Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: Overkill

March 19, 2009 -

An Australian parents' group is protesting the MA15+ rating assigned to Wii zombie shooter House of the Dead: Overkill.

As reported by the Melbourne Herald-Sun, Pro Family Perspective director Angela Conway is leading the charge against HOTD:O. The game recently set a Guinness Book record for profanity. Said Conway:

The gaming industry has been mischievously misrepresenting the classification system on this issue. I feel very distressed that a large number of teenagers and adults would play this game and soak up this amount of sexually aggressive violence and aggressively violent language.

We need to draw a deep breath and look at the research, which will show a need to scale back this level of violence.

 

Given the increasing amount of knowledge now available of the effects of exposure to intense levels of violence on the adolescent brain, we should be reviewing the level of violence the MA15+ classification now allows.

Conway also called for additional research into the impact of violent games on players. Last year, Conway claimed that violent games would turn troubled kids into "lethal killers."

Sega spokesman Vispi Bhopti defended HOTD:O, however:

House of the Dead: Overkill has been rated as suitable for people over 15. It is not an R-rated game. The swearing in it is very much stylised so it matches the Grindhouse cinema style made famous by director Quentin Tarantino.

In playing the game, players attack zombies or humanoid characters but never humans. This is an important distinction that the classification board makes when it gives a rating.


Comments

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: Overkill

Could you provide proof on the fact that kids can be harmed but adult can't? I'm not calling you out, I just want to see if there are any studies which prove that.

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: Overkill

Again, go to a schoolyard and remain standing there for 10 minutes. If you don´t get shoot, then you got your answer.

The cynical side of videogames (spanish only): http://thelostlevel.blogspot.com/ My DeviantArt Page (aka DeviantCensorship): http://www.darkknightstrikes.deviantart.com/

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: Overkill

I never said an adult can't be harmed, but an adult can be held responsible for his own actions.  And adult has had the time and possibilities to become educated in what is right and what is wrong. While a minor is seens as helpless and coddled.

I don't know how old you are, Sage, but I remember my Saturday morning cartoons and shows revolving around the likes of ReBoot, Power Rangers (original), and Transformers. Was there violence in these shows? Shows tailored specifically for kids? Yes there was, but it was there to teach a few lessons here and there.

Grand Theft Auto: The Lost and Damned is an interesting story.  For someone like me, it is interesting to see a take on Johnny's culture, what he's going through and the frustrations that he has to deal with day-in and day-out.  Johnny's not a bad guy if you actually go through the story, he's just dealing with bad situations.

The problem is that I see a lot of people deciding to make their decisions on what is harmful and what is not harmful based on black-and-white assumptions.  "Violence of this kind is always harmful." "Violence of that kind is not."  Each individual would interpret an action their own way.  A few comics I've read held a story of a junior high-school student who was required to write a letter to whalers in an effort to show them that "they are wrong". However the student instead wrote according to his curiosity. What did whale taste like, how did they do it, and so on.  What is wrong with having a different opinion there?  Without knowing everything regarding the subject, people try and make decisions that impact everyone else.

---- There is a limit for both politicians against video games, and video games against politicians. http://www.goteamretard.com

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: Overkill

"I never said an adult can't be harmed, but an adult can be held responsible for his own actions."

So you agree that adults can be harmed. So at a point you have the same view as me, but I believe the government should stop the adult BEFORE he can become responsible for endangering others.

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: ...

Wow nice idea a police state.

How about we lock up criminals 'before' they commit crimes too, y'know just to be safe. Forget the whole innocent until proven guilty thing.

In fact.. car owners.. lets ban cars and lock up car owners because they COULD use the car in a hit and run, or as a getaway, or to aid in MANY other crimes.

Lets tell the government it would also be ok to ban al kitchen utensils.

IN fact.. PERFECT EXAMPLE.

kitchen utensils.

over 97% of people are gamers.

only a FRACTION (0.0000000000000000001%) are killers.

over 97% of people use kitchen utensils.

only a FRACTION (0.0000000000000000001%) are killers. (using kitchen knives etc)

 

so.. why should they ban one and not the other?

wow.. you cant answer.. thats because your a hypocrite.

 

 

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: ...

They use junk science all the time for these defenses. Trying to form a link between a relatively uncommon activity (murder) with an activity that goes on in many people's homes ever day (gaming).

GameSnooper

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: ...

Reguardless of what the law states, most people who enter court are looked at guilty until proven innocent.
 

Praetorian

"I've been told I'm the resident skeptic, but I wouldn't believe that."

http://www.myspace.com/pree_tawr_ee_uhn



Praetorian

"If you sit by the river long enough, you will see the body of your enemy floating by."

http://www.myspace.com/pree_tawr_ee_uhn

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: Overkill

However, by stopping unstable adults, you end up stopping sane taxpayers. Just because someone can drive drunk doesn't mean the bar, or the alcohol industry ought to be fined. We put the blame on the individual, as that is what is illegal.

The point is, there are far more stable people in the world than unstable people. For us to take a protective stance against peoplethat don't know any better, or don't care is one step closer to THX1138.  People need to be able to live their lives, work at their jobs, and enjoy their hobbies.

I mean, owning a firearm and taking it to a range can do just the same if not moreso than a game, wouldn't you say? You actually have the firearm in your hands, you are actually firing it, you are actually feeling the recoil, and you are actually seeing the results (on paper).

-----------

Judging from no response on my other previous points, I'll assume you agree with them.

---- There is a limit for both politicians against video games, and video games against politicians. http://www.goteamretard.com

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: Overkill

You don't seem to understand that even ONE death is not acceptable. Do you think that someone should be able to take YOUR life just because sane taxpayers should be able to do something?

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: ...

Insane people can be set off by anything

There was a woman who drowned her kids because she thought a spider was a message from God. (Can't find the link but I think someone here has it).

Speaking of which a lot more people have killed others because of being insanely religious (and probably other factors) then some random gamers have. In fact some of the more extreme ones are a national security threat.

If one death is unacceptable should we then ban religion?

My answer is a concrete no (and I'm not religious).

It's unfair to those who don't plan on killing others, it's an infringement on freedoms I think we should have, and it won't guarantee an unstable individual will be set off to kill.

----------------------------------------------------

Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: ...

In fact, just look at history and just how many THOUSANDS more have died due to religious wars than have died from being killed by someone who can be causally proven to have 'trained' on a video game.

So sage you want to ban religion?

If not.. why not? Because you are entitled to freedom of expression?.. wow.. pot... kettle.

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: ...

one death isnt acceptable?

you think one death is justification to ban something?

well thats crazy logic.

we would have to ban near EVERYTHING if one death was a justification. Cars, clothes, kitchen utensils, bricks, wood, shoes, alcohol, medicine, headache pills, shellfish, dairy products.

And the funny thing is, those things have PROVEN CAUSAL links. Yet you dont think we should ban those... but games, with a hotly debated, largely ridiculed politically motivated link (that is a corellation at best) you think we should? Despite there not being ONE case where a game has been CAUSALLY linked to someones death?

 

wow..

 

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: ...

Live turtles! Stories tell of a Greek mathematician or philosopher who died when a turtle (most likely that fell out of the talons of a bird of prey) landed on his head.

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: ...

f*cking hell!

We must warn the populace!!

THE TURTLES ARE COMING!! THE TURTLES ARE COMING!! TO ARMS!!

Only a mass extermination of all birds , turtles , and any as yet undiscovered bird/turtle hybrids can save us...

 

ugh... but what do we kill them with.. we banned everything except these giant cotton wool suits... DAMMIT.

 

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: ...

uhg *COUGH* HELP

CHokin.... *on* ... *cotton wool fibres... UGH *COUGH..

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: Overkill

Death happens, it's regrettable, and it's unacceptable at the hands of other people. But, as a citizen of the United States, I myself take the measures required to protect myself.  Defense training with firearms, I intend to get a CCW (Concealed Carry Permit) as soon as I am able, and yes, I even intend to carry it.

We can't protect everyone. Society is based on a set of agreements, but like any agreements, we can't expect everyone to follow them 100% of the time.  I may sound cold and heartless but the world is not a safe place, and never has been.

A police state itself is what scares the hell out of me. It's why I won't go to Europe. It's why I won't agree with Scientology.  Free will and choices are what allow people to be people, rather than a single entity.  Culture, ideas, and so on are important to shift around through not only books or movies, but through games as well.

You have yet to respond to my comments about books, and movies, so I will assume that you are fine with those just the same. Why is it that books and movies are just fine? What about a book with the same kind of content? Would that be appropriate? Even more interesting is that text is almost universally free online these days.

---- There is a limit for both politicians against video games, and video games against politicians. http://www.goteamretard.com

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: Overkill

By your reasoning, the following things should be banned because they can be used to cause "even one death", and thus they are unacceptable:

Scissors, cars, tools, pens, piano wire, cholesterol, morphine, chairs, 2x4's.. <list truncated, but could go on to include just about anything>

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: Overkill

"So you all believe that violent video games do not cause any harm, but then also believe children should be restricted from playing these games by the government?"

Fixed your post.

Also, there's a difference between 'causing harm' and 'inappropriate'.

It wouldn't cause any real harm if someone showed up to a workplace naked, but it is inappropriate and therefore not allowed.

There is a difference between what is appropriate for a child, and what is appropriate for an adult.  Thus the age ratings.

However, there are people who want violent games banned regardless of what age they are recommended for.  Instead, a parent should decide, with the information that is freely available to them, what their children can and can't play.  Not the government.

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: Overkill

No. Believing that banning games is gonna solve violence problems is the real hypocrital and coward and lazy statement.

The cynical side of videogames (spanish only): http://thelostlevel.blogspot.com/ My DeviantArt Page (aka DeviantCensorship): http://www.darkknightstrikes.deviantart.com/

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: ...

Just because something isn't appropriate for children does not mean that it is harmful.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: ...

Guys.

 

Look at his username. "Sage"

We're being trolled.

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: ...

Thank you, Captain Obvious. That has already been established.

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"A Chrono Trigger is anything that unleashes its will or desire to change history!" -Gaspar

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: ...

"In playing the game, players attack zombies or humanoid characters but never humans."

Well, truth be told you can shoot the humans but you get penalized for it.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: Overkill

"Can't you all see the effect these high levels of violence are doing to yourselves"

cant you see what high levels of hate mongering are doing to you?. if you want to fight some real scum of the earth take your hate speach to lawyers or something most of them are vultures.

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: ...

"turn troubled kids into "lethal killers.""

as opposed to non-lethal killers?  :P

------------------------------------

I am a signature virus, please copy and paste me into your signature to help me propagate.

------------------------------------ I am a signature virus, please copy and paste me into your signature to help me propagate.

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: ...

Uh, maybe...Ah, maybe by killing them, they don't "die" but rather, turn undead. That could be consider as a non-lethal killing maybe?

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: ...

But according to the pic in the link below, people die if they get killed.

 

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/1511/peoplepx0.jpg

IMA FIRIN MAH LASER!!!

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: ...

"The gaming industry has been mischievously misrepresenting the classification system on this issue."

Maybe her quote was taken out of context but the MA15+ was not assigned by the video game industry.

And, as many before me have said, if only Australia had an MA18+ rating.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: Overkill

"Hoorah" to Sega for defending themselves!  Seems like most publishers never respond.

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: Overkill

To those claiming that house of the dead, farcry, or any other first person shooter can 'teach' a person how to effectively use a weapon, and turn people into 'trained killers', I have a couple of points for you to consider:

- 'Knowledge' does not equal 'action'.  There are millions of people who know how to build explosives, break your arm, shoot you in the head from 100 yards, etc etc.  Just because they 'know' something does not mean that they 'do' it.

- First person shooters do not confer real world shooting skill.  I know how to shoot a rifle and a pistol.  I have also played a number of FPS on the WII, Xbox and PC.  I can tell you from experience that shooting a gun in a game did not give me any more skill with a weapon that I did not already have.  As has been mentioned before, anyone who knows that the use of a gun can hurt someone, already knows that A) You need to point the weapon at the person you are shooting, B) That you need to pull the trigger to fire the bullet, and C) The bullet will hit what you are aiming at.  It only takes just a tiny bit more knowledge for a person to aim at, say, the head (which people also claim is a skill derived from video games.)  Common knowledge: The brain is a vital organ.  Also common knowledge: A person cannot live without a vital organ.  Logical deduction: Without the brain, a person will die.  Do you really think that a killer needs a video game to teach them this?  And if so, how did murders ever happen before video games?  Would the shooter in Germany (or V-Tech, or Columbine, or anywhere else) have hit fewer people if he had not played video games?

- Other mediums give just as much 'training' as video gameswww.google.com - "How to shoot a pistol" or "How to reload a pistol".  Shooting ranges.  You tube.  Innumerable internet sites and books.  Why are video games singled out?  A game controller, even the Wii zapper, is not a realistic enough simulation to be any more of a training tool than someone holding a gun shapped stick.  Or playing laser tag.  Or paintball.  In fact, I'd argue that these last two things provide far more 'realistic' training than any video game.

-Fantasy does not equal reality.  From the time I was young, I have been able to tell the difference between the reality of life and the fantasy of video games/movies/tv.  I am a rational person free of any mental defects or diseases, and raised by rational/responsible parents.  And as such I know that there is a world of difference between shooting a simulated person in a video game, and shooting a real person with a real weapon.  There is a very definite, wide line between the two for me and a huge majority of video game players.  If a person cannot tell the difference between killing someone in a game, and killing them in real life, then they have a mental disorder that needs to be addressed.  It is not the video game's fault.  Just like it was not the gun manufacturer's fault that a murder was committed with their product.  And if you disagree with that statement, present your counter argument.  And then replace the word 'gun' in that statement with the word 'bat', 'knife', 'car', 'hammer', 'crowbar', 'scissors' and 'rope', and apply the same arguments to each new statement.  If your argument does not fit with those changes, your argument fails.

- Violent hobbies do not cause violent behavior.  Of -course- violent video games/movies/books were found in killer's homes.  People enjoy what they enjoy.  But to say that the violent media caused the violent behavior is a logical fallacy.  A naturally violent person is going to enjoy violent media, and will bring it into their home.  And that's not even true 100% of the time (how many violent offenders have had no violent media in their homes?)  Even if it were true 100% of the time (all violent offenders had violent media) does not mean the reverse is true.  Quiet people may naturally enjoy quiet music.  The quiet music does not -make- the person quiet, nor does it mean that the person -will- be a quiet type.  An artist may have paints in their home, but so might a person with no painting skill.  The objects in a home, even if related to the crime, do not cause the crime.

- 'Knowledge' does not equal 'action'.  I am repeating this one because it is the most important.  Even if we argue about how much real world skill a video game can teach a person, it is a simple fact that just because someone knows how to do something does not mean that they will do it.  Knowledge of how to take a life does not put into someone the desire to take a life.

This 'evidence' touted by these anti violent video game groups use flawed methodology and come to unjustified conclusions.  Or the groups simply ignore the study's overall findings and focus on one small part taken out of context.  There has been no scientifically sound study that proves that violent media causes violent behavior.

Video games have been around for years.  Shooting games have been around for years.  Video games with simulated guns have been around for years.  Millions, even billions of people have been exposed to these things on a regular basis.  These people do not turn into murders simply because of exposure to these things.  They do not turn into more skilled weapon users simply because of exposure to these things.

Are we advocating exposure of minors to overly violent material?  No.  We are simply points out the flaws in these arguments.  And pointing out that it is a parent's right and responsibility, morally and legally, to be involved in their kid's life and to monitor what their kid is doing.

Remember folks, correlation does not equal causation.  Now if you'll excuse me, I need to load up 'Duck Hunt' and practice for my bird hunting trip.

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: ...

 

Also,

Law of physics and real life application does not apply to video game-I notice most of the video game does not follow the law of physics.  Halo's sniping I notice does not give you the same recoil (anybody knows Newton's third law) as the real sniper rifle does, a high power sniper rifle can knock you off balance if you don't handle the rifle properly. Also the bullets goes in a straight path, bullets does not do that good in real life.  Even in real life, when you have a bad guy in your scope, you could still miss because gravity, obstacle, or sudden movement can alter the bullet's path.  Do most video game developers wants to make the game so almost realistic that it should follow all of physic's law?  I do not think so.  Also if you play Mirror's Edge, you can't jump across the building because gravity can come into play, also let's not forget about mass and weight.  You tried that, you'll fall and die (the only difference is that you don't get a "try again" menu when you die)  No way you can leap like in Super Marios Bros game

I like to point these out also:

-ever play LA machineguns at the arcade and other rail-shooting games.  LA Machineguns have 1 flaws, rapid fire machineguns gets hot when you shoot for a long time.  That's why you see people shooting machineguns in short bursts in real life unlike just fire constantly with no pause like in a video game.  Also, taking down a missiles and rockets with a machineguns is just impossible, they're just so fast and they also have a hard skin, bullets can't penetrate those in real life and missiles/rockets are just so fast by the time you aim the machineguns at them, you're dead (in real life).  That's why we have anti-missile rockets like you see those in military videos, the armed forces knows that machineguns are not capable of taking down a rockets, they know video game ain't real life simulators.

-FPS and 3rd person shooters, Ok we see how guns shoot and how to reload them.  Does video game teach you how to turn off the safety on that gun?? Does video game teach you how to unjam your gun (America's Army is the only exception)??  Does video game teach you what kind of bullet does your gun need? You can just put a AK-47 bullet into a shotgun or a 9mm bullets in a .357 revolvers.  Those would not work or misfire killing you (a great 1000 ways to die).  Does video game teach you how to do a tactical cover (like Gears of War, Uncharted, Wanted: weapon of fate)properly?? Here's the problem with taking cover, you won't be able to see what the enemy is doing in real life, anything can change within seconds,minutes.  The enemy could have outflank you if you're taking cover.  Did you know a grenade can blow up after 10 seconds the pin is pulled (anybody watch Manswers on Spike TV??)?  Don't even think about blind-fire.  you'll just be wasting bullets at no one instead of your enemies in the battlefield.  So if you're taking cover and a grenade is near your feet, kiss your ass goodbye.  That's why in armed force, they always tell you not to take cover for too long, anything can change in a battlefield.

That's the flaws with video game and real life.                

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: Overkill

Well stated.

I like your ending sarcasm as well

"Volume helps to get a point across but sharp teeth are better."

"Volume helps to get a point across but sharp teeth are better."

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: Overkill

A large number of kids and adults?  Now they're gonna find some excuse to say that violent games aren't suitable for mature adults.

The government.  Protecting your brain against your will, for your own good and the children.

 

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"We received 20 calls last night. As we all know, one call equals a billion people. So 20 billion people called us last night. We must act to preserve decency on television." -The FCC

"This is not the difficult thing, gentlemen, to escape death, but it is far more difficult to escape evil, for it runs faster than death." -Socrates

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: Overkill

So sage do you want games to be banned from adults or are you ok with an adult rating????

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: Overkill

Look Sage the reason it's obvious you're a troll is because you're spouting common anti-gaming rhetoric and jumping to wild conclusions that just because a kid who went on a rampage killed people and played games that games automatically had something to do with it. If you do really believe these things I feel sorry for you, if you think total isolation from violent meterial would stop people from killing each other you're totally wrong.

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: Overkill

Okay, some things Jack says are a little extreme. But generally we share the same ideals. And also, i'm not a politician, a lawyer, and I don't have an agenda. I'm simply a guy who wants everyone to be safe and you insult and patronize me for it. Just to note this, you all seem to be more aggresive then I would have assumed. Can't you all see the effect these high levels of violence are doing to yourselves?

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: Overkill

 copy and paste from above since it's more appropraite

I feel i should apologize for how some people might treat you. A lot of us has a lot of past experience with Jack Thompson coming to these boards... he has always been totally uncivil and was not open to discussion; really he did little more than just post his press releases, letters to people involved in a case, and just outright insult us; he's quite undeserving of anykind of kindness... might not sound like him to someone who knows him personally, but from what i noticed about his conduct in front of a camera is that the persona he shows off publically is NOT the same as the one he shows here on the net or against people more privately... Not to mention how he treats the opponents in his cases (part of why he ended up being disbarred)... He's even gone so far as threaten us with legal actiont... Frankly, it's given some of us a bit of a knee jerk negative reaction to those that share some of his view points... so much experience to his blind view of things can sometimes make us forget that some critics can be much more resonable and thus should not be treated the same.

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: Overkill

I sincerely apologize for the animosity, but quite frankly, it's the fault of the anti game crusaders.

TO put it another way, if you get punch a person in the face a few times, you have no right to act all shocked when they punch you back.

When you've been insulted, blittled, condemned, had your rights threatened, and even had death wished upon you, al lbecause soemone doesn't like soemthign about you, be it a hobby, sexuality, religion, whatever, then you tend to get defensive.

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: ...

My anger and my outrage at how often we the gamming industry are attacked, can only be heard here. My voice just like others are in unison to fight for whats right. SO help me god as long as I live I will contiinue to support this cause because its the right thing to do. 

Now answear me this sage, if you had children, would you want them playing GTA? I wouldn't not untill they're at least 17 or mature enough to show responiblity. 

Its that easy, we don't need any of this goverment laws, or these watch dog groups telling us what to do. We have the tools right here in front of us. JUst use them its all you have to do.

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: ...

That too.

We only speak out of aggression as, well ,we get attacked so much, almost always without cause or reason

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: Overkill

Don´t start to back-pedal now. If you can´t defend your arguments, stop writting BS.

The cynical side of videogames (spanish only): http://thelostlevel.blogspot.com/ My DeviantArt Page (aka DeviantCensorship): http://www.darkknightstrikes.deviantart.com/

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: ...

You have an agenda and want everyone to be safe? THAN listen to us and stop ignoring some points we make. When you attack us, we are going to defend ourselves, and prove our point. Come peacefully, and we shall listen and discuss. But by now the damage has been done, so there you go, another one added to the people that are no better than Jack Thompson.

 

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: ...

Come on now at least he is being civil with his posts, Jack could never achieve that. Some of the things he says seem so biased though that they seem plain ridiculous and unbelievable.

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: ...

Even in spite of his uncivil manner, he was still pretty funny.

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"A Chrono Trigger is anything that unleashes its will or desire to change history!" -Gaspar

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: Overkill

Sage:

Go to a random school yard or some campus and wait for 10 minutes. If you get killed by a crazy gamer, well, I guess Jack was right.

The cynical side of videogames (spanish only): http://thelostlevel.blogspot.com/ My DeviantArt Page (aka DeviantCensorship): http://www.darkknightstrikes.deviantart.com/

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: Overkill

Um, i'm not Jack. But i'm a "loose" friend of his. And we pretty much share the same ideals, but please don't be misinformed. And yes there is evidence, but I don't keep copies of evidence around to show people, that's Jacks thing. I'm a little more laid back them him when it comes to this stuff.

uh, Sage maybe I should show you something

 

Let me ask you this, Sage.  What made serial killers like Jack The Ripper, Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dalhmers, Dennis Rader (the BTK killer), Gary Ridgeway (Green River Killer), and David Berkowitz (Son of Sam) killed people.  They didn't need video game to get it.  Nope, they either had psychological problem or they were born a sociopath.  

God. there were school shooting even before violent video game were invented.  Look at these event:

Bath Massacre, 1927-Andrew Kehoe killed his wife, blew up Bath Elementary School (along with 44 students) and killed himself.  what video game did he play? Bioshock? Mercenaries 2? Farcry 2?  Nope none of these, he had financial debt (video game did not even exist back then, how can video game made this guy blow up school and killed many kids).  Conclusion: Blame it on the money, as a matter of fact ban money, they are the root of greed and evil. You know what I blame money for everything, even the financial Crisis.  Ban it, and we will live more happily after.

Poe Elementary School attack, Sept 1959-Paul Harold Ogernon was the perpertraitor of this shooting which end up killing 6 people including himself. He was a ex-convict who couldn't get his son enrolled into that elementary school, and he went 'Postal' on the school.  Video game was not behind this. Conclusion: The guy is a ex-convict, what do you expect??

Cleveland Elementary School schooting, Jan 1979-Brenda Ann Spencer, 16 years old shot up the school for no reason which ended up with 2 dead, 6 injured.  What FPS game did she play? Oh wait a minute, FPS games wasn't invented until the 1990's hence she can't be "trained" on video game.  But however, her motive and quote "I hate Mondays".  Conclusion: The Monday is to be blame.

Portland, Connecticut, Dec 1985-13-year old student Floyd Warmsley shot and killed a janitor, injured the principal, as well as a school secretary and held a student hostage with a rifle at Portland Junior High School after he had been suspended for refusing to take off his hat while in school. He was arrested after his father convinced him to surrender. (from Wikipedia)  So what video game made him do it?  Conclusion: the hat was tainted with pure evil and made him shoot up the school.

Montana, Dec 1986-14 year old Kristopher Hans, angry over a failing grade, shoots and kills a substitute teacher for a French classroom, and then later wounded a vice principal and two students.  Conclusion: I blame the grading system, it can drive a person over the edge.

 

There you go, if video game create school shooting, how come there were school shooting even exist before First Person Shooter/violent video game were invented.  Got any explanation, Sage???

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: Overkill

I feel i should apologize for how some people might treat you. A lot of us has a lot of past experience with Jack Thompson coming to these boards... he has always been totally uncivil and was not open to discussion; really he did little more than just post his press releases, letters to people involved in a case, and just outright insult us; he's quite undeserving of anykind of kindness... might not sound like him to someone who knows him personally, but from what i noticed about his conduct in front of a camera is that the persona he shows off publically is NOT the same as the one he shows here on the net or against people more privately... Not to mention how he treats the opponents in his cases (part of why he ended up being disbarred)... He's even gone so far as threaten us with legal actiont... Frankly, it's given some of us a bit of a knee jerk negative reaction to those that share some of his view points... so much experience to his blind view of things can sometimes make us forget that some critics can be much more resonable and thus should not be treated the same

Now, onto why i say you are wrong

The only "evidence" i can ever think of would be the studies Jack likes to cite; which are unlike the ones he likes to convinently ignore and just claim the researcher is somehow a shrill of the game industry since he seems to believe there is a massive conspiracy... HOWEVER it has been pointed out numerous times that those studies are in some ways inaccurate or do not say what he likes to think they say...

Earlier this week we had a researcher who looked at the studies and pointed this very thing out and came to the conclusion that the idea that "studies show violent games lead to violence" is really just politically motivated. The is also the study coming out of the UK which essentially says that based on all the previous studies we really don't know how violent games effect people; the studies are either flawed or are far from conclusive

Often times the studies are correlation studies and as any researcher can tell you there is a big difference between causation and correlation

Another thing is that anti-game critics like to exagerate the results of the results of the studies. Take Bushman's latest study... in it he notes that after experience violent media a person reacts 26% slower to helping another person... that sounds serious; that is until you realize that 26% is actually less then 2 seconds. Hell some of those studies claim a higher level of aggression because the subjects pushed a button milli-seconds faster than another person. 

When it came time to try and pass game legislation, which has passed but failed (in court) about 10 times in this country, these studies were brought up as reason to legislate games... but legislating speech  requires strong evidence and the courts have always tossed out the legislation saying that these studies were not nearly enough and there is a reason they do so.

And the final thing i'd throw out is that "games are interactive and therefore more influential" is an unproven myth... in fact i recall a study by the BBC that actually showed some signs that the opposite might be true in that the interactivity of games may cause a detatchment to the game and thus make them less immersive than movies... grant it, it was not the primary focus of the study so it is not conclusive but it is enough to put the whole issue into question

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: Overkill

Sooo, where was that evidence when he needed it? AS in, i nevery trial he got hismelf involved in and his own disbarment trial.

He doesn't even have the evidence. And if he does he never let's anyone see it as it is bunk. Pure bunk, or fabricated/tampered with.

Re: Australian Watchdog Group Slams House of the Dead: Overkill

Wait, when did jack ever show us such "evidence"?

 
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Andrew EisenMP - I love that games but damn my squadmates are bozos.09/21/2014 - 10:05pm
MaskedPixelanteSWAT teams should be banned until they; 1. Learn not to walk into enemy fire, 2. Learn to throw the flashbang INTO the doorway, not the frame and 3. Stop complaining that I'm in their way.09/21/2014 - 9:53pm
Craig R.I'm getting of the opinion that SWAT teams nationwide should be banned. This probably isn't even the most absurd situation in which they've been used.09/21/2014 - 9:26pm
Andrew EisenAnd, predictably, it encouraged more parody accounts, having the exact opposite effect than what was intended.09/21/2014 - 7:07pm
E. Zachary KnightThis is called a police state people. When public officials can send SWAT raids after anyone for any offense, we are no longer free.09/21/2014 - 6:41pm
E. Zachary KnightJudge rules SWAT raid tageting parody Twitter account was justified. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/19/illinois-judge-swat-raid-parody-twitter-peoria-mayor09/21/2014 - 6:41pm
MechaTama31quik: But even if it did break, at worst it is only as bad as the powder. Even that is assuming that it is dangerous through skin contact, which is not a given if its delivery vehicle is a syringe.09/21/2014 - 4:30pm
MaskedPixelantehttp://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/09/20/isis-uses-gta-5-in-new-teen-recruitment-video/09/21/2014 - 4:25pm
quiknkoldSyringes can break. And in a transcontinental delivery, the glass could've broken when crushed. I work in a mail center. Shit like this is super serious09/21/2014 - 3:25pm
E. Zachary KnightIt doesn't matter what is inside the needle. As long as it requires him to take the step of purposefully injecting himself, the threat of the substance is as close to zero as you can get.09/21/2014 - 1:27pm
quiknkoldEzach: I'm not talking about the needle. I'm talking about what's inside. Geeze. Depending on what it is, the sender could be guilty of bioterrorism.09/21/2014 - 12:51pm
E. Zachary Knightquiknkold, No. That syringe is not worse than white powder or a bomb. The syringe requires the recipient to actually inject themselves. Not true for other mail threats.09/21/2014 - 12:49pm
Andrew EisenThe closest to a threat I ever received was a handwritten note slipped under my door that read "I KNOW it was you." Still no idea what that was about. I think the author must have got the wrong apartment.09/21/2014 - 12:28pm
InfophileThat's what they call it? I always called it hydroxic acid...09/21/2014 - 11:57am
MaskedPixelanteProbably dihydrogen monoxide, the most dangerous substance in the universe.09/21/2014 - 10:14am
james_fudgewell I hope he called the police so they can let us all know.09/21/2014 - 9:07am
quiknkoldIt's pretty gnarly. Depending on what it is, it could be worse than white powder or a fake bomb.09/21/2014 - 9:06am
james_fudgeI just looked it up on UPS.com09/21/2014 - 8:56am
james_fudgeand expensive for an American to ship to London.09/21/2014 - 8:55am
E. Zachary KnightThat is pretty scary. Would have been worse if it were a fake bomb or white powder.09/21/2014 - 8:49am
 

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