Syndicated Columnist Takes a Cheap Shot at Gamers

As a gamer, should you be allowed to vote?

Syndicated political columnist George Will doesn’t think so.

Into a lengthy whinge about the wearing of denim (slow news day, George?) Will inserts this jab:

Denim is the infantile uniform of a nation in which entertainment frequently features childlike adults ("Seinfeld," "Two and a Half Men") and cartoons for adults ("King of the Hill"). Seventy-five percent of American "gamers" — people who play video games — are older than 18 and nevertheless are allowed to vote.

GP: Big thanks to several readers who tipped us to this story. Now get yourselves to Brooks Brothers so we can all dress like George Will.

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  1. 0
    the1jeffy says:

    Read my post again.  I said, not that Will is justified with that insult, but that we immediatley responded in kind.  And missed the larger thrust of the column in doing so.  It’s an out-of-touch insult, to be sure.  But, half of the comments just insulted the guy and did nothing to rebutt his point.  Your post did, painting his lament of our Peter Pan culture as a generatinal issue.  I think that’s a cop out, but hardly a position I can find fault with.

    ~~All Knowledge is Worth Having~~

  2. 0
    the1jeffy says:

    There’s a difference between "less serious" and living in a culture where entertainment is the only measuring stick.  Again, you just plain missed the "jeans as metaphor," and now can’t admit you missed it, and are thrashing about trying to justify an unjustifiable position.

    And to follow your thread, which is irrelevent, yet still wrong –  if you can’t see the sheer stupidity of buying pre-worn/torn designer jeans, you are part of the problem. 

    To be clear, I have no issue with jeans, I wear them all the time.  However, paying out the ass for the worn in ragamuffin look tells me that a person cares more for appearances than utility; more for form and not for function. It’s a sympton of a larger disease, that great segments of US culture has it’s priorities completely backward, spending countless amounts on trivialities.  Luxury isn’t wrong, and neither is spending money for things of high value.  But only spending on the appearance of value?  Stupid, and I’m not afriad to say so.

    We live in a culture where Ashton fucking Kutcher is more "popular" than CNN.  Please tell me that with all your rampant college edumacations that you can see how this parallels the decadence that heralded the fall of Rome.

    For instance take the informative post on Rome from above.  One of the historically "approved" reason for the fall of Rome was their increased reliance on mercanaries, and not the "Civic Virtue" which caused the citizenry to support the military.  The US is in a very similar situation.  Or at least one the eerily echoes it.  (Without getting too political, it’s a fact that mercanaries like Blackwater are credited with being fundemental for operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, whether you agree with the wars or not).

    ~~All Knowledge is Worth Having~~

  3. 0
    Nagaina says:

    Actually, he DOES follow up. He suggests that anything Fred Astaire would have worn is fine for men. And Ginger Rogers should be the model we ladies should adhere to in our sartorial choices.

    I reiterate: it’s not about youth. Or juvenilia. It’s about class. He is explicitly bitching about not being able to look at a person and know whether to kiss ass (because they’re better than you), greet them with a manly handshake (because they’re your peer), or sneer and make snide remarks under your breath about THOSE PEOPLE (if they’re your perceived inferior) by judging the quality or nature of their dress.

  4. 0
    Conster says:

    Really? I just thought it was a well-formed, informative comment. Considering how my Latin and Greek classes didn’t cover the Roman downfall, and my history lessons glossed over everything until the Renaissance, all I knew about the Roman downfall was that in the end, they were getting the stuffings invaded out of them, so

  5. 0
    F__ked up says:

    Its been a while since I read the classics but the fall of Rome has been attributed to many reasons.

    There are many arguments as to why they Rome fell but I think these were the most common

    The use of Mercenaries in the military
    Economics – Some historians say that the people were over taxed some say they were under taxed, other say it had something to do with how the tariff worked, or it could have been disruption of Mediterranean trade routes
    Religion – I believe it was Gibbon who believed that Christiany was being used as social control which reduced the power of the government and Roman Civic Virtue
    Technology – Other places began developing better technology which would help them win battles with the Roman army.
    The changing of the Capital – Rome was no longer became the capital for different emperors I think it was in the 3rd century.
    The split of the Roman Empire into East and west which I think lead to a civil war
    There maybe more reasons, maybe all of the reason, or a combination.

    Please read Gibbon, Pirenne, Bury, Toynbee, Burke and others to check my memory. Also please keep in mind that some of the historians writing about the fall of Rome were doing a period when the Church had tons of power forcing the historians to obfuscate their criticism on Christianity.

  6. 0
    Michael Chandra says:

    Fascinating. A clear opinion stated as a fact without any arguments or facts supporting it. Entertain me more.

    Or, I dunno, actually provide information rather than just a claim vs a guess.

  7. 0
    Ryno says:

    To your Rome comment, you couldn’t be farther from the truth. Rome fell for lots of reasons, but that definitely isn’t one of them.


    Saying that Jack Thompson is impotent is an insult to impotent men everywhere. They’ve got a whole assortment of drugs that can cure their condition; Jack, however…

  8. 0
    Dragoon1376 says:

    It’s another person viewing the world as falling apart compared to the state it was in during their youth.  It’s happened in the past, it’s happening today, and it’ll happen in the future.  No biggie.

    First secure an independent income, then practice virtue. -Greek Proverb

  9. 0
    Dragoon1376 says:

    It’s an age old lament.  Just like the people that have decried the dumbing down of English from Samuel Johnson to modern day grammar mavens.  It’s to the point that I would roll this into the grand notion of what is human nature.  Nothing to get upset about, just smile and go about your life.

    Besides, it may get to the point where we find ourselves talking about the good ol’ days and how kids don’t know a good video game from a hole in the wall.  We may be with it now but what it is does change eventually.

    First secure an independent income, then practice virtue. -Greek Proverb

  10. 0
    Shadow D. Darkman says:

    My decision on whether or not you should send this letter will directly depend on whether or not the letter is a sarcastic one. If it is, don’t send it, if there isn’t, go ahead.

    I had a similar decision when I was trading e-mails back-and-forth with Jack back in the summer of 2008. It was either take the risk of getting criminal charges filed against me (assuming he would have been able to find me as I had not yet revealed myself to him at that time), and other shit happening that I would ultimately regret, or backing off for the sake of those I care about, ensuring they wouldn’t get dragged down with me. I chose to back off, and to date it has revealed to have been the right choice.

    However, I will not force you to follow my recommendation. Chooose your own path.


  11. 0
    snkfan says:

    "Reasoned" my behind! What an idiot! 

    This proves yet again that "King Combover" has nothing else to do with his time. 

    I must admit, there’s never a dull moment when it comes to this moron. Using "Denim" as a metaphor for a "slacker society" is understandable but, for someone who is supposed to be so highly intellectual, he can do better than that! 

    I always find myself wanting to rip up his op-eds after I read them.  He has never been forward thinking and his arguments are often baseless and whiny! I can’t believe the Post continues to waste ink on this jerk year after year.  Only the always vile and abhorrent writings of Charles Krauthammer and Bill Kristol eclipse Will’s continuous diatribes of irrelevance!

  12. 0
    TBoneTony says:

    The immaturity of society is far more larger than just trying to link Videogames into the issue.

    There are so many immature people who don’t even play Videogames in the first palce.

    I would say that people like Glenn Beck for one, the entire Fox News team (or at least the people who make the news up), a certain disbarred  lawyer who has sent (gay and almost digital) porn to politicians and people in the Florida Bar and so many other politicians I can think of I know they are really immature.


    Also look at the majority of Videogamers and even though you may find yourselves a few immature people, there are allot more mature people who play Videogames all because they love Videogames to begin with.


    So I’d rather be an adult who plays Videogames rather than to be an adult who goes to the pub and drinks beer and gets drunk most of the time.

    This is not just a sign of maturity, but it is also a sign of someone making their own choices in life.

  13. 0
    gfpaperboy22 says:

    Before I mail off my response to him, I thought I’d post it here for revising.  If anyone would like to chime in, I’d appreciate it.

    Mr.George F. Will,

         After reading your editorial over the immaturity of today’s society, I would like to say that I concur with your opinion.  As a student in Sociology, I have begun noticing and observing how our society is becoming more relaxed and immature in all of our mannerisms, whether it be the way we dress or how we act.  However, your quip regarding adults over eight-teen is intriguing.  I am confused about your true meaning in the comment:

    "Seventy-five percent of American ‘gamers’ — people who play video games — are older than 18 and nevertheless are allowed to vote."

    At first glance, it looked like you were attacking an incredibly vocal minority in America.  But I soon realized that a journalist for the nationally accredited Washington Post would never be that foolish.  I then looked for a possible deeper meaning until I found what I believe to be your true point.  By immaturely calling out a group for being immature, you are in fact pointing out your own immaturities.  And in a paper about how immature our nation has become, it made complete sense that you would want to tie it all together by displaying your own faults as a human being.  The irony is spot on, truly brilliant. 

    However, if this was not the true intention, could you please let me know so I can compare view points?

    Thank you for your time.

  14. 0
    State says:

    His comments clearly show the differences between the generations. It would be interesting to know what he does in his free time. One of the issues that he has is the children and their fathers are growing closer (I imagine he still wants the father to be the quite authoritarian with little bond shared with the children). Also he forgets that society changes and as times have changed and people have more money free time becomes more accessible.

    Many of the things that he and his generation probably like to do could be considered as childish, and no doubt people of his age complained about him when he was our age saying similar things to what he says now. Card games, golf etc could all be considered childish, many of the films that he watched when he was in his 20s and 30s aimed at people his age could be considered childish (even going back further in time King Kong could be considered a childish film and that was aimed at adults). We’ll no doubt say the same about the next generation in 20 – 30 years time.

  15. 0
    Erik says:

    For all his denim bitching he doesn’t follow it up with an alternative.  So if we are not to be wearing denim what would he have us wear in his version of utopia?  Because there is no way I’m wearing a fucking tie like that.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  16. 0
    hellfire7885 says:

    The people who seem to hold onto American being "better" than recent times need ot take off the damn rose colored glasses when viewing the past.

    Adults indulged in entertainment prouduct far before video games. I guess the phonogrpah should have only been used for audible news reports and never for entertainment.

    And America has just as many problems as it does now, hardly any of them new nor caused by these new forms ofr entertaiment. His arguments can be attached ot anything. Comic books were seen as infantile, novels were seen as infantile, movies were seen as infantile.

    Again, video games are just goign through the motions of being the scapegoat for society’s problems, and this man is doing just that.

  17. 0
    hellfire7885 says:

    He likely also hates computers because now they’re used for more than their original intended purpos,e performing the work of a calculator, same for the internet, glass panels, display knives, hell, there are lots of things that serve more than practical purposes, and by his logic those are all universally bad for that reason.

  18. 0
    lizardinmycoffee says:

    But mainstream…whatever…media, magazines, and whatnot equate cool and sexy to youth. He also sees it as youthful because when jeans were worn by James Dean and the like, it was a youthful rebellion of conformity.

    Mainly, he sees it as a part of America that does not want to take responsibility and wear the business suit and the dresses. He also says in the article, "For men, sartorial good taste can be reduced to one rule: If Fred Astaire would not have worn it, don’t wear it. For women, substitute Grace Kelly." I think he is using those iconic symbols to say that is what he wants American adults to be like. Obviously in dress, but also in maturity and spirit.

    But I disagree with him completely so, meh.

  19. 0
    Meohfumado says:

    Are there not cartoons for adults in the New Yorker?  In the pages of the Wall Street Journal?  I’ve seen equal social commentary in today’s "childish" animated tv shows (Simpsons, Family Guy, Southpark) than in those political cartoons.  More often they are both more entertaining, and more poignant than their more conservative predacessors.

    "You know what I wish? I wish all the scum of the Earth had one throat and I had my hands about it."

  20. 0
    Benji says:

    Fair enough – I agree that the concept of designer jeans is odd since jeans were rugged working men’s pants – but I don’t see how that’s YOUTHFUL indulgence.  Indulgence, yes, youthful, no – people buy designer jeans because (thanks to advertising) people think the jeans make them look cool or sexy, not so much because they’re trying to recapture their youth.

  21. 0
    Meohfumado says:

    Should we really be taking fashion tips from a guy with a ridiculous comb-over like that? 

    "You know what I wish? I wish all the scum of the Earth had one throat and I had my hands about it."

  22. 0
    Valdearg says:

    "People pay out the ass for stonewashed designer jeans for the worn-in look, but then commenters here look at him askance for suggesting that this tells us something about our culture? "

    That, to me, says that some people enjoy certain things, and are willing to pay for them. Those people aren’t cuturally wrong for doing so. Is it wrong to own expensive clothes? What about an expensive car? Or is it wrong to own every game console? No, the fact is, people can choose however they spend thier money. (Before the conservatives step in here, I meant the money AFTER taxes. :)  )

    "Notice he doesn’t find fault with people who wear denim for their trade; those who wear out their jeans in labor.  Maybe then you can see his point."

    The point is, he is in the wrong for caring what other people wear or do. He should be focusing more on himself, rather than complain about how society is failing because people are more open minded and choose to be less serious and have more fun than they did in the past. Does that make them all children? Nope. It just makes them enjoy life more.


  23. 0
    lizardinmycoffee says:

    He’s not necessarily saying that jeans are a child-only form of clothing. To quote:

    "Do not blame Levi Strauss for the misuse of Levi’s. When the Gold Rush began, Strauss moved to San Francisco planning to sell strong fabric for the 49ers’ tents and wagon covers. Eventually, however, he made tough pants, reinforced by copper rivets, for the tough men who knelt on the muddy, stony banks of Northern California creeks, panning for gold. Today it is silly for Americans whose closest approximation of physical labor consists of loading their bags of clubs into golf carts to go around in public dressed for driving steers up the Chisholm Trail to the railhead in Abilene."

    As much as I disagree with his point, he is saying that it’s a symbol of youthful indulgence and completely misused from its original intended purpose.


  24. 0
    Benji says:

    Maybe he’s trying to use denim as a metaphor for youth to point out our reluctance to shed youthful habits – but it’s a stupid metaphor.  Weren’t jeans originally made famous as the preferred garb for (adult) gold miners during the California Gold Rush?  Aren’t they still favored among certain professions for being inexpensive and rugged (so they hold up to abuse pretty well, and when they don’t they’re easy to replace.)  I can see how video games and cartoons might be associated with youth, but jeans were never exclusively a child-only form of clothing. 

  25. 0
    DanJ says:

    Ok, he’s complaining that we’ve turned into an adult-child, self-indulgent society. Personally, I think he’s chosen a poor metaphor/target, but that’s not why this ended up here on GamePolitics.

    "Seventy-five percent of American "gamers" — people who play video games — are older than 18 and nevertheless are allowed to vote."

    Tao, jeffy, and anyone else who thinks Will is "right on point" most of the time… what do you think of that comment? As someone who actually makes a living creating video games, it strikes me as mildly insulting but mostly just ignorant. We get it, America’s going to pot because we refuse to grow up… but painting a picture of the "everygamer" as the classic 30-year-old-in-mom’s-basement just shows that he’s not really interested in a solution – or even in the truth of the matter. He just wants to complain about designer jeans.

  26. 0
    Conster says:

    He definitely seems to be ragging on a bit too much, actually. Way I understand, the most recent Batman movies aren’t "juvenilized", and I don’t like how he associates video games with being infantile. As for jeans, I wear them because they’re simple and comfortable. I feel smaller, more humble, when wearing black. Basically, I don’t feel like his description applies to me, so I don’t really have an opinion about the denim bit.

    And yeah, the Alzheimer crack is not nice at all.

    As for Rome: I thought their downfall was because they sought to force their civilization upon others, and eventually ticked off too many people?

  27. 0
    Kojiro says:

    While I agree with the general gist of what he is saying, I think pointing to denim, cartoons, and video games was just an age gap issue that he should have had the intelligence to see past. 

    Tell me, does this guy look like a slouch?:

    Myself, I would have called out athletic wear instead.  Sports jerseys and sweat pants are not flattering on anyone.

    At the same time, I think he is also just pushing vanity, which is what the whole modern suit had evolved from.

  28. 0
    GamesLaw says:

    Will isn’t known for being the most ethical of journalists; in fact he allegedly stole a briefing book from Pres. Carter in 1980 and gave it to Pres. Reagan before the two debated; and he’s also had problems with the "full disclosure" department about reporting on things he has a vested interest in. I tend to not pay attention to him.


    — Dan "SWATJester" Rosenthal; Executive Director,

  29. 0
    TaoJeannes says:

    It is a pretty "GET OFF MY LAWN!" whiny rant. But, like I said, most of the time Will is right on point, so I’ll grant him a little leeway.

  30. 0
    the1jeffy says:

    The ageism just bleeds off the page . . .

    And I’m talking about the comments here.

    The guy has a point, and it’s one worth taking a look at.  Games, cartoons, and jeans are used as symbols.  If you don’t get it, fine, shut up and try to figure it out.

    We look very mature, what with the Alzheimers crack being ourfirst resort.

    People pay out the ass for stonewashed designer jeans for the worn-in look, but then commenters here look at him askance for suggesting that this tells us something about our culture? 

    Notice he doesn’t find fault with people who wear denim for their trade; those who wear out their jeans in labor.  Maybe then you can see his point.

    You don’t have to like it, or agree.  But take the time to understand it before you call him a geezer.  And yes, he’s a geezer.  And probably proud of it.


    There was once a great civilization that lived for "fun."  It was called Ancient Rome.  Read up on how that ended.  I don’t want to spoil the ending for you, but Latin is a dead language for a reason.

    @Keith K

    Try reading that book again.  You missed the point.  A society that refuses to let go of, and idealizes the carelessness of youth, is destined to fail. 

    ~~All Knowledge is Worth Having~~

  31. 0
    android24 says:

    So I’m childish for playing video games and wearing jeans. He has a very original point.

    I always wear jeans. Seriously, what’s infantile about wearing something that’s comfortable and matches well? I think he just doesn’t want to change.

  32. 0
    hayabusa75 says:

    "Seventy-five percent of American "gamers" — people who play video games –"

    Thanks for clearing that one up, George.  I had a pretty good idea you weren’t referring to Tiddlywinks.  Then again, I’m not really your target audience, after all, I don’t need to mash my vegetables before I eat them.

    "De minimus non curat lex"

  33. 0
    Meohfumado says:

    George Will to young America, "Get off my lawn!!"

    Enjoy the old folks home George.  The times they are a’changin….

    "You know what I wish? I wish all the scum of the Earth had one throat and I had my hands about it."

  34. 0
    SilverMelee says:

    While I will say that jeans are an unusual metaphor to describe modern society, I have to ask;

    What’s wrong with having a society that’s fun? I mean, sure, we all gotta work sooner or later (well, most of us do, anyway…), but why should society be all work and no play? Why can’t us adults retain our inner child?

    We shouldn’t have to be forced into a "no inner child allowed EVER" policy when we hit adulthood.

    — I do more than just play games. I draw, too:

  35. 0
    F__ked up says:

    Yeah because they are losing money after making Bad Decisions. They dont have those golden parachutes and they are not making any bonuses while they are losing money money at all. /Sarcasm.

    See the examples above.

  36. 0
    the1jeffy says:

    Nice backpedal from your original diatribe.  You’ve almost convinced yourself that you were always in the right.  I don’t care if you are an effing PHD, your education hasn’t taught you how to think.

    ~~All Knowledge is Worth Having~~

  37. 0
    BrandonL337 says:

    They have a phrase for exageration to make a point, it’s called being deceptive or lying.

    There have always been motherf*ckers, there will always be motherf*ckers, but what we can’t do is let them control our motherf*cking lives. -John Oliver, December 1st, 2008

  38. 0
    Seiena_Cyrus says:

    No I just happen to not trust my government further then I can throw them…They’ve been showing a lot in recent years that they don’t care what the people actually think…they can redistrict and everything else to make sure that they aren’t replaced. Heck I learned in my Poli Sci class that most politicians won’t challenge incumbants unless it’s been a particularly horrendous year, -or- the person dies or retires, that means those idiots go unchallenged and keep their jobs simply because no one wants to try and take it from them. Instead of using a closed mind why not open it up and have a real good hard looksee and what things are like outside of your town and bubble because if you did you’d see that they have gotten a lot bolder (Specially in california) about increasing taxes and not caring about what people think of them.

  39. 0
    Dark Sovereign says:

    What they’re being paid is irrelevant to how they bankrupted the economy. Who did what, why was it a bad decision, and what were the repurcussions for the companies? I would like to remind you that greedy people do not willingly undertake actions that cause them to lose money.

  40. 0
    Dark Sovereign says:

    The "pie" argument is grade-A 100% bullshit. There is no set pie. Period. Every time a new person is born, the "pie" expands. Everytime a new good comes into play, the society grows. In the days of FDR, for instance, huge chunks of people had problems buying food and water. That issue is no longer relevant. The computer used to be a device that could only be afforded by universities, huge corporations, and the government. Now, not only are computers found everywhere in the US, but the computers we use would seem to our ancestors as something made by aliens. As time goes on, goods are produced more efficiently, and more people have more access to them. The end result is that, as time goes on, society has access to more and more luxuries.

    The issue that you so poorly attempt to articulate is that some people, the "rich" have more luxuries than the "poor". Never once did you ask why they have this money, or how they achieved it. No, instead, you think they should simply have the money taken from them and given to somebody who doesn’t know how to manage his money. Here’s a hint, they have more money because their skill set is considered more valuable than the skills of the guy working at a 7/11.

    And how are the rich taking and locking up money? Do they eat money? Do they live in houses made of money? Do they drink money? No, they SPEND money, because, go figure, money has no other purpose. If you want a part of their "pie" figure out where there spending their money and get in on the action.

    Running with your pay caps suggestion, what is more valuable: a CEO or a janitor? I’m not asking you to feel sorry for a CEO. What I am asking you to do is base your decisions on something more than ignorance. Why should the poor get any benefit from a system they aren’t paying into? 

    To be blunt, you lack knowledge of the most basic economics.

  41. 0
    Nagaina says:

    That wasn’t a metaphor. That was the straight up high-pitched whine of offended classicism playing to its natural audience — people who read the WaPo Op Ed page to have their opinions dictated to them.

  42. 0
    sirdarkat says:

     I always love this argument the rich are paying the most therefore we should feel sorry for them.  I give you my pie example.  

    You as the rich sob get 90% of the pie and I get 10% of the pie now the government comes in and says excuse me I expect 20% of those slices. Now here is where the fun comes in you cut 20% off of your slice and I cut 20 % off of my slice and lo and behold your slice is bigger.  So what do you do you cry like a 2 year old that your sister/brother didn’t have to give back as much as you had to give back who cares that your slice over all is still larger than mine by quite a bit no its all about you had to give back a piece that looks bigger when compared to mine.  That is what we call a NO SHIT SHERLOCK.  Whats even more funny is we are not including the fact that you might have already cut your piece in half and hid it from the government and then cut another chunk off claiming well its not really yours its the companies or counting the fact that the baker (company) might come in and actually pay the government for you.


    This is what we call half ass math.  Its where a person who has a larger pile tries to whine because a percent of his larger pile is ten times more than when you take a percent of mine.  I have a simple solution for this problem PAY CAPS.  A simple cap saying hey you can only be paid a certain amount more than the lowest paid employee would decrease this problem instantly … instead of 40 million a year to be the CEO you get paid 400k due to the lowest employee being paid 40k BAM now your percent going back in doesn’t upset you as much.


    (As for the hard working line I don’t consider corporate raiders hard working, and Im pretty sure by no definition is Paris Hilton hard working)

  43. 0
    F__ked up says:

    Yes they really put their time and effort working really hard to bankrupt our economy and still made over Millions dollars in bonus.

    NEW YORK (AP) — Lehman Brothers Inc. Chairman and Chief Executive Richard Fuld received compensation valued at $22.1 million in 2007, a year in which the company weathered the subprime mortgage collapse better than its rivals

    AIG said Willumstad’s target annual cash bonus was set at $8 million, and his target for annual long-term incentive pay was set at $13 million. The company said for 2008, Willumstad’s minimum annual cash bonus will be $4 million, which will be deferred until he is no longer employed by AIG.

    Willumstad is also to receive a one-time $24.5 million restricted stock award, to vest over four years, among other benefits.

    WASHINGTON – SEPTEMBER 20: The chiefs of the nation’s two largest mortgage lenders reaped roughly $30 million in salary, incentives and other perks last year, despite setting their banks on courses which now may require government bailouts.Daniel Mudd (L) president and CEO of Fannie Mae and Richard Syron (R)…
    WASHINGTON – SEPTEMBER 20: Daniel Mudd (L) president and CEO of Fannie Mae and Richard Syron (R) chairman and CEO of Freddie Mac listen to questions during a House Financial Services Committee hearing on Capitol Hill September 20, 2007 in Washington DC. The committee is hearing testimony about the problems with mortgage foreclosures.
    (Mark Wilson/Getty Images)
    Daniel Mudd, the CEO of Fannie Mae, received $11.6 million in salary, stock and other compensation for 2007. Richard Syron, CEO of Freddie Mac, took home about $18.3 million last year.

    In addition to Syron’s salary, stock options and a $3.45 million bonus, Freddie Mac paid for a number of other perks for Syron, such as a car and driver, a home security system, travel costs for his wife, even $100,000 to pay his lawyer to negotiate his employment contract with the bank.

    Chesapeake Energy Corp. Chief Executive Officer Aubrey McClendon has been awarded a $75 million bonus as part of a new 5 year agreement to remain at the helm of the U.S’s largest independent producer of natural gas, despite the tremendous decline in the company’s shares during 2008.

    Thats like giving a teen an aston martin for failing out of school

  44. 0
    Seiena_Cyrus says:

    Just wanna point out I’m Utilitarian…so get over that…second of all yer an idiot if you took that literal. Ever heard of Exageration to make a point…I could say that bread will cost 10 dollars a loaf with 99.9% of it being tax and it’d be the same thing…and yer way too trusting…never trust your government not to take every last dime you have…and also mathmatically with several trillion in debt…taxes -have- to go up by leaps and bounds to pay for it…the money has to come from somewhere it won’t magically appear outta no where and they still gotta pay for all those other government programs too…so yeah it can mathmatically happen….under republican or Democratic rule it -CAN- happen. Tyrants do it all the time and with as complacent as our country has gotten with it’s government a few more years they could be tyrants…you have to think outside the box…Tyrants come from somewhere they dun just magically appear and oppress people most of the time.

  45. 0
    Dark Sovereign says:

    That 1% of America pays the bulk of your taxes, and thus is responsible for the governmental benefits you enjoy. In fact, they’re "hard working" too. That’s how they got all that money: the put forth time and effort into learning skills valued by businesses. You can’t keep wealth you don’t know how to use. Period. Furthermore, how has the upper class been fucking you over? 

  46. 0
    Ashton says:

    This has to be the dumbest comment I’ve read here. People like you are basically whining because the government now no longer represents the 1% of America that are born with a silver spoon in their mouth and represents the rest of us who are hard working, lower-to-middle class citizens who keep getting fucked over by the upper class.

    Taxes have never been that bad, they never will be that bad, and if they ever were to get that bad the entire economy would crumble overnight. But then, I wouldn’t expect anything more than hypothetical lies from people like you.

  47. 0
    BrandonL337 says:


    Thank you I couldn’t have said it better myself…

    …Well maybe if I actually cared enough to form a response to such blatant idiocy

    There have always been motherf*ckers, there will always be motherf*ckers, but what we can’t do is let them control our motherf*cking lives. -John Oliver, December 1st, 2008

  48. 0
    Valdearg says:

    You aren’t familiar with sarcasm, are you?

    I caught the metaphor, and still thought his argument was Bullshit. In fact, I thought it was just as pointless as using the Object Jeans, so in my response, I don’t differentiate between the two.

    Thats ok though, keep avoiding the real issue at hand. Really, focus on the percieved notion that I didn’t graduate from 5th grade.. Edit: /Sarcasm

    Edit: Just to keep you on track, I think I’ll start putting /sarcasm after each sarcastic comment I make. That way, I won’t confuse your little brain meats..

  49. 0
    TaoJeannes says:

    "I’m seeing above, and not seeing anything that would make me a ‘doofus’."

    You are a doofus because you think Will is actually talking about denim rather than using it as a metaphor to illustrate a larger point.

  50. 0
    Valdearg says:

    No, I caught Jeans as a Metaphor. I know what a metaphor is and all that garbage. In fact, my comments about how "Jeans" aren’t the cause of this situation still stand, because Jeans are a metaphor. That being said, My point was that having a society that isn’t stuffy and is willing to be comfortable and have fun isn’t exactly a problem.

    Oh, by the way, I’m a college grad. So, drop your "get an education" shtick and ad hominem arguments for something with a little more meat.

  51. 0
    the1jeffy says:

    What a diatribe.  You are still a doofus.  You missed the "Jeans as metaphor," idea.  F- Repeat Junior High.

    ~~All Knowledge is Worth Having~~

  52. 0
    Neeneko says:

    Most of the people talking about armed revolution don’t know enough math to understand the tax system in the first place, otherwise they would have revolted when Regan was in charge instead.

  53. 0
    Valdearg says:

    To turn your words against you: You are a "Doofus" (I prefer ignorant moron) for thinking that taxes will get that bad in the first place. Regardless of what you seem to think, the government is NOT going to plunge this nation into poverty, and its NOT going apply a 99.9% (WTF?!) Tax rate on Americans. You are an Idiot for believing it will.

    My god, taxes are about 60% of what they were in the CLINTON era, and the world didn’t end then, either! You guys are making a big deal out of nothing. In fact, I’ll restate that. You are making a big deal out of the fact that 60% of Americans DISAGREE with you, and you guys aren’t going to get your way for another 4, hopefully 8, 12, or 16 years! Get over it.

    You LOST, and no amount of Socialist Bashing, Obama Bashing (Which is exactly what these "protests" were), or government bashing is going to change that.

    At least we can agree on one thing: Jeans weren’t the cause of the current social situations.

  54. 0
    Seiena_Cyrus says:

    Here’s one…if you aren’t paying attention to why people are talking about armed revolutions and such then you are a doofus…or just want your kids and grandkids and yourself to pay like 100 bucks for a loaf of bread and 99.9% of that being tax placed by the government to support not you but people that feel they don’t -need- to work (and that’s not counting all that’s counting most and I have right to say that because most of my ex-friends are on Welfare and in better health then me)

  55. 0
    Valdearg says:

    I’m seeing above, and not seeing anything that would make me a "doofus." (Who uses that word, by the way?) My comment was on target, and topical. Not to mention everything I said was True. This country has bigger problems than "Demon Denim." My examples were just that, examples of my argument.

  56. 0
    clear says:

    Despite the abundance of "scientific discovery" headlines, science is a long process, especially in medicine. Every avenue has to be repeatedly checked and independantly confirmed before discoveries can even be considered valid. That’s even before attempting to put effort into researching their applications in "cures."

    Let me remind you of the Cold Fusion debacle. It’s clear now that the researchers involved did discover some kind of odd phenomenon during their experiments, but it was not the holy grail of Cold Fusion they so vehemently claimed. The rush to announce their results lead them to drastically overstate their case, harming the credibility of other such research to present day.

  57. 0
    clear says:

    Because many of those new "adult stem cell" sources produce:

    1) non-immunoneutral stem cells (i.e. not usable for transplant to other adults)

    2) remanent viral DNA within the stem cells, a byproduct of returning the adult cells to a usable state. This can lead to malfunctioning mature cells.

    Understand: I don’t think one branch of stem cell production is better than any other, and I respect the moral controversy that surrounds stem cell research. I just think, as with all fields of scientific inquiry, that we should pursue all our options.

  58. 0
    clear says:

    While I agree with the majority of your statement, it is most definitely possible to "’interpret’ something loosely."

    The situation is akin to seeing a deck of cards spread out over the surface of a table. The "strictest" interpretation would see the cards as individuals (e.g. 10 of Spades, Jack of Hearts), while the "loosest" interpretation would see the deck as a single entity. In between these two view are a host of middle grounds (Blacks, Diamonds, Royals, etc.).

    Now, I would argue that some of these views are a little far-fetched (Prime Numbers for example), but they are not necessarily "projections" of what’s really there.

  59. 0
    BrandonL337 says:

    Until you learn what socialism actually is I will not consider your argument valid.  Oh of course I wanted to get high, it didn’t have anything to do with Bush royally fucking this country up/endsarcasm go fuck yourself Austin.

    There have always been motherf*ckers, there will always be motherf*ckers, but what we can’t do is let them control our motherf*cking lives. -John Oliver, December 1st, 2008

  60. 0
    Valdearg says:

    It is the duty of the courts not only to interpret laws as they apply to the constitution, (which they do, regardless of whether they adhere to a strict interpretation or a loose one.) and to protect americans from unconstitutional laws. So, your assertion that its not thier duty to decide which laws should and should not exist is 100% incorrect.

  61. 0
    Dark Sovereign says:

    I don’t have the specifics, so I can’t tell how valid the wiretappings were. I feel that if they had specific evidence that these guys were aiding/were terrorists it wouldn’t be that hard to obtain a warrant.

    What you "believe" exists and what do exist are two totally seperate issues. The only way that people can communicate is if there is an agreed upon meaning of the words they are using, in the time that the words are used. Meanings shift over time, but once spoken, or written, the meanings of the spoken or written words do not change. The Federalist Papers say the same things they did 200 years ago. The implications have changed, and the ease with which the words can be read has changed, but the words and their meanings have not.

    If you believe that people have a right to such and such, and have a good case to support it, then it shouldn’t be hard to get the laws changed to reflect that. Relying on an unelected panel of 9 judges to decide what the laws of our society are violates representative democracy and replaces it with effective tyranny.

    A law says what a law says. It is the duty of the legislature to decide what the laws are. It is the duty of the executives to approve and enforce the laws. It is the duty of the judges to decide how the law applies to a certain situation. It is not the duty of the judges to decide which laws should and should not exist, but to decide whether the laws on the books can be applied in the situation the judges are ruling on.

  62. 0
    Dark Sovereign says:

    Which has nothing to do with Clinton’s fiscal restraint. Just because he didn’t spend every dollar he got doesn’t mean that he was restrained.

  63. 0
    Valdearg says:

    Considering that I am of the group that supports a broad interpretation of the constitution,

    Pretty much supports what rights I believe exist, the right to privacy being one of them.

    Also, just because it hasn’t happened to me (to my knowledge, considering they don’t exactly have to announce that stuff) doesn’t mean warrentless wiretapping doesnt happen to innocent people. The definition of "Suspected" when used in conjunction with the word "Terrorist" can be twisted into many, many different meanings.

    Considerign the most recent (irrelevant) flap about Vet’s being the target of suspected domestic terrorism (A broad, and relatively incorrect summary of the DHS report) you should know damn well that suspicion can encoumpass even the most innocent of people.

  64. 0
    Dark Sovereign says:

    No. He didn’t. In fact, he was the first president to fund stem-cell research. Stem cell research still occurred during his term. In fact, a new, non-babykilling method of harvesting stem cells was found during Bush’s terms. Embryonic stem-cell research wasn’t banned either. What WAS banned was the creation of new embryonic stem-cell lines.

    By the way, what diseases has our two-decade long research of stem-cells cured? Why should embryonic stem-cell research still occur when a new, cheap, and non-controversial method of harvesting stem-cells now exists? 

  65. 0
    Valdearg says:

    "Furthermore, not a socialist does not equal "blue dog". Blue Dog Democrats are fiscal restraint advocates."

    Because we didn’t, you know, have a budget surplus at the end of Clinton’s Presidency..

  66. 0
    Dark Sovereign says:

    Where does the Constitution protect the "right to privacy"? It respects private property certainly, such as in the 3rd and 4th amendments, but that doesn’t mean it respects privacy. I’ve thus far neither seen nor heard of an amendment which says "the right to privacy shall not be infringed".

    And warrantless wiretapping counts as stomping all over your rights? One right is not pluralized you know. Were you wiretapped? How many people were wiretapped, and why? Last I heard, the wiretapping occured with people who were either a supsected/known member of a terrorist group or speaking to the same.

  67. 0
    Dark Sovereign says:

    I’m not making an argument. You are. What I’m doing is called being the devil’s advocate. Platforms, by the way do not equal actions taken. Obama promised an end to partisanship, a post-racial society, and an end to politics as usual, and fiscal responsibility. He has thus far shut Republicans out of the decision making processes, tossed aside Republican solutions, refused to chastise racialists in the balck community, has passed at least two bills with egregious pork, and appointed lobbyists to high positions.

    Socialism comes in degrees and individual policies. A bill that asserts government control over a price or wages (such as minimum wage) is socialist. A government that takes private property "for the common good" is being socialist. You don’t have to know that your stomping all over private property rights to be a socialist. The question is how many socialist actions make a person a socialist. I don’t know if Bill Clinton would qualify. Today’s usage equates the term who believes in wealth redistribution or advocates positions that redistribute wealth.

    Furthermore, not a socialist does not equal "blue dog". Blue Dog Democrats are fiscal restraint advocates.

  68. 0
    Valdearg says:

    Sec. 201. Authority to intercept wire, oral, and electronic communications relating to terrorism.

    Right to privacy, anyone?

    Edit: Ok, so apparently the link doesn’t offer the information I wanted. I’ll have to see if I can find the actual Information that I read about wiretapping civilians without notice or cause..

  69. 0
    Valdearg says:

    1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

    2 a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

    3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done


    Clinton’s 1996 Platform. Note how he doesn’t think there is no private property, and note how he never tried to commandeer private means of production for the government.

    Bill Clinton was not a socialist.

    (Oh, BTW, if you are going to make counter arguments calling out my "Baseless" accusations, maybe you should provide specific facts and information about why you believe counter to my point..)


  70. 0
    G-Meister says:

    "He signed NAFTA…"

    I would like to point out that he signed NAFTA as a way to make a deal with the Republican house and senate that were pushing it so hard, so that he could get other legistlation he wanted brought to his desk.

  71. 0
    Dark Sovereign says:

    How exactly did he violate your rights? How did he force science to take a back seat to religion? Or, more to the point, when are you going to say something that isn’t an Obama talking point? 

  72. 0
    Dark Sovereign says:

    You provided no argument to support your point. How was he a "blue dog"? Why? indeed your contention that he "cared about people down on their luck" would counteract your claim that he was not a socialist. Why? Because the typical contention of a socialist is that the people fired are just as valuable as the people still in jobs.

  73. 0
    Valdearg says:

    "Which is why he will now be doing the bitch work.  Not because I don’t like Obama (I don’t), but because he seems incapable of forming a REAL opinion based on logic."

    Talk about opening yourself up to a employee discrimination lawsuit..

  74. 0
    Valdearg says:

    "After 8 years, people were sick and tired of socialism."

    Hah..hahaa..hahahahahha.hahahahahaahaa… Austin, you’ve made my day..

    Clinton, a SOCIALIST?! Hahahahahaha.. Boy you guys are just willing to attach the "S" word to everything nowadays, aren’t you. I gotta say, every time I hear it, you guys loose another notch on the credibility scale. Obama could be considered, by a far stetch, a socialist. But CLINTON?

    Newsflash: Clinton was one of the more moderate democrats. He came from a Southern State, and honestly, was best described as a Blue Dog. Just because he cared about people who are down on thier luck doesn’t make him a socialist.

    Boy, you really need to turn off Hannity, Limbaugh, and Fox.

  75. 0
    Krono says:

    Oh no, so we all have stem cells for research: let’s face it, companies aren’t interested in curing jack shit.  It makes no difference.  They just want to find a ‘treatment’ that will slowly drain your wallet while you die just a bit slower.

    No, companies are plenty interested in curing various things. It’s for profit, not altruism, but cures for various different cancers are hardly different from the various anti-biotics in that regard.


  76. 0
    Austin_Lewis says:

    Here’s a little tip for you: the CIA has been torturing people forever.  Ever since the Cold War started at the end of WW2.  If you didn’t realize it, you really shouldn’t be allowed to operate a motor vehicle or drink intoxicationg liquors.  I’ll bet money that its still going on.  Just because its not publicized, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. 

    He made science and ‘progress’ take a backseat to everything else?  He helped get us on the right path to the best source of energy: NUCLEAR (nukular, lol)!  I know, that’s not the kind of progress many sheep wanted, but deal with it.  Oh no, so we all have stem cells for research: let’s face it, companies aren’t interested in curing jack shit.  It makes no difference.  They just want to find a ‘treatment’ that will slowly drain your wallet while you die just a bit slower.

    The economy collapsed in no small part due to the help of our lovely democrat controlled congress, which, when approached about changing some policies in the banking department, called the dissenters racists and ignored the problem. And the, under pressure to do something and having nothing else he wanted to accomplish, he signed a lame duck piece of legislation bailing the banks out (giving money to banks with no strings attached, because people like Obama suggested that it was so important they needed the money right away).  President Bush, for the last 4 years, bore the brunt of the bullshit for what the congress and senates did.

    Why did Bush get elected?  The people were sick of a president who wasted our time and money trying to hide from his scandals.  He sold out 120 of the best soldiers in the country at the start of his first term, and he had a hard time crawling out form under that.  He cut the military’s budget to ridiculously low amounts.  He signed NAFTA and the useless AWB, and overall wasted the country’s money on programs that didn’t help anyone except the lazy.  After 8 years, people were sick and tired of socialism.

    Of course, your generation then hops on that idiotic socialism bandwagon.  You should go read a book called The Road to Serfdom by Hayek.  Great book.  Then we can come back and have a real conversation.

  77. 0
    sirdarkat says:

    Yes yes I only voted for Obama for the Pot, who cares Im allergic to it and it will send me to the hospital its all about the POT.

    Or it might have been the fact that Bush eroded my civil liberties; Cheney wiped his ass with the Bill of Rights and the Constitution at the same time; Due Process was denied to the very people who should have been given it to show not only can they not change us but our resolve to treat all humans equally cannot be easily broken; Science taking a back seat to religious ideology as if we lived in the Dark Ages; Common Sense and Logic being flushed down the toilet for scare tactics and fear mongering; A War that had nothing to do with actually protecting America beyond daddy wanting a guy dead;  Committing acts that not just 30 years ago we considered to be war crimes (water boarding if you are lost on this one).  Do I need to go on?


    But yes the youth only voted for Obama for the Pot.

  78. 0
    Krono says:

    but because he seems incapable of forming a REAL opinion based on logic.

    I do hope you’ve got more evidence of inability to use reasoning and logic on their part than that. Ability to generate a well formed political opinion, or eloquently express it does not necessarily equate to job competance, or vice versa in my experience.


  79. 0
    Valdearg says:

    "P.S. I considered the pros and cons of voting for each, looked at their voting records and didn’t make up my mind until Palin opened her mouth and made me afraid…"

    Amen to that one.. That woman was scaaaaarrry. I mean, who else, aside from radical muslims, really thinks that the Iraq War is a "Holy War"?!?

  80. 0
    Dark Sovereign says:

    Actually, it’s still correct. All authority of the court on consitutional matters derives from the fact that the Constitution is the highest law in the land. Thus, if enforcing a law would violate the freedoms protected under the constitution, the law is rendered unenforceable by the courts. What your advocating is inventing clauses of the Constitution out of whole cloth. You can’t "interpret" something loosely. That’s projecting, not interpreting. Interpreting is the act of determining what the words used mean.

  81. 0
    shady8x says:

    Our generation elected Obama because republicans authorized torture, started wars based on who’s dad that country tried to kill and made things like science and progress take a backseat to everything else… oh and then the economy collapsed during the election, while a republican was still president… sure it wasn’t a very educated decision (and anyone with a brain should have known that ‘hope & change’ simply ment- ‘not as bad as the last guy or McCain/Palin’)

    but your generation elected Bush just because Clinton slept around…

    so, sorry but, it seem to me like our generation is a few (thousand) times better at decision making than yours…


    P.S. I considered the pros and cons of voting for each, looked at their voting records and didn’t make up my mind until Palin opened her mouth and made me afraid…

  82. 0
    Austin_Lewis says:

    I’m sure it has nothing to do with the fact that most of the people who voted for Obama had nothing to say about him or McCain but ‘Obama will bring change and legalize marijuana and McCain’s too old to be president’.  That’s an actual, word for word, quote of what one of my paid interns had to say to me.  Which is why he will now be doing the bitch work.  Not because I don’t like Obama (I don’t), but because he seems incapable of forming a REAL opinion based on logic.

    Seriously, the election made your generation look like a bunch of drones.  Drones who repeated ‘hope and change’, only to find that there was neither to be had here.

  83. 0
    Vake Xeacons says:

    First they complain that our generation doesn’t vote, and now they’re complaining we do?

    Our generation has been stereotyped as politically numb and apathetic for over a decade, and now that the youth have activated ourselves, they complain because we’re not nessessarily on their side.

  84. 0
    Ryno says:

    I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.


    Saying that Jack Thompson is impotent is an insult to impotent men everywhere. They’ve got a whole assortment of drugs that can cure their condition; Jack, however…

  85. 0
    the1jeffy says:

    What?  Where is ANY of that referenced in the column?  Segregation had nothing to with suits/hats, and neither do jeans.  Quite frankly, your bringing that whole, all Conservative columnists are 1950’s era stereotypes, is frankly even more stereotyped and biased than Will’s comment about gamers.

    ~~All Knowledge is Worth Having~~

  86. 0
    wii_charles says:

    Mr. Will is quite correct, we were much better off when men wore suits and hats.  It was a lovely time when African-Americans had their own drinking fountains, people could lose their jobs for being suspected to have at some point in their life had some sort of affiliation with a leftist political organization and doctors would offer their patients cigarettes to calm their nerves.  These denim wearing, games playing moderns have run this country down the drain, what with their black presidents and women CEOs and all that sort of nonsense.  Thank God we have George Will to point out what’s really important.

    Charles Herold

    Wii Guide

  87. 0
    Doomsong says:

    "..and stop those damn kids from skatebording on the sidewalk!!"

    Thats the audio that didn’t get recorded…

    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" – Benjamin Franklin

  88. 0
    Daidoji_Tangen says:

    1. He was talking about jeans both as a symbol and an actuality.  No doubt he seriously looks down on people who wear jeans. So, anyone calling him on bashing people wearing jeans is still making a point.

    2. He suggests women should dress like an actual princess. Seriously, a princess.

    3. I also wonder about people who are still hard working manual labor men and women.  What should they do?  He acts like they’re a thing of the pass.  Are they childish for wearing jeans instead of a dead star or a princess?

    4. This is a classic example of the old attacking the young for being young and different.  No different than in the 1920’s when people were afraid jazz music was going to corrupt the youth of the day.  The examples of dress he uses are both dead and have been for a while I believe.  I have heard the name Fred Astaire but have no idea who he is.

    5. I have no doubt that George Will would be happy if "gamers" were not allowed to vote.  Of course, I have no doubt that he doesn’t want a lot of people with the right to vote.  He is an elitist that looks down on the majority of us.

    6.  I think his final words are key.  He blames it on the French Revolution.  I think he would be quite happy in Pre-Revolutionary France.  The wealthy elite prosper and were considered superior by nature to the lower classes.  He seems to miss those days.

    7. Write a letter to your editor if they published this.  Express your opinion (whatever it is).  It’s always good to get a free exchange of ideas going.

  89. 0
    Ratros says:

    Guess cheap and comfortable shouldn’t be taken into account….


    I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"

  90. 0
    londinio says:

    I hate anti-Americans. This guy, Michael Moore, and Jack Thompson really need to stop taking whiffs of their own egos. America is the greatest country in the world until we take advantage of our rights. Soon as that happens, something is wrong with us.

  91. 0
    Nagaina says:

    Sorry, but…no.

    That wasn’t a comment on how our culture has become juvenile and self-indulgent.

    That was a comment on how our culture has ceased to worship at the altar of class division as an indicator of personal worth. He might as well be bitching about the revocation of medieval sumptuary laws.

  92. 0
    Ryno says:

    Shouldn’t there be a picture of Abe Simpson instead of George? It would really fit the motif.

    Edit – and for all the people saying it’s a metaphor: Whether or not it’s a metaphor, it’s still what it is. If I make a giant statue of a limp penis as a metaphor for the state of the economy, the decline of morality, ethics, personal responsibility, what have you, the fact of the matter is it’s still a statue of a giant penis. And what we have here are the complaints of an old man that things aren’t the same as they were when he was young.


    Saying that Jack Thompson is impotent is an insult to impotent men everywhere. They’ve got a whole assortment of drugs that can cure their condition; Jack, however…

  93. 0
    F__ked up says:

    There is a quote I dont know who its by but it rings true.

    "When criticizing the youth remember the generation that raised them"

    Also maybe read up on some Cultural Studies… I believe the term is Cultural hegemony, where society can be rule (dominated, governed) by one of its social class.

    It is rather funny that he used Denim as his example because I remember my professor using Denim as the example of Cutural Hegemony. I am pulling this from memory but Denim was first worn by labors who found the fabric perfect for their type of work. At this time the dominate social class were labors so for the upper class to act like they were of that class they began wearing Denim. Then when the style was to wear Denim with holes in the knees because it showed u did work the upper class started buying Denim with the holes. (btw I believe the process in which minor social class are able to buy, forge, or replicate the dominate social class is called hegemonic consumption).

    It can be seen through out american history where the minority social class try to act like the dominate social class or what they believe to be the dominate social class. Some people even argue that its happening on a global scale due to the easy of communication (global hegemony).

  94. 0
    Stealthguy says:

    Sorry, guess you never heard of the term "wrongful imprisonment". Honestly, do you know how stupid that sounds? Are the worlds issues black and white? Yes, according to you. Where the hell does that leave the rest of us. Where the fuck is your proof? Show it to me, now.

  95. 0
    Valdearg says:

    I dont need specific sources to know what I’ve seen and lived through. Anecdotal evidence, in many situations, is all that is availible. Just because it isn’t necessarily admissible in the court of law doesn’t mean its not true.

  96. 0
    Dark Sovereign says:

    And I love how you’re asserting that reality is such and such without any solid, concrete proof. In our system, the burden of proof lies on the accuser(s). Would we convict somebody of a murder without proof? Would we convict somebody of theft without proof? No.

    Hannity does raise a valid point: if you can’t provide an example of where he lied then you have made a baseless accusation that would hurt his credibility regardless of its validity. That’s called defamation of character, libel, or slander. He may lie, he may not, but if your going to accuse somebody of lying, you’d best have a good reason for it, or else it’s you whose lying, not him.

    So your excuse for blatant misrepresentation boils down to "I don’t want to check"? Is that really the best you can come up with? Things that are self-evident are not difficult to find. They don’t require time to look up, and they don’t require much effort.

    "Put up or shut up". That’s a good idea. Why don’t you? I’m asking you for information, checking what you say and questioning it. Maybe I’m discrediting you. Maybe I’m not. I’m not attempting to credit or discredit.

  97. 0
    Valdearg says:

    I love how you seem to think picking apart arguments made on this forum by asking for specific examples when, in reality, you know that thats not a realistic request. Rather than be picky, why not add something to the conversation?

    I, for one, can tell you about what I’ve read, seen, heard, and pondered without requiring the use of annotated footnotes. Your arguments are similar to the ones where Sean Hannity defends himself against accusations of lying and exaggerating by saying "Cite me specific examples! When, exactly, did I lie?" When anyone with a half a brain knows he misinforms and exaggerates all of the time. (I’d be able to cite examples there, too, if I had his full history of program transcripts)

    If I happened to have the "Big book of everything that ever happened.. ever" with me, I might be willing to spend the time to cite specific examples, but I dont. So, rather than blatantly trying to discredit me by asking me to provide specific examples of stuff that, honestly, I don’t have the time to look up, in order to please you, maybe you could provide arguments counter to the ones that you seem to disagree with?

    In essence: "Put up, or Shut up"

  98. 0
    Dark Sovereign says:

    Our last election would prove that the generation is less educated because most of the arguments made in favor of Obama or against McCain or vice verse had nothing to do with an understanding of the issues, nothing to do with actual policy suggestions, and everything to do with cheap emotion. Pretty much every argument I saw articulated for Obama was an airy talking point.

    I’m sure med school was difficult. Doesn’t mean that your fathers and mothers had less responsibility or worked less. You grew up in the most affluent society in history. You have more luxury and more freedom than pretty much anyone. Bad comes with good and good comes with bad.

    "[he] was the one who started the bailouts" If Bush’s bailouts were a bad idea then Obama’s bailouts are a bad idea. Obama’s "stimulus" is far bigger than Bush’s too. "nationalized an insurance company" Obama is nationalizing a car company and asking for power to take over any institution the administration feels necessary. "added a 17 trillion dollar drug entitlement program" Where did that number come from? "no child left behind" This says nothing. Was it a bad idea? Did it fail? Why is calling something "No Child Left Behind" bad?  "wiretapped citizens without warrarnts" How many people were wiretapped? Why? This was indeed unconsitutional in the strict sense, but may fall within wartime powers. "created secret internment camps in international waters behind the reach of our justice system" Allegedly. Any facility controlled by the US governments lies within its laws. The only way to have such camps is to give authority of the prisoners in the camps to foreign governments. "allowed his vice president to live in a nether world between the executive and legislative branch" Which is exactly where the Vice President lies. He is an executive who is given one official power: under article I, the Vice President is the president of the Senate, meaning that he can execute any parliamentary procedures that would be executed by a pro-tempore president. He may be given other duties (though not authority, which must be ratified by Congress) by the President. What did Cheney do that pissed Stewart off though?

    Incidently, I don’t agree with bailouts or nationalization. No government is capable of running a business wisely, and the best way to keep greed in check is with risk. Risk is destroyed by bailouts and nationalization.

  99. 0
    Galthromir says:

    Quoting Jon Stewart as an accurate source of information…Shadow! I need a facepalm stat!

    Although, I do enjoy both him and Colbert, just not as a citable source of information.

    On a somewhat different note, when will peopler realize that the current situation is not a result of either party solely? It is equally the fault of both. Furthermore, it is the lifetime politicians that have grown to "rule" this country that have done so. After all, in you have a 95% incumbancy rate, why should you seek to represent your constituents when you can use your position to better yourself?

  100. 0
    Ashton says:

    Why would our last election prove that my generation is ‘less educated’? Because we voted for Obama, whom you apparently disagree with? I don’t see how intelligence and beliefs have any correlation. In middle school people called me ‘retarded monkey boy’ without any provocation merely because I thought evolution was a viable theory over Creationism.

    Yes, I know what stresses my mother and father went through. Just let me say that being discriminated against by literally all my peers from age 4 due to both race and religious belief, as well as pressures from parents to do well in school, then going through med school is not a tiptoe through the tulips. And yes, I am aware that there are plenty of older people who went through even more stress in their younger lives. I am neither denying this nor am I belittling their accomplishments. I am saying that your average American youth has more responsibilities placed on them nowadays.

    As for Bush, let me take a line from Jon Stewart: "…[he] was the one who started the bailouts, nationalized an insurance company, added a 17 trillion dollar prescription drug entitlement program, had a government mandated public school initiative literally titled, no child left behind, wiretapped citizens without warrants, created secret internment camps in international waters behind the reach of our justice system, and allowed his vice president to live in a nether world between the executive and legislative branch…"

  101. 0
    zel says:

    Nice find, made me laugh 😀


    I am a signature virus, please copy and paste me into your signature to help me propagate.

  102. 0
    Dark Sovereign says:

    Where, pray-tell, does that money come from? Who said that you "didn’t deserve to live"? I’ve yet to see anybody on either side make any such an argument. The government doesn’t pay it’s debts as it stands. Why do you think it’ll pay them when there’s more people covered? Does it interest you in any way that all of the socialized medicine attempts in the United States (Maine, Massachusetts, Hawaii) have thus far failed horribly? 

    What will happen if the government takes over healthcare is a)unemployment, because an entire industry will be destroyed, and the government can’t compensate, b) rationing of care, because total healthcare cost doesn’t change depending on what agency is paying, so the only way to control debt is to reduce the amount of money spend on treatments and screenings and c)stonewalling of projects meant to cure currently uncurable diseases, which is what those drug companies do with the profits they make and d)declining quality in all hospitals, as hospitals use their profits to replace damaged equipment, get new equipment, hire new doctors, and give raises to existing doctors.

  103. 0
    Valdearg says:

    Yes, however, if the Government chooses to use tax revenue to support helping pay for health care that myself and 47 million other people can’t afford. I’d support it, regardless of the fact that some people don’t seem to think I deserve a chance to live, should I ever be stricken with an illness I can’t afford to be treated for.

  104. 0
    Dark Sovereign says:

    You have to pay for healthcare no matter the system your using. In fact, if you want something more truthful, Medicaid and Medicare non-payment are far more responsible for rising medical costs than anything else.

  105. 0
    Valdearg says:

    Hey, austin, I work 9-10 hour days as well. And I can’t afford healthcare. If I get cancer or break my leg, who will take care of me without putting me in insurmountable debt?

    Honestly, who says health care should be only for the people who can afford it? I’ve not done anything wrong, or immoral, and I work a full time job to make my living. I’m not lazy, nor am I a criminal. So, why shouldn’t I have access to quality, affordable health care?

    I do agree with you on the lawsuit thing, though. People really need to stop being stupid like that.

  106. 0
    Krono says:

    Stop letting unions raise the fucking standards, and damn sure don’t let the government do it.

    Which standards would those be? The ones that say that reasonable services are covered? Or the ones that demand an insurance that pays the doctors well enough that they’re actually willing to accept it?


  107. 0
    Glasofruix says:

    I mean, your tax money is not going to a health care system, like in european countries. If we stop paying taxes we wont have healthcare anymore.

  108. 0
    Austin_Lewis says:

    Beg your pardon?  I have great health care.  But then again, I work 10 hour or more days (most of the time) at a job that requires a degree.

    You want a solution to the health care problem?  Stop letting unions raise the fucking standards, and damn sure don’t let the government do it.  There’s no difference in a nurse or a nurse practitioner except what kind of liability they have and a few hours more of sitting in a classroom.  Oh, and stop letting every jackass sue the medical industry.  People die in hospitals.  Get over it America.

  109. 0
    lumi says:

    Empty logic FTL.  I’m sure the spending done by the new administration had NOTHING to do with the economic clusterfuck that built up during the previous administration.

  110. 0
    Valdearg says:

    "It’s fine though.  Another year and we’ll have some new people in the house."

    Yup, and the Dems will have a larger majority than they already do, thanks for pointing that out! :)

  111. 0
    Austin_Lewis says:

    Yeah, what with their history of terrible spending… wait, no, sorry, 1.2 trillion in deficit over 8 years versus 1.85 trillion in 1 year…


    It’s fine though.  Another year and we’ll have some new people in the house.

  112. 0
    Valdearg says:

    Talk about a scary concept..

    Though, honestly, I doubt anyone with the name "Bush" will get anywhere near the White House in the next 50 years, at least.. LOL

  113. 0
    Vake Xeacons says:

    And King of the Hill did have a more mature funny than most "adult" cartoons" which try to focus on gutter humor, and half-ass political parodies. Still, I’m not a big fan of any of these or Adult Swim. But that’s just me.

  114. 0
    Austin_Lewis says:

    Dale Gribble/ Rusty Shackleford. 

    Also, ‘It’s six in the mornin an already that boy ain’t right’.

    Plus, Peggy’s terrible spanish.

  115. 0
    PHX Corp says:

    Theres awalys the possibility that it’s on adult swim in rerun form and ABC is also considering to air the show

    Watching JT on GP is just like watching an episode of Jerry springer only as funny as the fights

  116. 0
    Austin_Lewis says:

    King of the Hill is going off air at the end of the season, actually, which is a shame because I always thought it was funny.  Especially Boomhauer.  When people used to harass me at my home office, I began to answer the phone in the manner that he speaks.  The calls stopped.

  117. 0
    Vake Xeacons says:

    Well, I really wasn’t making a point there; just making fun of the guy, but if you want me to be serious, okay.

    He’s bashing the youth of America for being the youth. It’s not about immaturity; it’s our generation acts differently than his, and in his eyes, that’s childish. We’re children compared to him.

    I can promise you: if his elders were alive today, they would see him as childish and immature. It’s called the generation gap.

  118. 0
    Valdearg says:

    Hah. You better make damn well sure they fit right, then. :) I mean, 8 hours worth of gatorade and enough frisbees for frisbee golf can certainly weigh down the pants..

  119. 0
    Austin_Lewis says:

    I love cargos.  I can carry everything I need for any occasion.  Seriously.  I went to play frisbee golf last week and was able to carry enough water and gatorade for 8 hours of play, all because I was wearing cargo shorts.  Plus, they’re more comfortable.

  120. 0
    Ryno says:

    Couldn’t have said it better myself.


    Saying that Jack Thompson is impotent is an insult to impotent men everywhere. They’ve got a whole assortment of drugs that can cure their condition; Jack, however…

  121. 0
    hellfire7885 says:

    These pople need ot be held down and have their rose colored glasses yanked off, and made to know that the "grand ol days" were never that grand.

  122. 0
    V4nI114 Ic3 says:

    i guess we cant all dress like orville reddenbacher.


    whatever.  hes a 70-year-old douche.  let him make his tired comments to sell his papers.

  123. 0
    ZippyDSMlee says:

    pretty juvenile and self-indulgent and twice as half baked as any before it(we are not letting parents parent and school systems enforce rules we just feed kids to the law system sense because the system thinks no one wants to take responsibility) but tis not as arrogant as any human culture has been…


    In his day like it or not people were forced to grow up in a timely manner with alot of leeway while they were young( they didn’t call the cops for fights in schools or pulling fire alarms, kids even t4ens were treated like kids) now adays we protect kids in some half baked contortive manner until they leave…collage.

    There are alot of diffrances some better some worse you always had issues with people involved in them selfs and their life’s and not "in the real world"  or the world around them, now a days things are out of proration due to 24 hour and instant news.


    Vake Xeacons

    The old complain..its what they are good at LOL



    Gore,Violence,Sexauilty,Fear,Emotion these are but modes of transportation of story and thought, to take them from society you create a society of children and nannys, since adults are not required.

  124. 0
    Valdearg says:

    Oh, is this *edit* the "doofus" comment I was supposed to be looking for? Ah, well. In that case..

    I MUST be a doofus because I TOTALLY thought he really WAS talking about blue jeans.. /sarcasm

    Either way, he’s still wrong. I’m personally glad society has loosened up since the 1950’s. My god, I don’t think I’d be able to live if I were stuck in a society where collared shirts and ties were "appropriate" attire. Society as a whole is better off when people are allowed to be themselves, without fear of ridicule or retribution.

  125. 0
    Stealthguy says:

    I may or not be a doofus but he certainly does come across as a moron. It’s an odd strategy to complain about the current state affairs and then target a group you believe to be doing it wrong, not to sway them to your way of thinking with advice or suggestion, but blatanly take a swipe at them. Odd but we’ll soon see how effective it is won’t we.

  126. 0
    Neeneko says:

    Considering we are forcing children into longer and longer artificial childhoods, not surprising that adults are acting differently now too.

    Though for Will himself, even if it is only a metaphor it is still pretty whiny.   Not only does it reak of ‘culture changed and I don’t like it’ but it shows significant ignorance of how culture actually looked ‘in his day’.  Ah the rose tint of nostalgia…

  127. 0
    TaoJeannes says:

    I like George Will. He is typically a very reasoned individual and thus I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. This was merely a rhetorical device linked to his overall point that our culture has gotten pretty juvenile and self-indulgent. It’s really not a point very far from what the journalist mentioned on GamePolitics who told game designers they need to grow up. And you know what? I think both of them are right.

    And if you don’t get that he is using the wearing of denim as a metaphor, and you think he’s whining about actual denim, you are a doofus.

  128. 0
    Dark Sovereign says:

    Has that younger graduation rate actually resulted in better educated students? Judging by our last election, it doesn’t seem so. Do you actually know the stresses that your fathers and mothers were placed under? My father did the same physical labor as an adult when he was 8 years old.

    What freedoms and liberties were stomped under Bush? Be specific here. I’ve heard this claim bandied about alot, and I want to know what freedoms, as enumerated by our constitutions, both state and federal, you think have been trampled upon. Do you know what "the American Dream" actually refers to? 

  129. 0
    hellfire7885 says:

    Yikes, history really is repeating itself.

    If I remember right, in the last Great Depression, the posh aristocrats ran the country into the ground, then blamed the worst effected people and said for them to fix it.

  130. 0
    Ashton says:

    I read through the whole story, and all this man is doing is stating that the youth of America are now completely degenerate and increasingly useless – not true by any stretch of the imagination.

    As a country, our youths are graduating college earlier, entering the workforce earlier, and having more and more responsibilities placed on them at younger and younger ages. I’m "only" 24 and I’m already an active resident at a hospital. Those he seems to be targeting are the small minority as described by sensationalist news stories.

    And lest we forget, the country has entered the highest recorded unemployment rate since the Great Depression, if I recall correctly. Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t the person responsible for that not a fucking youth? Our youths are having greater pressures put forth on them, we’ve had our civil liberties and freedoms trampled on for the last eight years while the Republicans were in power, and as an aftereffect of the previous administration’s actions, we are now, as a group, unemployed, taxed like hell, and judged by the older generation for declaring who we want in office to look out for our pursuit of the American dream.

    The older generation basically fucked us over and told us to fix it our own damn selves, and now they want to sit there and tell us we’re lazy, infantile, parasitical hacks who don’t deserve to vote?

    I don’t fucking think so, Mr. Will.

  131. 0
    Vinzent says:

    I love this guy!

    As someone working in the videogame industry, I can tell you there’s no dress code and barely a personal hygiene code.

    But… it turns out that in this industry you are judged more on your ability than on your appearance. Perhaps if the Banking industry followed suit we wouldn’t have had men in nicely pressed suits ruining our country, destroying the lives of millions of investors, and being all around greedy piggy piggy fraktards.

  132. 0
    dedre says:

    I agree with a lot of the bitching, it did seem like a big pile of "get off mah lawn!" to me as well; though I do appreciate the attempt of banter of "society today"…because, wow, what a new concept to talk about /sarcasm

  133. 0
    The Hangd Man says:

    "This is not complicated. For men, sartorial good taste can be reduced to one rule: If Fred Astaire would not have worn it, don’t wear it. For women, substitute Grace Kelly."

    Dear god, reading that line infuriated me more than almost anything in the entire whine. I love Fred Astaire, so f’ you Will for dragging him into this. I’m sorry, but for all the people trying to defend George Will by calling everything he says a metaphor, you can call a whine a metaphor, but it’s still a whine at heart. His entire thing boils down to one thing, "I don’t like things the way they are, the way they used to be was better." Same stupid argument from the same stupid people who think of themselves as responsible conservatives.

    I’m tired of this type of mentality that dwells on inaccurate views of the past instead of focusing on the present. "Seventy-five percent of American "gamers" — people who play video games — are older than 18 and nevertheless are allowed to vote." That’s not f*ck*ng funny at all considering that Mr. Will was alive when people DID NOT have the right to vote, simply because somebody else didn’t want them to. Maybe he’d love to have us return to those grand old times when people couldn’t even use the same goddamned water fountain.

    I’m sorry for the swearing, but nothing gets me riled up more than implying that your vote is somehow more important than others or that certain people shouldn’t have that right. George is entitled to his opinion, just as I’m entitled to my opinion as to where he can shove it.


    I hate broccoli/ and think it totally sucks/ Why isn’t it meat?

  134. 0
    Erik says:

    Saying that men should dress like Fred Astaire pretty much invalidates his point by showing how out of touch he is with the present.  I don’t think his problem is with denim as much as the fact that he hasn’t realized the 50s waved bye-bye.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  135. 0
    Covenant says:

    Though you may want to handwave the silly comments away as simply metaphorical, I’d rather say he meant them in a bit of earnest jest with a point. However, the point is still absurd, as he also takes swings people simply for how they look in the jeans, and for the absurdity of weaing jeans even if you have money.  Perish the thought!

    In his words:

    "This is not complicated. For men, sartorial good taste can be reduced to one rule: If Fred Astaire would not have worn it, don’t wear it. For women, substitute Grace Kelly.

    I would assume part of becoming an adult in an adult society is getting past such puerile and childish obsessions about what people wear in their off hours, to their yacht, or to whatever it is the rest of us do in our off-hours. Such as gaming. Such foolishness!  Real men play golf, afterall, or dance around in the rain. Time to grow up, America!


  136. 0
    Harry Miste says:

    (And somehow what was supposed to be a reply to a comment failed to notice)

    | XBOX LIVE GamerTag: Harry Miste | Steam ID: Harry Miste | PSN ID: HarryMiste |

  137. 0
    shady8x says:

    Texas is talking about passing a bill. one that puts the tenth amendment (which according to congress and the supreme court and executive branch is to be ingored as useless) into a state law to resist the fed, just like about 20 other states including california…


    Have you heard that according to the fed, growing roses in your garden, for yourself, is interstate commerce which the fed has the right to control… I think states need to reassert their rights…

    I voted for Obama and I am for these bills, also maybe the next president is Jeb Bush(god forbid), if that is that case then you will also be wishing that your state passed this kind of bill…

  138. 0
    Valdearg says:

    I cant believe this guy  is bitching about jeans.. Really? He must have missed this week’s news cycle, because Jeans are the least of America’s worries..Out of wingnut calls for an armed revoultion, the  governer of Texas Threatening to Seceede from the union, and 750,000 sore losers gathering to mill about on public property around the country yesterday, JEANS are the biggest issue of the day.  SOMEBODYS  got thier prioritys right..  *facepalm*

    Because, you know.. Jeans might just happen to be comfortable, affordable, and easy to wash, which is exactly why I’m sure 95% of people who do wear them choose to do so..

    PS: I know I ignored the gamer comment, but when I noticed the title of his "Column" was "Demon Denim," he lost all credibility in my book.

  139. 0
    Stealthguy says:

    Ooh ooh, let me join that line of reasoning! Another thing to consider is the fact that by the time he’s ready to put in a home chances are a gamer is going to be taking care of him.

  140. 0
    Stealthguy says:

    Society as a whole is better off when people are allowed to be themselves, without fear of ridicule or retribution.

    Which is what he’s enjoy, well the retribution part anyway…

  141. 0
    Vake Xeacons says:

    Yes, a VERY slow day. That’s probably why I’m commenting on every just for the hell of it.

    Seinfeld went off the air years ago. That shows just how behind this guy is. I don’t blame him. It’s the Altzeimer’s speaking.

  142. 0
    Icehawk says:

    Does rather make one curious what decade Mr. Will is living in.  We are legion and he is.. well yesterdays news. 

    Granted there are some of any generation, ethnic group, religion whatever that gives a bad name to the majority what he is spouting is little short of a racial slur and prejudice.

  143. 0
    CarsAreScary says:

    "The truth is you should never trust anybody who wears a bow tie. A cravat is supposed to point down to accentuate the genitals. Why do you want to trust somebody whose tie points out to accentuate his ears?" – Doc Wilson character from State and Main

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