:

    Doing something wrong to someone else because they did it to you is one of the oldest and lamest excuses in all of existance.   Hends the two wrongs don’t make a right situations.

    Being hateful towards someone because of something like that doesn’t fix things nor does it improve understanding.  It just generates more bias, more stereotypes and widens the gap.

  15. 0
    David says:

    If I may take a moment away from the discussion, I’d just like to say:

    Nightwng, it’s comments like this that make me look forward to reading what you have to say.  I can’t think of any particular time that I’ve been disappointed with one of your posts.  There’s always been something good in them.

  16. 0
    Wolvenmoon says:

    I’m sorry, could you not understand that argument?

    In left 4 dead, there is only one way to kill a zombie, and they have millions of scripted events meant to encourage adrenal gameplay, much like a game of laser tag. With laser tag there’s an "Oh, awesome, this is fun!" when you see a really cool setting with nice fog effects and mirrors.

    Now, if in left 4 dead you could topple a building and stop the zombie onslaught for a decent amount of time while you used the toppled building to get to a rooftop and flare for a helicoptor pickup?

    How about if the zombies could come through drywall at you at random?

    It IS mind numbing garbage when you think of it. You’re rewarded for staying inside the very obvious lines they draw for you, even if the lines appear to give you a lot of room. I’ve always thought, in one particular zombie survival map I played on that was set on a farm

    "What if I could line straw out, puncture that fuel tank, and make a wall of fire?"

  17. 0
    Shadow D. Darkman says:

    IIRC, holy warriors have made weapons out of crosses or had crosses implemented in making weapons. I think the motive was to make them more holy.

    Then again…

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  18. 0
    TBoneTony says:

     

    "This Court’s opinion is that we don’t know enough about these video games."

    That was the only line that made any sence…

    It is the Court’s opinion is that THEY don’t know enoughg about THESE videogames…

    But us gamers, who PLAY videogames, we KNOW allot more about videogames because we have PLAYED them…

     

    All the rest of his opinions and how he says that because of the aliens that die are not enough to convince this person that if he shot his parents he did not realize that they would be dead forever…

     

    I mean…What the Hell????

     

    No matter who is crazy or not, I think that everyone in their right mind would tell that if you shoot someone in real life they would be dead….

     

    and what about the toy guns???? Why arn’t they targeted????

     

    Don’t they do the same thing as videogames????

     

    Seriously…. the fact that the judge says that he and the people of the court don’t know enough about videogames…and then to say what he said….I don’t think that is fair to say that type of generalization….

     

    Is the judge really saying that, or is the mainstreem press blowing this out of all proportion????

     

    If you ask me, videogames are not to blame here, it is the HATE that is in SOCIETY that is to blame here… but no one is ever mentioning it because they can’t do anything about the HATE in SOCIETY, so they target something innocent and defenceless instead…

     

    now THAT…is the real sad thing in society….

     

    But I guess we have gone on and on about this before but no one that ever matters has ever listened to us.

     

  19. 0
    gamegod25 says:

    So by his logic if I suddenly stopped playing games then I would go out and kill someone. Yeah that makes perfect sense *roll*

    And you know who can’t tell the difference between reality and fantasy? Crazy people! Unless you have proof that videogames made him crazy then you’re just talking out of your ass. And even if it did lead to his mental instability so what? There are literally millions (if not billions) of people who play videogames. You don’t see people running around the streets gunning people down and then teabagging the bodies now do you? These people are a minority who were crazy to begin with and just happened to be connected to videogames to varying degrees.

    I’ve been a gamer practically from the moment I could use a controller and I don’t drink, smoke, or do drugs. And I’ve never killed anyone or even been arrested for anything. Heck I’ve only been in a couple fights at school and they were all started by someone else and never resulted in any injuries save for maybe a small bruise or scratch. You know why? Because I’m not crazy, heh heh, or at least not that crazy.

  20. 0
    Lazier Than Thou says:

    You’re absolutely right.  Many religious people kill others under the guise of "oh well, they’ll be resurrected by my Lord and Savior."

    Oh wait!  That’s foolish!

    It’s hardly reasonable to compare respawning in a video game to the concept of an eternal soul.  In the case of one, you jump back up the next day in the other you die and you’re still physically dead forever.

    But, then, I doubt your comment had anything to do with intending to be reasonable.

  21. 0
    Ashkihyena says:

    Pretty much, I thought he had sense enough to see that videos games don’t cause people to murder, but apparently, I was wrong, of course, not like I’d listen to anyways seeing as he’s a troll.

  22. 0
    Father Time says:

    Actually it’s been around since the existence of carnivores, and since our ancestors had to hunt they must’ve known that if you hurt something badly enough they die.

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  23. 0
    Father Time says:

    Actually variety is the spice of life.

    And when you’re tlaking about addictions it’s usually the opposite of variety.

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  24. 0
    Father Time says:

    After the defendant played Clue over and over again, I firmly believe that he thought that, like Mr. Boddy, if his parents died they would just come back to life and someone else would get the opportunity to kill them.

    It also made him believe that investigators would still be confused over which weapon killed his parents even after examining a corpse with a gunshot wound.

    Damn you interactivity.

    Now we have to explain to him that he can’t just pay $50 to be released from prison.

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  25. 0
    Father Time says:

    Does even Jack Thompson sincerely believe that games have the same physiological effects as games? lung cancer, death, all sorts of crap vs. a video game …?

    Games are the scapegoat of the day and a long time ago a judge thought mobster movies were responsible for a certain kid committing a crime as well.

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  26. 0
    BrandonL337 says:

    What if it was a silver pointy crucifix?

    There have always been motherf*ckers, there will always be motherf*ckers, but what we can’t do is let them control our motherf*cking lives. -John Oliver, December 1st, 2008

  27. 0
    nighstalker160 says:

    And what, pray tell, is YOUR definition of "Criminal Insanity."

    Let’s go Derovius, put yourself on the line, what do you think criminal insanity means?

  28. 0
    Krono says:

    No, there were times he was banned for being a colossal prick as well.

    Keep in mind that Jack Thompson being banned from GP has been an on and off thing. Over time Dennis decided to draw the ban line at threats, and just censor any jackassery that was off topic for a given news article. Thompson being who he is, that was usually the case.

    -Gray17

  29. 0
    Kincyr says:

    17+, but he was 16 when he purchased it, although he never got a chance to play it, as his parents took it from him as soon as he got home from buying it

    岩「…Where do masochists go when they die?」

  30. 0
    nightwng2000 says:

    You kind of have to dig down into the Search pages of Google, down past this story and his fight against lethal injection as a form of Capital Punishment to find other articles regarding this judge.

    Apparently, while Capital Punishment is "cruel and unusual" by lethal injection, beating a kid with a belt across the back is considered acceptable forms of "Corporal Punishment" to this judge.

    http://pattiewald.blogspot.com/2007/08/judge-and-belt.html

    There are a great deal of articles dealing with lethal injection and this murder case, but if anyone else can find some articles on this judge’s other decisions, I’d like to see them.  Thanks.

    Nightwng2000

    NW2K Software

    Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

  31. 0
    Shoehorn Oplenty says:

    "This Court’s opinion is that we don’t know enough about these video games."

    And having said that, he then proceeds to speak at length about them in a critical manner, holding forth with his opinions, which while sensationalized, don’t add up to a hill of beans. I don’t know a lot about advanced particle physics, so if I were to try and tell people about it, you can guarantee what I tell them would be BS.

    "The other dangerous thing about these games, in my opinion, is that when these changes occur, they occur in an environment that is delusional."

    Yes. That environment is what we call "fiction", or "make-believe". Star Wars occurs in the same environment. So does Goldilocks and the 3 bears. Most people are taught at a young age and have the mental faculties to differentiate this "make-believe" from another environment which we refer to as "real life". If someone can’t do that, it isn’t the fault of the fiction, it’s the result of that person’s mental deficiency/disorder/damage.

     

  32. 0
    Derovius says:

    "Why not? that was why Jack Thompson was banned"

     Thompson was banned because he’s threatened Dennis and members of this community. I’m sure even someone like you knows the difference between a threat and mockery.

    "though I don’t want you to be banned Devo, because you are the eminent douchebag of the comments and you make me LOL at your utter retardation."

     I live to serve.

  33. 0
    MrKlorox says:

    Fallout 3 is gory because that was a staple of the first two Fallouts. The new developers (Bethsoft) wanted to keep various aspects of the original, and the Bloody Mess perk was one of the most memorable.

    However Oblivion was pretty brutal for a T rated game. Seems like a mostly natural evolution to the new grounds of the M rating for Bethsoft.

  34. 0
    BrandonL337 says:

    Why not? that was why Jack Thompson was banned

    though I don’t want you to be banned Devo, because you are the eminent douchebag of the comments and you make me LOL at your utter retardation.

    There have always been motherf*ckers, there will always be motherf*ckers, but what we can’t do is let them control our motherf*cking lives. -John Oliver, December 1st, 2008

  35. 0
    Lou says:

    The judge came out looking like a hypocrite in this case. He chastitized the defense for using the "halo made me do it" defense and yet he bashed Halo claiming that the game made the kid ignorant about life and death. In fact I have a better question to ask all the adults on this website, why do these kids blame the video game they’re playing when they are not supposed to be even near these games anyway? Games like Halo 3, Resistance 2, Call of Duty 4 and so on are full of 12 to 15 year olds with utterly retarded comments and curse like PO’ed sailors. Instead of complaining about the video games they should complain about parents and their serious lack of responsibility.

  36. 0
    Benji says:

    I never claimed to be an expert in any medical field – simply expressing skepticism at the judge’s comments about the science of addiction because I suspect he also is not an expert in any medical field.

  37. 0
    Wolvenmoon says:

    Well, quite frankly I think that this huge resurgence in FPS games and the extreme gore and violence present in all genres in a growing percentage of them could cause problems.

    Compare quake 3 to something like fallout 3 in level of detail on the gore. Quake 3 is an older first person shooter game that at the time has some pretty gruesome graphics to it. The series was known for this kind of stuff, and in the first person shooter genre the quake series is known to be pretty intense. The violence and gore isn’t that out of place, and if I remember correctly, most of it could be turned off.

    Now let’s fast forward over a half decade down the road to fallout 3. Fallout 3 is an action RPG. It’s also hugely bloody, hugely gory, you can literally blast someone’s head into high detail giblets with a shotgun, and eat their butchered corpse. (The butchering is not shown, it’s the same dialogue as opening a container of items, to my knowledge).

    Why do I draw the comparison across generations? Well, action RPGs haven’t been known for these kinds of images. Around quake 3, we had morrowind as our action RPG. Although morrowind did have some slightly disturbing images, they were nowhere near as nasty as fallout 3. Coincidentally, morrowind and fallout 3 are both made by the same company.

     

    As a whole the gaming industry isn’t going towards non-violent immersion. We have the physics processing power to…well, let me give you a scenario.

    ————————-

    The player character ‘Hero’ has a mission to assassinate a slave trader who is staying in a local inn built into the side of a city’s wall. ‘Hero’ is given no other restrictions, other than this man must die. Today’s computers-and consoles to a lesser extent, would allow ‘Hero’ the following options if a game was made:

    Plant powder kegs at the base of hte wall outside the city and detonate them with a fireball, thus collapsing the city wall over the inn.

    Smash through the city wall with a warhammer, into the back of the inn, and charge the bewildered slave trader.

    Set fire to the inn and burn the entire thing down

    Poison the slave trader

    Sneak in while he’s sleeping and put a dagger in him

    Shoot him through his window

    Shoot a fire arrow through his window

    and many other options.

    ——————

    Instead of those kinds of options available in our action RPGs, we can blow a mutant’s head into chunks and eat its corpse. In the same game, the physics are so poor that a mop bucket easily stops the player from continuing, and requires him to go around.

    If you’ll notice, none of the options in my scenario involved extreme gore, however, we could spend an inordinate amount of time letting the player raise a skeleton out of the still living slave trader, brutally ripping him apart. The same amount of time doing this animation and blood could go into programming an entire branch of AI that let you hire someone to kill the slave trader, or to round up that AI’s friends to group up on him.

    No, instead of this kind of awesome immersion that would let you level a city (and watch the AI rebuild it piece by piece), we have fallout 3, left 4 dead, dead space, and other mind numbing garbage that’s built on recycled engines with recycled graphics and recycled concepts.

  38. 0
    MrKlorox says:

    "And I firmly believe that Daniel Petric had no idea, at the time he hatched this plot, that if he killed his parents, they would be dead forever."

    I have a feeling that if this is true, the superstition of eternal life that his religious upbringing holds as truth probably had a bit more to do with it than videogames. The difference is that everybody knows videogames are fantasy.

  39. 0
    BrandonL337 says:

    you make me LOL Devo, you’re an ass but I LOL all the same.

    There have always been motherf*ckers, there will always be motherf*ckers, but what we can’t do is let them control our motherf*cking lives. -John Oliver, December 1st, 2008

  40. 0
    Derovius says:

    "If the Judge thinks he’s that mentally unbalanced, there is no way he should have been found guilty. On the other hand, given that he tried to frame someone else for the crime, I’d say the judge is probably just full of ****."

     Thanks for failing to grasp the concept of criminal insanity.

    "Also, can Derovius be banned on the grounds that he’s a collosal prick?"

     No, I can’t. If I could, I’d have been banned a long time ago. Now stfu.

     

  41. 0
    Chaltab says:

    If the Judge thinks he’s that mentally unbalanced, there is no way he should have been found guilty. On the other hand, given that he tried to frame someone else for the crime, I’d say the judge is probably just full of ****.

    Also, can Derovius be banned on the grounds that he’s a collosal prick?

  42. 0
    lazyslothboy says:

    Techinically there is a campaign scoring in the game, where you can compete with the other players with you in campaign.  And your kills directly affect that score.

    Now that is in no way what the game is all about, just pointing out that such a scoring system exists.

  43. 0
    Derovius says:

     EZK has failed to attack the invalidity of the base statement properly.

     Sex can be addictive, however, having sex until your fun bits are raw will not kill you. Nymphomania, a classic psychology condition catalogued in the Psychologists Handbook is the addiction to sex such to the point you are unable to interact properly with your environment, be it feed yourself, work, sleep, etc. You will not die of Nymphomania, you may die of starvation, dehydration, shock/cardiac arrest (from lack of sleep), etc.

     So no, you cannot die from being addicted to games. You can however die from complications related to said addiction. Now insert EZK’s comment.

  44. 0
    Derovius says:

     Excuse me Dr. Benji, care to show us your Medical Degree in Psychopharmacology? Oh wait, this is the internet, where you can a foot long penis and a million bucks just by willing it.

  45. 0
    NovaBlack says:

     ”because I believe in the Halo 3, what it amounts to is a contest to see who can shoot the most aliens who attack.”

     o..k.. i have NEVER played halo against anyone competitively to see ‘who can shoot the most aliens’.

    EVER.

    EVER.

     

    ”It’s my firm belief that after a while the same physiological responses occur that occur in the ingestion of some drugs. ”

    And its my belief that pigs fly. Doesnt mean it has any place even being mentioned in a courtroom. Especially when you have no medical expertise and thus have no authority to make such a statement.

  46. 0
    SimonBob says:

    Hahaha, I love how everyone was happy and complimenting the judge on the previous story, but now that his full remarks are out, we’ve got a whole page of "zomg he’s retarded kick him off the bench!!"  That’ll learn us for celebrating prematurely! ;|

    The Mammon Industry

  47. 0
    Derovius says:

    The definition of criminal insanity differs from medical insanity. He obviously had some understanding of his actions, and the consequences, given that he tried to frame someone else. If he blew both his parents away, ran and pluged his xbox and started playing while they lay bleeding to death on the floor pleading for help, than yeah he would be criminally insane.

  48. 0
    Benji says:

    And he’s qualified to make statements on the physio-chemical aspects of video game addiction because…?

    I see the point that Petric may well be psychologically damaged person, but that’s a long ways from ‘video games made him do it.’  Maybe Petric was a deeply antisocial person who just didn’t like other people and devoted himself to hobbies that didn’t involve human interaction – such as video games.  Obsessive game playing might have been a symptom of a deeper problem rather than the root of the problem itself.

  49. 0
    Derovius says:

     He is analyzing the problem properly, but he is falling short of one simple truth. Anything you enjoy will become an addiction in the right conditions. Sex, chocolate, the internet, illegal and legal drugs, alcohol, social interaction, social isolation, etc., etc.

     Violence has been around since primatives humans learne that if they hit each other upside the head with those heavy round things on the ground enough times that the victim never got back up. There is as much an arguement against firearms, social isolations and parenting here as there is against gaming. The problem is that gaming is as common knowledge as the above, save maybe social isolation, and makes a magnificant scapegoat. Nothing more.

  50. 0
    Shiro says:

    It’s okay, I feel like I need some SSRI’s (anti-depressants like zoloft or prozac), I feel depressed just thinking about this.

    I guess when you’re a judge you can be illogical as can be and people STILL think you make sense! I say one of us should be a judge and use the justice system the way we see fit. That’ll show them! 

    Okay, zoloft time.

    Only by letting strangers in can we find new ways to be ourselves.

  51. 0
    DavCube says:

    The judge seems to forget something: Games do not KILL the person if ‘overdosed.’

    Correct me if i’m wrong, but don’t physiological addictions deal with FOREIGN chemicals entering the body, not just those the body makes naturally? (Hence why there would even be classifications between psychological and physiological addictions in the first place?)

  52. 0
    Praetorian says:

    Okay, this article makes my head hurt.

    So, the court found him sane, and the judge doesn’t seem to think that a 17 year old boy realizes that death is forever?

    This still sounds like a parenting issue. I knew by the age of six that death was forever, albeit I learned the hard way by losing a sibling to a heart problem.

    If the parents had sat down and talked with him at any age about death, then this would have been avoided.

    *sigh* I need some aspirin…or do those make me violent too?

    Praetorian

    "I’ve been told I’m the resident skeptic, but I wouldn’t believe that."

    ECA Seattle Chapter

    http://www.myspace.com/pree_tawr_ee_uhn

  53. 0
    BearDogg-X says:

    I take back my comment in the previous thread about the intelligence of this mentally challenged judge.

    He ran his mouth, yet said that the defense wasn’t a defense?

    Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.


    Proud supporter of the New Orleans Saints, LSU, 1st Amendment; Real American; Hound of Justice; Even through the darkest days, this fire burns always

    Saints(3-4), LSU(7-0)

  54. 0
    Shiro says:

    I think we need to put all people over the age of 50 to sleep like we do with our dogs when they become too old to function properly.

    A little extreme there, but you bring up a very good point… After a certain age, people forget that times have changed. I hear stories from friends about how their grandparents are still very openly racist, and have no intention of changing. 

    Not saying we’re going to put them to sleep, cause that’ll be just wrong, there HAS to be a better way, I just don’t know of one. 

    Only by letting strangers in can we find new ways to be ourselves.

  55. 0
    GoodRobotUs says:

    Well, it’s complete laymanic rubbish, but at least he’s capable of seperating opinion from fact, there’s no law against him having an opinion I guess, even if I don’t agree with it.

  56. 0
    CMiner says:

    "I think we need to put all people over the age of 50 to sleep like we do with our dogs when they become too old to function properly."

     

    Read "A Generation Removed".  Not that I agree with the idea, but it’s an interesting fiction book on the same thought.

  57. 0
    CMiner says:

    Are you bloody kidding me?  If an adult is unable to tell the difference between a video game and real life they have mental problems that need to be addressed.  Video games may aggravate an existing problem, much like strobe like aggravate an epileptic’s condition, but video games are not the cause.

  58. 0
    DarkSaber says:

    At the very least we need to stop putting them in high profile decision-making positions.

    ————————————————–

    I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

  59. 0
    JoelWhy says:

    "The dopamine surge the stimulation of the nucleus accumbens – the same as an addiction. Such that when you stop, your brain won’t stand for it"

    Seems to me that the only rational solution is to play MORE video games.  Stop, and you might have to go on a "killing spree" (hahaha…ok, not so funny.)

     

    In any case, as a gamer, I have a visceral dislike of claims that games can be damaging.  But, I try to be objective.  I conceed it is possible games may have a negative impact on the behavior of certain susceptible individuals.  I even concede that video games could be more damaging to these individuals than, say, television, movies, etc because they are more interactive.

    That being said, I (a) don’t believe this applies to the vast majority of people; rather, the negative behavior is likely only exhibited in a very small percentage of the populace who have other significant behavioral and/or emotional problems; (b) don’t think the government should play nanny-state and try to legislate against this; and (c) do not believe video game addiction, etc should be allowed as a viable defense against in criminal cases.

  60. 0
    sirjonk says:

    Judge needs to go read what politicians used to claim about comic books, rock & roll, and then tv and movies, etc.  Rots your brain, causes psychosis, bad influence. 

    I think we need to put all people over the age of 50 to sleep like we do with our dogs when they become too old to function properly.

  61. 0
    Chuma says:

    No, you used re-election rather than review because you either didn’t know that they were not re-elected, or you made a mistake.  Take it on the chin.

  62. 0
    Neeneko says:

    Depends on the level of judge they are.

    Federal judges tend to be appointed for life.  State/Count/etc judges have to run for election and can be unseated just like any other politician.

    Good reason to never trust a non-federal judge since they know an unpopular verdict (even if legally correct) can cost them thier job.

  63. 0
    Shadow D. Darkman says:

    Thanks, EZK. Speaking of rulings, can we get Dennis to rule on this sad little Troll’s fate?

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  64. 0
    HarmlessBunny says:

    Yeesh he is speaking gibberish? Hrm okay… here is a question for you, is it common or polite to swear at a person’s point of view? Especially when it is not directed to you in any hostile way…

  65. 0
    Derovius says:

     They still go under review to ensure they aren’t abusing their position. I used "re-election" versus "review" because you’d have been equally as confused. Something I can’t help you with, sadly.

  66. 0
    exgamerdotnet says:

    Crossposted from my blog:

    While I’m thrilled that Judge Burge has learned something about video game addiction, I have difficulty believing Daniel didn’t know his parents ‘would be dead forever.’ 

    I understand that Daniel and his father were gun enthusiasts and regularly visited their local gun club for target practice. Assuming that the gun club and Rev. Petric instilled proper respect for deadly weapons, Daniel will have learned how to empty, clean, store, transport, load, and fire one or more handguns. He will also have been taught a thousand times the consequences of mishandling a gun.

    The suggestion that any amount of video game play, even addictive or compulsive play, with whatever in-game BFG’s he was using to cut down aliens in Halo 3 would undo that learning causes me to be very skeptical. I stand by my assertions around gaming addiction, but I firmly believe Daniel knew the consequences of his actions, planned a first degree homicide, and got caught.

    It’s time for him to be sentenced.

     

    -Brad

    http://www.exgamer.net

  67. 0
    Michael Chandra says:

    Like I commented in the last one, this kid was brought up religiously. Going to heaven, yes, but respawning ain’t in their dictionary people. No 17-year old would be THIS delusional just by gaming a bit.

  68. 0
    asmodai says:

    So by the judges rationale, if you can provide testimony that someone is addicted to heroin , or crack, or methamphetamine or any other pharmaceutical (or gambling for that matter), then they could legitimately get an insanity plea…

    Because that’s what it sounds like for games.  Present enough pseudo science that game addiction made him do it and bingo, insanity…

    Surely you aren’t saying that judge?

  69. 0
    Chuma says:

    I’d say that was the difference between him stating his opinion and his judicial review.  Personally I agree with everything he said re: the case itself and the outcome, but his opinion as stated in the video was from ignorance (as he himself admits by claiming "this court does not know enough about these video games).  It would just be nice if for once rather than making these comments, judges and those in a position of some power were to do their research on the subject a little.

  70. 0
    Derovius says:

     Commendable? Its his job. If he was to rule based on opinion, it would be thrown out in appeals court and he would have to face this in the next time they renew his position.

     He did this to save his ass, not out of some idealistic belief. Judges are no different than politicians. They ride the majority wave, keeping just enough people happy until they get re-elected.

  71. 0
    Andrew Eisen says:

    On the other hand, Judge Burge was able to put aside his, in my opinion, absurd personal beliefs and do what was right and just.

    Commendable, says I.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  72. 0
    Vinzent says:

    REALITY: This man is a Judge.

    FANTASY: This man is a Judge who apparently is an expert in psychology and neurology, and can make a sweeping diagnosis of the negative affects of gaming based on one boy’s actions.

    Hey judge, do the world a favor and stop givning an expert opinion on things you’re not an expert on.

  73. 0
    Suma67 says:

    OK, firstly I believe that the judge made the correct decision.  The boy shot and killed his mother because he was mad at the rules established in the house.  The same rules that were in place before his accident which put him on medication and restricted him to the home for long periods of time.

    I understand this more than most as my son has thrown a fit for the same reasons, he didn’t like the house rules.  The key in both instances, the medications.  My son is on medication for lack of impulse control.  He cannot rationalize why something cannot be done right now, as soon as it pops in his mind, whether its getting food, going outside without a coat, etc.  I do not know what his biological father did to him as a child.  I have heard stories, but in the end I will never know.

    All that to say this: who truly knows what any medications given to anyone is going to do.  Listen to any drug commercial and 45 out of 60 seconds list possible side effects that will or will not effect any number of people taking that drug.

    Was the Petric boy insane, no.  Did Halo make him act out in a fit of rage and anger towards his parents because he did not like their rules, no.  Did everything combined push him over the edge of sound reason, yes.  No different than anyone of us loosing our temper in a fit of road rage because the little blue haired lady that cannot see over her steering-wheel is swerving back and forth across the yellow divider line and we are late for work and cannot pass her.

    The difference, most people yell, curse, rant, and rave, and beat their own steering-wheel, but we do not ram the woman off the road.  If we were medicated, what would we do?

    But in the end, playing halo while medicated could truly warp Petrics sense of reality.  Does not make him insane, it makes him influencable.

  74. 0
    mogbert says:

    I only have a short time, so I can’t read through the whole thread, but I wanted to make this statement.

    The idea that the murderer didn’t realize that his parents would be gone forever is ONLY supported if this teenager NEVER had any other exposure to death, nothing in TV, nothing in movies, never had a family member or schoolmate die. As I don’t believe that is the case, I think the judge made an error in his reasoning.The only correct statement he made was that they don’t know enough about the games.

  75. 0
    Deamian says:

    "It’s my firm belief that after a while the same physiological responses occur that occur in the ingestion of some drugs. And I believe that an addiction to these games can do the same thing. The dopamine surge, the stimulation  of the nucleus accumbens – the same as an addiction. Such that when you stop, your brain won’t stand for it."

    Make your mind Mr.Judge, is it the video games the guy killed for, or his little rush? Either way, if it wasn’t video games, it could’ve been extreme sports. Which is way more dangerous. In short, it’s fun when old people try to understand younger behaviors, fails, and quickly press themselves to find a guilty.

    "The other dangerous thing about these games, in my opinion, is that when these changes occur, they occur in an environment that is delusional. Because you can shoot these aliens, and they’re there again the next day. You have to shoot them again. And I firmly believe that Daniel Petric had no idea, at the time he hatched this plot, that if he killed his parents, they would be dead forever."

    With the american television, and it’s afternoon shows, I’m pretty sure the average children understands the concept of death without too much problem ; death = gone, even if it’s implemented in a humorsitic setting and hurts like hell to face in real life.. To say that a 17 year old troubled son did not realize what he was doing is plain wrong

    "This Court’s opinion is that we don’t know enough about these video games. In this particular case, not so much the violence of the game because I believe in the Halo 3, what it amounts to is a contest to see who can shoot the most aliens who attack."

    Then why are you even talking, Mr.Judge? Or even taking a life changing decision based on lack of information?

    All in all, it’s an ordinary angry teenager vs parents attempting some discipline in their households scene who turned out to be extraordinary, and sad… All is as it should be, for once again, a young man’s death is another man’s political fodder.

     

  76. 0
    TBoneTony says:

    4th post this time

    "I believe in the Halo 3, what it amounts to is a contest to see who can shoot the most aliens who attack."

    This statement alone, deems my opinon that the judge is getting the game mixed up with Space Invaders… like this is the reason why us gamers have to suffer at the stipidity of others, it is because we are the ones who have played the game, yet people who make judgements on us don’t really have any idea what the game is about.

     

  77. 0
    TBoneTony says:

    also, and I don’t mind posting 3 times today…

    "This Court’s opinion is that we don’t know enough about these video games."

    Simple, if you don’t understand enough about videogames, isn’t it more logical to take a deep breath, admit that you don’t know much about videogames, and try to PLAY videogames to understand them more instead of raving about how games and the resprawn aliens MIGHT have played a part in the teenager going ballistic on his parents?

    Because all that the judge is doing is making people confused about what the court’s opinion is and what his opinion is…

     

    No…wait…these people who don’t play games don’t bother trying to understand because it takes too much…what is the word? Oh they don’t have enough TIME to play Videogames…

     

    So they just instead lable all us gamers as game addicted all because we take the time to play them.

     

    I can see what the logic here…and it is sad that the world is this way.

     

  78. 0
    TBoneTony says:

     

    What I am trying to say is, there are people who get angry when they don’t get what they want, look at a certain disbarred laywer for example and many of the politicians in the white house….

     

    and when someone is so angry, all their common sence is thrown out the window because it does not get what they want and they throw tantrums like a 3 year old….

     

     

  79. 0
    sheppy says:

    It’s the Tom & Jerry clause made famous by the State of Denial vs. Jane Ghotagunn case in 1979.  In which the court system felt the corrupting influence of violence found in these cartoons was what ultimately lead this previously sane person to a road of insanity where reality simply did not exist.  Ironically enough, this same case was used to overthrow a case in Bizarro World where Bizarro would be stripped of his previous status of No. 1.  When asked for comment, Bizarro responded, "Me am think this fair trial and won’t try for appeals."

    Wall of Text Simulation- Insert coin to continue.

  80. 0
    The Falcon says:

    "The other dangerous thing about these games, in my opinion, is that, when these changes occur, they occur in an environment that is delusional. Because you can shoot these aliens, and they’re there again the next day. You have to shoot them again. And I firmly believe that Daniel Petric had no idea, at the time he hatched this plot, that if he killed his parents, they would be dead forever."

    I honestly don’t understand how people could think this way. If I understand this correctly, pleading insanity failed for the defendent, yet the judge still believes this could be true? I doubt any sane gamer would think killing in real life would be as inconsequential as killing in games.

  81. 0
    BrandonL337 says:

    Billy Madison FTW

    There have always been motherf*ckers, there will always be motherf*ckers, but what we can’t do is let them control our motherf*cking lives. -John Oliver, December 1st, 2008

  82. 0
    Maxpower says:

    This is what was running through my nead while reading this..

    "Mr. Madison, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

    Replacing Burge with Madison of course….

    "It could have been, should have been worse than you would ever know"

  83. 0
    V4nI114 Ic3 says:

    i think the judge is retarded.

    if he wants to buy it that the kind went crazy and decided to shoot his mother and father because they took away halo, thats fine.  and if he wants to convict him of murder and discount any theory of insanity, thats fine.

    but saying that *HE* believes that the kid thought his parents would be "respawned" the next day because he was so addicted to video games, but then discounting any possibility of insanity?  wtf doesnt make sense batman.

  84. 0
    Soldat_Louis says:

    Well, at least, this Judge made the difference between "the Court’s opinion" and his "firm belief", so let’s take it for what it is : nothing more than a belief.

  85. 0
    Shiro says:

    How long did it take for him to come up with this?

    I firmly believe that Daniel Petric had no idea at the time he hatched this plot that if he killed his parents, they would be dead forever.

    Seriously?

    Only by letting strangers in can we find new ways to be ourselves.

  86. 0
    ConstantNeophyte says:

    "The dopamine surge the stimulation of the nucleus accumbens – the same as an addiction. Such that when you stop, your brain won’t stand for it"

    This quote is interesting; to me it indicates an attempt to blame "game addiction" by the defence.

    But, and I thought this was well established, Petric never actually got to play Halo 3, did he? I thought that was the whole reason he went postal?

    No mention of cabin fever from being housebound for so long or the degree of premeditation that went into the execution of his parents.

    And then there is the dichotomy between this statement: "And I firmly believe that Daniel Petric had no idea, at the time he hatched this plot, that if he killed his parents, they would be dead forever." and his decision to try Petric as a sane person.

    -ConstantNeophyte: always the newb, ALWAYS.

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