Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says Developer

April 14, 2009 -

Just when you thought Six Days in Fallujah couldn't get any more controversial...

The developer of Six Days in Fallujah told attendees at Konami's recent Gamers' Night event that Iraqi insurgents are contributing to the project along with U.S. Marines and Iraqi civilians.

Joystiq's Randy Nelson has a detailed report, including the startling remarks by Atomic Games president Peter Tamte:

It's important for us to say, you know, that there are actually three communities that are very affected by the battle for Fallujah. Certainly the Marines. Certainly the Iraqi civilians within Fallujah, and the insurgents as well. We are actually getting contributions from all three of those communities so that we can get the kind of insight we're trying to get.

I need to be careful about the specifics that I give... I think all of us are curious to know why [insurgents] were there. The insurgents [came from] different countries. And I think we're all kind of curious about you know - they went there knowing that they were going to die... And I think that that's a perspective that we should all understand.

[Insurgents are] involved in the creation of the game as well, as are Iraqi civilians. That's important to us. It's true. The game -- the influences for the game came from the Marines that returned from Fallujah. But quite frankly in talking with them, it's um, many people would just like this to be a recreation and we can't recreate that without getting the perspectives of all the people who were involved.

Although Tamte doesn't give a straightforward answer to whether or not Atomic has actually communicated with insurgents, his comments indicate that some type of input has taken place. It's unclear whether that input was direct or indirect.

The news that there is an insurgent perspective is likely to provoke renewed outrage among some Iraq War veterans as well as families of military personnel killed and wounded in the conflict. Dan Rosenthal, a veteran of the war who now operates the gameslaw.net site, reacted strongly to word of Six Days in Fallujah's insurgent perspective:

Absolutely unbelievable that Peter Tamte and [creative director] Juan Benito would try to make an "entertainment" experience about a war that we're actively fighting, while soliciting advice and input on how to best kill Marines in game, from people who have worked to kill Marines in real life. The hypocrisy and double-speak coming out of Atomic's leadership is beyond unbelievable. 

 

The game is a "communications tool".....a communications tool for who? The insurgency? And then out of the other corner of their mouths, they try to pass the game off as a "telling of stories"; but that's a rude slap in the face to the approximately 100 Marines who died in the battles of Fallujah when the "story-telling" game includes Halo-style health regeneration. I'm pretty sure I don't remember that being standard issue when I was in Iraq.

GP: We're struggling to recall another game that generated this much controversy this early in its development cycle.


Comments

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

Games of WWII...

x1,000,000 worse!

We have fun with though right?

Do [many] people complain?

 

Professional Percentage of Malware.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

Hmmm... Just some thoughts

Can we draw that their are some similarities between insurgent input and super columbine massacre RPG? maybe along the lines of understanding what has happened through their point of view?

Is getting insurgent input vastly different than the movies Dances with Wolves and The Last Samurai where the protagonist fights against Manifest Destiny and American Imperialism in what would be consider a traitorous act?

Are we really that shallow and believe that the insurgents dont have a story to tell? Could their reason(s) to fight back be the similar reason(s) why people joined the military after 9-11?

I really hope this game doesnt turn into Quest for Saddam / Quest for Bush, etc...

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

Also the Japanese are the only country of people who have suffered a neuclear attack, so I think that Konami might be onto a good thing.

As long as they are not preachy, this could be an interesting game that could well be worth playing.

But at the same time, I will wait for the review of the game from someone who has already played it before I make a final judgement.

 

TBoneTony

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

Wow...this is really a good step.

It will be interesting on how they can play out the storyline with all 3 sides.

The US Marrines, the Iraq sivilians and the Militants.

I think this is a really good thing in trying to make a game out of a current war where each side can have their own voice and perspective.

Also this would lead to other sides of the debate trying to moral outcry the other, but honestly I could not care any less from these people unless if they are willing to just sit down, shut up and play the game before jumping to conclusions.

 

Play the game, THEN decide.

 

In any case, this goes allong with the idea that all sides should have their stories to be told in the war, not just one side.

 

Plus it will be interesting to see how the game fares with the sales and the game reviews.

 

This could perhaps be a really important step for Videogames to become a serious social commentator on various social and political issues, but at the same time the game needs to be fun and enjoyable and of course evoke some sort of emotion when we are playing the game. If a game is not fun, then you will not want to play it.

 

 

TBoneTony

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

This development makes me think that Six Days In Fallujah will be one of the most important video games to come out next year.

The Honest Game - http://www.thehonestgame.org

The Honest Game - http://www.thehonestgame.org

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

This was already in the GamePro issue featuring the game. Still, its awful to see the media try to blacklist this game. Censorship is NEVER good. Besides, does anyone know HOW they got the information from insurgents? Jail maybe? I don't know so I won't assume.

DarthCadeous501- Pink Halo 3 Ninja, Mongoose Suicidee, and Current Iron Man Hater

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

What pisses me off about this whole thing is how blatant the use of controversy for advertising is. I mean, why else would they speak like they have in the past besides to generate as much controvesry as possible. While I know this  is nothing new, it nonetheless irks me.

As for the "quality" of their insurgents, there is no way the rank and file 'hardcore' would participate is such a thing. The leaders might, but their "contribution" would likely be little more than "America is Satan!, etc. etc." It would be like trying to get a 'hardcore' christian fundie to comment on a film that involved either homosexuality or abortion.

Moderates people!

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

Some of the insurgents were only fighting because they thought that all America wanted was to subjicate Iraq and take all of it's oil. After the Americans sent out to some of the villages and towns to explain that, no, we really do want your country to stabilize, that way we can buy your oil from you, people started giving up the insurgency.

I'm guessing these are the type of people that the developer is currently/going to interview.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

No censorship, no comment.

As far as “feelings” are concerned, I really couldn’t care less…

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

 I'm not sure what you mean by 'this whole thing is retarded', but I agree that it shouldn't be censored in any way.

Now, this whole thing with the regenerating health, that is stupid as hell. When a soldier gets shot, they go down. Yes, their armor can protect them somewhat, and if they get winged in the leg or something it can probably be patched up in the field and they can continue on. But if you are able to be shot by 5 bullets and then go hide behind a wall and regen, I am not buying this game.

I believe there was a comment saying that you would need some sort of regenerating health in order to complete the mission or objective. Well, no you don't. The first thing that came to mind is the fact that soldiers always work in squads. If the guy you are controlling gets taken down, control switches over to someone else in the squad and you continue. There's also the point that they are talking to the guys who survived the battle. If they recreate that exactly, then you will be playing the part of someone who survived. So if they survived the real thing, surely you can survive a virtual version of it?

Not saying that this game is guaranteed to be great. I don't hold much hope that they'll do it right, but I leave open the possibility that they might.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

A glimmer of hope on the health front is that Atomic are responsible for the Close Combat WW2 RTS games, widely heralded for their innovations towards realism. Troops had morale levels, fatigue levels, and as they received injury performed and moved noticably worse until they were killed off entirely.

This sort of thing was unheard of at the time, RTS units tended to perform indetically at full or 1% health. We can only only hope they are going to approach this FPS with a view to trying to add similar innovations.

--------------------------------------------------

I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

I know this won't happen, but it would be nice if this game was brutally, brutally real.

A few hits, you are down.  No regenerating health, only medics which can do very little.

No "learning curves" or any of those convieniences, first mission is just as hard as the last mission.  No saving your game, once you die you die and you can start again if you wish.  If there are cutscenes, you can't skip them, the soldiers couldn't skip through thier life.

Perhaps an online mode, where each person takes control of a marine in the squad.  However, same rules apply, once you die you are instantly booted from the game and you cannot rejoin that game in progress.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

...You know what? This whole thing is retarded. As long as no state censorship is involved, I wash my hands. Have fun.

www.gameslaw.net

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

Is that really representation for a site called "GamesLaw"?

Wow. That's some in-depth legal analysis.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

My comments here on GamePolitics in no way reflect the opinions of GamesLaw. If you want legal analysis, go there. If you want punditry, stay here. I don't see any legal issue in this situation, so why should I only talk law all the time?

www.gameslaw.net

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

Based on your first comment in the thread, I see no compelling reason to go there seeking any kind of thought-provoking legal analysis. Just because the comments section of this site often turns into a political pissing contest for the soapbox-deprived doesn't mean you have to contribute to the problem.

If you're shilling for a site promoting a thoughtful legal discussion of gaming in every signature, you may want to raise the level of your discourse.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

Nobody's shilling for anything. There's a vast difference between a comment someone makes in a personal capacity and a story they write in an editorial capacity. I hope you choose to visit GamesLaw for your gaming legal analysis anyway.

-- Dan "SWATJester" Rosenthal; Executive Director, http://www.gameslaw.net

-- Dan Rosenthal

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

I think this again has to do with where "game" stands in our society. From Dan Rosenthal's quote, it's clear that video games are, at least for him, nothing more than a toy. A entertainment.

Well, can a game be created to be like documentary? I think that's what this whole argument is about.

My thought: No. The purpose of game is to provide entertainment. It gives players some objectives to achieve, and by doing so, players have fun. If we're talking about real, serious issue that just happened, I do not think game is just a good medium to deliver anything about it.

If someone were to adamently go ahead and create an interactive experience recreating such event, it'd have to be something that's less game, but more of an interactive, yet highly scripted scenario simulator. Now that'd accurately recreate the situation.

--

XBL: NekoNari

http://notjustgame.blogspot.com/

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

I disagree with your thought that games cannot be created like documentaries due to the purpose of providing entertainment... As much as people hate to admit it, documentaries ARE entertainment. News and current affairs shows ARE entertainment. People might not find it 'fun' to watch a documentary, but they are entertained the whole way through otherwise they wouldn't watch it. This is why even documentaries need some form of story structure or character arcs, because without these people would find them boring. Documentary makers often manufacture such structures by creative editing of materials to ensure that the documentary is compelling and entertaining for viewers to watch. Imagine if "The King of Kong" was just about the competition for the Kong high score, and not about the dramatised rivalry between Billy Mitchell (the villain) and Steve Wiebe (the underdog challenger).

Furthermore, even the news relies on ratings to survive, and with a limited time slot they need to cover what they believe will entertain viewers... There are many wars going on around the world, but news shows choose to focus on those that can be related to by viewers, and on the occassional heartwarming 'light news' story, as they would rather keep viewers by selectively choosing what to report, than have to objectively report ALL world events.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

Your second sentence is unclear as to whether you are referring to me, or to Tamte. I certainly view games as capable of more than just entertainment.

-- Dan "SWATJester" Rosenthal; Executive Director, http://www.gameslaw.net

-- Dan Rosenthal

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

Does this border on treason?

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

You're accusing a Japanese developer of committing treason. -_-

Freedom of speach and all that. Unless they, you know, actually picked up a gun and shot at US forces then it's not treason.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

Japanese people shooting at U.S. forces would be an act of war, not treason.

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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

Sorry, didn't realize it was a japanese company.  Really need to stop commenting, foot in mouth too much.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

Some people seem to be drifting away from the game issue into a 'How dare they even suggest there might possibly be some criticism of why our marines are there'.

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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

Not from me. I've been notably critical of the war since I left IWVO. That's precisely my point. Atomic has pledged not to get into the politics behind the game. Yet the politics ARE the reason we were and still are in Fallujah. If they're not getting into that, they're not telling the story.

-- Dan "SWATJester" Rosenthal; Executive Director, http://www.gameslaw.net

-- Dan Rosenthal

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

Which is why they say they are in contact with insurgents. There is more than one side to politics as well as combat.

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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

The insurgency did not exist before the war; hence it is irrelevant to the reasons why we went.

-- Dan "SWATJester" Rosenthal; Executive Director, http://www.gameslaw.net

-- Dan Rosenthal

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

Man, there are too many people here who are just too damned ready to offer knee-jerk defense of anything game-related.

And before anyone thinks of going all ad hominem on me, don't bother.  Scan my comments on this site; note that I have been playing games all my life, and I'm now a professional game dev.  Games are my life, and I have always fought tooth and nail for them to get the recognition and validation they deserve.

This whole thing still goes back to Dan's original complaint: Atomic Games will 1) fail at their stated goal of "accurately recreating the experience" of being in Fallujah, or 2) create a game that no one wants to play, because the experience of being there WASN'T FUCKING FUN.

So let's make the only remotely logical assumption: they'll make a game that they think will sell.

Look at this from a soldier's perspective.  You survive Fallujah (probably watched at least one friend die, though), come home, and find out that a game company is interviewing the guy who killed your fellow soldiers, about how he killed them, so they can put it into their product.  Do you really expect any of the guys who were actually there to believe this game is going to accurately recreate that experience?  Ergo, do you really expect any of them to be okay with this?  Again, if you want to know how they're doing what they're doing, ask our own military.

Interviewing insurgents isn't going to make this game fail any less at its stated goal.  It's just a slap in the face.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

"This whole thing still goes back to Dan's original complaint: Atomic Games will 1) fail at their stated goal of "accurately recreating the experience" of being in Fallujah, or 2) create a game that no one wants to play, because the experience of being there WASN'T FUCKING FUN."

You make the assumption that games are supposed to be fun. This is incorrect, and so your arguement has no merit.

The Honest Game - http://www.thehonestgame.org

The Honest Game - http://www.thehonestgame.org

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

I believe there are too many people ready to knee-jerk react to anything military related and automatically assume that it is disrespectful.

I think more people need to stop acting like things are off limits. The freedoms that military members fight for include the freedom of speech, and to try and chill that, is hypocrytical from a military members perspective, and direspectfull to the military from a civilian perspective.

military personnel here

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

"I believe there are too many people ready to knee-jerk react to anything military related and automatically assume that it is disrespectful."

I think someone needs to stop making sweeping statements about other posters.  If you knew anything at about me or my history at GP, you'd know that "knee-jerk reactions to anything military" is about as far off-base as you can get when describing my positions.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

To be honest, I couldn't care less about your history on GP or not. My comment was a flipping of your sweeping statement, and directed not at any individual. If it struck a cord, maybe you should think about it. If the shoe fits and all that.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

"Atomic Games will 1) fail at their stated goal of "accurately recreating the experience" of being in Fallujah, or 2) create a game that no one wants to play, because the experience of being there WASN'T FUCKING FUN."

You haven't played this game and neither has anyone else. Yet, you're already convinced that you know how the game's going to turn out. No offense, but that's pretty classic knee-jerk material.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

Did I misunderstand something here?  Isn't the crux of the game to tell the stories of the soldiers who lived through the experience?  How are you supposed to get through the game, and hence the story, if you can't regenerate your health?

I sort of feel like I'm asking a silly question, my apologies.

"De minimus non curat lex"

"De minimus non curat lex"

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

There were plenty of ways to regain health in games before Halo came along and fucked everything up.

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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

I wouldn't say that Halo messed everything up, it just tried to eliminate the abstract concept of health packs in a video game by replacing them with regenerating sheilds. Then everyone just said, "screw it" and now regenerating health bars are all the rage.

The point is, there is plenty of opprotunities for a slightly more realistic health system, such as squad medics or (presumably) first aid kits from humvees. Or they could skip a healing system, and go for something I saw in a shooter a couple of years back, where if you died, your perspective switched to another computer controlled soldier on the battlefield and you took control of that person. It might have been Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfare, but I can't remember for sure.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

A very good example of how the game is doomed to fail its stated goal.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

Well, time for the claims that Konami is a terrorist company. Makesme doubly glad the morons that comment on other blogs with things like "video games and atheists are ruining america, and need ot be deported" haven't bothered to come here.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

Don't forget those vile acid-blooded alien queerosexuals.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

I don't see this issue with insurgents adding to the game, if they want realism--it can't be any better than that!

Besides, what if, a very, very, LARGE IF, this turns out to be the one thing that shows how we as humans from all over the world can work together without killing each other?

What better thing to see than an idea that brings everyone in the world together -- even if it keeps them apart spatially.

I guess I can dream, but I don't think it's too much of a dream.

Praetorian

"If you sit by the river long enough, you will see the body of your enemy floating by."

http://www.myspace.com/pree_tawr_ee_uhn



Praetorian

"If you sit by the river long enough, you will see the body of your enemy floating by."

http://www.myspace.com/pree_tawr_ee_uhn

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

I would love ot share youir vision, but sadly, the people who speak out agaisnt video games are unlikely to play or even see parts of this that aren't objectionable, and since it's not public knowledge tat insurgents are helping with the game, it will likely be pointed out that Konami is a terrorist company and is now making games where you play as an insurgent killing American soldiers, and the ignorant masses will likely eat it up.

It won't help that Konami is a Japanese company and not an American one, as in some eyes that will just validate the claims.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

"Absolutely unbelievable that Peter Tamte and [creative director] Juan Benito [would] solicit[] advice and input on how to best kill Marines in [the] game, from people who have worked to kill Marines in real life."

Umm, should they solicit advice and input from those who have absolutely no experience working to kill Marines in real life?

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

Pretty sure there are plenty of survivors you could ask about how the insurgents are going about killing Marines.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

Wouldn't give you much of an insight into WHY they were shooting hostile invaders though would it.

--------------------------------------------------

I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

Which has what, exactly, to do with telling the story of the soldiers we sent over there?  That's what the game is allegedly supposed to be about.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

There's that perspective thing again.

YOU are assuming that to create something that tells the story about the battle, it MUST be the story of the Marines, rather than the battle and the events in general.  Having the perspective of all involved, rather than just one side's perspective, makes it far more complete.

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

Nightwng, I think that without specifically trying to tell the story of the Marines involved, then it does cross into the realm of insensitive opportunism.  That was the one saving grace this game had, and it was impractical, at that.  This isn't a documentary.

And again, I'm going to approach this from the "fun vs. accuracy" angle.  If they went about their research and managed to accurately recreate the experience of being an insurgent, or a civilian, would you expect that to be at all fun?

Claiming to accurately recreate experiences that simply aren't fun is just not something that a game should be doing.  It's going to succeed in its goal and fail as a game (not fun, by definition), or it's going to fail in its stated goal, in which case it's just making money off of an inaccurate commercialization of an on-going war, and that I see as a reasonable thing for survivors to be upset over.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

All your ranting about 'if it's accurate it wont be fun' just shows your ignorance of Atomics previous games.

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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

Opprotunism or not, I think I would still like to hear why the Insurgents felt justified in what they did. All too often, war is painted in colors of black and white; the good Americans, coming to put a stop to the evil Germans with the help of Great Britan and occupied France. War isn't that simple, not normally anyway, and it couldn't hurt to know more about what motivates the other side in this conflict.

 
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Technogeekhttp://www.newsweek.com/gamergate-about-media-ethics-or-harassing-women-harassment-data-show-27973610/25/2014 - 8:54pm
TechnogeekAnd speaking of harassment and Gamergate, Newsweek had a social media analytics company analyze the hashtag in the interest of finding out what the movement was really about. The results should surprise absolutely nobody at this point.10/25/2014 - 8:54pm
Technogeek@Neeneko "women and minorities should be the ones leaving and creating their own spaces" -- That is a thing you really thought was a good idea to type? Because...wow, just wow.10/25/2014 - 8:54pm
Neo_DrKefkaI was called a traitor for speaking out on harassment and I was put on a list for people on twitter to mass report me. Only GamerGate site that has come out of this that has been reputable would be TechRaptor. 2/210/25/2014 - 7:09pm
Neo_DrKefka@Neeneko The reason why I ended my support of #GamerGate was the fact KingofPol (The guy who was sent the knife) ended up saying crap about those with autism. At this point I confronted the community and some big wig writers on the #GamerGate side. 1/210/25/2014 - 7:08pm
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Neeneko@ quiknkold - problem is it has never been about freedom, it is about dominance, ownership, and priviliage. women and minorities should be the ones leaving and creating their own spaces, not them!10/25/2014 - 6:54pm
Neo_DrKefka@Mecha I hear you about KingofPol this is a guy who is using GamerGate to boost his career. Most of his streams are crap about him talking about him being drunk. What happened to him was wrong but it doesn't change the fact he has instigated much of this10/25/2014 - 5:40pm
Craig R.And I'll be perfectly happy in never seeing the phrase 'false flag' ever again, as it is one of the worst notions to ever come out of the camp of the tinfoil brigade that is already completely overused.10/25/2014 - 3:50pm
Craig R.Gone for a week and come back to find GG didn't go away at all. Dammit.10/25/2014 - 3:48pm
Matthew Wilsonif they were serious, they would go to youtube. most youtube game reviewers tend to revew games as product, and tend leave social issues out of it.10/25/2014 - 1:42pm
quiknkoldif the gamergaters were serious, they'd realize that Kotaku and Polygon arent the only games in town, and that with the freedom of the internet, they could create their own websites and achieve the goals they are trying to achieve without arguement.10/25/2014 - 1:35pm
james_fudgehe should have called the police.10/25/2014 - 1:20pm
TechnogeekAt least my statement still holds if it does turn out to be a false flag.10/25/2014 - 1:03pm
NeenekoThough I admit, since doxxing and false flag where heavily used tactics of the GG supporters, while they are not historical tactics used by detractors, I am skeptical how much it is really 'both sides' doing it in any real volume.10/25/2014 - 1:01pm
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