Amazon Pulls Rape Game Following News Report, Political Pressure

Last night GamePolitics reported on the outcry over a Japanese rape game offered on Amazon.com.

Among those expressing disgust over PC hentai title RapeLay was British MP Keith Vaz, long a video game industry critic.

At the time we predicted that – since RapeLay was offered as a used product by re-seller Hentaiguy – Amazon likely didn’t know about the game and would do the right thing when they found out.

That now appears to be the case.

LifeNews.com reports that RapeLay has been removed from Amazon.com listings:

Amazon.com has dropped its listing for a controversial Japanese video game called Rapelay that involves raping women and forcing them to have abortions. The so-called "rape simulator" game was sold on the web site and included a graphic description of the gameplay.

Although a listing for the product is available through online searches, the link to it on Amazon’s web page no longer functions.

We’re also not finding any additional sales listings from Hentaiguy. Perhaps Amazon has shown him the door.

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223 comments

  1. Sukasa says:

    On an interesting story to add to what you are talking about in regards to manga. I used to work at a bookstore and a guy who worked there for a little while, was a very strict christian(he wouldn’t even touch some books in the store).  I heard that he complained about why alot of women on manga books (and I am not talking about the more adult manga) were scantly clad, etc.  While I wasn’t there to answer his question, I would likely have told him that he fails to understand that the Japanese have a completely different mind set and belief then Americans do.  Course, it probably has something to do with the fact that christianity is a minority religion in Japan as well.

    The best way too deflect alot of these video/anime haters is we seriously need people who actually enjoy gaming, anime, etc to run in government.  People who understand the culture and actually know what gaming, etc is.  On an interesting note, will we when we are "old" and some new technology is being develooped (neural implants on some other sci-fi invention if you want to be creative) will we be acting like the current out of touch "adults" who don’t understand or like gaming, etc or will we welcome the new tech as a better form of entertainment, tool, invention, etc?

     

  2. Kincyr says:

    It’s interesting that no one has brought up the point that in Japan, a country where such games are numerous and easily accessed, the rate of violent crime is much lower than other countries.

    the late George Carlin noted that despite the extremely violent media in Japan, a woman is only one fifth as likely to be attacked in Japan than in the U.S. It’s in his book Brain Droppings.

    岩「…Where do masochists go when they die?」

  3. Monte says:

     Ok not sure, but i think i recall hearing that a more recent law was passed, like within the last 5 years or so. From that article, the problem with that previous law is that it covered to far broad a range, such as making any kind of fictional depiction of underage sex illegal… this however would cause the problem since sex can appear as an artistic work, having artistic merit, and thus be protected as freedom of speech. The more recent law on the other hand is a bit more narrow in that it makes certain to only apply to underage sex that doesn’t have artistic merit and thus falls under the catagory of pornography. Pornography is not considered to be protected speech and therefore the government is free to regulate it or ban it if they want…. not sure if there has been any ruling on such a law…

  4. Andrew Eisen says:

    Which is fine.  Where I take issue is when people say, "Ewww, I don’t like this, get it away from me and everyone else too."

     

    Andrew Eisen

  5. G-Meister says:

    Novablack said it best farther up on the page,

    "I mean its not like traditional ‘art’ wether that be paintings or sculptures or whatever is completely 100% non contraversial. In face some of the most famous art of the past decade HAS been contraversial. Was it damien hurst (apologies if thats spelt wrong) who achieved fame through his ‘art’ of dead people and animals sliced and put in jars?

    Does everyone like his art? no… Is that acceptable? yes. Often people forget that art actually isnt always about making you feel good things.. its often just about making a person feel a wide range of things, some good (happiness) some bad (disgust, horror). The fact that it can evoke such a strong negative emotion is often sometimes the main purpose of the art… To evoke feeling."

    This game envokes a feeling, and it’s usually one that people don’t like. So their natural reaction is kind of a, "Ewww, get it away from me," with wildly varying intensity.

  6. Andrew Eisen says:

    You know, I don’t think I’ll ever understand why anyone has a problem with this.  Yes, it depicts the rape of a crying, underage girl but so what?

    She’s not real.  She’s an animated three-dimensional model.  No real person is actually being harmed.  Her voice actress is fine too.  She was just acting.

    I absolutely boggles my mind that anyone can look at a drawing of a preteen being raped and be that upset or offended by it.  Grossed out by the idea, sure but it’s a drawing.  It’s not real.  Sure the idea is disgusting but it’s just paint on a piece of paper.

    Having said that, it’s totally okay if stuff like that does offend you.  Really, that’s fine.  Just understand that there is a market for this stuff and it’s not up to you to decide what is appropriate for other people to consume.

    Remember, it’s not real.  It’s not hurting anybody.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  7. Andrew Eisen says:

    They can yell all they want, it’s not going to matter because they will not be able to actually do anything except be vocal.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  8. G-Meister says:

    And they might actually have to do something about it, rather than just saying, "Meh, it’s what the people want."

  9. hellfire7885 says:

    I’ll say again that if Vaz was so concerned about kids gettign that game, I wouldl ike him to explain how a child could do it without their parents knowing


  10. mdo7 says:

     

    USA won’t fret about manga/anime as long as the first Amendment and the ECA are willing to team up with anime/manga industry to protect them.  But there are a lot of anime haters out there, they can decide to team up with video game haters (they’re willing to burn their 360 or PS3 so they can hate video game for them).  There are many way for anime haters to become video game haters.  I met one anime hater who hate video game and he is like a splitting image of Jack Thompson.  Here’s the link.  This guy even left the comment on my channel saying video game are evil.  He could be JT or his apprentice.

     

    To Dennis, Andrew Eisen:  That attack on the hentai game.  It’s a sign.  Anime/manga are next to be blame for criminal act.  There’s enough anime haters out there to become the video game critic’s apprentice.  I think the ECA may need to forge a alliances with anime industry.  Do you think we can form some sort of animepolitics (I recommend contacting Anime News Network for forming it) to watch anime/manga when politicians, activists, and haters may try to smear the image of anime/manga when this happen.  I wouldn’t be suprised if JT attack anime/manga next.  He knows there’s anime haters out there, he can convert them to video game haters by various ways.  If this happen, JT is going to have a cult who will hate on video game/anime/manga.  We got to be careful, our video game haters/critics will attack anime/manga next.  First it’s hentai game, next will be anime/manga.  WE NEED TO PROTECT ANIME/MANGA, THEY ARE A FORM OF ART AND DON’T FORGET MOST OF OUR VIDEO GAME AND JRPG USE ANIME ART FOR IT.  

  11. kurbster says:

    Protip: tentacle porn was created to bypass the mosaic censorship on penises.

    Makes you wonder if they would of been any different if those damn blocks were removed

  12. kurbster says:

    Google Translate brought this up in front of me:

    "Restrictions on foreign shipping: This item can not be delivered outside of Japan."

    so it’s odviously a trade-restricted item.  This has nothing to do with morality issues

  13. TBoneTony says:

    If they were rated by the ESRB as AO18+ and since the only way to sell an AO18+ game in America is by via the internet, then I can’t see any harm in that.

    As I know, Rapelay was not given an American rating at all, and many of the Japanese Hentai DVDs have the American 18+ sign as well as a lable that says “ABSOLUTELY NOT FOR CHILDREN!!!”

    People who sell adult products online are doing all they can to make it clear to parents that certain material for the adult market is clearly NOT for kids.

  14. TBoneTony says:

    I think that some people are forgeting one simple thing that should be noted when we talk about Hentai games.

    These games are ONLY advaliable in Japan and online on the internet sales sites. Hentai games are NOT commercially sold.

    Children are already being protected from Hentai games simply because they are not sold in shops where it is easy to get hold of them. Online sales has got a system where you NEED a Credit Card or a Debbit Card to buy it, and it is more up to the responsibility for the parent.

    Also Hentai games can only be sold online or in Japan so people who are ADULTS are able to choose if they want to buy a Hentai game of their own choice.

    Yes, some are disturbing, and some feature rape and also lolicon, but there are also some other Hentai games at the same time having long epic stories of love, betrayal, illness, courage, and fighting tentacle monsters in the name of good and getting some sexy action if the player wants to as a reward for their hard work.

    Hentai games feature allot of good things more than people realize, but it is because of the pornography that gives Hentai games a bad name in the eyes of society.

    anyone got something to add?

  15. JoshuaOrrizonte says:

    The problem I have with citing crime rates when it comes to issues like rape is that, at least in the United States, rape is terribly underreported. That the actual number for reported rapes wasn’t included doesn’t matter; the "blanket" statistic includes rapes, so it should be assumed to be much lower than it actually is, in my opinion.

    That’s not to say that 1) I think that media of ANY type is responsible for ANY violent crime whatsoever (it isn’t) or 2) I have an opinion either way on Amazon pulling the listings. I DO have an opinion on the speculation that the seller was shown the door for his listings (obviously, I have no idea if this is the case) but on the game itself? I think it’s disgusting that it was created, and I think it’s disgusting that there’s a market for it, but as long as the players of the game are keeping their fetishes to themselves rather than forcing it on women, I really can’t bring myself to care about it.

    That said (I don’t have an opinion on whether it was "right" or "wrong" of Amazon to pull the game) I agree that they have the right to control what is being sold on their service. I don’t see pulling the game as a moral issue; it’s a business one.

    (All of this is MHO, of course. I’ve been known to be full of it.)

  16. ZenAndNow says:

    Though I have no love of this game and the concepts it expouses…

    To bastardise a famous saying in order to make a point:

    First they came for RapeLay, and I cheered them on, because I did not care for it.

    Then they came for the other fringe games, and I did not speak out, because I did not care for them.

    Finally they came for my games… and there was nobody left to speak out.

     

    The moral of this story? Never, ever, ever, give extremists a foothold, or they will take every possible inch they can. Regardless of what this game is and does, there’s undoubtedly porn/movies/books/TV shows that duplicate/are worse than this in real life and quite likely freely available within walking distance of where this politician lives.

  17. mygoditsraining says:

    It’s interesting that no one has brought up the point that in Japan, a country where such games are numerous and easily accessed, the rate of violent crime is much lower than other countries.

    In January, the police reported their crime figures for 2008.  Approximately 1.5 million crimes were reported, most of which were instances of theft. Violent crime, including assault, murder, rape and arson brought in a total of 8,300 reports (source: Yomiuri Shimbun) for the year, 1,300 of which were murders. Rape figures were not reported in the source article.

    In a country of ~128 million people, the rate of violent crimes is very, very low. Claiming that the existence of this software directly influences the motivation of players to commit the crimes depicted (which is, in essence, what all anti-violent-game lobbyists are attempting to do every time they kick up a fuss) is ridiculous considering the mind boggling volume of what we in the UK might consider to be thoroughly appalling game content available in Japan.

    In any case, I agree with Amazon’s decision. It may be hypocritical on grounds of adult content, but I’m sure a clever lawyer would invoke the recent changes to UK pornography law (demming illegal all pornographic material that can be considered "extreme", depicting violence or "forced" situations) and bring a suit against Amazon on the basis of the title alone. As someone else has pointed out, Amazon.com/.co.uk belongs to Amazon and they can do whatever they like, inconsistent or not, in order to maintain business and avoid litigation, even if it offends the small number of principle purists out there.

  18. ZippyDSMlee says:

    I wonder it not become illeagle, it will be another freedom lsot and we need tos top such foolish thigns befor we run ourt of freedoms…

    Child porn is one thing fitioncal child porn is fictional, remove it and something else will be on the ban chopping block until nothing is left but the necks of the repressed.

     


    Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.


    http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com

  19. catboy_j says:

    Although interesting to know that doesn’t really bear much relevance. The issue people seem to have here is this in their mind

    Is sick and twisted because it depicts rape graphically and objectifies women and has limited if any story. So would they feel the same if it was a Woman, raping a man and his family for dumping her? Would they still feel men were objectified? That this was the most agregious offence possible in the gaming world?

  20. Mattsworkname says:

    Actually, theres a recently released game that features that concept, though it does no show it in Detail. I dont’ wanna spoil anything, but it was released in the last week and does feature a scene of implied girl on man rape, but no real detail is shown, and theres debate about weather or not it was real or a halucination.

     

     

    Yukimura is still here "Honor, that is what matters, isn’t it? " Yukimura Sanada, from Samurai warriors 2

  21. Mattsworkname says:

    It’s never not interesting to me to see the varied levels of opinon on any given subject. In the case of this subject, it ranges from "It’s only a game" to Outright disgust.

     

    In the end, you people need to remember something very important. THis is japan were talking about, the country that created Tenticle porn for crying out loud. That a game would be made there that depicts rape? hardly a shock there. Now, I deplore rape in real life. Just the same as I deplore murder. But the fact is, this game isn’t hurting anyone. It may offend some people, but, they aren’t gonna have a phsyical problem just cause the game exsists.

    Theres games that allow murder, yet we hardly bat an eye? This debate, while I find it impressive and respect your views, seems almost hypocritical to me. And it does prove, in a way, the puritian mentality that exsists, both here in the us and to a certain extent, in the UK.

    It’s a game, not a video, not a movie, not real. if this were a video, depicting an actual rape, I’d be all over it, cause REAL crime had been commited. But it’s not, it’s a cloud of 1s and zeros. Nothing more.

    If it offends you, well, thats your reaction to it, and I respect that. But don’t go calling for a ban on something when the US cutlure allows something just as bad to a common part of our every day entertainment. Im refering to murder.

    Rape fantasy is a popular form of adult entertainment in Japan, but, the key word is Fantasy. Japan has the most HARD core rape laws you can find, they take the subject really seriously, but there also willing to accept that there is a subset of people that have a fantasy about it, both men and women I might add.

    Anyway, dont’ think that just cause Amazon pulled it, this matter is over. Like I said before, this can be found easily on ANY major torrent site.

    Amazon just removed a legal form of purchase, but theres hundreds of illegal ways to get it.

    Oh, and this isn’t the only game in japan to feature rape. Theres plenty. I don’t condone rape, but im not calling for them to be banned either.

     

     

    Yukimura is still here "Honor, that is what matters, isn’t it? " Yukimura Sanada, from Samurai warriors 2

  22. Kincyr says:

    But there’s just no way you can make rape funny or light-hearted (if you tried, it’d be even worse for you, I’d imagine).

    how ’bout granting rape options in a game, all of which leading straight to game-over messages, that ridicule the player for making such a stupid choice?

    Example: (after choice) "It has already been established that she is a second-degree blackbelt and she is accompanied by fellow students of her dojo. Are you even trying anymore?" (depending on the stupidity of your part and/or the comedy level of the game, you may be taken back to the same screen, although with the Rape choice removed)

    seriously, the first H-game I played had exactly one rape-option in the story somewhere, leading straight to a game-over. wasn’t light-hearted however.

    岩「…Where do masochists go when they die?」

  23. JC says:

    I don’t think it is the internet, just an old silly man who happens to be in control of Britian, and as you said, is using this to make a fuss. Most people who use the internet and play games likely know there is much worse out there, unless they are in the 40s+ range…

    Bashing Haitians? Wasn’t GP still in LiveJournal format back then? I still say crying over over that, RE5 and RE4 is still silly.

  24. Kincyr says:

    well I can say for certain that if the US goes to war with Japan over this then I’ll have no qualms about defecting from the US.

    岩「…Where do masochists go when they die?」

  25. Kincyr says:

    "No children were used in the making of this production"

    can’t say the same thing for those Pampers commercials with infant nudity they aired back then when I was trying to watch cartoons while eating dinner

    岩「…Where do masochists go when they die?」

  26. kurbster says:

    You know…they still sell it on amazon.co.jp (quite alot of resellers, actually)

    http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B000EQ5IAM/ref=sr_1_1

    They might have a policy only allowing to sell ESRB-rated games in the states.  The ESRB do rate hentai games as well, and for the AO rating, publishers get to release it uncensored .  Doing a search brought up a few common hentai games like ‘Do You Like Horny Bunnies’ and ‘Discipline’…which were both given a AO rating by the ESRB….both uncensored…and both worthy fapping material

    so I dunno….there might be a terms of use violation behind this…

  27. garrett says:

    HEY! I can’t get a rape video game at Amazon, but I can:

    -rent "Last house on the Left" directly with amazon Video on Demand for 2.99!

    -Buy "I Spit on Your Grave" No court would ever convict her.

    -Buy (gulp) "Virgin Spring".

    -Buy Irreversible, complete with vomit inducing camara work, flashing lights that cause attacks, and many other "deplorable" acts. OH, and yes, a 13 minute rape scene.

    -Get the full uncut version of "9 Songs". Artsy fellatio, cunnulingus, and penetration, Oh My! Someone, please, tell me again why this movie was NOT considered porn??

    And I don’t even want to go into the long list of products that Amazon allows, like Blow up dolls, sexual gratification tools, and How To books and videos for the perv in you.

    Thanks to the news, we should expect more people to hunt for Rapelay in a variety of ways.

     

  28. kurbster says:

    ah…a favorite of mine….

    but yeah…Little Monica is the name of the town it takes place in.  Another examples of judging a book by its cover

  29. Ashkihyena says:

    That and they’re opening the flood gates for other people to bitch about the other adult stuff on their site as well.

  30. Ashkihyena says:

    Smooth move Amazon, you’re setting yourself up for politicans to bitch about the other adult stuff on your site, you’re pretty much opening yourself up to be hit hard.

  31. Kincyr says:

    So let me get this straight – rape in a game is disgusting and should be banned.  But rape in the bible is fine and should not be banned.

    I’m used to such blatant hypocrisy from politicians.

    fixed

    岩「…Where do masochists go when they die?」

  32. Kincyr says:

    exactly! this is what we’ve been saying to JT for years. as further proof, I mentioned SexKey as an example that age-verification systems use only a credit card number (that one he endorses whose name escapes me uses name and address, pedo-alert!) to him on the comments to his Utah article and he ignored it completely.

    岩「…Where do masochists go when they die?」

  33. mdo7 says:

     

    or when a serial killer say Higarushi No Naku Koro Ni made him do it

    or when a polygamist say Harem anime like Love Hina, or Tenchi Muyo made him do it.

    or when a skilled thief with stealth movement said Naruto, and ninja anime made him do it.

     

    I met a lot of anime haters on youtube, a lot of them are acting like their video game hater counterpart.  I even met some haters with something I called "Jack Thompson complex".  Small percentages, huh.  I think it can grow if anti-gaming politicians attack anime next.  Worse, if JT manage to reach out to anime haters on Youtube, he can form a new cult to target video game and anime.  He can tell the anime haters that the video game industry has betray them because video game have team up with anime industry (you know Xbox Live and Playstation Network selling anime on their stores, next GTA may take place in Tokyo with possible cel-shaded anime animation and J-pop,rock, rap on the in-game radio station, or Tomb Raider using Final Fantasy game engine after Square-Enix bought out Eidos Interactive).  Those small percentages will rise and anime haters will become Jack Thompson’s succesor or anime haters will become video game haters if the video game industry starts to use anime/manga/JRPG or any Japanese influences more in their game.     

  34. Kincyr says:

    you do know that ‘Little Monica’ is the name of the town, right?

    岩「…Where do masochists go when they die?」

  35. Bennett Beeny says:

    So let me get this straight – rape in a game is disgusting and should be banned.  But multiple killings in a game is fine and should not be banned.

    I’m not used to blatant hypocrisy from GP.  Hopefully it’s due to some sort of temporary mental imbalance.

  36. Adrian Lopez says:

    "That being said, there is NO WAY to age verify this kind of thing on Amazon and it shouldn’t be sold in that kind of venue."

    Yes there is. Credit cards are considered a valid proof of age for the purposes of purchasing material that is illegal to sell to minors. Think about it: if that weren’t the case, it would be illegal to subscribe to porn sites with just a credit card — and it isn’t.

  37. Adrian Lopez says:

    "It’s just that it hasn’t been tested or applied yet."

    Such a ban has been tested — by the Supreme Court, no less — and determined to be unconstitutional way back in 2002. Thanks for playing, though.

  38. Adrian Lopez says:

    "I honestly don’t have a lot of trouble with the outlawing of certain content if it is the will of the majority."

    I expect you’d be singing a different tune if the content being outlawed through the "will of the majority" were something you actually cared about. Think outside your own self and society and apply the concept as a general principle. Think of the number of people who’d be offended by drawings of Muhammad and ask yourself whether their outrage warrants any form of censorship. Think of the people in the past who’d be offended by any kind of speech that dared to question religious dogma and ask yourself whether the "will of the majority" should ever "trump free speech".

    There’s no such thing as a right to not be offended, and society could hardly function if it seriously allowed people’s sense of moral outrage to alone determine what is and is not permitted. Truth is determined by fact, not by opinion. Laws based on emotion rather than cold clinical fact must not be tolerated.

  39. mikemil828 says:

    Wow, the internet goes into a fit over a pirated, nearly 3 year old game that some guy burned onto a few discs, so that he could scam some money off of the gullible on Amazon Marketplace, not knowing that eventually some British MP who, in need of a issue he can run on, would type ‘rape’ into an Amazon search and happily stumble upon his racket and use it to make a fuss.

    Weren’t you guys bashing some Haitian interest group for being a year late in noticing a directive to ‘Kill all the Haitians’ in Vice City a couple years back?

  40. bgmnt says:

    Porn games have been around in the video game industry ever since the start. I remember a few (horribly programmed/rip off) games for the Atari 2600, like "Beat ’em and Eat ’em"

  41. bgmnt says:

    In a sense, Amazon is digging it’s own grave by removing this product.

    Western audiences are STILL going to want to get this game, even if it was removed off the shelf (heck, that may even add to the stigma behind the game, thus in it’s on way promoting the game a-la "Postal".)

    Since the western audience can’t buy it in a store (unless you look at a mom-and-pop anime shop), the people who want to play this game are now going to hit the world of piracy, looking up torrents for said game, not only causing loss of profit to the Japanese publishers, but loss of profit for Amazon’s commisions.

    So, even though Amazon is trying to remain goody two shoes as far as morality and beliefs go, in a sense, it’s a blow to their income.

  42. JC says:

    George Carlin, who died last year, was a genius, and yes he made rape funny.

    I’d give some samples, but judging from Andrew’s mention of GP deleting his joke, I won’t display it here.

     

  43. Arell says:

    It’s already illegal in several countries, and the framework for similar restrictions in the US exist in Federal law.  It’s just that it hasn’t been tested or applied yet.  Once it does hit the courts, however, it’s likely that there will be Constitutional objections.  The other countries that ban it don’t have "free speech" hardwired into their constitutions, if they even have one, so it didn’t meet much resistance when they made virtual child pornography illegal.  It’s anyone’s guess how it will play out in the US once someone finally takes notice.

    I do know that if someone is caught with real child pornography, any additional lolicon found at the scene can be included as evidence and apply to the charges.  To date, no one has been brought up on charges for just lolicon.  Not even in Canada, where it is illegal.

    I personally choose to remain neutral, and will not care if it remains legal or becomes illegal.

  44. Nekowolf says:

    God damn it, Amazon.

    Well, I guess it’s off to eBay then, eh? Is Keith Vaz going to go after eBay next? Dear god, THEY might have rape h-games, too!

  45. nighstalker160 says:

    I gotta say, good for Amazon.

    If adults want to buy this game, sure, not my thing, but it is your right to purchase it.

    That being said, there is NO WAY to age verify this kind of thing on Amazon and it shouldn’t be sold in that kind of venue.

  46. hayabusa75 says:

    Happened to me too, in the old story about Kevin McCullough.

    "There is no sin except stupidity." – Oscar Wilde

  47. Arell says:

    As I went into great detail in the other topic about this game (so I won’t do it again, feel free to search for my posts over there), I honestly don’t have a lot of trouble with the outlawing of certain content if it is the will of the majority.  This particular issue causes two of my principles to clash, so I’m taking a back seat on judgement.  But, like for Canada and Australia, I have no issue that they make virtual child pornography illegal.  If It was legal, I would no issue with that, either.  I don’t see freedom of speech as an absolute that must be applied to anything and everything.  If enough people reasonably object to something, then that can sometimes trump free speech.  Not always, but sometimes.  Even the will of the majority is not an absolute.  There must be balance.

    But like I said, I’m not going to repost my arguements.  If you find what I just said objectionable, feel free to see a more detailed explanation in the other topic.

  48. Paulrus says:

    I want lolicon banned SO badly in this country, but like the Gailmen quote up there suggests, everything that isn’t even related will be beaten to death by the legislatures.

    So i’ll just grit my teeth and call it child porn from my front yard like a good American.

    I’m an attention whore. So visit my DevaintArt and feed my ego. Feed the whore. http://keaton2008.deviantart.com/

  49. dan888 says:

    I just want to mention, that "dark hentai" games like this are released in large numbers in Japan, there are plenty of other games just like this.  For example, games like this is pretty much all that the company "Lilith" produces.  Someone fantranslated one of their games, and the translated English name was "The Gang Rape Club".  Other than being in this controversy, titles like this are nothing unique in Japan.

     

    Farthermore, some people disagreed that something like this should exist.  A good number of comments already address this, but I’ll post this anyways.  Although pure rape games aren’t something that I am interested in, as long as no real person is harmed in the making of something, there is absolutly no reason to ever suggest that they shouldn’t be allowed to make and release what they want (applies to all hentai, porn, non porn, anything).  Otherwise you are saying that others are justified in trying to ban what you enjoy, because that is what you are doing when you say games like this shouldn’t be allowed to exist.

  50. Arell says:

    Because anti-game lobbyists don’t care about the specifics.  They’ve been decrying rape sims for years, and that’s when they were talking about GTA (which has no rape in it).  The fact that there has been no rape in any rated video game since the ESRB started, or that the only western game on record to even depict rape was an 80s game called Custer’s Revenge (that nobody played or remembers), didn’t matter to them.  Now that their attention has been brought to the crapload of rape and lolicon games out of Japan, they’re going to raise even more hell.  It doesn’t matter if they aren’t intended for western audiences (some actually are, since they are localized and available for direct download), and it doesn’t matter if they aren’t mainstream or rated by the ESRB.

    If anything, it’s going to be bad news when they realize they haven’t been rated by the ESRB.  The anti-game people have been trying to throw a leash around the ESRB forever.  The fact that games are submitted voluntarily and don’t require ratings, coupled with the fact that rape games are floating around out there, will only inflame the issue.

  51. gamadaya says:

    lol, what did you do to find that? Just searched "lolicon"?

    ———————————

    Internet troll > internet paladin

  52. gamadaya says:

    I don’t see how his opening and closing statements contradict each other. And western gamers may have a ho-hum approach to in-game murders, but that doesn’t mean the Japanese do. GP doesn’t say it’s the right thing to do when Japan refuses to classify a game due to it’s violence. Free speach is held in high regaurd then, but not so much when rape is involved. In reality, censorship is never "the right thing to do."

    ———————————

    Internet troll > internet paladin

  53. Paulrus says:

    Look man, I was going to be a little smartassy about this, particulary about how your opening and closing statements contradict each other, but I just got a taste of how that feels and I’m still letting it sink in.

    But the reason why it was found so outrageous by GP probably had to do with the fact it exists. You see, Western gamers have taken a ho-hum approach to in-game murders. I’m going to guess that it has something to do with the fact that rape isn’t something we’re accustomed to seeing. I’m disturbed that Japan is, but I can’t go around forcing them to change that. 

    I’m an attention whore. So visit my DevaintArt and feed my ego. Feed the whore. http://keaton2008.deviantart.com/

  54. Arell says:

    Certain websites, like Ebay, remove products from being purchased when they are illegal in certain countries.  Like, you can’t find Nazi memoribilia for sale because it would block the site from access to Germany.  Amazon doesn’t carry lolicon because it is illegal in several countries (though maybe for other reasons as well).

    Additionaly, as a free market company, they have the right to accept or remove any products they choose, and for just about any reason.  If they thought that this rape game would cause too much controversy for their site, then they have every right to remove it.  Hell, if they thought it was just in poor taste, they had the right to remove it.  If they didn’t like how the seller spelled his name, they could remove it.  It’s their business.

    And everyone here is free to boycott Amazon, if it offends your principles that much.

  55. catboy_j says:

    I would like to know why GP finds this game so outrageous while condoning murder in other games. And why taking it off amazon is the right thing. I might also add that I don’t find rape to be the worst crime in the world. Pretty bad yes, but at least you’re not dead for whatever damage when it’s over. One of the worst crimes yes. But this is fictional. NO VICTIMS.

  56. Father Time says:

    "But there’s just no way you can make rape funny or light-hearted (if you tried, it’d be even worse for you, I’d imagine)."

    George Carlin would like a word with you.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FsfLPohZ_c

    I wonder if there is a way to embed videos here.

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  57. Father Time says:

    I wouldn’t put this anywhere near 25 to life yet. It hasn’t been featured on major news outlets and most of the attention it’s getting will probably die off in about a week or so.

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  58. Rodrigo Ybáñez García says:

    As I said before, the game was intended to be sold in Japan only. Making the game was valid in Japan but some hentai fan decided to sell it in his own country, even when he knew that will carry many problems to him, and now, moronic Keith Vaz has a extremely goos scapegoat to keep his mouth busy.

    This is a cultural problem too, not a moral one. Is bad to make a game about rape. Yes, in this side of the world. But in Japan this game is protected in their own soil. Morality has nothing to do with this.

    The cynical side of videogames (spanish only): http://thelostlevel.blogspot.com/ My DeviantArt Page (aka DeviantCensorship): http://www.darkknightstrikes.deviantart.com/

  59. kurbster says:

    don’t worry…they’ll come up with something.

    Something along the lines of "We can’t validate the age of these animated girls, so by default, they are under 18 and considered child porn."  They are already attacking loli in the USA….it’s only a matter of time

  60. hellfire7885 says:

    I will say this, this game would NEVER have gotten the attention it has had Vaz kept his fat mouth shut about it.

    Now that people know about it, people are going to search for and buy it. It’s 25 to Life all over again.


  61. Andrew Eisen says:

    "But there’s just no way you can make rape funny or light-hearted (if you tried, it’d be even worse for you, I’d imagine)."

    Sure you can.  Unfortunately, the last time I gave an example (in the form of a joke), GP deleted it.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  62. mdo7 says:

    Oh dear,

     

    Let the anime/manga scapegoating begin.  This is kind of a bad sign when I saw this, I know they’re going to blame anime and manga next after this.

  63. ZippyDSMlee says:

    What are they going to do abotu the 700 odd hentai DVDs on there??

    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=hentai&x=0&y=0

    Silly amazon you can’t by pass this by simply removing the game…

     


    Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.


    http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com

  64. Andrew Eisen says:

    Yep.  As I said earlier, Amazon can sell or not sell products as it sees fit.  Is it hypocritical?  Arguably.  They don’t seem to be banning "rape fantasy" so much as "rape fantasy games."  A quick search shows plenty of movies and books (not familiar enough with the contents of the other hentai games) that could be (and have in the past) be described as rape fantasies.

    Even so, it’s still within Amazon’s rights to single out something that specific and decide not to sell it.  Buyers in the market for such games can shop elsewhere.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  65. hayabusa75 says:

    For the record, I’m in agreement with the others who said that Amazon made the wrong move, but I will say this:

    Making a game with rape as your main gameplay mechanic is risky, if for no other reason than there is NO way to gloss over rape like you can with other hot button video game content issues like murder.  You can take out blood, you can make the corpes disappear, you can add comical screams or one-liners when guys die, etc.

    But there’s just no way you can make rape funny or light-hearted (if you tried, it’d be even worse for you, I’d imagine).

    "There is no sin except stupidity." – Oscar Wilde

  66. netcrusher88 says:

    This isn’t hypocritical at all on the part of Amazon. Yes, they sell porn. They even sell pornographic video games. But they choose to draw the line at rape-based pornography (hereafter referred to as rape fantasy). If you search Amazon, you’ll find they don’t carry rape fantasy DVDs either.

    They’re not banning hentai games, they’re banning rape fantasy. And don’t try to say RapeLay isn’t about rape – look it up. The story? You as the main character rape three girls until you "break" them. After that it’s free-play. I don’t see how you could *not* understand how a company would not want to be associated with that.

    And to the people invoking a slippery slope fallacy wondering what Amazon is going to ban next: Amazon just drew the line. They said they don’t tolerate rape fantasy being sold through them.

    There is no government censorship going on here. You can get this game and many others like it many places, even legitimately – jlist, for example (although even they – known for edgy material – choose not to carry some games, and rapelay might be on that list).

    This is a perfectly reasonable, I’d say even extremely lenient, place for a company to draw the line and say no, we will not sell this.

  67. Andrew Eisen says:

    But how could this be bad for the industry?  (I assume you mean the US industry.)

    It was not developed, rated, or sold by the industry.  Or the UK industry for that matter.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  68. vellocet says:

    I’m surprised no one has commented how bad this game is for the industry.

    No politician or anyone is going to care that it’s only for sale in japan.  Nobody cared that Hot Coffee could only be accessed with a cheat device (not even just a cheat code) or downloaded mod.  All of a sudden ALL games had hidden sex scenes.

    The only thing the "think of the children" types will care about is that some game contained this filth and was available on Amazon.

     

  69. Chaltab says:

    I’m ambivalent. On one hand, a rape game is in terrible taste.

    On the other, if this can be banned, what else might Amazon ban in the name of decency? Will they stop selling Harry Potter if the nutjobs who think it’s the epitome of evil whine loud enough?

  70. Adrian Lopez says:

    The thing is that not all pornography is considered obscene. Thus, people are free to create non-obscene virtual child pornography.

  71. G-Meister says:

    "There’s no such thing as a right to not be offended, and society could hardly function if it seriously allowed people’s sense of moral outrage to alone determine what is and is not permitted."

    People do have such a right, it’s just that they have to defend it in ways other than through legislation or the court system. If a store sells something that offends you badly enough, go to a different store, or don’t go to that part of the store.

    Just as much as you have the right to not be offended, you also have the right to *not* look at offensive material.

    Of course, my problem is that I’m having a heck of a internal struggle with this. I don’t want to condem this game, because to do so is to later risk being forced to condem things I like. On the other hand, I’m having a hard time saying that a game with this content is okay. I don’t think I could look my mother in the eye, if it came to that, and tell her that a game about rape is okay.

    I guess I’ll just have to grit my teeth and try to accept that everyone has their personal demons to feed.

  72. Father Time says:

    A 1968 United States Supreme Court decision which held that people could view whatever they wished in the privacy of their own homes caused the United States Congress to fund the President’s Commission on Obscenity and Pornography, set up by President Lyndon B. Johnson to study pornography.

    The commission’s report, called Report of the Commission on Obscenity and Pornography, and published in 1970, recommended sex education, funding of research into the effects of pornography and restriction of children’s access to pornography, and recommended against any restrictions for adults. The report was widely criticized and rejected by Congress.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President%27s_Commission_on_Obscenity_and_Pornography

    "Several weeks ago, the National Commission on Obscenity and Pornography-appointed in a previous administration-presented its findings.

    I have evaluated that report and categorically reject its morally bankrupt conclusions and major recommendations.

    So long as I am in the White House, there will be no relaxation of the national effort to control and eliminate smut from our national life."

    Richard M. Nixon
    October 24, 1970

    http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=2759

     

    And how exactly do you plan on fighting this cancer if you’re not advocating bans?

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  73. BearDogg-X says:

    And yet another jabroni troll runs his mouth.

    And yet another instance of using "studies" that amount to talking about absolutely nothing at all.

    Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.


    Proud supporter of the New Orleans Saints, LSU, 1st Amendment; Real American; Hound of Justice; Even through the darkest days, this fire burns always

    Saints(3-4), LSU(7-0)

  74. omar says:

     

    Harry10 you are a brave man! While the rest of these guys hide behind the freedom of speech act and some bogus ideology that culture has no shaping influences on the individual, there are other men who are right behind you bro! We have to stand up and let these sleezy creeps know that although, as you continually pointed out, we cannot ban the representations of their hellish nightmare of a sexuality, we can join together and take comfort that there are men out there strong enough to fight this cancer!
     
    Here are some quotes that confirm that there are like minded men who will not be silenced by those who peddle in pain and fear by same old freedom of speech rant! You need to read this book harry10 as it will restore your faith in men: Getting Off: Pornography and the End of Masculinity, Robert Jensen 2007
     
    ‘The self, born vulnerable, forms identity through identifying with “images” (Lacan)
     
    Video games’ shape real-world identities based upon the overlap (not the differences) in the virtual self and the real-world self (Griffin 2007)
     
    Porn director Jules Jordan says: "One of the things about today’s porn and the extreme market, so many fans want to see so much more extreme stuff that I’m always trying to figure out ways to do something differently. But it seems everybody wants to see a girl doing double penetration now or a gang-bang. A lot of fans are becoming a lot more demanding about wanting to see the more extreme stuff. It’s definitely brought porn somewhere, but I don’t know where it’s headed from there." (2007)
     
    Harvard studies found that: ‘Consumers of pornography are likely to believe that women want violent sex, want multiple partners at the same time, and want to be dominated and degraded. This unfortunately is how more and more men view "sex" and the role of women in their lives. When women challenge or won’t conform to the role that pornography presents them, they are seen as cold or as "bitches." (2008)…
     
    These men here your pain bro. 
  75. catboy_j says:

    IMO murder is worse because you are dead. Have you heard the rapesurvivor mantra which is essentially you aren’t dead, carry on with your life, one moment doesn’t define you as a person.

  76. Andrew Eisen says:


    Are you sure you replied to the right comment?  Your post doesn’t make any sense as a reply to mine.

    Andrew Eisen

  77. Chaplain99 says:

    Is it?  We can discuss semantics all we want, but murder and rape aren’t necessarily the same.

     

    "HEY! LISTEN!"

  78. Chaplain99 says:

    This issue is a touchy one.  On one hand, by not pulling off the game, Amazon might be seen as promoting rape.  By pulling it, though, they protect their image.  Which is more important to Amazon, the 99% of consumers that aren’t buying the game, or the 1% outraged that they’re denied this game?

     

    "HEY! LISTEN!"

  79. Karsten Aaen says:
    "Harvard studies found that: ‘Consumers of pornography are likely to believe that women want violent sex, want multiple partners at the same time, and want to be dominated and degraded. This unfortunately is how more and more men view "sex" and the role of women in their lives. When women challenge or won’t conform to the role that pornography presents them, they are seen as cold or as "bitches." (2008)…"
     
    I think this is very near the truth that this is what most consumers of pornography belive or thinks in regards to women. I don’t know it is in other countries, but in Denmark the fashion sexually right now is that women do want sexual partners, often 2-3 or more, at the same time. Swinger-clubs are doing OK, even better than OK. Some women (or most women) also like to be dominated in an
    S/M-like way, role-playing ‘submission’ games with men (or women). Most Danish women I know would like to feel the masculinity of their man, and by that I mean, that she safely can put her fate – at least sexually – in the hands of her husband or boyfriend. She wants to feel his desire – for her.
     
    This has absolutely nothing to do with how Danish women perform on the jobmarket. There’s a time and place for everything. And the sexual acts are for the weekend and the evenings, maybe the vacations, too.
     
    As for Amazon pulling the game, I don’t really care. They can do whatever they want. It is their site. However, I still think adults should be allowed to buy and play this game. I want to say that I strongly oppose rape and think it should be punished severely. However, as someone already pointed out, you can buy the game ‘irreversible’ on amazon with the full 13 minutes rape scene; you can probably also buy the movies ‘saw’ and ‘postal’ — very violent movies. You can probably also still buy a game like Condemned on amazon…
     
    And while we may abhor over such a game, I’m actually more abhorred and appalled over the torture scene in Wrath of the Lich King, the expansion pack for WoW. I don’t go out demanding that this game be removed…from amazon… because I know that one day someone will complain about Mass Effect (someone already did, it seems) or Dragon Age: Origins….where you can kill an innocent? man in a cage… just to get a key…
     
     
  80. Sukasa says:

    The one flaw you can likely see in theory about these japanese games is that Japan has a relatively low crime rate for an industrial nation.  Now, we will likely not know how many japanese play games like Rapelay, but if there was a cause and effect like you believe above, then crime in Japan would be alot higher.  People get "screwed up" by lots of things in this world, are we going to go around and ban anything and everything that screws us up(or what we believe causes us to be screwed, ie a fundamentalist christian would likely demand that anytihing that they believe associates evil, maybe Harry Potter books, should be banned from production/market)?

    People have been killing and raping long before games or even mass media came about.  Perhaps, these people were just inclined to commit a violent crime, even if they never touched these violent games/porn.  However, if you are advocating the banning of material that can promote violence, we should likely also include the bible, koran, and any other book/media that has been used to justify violence or people used to support their violence.  Lets not be hypocritical at least.

    Yes, Rapelay like games are likely offensive.  However, to be fair lots of things could be considered offensive.  Like the above, to a fundamentalist christian, a book on vampires/witchcraft or some sexuality book at your local bookstore would likely be considered offensive and they may demand that it be pulled off the shelf.  Then again some non christian may be offended by the christian fiction/living or the bible section of a book store and may demand it be removed.  Where does it stop?  Pretty soon a retail store wouldn’t have anything on their shelves.

     

  81. Andrew Eisen says:

    "(Again, I don’t understand how one enjoys a rape game if one considers rape to be wrong and hurtful. But I’ve plastered that all over the comments by now.)"

    The exact same way one enjoys a murder game even though one considers murder to be wrong and hurtful.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  82. Littlemog says:

    It’s theoretically possible that, had your ideas of fiction and reality not already been entirely set in stone, they could be swayed by "damaging" material (such as a game that gets the protagonist, who is controlled by you, to rape a woman and children).

    Besides which, some more sensitive people might just be disturbed by it enough to bother them for quite a while.

    None of these studies say "every single person that witnesses these acts/games/etc is affected", they say some do, usually in comparison with a control group where fewer or none do.

    Other studies say objectifying material correlates to violence against women. For obvious reasons this must be taken with a pinch of salt; people that are already violent against women are likely to go for said material. And nowhere does it suggest that a normal person will instantly be transformed into a rapist by watching/interacting with the material.

    It would be the complete and utter submersion into the theme – surrounding yourself with the material so much that it skews what you believe to be ‘normal’ – that would be most damaging.

     

    (Again, I don’t understand how one enjoys a rape game if one considers rape to be wrong and hurtful. But I’ve plastered that all over the comments by now.)

  83. BearDogg-X says:

    Then don’t shove this alledged "research" in people’s face and expect them to listen.

    We’re simply not seeing this fallacy of yours. Denying what, exactly? Buddy, I can sense bullshit through eight miles of lead enforced concrete through a blizzard and on a distant planet in a galaxy far far away, so who’s interested in what’s going on in society again? The status quo is fine from my vantage point.

    If you want to talk about "proper science", science cannot actually prove something true; it can only prove something false. You will never hear a decent scientist call anything "truth", because science doesn’t deal in truth, that’s why everything’s called a "theory".

    Finally, this "big experiment" goes back to parenting. Sounds to me like you’re trying to blame this non-existant "problem" on Hollywood or something instead on the parents that allow their children to view what they want.

    Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.


    Proud supporter of the New Orleans Saints, LSU, 1st Amendment; Real American; Hound of Justice; Even through the darkest days, this fire burns always

    Saints(3-4), LSU(7-0)

  84. catboy_j says:

    So let me get this straight? Cause I enjoy rape fantasy and perhaps even a game about it I don’t know how to treat women right? Or Men? I can’t establish a difference between fiction and reality?

  85. Andrew Eisen says:

    "It’s a bit like what’s happened for guys who have seen action and had their experiences completely ignored."

    Do correct me if I’m wrong but are you comparing the trauma resulting from the real horror war vets witnessed and participated in to people playing video games and experiencing an obvious virtual fantasy?

     

    Andrew Eisen

  86. omar says:

    And all your doing is denying the growing amount of scientific evidence that some people, shock horror, are damaged by interacting with violent porn games. What you’ve got to realise is that more and more men will come forward with complaints of psychological disturbances and difficulties after playing these games because they are relatively, in the history of modern society, new and few.

    We are seeing a big experiment going on with more and more exposed to this shit at younger and younger ages. As these guys grow up and get older we are going to see the real consequences of masses of men being exposed to this sort of garbage.

    But hey, if you don’t like what they have to say don’t listen! Some of us are interested in what is going in society and not just our own circle. It’s hard to be objective and way up all the information yourself, but hey that’s proper science and that’s what I believe in.

    Thank God for impartial scientific debate!

  87. BearDogg-X says:

    All you’re doing is selling a junk science book based on maybe a few people out of millions and millions who haven’t been affected at all.

    Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.


    Proud supporter of the New Orleans Saints, LSU, 1st Amendment; Real American; Hound of Justice; Even through the darkest days, this fire burns always

    Saints(3-4), LSU(7-0)

  88. omar says:

    Ignorance is bliss eh. It won’t matter how much solid scholarship comes out about this, as there is already so much of it, some people will still stick their heads in the sand.

    It makes you realise why good research and science is just wasted. People are going to believe what they want to believe. Which is a part of what Jensen talks about in his book, people just don’t want to acknowledge the data regardless of the huge variety of sources that are saying the same thing.

    Even when it comes from gamers, porn makers and men coming forward to say that they have been really screwed up by playing really violent games and in particular with violent sexual content.

    There is something about the psychology sexual identity that CAN be badly affected for a signficant percentage of men. Once you read this book you will see how some guys are really affected by watching violent Japanese games and it takes them ages and lots of therapy to get these images out of their heads, particularly in their subconscious dreams and sex fantasies. 

    But these guys experiences are being ignored completely and worse; are shot down and regected and new players are not aware that games can leave an imprint on the subconscious. It’s a bit like what’s happened for guys who have seen action and had their experiences completely ignored.

     

  89. Andrew Eisen says:

    "Again, this all boils down to your stance on rape.  Is it right, or is it wrong?"

    Real rape?  It’s wrong, obviously.

    "If it’s depicted in a videogame, is it wrong to sell it?"

    No.

    "Is it wrong to make a profit from it…"

    No.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  90. Chaplain99 says:

    Again, this all boils down to your stance on rape.  Is it right, or is it wrong?  If it’s depicted in a videogame, is it wrong to sell it?  Is it wrong to make a profit from it, or should ethics be your main concern when producing this sort of merchandise?

    Personally, the issue of rape doesn’t concern me.  I’ve been a great proponent of "If it hasn’t happened to you, don’t debate about it."  However, I’d hate to see this topic degrade to a shooting match between people who claim sovereign right to freedom of expression and people who see this game as an affront to women everywhere.  We should be mindful of the fact that it is Amazon’s actions that are up for debate, not your stance on rape.

     

    "HEY! LISTEN!"

  91. Andrew Eisen says:

    "If that guy is the only guy in the game, he becomes "the everyman" (that is, representitive of all men, because there is no alternative representation)"

    Sorry, I just don’t agree.  First of all, there are other male characters in the game although most are undefined background characters (the other people on the subway, for example).  Even if this game took place in the house with only the three girls and the player character, I still don’t believe he’s a representation of all men.  Only that particular guy.

    If anything it’s a commentary (though I’d say mere plot device) on the spoiled children of corrupt politicians (the player character is arrested for molesting the girls on the train but is let go thanks to the string pulling done by his politician father).

     

    Andrew Eisen

  92. Littlemog says:

    If that guy is the only guy in the game, he becomes "the everyman" (that is, representitive of all men, because there is no alternative representation)

     

    To someone who’s 100% confident around men, that’s fine.

    To someone who isn’t… that’s where your problem is.

     

    I used to be one of those paranoid women (so yes, they do exist, and reterospectively I can say it’s a combination of being surrounded by people of the same opinion and who have had terrible experiences, and the media constantly focusing on bad news, rape being the ultimate bad news sympathy jackpot. Also, a fair number of badly written women-oriented tend to use rape as a "sympathy crutch" when trying to get you to empathise with their characters, which also paints a skewed view of men all being rapists)

    It is a social problem – that’s why you get ultra skittish girls that get nervous when they’re alone in the room with a man or when a man talks to them. And then you get the backlash – the all men are evil brutes/animals one, which is just as sexist as anything that comes our way.

  93. PrOtOcoN says:

    "I think this game has been constructed within a global culture of violence against women"

    Wrong.
    This game was made in Japan to cater to the Japanese market. Japanese society is, generalizing and not meaning this in a bad way, rigid. There’s very clear boundaries of what is generally acceptable and what isn’t. In my experience it reminds me in many ways of Germany, there are things that are ok and then things that are just wrong, and for those of us growing up in more liberal or "free" nations it can be abit hard to imagine.

    Anyway, the effect of having such a rigid and often restrictive social framework means that when people seek expression they tend to do so favoring the extremes. Since I’d classify Rapelay as porn, then lets look at the porn markets in both nations. Japan has a reputation for "extreme" porn, fetishes primarily. The kind of stuff that, to the new viewer, is just sick and depraved. I’m not referring to "rape fantasy" here, the image I had in my mind involved 12 women, one man and lots of milk…but lets not get into that here.
    Germany is much the same in this regard. South Park immortalized german "Scheisse" porn and there’s plenty more along the same lines in their Adult industry.

    But it’s not just porn. Music and fashion, often geared towards being offensive or "in your face old man!". People seek extreme expression to make up for what they might perceive as restrictive societal demands.
    Mind you, I’m only speaking from experience and not quoting any studies like you do. Lots of fancy studies you reference there…oh wait…you don’t reference any do you? How’s about doing that, like author, subject, ISBN number etc.

    I’ll be honest.
    I’ve been exposed to porn…for a long time. It’s motivated by curiosity rather than sex that I’ve seen some pretty freaky things, as have we all that surf these often disturbingly sticky webs. A game like Rapelay is simply a smooth game client to go with a culture and a market that’s been around for a very, very long time. And you know what? I really don’t mind it existing.
    Infact, if this is just the thing someone was looking for? Great for him or her. And if I would want to purchase that game I would want to be able to. I could look at anime violence, rape, murder or dismemberment all day long.

    But you know what makes me gag? What makes my stomach physically feel my heavy and I avert my eyes? It’s not a horse sex marathon, or somesort of rape game. It’s the real counterpart. Real violence, real rape.
    Speak for yourself when you think this game is disgusting, I don’t. I think it could be interesting even and certainly this controversy has sparked my interest.
    I’ve been called a rapist loads of times. There’s a kind of feminist movement around here that’s so two faced I half expect it to start flipping a silver dollar to decide things. On one hand all men are evil rapist misogynists and on the other THEY just need to learn to respect women so we can all be equal.
    You know what? To hell with them. I’m opposed to feminism, I despise the concept of it and condemn their works. Why? Am I opposed to women? Not at all, I’m the first to speak up against inequality or somesort of preference based off of gender or race or religion or nationality. But I don’t want feminism, I want equality. Feminism is inequal in its concept. Sure, they say they want to make sure things are balanced on all sides but I’ve never, EVER seen them attempt to make things equal for men in inequal positions and there’s plenty of cases of that. Just last summer I was working as a inventory manager at a local hospital. 11 out of 12 department directors were women, all their assistants were women. Men? They got the grunt work. Lift boxes, operate heavy machinery, handymen. All stereotypical male jobs. I figured, since I’ve got experience in supply management and have got plenty of office experience I could just apply for being department head when that position became available.
    You know what? I, and two other men got pushed aside in favor of some new woman who had no clue what was going on, had no prior experience, had no certifications in the field. We object and we get the line about too many men in high positions. Err…not in our hospital atleast.

    I have no illusions that for women, this is happening more frequently than it is for men. But for it to be marginalized, to be said "Oh women have it much worse!" is stupid, insensitive and unforward behaviour. We shouldn’t champion the rights of one group while ignoring the other. We can’t want gender equality while ignoring racial equality and vice versa. I do not believe equality can be achieved through limitations to business owners or gender quotas (most absurd thing I’ve ever heard of).

    To summarize:
    I don’t mind rape games, they’re after all just games. It really is that simple. I don’t think that the girl in the game is real nor a real personification of women. Once you go down that road I can dredge up plenty of examples of men being stereotyped. Can I use every weapon imaginable? Is my stomach a washboard? Can I bend steel and punch out Aliens? Am I gruff and think about nothing than murder and rape? Do I love nothing more than to beat people up and urinate on them before/after setting them on fire?
    Ofcourse not, don’t be silly, those are just video game characters. It’s pixelated violence, it’s pixelated rape.

    Do I respect your opinion of it? I do. Would I ever force you to buy it? No. Do you have ANY right to bar me from buying it? No…none whatsoever. Respect goes both ways and to everyone, even the people you think are sick, twisted, perverts, from a lesser race, weaker sex…you see where I’m going with this?

  94. Andrew Eisen says:

    Your posts are very hard to read.  Would you mind breaking up your posts into paragraphs?

     

    Andrew Eisen

  95. harry10 says:

    Weird. I am not saying you or I are like that. Speaking out about portraying men in this way doesn’t mean you are suggesting that all men are like that. Quite the contrary, you are saying that you are not like that and that you think it’s appalling etc. I don’t want to get into a debate about women’s fear of rape, there’s been so many recent studies concerning this that it is really a mute point (for example see for example the New Statesman Rape the forgotten issue for links on reliable state etc). I don’t want to reduce this to an individual v’s society issue either, but if you think that people are not shaped by what they see and hear going on around them then you and I are going to have to disagree. I think this game does not stand alone, I think this game has been constructed within a global culture of violence against women and I think it both reflects and further constructs that social environment. We are not islands floating around not shaped by culture. There is too much media representing men as violent sexual monsters and not enough men stating publically that they are angry about men being depicted in this way. That is what I am saying. It is clear that when asked in a massive variety of studies across the globe that women are frightened of being raped by men. What I am saying is that this dreadful game adds to this fear and this pisses my off. I don’t care if you think this is ‘real’, it doesn’t matter. What matters is that it’s affects are real… See the studies for yourself, and if you are wondering, a great deal of them are carried out by men.

  96. NovaBlack says:

    no youve just confirmed my point .

    AGAIN.

    ” Men should speak out about the way they are depicted in this type of shit ”

    WHERE / HOW is this game depicting all men?

    it ISNT. YOU interpret it to be depicting all men. YOU. i.e. it is YOUR fears / assumptions that are the problem.

    ‘I’ am not depicted in any way in this game. That was the point i was making originally. what is ‘this fear that women DO HAVE’. because like i just stated , i know that by asking the women around me RIGHT NOW that they say (their words not mine) are NOT scared of men. so.. you point has JUST BEEN PROVEN WRONG.

    why was a personal rape alarm a best seller? your behaviour answers your own question. Paranoia. People like YOU saying that his game represents all men (which i find downright offensive, because that means your saying I am like that).

     

  97. Andrew Eisen says:

    "Men should speak out about the way they are depicted in this type of shit."

    This game in no way depicts me or men in general so why speak out about it?  As I said before, it’s one playable character.  One.  That’s it.  There is only one rapist and he’s not representative of a real person.  He doesn’t even have a face!  He’s the typical "bangs hiding the eyes" no-name hentai male.

    "Tell me why a personal rape alarm was one of M&S’s biggest sellers last year, or did you miss the ads plastered all over UK bus stops?"

    Can’t answer that.  I don’t know what M&S is and I don’t live in the UK so yes, I missed the bus stop ads.  That said, I’m willing to bet that those ads did more to perpetuate a fear of rape then obscure Japanese hentai video games.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  98. harry10 says:

    Actually your email confirms my point: Men should speak out about the way they are depicted in this type of shit. When they don’t they turn a blind eye to the fear that women DO HAVE. Tell me why a personal rape alarm was one of M&S’s biggest sellers last year, or did you miss the ads plastered all over UK bus stops?

  99. NovaBlack says:

    what?

    wait.. your changing your ENTIRE argument..

    one second it was ‘men’ where sending out these messages, and ‘men’ who were all rapists and whatnot, and that the majority of women are terrified of men, and that men enjoy that,.. and your point to prove that.. is that women i know probably wouldnt like this game?

    How exactly are those statements linked?

    If my mother finds this game ‘scary’ or disgusting, that means that your somehow proven right that the majority of men are as vile as you depict, and that all women think the way you depict? How exactly…? Surely a better test would be to say ‘Hey mum, do you think most men enjoy sexually attacking women, and are you generally scared of men’? (to which she would reply ‘of course not, dont be stupid’).

    Just because she would find this game’s content disgusting has no relavance to your wild claims about the majoritive state of mind of women and men across the world.

    Thats like creating a flash game where pigs fly, and then saying its proof that pigs fly.

    If my mother doesnt like ketchup on her fries, does that mean  that all men are also how you depict? And that all women are scared of men?

    About the same level of logical connection there.

     

    Also .. why do you assume that its only necessary to sit women down and ask if they find this game scary?. Do men’s opinions not count? Do you assume that men have a particularly different opinion of this game to women?  ( i mean you seem to suggest that i ask women since they will find it disgusting, inferring that apparently men will not). Do you not therefore think that perhaps these ‘ideas’ you have about the majoritive state of mind of men and women are  YOUR IDEAS.. and not that of everyone else?

    Im a man and i think this game is disgusting. Is my mothers opinion somehow more important than mine in proving your theory wrong?

  100. Andrew Eisen says:

    Just asked Diane who sits a few cubes down.  She said three things:

    -She doesn’t understand why anyone would want to play it.

    -She doesn’t think it should be banned.

    -She does find the whole idea scary.

    But you know what she’s doing as I type this?  She’s talking to Tom.  She’s not hiding under her desk and she seems to have already forgotten about it.  I’m sure she’ll go about the rest of her day and life just fine.

    And that’s just one person.  I know three girls who would very likely all shrug and say, "So what?"

    EDIT: Just talked to Cheryl.  She said she’s grossed out by the idea and doesn’t understand why anyone would want to play it but that it shouldn’t be banned.  She did say she thought that perhaps access to it should be limited.  She also said that the game does not make her fearful of all men but she might feel uncomfortable around someone who expressed a desire to explore such a fantasy.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  101. catboy_j says:

    This is clearly an extreme example of feminism. And totally ignoring what I said. And BTW my sister, nieces, mom, are not afraid of Men. My sister is in the Air force and probably could kick most mens asses. I’ve had mostly female friends growing up and one was afraid of men, but they were strange adults and she was like 11.

     

  102. Andrew Eisen says:

    "God you must know a lot of poeple to make a generalisation for all women then."

    Where am I making a generalization for all women?

    "…I am sick to death of seeing this crap where men are depicted as cruel and sexually screwed up."

    But that’s not what this game does.  It’s one guy.  That’s it.  One.  It does not appear to be a depiction or commentary on men in general.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  103. harry10 says:

    I tell you what, why don’t you sit your mother, sister, friend, auntie or what ever women you know of down and get her to look the game over and report back to you if she thinks this is not scary hey? Then we’ll talk about what message rape simulation games send out eh…

     

  104. NovaBlack says:

    So… your saying that women ‘have good reason to be’ frightened of ME?

    Your saying that I am ‘still sending really strong messages to them that i like watching them hurting’?

    Your saying that IM turned on by that?

    Your saying IM ‘completely unable to emphasise with someone elses suffering’?

     

    And although you no NOTHING about me, your quite happy to say these absolutely horrible things and base this on the fact that i have an X and a Y Chromosome? thats IT?

    And your saying its media (films/games whatever)  that is sending out these messages?

    Perhaps its actually people like YOU. Take this forum for example, Who has scared more women into thinking men are out the get them. This game… or YOU?

     

     

  105. harry10 says:

    Hmmm so you know of no women frightened of men. God you must know a lot of poeple to make a generalisation for all women then. I wonder why all those rape alarms, protection devices, women’s advice manuals, police advice pamphlets etc etc are there for. I don’t want to talk for women, I want to say that as a man I am sick to death of seeing this crap where men are depicted as cruel and sexually screwed up. You see for me it’s not a matter of whether the individual might hurt the person, i.e. I wouldn’t be pissed off because I thought my mate was going to rape a 10 year old, I’d be pissed off that he was supporting this pathetic dweebs and engaging in this age old stereotype of masculinity. You know when you’re a boy and all you see is shitty porn where all the women are like puppets and that is supposed to turn you on and you think to yourself, hey is that what sex is, is that what other blokes are turned on by? Our identity is socially shaped, we are not born with it. I just wanted to say that as a strait man who likes playing games that I think depicting the rape of women and girls is a really low and shitty thing to do and that yes, I think this is another way to give guys, and gamers, a really rubbish rep!

  106. Andrew Eisen says:

    I have no idea where you are getting your information from but I know no women who live in fear of men.  I know they exist but from my observations, it’s nowhere near as prevalent an issue as you make it out to be.

    "I would totally never talk to my brother or best mate if I caught him playing this, other than suggest that he keeps away from any kid I might one day have…"

    Why?  Do you really think he’s going to rape your kid because he played this video game?  Do you think he’s going to kill somebody because he played Halo, Manhunt, or GTA?

     

    Andrew Eisen

  107. harry10 says:

    Guys what planet are you living on… Do some research, ask women you know, read a woman’s book etc etc. Women are very frightened of men and they have good reason to be. We are still sending really strong messages to them that we like watching them hurting. Full stop. I’m not saying that your average bloke is to blame for real violence to women, although so many women report fending off unwanted advances at some point in their lives that the one bloke cant be doing it all… They are the ones that have to way up the risk factors and here we are talking as if this dreadful game where a little kid is hurt in this way is not going to give women and girls the impression that we don’t care if it frightens them… It does. They are frightened often in their lives of men and a lot of men seem to be turned on by it. The theme of this game is old and very common. The shock is is that it is soooo graphic and the kid is 10! I would totally never talk to my brother or best mate if I caught him playing this, other than suggest that he keeps away from any kid I might one day have… At some point you’ve got to say to these dweebs that being completely unable to empathise with someone elses suffering is not game material. I love my games and this makes me deeply ashamed to be associated with the whole scene. Japanese men should stand up and say that although they won’t ban this stuff, they are deeply offended that they are being depicted in this way. And they should also send a strong message to Japanese women and girls that they respect them and mean them no harm.

  108. catboy_j says:

    Your kind of attitude offends me becauase you won’t take in logic. Your stance also is part of the reason why it’s theorized that Female Child Molesters and rapists get away. You know between the debate on if they actualy exist because men are horny bastards.

    There’s an old saying "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself (And spiders!)" And that’s true for the most part. Including the bit about spiders.

  109. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  110. Littlemog says:

    "Consumers of pornography are likely to believe that women want violent sex, want multiple partners at the same time, and want to be dominated and degraded"

     

    Surely that does say something?

     

    Either, that people who think women want violent sex etc go to porn to find it, which would have no relevence.

    Or, than the portrayal of characters in porn influences (some) people’s ideologies of women.

     

    There are some people whose idealogies are indestructable. They know, 100%, that women deserve equal treatment and that both parties must 100% consent, without coersion, to everything. These people probably recieved good sexual education from their school or parents.

    And there are people whose ideologies are constructed from heresay and half-truths because they never had the opportunity to find out the facts. Rape porn (particularly where the woman ends up enjoying it – never going to happen, even rape fantasy is actually planned with a trusted partner and at least consented) and violent porn games only reinforce these half truths.

    These people are to porn games what children (and nutjobs) are to violent games. They are too suseptable to their influence for it to be safe. The problem is that while you can generalise by age for violence because you generally learn "hitting is bad" in school and if you do hit someone, they’re likely going to squeal about it. With sexual behaviour, that’s often not taught in school (not counting the basics of "put this in here, wear condom, the end" that sex ed consists of more often than not) suddenly you’ve got teenagers and adults that, quite frankly, have no idea what they’re doing.

     

    The woman is then effected because her opinion is desreguarded ("Ha, you’re just playing hard to get, obviously, you want me."), she is treated unfairly when she doesn’t want it because "normal women would", or she’s outrightly raped (which, it goes without saying, is far less common than the previous two)

     

    It also goes without saying that the 1st group of people (the 100% sure, gentlemanly group) probably occupies a far larger population than the 2nd. It’s just that the 2nd are getting more focus here because they are the problem.

  111. BearDogg-X says:

    Where did I say that the jabroni "wasn’t entitled to an opinion"? I was stating an opinion that he was yet another troll.

    Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.


    Proud supporter of the New Orleans Saints, LSU, 1st Amendment; Real American; Hound of Justice; Even through the darkest days, this fire burns always

    Saints(3-4), LSU(7-0)

  112. NovaBlack says:

    … so if this game had rape in a ‘comical context’ that would make it more

     acceptable?

     

    As far as ‘he didnt mention the violent content in the question’ thats a cop out! You still tried to say that gta is allowed since it is ‘tamer’ thank this rape game. I just merely pointed out that that isnt the case.

  113. BearDogg-X says:

    There’s a mission in San Andreas where a guy is tied to the hood of your car and you drive around on the freeway in Las Venturas.

    Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.


    Proud supporter of the New Orleans Saints, LSU, 1st Amendment; Real American; Hound of Justice; Even through the darkest days, this fire burns always

    Saints(3-4), LSU(7-0)

  114. State says:

    If you looked at the previous comment it was clearly about the sexual content contained in the game, he did not question the violence in the game. He clearly compared consensual sex with non-consensual sex, he did not compare the violent content of GTA with the sexual violence of Rapelay.

    Also I can’t actually think of any torture in GTA off the top of my head, but please remind me.

  115. NovaBlack says:

    GTA also has mass murder and torture….

    is rape somehow ‘worse’ than mass murder and torture?

     

    Please clarify.

  116. Andrew Eisen says:


    “In the US… guns aren’t illegal, so the attitude towards banning harmful things is completely different.”

    Sorry but you can’t compare guns to a video game.  Guns can hurt people, video games can’t (at least not unless you hit someone over the head with one really hard).

    I have seen absolutely no evidence supporting the theory that Rapelay or its ilk could cause someone to rape someone else in real life.

    "It’s more the fact that, inevitably, someone will have that horrible upbringing, learn from ‘harmful’ sources that reinforce harmful behaviours. So why not prevent it in the first place."

    Because then you’d be infringing on the rights of those that want to consume such entertainment and where do you stop?

    Let’s say this hypothetical person with no sense of right and wrong and no ability to differentiate between fantasy and reality learned everything he knows from Friday the 13th movies.  Without any other form of input, this person might grow up thinking it’s perfectly acceptable to hack up loose moraled teenagers.  So, because this could possibly happen, should we ban slasher movies?

    And on another note, I don’t think I’ll ever understand how someone can be upset over a game with a rape play mechanic while not batting an eye over the thousands of others where you kill people.  Murder and rape are both horrible, horrible things.  Why is one acceptable as a play mechanic and the other not?

     

    Andrew Eisen

  117. Littlemog says:

    I feel this is where cultural differences come into play.

     

    In the UK, guns are illegal because people that don’t feel they have any responsibility would be completely stupid with them. So, pre-emptively, get rid of the guns, avoid rid of the problem in the first place and prevent a couple of shootings, probably of the crime of passion sort. (Theoretically. Obviously with the exception of the black market). If people were educated about them, maybe the law could be relaxed. Binge drinking chav culture isn’t the best place to introduce it.

    Therefore it follows, logically, that to prevent people being completely stupid with damaging, violent depictions of sexual relationships, it would be wise to not have them in the first place, and possibly prevent a few rapes and social/sexual misunderstandings when people that aren’t educated learn from ‘normal’ porn. If people were properly educated, then perhaps introducing this sort of thing wouldn’t be such a problem.

    It’s more the fact that, inevitably, someone will have that horrible upbringing, learn from ‘harmful’ sources that reinforce harmful behaviours. So why not prevent it in the first place.

     

    In the US (which I’m assuming you’re from, my apologies if not), guns aren’t illegal, so the attitude towards banning harmful things is completely different.

     

    Obviously the arguement is flawed as far as gang warfare isn’t being executed with Hentai.

    Also, the idea of rape fantasy is completely out of my ‘safe/comfort zone’ so I still find it incredibly difficult to see anything in the game’s favour, which is then going to bias my opinion.

  118. Andrew Eisen says:

    Okay, if Rapelay is the only form of sexual education a person receives, yes I imagine their views would be a bit skewed.  But that’s not the fault of the game but of some amazingly horrid upbringing.

    If this person also had no concept of right and wrong, couldn’t differentiate between fantasy and reality, and had no understanding of personal rights, yes, that would probably not be a pleasant person to be around.  And it still wouldn’t be the fault of some obscure Japanese hentai game.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  119. Littlemog says:

    Ignoring the personal "the depiction of rape is going to put me off for several months", the game is damaging in the hands of someone that isn’t 100% when it comes to good sexual manner.

     

    This is obviously going to differ from place to place but where there is poor sexual education, people start building their ‘rules’ from heresay. Things like "Well, when she says no, she actually means yes, she’s just playing hard to get" and "She deserved it", "It’s your right to obtain sex from this ‘object’" are damaging socially, and this game would reinforce some of those (with the revenge ideals, mainly. And the fact that said revenge stems from the fact the protagonist got arrested for attempting to grope her, which I assume she would have reported)

     

    If you know 100% that it’s wrong to rape in all circumstances (and not knowing anyone here, I wouldn’t doubt anyone is) then you’re good to go. I personally can’t comprehend why it would be enjoyable and I don’t think I ever will.

  120. PrOtOcoN says:

    "As harry10 has clearly been chased off by people like you who actually refuse to read his entries"
    People like you, since you seemed to have missed my point entirely.

    All your comments (the ones posted atleast since you seemed to have trailed off there) do nothing but confirm what I and others have said. Lets go through them, shall we?

    ‘The self, born vulnerable, forms identity through identifying with “images” (Lacan)
    Those of you forming your identity via a game called Rapelay already have problems. I see no reason any "unformed" individual would really identify with the images therein without having been exposed to something much worse earlier in life.

    Video games’ shape real-world identities based upon the overlap (not the differences) in the virtual self and the real-world self (Griffin 2007)
    Exactly. The OVERLAP, NOT THE DIFFERENCES. Very little overlap between the majority of men and the main character of Rapelay.

    "Porn director Jules Jordan says…[SNIP]"
    Yes? And? Fans of extreme porn want extreme porn. Why is this news? Jules Jordan is running out of ideas for what he should put in his porn, or fans just want the extreme bits. This has nothing to do with Rapelay, identifying men as rapists, the portrayal of women in porn etc etc.

    Last quote doesn’t cite a source, but a study that shows that kind of development is indeed worrying. However, a uncited source is unreliable.

    "Harry10 at least never reverted to calling any of you all lame little names…Read it and weep dickhead"
    Hypocrit troll is hypocritical, eh?

    When your views are challenged, one should aim at lending them more support. I believe Harry10 has failed to support his views in the public…well, not forum but certainly the public comment section of GP!
    Another thing…people like me? You mean those who realize that once we ban something due to personal preference we open up a can of worms that’ll devour everything we truly care about? Yes…yes I am one of those people.

    If no one gets hurt in meatspace I wouldn’t mind if a pedophilic, animal slaughtering, human rights abusing, necrophilic rape simulator with console attachments came out. You know why? Because it is, after all, just…a….game.
    What scares me is that people like YOU, Omar, seem to not understand the difference.

  121. omar says:

    As harry10 has clearly been chased off by people like you who actually refuse to read his entries, he was never asking to have the game banned, and who delight in bullying others who have a ‘different’ outlook than you, here is some information from outside of the game bubble. Yeah that’s right, from those who actually are really involved and doing research and shit. I though this site was for political commentry as well? Not just personal rants? Harry10 at least never reverted to calling any of you all lame little names… Speaks volumes really. Read it and weep dickhead:

    ‘The self, born vulnerable, forms identity through identifying with “images” (Lacan)

     

    Video games’ shape real-world identities based upon the overlap (not the differences) in the virtual self and the real-world self (Griffin 2007)

     

    Porn director Jules Jordan says: "One of the things about today’s porn and the extreme market, so many fans want to see so much more extreme stuff that I’m always trying to figure out ways to do something differently. But it seems everybody wants to see a girl doing double penetration now or a gang-bang. A lot of fans are becoming a lot more demanding about wanting to see the more extreme stuff. It’s definitely brought porn somewhere, but I don’t know where it’s headed from there." (2007)

    Harvard Studies found that: Consumers of pornography are likely to believe that women want violent sex, want multiple partners at the same time, and want to be dominated and degraded. This unfortunately is how more and more men view "sex" and the role of women in their lives. When women challenge or won’t conform to the role that pornography presents them, they are seen as cold or as "bitches." (200

  122. PrOtOcoN says:

    I’m starting to think that you might be a troll, given how you ignore everyones comments and restate yours…but I’ll feed you none the same.

    Implying that those of us that play violent video games have somesort of lessened capacity for empathy is offensive to me. It’s different, learn to live with difference. I can apply your mindset to exactly the type of person you claim to despise in your posts.

    "Why should I respect women, they’re so different and weaker than me. Nothing they do is worth anything, men rule the world and no other view is allowed"

    See? It’s easy once you allow only one view and disregard everything else.
    You hated GTA, eh? From a gamers perspective I’d ask "which one, there’s atleast half a dozen by now" but moving on and running with it. Good, now you know you don’t like sandbox games with a violent focus. Suck it up and move on. But to try to somehow claim that your dislike of it creates a slippery slope scenario where we end up fisting grandmothers is so absurd that trying to recreate such a connection is hard.

    If you can’t handle being replied to on this comment section of Gamepolitics (this isn’t a forum) then I guess you’ve never really had your views tested. Your arguements have been refuted, answered and rebutted time and time again yet you never amend them, change your angle or anything. It’s always "It’s bad because I say it is and it should be banned because I don’t want this kind of stuff."

    It’s an unhealthy view to have…yes…unhealthier than, say, liking Rapelay and being open to other opinions. Amazing, right? That one can like something like that and not be a serial murdering granny fister.

    Meh…the more I write the more I’m convinced you’re just a troll…ah well.
    I’m off to commit some crimes due to my gender and/or race! (Amirite Harry10?)
    Toodles.

  123. Andrew Eisen says:

    I don’t think the amount of "creepy nasty shit" has increased, only that modern technology has made it easier to find.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  124. Father Time says:

    For every rapeplay there are games that do not rely on shock value or exploring taboos. This game isn’t mainstream by any definition. There will always be games/movies/whatever that push the envelope for whatever reason and then there’s good games that don’t need to rely on that to be controversial.

    Porn is a big business and yet you don’t see a ton of mainstream games trying to be porn, that may be due to the Ao kiss of death, but still. You don’t see Nintendo involved in this stuff (or even making M games).

    There’s a market for this stuff so it exists, although there’s still a market for clean games.

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  125. harry10 says:

    You know what, I think this might come down to sensibilities. Maybe some of us pick up on these type of violent depictions and are disturbed and upset and want to speak out about it. What I see as different today, especially with the advent of the internet, is some creepy men not only pushing out but also constructing more and more sexually violent material. In porn, in music and in games. I find I’ve got to screen out stuff now and that I can’t talk openly about the sadness I feel for, what I see as, a growing trend to just shock and wollow in shit. Just wanting to watch ourselves hurting women and girls.

    I get sick of it, GTA really revolted me. Creepy nasty shit. To the bone. I played a few times and I thought what a load of unoriginal shit. Same old same old. I guess the much earlier comment was right, what do we expect of Japanese games like this now. Close ups of tears from a little girl. How thoroughly entertaining. What next eh lads? Rape the baby? Fist ya granny? I’m glad I was born in a time when not as much of this stupid mindless hateful rubbish was spat out. I guess I’m alone on this forum. I’ll go to another forum and chat to blokes about it there. I guess this world is too harsh for old timers like me… I like women and girls too much as mates maybe? Who knows.

  126. Andrew Eisen says:

    The children in the game aren’t real.  They’re cartoons.  Light moving in sequence on your computer monitor.  And the voice actress is more than likely of legal working age.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  127. Father Time says:

    But it’s an easy counter.

    Since this game is porn it’s all ready illegal to sell it to children.

    It’s just that simple.

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  128. Aprincen says:

    I’m pretty sure in this case, some politician is going to draw this line too. I’m not just talking about Vaz, this game is every anti-game crusader’s wet dream.

  129. Andrew Eisen says:

    Yes, it’s still fine.  If it’s not for you, that’s fine too.

    Draw all the lines you want but you can only draw it for yourself and your children, not anyone else.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  130. Wolvenmoon says:

    Yeesh, let it go.

    It’s japanese interactive pornography. Amazon.com can do whatever the hell they want for the most part, they are publically traded.

    Though I haven’t read the previous comments here, I am curious to see how people justify GTA’s sexual content and cry out against this content.

  131. TBoneTony says:

    I think that there are allot of real world examples that I have heard on the news about men raping women, I have also heard allot of examples of female teachers seducing their younger male students.

    There are far more bigger problems in society but it is a shame when people like the Japanese Hentai game markers are really trying to speak about the issue of rape, but society attacks them all because they don’t like what the Japanese Hentai game markers are really trying to talk about a serious message that needs to be understood in order to be heard.

    Sadly mainstreem media realy on sensationalism and newsworthy stories in order to spread the message, and what they spread is not really the truth but it is more about what makes the news more sellable.

    A scandle like this sells way more papers than an honest message trying to talk about the serious issues of rape and violence in the world.

     

  132. Andrew Eisen says:

    A fear of all men is irrational because most men are perfectly desent human beings who don’t go around raping people.  Any woman who grows up with such a fear likely suffered something traumatic or was raised to believe that men can’t be trusted and to live in fear (and if that’s the case, shame on the parents).

     

    Andrew Eisen

  133. catboy_j says:

    I’d say it’s really irrationaly considering that I’ve been raped and have no issue with this game. Additionally I’ve been bullied and tormented all my life by both males and females. Plus around where I come from there’s the prevailing attitude of don’t every hit a woman no matter what. Or anyone who hits a woman is gonna get their ass kicked.

  134. harry10 says:

    It doesn’t work like that, we are not individuals seperate from culture, we interact with it. Girls are told, often by fathers and brothers, not to trust men, regardless of their personal experiences. They are told this over and over and over again so as by the time they start to become interested in sex they are told the if THEY are not careful they will be raped. It doesn’t matter how obscure this example of sexual violence representation is, combined with the bombardment of stuff that we see and hear, you would have be living on a very distanct planet not to notice that men here are depicted as mean nasty violent bully’s that take real pleasure in making women and little girls feel pain. I’m sick of all these idiots that send women and kids this same old message. Lock up you daughter and lock up your wife coz I’m the big rapist man you better quack in fear… Game or no game it’s not new. If I was a female kid I would be bloody frightened of men, wouldnt you??? Or are you saying women and girls fear of men is irrational?

  135. Andrew Eisen says:

    "I think that we should respect that some people do feel this type of pain, even if we ourselves do not."

    Why don’t these people just refrain from seeking out and playing entertainment material that would cause them pain?  Or are you suggesting that knowledge of the mere existence of this game is enough to cause pain?

    "I taotally disagree with the earlier comment that depictions of rape are rare. Movies and music are full of sexual violence, Sin City etc."

    I honestly can’t think of any rape in the Sin City film (doesn’t mean it’s not there but nothing comes to mind).  Granted, Yellow Bastard is a child molester/rapist but I don’t recall a scene depicting that.

    Of course, that’s beside the point.  I can name several films  with rape (can’t think of any songs but popular music doesn’t interest me) but it’s still such a small number compared to the number of works out there that I think "rare" is a very appropriate description.

    And finally, what point are you making with your last paragraph?  I don’t mean that as an insult, I’m just truly not picking up on it.  Yes, kids today have an easier time accessing porn then we did when we were kids.  So what?

     

    Andrew Eisen

  136. harry10 says:

    I hear a few debates going on here, 1) freedom of speach needs be upheld-a debate I agree with. I am not suggesting this game should be banned. 2) characters in games do not depict real individual people and therefore any act a game character is programmed to possibly do is not depicting a ‘real’ act with flesh and blood people and therefore cannot do any harm-I think there is some conflating physical harm-(embodied flesh harm and violence) with psychological mental and emotional harm (upset, trauma etc). and 3) A perspective that the way ‘we’ as a culture depict ourselves and others should be considered to be free of the type of responsibilities that individuals are made to adhere to if they say make a racist drawing of a fellow work mate on the toilet wall, because we are not causing ‘real’ individuals physical or emotional harm.

    However, I feel that representations of this kind do inflict real pain, trauma and hurt and I think that we should respect that some people do feel this type of pain, even if we ourselves do not. It is not enough to say ‘I’ don’t feel it and therefore it is not ‘real’ or it is their own making or paronoid dillusion. I think if we ignore other peoples discomfort then we don’t deserve their respect either, and so it goes round and round. I find this type of material causes me to feel real shame and anger and I see it all over the globe now, especially on the net and in games. I taotally disagree with the earlier comment that depictions of rape are rare. Movies and music are full of sexual violence, Sin City etc.

    I think the argument that Porn is not available to kids is a complete cop out. I mean come on! It’s so easy to get porn on the net that you be hard pressed to find an 8 year old boy (or probably girl) who hasn’t seen porn nowadays. Can we not even have this conversation without freaking out that the games will be banned? Can’t we leave that aside and say, hang on guys where the hell is going? What the hell is going on in if we can’t even discuss that really hard core sexual violence against women and girls has become far more widely available. I don’t know about you but I was born in the late 70’s and it wasn’t as available then.

  137. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    No, I didn’t.

    I did know that he has been caricatured as an expert in abortions, but a full M.D.? Not at all.

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  138. Darmoth says:

    And now we know how the pregnancies were terminated… >_>

    Bet you didn’t know Captain Falcon had a medical degree!

  139. Shadow D. Darkman says:

    What, you were seriously going to Falcon Kick someone?

    ——————————————————————————

    "Game on, brothers and sisters." -Leet Gamer Jargon

  140. Andrew Eisen says:

    I appreciate your honesty and I truly respect your feelings and opinion.

    Just please don’t kick anyone in the balls…

     

    Andrew Eisen

  141. Paulrus says:

    Do you really believe that the guys who wrote a program that allows you to organize a bunch of illustration in an order that illustrates rape deserve to be physically kicked in the balls?

    You want my god-honest opinion? YES.

    I’ll concede that it’s a cultural difference and i’m speaking from a Western perspective. I’ll concede that it’s ‘just a game’. But that doesn’t undermine my disgust that this trash exists.

    I’m an attention whore. So visit my DevaintArt and feed my ego. Feed the whore. http://keaton2008.deviantart.com/

  142. Andrew Eisen says:

    "For me, nutshots are on a completely different plane from rape."

    Sure but we’re not talking about real rape here, we’re talking about a graphical representation of it.  No one is actually being raped.  No one is actually being hurt.

    Kicking someone in the nuts would truly damage someone.  Do you really believe that the guys who wrote a program that allows you to organize a bunch of illustrations in an order that illustrates rape deserve to be physically kicked in the balls?

     

    Andrew Eisen

  143. Paulrus says:

    What do you want from me? I despise rape; especially in the graphic way that this game depicts it in. For me, nutshots are on a completely different plane from rape.

    I’m an attention whore. So visit my DevaintArt and feed my ego. Feed the whore. http://keaton2008.deviantart.com/

  144. Father Time says:

    "And what messages is this shit sending to young boys?"

    It’s PORN. It’s not supposed to BE in the hands of young boys just like grand theft auto is not supposed to be in the hands of young boys (although porn is supposed to be even worse).

    I have no idea how Japan treats giving porn to minors culturally or legally, I don’t know if they have a culture of women fearing men over there (as you claim there’s one over here) and I don’t know how popular this kind of stuff is over there.

    Although given the fact that as far as the US is concerned this type of game is really obscure and undergroundish I doubt this is contributing to a ‘culture of fear’.

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  145. G-Meister says:

    "I for one would looooove to live in a world where I could actually walk down a street at night and not see some woman walking ahead quicker because she is affraid I’m going to hurt her."

    Maybe you shouldn’t be following women around at night?

    But seriously, that has more to do with fear of the unknown. I’m a guy, and I get freaked out by people I don’t know if I’m walking around at night, alone. It’s not that I think random strangers are going to do horrible things to me, it’s that I don’t know if random strangers are going to do horrible things to me. So, better safe than sorry.

  146. harry10 says:

    What some of you are missing is that this does make a HUUUGE impact. I for one am impacted by the fact that so many women are really frightened of men. It is not a matter of people rationally saying to themselves that all this sexually violent material currently saturating the market, mostly directed against women and girls, is not ‘real’; it is more a matter of it generating a culture of ‘real’ fear, anger and upset people. Is it any wonder a lot of women are really suspicious of men? They are the ones that have way up the situation and think to themselves ‘okay I will go up for a coffee’, or ‘I will accept that drink and stick around to see where this might go’ or ‘I will have sex with this guy and hope he doesn’t get violent’ etc etc. I mean with all the trully nasty stuff men pump out in our society it is a wonder any women trust us enough to be alone at all! And what messages is this shit sending to young boys? We are constructing a culture where masculinity is depicted as a really monstrous thing and we are just letting these few idiots speak for us. We need to let the broader population of women and boys know that we are also really repulsed by this and not only when it’s being pulled from the counter. I for one would looooove to live in a world where I could actually walk down a street at night and not see some woman walking ahead quicker because she is affraid I’m going to hurt her. So, to get to the point, this shit does make a big impact, maybe not on you directly but it creates a climate of fear and it destroys sex and open and fun sexual relationships for a whole lot a people and that SUX!!! 

  147. Andrew Eisen says:

    Do you really think women who are frightened of men are frightened because of incredibly obscure games such as this or because of real instances of violence against women?  Or perhaps even real personal experience?

     

    Andrew Eisen

  148. Father Time says:

    When discussing whether or not this particular game should be banned one should keep in mind one thing.

    If it weren’t for Vaz making a fuss over it most of us would probably have never heard of it.

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  149. Father Time says:

    Why did you use the Bible as your example? Do you think it’s disgsuting or assume that we think it’s disgusting? It’s also a bad analogy because the bible is protected under free press/speech and freedom of religion (if you’re not allowed to own a religious text then you can easily argue that your freedom of religion is being violated).

    I believe that not even Mein Kempf should be banned (even if it wasn’t written by a very important historical figure)

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  150. zel says:

    Your logic fails here. The point is it’s hippocritical to advocate free speech and then turn around and say oops, this needs a ban cause i don’t like it. We’re not saying you have to support the sale of it, merely oppose the banning of it. The point we make is that it’s never the "right thing" to want to ban someones thoughts. Thought police = bad. Kinda like the movie Equilibrium, a good movie btw.

    Your analogy actually works, see you don’t have to support the Bible, or what is inside of it, or what it preaches, just oppose banning the sale of it.

    Of course if you’re against free speech, then I can understand your arguement.

    ————————————

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  151. Soga says:

    Or I can do what is right and object to games that cater to some very sick, sick individuals. I can oppose some games and still support video gaming in general. If they pull the stuff I like, I’d just go to another store.

    Hey, do you support books? If so, you should support the Bible. If you don’t support all books, including the Bible, they might just start banning the stuff you like.

  152. Paulrus says:

    True words. True, sad words. Frank Zappa said something similar, if not relevant, when testifying during the PMRC hearings.

    It is my understanding that, in law, First Amendment issues are decided with a preference for the least restrictive alternative. In this context, the PMRC’s demands are the equivalent of treating dandruff by decapitation …

    It makes me sad.

    I’m an attention whore. So visit my DevaintArt and feed my ego. Feed the whore. http://keaton2008.deviantart.com/

  153. Father Time says:

    "These games are not innocent. You should ask yourselves why you want to play them."

    Sadism

    If you are a little sadistic it might be fun to watch people suffer while at the same time remembering in the back of your head no one is actually being hurt in the process.

    Not that I’m sadistic or anything that would just be my guess.

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  154. Andrew Eisen says:

    "These games are not innocent. You should ask yourselves why you want to play them."

    Yes, they are.  They’re just games.  They can’t hurt anyone.  Why would someone want to play them?

    -Fun.

    -To experience something new.

    -Because it’s taboo.

    There are lot’s of perfectly acceptable reasons.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  155. mel says:

    Just wanted to say thanks to the guys who’ve spoken out about this. It is frightening to think that there are people out there who think it’s fun to act out child rape scenarios.

    As for women’s fear of violence … I have three brothers and a lot of male friends. Of course I’m not frightened of all men. Am I frightened of being dragged off the street and raped by a stranger when I’m walking home at night – yes I am.

    I was trying to rent a room in my flat last year and the constant complaint I had from women coming to see it was that the street was too dark and lonely.

    Have I given in to men in the past because I’ve been frightened about what they might do if I don’t ?- yes I have. Have I ever had the impression in the past that a man has got a kick out of me being scared ?- yes I have. I don’t go to the park any more because last time I went I was accosted by three drunks and there was no-one else around.

    I think you’ll find most women have had similar experiences, although not walking home alone in the dark is such a fact of life that it’s hardly worth mentioning.

    These games are not innocent. You should ask yourselves why you want to play them.

  156. catboy_j says:

    You know that most women are raped or killed by someone close to them? And a good deal of spouses are killed by their lover or married partner male or female.

    Also of course a game about sex is not innocent. But It only hurts people who want to let it hurt them. Much like an episode of South Park or Law and Order: SVU. Does what get’s said and goes on have a scary basis in truth or sometimes get directed in a heavy handed way? Yes? But does it physically harm someone? No. Does it emotionally hurt them? Only if they’re already in the state to be hurt.

  157. Father Time says:

    taste.

    Oh and probably because our culture has a much greater tolerance for violence in our pop culture. Here in the US we were founded on a bloody revolution which we celebrate every year, our national anthem mentions war, we’ve been in several wars (one civil) and well it’s just more prevalent.

    James Bond, and most action movies in general have lots of violence and murder (in fact my state elected an action hero star as our governor). Rape on the other hand is rare in pop culture, you’ll hardly ever see it in even horror movies.

    Ethically speaking having one set of pixels rape another set of pixels is just as neutral as killing the piels. It’s all a matter of taste what one minds in their entertainment.

    Now before this gets spun I’m just saying fictional violence desensitizes us to fictional violence and I betcha I can easily find people who like Saw for the violence but would still be disgusted over of a picture of a real bloody soldier.

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  158. gamadaya says:

    I wish I could slap you with a dueling glove. I like DBZ because I watched it when I was little, which I suspect is why most people like it. And to all those accusations, I have just this to say: the dubbing wasn’t that bad.

    ———————————

    Internet troll > internet paladin

  159. catboy_j says:

    If I may add to that taking out the story or consiquences or rather it’s interactive or not. Why is one fictional act of violence any worse then another? Speaking on the level of someone who hates real life violence. I mean if one act in game is absolutely awful and interolerable not just not for you, why not all acts?

  160. TK n Happy Ness says:

    By political pressure, they mean one asshole that has no business deciding what people can and can’t sell on the internet.

    When Jack Thompson runs his mouth, does anyone really care what he has to say anymore?

  161. zel says:

    Very odd indeed, the mind boggles at the inconsistency O.o

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    I am a signature virus, please copy and paste me into your signature to help me propagate.

  162. Darmoth says:

    That part of their law doesn’t make sense to me… they can depict graphic sexual violence… But they have to censor any genitals.

    I was told by woman who did a lot of traveling, their customs agents seem to forbid any, eh… adult toys, that resemble their flesh and blood counter parts.

  163. hayabusa75 says:

    And only you, it seems.  Yes, let’s inflict violence upon those who are different because you don’t think the same way.  Can we send you after JT?

    "There is no sin except stupidity." – Oscar Wilde

  164. zel says:

    Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in, I agree completely with you and AE on this. The content may not be to my taste but I’m not going to support a ban of it as the "right thing" to do. Abosolute hipocracy to want to support free speech in game content and then agree this game needs to be supressed.

    Lets be honest, rape in a game, mass murder in a game, which one is morally worse? who is going to try and convince me that being rewarded for killing large amounts of people is somehow OK but rape is OMG wrong ban! I mean I loved FO3, i personally didn’t tire of watching VATS in slo-mo vaporizing raiders with my plasma rifle or shooting heads off with the combat shotgun, especially those damn slavers, i dislike slavery so I killed all those bastards 😛  and i get to loot their corpses for caps and new gear. But man make a game with rape and that things needs to be banned!!!!

    In one game, people DIE, the other, rape, but they are all really just games, and no one actually got hurt. Somewhere a bit went from 1 to 0, thats it, end of story.

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  165. NovaBlack says:

    ”Lastly, I meant that games, as much as we like to think, are still not globally being accepted as art or a serious form of media.”

    The first thing i thought of when you brought up art was this… Isnt exploring the contraversial actually a GOOD thing for games to be accepted as art?

    I mean its not like traditional ‘art’ wether that be paintings or sculptures or whatever is completely 100% non contraversial. In face some of the most famous art of the past decade HAS been contraversial. Was it damien hurst (apologies if thats spelt wrong) who achieved fame through his ‘art’ of dead people and animals sliced and put in jars?

    Does everyone like his art? no… Is that acceptable? yes. Often people forget that art actually isnt always about making you feel good things.. its often just about making a person feel a wide range of things, some good (happiness) some bad (disgust, horror). The fact that it can evoke such a strong negative emotion is often sometimes the main purpose of the art… To evoke feeling.

     

     

  166. NovaBlack says:

    Totally agree Andrew.

     

    Its like for months gamers have been saying ‘ We have a right to play GTA and other violent games, if you dont like it then you have the choice not to buy it, but dont restrict it from us. We should have access to any content we like as long as its not harming anyone, its freedom of speech’

    Yet when something like this comes along its:

    ‘ yeah I dont like this game’s content,  so  I think that it should be banned from everyone’.

    Just completely 9001% hypocritical.

    Do i want to play this game? No. Do i find this game’s content disgusting? yes. Do i have a choice as to wether i purchase and play this game (or dont purchase and play this game)? yes. Is that the way things should be? yes.

    If i say that i want this game banned because I think its objectionable.. then what right do i have to EVER complain about somebody trying to ban violent video games? Either games should be protected, or they should not. Its wrong to pick and choose what should be protected based on subjective reasoning.

     

     

  167. Dragoon1376 says:

    But isn’t that issue with any form of entertainment?  As you mention, the producers of this rape game are going to be lumped in with the whole industry and will be pointed at by its critics as a "See! Look at the depravity these people are capable of!"

    Literature has the Maquis de Sade’s writings as well as other works that I would classify as downright frightening and tasteless.  I’m sure others can point to various movies and other forms of art that can fall into such a niche catagory. 

    But getting back to the topic at hand, I have to agree that it is a slippery slope.  It’s either all okay or not.  I know posters have quoted Neil Gaiman and Frank Zappa but the inspirational speech that came to my mind is Kyle in the South Park episodes "Cartoon Wars."  Granted he talks about comedy but I think the belief is analogus here.  You have to defend the infantismal bad with the much great good or it all comes crumbling down together.

  168. Paulrus says:

    In regards to the first comment, your retort just made me twitch. I don’t care if it’s "just a game", and it hurts me to be told that. For a second, I felt like one of those know-nothing watchdogs being talked down to by a smartass gamer whose smart-talking and insults are not helping.

    Second comment, this is true, sadly. These rights can bring in genius but it also brings in filth. Filth that makes developers on a whole look bad, whether or not if they make GTA or Lego Star Wars. And the people who play them criminalizes those who don’t even touch them. BUT you are right.

    Lastly, I meant that games, as much as we like to think, are still not globally being accepted as art or a serious form of media. As of today, it’s still a kids toy in the eyes of the older generations. We know better, but they hold the controls. This is the kind of game that the Jack Thompsons of the world want to be made. It provides a scare tactic and can be spun that we don’t give a shit about what’s put out and want to destroy youth and western civilation.

    I’m an attention whore. So visit my—- bah screw it. I’m already being pummled.

  169. Andrew Eisen says:

    I apologize about the first comment.  Yes, it comes off as curt and even condescending but I believe it truly is as simple as "It’s a game.  It’s not real."

     

    Andrew Eisen

  170. Kincyr says:

    Granted theres that little part of me that is curiouse about how the game works, but its being throttled by the part of me that wanted so badly to run over to that digital girl, and give her a big hug so she would stop crying.

    you’re not the only one

    岩「…Where do masochists go when they die?」

  171. Daria_C says:

    I saw the same picture at somthingawfull, plus honest gamers review where the quoted one of the girls in the game saying "Sniff… sniff… I w-w-want to die…". Mabye its that I’m female, and really maternal, but both the screenshot, and quote made me burst into tears. Granted theres that little part of me that is curiouse about how the game works, but its being throttled by the part of me that wanted so badly to run over to that digital girl, and give her a big hug so she would stop crying.

  172. Darmoth says:

    Yup. It’s fairly depraved. I’ll point out that somethingawful.com ((Wont give a direct link to it since it’s most probably not safe for work places.)) has a great ‘review’ of the game too. It’s maybe two years ago? But they sum it pretty well by describing the graphics of the game, particular the tears that stream down the youngest daughters face…

    I sincerely try not to judge, and I don’t blame people for playing this type of game… But I’d like to think there’s karmic slap in the face of one or two of the devs.

    Eh, the more you know, right?

  173. Aprincen says:

    This, according to the review on something awful, has a crying 10-year old child in it. Which you can rape. While she cries. Not fine. I’m against censorship but damn, I guess this is were I draw the line.

  174. Andrew Eisen says:

    Expressing your disgust with the game is fine.  Amazon deciding it doesn’t want to associate itself with the game is fine, albeit hypocritical seeing the plethora of other adult products it sells (movies, books, games, toys, etc).

    Making a video game with rape as a play mechanic is fine.  Playing that game is also fine.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  175. Soga says:

    They HAVE the right to get rid of whatever they want. THEIR stock, THEIR policy. If you don’t like it, go to another store. If they want to get rid of all offensive material, then that’s their business decision. Who are you to say that they can’t?

    Oh, and nice slippery slope fallacy there. Just nice.

  176. Paulrus says:

    Amazon.com can sell whatever they want: porn and gore alike. They didn’t even have this is stock, right? This was an auction someone had put up, and was immediatly scrutinized. I find this to be a victory of me because of my aforementioned disgust with shit like that. But there are too many variables involved to make this argument as high contrast as a Frank Miller novel. The problem this game had was that it was in no way over the top. It wasn’t laughable like, say, the character Handbanana from Aqua Teen Hunger Force, in lack of a better example. It wasn’t something that played second fiddle to a story or acted as a plot device. It tried to be as real as possible, outside of maybe the Japanese need for over-gelantious breasts.

    However, your second paragrapgh is correct, as much as I want to grit my teeth. My statement can now be used by people who are anal than me. People who think that even saying such a term should get you thrown in jail for life. People who want to bring down our beloved video games or try to reform them to the point of not even being able to throw sticks.

    Tell me if i’m missing something.

    I’m an attention whore. So visit my DevaintArt and feed my ego. Feed the whore. http://keaton2008.deviantart.com/

  177. sheppy says:

    I know I became interested in the game suddenly.  Of course I have a fascination with games that force the player to not exactly do the right thing.  Like, for example, Shadow of the Colossus, a game where you play a villian and it makes you feel sorry for what you’ve done.  Fable attempts this at times but the comedy really wipes away the bad part of being a mass murdering machine of sex and violence.  I’m curious if this game attempts to make you feel bad about what you’ve just done.  Of course it could all just be the glorification of the rape sexual fantasy like a section of the porn industry.  So as of right now, I’m curious…

    This game could actually represent a breakthrough in emotional gaming… doubtful but could.

    Wall of Text Simulation- Insert coin to continue.

  178. Sukasa says:

    I’m surprised JT hasn’t tried to take credit for the game being pulled off, course surprised he hasnt’t tried to get all hentai games from being imported into the US.  However, it was expected that Amazon would pull the game, though gotta wonder if the British MP had just called amazon instead of making a big deal about it, it would not have made the news and gotten the game attention in the first place.  It would be interesting to hear some response from the game company, in how this story has affected them, etc?  GP, have you or any other news agency tried to contact the company to get a response?

  179. Gift says:

    I’m not so sure, it’s their site so Amazon can be as arbitary as they like when protecting their corporate image (or just plain arbitary for the hell of it). I really don’t see how removal of any product is the same as admitting liability for everything. Indeed, I’m pretty sure they’ll have some tightly written legal disclaimers to cover that very issue.

    No doubt Amazon recieved plenty of complaints regarding offensive material prior to this incident, they may get a few more as a result of this story but in the long term I doubt it’s anything they can’t handle.

    Gift.

  180. Neeneko says:

    Dangerous game amazon is playing here.

    Amazon allows all sorts of adult material on thier site.  Unless they put together clear guidelines describing which adult material is ok and which is not, they have just openned up a whole mess of cans of worms for themselves since now they have a demonstratably arbitrary enforcement scheme.

    Which makes them responsible for ALL content on their site.  bad move amazon.. really bad.

  181. JC says:

    Well, by that example, it can just take someone with some political power to remove those videos and they don’t even need to be an animal lover to do so, Amazon probably shot their foot with this move since "offensive" content can be removed… note the term: offensive. What if some housemother finds porn on Amazon and demands it removed because she finds it offensive? Amazon may have to cave in and remove that too…

  182. KillerRamen says:

    It’s a smart business decision not to piss off your customers. Although, in Amazon’s case this is somewhat surprising because they continue to sell dog fighting videos and books on how to train dogs for the purpose of dog fighting after having this pointed out by animal rights groups. Based on that and other previous decisions, I would have thought that they would have just kept on doing what they were doing.

  183. JC says:

    No, raping isn’t fine. Andrew is saying that games which depict rape or have it as a gameplay mechanic is fine, as it should be. It isn’t like there’s an actual victim, despite how much the UK wants to eliminate games/movies which have no actual victim within it.

  184. spastkid says:

    That’s kind of a stretch there from wot AE’s saying…

    ————————————————————————

    Oooh! You mean there are people around with the mythical "Common Sense"?

  185. JC says:

    I agree, it is going to bite them in the ass later. Watch it be something related to Islam, or perhaps RE5 as well… *shudder*

    Well, at least I don’t order from Amazon, but the fact is they opened the floodgates and will probably get sued by someone and private resellers may pull their listings from Amazon.

  186. Neeneko says:

    it actually isn’t a good political idea either.  Once you play morality police once, it becomes more difficult to turn away demands (or legal threats) later.

    This move puts all sorts of protected but offensive material on amazon in danger, and opens up amazon to all sorts of attacks with people wanting their own pet dislike removed.

  187. Adrian Lopez says:

    How is removing the game "the right thing"? Perhaps it’s the politically saavvy thing to do, from a public relations perspective, but it’s far from being an absolute "right thing".

    Inoffensive speech hardly ever needs protecting. We should strive to protect the most offensive forms of speech, provided they don’t cause harm or are otherwise produced by causing harm to others.

  188. Paulrus says:

    Good. I like my hentai without rape anyway.

    I’m sorry, but I don’t get why someone would make such a thing. Guess there’s a market for everything.

    But this comment is more personal. I’m reading these comments and people are noting the whole "Amazon sells porn" thing, and how this would make them look hypocritical. Also, since they sell hentai DVD that have sequences of rape an’ shit of the sort, I think it’s the whole "game" aspect that makes it a bad thing… and that is fine with me, because this is where I draw the line.

    It’s one to thing to watch rape sequences, it’s another to orchestrate them. You just don’t make a rape simulator! This isn’t the ‘art’, ‘political’, ‘gritty’, or other kind of game that we should be defending. Maybe i’m missing the point here but i’m GLAD this game was taken off- whether or not if it was to save face. If anything, this is the kind of game you’ll petition to discontinue, by a remaining copy, and then sell it to a museum of video games as an example of bad taste.

    I’m an attention whore. So visit my DevaintArt and feed my ego. Feed the whore. http://keaton2008.deviantart.com/

  189. JustChris says:

    What’d the difference between the rape scenes that are already drawn in an animation and the rape scenes that are called dynamically, by an in-game function?

    Rape scenes in H-movies can also be done on the spot- it’s called "press rewind, pause, play."

    GameSnooper

  190. Andrew Eisen says:

    "It’s one to thing to watch rape sequences, it’s another to orchestrate them."

    It’s a game.  It’s not real.

    "You just don’t make a rape simulator! This isn’t the ‘art’, ‘political’, ‘gritty’, or other kind of game that we should be defending."

    This is exactly what we should be defending.  Developers have a right to make such games.  Gamers have a right to play such games.  Gamers also have the right to not play such games.

    You may not like it.  You may find it deplorable and disgusting but you should still acknowledge and champion the rights of others to produce and consume this brand of entertainment.

    "I think it’s the whole "game" aspect that makes it a bad thing… and that is fine with me, because this is where I draw the line."

    What exactly do you mean by a "bad" thing?  Also, it’s fine if rape in games is where you personally draw the line as long as you don’t try to draw that line for anyone else (except for your kids of course).

     

    Andrew Eisen

  191. Joran says:

    Well, Neil Gaiman put it best:  http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2008/12/why-…cky-speech.html

    "The Law is a blunt instrument. It’s not a scalpel. It’s a club. If there is something you consider indefensible, and there is something you consider defensible, and the same laws can take them both out, you are going to find yourself defending the indefensible."

    To support video games, you need to support all games, otherwise, they can start banning the stuff you like.

    Edit:  And got ninjaed by the person above me, bravo.

  192. Neeneko says:

    Regardless of what you like or dislike personally, I can’t imagine you think the idea of amazon getting into the morality buisness being a good thing.  Rape simulators today.. murder simulators tommorow.  How much outrage does it take before they pull something? Is it abosolute amount of press? Is it how much revenue they get from the seller?  Are popular things protected but low volume stuff safe to remove?  Where are the lines?

    As soon as you start spouting ‘my stuff is ok, but this stuff isn’t’, you have given power to those who wish to get rid of ALL offensive (to them) material.  You have admitted that they are right and it’s only the details that matter….. and you have no objective way to defend one type of objectionable speech but not another.

  193. Rodrigo Ybáñez García says:

    In the end, all we can do is hope that one day we’ll see the developers on the street and just kick them in the nuts.

    Not happening. The game was intended to be used in Japan only and not downladed in other countries via Torrent. In Japan they have many tolerance with this kind of games-anime-manga-porn movies. So they are basically covered with this kind of BS.

    In Japan, sadism as part of their sex culture is very normal. They represent it in many forms and is protected by the laws as freedom of speech if they play by the rules (they still have to mosaic genitals or not use real minors on their porn movies).

     

     

     

    The cynical side of videogames (spanish only): http://thelostlevel.blogspot.com/ My DeviantArt Page (aka DeviantCensorship): http://www.darkknightstrikes.deviantart.com/

  194. Adrian Lopez says:

    "In the end, all we can do is hope that one day we’ll see the developers on the street and just kick them in the nuts."

    I find it interesting that your moral code condemns ficticious violence (rape in a video game) yet condones real-life violence.

  195. Paulrus says:

    In the end, all we can do is hope that one day we’ll see the developers on the street and just kick them in the nuts. The gamer feels better and we don’t go to war with the censors.

    By the way, I found the Wiki article. This game has already been in trouble. Also, the game is called "RapeLay". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RapeLay

    I’m an attention whore. So visit my DevaintArt and feed my ego. Feed the whore. http://keaton2008.deviantart.com/

  196. Paulrus says:

    I found a user review for this game. I’m disgusted. The only reason i’m not going into detail is because i’m afraid to. Some users pointed out ‘people’ may be reading. I won’t even give these designers the courtesy of a "fuck you". They didn’t even make shit like this up until this game. They know better than that i’m sure.

    As for the forced abortions, the review was a little mum on it. However, it did say you can impregnant them but it didn’t say how you ‘abort’ the babies. I’m not even going to imagine it.

    EDIT: Oh wait, someone did. Yay for trains.

    I’m an attention whore. So visit my DevaintArt and feed my ego. Feed the whore. http://keaton2008.deviantart.com/

  197. Darmoth says:

    The bit about ‘forced abortions’ is if the player chooses to have vaginal intercourse with one of the three women during, my best translation from the game, "danger time" which is represented by the woman’s icon having either their eyes closed, or blushing. I don’t remember which.

    If the player decided to do that, there is a chance the woman will become pregnant. Shortly before the woman would start ‘showing’ the game features some type of pop-up menu which the player can choose to have her carry on with the pregnacy, or have them abort. However if the player forces them to have the child and he has not ‘broken’ the will of all three women, the game ends with him getting shoved infront of an oncoming train.

    However if all the women are ‘broken’, which appears to be the only ‘gameplay objective’, and the player decides to allow them to keep the child it serves only as means for the player to satisfy a fetish for pregnant women…

    Other than a ‘win’, by breaking the will of all three, the only other game ending I think it mentioned was the eldest daughter pulling a knife on the player character and removing a particular male organ.

    I came across a wiki on this game a year or so ago.

  198. Neeneko says:

    Yeah.. I’ve been noticing over the last few years that concervative blogs and papers have "T"ruth, and thus they don’t need to bother with truth.

  199. GrimCW says:

    i seen the game actually and its pretty sickening tbh. moreover than most h-anime these days.

    but forced abortions? can’t say i’ve ever heard of that feature.

    the basic premise is though that your some guy who’s out to get revenge on a girl who called him out and put him to shame on a train, so you stalk and rape she and her family, then turn them to sex slaves. after the intitial "rape" its pretty much sex slaving where they willingly submit. (still considered rape of course, but its consented rape at that point on.)

    theres no forced abortion though unless i missed something.

    thats just sickening, and an even more sickening accusation to make by anyone.

     

    but then again, Mass Effect has customizable sodomy, doesn’t it?

  200. Naota10 says:

    Is it just me or have several of the comments been deleted?

    whoops, didn’t notice that this is a different article on it.

  201. catboy_j says:

    You make several mistakes here.

    1. You assume only fathers would understand the pain of a crying child.

    2. You disreguard the deep sexual and phsychological undertones here. Not everyone playing these games imagines themself in the seat of the abuser and some people actually do get into this stuff as a coping mechanism. I like to feel pain real or fictional because it makes me understand the world better in a sense.

    3. You assume that this is anything like raping a real child. I know 100% from having it happen to me that it’s not. There is no such thing as a realistic rape game. Again you mis understand the complexities here. Rape is about having power over a real living thing and making it less then you. Whiel real rapists may enjoy this game, they will not get near the same buzz, they will not achieve what they want, and they will not start raping because of it.

  202. Andrew Eisen says:


    Speaking as a mod, please use the reply button.

    Speaking as just me, you don’t have to get how Rapelay can be fun.  I don’t understand how anyone can tolerate Dragon Ball Z.  Bad animation, bad story, bad fight choreography, unappealing character design, lousy dub, repetitive and unimaginative story, etc.  The show, to me, has absolutely no redeeming characteristics whatsoever.  But that’s okay.  Some people like it and that’s fine.  I just don’t watch it and it doesn’t bother me.

    Same thing with Rapelay.  It’s obviously not for you and you will probably never understand why anyone would want to play it much as I’ll never understand why anyone would willingly watch DBZ.

    On another point, Rapelay cannot let you experience raping a child any more than GTA can let you experience screwing a hooker.  Why?  Because you’re not actually doing it.

     

    Andrew Eisen

  203. mel says:

    But how can it be fun to pretend to rape a crying child? I don’t get it.

    And the way you describe it, it’s not just a game, it’s an "experience".

    Why would you want to experience what it’s like to rape a child?

    This is so wrong… are any of you guys fathers?

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