GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

February 14, 2009 -

As GamePolitics reported this week, online retailer Amazon.com has blocked sales of RapeLay, a Japanese hentai game being offered on Amazon by an affiliated re-seller.

While many were upset by news of the game, some felt that Amazon's decision amounted to censorship.

What do you think?

Register your opinion in the GP poll at left.

 


Comments

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

Sure.  They can do whatever the fuck they want (unless they had a contract with Illusion Software barring them from discontinuing sale).  It's their website.  Who buys porn anyway?

No, Luke, I AM the Walrus

No, Luke, I AM the Walrus

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

On one hand, I voted "yes". Like other people said before me, it's Amazon's website and they do what they want. And I personally believe they did the right thing.

On the other hand, I think there are people who had to do "the right thing", but unfortunately didn't : the video game industry. They should have declared publicly that :

1/ They don't (and never have) created, nor published, games like that.

2/ Such games are not to be found anywhere in game retail stores, at least in most countries over the World except Japan.

3/ People at Illusion Software, who produce most of these games, aren't members of the "game industry" as we know it (ESA, IGDA, IEMA, EPLSA, etc...), and, as it was noticed by other readers, even themselves never meant to sell their games outside Japan.

4/ In short, "the game industry" has nothing to do with it. And there's no rape in the video games they're responsible for. Period.

The problem is that, right now, ESA is too busy bitching about piracy, as if it was their only cause of concern.

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

Is anyone else disturbed that there are books and movies out there that cover pretty much the exact same subject material that Amazon cheerfully sells? But OMG, since it's a video game, that's different!

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

If my reading of Wiki is correct this contains the rape of a 10yr girl. There is really that in a movie on Amazon?

If so post an email to Amazon and see if they remove it.

--
A house is not a home unless it contains food and fire for the mind as well as the body. Benjamin Franklin

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

just wonderful....Neowin: the retards of the internet, finally caught on to this

Just a matter of time until Fox news picks up on it.

Go ahead...keep putting fuel on the fire....kill my buzz.  I'm actually quite pissed off how GamePolitics is handling this....I was expecting them to defend the choice of the consumer instead of getting butthurt over cultural values

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

Again, I'll try to keep this short.

1)No one cares about your stance on rape vs. murder.

2)Amazon.com's actions are on trial here, not the developers of the game.

That being said, let's get back to talking about the validity of Amazon's actions, and away from the witch-hunts.

 

"HEY! LISTEN!"

"HEY! LISTEN!"

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

1)No one cares about your stance on rape vs. murder.

People are comparing the two because if you ban a game in which the object is to rape someone, then surely you must ban a game that has you murder someone. The worry is that things will snowball, and suddenly every game that depicts non-consentual violence (I don't know how to phrase that better - picking a fight on someone, as opposed to WWE or whathaveyou) is banned.

 

The very reason the game has been banned (on amazon) is because it has objectional content that is either offensive or harmful. Which means you must argue the content of the game.

Either the game has content that is fine to be sold, or it hasn't. If it hasn't, then to justify that opinion we must look at the games content and why it was made, and for what purpose. Often that will drag the developers in, because the gut reaction of many people would be "what were they thinking?!"

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

I wholeheartedly agree.  But let's keep the discussion relative to the topic.  I'm tired of personal attacks that have more to do with a person's beliefs than the subject at hand.

 

"HEY! LISTEN!"

"HEY! LISTEN!"

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

It seems in order to decide whether the game should or should not have been banned we need to work out the following things:

1 - Is rape the same as murder (In this case, I think it's more appropriate to compare the game with Manhunt because murder is the focus, rather than just something you do on the way). Yes, both are illegal, non-concentual, and damaging (obviously). Many of us are brought up that rape is worse (or at least, more immeadiate), hence the knee-jerk reaction.

2 - Is the reward in these games the same? Do you get the same reward from killing someone in Manhunt or Postal that you get from RapeLay. The added factor of, by being a Hentai game, it might be the intention to jack-off to the game. I'd consider that to be more influencial than merely acting and watching either game. However, it would be theoretically possible to jack off to murder in Manhunt, albeit rarer, which would then have the same effect.

 

3 - Targetting. In a film anyone can get shot, but should it be 'inciting racial hatred' by, say, specifically shooting arabic people and it's prevented in a positive light, it's banned (or the film company gets a severe talking to and they self regulate it to be milder)

I'm not sure whether there's a specific target in Manhunt - I haven't played it.

In RapeLay, you're specifically targetting a demographic - women. That might be rather obvious by the game name (I'm sure there aren't as many games about raping men, or women assaulting women)...Then again that's not to say that raping everything in sight is better.

 

It's really quite difficult to say. I suppose it's a bit of a kick in the teeth that, after all the campaigning so raping your wife was illegal, a law passed only a few decades ago in the UK (since you were married to her, she couldn't possibly not want sex with you, so it couldn't be called rape.) people still want to make and play a game that simulates rape and, in general, puts women down.

It's closer to home than plain old murder.

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

Well, technically the game wasn't banned, Amazon just decided not to sell it (Amazon JP is still selling it).

1.  In my opinion, murder is worse then rape because as horrible as rape is, at least you're still alive.  Of course, I've never been raped or murdered so...

2.  Depends on why you're playing the game.  Some people play for challenge, some to experience new things, some to safely and legally experience something taboo and illegal, some out of sheer curiosity, etc.

3.  First of all, you can make a movie targeting a particular gender, ethnicity, or whatever.  It's protected speech and cannot be banned (at least not by the gov't.  Stores may choose not to carry it.)  Second, rape almost by its very definition targets women.  That said, this game targets three women.  Three fictional women.

"I suppose it's a bit of a kick in the teeth that... people still want to make and play a game that simulates rape and, in general, puts women down."

If there's a market for it, it will get made.

"It's closer to home than plain old murder."

If you know someone who's been raped but no one who's been murdered, I suppose it would.  I personally know both.  You know what the worst is for me?  Loved ones who die from medical ailments such as a brain tumor because unlike murder, there's no one to blame.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

2.  Depends on why you're playing the game.  Some people play for challenge, some to experience new things, some to safely and legally experience something taboo and illegal, some out of sheer curiosity, etc.

I see your point there, but that's not quite how I meant the question;

Usually, when you kill something on say, Manhunt or GTA, your only reward is that which the game provides.

If you're watching something that's intended, as a hentai, for you to jack off to, then you have the added association of sexual pleasure and watching rape. (With the obvious exception to people that might happen to jack off to watching people get murdered, which I suppose is possible)

 

It's not that since it's hentai, you must jack off to it, but that whoever produces it as part of that genre produces it for the purposes of jacking off to. (Correct me if I'm wrong in respect to the company/producers producing it for that purpose if they've stated otherwise somewhere)

3.  First of all, you can make a movie targeting a particular gender, ethnicity, or whatever.  It's protected speech and cannot be banned

Incitement to racial hatred is 'potentially illegal', according to the BBFC, the British film regulation's governing body. That is, however, on films, not on games, even though in the film, the victims would be fictional (the actors aren't, but they're acting, hence we assume it is fictional) Usually the BBFC will nag you to cut or edit the film, rather than banning outright.

There is some argument over live action vs drawn there, of course. Things are a little blurrier when it comes to drawn action - for example, it's illegal to have non-consentual acts (such as rape) even in an R18 (usually hardcore porn), but I've never come across any info about illustrated action.

 

If there's a market for it, it will get made.

That's true. It's just very unfortunate.

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

2.  I have no idea what you are asking then.

3.  What does incitement to racial hatred or, by extension, incitement to rape have to do with anything?  Rapelay in no way condones, promotes, or encourages real rape.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

Again, it's their site and they have to decide themselfes if they want to sell a product or not.

Personally, I think one should be able to buy it. Even if it is not family friendly. I just don't like the general idea that person B has the right to decide what person A should be reading/watching, or not, unless it is against the law.

We already live in a world where it's the norm that we have a long list of forbidden books in many cultures. Sure, depending on where you live, among those books might be the bible, erotic fiction, propaganda and 'how to build an atomic bomb with household goods'. 

Rape fiction makes highly questionable reading material, but it's more widespread than you might think, and read by responsible adults, I see no problem there. A game about it would seem to be the 'same thing, only different' to me. It's not going to help on the long run to just keep adding to this list of forbidden words. What's important is to verify at least the age and (if possible) the sanity of people who consume it, I guess.

 

 

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

Personally, I think one should be able to buy it. Even if it is not family friendly. I just don't like the general idea that person B has the right to decide what person A should be reading/watching, or not, unless it is against the law.

Amazon isn't preventing anyone from getting the game, they are just deciding not to sell it on their site. People seem to be under this assumption that Amazon offer a public service and that by dropping a product they are censoring it, they're not telling you that you can't play the game, they're not enforcing a ban on the game with the US.

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

"Amazon isn't preventing anyone from getting the game, they are just deciding not to sell it on their site. People seem to be under this assumption that Amazon offer a public service and that by dropping a product they are censoring it [...]"

Funny how you keep trotting out that claim, even when the poster above you explicitly acknowledges that Amazon is not in any way required to sell the game. I guess it's easier to argue against imaginary arguments than it is to argue against what people are actually saying.

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

And about the Anime haters siding with Game haters,

I think it is possible but kinda not realistic unless if Anime was really popular too.

You can also get some people who really hate Anime or Videogames, yet they don't want to bann it from others.

And then you get some Anime haters and Game haters that will try to bann the things they hate just to get some publicity as it has shown for politicians that this could be a good vote getter in a vital election.

So I am not so sure about the fear of Anime haters siding with Game haters, yes it can happen but so far since that Videogames are way more popular than Anime, and that Anime is still not really known for many people then I think it is only a 30% chance that Anime haters might side with Game haters,

but that is only just my opinion and of course I could be wrong.

 

TBoneTony

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

As far as the censorship debate goes my one real belief, and this only just my belief and not something that I know is either right or wrong, is that if an event is real, and the event was a crime, like a beheading of a real person or the sexual exploitation of a real child, then I would consider that illegal and needs to be censored to protect children and adults from seeing it

I guess that was also the reason why they censored the Stingray footage from Steve Irwins last ever documentry because that was the moment when he died, and I am sure many people never wanted to see graphic footage of it

I also seem to recall that even the photo of Hitler after he killed himself was eddited in some sort of way to avoid people being distressed from seeing a dead person

Even a photo or film of a woman being raped for real should deffinately be censored and taken off the market because it was a film of a realistic crime in full detail

Now when something is a fantasy that never uses real children, like a Hentai movie with Lolicon and things like that, it is ok because the characters are drawn and not real at all.

Yes some people will get offended, sadly we can't control what other people get offended over because it is a mixture of emotions based on an individuals thoughts and feelings of what they consider to be moral and ok compared something else that it is seen as obsence to them.

It is a hard line to talk about, but for me on a personal level, if the offending content is a real crime that is exploitated realisticly then it can be distrubing and within some people could be good to censor that detail.

Otherwise if the offending content is not meant to be real, then it is ok.

 

I could also speek for the people who create Hentai that they are not all bad people, yes the rapelay game could have been designed better if the main character was not a rapist, but the reality is that the creators of Hentai games might be trying to talk about the serious issue of rape in society and never did really want to offend people. It is hard to understand this unless if you really wanted to make a game that contained the theme main issues of rape in society.

 

TBoneTony

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

I could also speek for the people who create Hentai that they are not all bad people, yes the rapelay game could have been designed better if the main character was not a rapist, but the reality is that the creators of Hentai games might be trying to talk about the serious issue of rape in society and never did really want to offend people. It is hard to understand this unless if you really wanted to make a game that contained the theme main issues of rape in society.

 

To discuss rape in a hentai game is difficult because by its definition hentai is meant for adult entertainment. In that case, the rape is meant to be for the player's enjoyment. With the possible question of getting only 2 endings, both negative (I believe in both, you die.) In that respect, it could be interpretted as ironic, ultimately punishing the viewer because negative things happen to the protagonist, through whom the gamer experiences the game world.

Are there tears in the kid's eyes because inflicting pain is part of the control crime? Or is it to jerk at your moral heartstrings, telling you how wrong it is?

Rape can be discussed seriously without glorifying it. Apparently, many people found the film Irreversible more disturbing than other film depictions of rape because it was shot from a distance: rather than inadvertantly sexualising the victim with closeups of skin.

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

If they decided to ban all products on the holocaust and started promoting nazi propoganda, that's their perogative. It's their site.

What we have a choice in is whether or not we spend our money there. If they decide to ban a hentai rape game? Yeah, I'll still shop there. If I searched for a word used int hat game's title and pulled it up, I'd be gacked out.

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

I* have just one thing to say, and I don't think anyone will even read it, but this is it:

All you people who wanted this "horrible rape simulator" gone have just adopted the philosophy of our beloved Jack Thompson. You have now become little JT's, running around yelling about the horrible game that makes rape ok. His litmus test involves violence, yours involves involuntary sex acts. Both things are illegal in real life.

That being said, Amazon can do what they want, and they decided the controversy and possible hit to their reputation wasn't worth the small amount of money they were making from some asian rape game.

I am sure some of you people will say,"rape is different than murder". Well, yes, they are. The philosophy of banning games which you think are offensive is the same no matter what you are objecting to.

*The above mentioned "I" plays no rape games. Unless getting raped by the zombie hordes in Left 4 Dead counts.

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

Good point there. Voted unsure.

Getting raped by the Witch or the Tank would count more than the hordes.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Pelicans. Solidarity for the Saints = No retreat, no surrender. 2013 = Saints' revenge on the NFL. Even through the darkest days, this fire burns always.

GP: Hypocritical?

I hate to be a troll but here it goes:

I'm a long time reader of www.gamepolitics.com, but the poll itself actually upsets me. I'll explain why.

First off, when GP posted about Rapeplay it said the following:

"GP: While we find this game appalling, it is not a product of the U.S. or British video game industry. It is an import which is apparently only available through a single re-seller who specializes in the hentai market. We expect that Amazon will take the appropriate steps to correct the situation. "

On the next day, Feb 12, 2009 GP had this reaction to Amazon's decision:

"At the time we predicted that - since RapeLay was offered as a used product by re-seller Hentaiguy - Amazon likely didn't know about the game and would do the right thing when they found out."

With these comments, it would be assumed that GP itself was supporting Amazon's right to drop this game. In the Feb 12th article they even used the words "show him the door".

It seems that GP is like that kid who plays with fire and then gets upset when their shirt gets burned. I'm not upset with the description of the poll, but instead because this post has the tag "bad press". With this tag, it seems that GP is against Amazon's decision to drop the Hentai game. I find this very hypocritical.

I realize that this may not be the case at all, perhaps the three articles were written by different people and that accounts for the different perspectives. That is my main beef.

 

Here is what I actually believe:

"

  • Offensive material. Amazon.com reserves the right to determine the appropriateness of listings posted to our site. Examples of offensive items are soiled undergarments, crime-scene photos, and human organs and body parts. Be aware of cultural differences and sensitivities and be careful to post items that are appropriate for our global community.
  • Pornography. Pornography, X-rated movies, home porn, hard-core material including magazines that depict graphic sexual acts, amateur porn are prohibited. Unrated erotic videos and DVDs, properly censored erotic artwork and magazines of the type you'd find at a typical bookstore are permitted; product images that contain nudity, graphic titles, and descriptions must be sufficiently concealed with censor strips.

"

Amazon clearly states its policies on what can be sold. (Though admittedly, it took some searching) Amazon had the right to drop the game from their sellers list as it violated the Terms of Service. It's there site; if HentaiGuy wants to sell his used Hentaigames he can do it from his own website. Amazon was trying to calm the fire, and it is in my belief that they did the right thing.

On Amazon.co.jp as some of the comments have pointed out, Rapeplay is still available. For Amazon.co.jp’s guidelines I only found the following section (Amazon.co.jpの権利留保)to mention things that cannot be sold (If someone finds something else, please point it out). It was very broad and said things that are illegal and whatever the site may like cannot be sold. It’s much more liberal (They can even sell alcohol!) but that’s due to the cultural difference between the United States (Which is basically built upon Judeo-Christian ideas) and Japan.

www.katamaridemocracy.com

Re: GP: Hypocritical?

Amazon in Japan have different rules for porn or hentai and they can sell them only in Japan, as you tell.

The cynical side of videogames (spanish only): http://thelostlevel.blogspot.com/ My DeviantArt Page (aka DeviantCensorship): http://www.darkknightstrikes.deviantart.com/

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

There needs to be an option for "It's their choice, even if it is hypocritical/unfair/stupid."

Do I agree with the pull? No. Do I agree that they have the right to do so? Yes.

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

Once again....this has nothing to do with morality.  There are tons of hentai games out there that provide consensual and romantic porn....why aren't those listed then? 1) H-games are in low demand....no publisher would risk losing a profit on a extremely small minority.  2) Due to the lack of interest, the ESRB rates none of these games, except for a handful of games put out by brave American publishers.  3) Amazon odviously has a policy on only selling games that are rated by the ESRB (could also be a federal law)

Amazon did not remove Rapelay.  It's still avaliable on amazon.co.jp.  If you bothered to google translate the page, it clearly says that shipping is restricted everywhere except in Japan.  So odviously, the 2 copies that were avaliable bypassed customs to get into the states.

It was never meant to be sold outside of Japan, plain and simple.  Cry and bitch all you want about how they let other objectional material to be sold....everything on Amazon has been rated and authorized to be sold in the USA

Rapelay was NOT authorized to be sold on amazon.com or in the USA

now quit your bitching before Jacko takes note

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

Doesn't the first sale doctrine allow it to be resold in the US if an American is selling it, regardless of it it was intended to be sold here?

 

Importing is legal, unless I am wrong I thought that reselling imports was also legal.

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

Let's say that owning gernades is legal in Russia, but not in the USA.  I import the gernades from Russia.  Does that allow me to sell them in the USA legally?

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

A game like RapeLay is not illegal in the United States, so your analogy is invalid.


Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

then all that is left is Amazon refusing to sell non-ESRB games

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

But there are a good number of other non-ESRB rated games on Amazon as well, including all of their hentai games that do get official releases here in the US (some links were posted earlier in these comments, those hentai games although they have an 18+ thing on them, the ESRB didn't give them that, the company did)

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

But this game would be legal to sell in both Japan and the US by content, therefore that example is irrelevant.  The fact that it wasn't the company's intention to be sell in America doesn't make it illegal to buy or sell it in America as long as the copies of the game are legal copies themselves because of the first sale doctrine.

If an American  company were to uncensor it (Japanese hentai games are censored by law), then the uncensored version would be illegal in Japan, because the content itself is illegal, and this example would be relevant, but not in the case where it is legal in both locations.

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

Actually, if there is a license to do so, then yes. I believe, if a product does not violate any laws, then it's legal.

Let's say I wanted a flamethrower. Guess what, flamethrowers, believe it or not, ARE legal (as, there is no actual law regarding them). So I could legally import, and legally own, a flamethrower. But if I wanted, say, cocaine, then no. Because cocaine is an illegal substance, hence it is illegal to both import and own.

The producers of RapeLay, I think it is not that they intended it to never ever leave Japan. That would be completely stupid to think so. Rather, they targetted it to a Japanese audience, and the Japanese would be their main demographic upon which they would focus.

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

got to say.. its 100% up to amazon what they do. Its their store they can sell what they wish.

 

Howeverm to everyone who says this game should be banned, yet has fought in the past for our right to play violent video games such as GTA.... you are a hypocrite. Simple as that.

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

I'm amused that this poll will undoubtably be taken in the end as A black and white morality while many people are voting based on what they think the company was in their right to do. And I still say I wanna know why GP thinks it was the right thing to do.

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

It's so incredibly gray....

My thing is, the company can do whatever the hell they want. Is it right to pull the game? Well, it can avoid plenty of bad rep, and it IS a bad game. Is it wrong to pull the game? Well, it's hypocritical to have some products but take off others, and unfair to the seller (I'd just use eBay).

I support a COMPANY's right to sell whatever they want on their site, but I don't think it was necessarily "right" to pull it.

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

I voted no, but what I want to know is did the product in question violate the Amazon ToS? If it did, then it was the right call. It pretty much was the right call to make, even though I disagree with it. Amazon isn't obligated to sell anything by a third party and more than likely has a right of refusal in the ToS. It was the right business decision, but the wrong speech decision.

I find myself understanding and agreeing with both sides of the argument, but I personally have to side with the speech camp.

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

The fact all other adult products are left untouched makes this a mess.... this is a reactionary measure to save face....

 


And whats worse people are voting yes becuse they think the question being voted on is "dose amazon have the right" and not "was amazon right"........*sigh*

 


Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

I voted yes on this survey, and I do support a publisher's right to produce a product. However that doesn't mean a retailer should have to sell it. I'm pretty sure that if enough people complained the other products, like Bible Black, would be taken down as well.

Opponents of material like Rapeplay also have the right to speak out against it, and that seems to be a fact that's forgotten or ignored whenever a subject like this comes up.

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

i don't think its right in the terms of its merely a product of virtual reality, but in the sense of decency and the fact its their web site, i agree it was the right way to go.

they had the right to block it and took that right into effect.

though i find the product appalling, i do disagree people should slam it overly like it really hurts reality in any way whatsoever.

 

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

It's not censorship, it is a company deciding it is not in the best interest of their company to carry a certain product, or allow said product to be sold on their site.

 

It is no different from the code of conduct here.  It isn't censorship when a mod erases a comment for violating that code.

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

First of all: in general, it's better to have self regulation (you could, if you tried hard enough, still get the game somewhere, without committing an offense) than no self-regulation and the government steps in with its club.

I think people are more scared when it comes to sexually related influences, than social ones such as murder.

I think, absolutely, that the game should not have been made; unless its intention is completely ironic (ie, that at the end the protagonist dies or somehow gets what he deserves) which it doesn't appear to be, from what I've read.
Part of that is a knee-jerk reaction; rape? interactive rape? Rape that you, buy playing the game, choose to do (albeit ficticiously) and then get rewarded for? That actually makes me feel quite sick.
And rape... for enjoyment? Is this game an art form game, or is it an entertainment game. Last time I checked, commercial games were entertainment based.

Who is going to enjoy a game where you rape someone who "apparently" deserves it. Feminists (the reasonable ones that don't kick you in the shins for holding the door open) are fighting to get rid of the idea that a woman is responsible for her own rape (to suggest this also suggests all men are slavvering dogs that couldn't possibly restrain themselves when they see a bit of flesh, and unless you're a feminazi, you know that's not true), and then this game is all about getting revenge because (according to wikipedia) he got arrested for groping someone on a train.
A rape scene in which the message is "It is ok to rape in X circumstances. Rapist is the good guy." is far more disturbing than in a film or game where the rapist is the bad guy.

The obvious arguement is that "how is non-sexual violence any better?" Socially, we KNOW, and we are taught out loud that it is not ok to punch someone (for no reason) or stab someone. That's something taught into us from an early age.
At what age did your parents tell you that it's not ok to rape someone? At what age did your school explain to you proper sexual etiquette. They didn't. And that's why sexual violence is worse than violence alone; there's much less guidance, socially, for things of a sexual nature so things like this hit much, much closer to home.

Sorry if that's far, far too long. I do hope I don't come across as a feminazi. It is a double standard that the most people don't have the same reaction to women raping men; possibly because a lot of people don't seem to think it exists.

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

Well, I'm assuming that this game is a porn game (sure seems like it). And porn games are for...well, arousal. I can honestly say that I have a rape fantasy that I would like to try (with a willing woman, obviously), and a game about it would suit me quite well. I would never, EVER do it in real life, and would support changing the law to allow rapists to get the death penalty/life in prison.

Just because I "get off" on certain concepts doesn't mean I'd try it in real life (except as a roleplay, that'd be fun). I've thought about (quite vividly) shooting certain people, stealing certain stuff, all sorts of immoral/fun things, but I'd never do any of it, because there are consequences to every action.

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

It is a double standard that the most people don't have the same reaction to women raping men; possibly because a lot of people don't seem to think it exists.

or that in a lot of fictional cases, there isn't any violence involved. Examples include that the woman was fugly or the guy was gay or wanting to save his first time for someone else.

岩「…Where do masochists go when they die?」

岩「…I can see why Hasselbeck's worried about fake guns killing fake people. afterall, she's a fake journalist on a fake news channel」

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

People assume that men can't if they don't want to, and therefore he must want to. (Completely ignoring the fact that women can't, comfortably, if they don't want to. The female defence mechanism of 'CLENCH!' is flawed in that, it's still possible, it's just terribly painful.)

That might be true on one level (the hormonal one) but as you say, he may want to save his first time, etc etc. Arousal cannot be taken to mean "Yes" unless the word "yes" is explicitly spoken.

The assumption that men are hormonal, always up for it animals is just as harmful to men as "she's revealing flesh, therefore she must want it and it is impossible for it to be considered 'rape'" Not to mention the social paranoia of men that seems to be surfacing more and more.

And that's not even considering rape with tools, gay rape, and drugged rape.

 

(I was one of those paranoid-of-men people once. Yikes. Looking back, I offended huge amounts of people just by being absolutely terrified of being in the same room as them.)

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

"I think, absolutely, that the game should not have been made; unless its intention is completely ironic (ie, that at the end the protagonist dies or somehow gets what he deserves) which it doesn't appear to be, from what I've read. "

Well, having actually played the game (kill me if you want) there are two endings - suicide, or one of the girls kills you. When was the last time GTA showed you the consequences of your actions (beyond saying "hey, murder is fun, you get into some great car chases!")?

And frankly, if RapeLay is a Rape Simulator I can't understand why anyone would rape anyone else, the game's boring as hell.

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

Ah. I was under the impression from the wording that there were alternate endings to the two negative ones. If you have a freeform phase, does it allow you to rape forever or is it timed to get you a bad ending?

I wouldn't dare play it; I'm sensitive to such material and it would probably put me off for about a month. Though obviously it's helpful to hear to opinions of those that can and will play the game.

In GTA there's the risk factor: you get killed lots, you get arrested lots. For the most part, you're not killing innocents (not that that's really good justification for killing people, although someone shooting at you first might be read as "consent to have a fight").

And you're detached somewhat because you know certain aspects of it aren't nearly realistic (no forensics, silly police AI, etc)

 

The disturbing thing about a rape game is that the female body is a mystery to most women, nevermind men. (At least, with sex ed nowadays). So certain 'half truths' are reinforced and without the alternative information (again, at what age did your school start teaching you "it's bad to rape" or "bodily fluids do not equal consent" as opposed to "it's bad to hit other people.").

 

Basically, it's more the combination of a lack of information, or lack of willingness to discuss the issues, in society, rather than sexual violence as a standalone. It's just a dangerous combination; if you don't know what reasonable sexual behaviour is or your views are skewed to believe harmful sexual behaviour is ok, then this only reinforces those thoughts.

If you know what good sexual behaviour is and therefore would not be swayed, you're good to go. I have to admit I'm rather glad the game's not that enjoyable.

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

I don't really think there is a right move and a wrong move.

It's their site they can do with it what they please and not letting a grand total of two people sell their obscure used porno game over their site hardly seems like a big deal.

This is the internet folks and I'm sure ebay would be more than willing to let them sell rapeplay.

If I was in their shoes not sure what I would do but this hardly seems like a loss.

----------------------------------------------------

Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

I don't know whose voting yes, but they're wrong, especally since all thats going to do is open the floodgates for politicans and soccer moms to bitch about the other adult stuff on their site, so, I voted no.

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

the developers never intended Rapelay to be sold outside Japan. For all we know, THEY could've contacted Amazon and asked them to remove it

岩「…Where do masochists go when they die?」

岩「…I can see why Hasselbeck's worried about fake guns killing fake people. afterall, she's a fake journalist on a fake news channel」

Re: GP Poll: Was Amazon Right to Drop Rape Game?

If thats true, then I'd change my vote, but at the moment I'm still thinking its because of Vaz bitching about it, so at the moment, my vote still remains no until I hear something different.

 
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prh99The unflattering characterization "They don’t know how to dress or behave." & "‘Games culture’ is a petri dish of people who know so little about how human social interaction..." probably didn't help.10/02/2014 - 1:52am
prh99Probably not many as it was purely a vindictive move. The headline alone was plenty of ammo, but for those that did read and complain..10/02/2014 - 1:42am
Andrew EisenI wonder how many of those who complain about that article actually read past the headline.10/02/2014 - 1:37am
prh99http://intel.ly/1tjh1AH http://bit.ly/1rGPHOY http://intel.ly/Zu6go9 it isn't surprising "Gamers are over" didn't go over very well.10/02/2014 - 1:34am
Papa MidnightCan you parlay that to #WriteAGawkerArticle? The cesspool of horrid crap over there extends far beyond Kotaku.10/02/2014 - 12:34am
Andrew EisenWow! Intel dropped Gamasutra due to GameJournoPros? Over Matt Matthews? The only Gamasutra guy in the group? Who hasn't written a single thing about #GamerGate at the site? Where did you read that?10/02/2014 - 12:32am
Neo_DrKefka#WriteAKotakuArticle "#GamerGate is responsible for breaking millions of Intel powered macbooks after angry SWJ hipsters slam them shut" or "How Toxic Processors from Intel causes sexism. "10/02/2014 - 12:15am
Neo_DrKefkaSo Intel has dropped Gamesutra due to there support of your Gaming News Cabal Fudge. Anti GamerGate article soon? Or like your e-mails are you hoping this narrative dies down soon?10/02/2014 - 12:14am
Andrew EisenWell, time to eat some dinner and work on the Hyrule Warriors guide until bedtime!10/02/2014 - 12:11am
Andrew EisenJust finished my stream. That... could have gone better. Technical issues prevented me from playing a console game so I instead played and bitched about The Walking Dead for two hours. Oh well, the folks watching still seemed to enjoy it.10/02/2014 - 12:09am
Matthew Wilsonwe all know valve can not cout to 3.10/02/2014 - 12:08am
MechaTama31Who cares? Gimme Portal 3!10/01/2014 - 9:38pm
quiknkoldAndrew : Mostly I decided there were better people who could explain what was going on, or fight any battles that may come up. so I decided not to talk about it anymore.10/01/2014 - 8:49pm
Andrew EisenI don't recall you promising that. GamerGate is not a taboo discussion here. Anyway, thanks for the link. Very interesting.10/01/2014 - 8:47pm
quiknkoldI know I promised to not talk about Gamergate again, but Intel just pulled sponsership from Gamasutra over it http://techraptor.net/2014/10/01/gamasutra-intel/10/01/2014 - 8:40pm
quiknkoldP.T. is a game I just cannot play alone. I puss out hard on it. need somebody with me when I play that. Kojima was right. it is Pants Shittingly Scary10/01/2014 - 6:17pm
quiknkold@james_fudge not playin all the way through. P.T, Silent Hill(Not sure which), Resident Evil Gamecube Remake, Alien Isolation, Ghostbusters, Outlast, Super Castlevania 410/01/2014 - 6:04pm
james_fudgeI wish I could like that last shout.10/01/2014 - 5:48pm
MechaTama31Tried out Sims 4 on my brother in law's pc. Promptly got my sim exhausted, to soil himself, then sent him without cleaning up to mock people at the museum. Good times...10/01/2014 - 5:33pm
E. Zachary KnightSo they figured out how to share CPU cycles between pools and their advanced emotions engine? Sweet.10/01/2014 - 2:53pm
 

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