L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From Amazon.com, Why Did Film with Brutal Rape Scene Get R-rating?

March 12, 2009 -

Just yesterday, Los Angeles Times entertainment columnist Patrick Goldstein suggested that RapeLay, the controversial Japanese hentai game, was sleazier than any Hollywood movie.

Today, he is apparently not so sure.

What happened to change his mind? Goldstein writes that he wasn't aware of the new film The Last House on the Left:

I guess I owe the makers of RapeLay, the vile Japanese rape-simulator video game, an apology... the [Last House on the Left] remake is even more graphic and disturbing than the [original]. The film's rape scene has already aroused widespread critical outrage...

Roger Ebert, the dean of American critics... lamented: "So now my job as a film critic involves grading rape scenes..."

 

How is it possible that the MPAA ratings board could give a film with this much brutal, graphic violence an R rating instead of an NC-17? I mean, what would it take for the clueless MPAA, which is supposed to serve concerned parents, not powerful studios, to ever draw the line and say to a filmmaker: "You've gone too far..."

 

If the MPAA is willing to give an R rating to "The Last House on the Left," which would allow me to take a bunch of kids to see this new film, then why shouldn't Amazon be allowed to sell Japan's RapeLay video game? It sounds to me like the movie and the video game are really playing in the same "How low can you go?" ballpark.

GP: For clarification's sake, there is no regulatory bar to stop Amazon from selling RapeLay. The giant online retailer voluntarily removed the game, which was being offered by an obscure third-party re-seller.


Comments

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From

I have no explanations why I feel this way but...

#1, I feel completly fine about depicting a rape scene in a movie ; It's horror, pure horror. Blown up guts, liters of blood. That no longer works, we've seen it all by now, thanks to most Freddy and Friday the 13th movies. The next level of horror is not physical, but psychological/emotional. What better than a rape to convey that?   What better way to convey a message that says "Now that you've seen it, please go out there and fight it."

#2, You put a rape scene in my video game, I break your face in two. Period.

Any shrink can explain?

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From

Yes, it's called illogical hypocracy.


Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From ...

This is kinda funny considering what i learned about the ratings process for the first movie

Effectively Wes Craven sent it in and it received an X rating (this is in '72 when the rating existed), Wes edited out 2 minutes of footage and resubmitted it, it still gets an X rating.  He edits it again taking out another 10 minutes, and submits it a third time still receiving an X rating.  finally he decides to put all the cut footage back in and resubmit it.  This time around a Friend of Wes'es pushes the movie through with an R rating

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From ...

That's pretty interesting.  The guys that do South Park did something similar when submitting Bigger, Longer, and Uncut.

Basically they would submit it and get a NC-17 rating for language and so forth.  So they went back, edited those scenes so they would become worse (The use of "rimjob" for example wasn't in the original script) and for some reason the MPAA was fine with the edits and gave it a R. 

 

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Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From ...

NC-17 isn't used anymore because it makes the film hard to sell. Same with the ESRB's ratings.

I'm afraid Amazon, by showing any sort of moral backbone, has opened itself up to much criticism when it doesn't start policing other products.

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From ...

Moral backbone in what way? It just removed one suddenly widely known product that gained some controversy while leaving other just as bad or potentially worse products cause they aren't causing the site any potential trouble.


Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From ...

Can I point out something that's been said about many games before.

If Rapelay is a Rape Simulator, it does it very badly. It would be like an Army combat simulator with extra lives. Most people who play this aren't going to go out and comit real rape, and a lot of the people who play it aren't interested in real life sexual violence. And before anyone questions it yes I know ALOT of people who've played it and look at other fictional animated rape materal. To even suggest it comes close to reality is more offensive to me then its' existance.

That being said the rape scenes in movies like last house on the left are a lot closer to "rape porn" and offer no more art then this game. But Art is subjective and we shouldn't judge something just because we don't like the content. I'm glad the reviewer pointed out his own misconception.

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From

I don't have a prepared comment for this one. The main difference is the interactivity of RapeLay. I can't have a thought out rant until I see this scene. But so far, this is what's on my mind.

I haven't seen the original version of the movie so I don't know how big of a role or how explict the rape sequence was or is now. My guess is that the rape in this version would probably be given steroids and be unneccessaringly graphic just to get sales and shock factor. Rape when used as a plot device/key event like in works like A Clockowork Orange, Pulp Fiction, and even primetime television is fine by my standards. Then you got people who are like "hur hur hur lets add a rape sequence to get shock factor and hide behind the first amednment when we're really not forwarding any medium or breaking new grounds." Like I sadi up there, I don't know how the remake will touch on this.

In terms of RapeLay, it's still on my shitlist. My opinion has changed ever since my original rant. All RapeLay was made to accomplish was to provide arousal for the rape fetisihist audience and didn't want to break any new grounds. It's complicated and I rather go back into my little world and ignore the fact that it exists.

I'm an attention whore. So visit my DevaintArt and feed my ego. Feed the whore. http://keaton2008.deviantart.com/

I'm an attention whore. So visit my DevaintArt and feed my ego. Feed the whore. http://keaton2008.deviantart.com/

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From

Rapelay gets a CERO rating of Z, which means "No children allowed whatsoever".

The Last House on the Left gets a MPAA rating of R, which means "No unsupervised children".

So Japan says "don't show rape to kids". America says "well, kids can see rape as long as adults are around".

That clinches it, we Americans have finally become more perverted than the Japanese.

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From ...

Context.

Rape is a horrible event for anyone to live through and it happens in real life all too often.

Movies, games and books are largely limited to using real life elements to convey stories. Should the rape scene in The Accused be compared to RapeLay? Should the rape panels in the Watchmen comic be held to the same standard?

Simply put, no.

I haven't seen The Last House on the Left, but being a Wes Craven movie, I can only assume it was horrifying. Was it less horrifying than tortures and murders in Hostel or the Saw series? Does it matter? It’s a horror movie.

It was a story telling device. You were supposed to feel horrified. Just as you were supposed to feel differently about Watchmen characters. If you felt disgusted, then it worked.

RapeLay does not strive to disgust or horrify its target market. It serves to titillate them. That is the difference.

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From ...

So basically what you're saying is anything is ok to convey a message, meaningless sex, rape, gore, as long as it's there to disgust you. But if it's there to turn you on it's nothing. Like the latex outfits some super heros wear. Or the naked chick in the shower that's been in every slasher flick since psycho.

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From ...

Right there. That right there. I agree 100%.

Reality/////////////////////////////////////Fantasy. Seems like a pretty thick line to me...

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From

Hounddog, Rated R

Death Wish 3, Rated R (previously rated X in 1985, see mpaa.org).

The Accused, Rated R

In fact, here is a page that lists a number of released movies that have rape scenes, to varying degrees in them:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080209183922AAAaIBP

 

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Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From

Why would you take kids to see this movie anyways Mr. Pat???


Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From ...

Double Standard between video games and movies?

Noooooo... oh can't be.

I mean - you got GTA that GLORIFIES VIOLENCE AND CRIME!!

There's no movie like that at all!!  Assuming you don't include: The Godfather, Goodfellas, Scarface, Natural Born Killers, Pulp Fiction.... I could seriously list like 40 more movies I bet probably even more.

There was an indie film... I forget the name.. was a good movie, I'll give it that..

But anyway - this Girl gets raped by some scumbag - the last like 30 minutes of the movie goes into a quite graphic scene of that guy - well, getting what he deserved I must say.

I can GUARANTEE you that movie was worse than that game - and it was on pay-per-view - free.

The double standard most certainly exists.

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From

I wonder if he's aware of the original, with the daughter outright being raped and disembowled, and the mother biting off the penis of one of the killers...

Reality/////////////////////////////////////Fantasy. Seems like a pretty thick line to me...

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From

Yes, he actually gave it 3 and 1/2 stars. One of the few horror films that he actually thought had merit. As much as I respect and like Roger Ebert as a critic, as a horror film fan and a video game fan, he doesn't seem to care for or "get" those two those very much.

"No law means no law" - Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black on the First Amendment

"No law means no law" - Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black on the First Amendment

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From

If "This Film Is Not Yet Rated" is to be believed, the MPAA rating system is just awful all around. It has no clear standards, no training for raters, and influence and money mean everything. If you don't like the rating you get (since NC-17 is basically a death sentence in terms of getting any kind of actual distribution) they have an appeals process, but you're not allowed to cite precedents. That an MPAA rating would turn out to be untrustworthy is not exactly surprising, considering.

But mostly, this whole thing seems to be more media hysteria. I mean, how many people actually bought RapeLay anyway? Did it even get into the double digits (before the news gave it such immense publicity I mean)?

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From ...

Last House on the Left = Not Pornography. Rapelay = pornography. That is the vital difference, the question is whether Amazon is "allowed" (public acceptance of the company selling such material) to sell other items of rape pornography.

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From ...

Rape is rape, all the same...

The GamePolitics' article is really more about a misinformed news writer who can't look up things for shit.

______________________________ Because I have NO Life... :P I introduce the following. PSN User ID: FirebirdXR (Yes, I use that moniker often) Xbox Live ID: FirebirdLR (Don't bother, It's a Silver Membership) *Limited Time Only* I put both because I

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From ...

You said rape twice.

 

Tea and cake or death! Tea and cake or death! Little Red Cook-book! Little Red Cook-book!

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Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From ...

Rape Vs. Ficticional Rape Vs. CGI animated Rape...

Choose your side.

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Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From ...

I choose Tentacle Rape.

--------------------------------------------------

I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From ...

I choose the Lust scene from Se7en. That's the stuff that nightmares are made of.

----------------------------------------------------

Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From ...

Yes it is and yes it does.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From ...

@State:

Amazon's got the best price on Hustler magazine. I can't tell you if it does or doesn't contain "rape pornography," though. I only buy it (and every month) for its well-written articles and skip over the photography.

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From ...

A lot of shawties say "No" just to save face. A playa gotta look beyond that, sometimes.

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From

Nice to see this double standard get called on.

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From

Didn't I point this out yesterday?  Glad to see I called it.

I'll be seeing this tomorrow along with Watchmen in IMAX.  I think it'll be good.  Better than the original at least, which I thought was poorly written, acted and filmed.  Then again, I also liked the remake of The Hills Have Eyes  more than I did the original (recommended if you're a Fallout 3 fan BTW.  And yes, that also had a pretty brutal rape scene as well.)  Hard to believe, but there are some remakes out there that are better than the orignals.

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From

I don't find the rape scenes in Hills Have Eyes (original or remake) or Watchmen brutal at all.  Maybe because none of them are actually raped.  Sexually assaulted?  Sure, but not actually raped.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From ...

"The film's rape scene has already aroused widespread critical outrage..."

To be honest, this is the first I've heard of any outrage over the new Last House rape scene.  I guess by "outrage" he means the reviews of the film that hit today, none of which I've yet read.

That said, I'm not surprised most reviews would focus on the rape scene.  Look at how many Watchmen reviewers focused on Dr. Manhattan's penis.

By the way, Ebert panned I Spit on Your Grave, a great film in my opinion, so I don't hold much stock in his feelings for the new Last House.

"I mean, what would it take for the clueless MPAA, which is supposed to serve concerned parents, not powerful studios, to ever draw the line and say to a filmmaker: "You've gone too far. We won't allow this much violence to be seen on screen."

Because that's not the MPAA's job and it disgusts me that you need someone to do that.  If you think the film is misrated, fine.  But if you want it to be NC-17 just so it won't be released, well I take serious issue with that.

Filmmakers can never go to far.  There is no line.  There is nothing fictional that should be banned from the silver screen.  If you don't like it, don't go.  If you don't want your kids to see it, don't take them.  If you don't want me to see it, tough rocks.

"If the MPAA is willing to give an R rating to "The Last House on the Left," which would allow me to take a bunch of kids to see this new film, then why shouldn't Amazon be allowed to sell Japan's RapeLay video game?"

Giving Last House an R rating also allows me to go see it.

Also, Amazon is allowed to sell Rapelay, it just chose not to.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From ...

I'm not so sure about that, Andrew. If Filmmakers can never go to far, then why don't we see more NC-17 movies? It's an actual question. Are more not made since they don't bring in the same number of people, or will movie theaters not carry them?

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From ...

@Andrew Eisen:

On your Watchmen take; I think its kinda hard not to take notice on the whole glowing penis propaganda. (Why has anyone not made a joke about this yet!?)

On everything else; Kudos!

By all honesty, do you really expect much from film critics and non-game based news media?

______________________________ Because I have NO Life... :P I introduce the following. PSN User ID: FirebirdXR (Yes, I use that moniker often) Xbox Live ID: FirebirdLR (Don't bother, It's a Silver Membership) *Limited Time Only* I put both because I

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From ...

(Why has anyone not made a joke about this yet!?)  honestly cause we are all still busy staring lol

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From

Karmas a bitch?

I supposed not much ado about it now..... *sigh*

______________________________ Because I have NO Life... :P I introduce the following. PSN User ID: FirebirdXR (Yes, I use that moniker often) Xbox Live ID: FirebirdLR (Don't bother, It's a Silver Membership) *Limited Time Only* I put both because I

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From

Nice to see him point out the double-standard that he himself was guilty of buying into.  Of course, most tasteful individuals will never wish to purchase or view either deplorable depictions of rape, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have artistic or entertainment value for somebody out there....

"You know what I wish? I wish all the scum of the Earth had one throat and I had my hands about it."

"You know what I wish? I wish all the scum of the Earth had one throat and I had my hands about it."

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From ...

It all has to do with how it's portrayed. Rapelay has the protagonist do the raping, as a justifiable revenge tactic. Last House shows the horror of a terrible sex act as protagonists are violently assaulted. That's not even including the whole "interactivity" issue.

But if it's about protagonists raping people, have we forgotten "Clockwork Orange"? 

 

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From ...

Yeah, that's the big difference there.  Rapelay has the main character raping other characters without (as far as I know) any real consequence.

"Last House on the Left" and "Clockwork Orange" have rape or implied rape scenes, but not by characters you're suppose to like.  Likewise those that committed the rape are punished for it at some point in the film.

I'm honestly surprised by Ebert's response.  Did he not watch "A Time to Kill"?  The rape scene in the opening of the film is one of the most disturbing things I've ever seen.  Yet I would never want it pulled from the movie.  It rises a powerful emotional response out of the veiwer, which is the entire point of these kind of scenes.

That's actually where the big difference lies.  Rapelay presents rape in a very casual, unthinking kind of way.  These films present rape as a plot device with the intent to get a rise out of the audience and to color other parts of the story, such as how "Clockwork Orange" presents the veiwer with the question "This man does horrible things, but is brainwashing him really the solution?" 

 

Tea and cake or death! Tea and cake or death! Little Red Cook-book! Little Red Cook-book!

Tea and cake or death! Tea and cake or death! Little Red Cook-book! Little Red Cook-book!

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From ...

So being murdered is a lack of consiquences?


Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From ...

Oh, that's right; I had forgotten TTK. Awesome film. You know, I think the rape scene was the only thing that got TTK an R. Could almost pass for PG otherwise.

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From ...

Give the amount of violence depicted throughout the film, like lighting the KKK leader on fire, I'd say more PG-13.  But yeah, I agree that the rape scene is probably what pushed it into R territory.

 

Tea and cake or death! Tea and cake or death! Little Red Cook-book! Little Red Cook-book!

Tea and cake or death! Tea and cake or death! Little Red Cook-book! Little Red Cook-book!

Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From ...

Well they didn't actually show the rape on screen for that movie, if I recall.  They showed all the brutal assault right before the actual rape, but not act itself.

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Re: L.A. Times: If Japanese Rape Game Was Banned From

I know it's not appropriate to say, but... PWNED!

 
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