Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says Developer

April 14, 2009 -

Just when you thought Six Days in Fallujah couldn't get any more controversial...

The developer of Six Days in Fallujah told attendees at Konami's recent Gamers' Night event that Iraqi insurgents are contributing to the project along with U.S. Marines and Iraqi civilians.

Joystiq's Randy Nelson has a detailed report, including the startling remarks by Atomic Games president Peter Tamte:

It's important for us to say, you know, that there are actually three communities that are very affected by the battle for Fallujah. Certainly the Marines. Certainly the Iraqi civilians within Fallujah, and the insurgents as well. We are actually getting contributions from all three of those communities so that we can get the kind of insight we're trying to get.

I need to be careful about the specifics that I give... I think all of us are curious to know why [insurgents] were there. The insurgents [came from] different countries. And I think we're all kind of curious about you know - they went there knowing that they were going to die... And I think that that's a perspective that we should all understand.

[Insurgents are] involved in the creation of the game as well, as are Iraqi civilians. That's important to us. It's true. The game -- the influences for the game came from the Marines that returned from Fallujah. But quite frankly in talking with them, it's um, many people would just like this to be a recreation and we can't recreate that without getting the perspectives of all the people who were involved.

Although Tamte doesn't give a straightforward answer to whether or not Atomic has actually communicated with insurgents, his comments indicate that some type of input has taken place. It's unclear whether that input was direct or indirect.

The news that there is an insurgent perspective is likely to provoke renewed outrage among some Iraq War veterans as well as families of military personnel killed and wounded in the conflict. Dan Rosenthal, a veteran of the war who now operates the gameslaw.net site, reacted strongly to word of Six Days in Fallujah's insurgent perspective:

Absolutely unbelievable that Peter Tamte and [creative director] Juan Benito would try to make an "entertainment" experience about a war that we're actively fighting, while soliciting advice and input on how to best kill Marines in game, from people who have worked to kill Marines in real life. The hypocrisy and double-speak coming out of Atomic's leadership is beyond unbelievable. 

 

The game is a "communications tool".....a communications tool for who? The insurgency? And then out of the other corner of their mouths, they try to pass the game off as a "telling of stories"; but that's a rude slap in the face to the approximately 100 Marines who died in the battles of Fallujah when the "story-telling" game includes Halo-style health regeneration. I'm pretty sure I don't remember that being standard issue when I was in Iraq.

GP: We're struggling to recall another game that generated this much controversy this early in its development cycle.


Comments

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

Speaking as non-US person, I would much rather play as the insurgents than another generic marine. (Albeit a named generic marine who was there.)

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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

Anything by Rockstar. There you go, there's a bunch of games that are basically BUILT on controversy

---You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.

---You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

Because everyone takes "I need to be careful about the specifics that I give...  I think all of us are curious to know why [insurgents] were there."

as "We asked them how to make an IED and will put all the blueprints in the game" (soliciting advice and input on how to best kill Marines in game, from people who have worked to kill Marines in real life.)

Well, you sort expect this kind of ranting but I would would expect better rants by now; but, who am I to think that people can grow up.

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There are only 10 types of people in this world, people who know binary and people who don't.

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There are only 10 types of people in this world, people who know binary and people who don't.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

I think the blueprints are only available to people who pre-order.

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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

Actually, now that I think about it, the pre-order bonus must be a dancing instructional video from the terrorist on the left in the image that was posted with the article.

"I like to sing-a and a dance-a, about the moon-a in the june-a!"

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

Even then, it only comes on a playing card sized peice of paper.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

From Wikipedia: "The company has developed titles such as the Close Combat series, the World at War series, as well as the V for Victory series."

 Well well well, these are the guys that injected a bit of realism into RTS's back in the day.

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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

Press and historians can interview insurgents all day long and no one gets "outraged". If they are trying to make a realistic game it monly makes sense they would talk to insurgents too. I am sure the game is going to br pro-american. Some people get their panties twisted for nothing. Freedom of speech means you don't get to tell Atomic they can't make a game about any legal thing they want.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

No one's saying they can't.  They're saying it's upsetting that they are.

I dunno...I can see this one as a legit complaint.  Interviewing the people who are killing our Marines, while they're still killing our Marines, about how they kill our Marines, for the purpose of ultimately making money off of it (yes, gaming is a COMMERCIAL endeavor)...

Yeah, I really don't see why anyone is surprised that this isn't being received well, or even thinks it's uncalled for.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

Well, the marines WERE sent in so that other individuals and groups could profit.

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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

I've heard conflicting rumours on health regeneration, however I think it's safe to say that this is one game where, should they actually go for the "realism" and the "experience" as they've so often reminded us, virtually no-health regeneration should occur of any kind. Medics can only patch you up but never fully restore you sort of deal at the most. Thankfully I'm not talking from personal experience but it would be quite a stark contrast to our normal "hide behind this wall until you're better" to see accurate wound and animation models that mirrored reality. Would this destroy the "game" portion? Perhaps, but it was one of my favourite features of the ill-fated WWII Online and if they're going out of their way to interview insurgents for the "real" angle they might as well get the perspective of "I've just been bloody shot - There's no safe area - they're still fucking shooting at me - what the hell am I supposed to do? Will I ever get to see my family again?"

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

 Because games arent art.

Just because they are

the conscious use of skill and creative imagination 

doesn't mean they are art.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

 Fail this was a reply to the above comment.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

Script fail. Understandable.

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"A Chrono Trigger is anything that unleashes its will or desire to change history!" -Gaspar

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

Casablanca, Behind the Rising Sun, Bombs Over Burma, So Proudly We Hail, Wing and a Prayer, and many, many more movies about WWII were made during the actual war.  Most of them now are considered propoganda, but still this has happened before.  This is nothing new.

Why do we have a double standard on art forms?  How can a film visualize the past but a game trivialize the past?

http://www.deathvanquished.com

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

I have no opinion on the game, but I do think that it's hypocritical to complain about a game based on the current war when there were hardly any complaints about some of the movies that came out based on the current war or even complaints about certain country music artists from Nashville making money off both this war and 9/11.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.

Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Pelicans. Even through the darkest days, this fire burns always.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

But you know, those were movies, not them thar ebil vida gaymes.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

As I recall, there were complaints about the 9/11 movie(s).

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

It doesn't surprise me that they are interviewing former (possibly current) Insurgents. However it baffles the shit out of me that they are making this information PUBLIC. I mean...what are they thinking? Are they trying to piss majority of the United States off? Oy oy...

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

It's a method of free advertising- you get a bunch of hoopla over a single product, it gets plastered all over the news for everybody to see because it's a huge controversy, and you don't have to spend another cent in advertising to let people know about it.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

This is kinda sick.  Remember that these insurgents are the same crew of zealots that were doing all those beheadings of civilians a few years back.  Unbelievable.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

*on top of what was already said*

America isn't exactly a bed of roses, either. We have some bad stuff in our own history, don't forget.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

Not to defend the zealots, but keep in mind not all insurgents are the same.  To say that all insurgents (even within this conflict) are the 'same crew' as the ones doing the beheading are like saying that the marines involved in Fallujah are the 'same crew' as the squad that took an old man from his home, gave him a shovel, executed him, and then raped/killed his daughter.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

Or alternatively, people defending an area against a western invasion/land & oil grab. Context is everything. Insurgents are not the same as extremist terrorists, despite what CNN might tell you.

Remember that the U.S. army are the same crew of zealots that were torturing prisoners in Abu Ghraib. (Spelling?)

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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

When did they say it was going to have health regeneration? Or is that pretty much a given do you think?

Funny how these people seem to think that the story should only be told from the side of the invaders and not the people resisting them.

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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

Many of the 'insurgents' were also invaders though...

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

All the more reason to try and get as much information from all sides involved as possible then.

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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

It was included in Kotaku's coverage of a press alpha demo.

I don't think the story should be told only from the side of the Americans. I think the Iraqi civilians have a very important story to tell. That does not excuse the developer for actively working with or soliciting the opinions of those who worked to kill US Marines, on a game that allows you to simulate the deaths of US Marines, while said US Marines are still in the country. That's not "entertainment". And it's certainly not their job to be a "communications tool" for the insurgency.

 

Very disappointing all in all.

-- Dan "SWATJester" Rosenthal; Executive Director, http://www.gameslaw.net

-- Dan Rosenthal

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

"That does not excuse the developer for actively working with or soliciting the opinions of those who worked to kill US Marines, on a game that allows you to simulate the deaths of US Marines, while said US Marines are still in the country. That's not "entertainment". "

Depends which country you are from. I don't have a problem shooting at marines in the context of a game.

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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

Me either. I think it'll be interesting to hear from all sides. In some ways the lack of communication between the US/West and the Middle East is part of what made the terrorists in the first place. Also has the ability to play from the insurgents side been mentioned in other places or is it just being guessed? I think that playing the insurgents would be kinda sucky actually, the individual would probably not last long in any prolonged fight.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

... I can't say I'm angry. I'm just not. To be honest, I'm alright with it. I'm pretty sure they didn't just build the Call of Duty series from the ground up with strictly American/British views taking the forefront- it was an undertaking with facts.

You want facts, you do gotta get the scoop from both sides.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says ...

If one is trying to portray a 'realistic' version of a recent historical event (which in this case remains to be seen) it is vital that the perspective of all the participants is taken into account. If it is not the portrayal will be partial at best and propoganda at worst.

I can't see how it is any more distasteful to be aware of one sides perspective as opposed to the other's.

Taking account of a view does not denote the acceptance of it.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

I'm sure lots of folks would like any story to be from their own viewpoint and their own viewpoint alone.  Everyone else's view be damned.

If there were three seperate games, each one from each of the groups's perspective, each group would be claiming that the games of the other groups are inaccurate or filled with revisionism.

It's be interesting to see a mesh of the three views in one product and how that is handled.

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

I love how the west is reacting to this. The Media outlets are in uproar! The media forget these people have stories to tell too. They aren't fighting us because they "want to", they are also fighting for a cause...A much better explained cause then our vague "Eliminate Terrorism" cause.

 

"These guys are bad, so were not allowed to talk to them, and anything they say is hypocrisy against us and therefore makes the entire thing bad."

 

I'm sorry, but I'm sticking by the Dev's here. They're creating a game, that gives both sides of the story, and the story of those in the middle. For someone going into the British Forces, it would be wrong of me to not be clued up about my opponents, and for a game to give a completely biased one way arguement would and more than likely could put people in the wrong state of mind if they do sign up. One such example is my Mothers-Friends-Boyfriend who is a 15 year Sniper of the Army. His stories are usually among the "Today, I shot this raghead straight in the head, and then his mate turned round and started looking for us but then I capped that paki bastard as well."

Oddly enough, the guy is white...And also very friendly.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

*nod* if the game were actually built to be accurate, getting the perspective of all three groups and integrating it into the story would be facinating.  A game following in the footsteps of "Flags of Our Fathers"+"Letters from Iwo Jima" would really be something.

 

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

Yes it must really be hard for the Zerg and Protoss knowing that their stories will not be told for several years after the Terrans. Blizzard must be pro-Terran and want to indoctrinate all the gamers with their pro-Terran propaganda.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

It would be easy to CREATE historical views.

It's not so easy to actually preceive events from actual participants and write a story "rationally" from the "rationale" of the perspective you're having to look through.

Who can say that a truly complete story of the Civil War/War of Northern Aggression/etc has ever been done?  I'm not familiar with a single one that takes a truly and total neutral view.

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

The internet is really bad for jokes.

I understand the importance of maintaining an independant view of an event such as Fallujah, especially when there are so many sides of the story.

I do wonder just how and in what manner they are getting information from insurgents. Are they people who fought against the US and later became allies or neutral? Are thy prisoners of war captured there? It is a really important question to ask.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

Just so long as Starcraft remains historically accurate *rolls eyes*

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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Insurgents Contributing to "Six Days in Fallujah" Says

Yeah, if the next one is ever RELEASED...

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NatirHere is a good quote from the wordpress site: "Zoe Quinn with her little twine game commands the attention to be in documentaries, to be quoted on Kotaku, as Anita Sarkeesian is claimed to be one of the 100 most influential people in the world."07/28/2015 - 4:55pm
MattsworknameAndrew: its very true what you say, but with Feminism, the toxic fringe has become the main stream face of the movment, to the point where the US rep to the un on womens issues has called feminism a toxic word.07/28/2015 - 4:55pm
Natirdirectly related to games and politics.07/28/2015 - 4:53pm
NatirThe point is that these women do very little for the gaming industry but paint it to be a very bad place. From just constant harassment from (male) gamers to just sexism in the workplace. Stuff that just isn't true. Take a look for yourself since this is07/28/2015 - 4:53pm
Andrew EisenMatt - Every group has its jerk faces. Especially groups like feminists that are so large they encompass the vast majority of the population.07/28/2015 - 4:47pm
Andrew EisenAnd I don't get the sense many if any take anyone's thoughts at face value. They seem to be listening to what they have to say, evaluating what they heard, agreeing or disagreeing and acting accordingly. Or just outright ignoring them in the first place07/28/2015 - 4:44pm
Mattsworknametoxic to it's economy07/28/2015 - 4:42pm
MattsworknameWow, im out for a day and some cool discussion happens. On the subject brought up by Natir, I think modern feminism has be come toxic, at least in it's radicalized form ,much te same as I feel about how unions went from improtant things in the us to being07/28/2015 - 4:42pm
Andrew EisenI don't know about anyone else but I'm not comfortable forming an opinion let alone drawing a conclusion without having seen even one of the allegedly harassing tweets.07/28/2015 - 4:41pm
NatirI just find it baffling that the gaming industry as a general whole take what those women say at face value... On the Canadian man story, I don't think he will be charged but I think the women will be charged with something.07/28/2015 - 4:30pm
Goth_SkunkFor reference, this is the matter to which Natir is referring: http://ow.ly/QcAch And -- small world after all -- Anita Sarkeesian is indirectly tied to it.07/28/2015 - 4:22pm
NatirIt kind of reminds me of the 3 women who took that one man (in Canada) to court because he disagreed with them on Twitter.07/28/2015 - 4:12pm
NatirThat article is the reason why I really hate a lot of feminists who just want to try and "expose" the gaming industry... It really isn't as bad as those few say it is.07/28/2015 - 4:09pm
james_fudgeNothing wrong with doing that for an interview. I was concerned the *interviewer* didn't know who the person was. I was mistaken.07/28/2015 - 4:07pm
Goth_SkunkI understand the reservation and tendency to be skeptical conducting an interview with someone on the condition of anonymity. But reading through that article, I can empathize with the request.07/28/2015 - 4:06pm
james_fudgelet me sum up what GG is 1.5 seconds instead of 15 minutes: it's a culture war.07/28/2015 - 4:05pm
E. Zachary KnightSo this guy basically says that GamerGate needs to focus more on the SJW side of things rather than the Ethics side of things. Or am I reading this wrong?07/28/2015 - 3:54pm
james_fudgeFYI: someone at TR knows who this person is.07/28/2015 - 3:44pm
james_fudgeI'm all over the map today. Sorry07/28/2015 - 3:26pm
james_fudgeNM I'll just ask them directly :)07/28/2015 - 3:19pm
 

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