Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

March 18, 2009 -

Over at Dissident Voice, blogger Martha Rosenberg writes that the recent spate of mass shootings has hurt the pro-gun political agenda.

More on point for the GamePolitics audience, however is the cartoon at left, which Martha drew to accompany her post.


Comments

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

lol? If we're so "hurt," then how did we just force the DOD to reverse their ban on surplus ammunition components? And why did half the Dems in the House just send a letter to AG Holder basically telling him to STFU about a new "assault weapon" ban? Rosenberg is a paid propagandist for the gun-prohibitionist lobby, and they're just upset that we're winning.

It also didn't help her credibility much when she claimed the Alabama shooter had a "cache" of an M16 and an AK-47. Seeing as he had neither.

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

If you recall, OBAMA put pressure on them to impose said ban on selling surplus shells to companies for reloading. 

As for those Dems in the house telling Holder to STFU, good for them, because if he kept talking no one was ever going to come together for jack shit.

And yeah, Rosenberg's article is dripping with anti-gun bias.  She just wants to incite fear, and nothing scares the average American like an Ak-47. She's just a liar, just like JT, manipulating facts to push her agenda.

What's really fun those is to read the comments on her page.  I especially like where  they call guns a corporate-profit driven manipulation.  Some of these people live with their heads up their ass I swear.  Also, I went to Colt Manufacturing's plant, and it didn't strike me as very corporate.  You had skilled craftsmen doing jobs they enjoyed and that were very rewarding.

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

Yea, the 'omg eeevil corporations' thing always makes me laugh. Unless you really like making and shooting guns, it's probably not a good industry to be in because the profit margins are quite small. Military and LEO sales bring home most of the bacon, but that mainly just works because of the  volume. Even then, a lot of the major players there are retired military and police who want their guys to have the best stuff. Although, I suppose civilian sector profits are rather decent right now thanks to the administration rattling their sabers about a new AWB. This might be Obama's most successful economic stimulus to date. :p

And who else outside of the game industry (namely Valve, Epic, and Blizzard) spends as much time hanging out on forums like arfcom or whatever getting feedback from and helping customers?

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

Hello,

Just want to clarify here that the Virginia Tech student had a psychotic illness that was the primary reason he committed the crimes he did.  The fact that he had Selective Mutism is not related to his behavior on that day.  An anxiety disorder (such as Selective Mutism) does not lead a person to become violent, whereas a psychotic disorder (such as schizophrenia) in SOME cases can increase the person's risk for violence.  Also I'd like to request that people please consider terms such as "nut job" when talking about people who have mental illness.  I am sure that the VA Tech student would rather not have inherited a psychotic illness that likely felt like torture to him throughout his life, and would rather not have believed the paranoid beliefs that ultimately led him to kill others.  And next time you meet a child who has Selective Mutism, see how wonderful you think that child is before you make judgments and spread misinformation.  Thanks for reading and considering my input.

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

Well despite what my signatire says I do not blame guns for when people are shot. I blame the people who pull the trigger. However I do believe that many people in the U.S. (I won't speak for Europe because IDK their gun laws well) do not possess the mental or emotional maturity to own one. Many of these folks I would not trust with a water pistol. I do oppose guns but I believe if they were to be banned that little would change. The bad people would still get them and we'd be right back where we started. Also just as its unfair for gamers to pay for the sins of a few, its wrong law biding gun owners have to pay for these idiots' crimes. But somehow this country has to stop making it so easy to obtain one. As I said I do n ot blame the guns as they are inanimate objects. However I feel even if the BS with games training ppl to kill were true, I wager many of these killers wouldn't have the balls to go through with their crimes. True we still have knives and other weapons but nothing says instan kill with little risk to oneself like a firearm. But my signature just states my outrage on how everyone wants to address games when IMO the ease of firearm access is the real culprit for most of these crimes.

 

 

For those who oppose and view video games as murder simulators...When are you going to FINALLY oppose and view firearms as murder weapons?!?!

"With free speech either all of it is ok or none of it is." Kyle Broflovski

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

Actually, our current system is great.  Just because Cho Seung Hui managed to get through it due to malpractice from the Judge and Pysch ward he was at does not make a system that stops felons from legally getting guns every day a 'bad system'.

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

I'm pretty sure the Brittish shouldn't be weighing in on American gun laws since the countries stances on Gun control are totally different. Not to say that a country defines someones belief but most people in that area of the UK seem to be against guns (enjoy your knifings) and America was founded in part with the idea of having guns to protect yourself.

Also I don't like guns but don't oppose peoples right to have them. I think there should be some kinda leveling system if you want bigger and better guns, but I don't think it should be mandatory psych screening for Guns. That's an invasion of privacy and psychology isn't the god end all to knowing things about people.

 

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

but most people in that area of the UK seem to be against guns (enjoy your knifings)

Our Knife crime rate is also much lower per capita than in the US

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

Please define "better" or "bigger" for that matter.

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

The big difference with blaming guns versus blaming media products is that the gun, itself, is the tool used to do harm.  Of course, that's not to say that less guns will ensure less violence any more than less violent media will ensure less violence.

The fact is, if someone wants to do someone else harm, they'll find a way and a reason.  And they'll find something that will push their buttons because, if they are bad enough off to reach the point of doing someone harm, ANYTHING will do the trick, no matter how innocent it is.

On the subject of background checking, definitely necessary, but at the same time, understand that it isn't foolproof.  Remember the NIU shooter?  There was no reason from anyone's perspective to deny him a weapon.  What harm had he done in the past?  Yes, he was in a group home at one time.  Should that be on his record?  He was praised by many over the last few years.  Many didn't know he had any mental illness.  Maybe the system needs upgrading/updating. 

On the issue of privacy Rights, yes, both sides of the argument are valid.  On the one hand, there should be no reason to hide such information as what drugs (legal or illegal) you've taken, mental status, criminal records, and so on.  Want to know what's on my criminal record?  Nothing except a single bad check problem that was never served because the issue was resolved, and that's over a 30 year period.  And I have no problems taking drug tests anytime, anywhere.  BUT, there are individuals in authority, and some not in authority, who will abuse the opportunity to demand record and drug tests over and over.  And then "Oh My God!  Look at all those record/drug checks!  They may have come back clean, but who knows what's REALLY going on since he's checked so often!  He must be a HORRIBLE person after all!".  You know good and well there will be people who will do that.

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

Holy crap! Look out! I play violent games AND have a gun! I'm gonna go shoot people because the game made me do it!

The only time I will ever have a problem with a gun is when the guy robbing me has one at my head and I don't have one that I could have used first.

As for the correlation to both, guns don't kill people anymore than violent games do. What if instead of a gun -- people used hammers? They'd be thinking that hammers were evil. Yeah, it's a silly thought, but it is true.

If someone doesn't want a gun, good, they don't have to buy it. As long as they don't try to take mine away, I don't really care too much either.

Praetorian

"I've been told I'm the resident skeptic, but I wouldn't believe that."

http://www.myspace.com/pree_tawr_ee_uhn



Praetorian

"If you sit by the river long enough, you will see the body of your enemy floating by."

http://www.myspace.com/pree_tawr_ee_uhn

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

That's a false analogy (assuming you mean the common, everyday hammer and not a war hammer). Handguns are designed for the sole purpose of killing people. Hammers have other purposes. When used the way they're meant to be used, handguns put bullets into people. When used the way they're meant to be used, hammers put nails into wood and stuff. Handguns are not for hunting so that doesn't even into it.

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

Seeing as Praetorian said "guns" not "handguns", I'd say it's still a fair analogy.

-Gray17

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

"Handguns are designed for the sole purpose of killing people."

This is just anti-gun rhetoric.  My answer is, "So, what?"  Handguns are still simple inanimate objects.  The decision to kill is made by the human actor, every single time a handgun is fired, legal or not.  The lethality of the weapon is not an indicator of criminality or immorality - only actions are.

~~All Knowledge is Worth Having~~

~~All Knowledge is Worth Having~~

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

It may be false, but I think it still applies. Look at video games. The're useful for other things, but people still look at them like they're all out there to train killers. People will overlook things to see what they want to see in something, be it a handgun or a hammer.

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

What if instead of a gun -- people used hammers? They'd be thinking that hammers were evil. Yeah, it's a silly thought, but it is true.

Not all that silly considering that that's one of the things that people used to use:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_hammer

-Gray17

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

To answer the comic: I'd rather be out hunting with my father than at home playing some video games. I've never been hunting. I really enjoy going to the range and shooting a bow or a handgun or small stuff, but my dad never has time to take me, let alone take me hunting with him.

Family hunting encourages teamwork and strengthens relationships. The same can be said of any team activity, it strengthens bonds. Without even reading the posted article, I can tell that she is some sort of idiot that thinks "zomg guns r teh evels!" without talking about the root of the problem (which is crazy people).

But whatever, I enjoy having guns in my house for protection, and some people don't like having guns in their house. As long as it isn't affecting me, I don't give a damn.

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

I’m not familiar with gun laws in the US or Canada, for that matter, (I’m Canadian but I don’t own any guns) but the way I see it is if you want to own a gun, by law, you should be required to undergo psychological evaluations and drug tests every few years. And if you’re found depressed, schizophrenic... whatever... or you have problems with alcohol or drugs then you should automatically loose your right to have weapons. Doesn’t it make sense to keep the weapons out of the hands of crazies and addicts? Just my opinion.

 

"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

Please do not use the word "right" in your statement. What you are referring to is a privilege.

 

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

Gun ownership is a right granted by the Second Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

I do not know the law in Canada.

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

I know what the constitution implies. I was refering to his implication of a right being something the government can take away.

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

The government can take away your rights.  In the case of doing something illegal, the government can detain you and send you to prison.  Moreover, the government has the power to deny people any and all rights they want, as long as they get it passed legally.  The government can say that people no longer have the right to free speech as afforded by the First Amendment so long as they repeal it or replace it. 

They can, and have, also put restrictions on rights.  I point you to the Assualt Rifle ban by Clinton in the early 90s or the fact that you can't yell "fire!" in a crowded room.  Rights have also been suspended for periods of time, as well as giving the government descretion as to if they want to restrict certain rights.  For proof of this, I need only point out the Patriot Act, which an absolutely horrible name considering what it gives the government the power to do.

I don't really know why I'm pointing this out, other than the simple fact that I am insanely anal about certain things.  Oh well, what're you gonna do?

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

If you were extremely anal, then you wouldn't have called it the "assualt rifle ban".

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

IN the US, when you get a firearm, your background is checked for drug and alcohol addiction and arrests related to them, as well as for any felony or violent misdemeanors. 

As for pyschological evaluations, why should I have to undergo 'evaluations' when I've never committed a crime?  Criminals don't have to come back and be evaluated, so its moronic that I should have to be.

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

Why do I think people should have to under psychological evaluations to buy weapons? To ensure they're competent/sane enough to have weapons without being a danger to themselves or others.  
 
Seung-Hui Cho (Virginia Tech massacre) was diagnosed with a severe form of an anxiety disorder known as selective mutism in middle school, as well as depression. Should people like that be legally able to buy and own guns?
"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

He legally wasn't, but because the judge and pyschologist decided not to send that information to the FBI, he wasn't disqualified.  And the reason they didn't send that information to the FBI is because they feared it would make it impossible for him to go to a college.

EDIT

To clarify, he legally was NOT able to purchase a firearm.  

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

Which is why it's not a bad idea to have manditory evaluations taken before the purchase.

"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

I used to think that a mandatory psychological evaluation would have been a good idea for a gun purchase, but have changed my mind. It is an invasion of privacy.

A psychological evaluation should only be performed when there is a valid flag raised by a person's actions. Wanting to buy a gun is not a flag raising action. Millions of perfectly sane people buy guns. Millions of sane people use guns. So why should that be a flag requiring one to take such an evaluation?

I do think that a person must pass a gun safety course before being allowed to buy a gun, but that should be a one time thing and once passed they should be free to buy whatever and how many guns they want.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

I tend to agree with JB...

one of my problems with the idea of only waiting for a flag is that people with mental illness may not exhibit much behavior that would raise flags... i mean they can go through life not commiting crimes or doing anything that strongly calls to attention their mental condition... Look at a lot of the shootings that happen; the people who know those who commited the act are often surprised that they did so but if we put them under a microscope we can see possible issues. The thing is, for quite a few people the first flag that's ever seen is when they do something that gets them or someone else serious hurt or even killed... the early warning signs can be to subtle for regular people to identify them as having some serious problems deep down.

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

I see taking a psychological evaluation as important as having to take safety courses. And I also don’t see it being any more of an invasion of privacy than an athlete having to submit to drug testing. That's the best comparison I can come with at the moment.
 
I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.
"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

Wanting to buy a gun is not abnormal behavior. Someone must be exhibiting abnormal behavior in order for a psych exam to be mandated.

Until you can give me good reason that would make wanting to buy a gun abnormal behavior, I stand by my post.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

I'm not saying wanting to buy a gun is abnormal behaviour at all. I never said that.

What I'm saying is there needs to be a way to prevent a person with untreated/unknown psychological disorders (ie: severe clinical depression, schizophrenia, sever anxiety, bipolar disorder, or what ever) from purchasing or owning guns.
 
If you don’t agree with a psych. evaluation then do you know of some other way?
"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

But you did say that the act of wanting a gun should be grounds to be put under a psychological evaluation. That is essentially saying that if you want a gun you must be crazy.

That is why I advocate for mandatory gun safety courses. If someone can't pass that, they have no need of a gun as their own stupidity will be enough to kill themselves later.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

But you did say that the act of wanting a gun should be grounds to be put under a psychological evaluation.” Yes, I did. To ensure a gun isn’t sold to someone with an untreated/undiagnosed mental disorder.
 
That is essentially saying that if you want a gun you must be crazy.” I honestly don’t understand how you’re coming to this. 
 
 
 
All I can do is basically copy and paste what I’ve been saying:
There needs to be a way to prevent a person with untreated/unknown psychological disorders from purchasing or owning guns. I don’t know of any other way to do this other than a psych. evaluation.
 
That’s my argument in its simplest form. I don’t know what else I can say…
"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

So I take it you don't realize that there's a distinction between an untreated/undiagnosed mental illness, and an untreated/undiagnosed mental illness that makes you a danger to yourself or others?

-Gray17

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

I am referring to those who are a danger to themselves and others.

"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

Perhaps I am overanalyzing your comments.

But I do feel that you are stepping into the same justifications used when attempting to legislate and regulate games.

Just because a handful of nutjobs go nuts and use a gun to kill people after playing games, does not mean that every person who plays games or owns guns are nutjobs or even potential nutjobs.

You also come across saying that someone with a untreated or undiagnosed mental illness will be pushed over the edge by owning a gun. It may not be what you are actually saying, but the tone of what you are saying comes across that way.

There is no valid justification for mandating psych exams for gun ownership.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

I don’t know if you’re still reading this…
 
"Just because a handful of nutjobs go nuts and use a gun to kill people after playing games, does not mean that every person who plays games or owns guns are nutjobs or even potential nutjobs."
 - I agree with you.
 
"You also come across saying that someone with a untreated or undiagnosed mental illness will be pushed over the edge by owning a gun. It may not be what you are actually saying, but the tone of what you are saying comes across that way."
 -  I’m not saying that. They may have already been pushed over the edge or maybe they never will be pushed. That’s the thing with mentally unstable people… anything can set them off. But, being untreated and undiagnosed, they may be much much more dangerous then the average person and letting them legally buy weapons seems... crazy.
 
"There is no valid justification for mandating psych exams for gun ownership."
 - I have to ask: Do you think an undiagnosed mentally unstable person (who’s a danger to himself and others) should be allowed to purchase weapons legally? If not, how would you prevent such a person from buying weapons?
"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

Thank God, the law and most supreme courts disagree with your whole 'psychological evaluation' idea.  What a tremendous waste of time and money that would be.  It's even more idiotic than Illinois' laws on the subject. 

You get a psychological evaluation when you merit one.  Talking to walls?  Eval.  Acting like a retard in front of judges, sending pornography to people, stalking and harassing people? Eval.  Buying a gun?  No eval.

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

What a completely unbiased article.  Seriously, I think it's great that Miss Rosenberg can sit on her high horse and judge people for hunting.  Really.  God what a dumb bimbo.

I don't know what groups she's talking about that are less perceptive to pro-gun stances now, but I was at a criminology conference last week in Boston attended by the best criminological minds in America talking about school shootings, and I can tell you that the facts are clear; Concealed Carry on Campus is a great and widely accepted idea.  It's just not a politically accepted idea.  But that's fine, we can wait while we get to sit through 'Stimulus, the REMIX!' and Obama's team pretending he didn't know about AIG's bonuses that had to be paid. As of writing this, I know of nine states working on legislation that would allow concealed carry on (public college) campuses, as well as many others that are still talking about it.  Public schools in Utah and Colorado have been doing this as well, letting the same responsible law-abiding citizens who

Also, @ZERODASH:

Are you serious?  Do you own a gun?  One of the questions on the form that you have to fill out says 'have you been adjudicated (judged, basically, by a court or court's expert) mentally defective?'.  Of course, the answer you give doesn't even fucking matter, what really matters is if NICS says you have been.  And if some groups would stop bitching about it being an 'invasion of privacy', there'd be no problem at all.

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

Strangely enough, it's usually the groups who complain about the invasion of privacy that also complain when some whackjob shoots at them with a gun they shouldn't own.

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

I always thought the ultimate irony was that what helped to get him into college was what should have prevented him from owning a firearm.  A rational and less idiotic judge or pyschologist would have filed the paperwork and let his parents sue the college if rejected for mental problems.  But no, they let it slide, and it came back to bite the community on the ass.

Really, REALLY macabre irony.

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

Blaming guns for crazy people doing crazy things is almost as absurd as blaming games.  Just like games, guns do not have some magical energy field that turns normal people into killers.

The real trick is keeping guns/games/media away from crazy people...just imagine the logistics of even implementing such a thing. 

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

 At least here, you can SHOOT THAT DOG!

lol. Seriously, though, they've got a point. The people in this cartoon are clearly hunting, and it's implied that they're doing it legally. It's just showing how the NRA and 2nd Amendment supports can be hypocrites at times. 

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

So you think violence against animals is comparable to violence against humans?  If this is so, why haven't we rounded up those horrible people at KFC that keep slaughtering them chickens?

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

I predict a long and dull flamewar now.

Shall we just say we have done it and move on with our day?

-- Add a marker to the start of your signature.

--
A house is not a home unless it contains food and fire for the mind as well as the body. Benjamin Franklin

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

...wut? How will Zerodash's post start a flame war?

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"A Chrono Trigger is anything that unleashes its will or desire to change history!" -Gaspar

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

Well me pointing out that if people didn't have such easy access to guns then the likes of Columbine and V-tech, which AFAIK  were done with legally purchased guns (though the columbine kids guns weren't specificly theirs), would have not of happened may not help. lol

Then some urban areas of the UK do still have gun problems too, but I hate to think what it might be like if guns were still legal here.

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

Then some urban areas of the UK do still have gun problems too, but I hate to think what it might be like if guns were still legal here.

Less knife violence perhaps?

-Gray17

Re: Cartoon Considers Games & Guns

Heh, perhaps, but I doubt that if any of the school shooters had been stabbers instead that they would have taken as many lives, if any at all.

About the guns at Columbine and V-tech. I thought that the Columbine guns were owned by one of the kids parents. My mistake. As for V-tech, I  wonder what was done to fix the system to stop it happening again.

 
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