GP Poll: Do Video Games Need to Grow Up?

Journalist Heather Chaplin called out the video game industry at the Game Developers Conference on Friday.

Was she right?

Register your opinion by voting in our exclusive GamePolitics poll and then use our comments feature to expand on your thoughts…

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  1. 0
    shihku7 says:

    I voted "not sure" because "grow up" is just too broad.

    I want less senseless and "isn’t blood awesome?!" type of violence in games, but I don’t want games to gain a reputation of being loaded with political messages or what not.

  2. 0
    Kharne says:

    Oh! Thanks for touching on that. how do you judge gameplay depth vs. story depth?

    Take a look at nethack: no real story worth mentioning, but the mechanics behind it, yikes!

    Or how about rollercoaster tycoon? Or railroad tycoon, or hell, most sims in general, again no story, but the gameplay can be quite detailed.

    Also, on a side note? with all this talk of highbrow art. Am I the only one who wants to see a big name game like Halo or GTA, only with all the dialoge redone in Iambic Pentameter? Just to be silly.

  3. 0
    Wormdundee says:

     Y’know, people talk about how GTAIV has ‘consequence’ and ‘responsibility’. While true to a certain extent, there’s a lot more that could be done with this.

    Why not have the entire game revolve around that theme? An ending to a videogame that I would like to play would involve the player character being locked up in a max security prison for life. No, there would not be an escape sequence, he would not kill the guards and go out in a blaze of glory. That would be the end. A fade to black on somebody who made a lot of mistakes in their life.

    Of course, I have no idea of the story that would lead up to that point, but I’m sure somebody could come up with something good.

  4. 0
    State says:

    Of course games need to grow up, just about every game out there is about a "Chosen one" who must save the Earth etc. Very few games actually look at human emotion, the games many people here consider to be "art" (even though she didn’t talk about art, just maturity) show how little gamers know about drama. Mass Effect (whilst an excellent game) is a typical sci-fi shooter, it does have its moments of characterisation (but these a few are far between) and the ability to have sex does not make it a mature title. Ico and Shadow of Colossus can both be considered art (they are beautiful games), but mature? No and tend to have the bog-standard plot of a game.

    Fahrenheit has been the closest at being a mature title, focusing on characters and emotions (yet was let down with the ending, once again going into stereotypical "chosen one" story mode).

    Bioshock played around with the idea of what it means to be a game (but it still had stereotypical story game elements in it).

    GTA4, a game many think to be dumb (shows how much gamers know about film genres and such) had a lot of satire and critiques on American culture. Compare this to Saints Row 2 (one of the most childish games around, swearing and crudeness does not make one mature) and you can see that Rockstar are trying to do something more with a game than other game makers.


    But still games lag way behind film and TV with actually dealing with mature films. Games have a power like no other medium to really explore humanity and to really get into a person’s head, due to their interactive nature. This so far have never really been explored in games. Gamers will no doubt say that they don’t want maturity in games, but it’s not a though mature games will be the only games available, TV and film balance the serious with the stupid, why not games too?

  5. 0
    JustChris says:

    Telling video game to "grow up" in the way it is described here is like telling sci-fi movie producers to stop putting exploding spaceships in their movies and make the scripts more like sci-fi books. I don’t really read sci-fi but sci-fi plots in books seem to be more niche than sci-fi plots in movies. If we go by the books and make softer sci-fi that doesn’t rely on special effects, sad but true, they’ll become even less acceptable by the mainstream if you do that. People still DO want to see exploding spaceships, or robots beating the crap out of each other. Or at least expect to. There are still a few movies in many genres that can nail a suspenseful plot right without relying on a lot of violence.

    The people that want more intelligent plots will look for them on their own and won’t always follow the box office charts. Same for video games. There’s a lot of clever stuff out there, but it fails to make a splash same way. Big misses that more people should’ve heard about are stuff like Beyond Good & Evil and Psychonauts.

    The thing is, video games, being displayed as VIDEO, lean more towards fast-paced action. That’s why people prefer to be a magic-spewing wizard, a space marine spraying bullets or a hulking Greek warrior confronting destructive gods. This goes back to the movies and books comparison. Movies are typically going to rely more on visual effects to stimulate your senses (on the other hand I’m curious to know what the content of Halo books is like).

    Most of these games may have ham-fisted stories but I consider the gamer’s experience to be the real story. Stories about how you narrowly missed that life-killing attack on your last health pack, how you pwned the noobz with your overpowered skills, or how you cut corners to break that speedrun record. These stories are exchanged among gamers and make conversation fodder. With movies, conversation pieces are limited to the plot and the actors around them. With video games every experience is different and can produce seemingly endless stories to tell.



  6. 0
    Austin_Lewis says:

    I think of all the entertainment industries, video games need to grow up less than most.  Look at movies; there’s not a lot of movies with real artistic value these days.  And no one bitches about that; even though we keep having Judd Apatow-directed movies come out, movies with so little plot and mostly long strings of drug and sex jokes, no one complains.  Never mind that the few ‘outstanding’ movies often smack of groomed for oscar bullshit (once again, Slumdog Millionaire, which is a shitty movie that was made just so the director could get an oscar out of it).  There are no more movies like we used to see, things that really were groundbreaking, be it Monty Python or History of the world Part I for comedy, Apocalypse Now or Black Hawk Down or Saving Private Ryan for war movies, what have you, we don’t really set the bar very high in movies anymore.  Music’s even worse; I swear to God, I turn on the radio and I can’t tell the difference between what’s on the rock stations most of the time.  I stopped listening to ‘alternative’, once the genre defined by groups like Nirvana, now filled with cookie-cutter crap.  Look at books these days; when’s the last time a really good book made it to the top 20?  Hell, I went into Barnes and Nobles the other day and half the books on their suggested reading rack were Barack Obama puff pieces, that’s really artistic and High-brow, to be sure. 

    Then we have video games, constantly pushing boundaries everywhere.  Sure, we have some studios that release crap like Eat Lead, but then we have games like Portal, Left 4 Dead, Legend of Zelda, Final Fantasy, Condemned (one of the creepiest games I have ever played), Bioshock, Half Life 2, Team Fortress, the list just keeps going!  What about Dead Space, a great horror game?  What about Mass Effect, a great sci-fi story?

    But no, Video Games obviously need to grow up.  Yeah, what the fuck ever.  I think the average American needs to grow up; when we have 80% literacy, I’ll agree its time for media to grow up.

  7. 0
    Quindo says:

    I voted yes.


    Is someone asked me if movies and books need to grow up i would also say yes.


    yes, books need to grow up.  Tons of perfectly family friendly books have been ruined because of 1 paragragh that contains sexual content.  Usally it can be taken out without any change in the story.  But the fact that it is there makes me not trust the authors for any of their other books.


    — Currently doing a research project on the short-short term effects SWBF:2 has on peoples abilities to focus.

  8. 0
    gamadaya says:

    But are games like Gears and Halo inherently worse than games like Beyond Good and Evil? Sure, they don’t put as much attention into the story and themes, but does it matter in this case? Are they any less deep? I don’t think so. I think the developers just chose to focus more on game mechanics, and leave the storytelling to more capable story tellers.


    Believe in something! Even if it’s wrong, believe in it! -Glenn Beck

  9. 0
    black manta says:

    I voted no.  As I said in the prvious thread, while I like my Mortal Kombat, GTA, Gears of War, God of War, Doom and what have you, I also appreciate more substantial games as well, and they’re out there.  I don’t think games need to "grow up" or at least be held to a certain timetable that they do right now.  They should be allowed rather to evolve at their own pace, which I think they’re doing.  Maybe not in the way Ms. Chaplin would like, but they’re doing it.

  10. 0
    mdo7 says:


    I put not sure.  But the journalists who said video game industry needs to grow up.  They already did over the generations.  Video game had a lot of limitations and restriction long time ago.  Now look at today video game, the industry had evolved (grown up) since the 1970’s.  I’ve seen how video game evolved:

    1972-Magnavox Odyssey became the first video game console ever.  Most video game before 1972 you have to play them at the arcade.

    1980-even though before Xbox Live, PSN Network, or SEGA channel.  There was early online gaming, but not as great as now.  This is evolution.

    1979-before DS and PSP, there was the Microvision from Milton Bradley (even though, we should credit Mattel Auto Race which was created in 1978).  Without those we wouldn’t have DS, PSP, or Iphone today.

    1991 and 1992-Sega Mega CD or Sega CD was the first console to use CD as another format.  SEGA CD was able to play not games from CD but also Audio CDs (The Playstation wasn’t the first).

    Intresting fact: Did you know the Playstation would have been a Nintendo Product not Sony, if these 2 haven’t broke relationship.  If they didn’t, then the Playstation 3 and the Wii would have been combined forming a powerful video game  console.

    2000-Playstation 2 became the first console to play back DVD movies.

    2001-Xbox became the first console to have a internal HDD and you can store music in there.  It also had a perfect online services.

    2006-Playstation 3 became the first console to use Blu-Ray disc, and using a program called Folding@home.

    2005-Xbox 360 became the first console where you can download movies, TV shows.


    This is how video game grown up and evolved.  It’ll evolve more and more in the future.


  11. 0
    Werrick says:

    I’d like to vote yes and no, it’s a shame I couldn’t.

    I don’t think games like Gears of War should go away or change, but I also don’t think they should be held up as the paragon of gaming and what it represents. There’s room for both what Chaplin’s talking about as well as the inane stuff.

  12. 0
    Conejo says:

    no. why? because no other medium needs to "grow up."

    there are plenty of "power fantasy" books and movies, but they’re okay?

    storytelling is storytelling.  sometimes the story is stupid, sometimes it’s great.  we don’t yell at children’s book authors or people making Die Hard 67, so it’s a little hypocritical to bitch about games.

    Here are we — and yonder yawns the universe.

  13. 0
    Obi says:

    I said "no," but I freely admit there is room to grow.  Just not in the way a forty-year-old man needs to grow up and move out of his mother’s basement.  There are games trying new things and tackling deeper topics, they just get a bit overshadowed by some of the games that… well, don’t.  It takes time, and it also takes people accepting different games.  Honestly, some people can afford to make whatever they want, but companies have to make games that will sell too.  Otherwise they go bankrupt, and that would seriously suck. 

  14. 0
    Grifter_tm says:

    I voted a partial yes. I already wrote my piece on the other article, but just to summarize:

    [The other mediums (TV, music, literature, and film) are a heck of a lot older than video games, so the point she’s trying to raise is moot. There is sexism in the world of entertainment, but trying to fault video games as the most immature is quite wrong.

    Truth is, we haven’t found a way to translate "responsibility, introspection, intimacy, and intellectual discovery" into video games. I don’t see how this could be possible in the near future, and the closest thing I probably have ever seen this happen is in one of the old school RPGs, namely Fallout 1 and 2 and Baldur’s Gate 2.

    Games function on the realm of fantasy, and any life lesson that you want to transmit to your player will get lost as soon as he/she stops playing. Getting a game to have the concepts she mentioned above is going to take a lot of effort, and a heck of a lot more time.]

  15. 0
    insanejedi says:

    I dunno why everyone brings up those three games as something "immature" shure it’s easy to see Gears as some bloodfest, but there are some messages about the War in Iraq, human resource consuption, and so on. GTA is the strangest of those that I see come up because out of every game in the entire library of video games, GTA 4 stands out as a game with so many messages about Americian life and the Americian Dream. The moral choices are more powerful than any other game I have encountered next to KOTOR 2, because what they are saying is "there is no "good" choice or "bad" choice, it’s a crappy situation and whatever you choose will be a crappy outcome, who dies is up to you."

  16. 0
    SpiralGray says:

    While I enjoy games like Gears, Halo, and GTA, they really are just more of the same.

    Games like Mass Effect, that have action but also tell a compelling, intricate story, are more mature, and the industry needs more of those if they really want to be taken seriously.

  17. 0
    jsutcliffe says:

    I don’t understand the question, or at least why it’s being asked. I play grown-up videogames, and I play childish videogames. Similarly, I watch grown-up and childish TV and movies, read grown-up and childish books.

    Why single games out? This is like all the nonsense about trying to make comic books "literature" in the public eye. It’s a useless exercise, and quite needless.

  18. 0
    insanejedi says:

    I think they do, but the thing is, is everyone is trying to do so at the same time. Look at every mainstream game today, Halo, Metal Gear, Resident Evil, Modern Warfare, even Gears of War. If you look closely, all those games have some mature theme or message to them. Halo is just a modern reinterpertation of Noah’s ark, Metal Gear has tons of messages spanning from genetics, nuclear proliferation, and war economy, Resident Evil has themes of colonialism, African explotation, and darwinism, Modern Warfare has themes of pro-war and anti-war agenda’s as well as facism. And Gears of War has themes of resource consuption and Iraq War comparasons.

    The thing is, is there are some games that get it right like Metal Gear, Halo, and Modern Warfare, yet there is a bunch of games that try to get their message and fail at it miserably by either being too subtle or being too preachy, for example Haze, Too Human, Gears of War (particularly 1), and Resident Evil 5.

    Games just need to display these messages better to succed becoming an important medium of art.

  19. 0
    sirdarkat says:

     I don’t feel gaming is any less grown up then say Hollywood Films.  We have our artsy games are they main stream not always but most movies that are considered artsy are far from main stream (and most just like hollywood movies rarely have a large following).  We have our mindless blow them up games (Summer Box Offices if you will), we have our indepth stories (most RPGs and Adventure games, your Chirstmas Love Story with a twist if you will), in fact the one area we probably lack on is porn (excluding Japan due to their censorship laws they actually have tons of porn games). 

    So I am not entirely sure what she is getting at, maybe she only plays console games and noticed they only typically produce linear rpgs and blow em ups frankly that is why I play more PC games than console but even that line is starting to blur as consoles have become more powerful and developers are taking advantage of the system.


  20. 0
    DavCube says:

    Hell no.

    The video gaming world has already grown up a hell of a lot, especially in the last few years. What more do we really need?

    If anything, it needs a little regression. Today, it seems to be all about "How much power i have" and "How many games i have where i can shoot things." Don’t get me wrong, shooting things is good. But not if it’s almost being used as the template for ANY game that the mindless masses will even pay attention to. That’s why i applaud the remake and compilation efforts going on right now. Mega Man 9, Final Fantasy 3 and 4, Dragon Quest 4-6, Sonic’s Ultimate Genesis Collection, and so on. More of those games need to be made, and more of the franchises people loved need a true revival. (Star Fox, Zelda: NOT Spirit Tracks)

    *Spirit Tracks does look awesome though.

  21. 0
    Wolfemann says:

    I voted no, but I’d like to make a caveat.

    Games don’t need to grow up.  The market does… and so do the critics.  And this is true for 99% of all media, as well.

    As it stands, games have about the same sort of ‘hit ratio’ that movies do, if not better.  Of *course* Gears and the like aren’t deep games – as others have said before, they’re like summer blockbusters.  Sure-fire feel-goods meant to prop up the bottom line and enable deeper projects meant for your ‘Oscar bait’ releases.

    Unfortunately, as it stands, it’s not just the market and the designers who need to grow up.  The critics bring up Gears of War… but those aren’t the games they *really* go after.  Any time a game attempts to bring in something a little bit deeper/more out of the ordinary, they pounce on it.  Positive (or even neutral) portrayals of homosexuality in games, anyone?

    Ultimately, everybody needs to grow up a bit more, in respect to the games.  I, for one, would *love* to see more subjects addressed, and the games put more effort into making people think… but until that sells, and until you can get away with it without the Thompsons of the world jumping on your head and trying to snap it off, it’s not going to happen.

    Politics, Religion, and Particle Physics

  22. 0
    Malygris says:

    While we’re at it, let’s tell the movie, music and television industries to grow up too. It seems to me that’s the sort of demand that can be spread around pretty easily.


  23. 0
    vellocet says:

    I voted yes as well.  But perhaps it’s not the industry that needs to grow up as much as the audience does.  The reason why people keep making metal clad bikini wearing valkerie and futuristic techno soldier games is because games with realistic heros and deep themes don’t sell.  Those are the ones that get all the development budgets.

  24. 0
    wintermute says:

    Ugh.  Gaming needs to "grow up" just as much as the rest of the entertainment industry.  Big shoot’em up action games are just as popular as big shoot’em up action movies, they’re entertaining and help take a load off your mind for a few hours, instead of requiring days of intense thought and introspection afterwards on top of whatever problems are already weighing you down.  Scantily clad women in games?  They’re all over in movies, on TV, and even on album covers.  I don’t see why games should be singled out here when you have people like Michael Bay and Nickleback making the same kind of material in their respective mediums.

    I like introspective and artful entertainment just as much as everyone else, I’d love to see a gaming equivalent to The Seven Samurai (I hate Citizen Kane, FYI), but I don’t want to have to go into deep thought about the human condition every time I fire up my Xbox 360.  Mindless fun can often be more relaxing.

  25. 0
    nightwng2000 says:

    I said yes, but I believe it needs to be a mix.  While I like serious games from time to time, I also like the less serious games as well.  Whether they are the "childish", less PC games, the parodies, or even the outright immature "adult" games.

    The fact is, she’s busy playing her stereotype card and not looking at the idea of "if you have an idea that hasn’t been tried, make it yourself.  Don’t bitch and whine that someone hasn’t done it fore you."  Games, like any other media, is diverse in genre, style, gameplay, and many other differences.

    I mean, what does she want?  Interactive romance novels?  Rest assured, someone will scream "PORN!".

    As to straight forward dramas, it isn’t as easy with today’s tech.  Point and click are usually how these turn out.  Try making a Law & Order, ER, or Days Of Our Lives RPG (which is usually where stories are the most developed).



    NW2K Software

    Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as

  26. 0
    Neeneko says:

    I think the person has points, but is a poor spokespeep for the issue.  Her talk sounded too much like she wants to be doing something with more prestige so she can chat people up at dinner parties…. so she really was not thinking about what is good for the industry and more what is good for her career and social status.

  27. 0
    ZippyDSMlee says:

    I voted yes becuse the indutry admits its abilty with word(story) sucks not to mention production issues that jsut make it all the more immature and un refined…


    Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.

  28. 0
    Michael Chandra says:

    People really should take the time to read the article GP linked to in the GP article GP linked to, which contains both quotes from what she said and a response from someone else. Which, considering the questions and responses some people throw around, not everyone did.

  29. 0
    Michael Chandra says:

    I also read some articles before that one, which gave views into the way sexuality tends to be presented in games, and with that base to both her and my opinion, I have to agree with here. The adolescent way of treating many subjects, especially women, is fun but at least some games should go beyond that. The whole thing about a penis visible in GTA? Should have been completely irrelevant. Then why did it matter? Because games are still seen as a juventile medium for kids by many. This image needs to be changed, and the games themselves can help push it.



    And seriously, did you guys even BOTHER to read what she said before crying No and talking nonsense about what apparently she said and meant?

  30. 0
    gamadaya says:

    No. God no. Not every game needs to be so damn serious. If you don’t like the generic shooter types, then don’t fucking play them. Don’t complain because not every single game fits your specific tastes.


    Believe in something! Even if it’s wrong, believe in it! -Glenn Beck

  31. 0
    Count_Zero says:

    I’d say yes they do – however, I don’t think the comparison to film is a valid one. Early film borrowed a lot from theater, in terms of staging, and in terms of stories. A lot of Fritz Lang’s stuff (particularly "M") and the work of other directors expanded on that by going "What if I put the camera here?" "Rather then telling this piece of information through dialog, I’ll do a shot of a newspaper headline." "Rather than having the score tell us who the villain is, I’ll have him whistle a piece of music and let the audience figure it out – they’re not stupid." Etc.

    However, we needed to first work from that foundation in theatre. Video Games, on the other hand, basically came about from scratch – they weren’t necessarily working from the foundation of either Role-Playing Games or Board games, until much later. And as far as power fantasies are concerned, while they don’t need to go away entirely, ultimately, game designers have to balance creating a deep and meaningful story, with a game that’s fun to play, and, ideally, one that people will want to play over and over again. Additionally, thanks to the efforts of Jack Thompson and various legislators, it’s difficult to actually tell a deeper, mature story without running into problems of, basically, the Moral Minority/Majority complaining about a game being made that’s not for kids.

    I think the majority of the games that fit her critera that have been made have been horror games – because you have a main character who is not empowered (or even depowered) there and have an audience who will approach the game and will go along with it, and because anymore horror has become a not-for-kids genre, so mature themes can be explored without offending people (see the Silent Hill series). The other genre that comes to mind that addresses these themes is Role-Playing Games, as there you’ve got a 40+ hour long game, so you have plenty of time to address those themes in the game, either directly, or in a roundabout fashion to they can get crap past the radar.

    Hopefully that was semi-coherant, as I’m writing this right after I wrote up, and before I’ve had coffee.

    EDIT: Oh, and if any game designer were able to appropriately fit bawdy humor of the same level and quality as Shakespeare’s into a game, and any politicians found out about it – there would be congressional inquiries again.

  32. 0
    shihku7 says:

    Sports are often seen as the realm of intellectually lazy people though. Barbarians, thugs, grunts, what have you. There are many news stories of the American public viewing athletes as somewhat socially retarded or bizarre too, violent animals, etc. See the OJ Simpson and Kobe Bryant situations, amongst others. I wouldn’t be surprised if this Chaplin lady believed many sports fans were in need of "growing up" too. 


  33. 0
    Timbo says:

    Why is that almost every response saying "No, video games don’t need to grow up" state that movies and books need to ‘grow up’?

    Am I the only one that realizes that the state of movies and books is irrelevant to the state of games and whether or not they should become mature?

    "Shit people, wake up and realize video games are for FUN! FUN FUN FUN!!!!!!!!!!  The minute any of these political jackasses spew their crap about how bad kids having FUN is, that’s when you know it’s bullshit.  

    It amazes me that society says it’s ok to want to participate in a sport where the objective is to cause the most physical damage to the opposing team and it’s also ok to watch and idolize everyday people sell out their lives and their family lives for 15 minutes of fame!!!!!

    So to anyone that voted "Yes" and plays video games and actually enjoy their time playing the games and have FUN while playing, I respectfully say "FUCK YOU YOU FUCKING HYPOCRITE!!""

    I don’t see how I am a hypocrite for thinking that most games have the narrative depth of Transformers and that it would be good for it to change (which is not to say that Tranformers is bad, just that the story has as much depth as a Saturday morning cartoon for children).

    Also, condemning people for doing actions that they view as fun, while saying that no one should condmend games because they are just "FUN! FUN FUN FUN!!!!!!!!!!" is the definition of hypocrisy.  Most people playing sports or performing in reality TV are doing it for fun.

  34. 0
    robotco says:

    quite frankly, her comments are absolute bullshit.

    define "grow up". define "responsibility, introspection, intimacy, and intellectual discovery".

    just because the majority of video games don’t correspond with her limited view of what it means to be "adult" doesn’t make her opinion valid.

    and i’d like to see how movies incorporate responsibility, introspection, intimacy, and intellectual discovery in ways that a game can’t.

    honestly, hasn’t anyone whose actually had an emotional investment in a game gone through the same experience that watching a powerful film or reading a good book invokes? haven’t games taught anyone anything about life? of course they have. like any medium, they can take fantasies and use the fiction to reflect real world issues, and they often do. and like any medium, they can be completely pointless and just fun to mess around with.

    in conclusion, this woman obviously has deeper issues against males and male-dominated society as a whole, and given her position, video games seem like the obvious target to project her womanly rage.

  35. 0
    questionmark1987 says:

    I agree with you. On your point baout people and their favorite genres, there’s a reason we have different genres, it’s because different people like different things. Some REALLY want story driven content (hello adventure, rpg, mmorpg) others just want to kill stuff. Neither is wrong they are just different.


    So in essence once again I agree with you.

  36. 0
    Quarantine says:

    Yeah. I mean, who influences kids the most? Adults. Being a child at heart is inevitable.


    "Because this town is under the stranglehold of a few tight eyed Tree Huggers who would rather play Hacky Sack than lock up the homeless" — Birch Barlow

  37. 0
    Shadow D. Darkman says:

    I’m 18. I was playing violent video games since I was 5 years old, and I think what Cho Seung Hui, Steven K, and the Columbine Boys all did was downright horrible. Sometimes I would come home from school and boot up Metroid Prime (before my Wii went kaput) and pump some Space Pirates full of hot plasma.


  38. 0
    axiomatic says:

    I’m still trying to decide if Heather needs a "nooner" or a "hummer". Either way she needs to relax a little. Maybe play a little Call of Duty? Get some aggression out that she’s clearly been repressing?

    FYI Heather, even the "grow up" men are still boys inside, most are just better at hiding it.

  39. 0
    jsmuli2 says:

    How is this even a debate?  Am I missing something here?  I could have sworn there is one constant in just about every product ever made and sold, and that is to MAKE MONEY!!!!

    Who cares if there are half naked women with axes, if it sells then they will keep making it!

    Who cares if you think a game has pointless killing of aliens, if it sells, they will keep making it!

    Personally, I do care about storyline and what not, which is why I read the official Novels of the Halo and Gears of War universes.  But at the same time, video games create a "perfect" world for us where we can do whatever we want and still remain unharmed.   But at the same time, I will play wolfenstein 3D just because I can run around and KILL FUCKING NAZIS!!!!   THAT IS SO FUN!!!!

    Why are ppl in this discussion bringing their own preferences for game types into their reason why the gaming industry needs to "grow up"  that is the dumbest thing!  Just because you like WoW and RPG’s with very deep stories, doesn’t mean that the Duke Nuken FPS games should become a friggen soap opera!

    Shit people, wake up and realize video games are for FUN! FUN FUN FUN!!!!!!!!!!  The minute any of these political jackasses spew their crap about how bad kids having FUN is, that’s when you know it’s bullshit.  

    It amazes me that society says it’s ok to want to participate in a sport where the objective is to cause the most physical damage to the opposing team and it’s also ok to watch and idolize everyday people sell out their lives and their family lives for 15 minutes of fame!!!!!

    So to anyone that voted "Yes" and plays video games and actually enjoy their time playing the games and have FUN while playing, I respectfully say "FUCK YOU YOU FUCKING HYPOCRITE!!"

  40. 0
    questionmark1987 says:


    Frankly she is correct, a LOT of games are childish and immature in their dealings with serious topics. But so are a lot of movies books and tv. There are games that are lawded for their dealings with serious topics, and as far as serious dealings with hard topics go games are often targetted by other groups for even attempting to deal with these topics on a serious basis. After all, games are still only for children in a lot of people’s eyes.

    That being said I support games becoming a more mature medium with more depth and thought put into them, but I don’t believe there is a problem with them now.

  41. 0
    BearDogg-X says:

    Voted No.

    First off, too many games defeat her argument.

    Second, certain "moral watchdog" critics and certain members of the tabloid trash mainstream news media should "grow up" first.

    Third, Hollywood and the music industry have more "growing up" to do.

    Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.

    Proud supporter of the New Orleans Saints, LSU, 1st Amendment; Real American; Hound of Justice; Even through the darkest days, this fire burns always

    Saints(3-4), LSU(7-0)

  42. 0
    Keith K says:

    Do the Farrelly Brothers need to grow up? Does Seth McFarland need to grow up? Does Hollywood need to grow up? Does the music industry? 


    So I guess the double-standards aren’t strictly gendre-biased.

  43. 0
    SciFi25 says:

    I voted no. Anyone remember the brilliant Wing Commander series, or the Total War series or even World in Conflict. All great mature games, no random blowing stuff up, it all has a meaning in terms of the story the game is trying to tell.


    There’s probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.

  44. 0
    renedrivers says:

    I’m 34. I’ve been playing computer and video games my entire life. There are simply somedays where I just want to come home from work and blow stuff up.

  45. 0
    shihku7 says:

    Tom Clancy, Bungie, and Infinity Ward games don’t have extensive violence? o_O 

    Putting together all their single player campaigns, you probably have a death toll that exceeds 10,000.. and that’s at the hands of the player alone. I kill dozens of people in a 5 minute game of Call of Duty, while a "violent" film might take 2 hours to accomplish the same death toll.


  46. 0
    IsoNeko says:

    Companies, like Tom Clancy, Bungie and Infinity Ward. Have all gotten along fine without the use of extensive violence and people getting their tits out.

    I’m sorry, but the closest we have to God of War in those 3 companies is when Zakhaev loses his Arm when you play as Captain Price in CoD4. Yet look how popular that game is.

    The closest we have to Conan in all of those 3 companies, is Cortana. And she’s a hologram, with no features other than a mound on her chest. She might as well be in a skin tight suit like Samus, at least Samus reveals more.

    The closest we have to House of the Dead: Overkills F-Bomb party. Is in HAWX when Casper your wing-man says "I’m going to get my ass chewed out for this one".

  47. 0
    LujanD says:

    True, from a relative point of view. In the end it’s really all about which way you swing. No argument here that a good shooter amongst shooters shouldn’t get its fair share of props.

  48. 0
    chadachada321 says:

    Then again, some of the top games DO deserve it because they are made simply FOR the killing and the blowing up. They say from the start, "Yes, there is a story somewhere in here, but for this next few hours, we just want you blowing shit up, and we think you’ll like it."

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  49. 0
    LujanD says:

    I voted "no" as I know plenty of games which break what she perceives as the norm. I’d certainly recommend Still Life if I could.

    More importantly, simply because an industry might have an excess of rotten apples it does not suddenly mean it has to "grow up". Even the book industry produces more bad than good in my opinion; should we start picketing for books to "grow up" as well?

    In the end, if she really wanted a different perspective, then why not create a hub for what she considers mature instead of asking everyone else to stop and think like her? The internet’s a wonderful tool in this respect.

    Then she could form her own list of "top" games. Honestly, I actually agree with her in regards to how most "top" game titles are ill-deserved; so I’d probably even join such a site.

    More often than not, in my own humble opinion, the "best" are only labelled as such due to excessive marketing and a lot of hype…

  50. 0
    olstar18 says:

    I voted no because she does not know what she is talking about. ‘Video games need to grow up’ why. She said when film was this old we had pieces of art like citizen cain but what about pices of art like the legacy of kain series or fallout. Sure a vast majority of it is infantile humor and violence but most films in every era were teh same thing and even among these there were some that used those aspects to sell films with deeper meaning which video games have been known to do.

  51. 0
    shihku7 says:

    LBP may be a good example of non-Michael Bay-style games, but it’s still the epitome of a children’s game. I don’t think anyone will want to show LBP as an example that the game industry doesn’t need to grow up. It’s the game industry’s Spongebob Squarepants. Portal is also a good non-Michael Bay style game, but it’s just a first person puzzle game, so that doesn’t really address Chaplin’s suggested requirements for what "growing up" entails, either.



  52. 0
    JC says:

    Thanks for clarifying on that, but yes the industry is like that. It is everyone involved and as I said you can’t force the other consumers to like what you like. Just because GTA4 is one of the best sellers doesn’t mean everyone likes it. Hell, I haven’t even PLAYED the game yet, and I love my GTA games.

    There are varying reasons why people do not go seeking X title, and some just simply don’t want to put in the effort. I’m simply stating that trying to say that games need to grow up is similar to approaching a problem by attempting to work around it instead of fixing it. As you included, consumers need to grow up and want higher things, but you can’t get everyone to agree with that, especially since games are technically a method of entertainment by interactivity. Everyone has fun with a game in their own way.

    Journalists, I’d blame a large part on them, but that’s being cruel; everyone deserves the blame of how games are. But you know what? I get my fill of titles I consider serious and yet fun, the only people who seem to be angry about non-serious titles are the ones who lack the will to go looking for them, or MAKE THEM.

  53. 0
    lumi says:

    EZK, you’re off on key details about Portal’s development.  Portal is not the proof of concept; Narbacular Drop, the Digipen senior project that the game was based on, was the proof of concept.  It was tiny, meant as nothing more than a POC.  Valve saw that, hired the Nuclear Monkey Software team (aka the Digipen students who made ND), and then funded and developed Portal.  They saw a great idea, what amounted to a successful prototype of a single mechanic, and ran with it because they recognized it as a good idea.  Portal was most certainly not the result of "giving that concept polish".

    As for LBP, you’re right about the sales not being what they’d hoped, but the critical acclaim has certainly met and even exceeded expectations.  And who knows, it may yet become a sleeper hit, as you say.

  54. 0
    olstar18 says:

    What about fallout ffvi ffvii silent hill1,2, and 3 bioshock call of duty brothers in arms. You can not talk about how gaming lacks plot without actually looking at the plot of games. Even Gears has a plot its just playing out over 3 games. You do not know what you are talking about.

  55. 0
    metroidprimegmr says:

    Shorah, fellow Myst fan! *internet high-five*

    Really, the whole series is classic. It’s a shame that most people only played the first game and don’t know the overall plot of the series. Heck, with all the little details in the games, I’d venture to say that the series has a Tolkein-esuqe level of myhos.


    Jack Thompson: future Good Burger employee of the month

  56. 0
    E. Zachary Knight says:

    You are correct. But My point stands. Portal was developed to show that the concept was fun and worked. It was only afte rthey had a fully playable game that Valve hired the creators and gave them the professional tool needed to give that concept the polish. That is not that far removed from simply having to make a complete game in order to get retroactive funding. The game could have been made and released a lot sooner had they been able to get some kind of funding before starting development.

    As for LBP, yes that is quite a great example. But again, an exception that proves the rule. The only reason Sony gave that game the kind of funding and exposure it received was because Sony needed something to show that they were inovative enough to compete with Nintendo. Had the Wii not sored beyond all hope of reach from Sony, it may have gone the way of Beyond Good and Evil and Psychonauts. The game itself is not a very well selling game. It may end up being a sleeper hit, but overall it did not live up to the hype.

    E. Zachary Knight
    Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA

    E. Zachary Knight
    Divine Knight Gaming
    Oklahoma Game Development
    Rusty Outlook
    Random Tower
    My Patreon

  57. 0
    E. Zachary Knight says:

    Just to clarify, I never said that we should force publishers to fund creative games. I was simply stating that the games industry as a whole has a tendacy to be risk adverse. They avoid them as much as possible. Now this is not only Publishers, but devs, journalists, and consumers.

    E. Zachary Knight
    Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA

    E. Zachary Knight
    Divine Knight Gaming
    Oklahoma Game Development
    Rusty Outlook
    Random Tower
    My Patreon

  58. 0
    olstar18 says:

    Must someone like the writer of this article. Doesn’t care how much depth of character or storyline is in the game as long as its one that she likes and anything that she doesn’t like is an example of how far video games have to go.

  59. 0
    JC says:

    Yeah and the main problem is, you stick to the mainstream instead of seeking little gems that rarely enjoy the limelight. I disagree with EZK on the matter that we should force some sort of critera among game publishers to always fund the creative gems. That’s an impossibility, I’ll state a crucial reason why:



    The premise of a game is for a player to enjoy it in their own way: This is something MANY gamers don’t agree with. Some people play for the story, some play for the gameplay, or they play to simply escape. If the idea of a game has to be limited to some awesome premise, then we limit creativity dramatically. If each game had to be serious and well written, would we really have some games like Lumines, Fat Princess, Pacman, Tetris, Disgaea, Persona, Viva Pinata, Banjo Kazooie, Advance Wars, Mother/Earthbound (series)etc.

    Developers have put out plenty of classics, the only difference is that some gamers themselves don’t appreciate those titles or they simply aren’t interested, and no one can FORCE THEM to like it. Here’s another fact, you want this "superb classic" yet you want it to be a game… how much interactivity does "you" require for this game? Do you want it to be some simplist text adventure or another type of genre? 

    Game publishers don’t stay away from thoughtful ideas, what they stay away from are titles that may not sell. Look at the company making Dante’s Inferno, are you going to tel me that isn’t thoughtful? Or is the idea too simplistic and should be some shakespeare work before you laud it? 

    Oh, and Gears of War has only been released twice…

    I think you’re thinking of "Wolfenstein 3d was released for the umpteenth" time, that just more or less gives an idea how far your "search" leads you to when it comes to games… 4 years ago?

  60. 0
    JC says:

    Judging by your comments, are you sure you understand the topic or what you’re saying exactly? 

    Her critera was basically: This also means explaining a lot of big-name games that feature zombies, and aliens, and girls in metal bikinis wielding axes. lack of responsibility, introspection, intimacy, and intellectual discovery.

    Do you really think that game [Assassin’s Creed] has that and lacks the last 4?

    Perhaps you wish to revise?

  61. 0
    The Hangd Man says:

    And how is this different from the movie scene today? If you look at movies that have come out in the past ten years (say since 2000) and video games, you’d see almost a direct parallel between crappy fulfillment fantasy movies and crappy fulfillment video games.  The day and age of publishers supporting and putting out real quality work is dead. It’s all about mainstream schlock and the craploads of cash that come from it. Something like Citizen Kane would not be produced today by the movie industry. It’d probably come out of the sundance/indie market, if at all.

    The real problem is publishing. They don’t care about quality, or even coherence. They want great big gobs of cash and that is it. You look at both the movie and game industries. 20th-Fox and EA. They both drop truckloads of cash for summer(movie)/winter(game) blockbusters and repeatedly churn out the same thing each year, only prettier (with bigger explosions, more gratuitous blood and nudity) Look at horror movies from the 60’s, 70’s versus today. Back then, it was about scaring the crap out of the audience. Now it’s all about body counts. Same for games too, look at RE 1 vs RE 5.

    Besides, we already have our Citizen Kane. It was called Myst. One of the best selling games of all time. And you know what? A game like Myst would never be remade today as is. If it was remade it’d be redone just as bad as The Day the Earth Stood Still. Massively larger budget, overpaid actors acting horribly, and a story that takes one or two elements and the title of the original and none of the allegory and meaning that made the original good in the first place.

    If you want well crafted, mature (and not in a 17+ rating sense) all you have to do is go back and look at some of the stuff put out during the late 80’s and 90’s, especially in the adventure genre (I miss you Sierra games). Gabriel Knight, Grim Fandango, Police Quest. We had some serious writing done for games back in the day. Even Indigo Prophecy was doing all right until the second half. That part looks like it was rushed and forced in by a publisher anyways.

    I really hate to say it (considering I work in a bookshop, and I HATE looking or acting like a bookshop elitist prick) but even writing and literature standards have fallen by the wayside. Da Vinci Code? Really? That had some of the worst fricking writing I’ve seen in ages and it was a top bestseller? Reality TV? Don’t even get me started. All media formats, be it games, movies, books and tv, are all on the same track. The publishers put out mass-produced crap on all fronts and the people eat it up.

    You want something good, different, mature and well thought out? Go indie. Works for all media formats.


    I hate broccoli/ and think it totally sucks/ Why isn’t it meat?

  62. 0
    lumi says:

    Actually, while LBP is a legitimate response to your statement, I’m going to back up a step and call you on this.  Portal was designed by students, and it was more of a proof of concept.  The game we now know as Portal was developed at Valve based on the original project, which was much smaller than the final product.  The concept was cool enough that they made a game out of it; they didn’t retroactively fund a game that had already been completed.

  63. 0
    Duffy says:

    I think your generalizing or missed a large chunk of gaming history. Your comments however prove my point, it’s the same as film; it’s a matter of finding the gems.

    What quanitifies a gem is probably a better conversation. While I would gladly sit through "The Man from Earth" as a film, but as a video game? Ineractivity would be forced, essentially a midly interactive movie or book. I would rather read or watch it. Don’t get me wrong, I mourn the loss of the old mainstream adventure games (Lucasarts had a good run of them). Not to mention the majority of games out there aren’t of ‘Michael Bay’ school, they may be the majority of "blockbusters" but come on, do I have to rag on the film industry anymore?

    How high-brow can we go while maintaining a "fun game". Is MGS too much plot in my game? Is Resident Evil too much action not enough commentary? Is tetris just too dull? Are sport games a waste of time? Does every game have to send a message? Can’t we just enjoy the activity? Like people enjoy playing sports? (Which are subsititues for violent aggression)

    My question is what do you expect? What do you want after making a complaint like this? (Getting back to the comment that spawned this poll) I could start listing puzzle games that have sucked hours of my time, or how about some turned based strategy games where I’ve agonized over a single turn.

    Hell, my comment here is all over the place as I’m having a hard time nailing down what the actual complaint is. If you want "different blockbuster games" then the market has to change, and the market is not dictated by the developers, it’s dicatated by the audience. The games are there, it’s not a matter of them existing, it’s a matter of you finding them.

  64. 0
    E. Zachary Knight says:

    Portal is a rare exception to the rule. It was marketed pretty well. But guess what? It was only accepted by Valve after the game was practically done. That right there is the main problem. To get any kind of artsy game published, you have to make it in completion first, then a publisher will decide to fund you. Most any other game just has to have a nice design doc that talks about how well the physics shows peoples heads exploding and they get funded.

    E. Zachary Knight
    Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA

    E. Zachary Knight
    Divine Knight Gaming
    Oklahoma Game Development
    Rusty Outlook
    Random Tower
    My Patreon

  65. 0
    Bennett Beeny says:

    Sure, there’s a lot of chaff in any medium, but I have to agree with the premise that games need to grow up.  Why?  Because only computer and video games seem to exist in an environment where every product is being aimed more and more at the lowbrow ‘Michael Bay’ crowd.  Sure, movies have a lot of crap like ‘Transformers’, but movies also have ‘The Godfather’, ‘Gattaca’, ‘Citizen Kane’ and ‘The Man Who Fell To Earth’ – and the movie industry manage to put out a legitimate classic every few years.  The game industry, in my opinion, has yet to put out one single truly classic game of the calibre of ‘The Godfather’.  Almost EVERY game is a version of Transformers, with pretty graphics and explosions substituting for intelligence and plot.  I think that’s because game developers are being pressured to stay away from anything that remotely aspires to be thoughtful.  Instead, they are encouraged to release ‘Gears of War’ over and over and over again in the hope that we consumers are too fricken stupid to notice.  And so far the plan is working.

  66. 0
    Bennett Beeny says:

    I love Assassin’s Creed.  But at it’s heart it’s still a FPS (First Person Sword) game, so it’s still open to criticism as yet another testosterone-charged power trip for adults who haven’t fully got beyond their adolescence.

    Needless to say, I voted ‘Yes’.

  67. 0
    DarkSaber says:

    Oh, I never said it was a great game, or even a good game, I agree completely with everything you said, but it defintley meets at least 2 out of the criteria. Genre I’m not so sure about, since both GTA and AC could be unhelpfully classed as sandbox action-adventure games.


    I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

  68. 0
    Godkarmachine says:

    Assassin’s Creed didn’t impress me all that much. Enter large city, do a task or two, kill target. You can also do more tasks, but they were all pretty much the same each time you did them. I killed two major targets before quitting. The story interested me, the towns were large, but I was ultimately bored. Also pissed off at guards for attacking me when I decide to jog to my destination, but doing nothing when I’m the only guy walking around on a street full of corpses.

    – Stand back! I have an opinion, and I’m not afraid to use it.

  69. 0
    Duffy says:

    I’m not disagreeing in principle, there is a lot of chaff out there. But it’s no different then any other entertainment venue. Film is a joke 75% of the time (generous percentage), books are so flooded I tend to not read anything that doesn’t come from personal reccomendation (and I love reading), and music…well that’s not even worth ranting about.

    There is nothing special about video games, they follow the same cashcow principle. While games may be a bit more susceptible due to age, they’re already starting to catch up in the mainstream. Diversity is there, and it’s spreading; how much of it will be junk is another matter.

    From my viewpoint, her rant is nothing new, and needless posturing to make it sound like a bigger deal then it actually is.

  70. 0
    E. Zachary Knight says:

    I voted Yes as well. While there are some incredible games out there, they tend to get ignored commercially. Ico, Beyond Good and Evil, Psychonauts, etc. Were great games, and artistic too, but were completely ignored by their respective publishers and the media as a whole.

    It seems that if the game does not fulfill some violent male fantasy, we can’t seem to get any limelight.

    So yes we do need to grow up, but only in terms of marketing and promotion.

    E. Zachary Knight
    Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA

    E. Zachary Knight
    Divine Knight Gaming
    Oklahoma Game Development
    Rusty Outlook
    Random Tower
    My Patreon

  71. 0
    Soldat_Louis says:

    Well, for example, I’m marveled at the effort made by the makers of the GTA series to create a vast, rich, detailed, sandbox town. But at the same time, I wish I could see more sandbox games that aren’t GTA-likes (different game genre, different places, even different historical periods).

  72. 0
    Timbo says:

    I don’t really see how GTA can be said as a game that teaches responsibility.  GTA’s take on responsbility is that when you do bad things, bad things can happen to you, but it’s okay because you’ll die and come back ten seconds later with no long term affects (accept maybe losing a little money and some weapons).

  73. 0
    Bloodharp says:


    Sorry for having to do that, but im tired of people doing that to such an enjoyable show. Now then; games with excellent amounts of complexity and intelligence: Metal Gear Solid, with its mix of high-politics, black sheeps, betrayal, terrorism, and international peace-keeping. The Halo series to those who read it, about how the children were kidnapped for training to become soldiers, attempts at peace amongst foreign races and the war tactics needed when such attempts fail, etc etc. Final Fantasy series with a massive variety of world saving organizations, politics, love interests, and personal insight. Resident Evil’s main 7 games (0-5 + Code: Veronica) have betrayal by a trusted superior, anti-bioterrorism efforts, UN policy making, governmental action against unlawfully acting corporations, and brave men and women who fight to protect our world from those who would abuse the weak. The list goes on, so dont you DARE say that gaming is a buch of trollop bull. The games are not that hard to find, not that hidden, and are often pushed forth by their producers. There is always room for improvment, but that does NOT mean we have not come a long way.

    In war, truth is the first casualty.

  74. 0
    chadachada321 says:

    Mass Effect.

    Bioshock. Don’t tell me that it’s cookie-cutter and has no depth.

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  75. 0
    Bennett Beeny says:

    Half Life is hardly the Citizen Kane of games.  The problem here is that we’ve become used to mediocrity.  I mean heck, video game plots don’t even come close to the complexity of most bad anime for crying out loud – it’s like Inuyasha: the fans won’t accept that it’s garbage and keep insisting that there’s a deep message behind all the mindless violence, but for anyone who has an ounce of critical sense, it’s just garbage.

    Almost every mainstream game has the same cookie-cutter plot and the same intellectual depth as the movie Independence Day.  They just never get more complex than that.  To suggest that that’s deep and intellectual enough is insulting – or should be if any of us had a brain cell in our heads that was able to tell the difference after we’ve been fed the endless dross that’s been shovelled at us every year.

  76. 0
    DarkSaber says:

    "Call me kooky, but I seem to be getting a lot more out of my games than Chaplin or Vixen."

    That because you aren’t a self-important hack trying to justify your paycheck and job title.


    I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

  77. 0
    Vake Xeacons says:

     I did read the article, and I didn’t get anything out of it. "Girls in metal bikinis wielding axes"? Power Fantasies? I don’t know what games she’s referring to. 

    Games show plenty of the qualities she says they should have:

    Responsibility: Sandbox games like GTA and Fable take away restrictions, leaving the player to think for themselves, and suffer consequences for their actions.

    Introspection: Half-life for instance is a deep and sordid story about science and Darwinism, where we’re going based on where we’ve been.

    Intimacy: Any MMO helps build a camaraderie between players who join for a common cause.

    Intellectual Discovery: How many times have we seen this? It’s seems every game nowadays has to have an intellectual message that makes us look deep within ourselves. Aside from the sandbox games I’ve already mentioned, as well as Half-life, let’s check out Bioshock or the Thief series. I personally found some life-metaphors in the Legacy of Kain series.

    Call me kooky, but I seem to be getting a lot more out of my games than Chaplin or Vixen.

  78. 0
    jsmuli2 says:

    Totally agree, also, what the fuck does GROW UP mean? does it mean act like a "Grown up?"  Are they fucking serious?  I could have sworn the CEOs of all the companies that fucked us over are "Grown Ups"  but its ok because it’s better than killing fake aliens.

  79. 0
    jsmuli2 says:

    Are you serious?! 


    No seriously, are you that friggen SERIOUS?!

    Economics 101:  If it makes money, keep selling it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Why should morals come into the private sector?  So now idiot politicians and fake news anchors should dictate what kind of games I have to choose from?  I’m in my mid 20’s, I have already been laid off from 2 jobs and I am clinging to this one because there’s not much else for me at this stage in life.  So if I want a pointless game of shooting off the heads of ALIENS(!!!! not humans….ALIENS) then by g0d let me kill some fucking arrangements of 1’s and 0’s.


    Of course, there are plenty of ppl out there like me that give the gaming industry such a good financial backing.  The minute that all the games in the world are based off of "Moral" suggestions from parents/politicians/media then the entire industry will FAIL, simply because no one over the age of 8 will want to play games anymore.


    "I agree with her. There’s a whole lot of ‘not my responsibility’-ism in our media industries. Well, like it or not they’re in a position where they have sway over this generation. They should use it responsibly."

    Define "responsibly" please.  Because last time I checked, if an 8 year old got their hands on GTA 4 and the parent just let them play it, then hmmmmmm the responsibility is ON THE PARENT!!!!!  NOT THE DEVELOPERS!!!!  WHY?!?!  THOSE GAMES ARE FOR MATURE AUDIENCES.  

    So if you are going to want ALL games to be "E for EVERYONE" friendly, then goodluck trying to make money! 

    Keep in mind.  The video game industry is thriving despite current economic conditions, now think about your mindless restrictive ideas.


  80. 0
    Wolvenmoon says:

    I agree with her. There’s a whole lot of ‘not my responsibility’-ism in our media industries. Well, like it or not they’re in a position where they have sway over this generation. They should use it responsibly.

    Some of the game companies teach morals that are as nasty, albeit liberal, as the ones JT espouses.

    We are all a product of our societies and cultures. There is no escaping this. If you are raised in a house of racists, you will have to make conscious effort to overcome racist thinking. If your father is a womanizer, you will have to watch yourself to not become one.

    What you allow into your life influences you, whether blatant or subtle.

    I will not buy securom games. and

  81. 0
    rdeegvainl says:

    It seems like people asking for the growing up are making it all or nothing. There are plenty of great games that make you think, and deal intelligently with their themes. But not all, and people tend to choose shoot-em-ups and the like. Why do people insist on making it all or nothing?

  82. 0
    Flamespeak says:

    I voted no.

    Okami, Beyond Good and Evil, Indigo Prophecy, and many others challenge her claims as video games being just shooting zombies and the such. I do agree with her that many companies are making games that focus on such events, but do you know why they do?

    Look at the sales figures of the games I listed. Truly awesome games, wonderful examples of the video game industry. But if they aren’t going to sell and make a profit for a company that makes video games for *gasp* financial gain, then why should they venture too far from a formula that works frequently.  The industry does pump out great games, but the really inovative titles are much slower coming out because they are a risk and most of the time they don’t pay off.

    The industry is doing a fine job of catering to the wants of its customers, in my personal opinion.


    -25 years of gaming……and I still want more.

  83. 0
    RedKing says:

    Not to sound stupid and all, but… are games supposed to be about fun and pure enjoyment?

    I mean, come on! I love thoes shoot ’em up games and horror ones too. I don’t agree with this person 100%.

  84. 0
    TBoneTony says:

    I would like to back up my statement with…

    It is not the Industry’s problem, it is the mainstream media problem.

    There are lots of great examples of Videogames that express emotion and intimacy.

    But sadly the mainstreem only see Videogames though their eyes, and they put the blame on the Videogame Developers all because they don’t create the games that the mainstream media want.

    To be honest, we could go a long way by not listening to these types of people.


  85. 0
    TBoneTony says:

    That was one of the opinions from the Game Developers Conference.

    To be honest, from all the things I have learned from school. Anything that is considered as grown up is NOT FUN AT ALL!!!!

    I love the Videogames that are around at the moment.

    Some might want Videogames to grow up, but perhaps those people are missing the real point about Videogames, and that is that Videogames are great because they are fun.

    All this talk about the need to have Videogames more educational or more grown up are coming from people who may not have really played Videogames at all.

    And therefore they don’t really understand the FUN that Videogames are about.

    Perhaps they need to remind themselves of when they were kids in order to realize that FUN is important when it comes to Videogames.

    All this talk about Serious Videogames too, it is nice to have Videogames speek about social issues but who is ever going to play them for long if those Videogames are not fun.

    that is what I would be asking, why are people doing so much to take the fun away from Videogames all because others want the games to grow up?

  86. 0
    Quarantine says:

    This debate is making my head hurt.

    I’m inclined to agree with Duffy. But I will say this:

    Ban home video game entertainment, and make them all come back to the cabinets that they were once on. Then will games "Grow Up". Having less access to them would be a much better prize and will force developers to make actual, good games!


    "Because this town is under the stranglehold of a few tight eyed Tree Huggers who would rather play Hacky Sack than lock up the homeless" — Birch Barlow

  87. 0
    State says:

    What, because "grown up" means sex? You’ll find a lot of "grown up" films with low certificates, because they contain no sex or violence. "Grown up" doesn’t equal sex, violence or bad language although this is what the games industry seems to think, which is why she was correct in saying that it’s run by a bunch of oversized kids (ie they have no idea what adult situations actually are).

  88. 0
    State says:

    So it has to be all or nothing? There is no middle-ground? You can’t have some thoughtful games, and some bog-standard games? You can’t put some intelligence into a game? You can’t add some sort of decent writing to games like Gears of War?

  89. 0
    digdug says:

    Some guy in Hollywood tried what she wants once. I think he was (originally) a director. Anyhow, somehow he got hired to run one of the big studios and tried to put out more "serious", "artistic", "mature"….movies instead of the typical commercial, violent, sexy… stuff. He was a hero to journalists and critics, but he lasted about a year or so. His movies just about bankrupted the stuidio. 

    This woman is tilting at windmills. She needs to learn about how markets work.


  90. 0
    Brokenscope says:

    What opponents are we talking about here? This issue at hand isn’t an "us and them" problem, or maybe some people are to immature to see that.

  91. 0
    Shadow D. Darkman says:

    One obviously is the game industry, the other is the industry’s opponents.

    However, compared to how much the industry’s opponents need to grow up, the industry itself is in it’s late teens.


  92. 0
    Bennett Beeny says:

    It basically is.

    Before reading her criticisms, I was all fired up to defend games.  But she has a point.  I’ll bet most of the people voting ‘no’ in this poll haven’t read what she says.

  93. 0
    DarkSaber says:

    Only if you think Gears of War is the only template used to make games.


    I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

  94. 0
    Shadow D. Darkman says:

    IDK, it seems like both sides have some growing up to do, less so on the game industry’s side.


  95. 0
    Michael Chandra says:

    Well, you could start by reading the article. Should be able to get a few answers out of that one.

    Some quotes:

    "She says this puts her in the role of a “translator,” trying to tell the mainstream why gaming even matters. This also means explaining […] girls in metal bikinis wielding axes. And while she’s heard the excuses – it’s “a very new medium” – she’s way past accepting them."

    Chaplin: "Games avoid any of the things that separate men from boys: responsibility, introspection, intimacy, and intellectual discovery"

    Vixen: "But games should also be more than a power fantasy. It’s eerie how rarely the qualities she ticked off find a place in games. This is important not just to the girls, but to the boys who don’t dream of being a marine or a quarterback."

  96. 0
    Vake Xeacons says:

    I don’t know what she’s talking about. Is she complaining about hardcore games? Is it the action that’s pandered to guys? Does she want more casual games? We’ve been trying to “grow up” for years; what more does she want?

  97. 0
    Nocturne says:

    I voted no, I think that games are already more mature than she’s making out, and Okami was a heck of a lot more interesting than Citizen Kane, if Ico were a movie a lot of people would have whinged about the lack of dialogue (and that was a more believable connection between two characters than in a lot of films)

    There may be a lot of games that can be considered to be catering to juvenile fantasies, there are also a lot more Porkys, Rambos, American Pies etc out there.

  98. 0
    Cheater87 says:

    IMHO the media needs to grow up and stop pointing fingers at games. Games are just as grown up as movies and TV shows when it comes to themes.

  99. 0
    Benji says:

    I think her statement is wrong, both in saying that there are no sophisticated or ‘grown-up’ games, and in implying that lack of sophistication is a bad thing.  Introspection and intellectual discovery are all well and good, but sometimes you just want to blast the everliving shit out of anything that moves.

  100. 0
    ZippyDSMlee says:

    Oy thats like saying the film indutry sucks becuse you only watch action moives….


    Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.

  101. 0
    feitclub says:

    She’s largely right. Extending her analogy, there certainly were some highbrow products in film by this point in their history. But they were not the ONLY films around. I’d wager the big hits were more broad in their appeal.

    Gaming certainly needs more high-profile games that aren’t about bald space marines shooting aliens, even if those continue to draw in the crowds. In some sense, the game makers’ hands are tied in that they cannot ignore the demands of the eager game buyers. Those shooters will never become obsolete as far as the audience is concerned, but it would be nice to see more risks from the major publishers.

    Do Not Talk About Feitclub

  102. 0
    ZippyDSMlee says:

    Yes I would say the game industry needs to grow up but not quite for what she is going on about. I can say they need "improvement" on how  they handle development time and priorities if you are going to pay a premium for gaming(any game over 40$,console over 250) they should not under develop(polish,control options,features like gore,sound,music,voice volume, more varied minor gameplay toggles)/ support(bugs, very poorly built parts, bad manufacturing,bad keys/DRM) and this all befor dealing with core issues of modern game design itself with rushed and simplistic level design that looks great but functions(layout/explore) poorly, safe and bland gameplay implementations that are utterly generic and boring.

    Moving on(ohhhh I wish >>) I can agree to a point with content depth but perhaps me thinks she needs to get away from action based titles and look into RPGs and Strategy games, FF 6 and ZOE fist of mars are good examples of relatively deep and moving games then expand on to more modern counter parts.
    But from my POV as mostly an anime fan ""LULZ plots"" are more frequent when a industry focusing on as much of the mainstream as it possibly can tis going to be contorted and convoluted just because you can not please everyone and tis far easier to please the greater numbers of the witless and slow.


    I forgot to rail on writing/dailog qauilty…


    GP why not updated the article with the poll insted of makign a new article?




    Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.

  103. 0
    DarkSaber says:

    Care to elaborate how? Growing up is not the same as finding new ways to tell a story the way I see it…


    I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

  104. 0
    Soldat_Louis says:

    I voted yes.

    Granted, video game medium has accomplished a lot since its birth. But it has the potential to do so much more, and so much better…

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