Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

March 12, 2009 -

While violent video games often come in for blame when school shootings occur, a new book maintains that such rampages occur because school shooters are mentally disturbed.

The Associated Press reports on Why Kids Kill: Inside the Minds of School Shooters, written by  Peter Langman. The child psychologist studied ten school shooters, including Columbine killers Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold and Virginia Tech mass murderer Seung-Hui Cho. Of his research, Langman said:

The biggest eye-opener was the extent to which Dylan Klebold really was mentally disturbed. That was not in the literature, not in the media accounts. To realize that, you had to see his journal. His journal is very fascinating, a very disturbed piece of writing.

 

[Klebold and four other shooters] were suicidally depressed and full of rage at the inexplicable unfairness of life. In addition, they were not living in reality. They all believed that people or monsters conspired to do them harm. ... They were confused and desperate and lost in the mazes of their minds.

Langman speculated that Tim Kretschmer, who attacked his former school and killed 16 people yesterday in Germany might be psychotic, psychopathic or a victim of childhood trauma. But Langmant emphasized that it was too early to make such a call. The AP writes:

At first, Langman's conclusions might sound obvious: These kids would have to be crazy to go to their school and open fire. But the public and the media, especially in the immediate aftermath of a school shooting, have usually focused on other factors: the killers' fascination with violent movies and video games, their easy access to guns, even the side effects of psychiatric drugs.

Langman says some of these may have been factors but do not by themselves explain rampages in places like Littleton and West Paducah, Ky.; Jonesboro, Ark.; and Springfield, Ore. Millions of kids watch violent movies and live in households that harbor firearms. Yet only a few have ever gone on to become mass murderers.


Comments

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

It's just plain not true. Except if the book redefines "unhappiness with life" as a mental illness. I've been interested in the subject for quite a while now, and I've seen the goodbye notes from several of these school shooters, for example.

I've taken a look at their home pages, and I've read lots of Articles and Documents about them and the incidents.

 

And you know what? None of them struck me as mentally ill. They were all smart, seemingly normal people. The only differences I've noticed that they were always dissatisfied with life, with humanity, with the planet they lived on, with their family, with their school, what have you.

 

They were *so* fed up with it all that they usually sought out one specific kind of fantasy to flee into and shield themselfes from the rest of the worlds sights and sounds. That was sometimes a movie, sometimes a game, sometimes made-up world domination stories, or end-of-the-world predictions, and such.

 

Again, these people were not sick in the head, they weren't dumb either. I'm not defending them, I just hate to see the attempts to make them *look like* they were simply too stupid or mentally ill. The truth is they were filled with rage so much that they turned numb to having feelings for people, and started killing at some point. They were murderers, and to they were convinced (or convinced themselfes) that these things had to happen.

 

Whenever there's one of these shootings I see media reports on blaming video games, blaming parents, blaming this and that, followed closely by reports on the mental sicknesses some people just *have* to assume the shooter had. These shooters were 'sick' in a disgusting kind of way, because of what they did, but they weren't raving lunatics, they were ice cold murderers in the end.

 

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

This book only states the obvious of what we already knew. Most mass murderers have had some case mental illness as well as psychological or physical abuse yet the media never pays attention to that. I find it funny though how it's always video games that spawn the school shooters yet they don't get blamed for crazy postal workers and disgruntled employees or the random nutjob who goes into a cafe or shopping mall armed to the teeth, what made them kill? The problem is we keep acting as if school shootings are any different then the crazy postal workers and others. They aren't any different, same circumstances, same contributing factors. The problem is that we as a society are in denial that teenagers or kids could do something so evil and henious because we falsely assume that young people are "innocent"(totally untrue, espicially this generation) and because of that we blame somebody else for it. We need to start taking responsibility and realize that our kids can be evil as well, just as evil as the worst adults.

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

 

"The biggest eye-opener was the extent to which Dylan Klebold really was mentally disturbed. That was not in the literature, not in the media accounts. To realize that, you had to see his journal. His journal is very fascinating, a very disturbed piece of writing."

That's true and this is what show the Colombine shooters who they are.  I guess JT and other video game critics doesn't believe the journal thing.

"[Klebold and four other shooters] were suicidally depressed and full of rage at the inexplicable unfairness of life. In addition, they were not living in reality. They all believed that people or monsters conspired to do them harm. ... They were confused and desperate and lost in the mazes of their minds."

That's what I notice in infamous school shootings, the shooters took their own life.  I don't remember any video game they own has any suicide in there.  It wasn't video game that made them do it.  I believe it their psychological problem or something from the past.

"At first, Langman's conclusions might sound obvious: These kids would have to be crazy to go to their school and open fire. But the public and the media, especially in the immediate aftermath of a school shooting, have usually focused on other factors: the killers' fascination with violent movies and video games, their easy access to guns, even the side effects of psychiatric drugs."

There you go, it's not video game that make them killer.  It's how and what they think makes them a killer.  Killers always watch violent entertainment, they can get guns easily just by stealing it from their parents or steal it from the gun store or buy it on the black market.  Video game do not make killers, a person's mental state create killers.  Also, I read Kretschmer said he was going to do the school shooting via video blog, you can read it on CNN .   

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

From what I can tell, all this author is saying is that the shooters are mentally ill not that all mentally ill are potential shooters. It's the same argument gamers use; just because the shooter is a gamer doesn't mean all gamers are potential shooters.

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

One of, or several of the gaming supporting organisations really should 'gift' this book to a number of prominent politicians. It'll make a far better point of the issue than the angry ravings of all of us will.

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

It's too bad that nearly all school shootings end in the same way- the murderer takes his own life. They may be nut cases, but they end up acting woefully predictable. Their suicides are actually helping other people jump to incorrect conclusions about what went wrong.

If we captured the murderers alive, authorities would be able to interrogate them and get motivations from a genuine source. But with them out of the picture, we get politicians and other public figures trying to read their minds while pushing their own agenda.

The most unbiased source for explaining a murder is, ironically, the murderer himself. He knows what's going on, and everyone else can just try to form a guess (whether it's educated or inconclusive).

GameSnooper

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

unfortunately I would fear that some may turn to the "video games made me do it" defense so as to get a more slack jail term, god knows its happened before for smaller scale killinga, luckily so far unsuccessfully

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

No!  This guy is crazy, and a monster to even suggest that violent maniacs are psychopaths!  The murderers are obviously normal people made deranged by playing games.  It HAS to be the vidja games!

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

OK after just reading the article about him being a CS player (I think these things get reported by some kind of automatic propaganda machine whenever there's a shooting - evidence or not... it's like clockwork)...


What actually worries me more is this quote :

"German Interior Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble said he could not see how a change in the country's weapons laws would have prevented what happened.

"We are checking everything but our arms law is very strict," he said.

But he said Germany had to consider whether tighter controls on access to violent imagery were needed."

"The gun's aren't the problem (because the gun lobby is powerful), it's the damn media... we'll get right on it."

It seems so transparent to me, I don't understand how these people can say these things with a straight face.

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

Germany has a gun lobby?

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

Gun Gallery

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

FWIW, Germany already has fairly strict gun laws, AFAIK. The only restriction I can see making this tragedy less likely would be to outright prohibit guns in private homes (i.e. sports shooters' guns are kept under lock and key at the shooting range). The gun used by Tim Kretschmer was one his father (who owned several guns) had failed to lock away as he was legally required to do.

We can only make laws. We cannot ensure that they are absolutely obeyed at all times. Not without turning into a police state, anyway. In the end, we must accept that tragedies happen, and that we can't prevent them all.

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

Probably why they try to be fancy and "professional" sounding with it; that way, you're too busy thinking of the words you are going to say, keep the mind occupied from how much bullshit it is.

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

/sarcasm Wow really? I had no idea!

I'm going to publish a book about water is wet.

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

"Mental illness" comes in a great many forms and varieties.  When the average person sees "mental illness", they think "crazy" and that's as far as it goes.

But, in the complexity that is the individual Human, the effects of the psychological can affect each of us in a great many ways.  And all the other factors that make each of us up has a great deal to do with how those psychological effects play a part as well.

So many factors go into determining how any one individual will react in any given situation at any given second of that situation, that it is completely impossible to predict any one individual's choices in advance.  Even profilers do not have the capability to predict every action of an individual, even if they knew who the individual was because they cannot know every single detail, the life experiences, the genetic dispositions or probabilities, the personalities, and all the other factors, about the individual.

We all go through life not even thinking about all the factors that actually do have an effect on us and lead us to act in certain situations.  But those factors still exist.

And as the doctor said, no one factor is to blame for any act.  While the doctor can no more know every single factor in each of the subject's individuality, he still does a very good job of trying to point out that each of the subjects were individuals who were far more complex than what has been presented in the media and elsewhere.

And while we know this to be obvious, there still are a great many uneducated or even intentionally ignorant individuals who set out to intentionally lie to and deceive others for their own personal, religious, and/or political agendas.  So, yes, the necessity of such a book is of great value.

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

This person is obviously a shill for the video games industry...

</sarcasm>

------- Morality has always been in decline. As you get older, you notice it. When you were younger, you enjoyed it.

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

BBC news have reported that the Tim Kretschmer warned of the attacks in an internet chatroom the day before.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7939528.stm

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

Well that clinches it! The intartubes made him do it!

--------------------------------------------------

I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

Yes, we must ban the indarvebs! Its tubes are clogged with grotesque violence, rape, and murder simulators!

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

You got to understand the people who were treated harshly in the school to fully realize that this is a problem within society and how people treat each other.

And finally we get this book that gets closer into talking about it.

Even though some of the school shooters killed themselves on the day they went on rampage, we would learn allot more about their state of minds by looking at the evidence of what they wrote about their feelings in their diarys.

Sadly for many people, this never gets talked about because the news media only focuses on what sells as news.

And talking about someone's feelings is not as newsworthy as blaming something else that just happens to be a little more popular with the youth culture.

So in a way, the youth culture has been scared not by the school shootings but by the way the mainstreem media picks on the things that the youth like because the mainstreem news media don't care about telling people the truth when they can make as much money out of telling lies and getting money from newsworthy stories.

Sad truth, but lucky it sounds like this book goes a long way in trying to understand the real reasons behind the school shootings that needs to be told but never is because it is just not as interesting to the mainstreem news media.

 

TBoneTony

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

Well there was obviously some sort of mental degeneration in all of these incidents.  Whether it was actual mental illness that went unchecked or a process that was started and spurred on by social pressure and a poor environment can only be determined in a case-by-case basis.

Mental illness, in and of itself, isn't going to cause a person to lash out so violently unless it's either an extreme case where the mind is totally "broken" or if said illness goes unchecked.

 

Tea and cake or death! Tea and cake or death! Little Red Cook-book! Little Red Cook-book!

Tea and cake or death! Tea and cake or death! Little Red Cook-book! Little Red Cook-book!

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

A few minutes ago, the police announced at the press conference, that Tim Kretschmer had psychic problems and was in treatment several times but apparently stopped going to the clinic a while ago. They mentioned it in the context of his army-checkup (every german men has to go there) but I´m not sure whether they discovered it there or if it was just the first public record of it. So it seems to stenghten Langmans position.

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

So, he was Tetsuo from Akira?


Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?" Pinky: "I think so, Brain, but we're already naked."

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

No. School shooters are not mentally ill.

To a large extent, school shootings are a byproduct of the social atmosphere in High Schools (and to a lesser degree, college). High School is an exercise in social darwinism, where those who have the most connections will do the best, while those who want to succeed but are "deviants" are cast out like lepers, creating an artificial "us or them" mentality in the school.

"In addition, they were not living in reality. They all believed that people are monsters conspired to do them harm. ... They were confused and desperate and lost in the mazes of their minds."

The thing that the good doctor does not mention is that Humans are inherently selfish dicks. They may not CONSPIRE to do one harm, but they are not above it in the least if they will gain some amusement or benefit from it. What do you think pushes students to beat up "the weird kid"? Mental illness? Or dickheaded selfishness?

I have been in such a "mentally ill state", and I have Aspergers, which already makes me "mentally ill." When you are the deviant in high school, you are hated, beaten up, and spat upon for no good reason other than being different. And when you are abused and maligned daily, the hate eats away at you and your humanity, and you begin to hate all of humanity for it's selfishness.

The atmosphere of High Schools needs to change in order to reverse the trend of school shootings, and it's an EXTREMELY EASY COPOUT to say that "oh, these kids just snapped", because it means that nobody has to try fixing anything, they can just rest easy because the kids were crazy, not byproducts of their social system.

Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?" Pinky: "I think so, Brain, but we're already naked."

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

You are grossly, and irresponsibly, oversimplifying the effects of "social darwinism" in a high school setting.  If you weren't, we'd be up to our eyeballs in school shooters.

The number of kids who are demonized, ostracized, ridiculed, and the like is actually probably on par with the number of people out there who...play violent video games.  And just like violent video games, statistics pretty much blows your claim out of the water.

If anything is problematic about this article, it's simply the headline.  "Mentally Ill" covers an enormous range of conditions, some of which can indeed cause anti-social and/or psychotic behavior, up to and including mass murder.  Bullying or a similar outside force is the catalyst that sets off this kind of behavior, it's not the foundation.  If you removed the psychosis from a sick, teased child, the odds of him killing his tormentors is negligible, but if you remove the teasing and ignore the psychosis, the odds of an anti-social outlash is still non-trivial.

"The atmosphere of High Schools needs to change in order to reverse the trend of school shootings, and it's an EXTREMELY EASY COPOUT to say that "oh, these kids just snapped", because it means that nobody has to try fixing anything, they can just rest easy because the kids were crazy, not byproducts of their social system."

What an utterly ridiculous statement.  Of course we still need to try and improve the situation even if these kids are unwell.  Believe me, I will be one of the first ones on the picket line to try and eradicate bullying in our schools if and when the practical opportunity to do so arises, but saying that it's all bullying and that mental conditions have no bearing on the situation is doing everyone involved just as much of a disservice as the idiots claiming that it's violent media entirely at fault.

Now if you want to talk about suicidal tendencies, I may very well be willing to concede that bullying is at least as big a factor, if not greater, than pre-existing mental conditions, but that is another debate for another time.

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

"Now if you want to talk about suicidal tendencies, I may very well be willing to concede that bullying is at least as big a factor, if not greater, than pre-existing mental conditions, but that is another debate for another time."

The nature of the school shooting mentality is "I WANT TO DIE, BUT I WILL NOT DIE ALONE."

School shootings are basically Suicide Plus, and thus your argument that they are two different issues with two different causes is moot.

Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?" Pinky: "I think so, Brain, but we're already naked."

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

"The nature of the school shooting mentality is "I WANT TO DIE, BUT I WILL NOT DIE ALONE."

Is a decision birthed from a mentally ill mind.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

I think you are overreacting a bit.

I don't think this book wants to, or would even try to label everyone with a mental illness as a possible mass murderer.

There are hundreds possibly thousands of mental conditions that humans suffer. To label all of them as a potential threat to public safety would be a very ignorant thing to do. So I highly doubt that any doctorate would attempt such a claim.

What this book is most likely trying to do is find out just what the condition of these killers minds were in before they snapped so that we can have a better understanding of what to look for in the future.

Most of these killers suffered some kind of depression. Yes there is more than one kind. But it is treatable. But am I saying that all depressed people are going to snap and kill people? No. But severe cases of depression can lead to suicide and possibly killing someone who the depressed person feels is responsible for thier feelings.

Mental illness is a very complex issue and I think you are jumping the gun on what this book is saying.

I suggest that you calm down a bit and wait until you have more information.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

Yes, school shooters largely are mentally ill. "Mentally Ill" covers the entire range of "something not right in the head". When we say that the shooters were/are mentally ill, we don't mean they have Aspergers, we mean they've got psychopathy, or psychosis, or clinical depression.

-Gray17

-Gray17

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

Or a possibly number of other things, perhaps a personality disorder. Or maybe they developed something due to heavy abuse as a child. The list goes on.

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

Or a possibly number of other things, perhaps a personality disorder. Or maybe they developed something due to heavy abuse as a child. The list goes on.

Exactly.

-Gray17

-Gray17

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

but doesn't include Counterstrike, DOOM, Halo, or even PONG, right?

300 Episodes and counting: http://www.orangeloungeradio.com/

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Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

Yes and no; you were fine right up until Pong.

That game, has to be the absolutely most violent game ever made; it's so horribly gruesome that not even I can defend such a henious creation!

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

Wrong.  A sane mentally healthy person, regardless of their place in the school "caste" system, will not kill people- because they are SANE.  Many people are bullied & picked on, and the overwhelming majority of them never lash out.  If what you are saying is true, then we would be up to our necks in Highschool age corpses. 

"Mentally Ill" is an umbrella term just like "cancer"- there are many types with varying properties. 

I had no friends until I was 16, beat up almost daily, and ridiculed constantly.  This was the 80's, so the teachers didn't care and actually encouraged bullying.  Nearly all of the bullies were athletic "early bloomers".  In fact, I can say with a degree of certainty that I endured unusually intense amounts of bullying in shool- some things I was subject to were criminal.  I can say first hand that this caused great amounts of anger that I harbor to this very day- but I never killed my calssmates...had I been "mentally ill", the story might have been different. 

In all fairness, I doubt people with Aspergers are dangerous- the ones I know all seemed like good people.  However, there are other types of mental illness that are less passive...

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

What is "sane", Zero? "Sane" is a very vague term. I could be "insane" because I talk about bad taste subjects. I could be "insane" because I have Aspergers. I could be "insane" because the hate for my tormentors and betrayers is neverending. I could be "insane" because I play violent video games. What is "mentally ill"? Aspergers? Bipolar? Psychopathy? Schizophrenia?

First and foremost, it takes a loss of empathy with people at a High School to want to perpetrate a school shooting; you must believe them beneath you and with no rights worth respecting. How is this different from those jock assholes who brutalize millions of students a day?

In Japan, it was once that if someone disrespected you, you would duel to the death, and to not do so would be worse than death. Does that make Samurai murderers?There are people in Iraq right now killing people. Does the act of killing make one a murderer? Is it the intent? The cause? Does anything that happened prior matter? If someone raped, killed, and ate your mother, would you want to "murder" them? Would you be justified? The legal system would say "No, even if this man murdered and ate your mother, he still has the right to live". But does he?

What makes one act of brutality worse than the other? 
Why do school torturers get away with so much, and yet it is wrong to retaliate in ANY way, whether by words, fist or Kalashnikov? Who will these people answer to?

Again, it is VERY, VERY EASY to say "They're mentally ill", because no one needs to change. No one needs to treat each other better. We can just go back to the way we were, betraying our friends because they are no longer convinient, watching horrible abuse and laughing in a circle of cruelty, and never making a difference.

 

 

Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?" Pinky: "I think so, Brain, but we're already naked."

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

"Again, it is VERY, VERY EASY to say "They're mentally ill", because no one needs to change. No one needs to treat each other better."

That is only true if:

a) each event can only ever have one cause

AND

b) the only reason to work against bullying is to prevent school shootings.

I think it's pretty obvious that both a and b are false. And anyway, it seems to me that you're arguing against the truth value of a statement ("school shooters are mentally ill") based on the perceived consequences of it being true. That's a logical fallacy (appeal to consequences). I think you'd be better served by finding arguments for a more inclusive school environment that don't implicitly blame the victims of school shootings for their own deaths.

Also: of Tim Kretschmer's victims at the school (haven't found info on the ones killed elsewhere), all three teachers were female, as were eight of the nine students. All twelve were shot in the head, indicating a less than random spread of fire. Is that consistent with the "jocks got what was coming to them" theory?

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

What is "mentally ill"? Aspergers? Bipolar? Psychopathy? Schizophrenia?

It's all of those and more. 

-Gray17

-Gray17

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

Many, many, more.

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

FWIW, I know a guy with Asperger's who used to beat up his younger siblings. But his home life wasn't exactly ideal, so it's probably just as likely there were other causes.

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

I, myself, have a mild case of Asperger's. And I'm not really any more violent than, well, probably anyone here. Sure, I've had fights with my own sister, but I have never, purposefully, physically harmed anyone, nor do I have any such intention unless it is a situation that calls for it (such as fending oneself from a criminal).

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

The phrase "mentally ill" umbrellas a fairly large psychiatric field of conditions I'm sure.  Some of these people may not have had schizophrenia (not sure on the spelling there) or other labeled conditions, but they definitely were not right in the head.  There are a lot of people who get bullied in elementary and high school, and college, I was lucky, I was not a target as much as others.  The issue is that there are many individuals who do not deal with bullying in a healthy way, and I'm not inferring that bullying should happen by that statement, and they turn to suicide, or in even more rare cases they go on a murdering spree.  These individuals need medical attention to help them deal with what has happened, and in many school shooting cases it has surfaced where the shooters have not been entirely connected to the real world, either due to some condition or by simply not dealing with their stresses in a way that was healthy, their reality was fractured by pain and suffering, leading to hate of everyone.  Many of these individuals have been receiving treatment for their issues and voluntarily (it seems) turned away from the treatment.  I just can't see how you can say that these people don't have some form of psychological issue or condition.  In many cases where media violence is to blame for example, many of the violent individuals have a predisposition to violence referred to either by people who knew them, or medical practicioners who were working with them.  In the case of school shootings my belief is that there is a predisposition that some people have to not dealing with the psychological stress of our social world.

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

I was teased allot in school when I was younger,

then I went into a new school and started to act like I was one of the cool kids,

not many people teased me at the new school because I acted cool, but the sad thing was I kept myself away from even making any close friends.

All the people I knew at school were just people I knew, but I kept myself away from making close friends because I was so afraid of being teased.

When I finally opened myself up when I got into college, I found myself a few good friends, but at the same time I treid to do the same thing when I started work and I got teased at work and quit my job because of the teasing getting almost to the point where it was almost like the abuse I got when I was in school.

So yeah, it was hard to quit my job because I liked it there, but I quit because I had that choise,

At school, you don't have any choise to quit.

You only are forced to believe that if you make it though year 12 or what ever you need to get our full marks, then you are a winner. And if you give up then you are made to feel like a looser.

So you keep on staying and going though hell until you go to a new school and start fresh again.

Yet what also most likely happens is if you do the same thing, you still get teased and if you try something different then you still get teased.

People talk so much about how it is important to be social but in the end tying to become social only leads you to be teased or bullied because you are easy to be picked on.

If you try to retaliate to try and stop the bullies of bullying you, you get in trouble by the teacher seeing you hitting the bully, but they don't see when the bully was teasing you first.

It is this violent and insensitive life we all live in school and we either take it on the chin or at least islolate ourselves from social contact to avoid it.

and we get bullied by even trying to isolate ourselves too.

So that was why I pretended to be one of the popuar kids even though I was isolated most of the time, it was because I was afraid to become bullied by trying to become social like I was in I was in my younger school years when I was being teased.

 

TBoneTony

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

I think what sets these shooters aside and qualifies them as "mentally ill" is the fact that, when most can't take it anymore, they take it out on themselves. Suicide by bullying. School shooters however take it out on those who pushed them that far.

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill


Suicide makes much less sense.

If these people have pushed you to the point of wanting death, why would you kill yourself when these other people are the cause of your hate and rage and self-depression?

They don't want to cop out of life, they want REVENGE.

Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?" Pinky: "I think so, Brain, but we're already naked."

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

How do you that they don't want to cop out of life? Did you ask them? No wait, you couldn't. They're (nearly) all dead.

As far as I can make out, school shooters want both revenge and their own deaths. Dylan Klebold, for example, quite clearly didn't expect to survive the Columbine shooting (http://www.acolumbinesite.com/quotes2.html#420).

And if you want less stigma directed towards the mentally ill, it would probably be more productive to ask people to use more precise terms (paranoid schizophrenia, psychosis, etc.) if you feel that calling these killers "mentally ill" is demeaning to people who are no risk to others. Because as I see it, the point isn't that mental disorders never make people violent, but that that it's a very broad term that should only really be used for lack of a specific diagnosis.

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

You're right, suicide doesn't make sense. However when pushed day after day and constantly told how worthless you are, the majority internalize it. They begin to believe that everyone else is right, since that's what the majority think. And if everyone else agrees, then the only reasonable thing (given the perspective) is to remove the common denominator, themselves.

If one or two people have a problem with you, it's probably them. After the third, you need to start looking at yourself. Old rule of thumb I leaned from the folks growing up.

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

Somebody remove the ban for this topic- I NEED to hear Jack Thompson argue that these child killers aren't mentally ill.

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

It's a pathetically easy and self-deluding thing to say that all school shooters are mentally ill, Zero. Because they're not, and the "mentally ill" do not need any more stigma than they already have.

 

The "mentally ill" need help, not even more stigma from ignorant people.

Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?" Pinky: "I think so, Brain, but we're already naked."

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

Um, a mentally healthy person does not go into a school and kill people randomly.  Explain how a sane person would do that.

Re: Author of New Book: School Shooters Are Mentally Ill

if the people were zombies

There have always been motherf*ckers, there will always be motherf*ckers, but what we can't do is let them control our motherf*cking lives. -John Oliver, December 1st, 2008

There have always been motherf*ckers, there will always be motherf*ckers, but what we can't do is let them control our motherf*cking lives. -John Oliver, December 1st, 2008
 
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Andrew EisenWhat I find most amazing is the fact that Yiannoppoulos's evidence doesn't in any way support his claim. And I still fail to see the lack of ethics in discussing the ethics surrounding public interest vs. personal privacy.09/19/2014 - 4:13pm
Andrew EisenOh yeah, some outlets sensationalize things (especially with the chosen headline). No argument there. As far as gender issues not being widespread? I'm inclined to disagree but I suppose it depends on what specifically you're talking about.09/19/2014 - 3:43pm
SleakerI think I've been qualitatively informed by those Factual Femenist videos that there isn't reallly a widespread gender issue, and that there are select news outlets that try to sensationalize things.09/19/2014 - 3:37pm
james_fudgeI'm just going to leave this here before someone else does:http://yiannopoulos.net/2014/09/19/gamejournopros-zoe-quinn-email-dump/09/19/2014 - 3:21pm
NeenekoI have met some real jerks and slimeballs in gender activism, but when I hear the idea that there are many 'not nice' people it comes across as code for 'uppity people who do not know their place'.09/19/2014 - 12:10pm
Andrew EisenKrono - Many of the people pushing gender issues aren't nice people? I'm sure not everyone's a sweatheart but so far, everyone I've seen with such a critique had absolutely nothing to back them up.09/19/2014 - 10:46am
InfophileI think there's a qualitative difference between a site and a hashtag though. GP can ban anyone from commenting, so they can have the image they want. But anyone can use any hashtag and try to poison it. Granted, that hasn't happened to the other one yet09/19/2014 - 10:13am
E. Zachary KnightKrono, your comparison to GP does not work. We do not need to get rid of GP, because no one associates GP with trolls and abuse. The same can't be said for gamergate.09/19/2014 - 10:09am
Krono@Michael You don't remember the "other hashtag" because no one actually uses it. We're talking 836,983 uses of #gamergate over it's lifetime, and 8,119 for the "alternative". 47,129 uses on the 18th vs 41. With #notyourshield at 140,133 uses & 5,209 uses09/19/2014 - 9:48am
Kronoresearch it. Changing tags to get away from trolls would be like wiping GamePolitics and restarting under a new name to get away from people calling Jack Thompson a filthy names in the comments section.09/19/2014 - 9:35am
Sleaker@quiknkold - seems like all that page is is a bunch of random developer opinions and rumors that we're supposedto do what with?09/19/2014 - 9:31am
Kronoas an opportunity to push back against them. It's one of the things muddling the issue. @conster A new hashtag would do nothing to improve anything. Trolls will simply follow to the new hashtag, and it will confuse the issue for anyone attempting to09/19/2014 - 9:25am
Krono@Andrew aaah. Yes, I'm sure there's some of that. Part of the problem is many of the people pushing gender issues are not very nice people. Basically the latest incarnation of moralists we've seen in the past couple decades. Naturually some will take this09/19/2014 - 9:23am
quiknkoldhttp://www.nichegamer.net/2014/09/real-gamedevs-sound-off-regarding-the-gamergate-controversy/09/19/2014 - 8:35am
MaskedPixelanteMeanwhile, in news that actually DOES matter, Scotland voted "NO" to Scottish independance.09/19/2014 - 8:20am
ConsterSeriously? "We shouldn't make a new hashtag - it's better to associate ourselves with psychos than to decrease our visibility"?09/19/2014 - 7:54am
Michael ChandraI forget what it is exactly, but there already is another hashtag that some use, exactly to separate themselves from the abusive behaviour. So don't bother lying to me.09/19/2014 - 7:06am
quiknkold2 to 3 or more09/19/2014 - 6:53am
quiknkoldMichael Chandra : I'll say this. The only reason they havent used another hashtag is because it would look like a form of dividing the arguement. Using another Hashtag has come up, and they feel like if they made a new hashtag, it'll split the debate from09/19/2014 - 6:53am
Michael ChandraYou want a debate? Build a wall between you and the poisoned well. Make clear you despise it, despise the behaviour. Then get into the other issues you are troubled with, and don't say a single word again about the poisoned well.09/19/2014 - 3:46am
 

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