Protesters Arrested at Army’s Video Game Recruitment Center

This video shows anti-war protesters yesterday as they marched with police escort to the Franklin Mills Mall in Philadelphia where they delivered a symbolic "criminal complaint" to U.S. Army recruiters and the mall’s management company.

The demonstrators were protesting the Army’s use of a high-tech, video game-equipped recruitment center located in the mall.

There was a significant police presence as the protesters arrived. They were permitted to enter the mall and stage their rally at the entrance to the Army Experience Center.

As the rally ended, seven protesters, mostly in white masks, were arrested, presumably for refusing to disperse. The arrests were peaceful and appeared to be scripted by the protesters as a symbolic gesture.

UPDATE: A press release on yesterday’s protest has been issued by its organizers.

UPDATE 2: The local Fox outlet has a video report.

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92 comments

  1. 0
    Chuck Deluxe says:

    I don’t believe that their protests had anything to do with hip hop music or a hip hop game. Anyway, I think that these protestors are raising commotion for little purpose. I don’t see any issue with using video games in general for recruiting. If anything, the Army is utilizing technology the way educational institutions should, and I applaud them for it.

    -Chuck Deluxe Hip Hop Music

  2. 0
    Halo9x says:

     Just another sad expression by those who hate this country. Anyone with half a brain would know that the game is a simulation that gives a more realistic idea of what being in the Army is like. Furthermore, is it any worse than the Call of Duty games or Halo series or similar games? At least its better than the wanton violence of many games that promote not only violence but criminal activity, drugs, etc.

      These are people who simply need to get a life. If the Army can’t recruit men to fill the ranks then who is going to defend them?? They certainly aren’t going to do it! 

  3. 0
    Comet says:

    First of all I’m not American. I’ve played Americas Army since release.
    Regarding the use of games a propaganda/recruitment tool.
    I think there is still a lack of understanding of games as a medium. This game is nothing less than a modern tool of advertisement. Just like any advertisement in any medium. Taking that into count they were
    careful to try and show the different aspects and the true nature behind joining the army. And that is… "Don’t be naive. This is a dangerous job and you might be killed. And also you’ll be asked to kill."
    Each player is reminded of that fact in each match. If this is target towards teens, then guess what, that is the age when people decide their path. Go to law school, go to police academy, go to army school.
    When you reach 18 you need to make a decision. Now taking this into count they try to show a glimpse of the different paths. Some of the basic core principles and so on. In fact they have a very effective system in place that tries to limit
    kiddie behavior. You know, stuff like being a rambo, killing team mates and all that. That leads you straight to prison. The point is, they try to pass the message. "this is serious business…if you can’t handle, don’t come"
    Fact is in the end of the day, this ends up being a much more serious much more down to earth way of advertisement.
    Yes it is propaganda, but it is just as big of a propaganda as a TV advertisement.
    This won’t make you want to join the army if you weren’t thinking about that in the first place, that is for sure.

    As a foreigner this ended up being a great way of knowing more about the US army and its phylosophies. They have a lot of information available for those interestead of knowing more about them. The professions and all that.
    It is also ironice but in truth it allowed people from different nations to come together and share military based experiences. Yes that is true. I even had very heated political discussions on the Americas Army forums.
    And you know what? It was great.

    To tell you the truth, I’d rather they use this type of recruitment that is a much more informed one, than the typical adds that try to portray the military as an invencible force.
     

  4. 0
    ZippyDSMlee says:

    Thats the natrue of any drive to get workers for either hard or mundane/repetivvie work…..good lord people grow up…..

     


    I am a criminal because I purchase media,I am a criminal because I use media, I am a criminal because I chose to own media..We shall remain criminals until Corporate stay’s outside our bedrooms..


    http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com

  5. 0
    Darmoth says:

    I think it’s much ado about nothing.

    They’re games, and a propaganda piece at that. If anyone is dumb enough to enlist based off their experience playing a computer game without doing any real research, they get what they deserve. They will have sufficiently proven they have what it takes to do grunt work.

    "Oh noes! But the childrens!" Last time I checked you had to be 18 to enlist, old enough to have had the opportunity to read and learn what they’re getting themselves into.

    Not to meantion, recruitment has dropped off considerably. So I can’t blame the armed forces for trying a new way to hook potential recruits. These (morons) have every right to protest, but their reasoning is at best, flawed.

  6. 0
    deuxhero says:

    " mostly in white masks, were arrested, presumably for refusing to disperse"

     

    You sure the fact that they were concealing their face with masks had absolutly nothing to do with it?

  7. 0
    Nekowolf says:

    Demographic, whatever. If you want me to call it a demographic, fine, then I will.

    "Do you really watch Adult Swim every single night all the way till the early mornings (5:00 am)" Yes and no. I do watch it every night, but usually up to about 1-3 ish. Often closer to 1:30ish or 2:00ish.

    "Read any videogame magazines that are left around these days? Watch G4" And no, I do not. Nor do I have any opinion on that because of that fact.

    And I absolutely dispise those drug PSA commercials. Two in particular: Above the Influence, and Truth. I want to stab everyone involved.

  8. 0
    Laughing Hyena says:

    I watch Adult Swim every night. While there may be a few Army commercials here an there, I would -hardly- call it "flooding." Nekowolf

    Read any videogame magazines that are left around these days? Watch G4? Do you really watch Adult Swim every single night all the way till the early mornings (5:00 am)? And Nekowolf, if it isn’t a bother, can you please call it ‘demographic’, rather than target? I know they sound similar, but both they mean compelety different things in certain areas.

    When I would try to watch G4’s ‘on demand’ titles, I would always get a commercial for the Marines every single time. This would be for video game clips that sometimes were only under 30 seconds! The movie ones were timed to end quickly, but that Marine one took forever to end.

    The major two advertisers I’ve noticed towards video games and Spike TV/G4-like channels/magazines is the Armed Forces and Drug PSAs (Alcohol, Smoking, Pot). Both which I find very annoying as they do run ad nausea, especially those ‘Truth’ drug PSAs. And I would love to see the Ad designer for those Truth ads be fired one day, cause they are god awful. It’s like Drug PSAs have never evolved from the 80’s/90’s.

    I have no problem with what the Armed Forces do, just I would love to have anything that zaps commercials that play way more than they should or hell, have no commercials at all. This probably is why I also don’t listen to radio anymore, they play the same songs over and over again to the point where I just can’t stand them.

    Why yes, even when I told them ‘NO’ all the time, I’ve had the Army recruiters call my home phone constantly during and after High School (As High Schools have to give out your phone numbers to them). Even as I struggled out of Special Education into Normal classes. Yes, they target Special Ed. Students too. It wasn’t until College that they stopped. I think they really aren’t all that different from bank/refinance telemarketers.

    And yet there’s no protesters for a game like Wall Street Kid.

    -Hyena

     

  9. 0
    Adrian Lopez says:

    "So you are saying they can not use stuff to appeal to the masses to bring in people to see if they can make it to basic so they can try and make it past basic?"

    I’m not saying that, no.

    I’m saying the Army’s recruitment center provides a glorified, misleading image of the Army, and is meant to attract the young. Those things combined make the whole thing rather detestable.

  10. 0
    ZippyDSMlee says:

     renedrivers

     

    Its not in the video,at least not blantly, its from the whole basis of the protest from start to fin.

    Alex

    Ah its the insanity stimming from PCisim the line of thought we must have rules to protect everyone from ever little thing is killing us as a culture and nation.

    I mean what about Army Junior ROTC?!?!?! they are corrupting the youth of Amerika!!!!

    Really people……. you gain a interest in it and like any other job you move from point a to z one step at a time……..

     


    I am a criminal because I purchase media,I am a criminal because I use media, I am a criminal because I chose to own media..We shall remain criminals until Corporate stay’s outside our bedrooms..


    http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com

  11. 0
    ZippyDSMlee says:

     

    Adrian Lopez

     

    So you are saying they can not use stuff to appeal to the masses to bring in people to see if they can make it to basic so they can try and make it past basic?

     

     Oy fcking vay whats next keeping kids(15-17) away from job fairs and festvails becuse they might get a fcking job in 3 to 6?


    I am a criminal because I purchase media,I am a criminal because I use media, I am a criminal because I chose to own media..We shall remain criminals until Corporate stay’s outside our bedrooms..


    http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com

  12. 0
    ZippyDSMlee says:

    Alex

     

    Pretty much, they centered the protest around video games not about the realities of service.

     

     


    I am a criminal because I purchase media,I am a criminal because I use media, I am a criminal because I chose to own media..We shall remain criminals until Corporate stay’s outside our bedrooms..


    http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com

  13. 0
    Alex says:

    From two people quoted in their press release, linked in the article above:

    "It targets impressionable minors"

    "If you’re not old enough to drink you are not old enough to kill. No recruiting of our children!"

    Also quoted from the press release:

    an enlarged version of the criminal complaint was handed over and stated, in part, "THAT: the Army Experience Center is therefore involved in the "Criminal Solicitation of Minors" – soliciting underage persons to act in a violent manner and thereby promoting and supporting criminal and corrupt behavior…"

    I’m not under the affluence of incohol as some thinkle peep I am. I’m not half as thunk as you might drink. I fool so feelish I don’t know who is me, and the drunker I stand here, the longer I get.

  14. 0
    Nekowolf says:

    Fun. 

    Flinstones: What was aired, was a commercial before they were barred from advertisement on TV and radio, aired in between the show. It lasted for its first two seasons, from 1960 to 1962. Oh, and that ban on cigarette commercials on TV and radio? 1970, signed by Nixon. Oh, and the Flintstones? It was originally targetting an adult audience.

    Alcohol: What the fuck are you even talking about. Prove it to me. SHOW ME just what products you are talking about. Because that sounds like a load of shit. Give me actual names of these products. Because I will be looking them up.

    I watch Adult Swim every night. While there may be a few Army commercials here an there, I would -hardly- call it "flooding." Also, 14 to 25? Okay, let’s claim that is their actual target. 14-17 is a legal "minor" but 18-25 is legally an adult. Let’s compare. 14-25 spans an 11 years age cap. Four of that eleven are minors, and adults? Seven. Furthermore, most of those shows are rated M. It is quite apparent, that the major target they are going for is, in fact, adults.

    And that’s all I’m saying; I’ll let every one else get onto the second half of your case.

  15. 0
    Seiena_Cyrus says:

    Not in today’s society. Neither side is willing to negotiate these days they just jump right to protests…This age is a very my way or the highway age I’ve noticed…I’ve seen people in debates throw out a perfectly good compromise and the other side basically tell them to piss off cuz compromise isn’t good enough…it -HAS- to be exactly how they want it.

  16. 0
    Wolvenmoon says:

    Cigarette companies couldn’t sell to minors in the 60s, but there are damn sure plenty of cartoon characters blatantly advertising cigarettes. (Flintstones for example). Check youtube.

    Alcohol companies use overly colorful beverages labeled as energy drinks to appeal to the next generation of drinkers.

    Ignoring the video game issues entirely, army commercials FLOOD late night cartoon network and adult swim. The demographic of adult swim is ages 14-25.

    The army is targeting young kids. The army is not a strong career. Army towns have exceedingly high rates of crime. Army personel get low pay, bad benefits, and are screwed over in their old age.

    Our army (military, I can’t be bothered to just used armed forces) is a neccasary part of society, just like our sewage treatment plant workers. Does that sound like an insult to them? It isn’t. Neccessity does not mean glory. The armed forces is hard, unappreciated, dirty, painful, and potentially deadly work.

    They’re representing themselves in air conditioned comfortable environments as easy, clean, ‘get up and walk away’ type jobs. This isn’t a desk job. People WILL shoot at our armed forces.

    Parents have no way to control their children’s school curriculem and activities (Army targets here), they are fighting a losing battle to control their television, and hell if they can control internet access and gaming. Parents do not often want their children in the army, for the simple fact that there is an unusually high incidence of returning as a mutilated corpse when compared to other career tracks.

    The army should make its presence as a job known, and sit down and shut up, or represent itself as what it is. A dangerous, usually unrewarding, and under appreciated job that you DON’T respawn in, you DON’T get up and pee in the middle of a firefight, and you sure as hell don’t order pizza and eat while you shoot.

     

    I will not buy securom games. http://www.wolvenmoon.com/sharedfiles/message1.jpg and http://www.wolvenmoon.com/sharedfiles/message2.jpg

  17. 0
    TBoneTony says:

    Back in the First World War, Second World War and also in the Vietnam war people who were 18 years of age had to be sent to war regardless of whether they believed in it or not.

    These days thanks to the army recruitment programs, we don’t have to worry about serving the country in the army, navy or airforce against our will.

    If there are people in the army that like being there, then let them join. If there are people who want to do something more with their lives than just being in the army, then let them chose to do that.

    That is what the Army Recruitment Centre is there for, allowing people to have a choice.

     

    If they were not there, and a war breaks out, it will be just like WW1 & WW2 all over again, and that is the reasons why the Army Recruitment centres are set up just so we don’t have to suffer the hardships of going to war against our will all over again.

     

  18. 0
    TBoneTony says:

    Why go on a protest when all you are going to do is just make some negative publicity of yourself.

    Never worked for the Iraq war…and it is certainly never going to work for the army recuitment.

     

    If you don’t want young people to serve in the army or going off to war, just focus on letting your own children know about what you think that the army does, don’t take it out on other people who could be innocent and just trying to do their job.

     

  19. 0
    Monte says:

    Heh, on the PETA vs Wayne LaPierre videos, that is another one on youtube in which they bring up PETA’s connections with domestic terrorists groups… the best part is when Pierre starts quoting high ranking EPTA members condoning the use of violence, bombings and what not. Frankly i just wish i could find that whole debate and not just those two snippets from the peta debate.

    Though one thing i found funny in the animal killing video was the fat guy at the beginning, mainly because is sounds like he’s was speaking from a certain penn and teller episode =p

  20. 0
    Father Time says:

    Doom90885 made me realize something in the other thread about this.

    If these people were smart they would go to secretary of state (blech) Hillary Clinton about this.

    I mean she’s said that violent video games were bad and harmful in the past so they should just tell her that our Army is using them to recruit people.

    She’ll either have to start something against them or put herself in an awkward position and probably make her look like a hypocrite.

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  21. 0
    renedrivers says:

    That’s because by the time it gets to the point of having to protest all options for a rational discussion and compromise have been long passed.

  22. 0
    renedrivers says:

    “No what they are doing is saying that games are for kids and the army should stay away from kids.”

    No, they aren’t. Please point me to where you are getting that idea from, because I’m missing that part of the video.

  23. 0
    Austin_Lewis says:

    I make a point of getting chicken at KFC everytime PETA goes to protest it.  Those people piss me off so very much.  My favorite part, however, was how they followed me to my car so they could take down my plates and try to harass me at my house.  That lasted for about 5 minutes.  Protesters are all brave when they can protest against people who won’t fight back (KFC, the US Army, whoever they’re protesting against), but when someone stands up to them, a lot of them fuck off.  Kind of like when Wayne LaPierre debated that jackass from PETA who said we shouldn’t be allowed to hunt.  Best debate ever.  LaPierre whips out a stack o’ papers from Virginia which has the stats on how many animals were put to sleep at the local PETA. 

    Actually, any debate with Wayne LaPierre in it is fun.  There’s a debate on youtube, the great UN gun debate, where he goes up against some dumb bitch from Australia, and he hammers her the whole time, and then at the end, she is asked by some Brit what she has to see about him not being to take part in his favorite sport (pistol shooting).  She says ‘Find a new hobby’.  Great video.

    Y’all need to youtube that shit.

  24. 0
    Thomas McKenna says:

    "From what I see this is a "do what we say because were a mob and we said so" kind of deal."

    You don’t see many protests, do you?  That’s basically all they are.  You won’t find a single person open to debate the subject rationally at a protest.  Many carry signs that say things like "we will not compromise" and shit like that. 

    God, now I’m getting flashes of the most recent PETA protest nearby.  Not only are they rude and annoying in their protests, but they also go for the "shock" value with a lot of their stunts.

    But yeah…from what you see, you see what a protest in essence really is.

  25. 0
    Adrian Lopez says:

    "No what they are doing is saying that games are for kids and the army should stay away from kids."

    No. I think what they’re saying is the Army knows video games appeal to the young (the Army’s target demographic for recruitment), and that the Army is recruiting these young men and women through the use of imagery that depicts a false and romanticized image of Army life.

  26. 0
    DCOW says:

    I get the feeling that these people that are protesting the AEC are

    A) lemming-like minded

    B) need a crowd

    C) don’t know all the details

    and

    D) just a bunch of people that want to make some noise because of their overall discomfort in society.

     

     

    the fact that their chant was changed, and that people went with it is funny because why would anyone start saying something else?

     

    not to mention the part where these people blindly started marching, not even bothering to ask the people that run the AEC for a compromise.

    From what I see this is a "do what we say because were a mob and we said so" kind of deal. If I was american I’d enlist in the army just to spite these people, since these days it’s pretty much impossible to see war as something completely glamourized. Even if  person is stupid enough to think that they are just going to join the army, kill a few people, get promoted and be taken off the front lines in a few months, then they are deluded to begin with.

     

  27. 0
    Seiena_Cyrus says:

    Well by that measure…if Video games are -only- for fun…then I guess we ought to destroy and Ban -ALL- Simulation media which provides an idea of what you might be getting into… from what I’ve understood of the Army Expirience it’s used to enhance not poke fun at War. They are basically using it as a visual interactive medium to give people an idea of what will be expected of them. Its honestly a pretty good idea…I imagine most people become a lot more interested or find that it’s not really their thing through interactiveity not some recruiter talking at them.

     

    Edit: Wanted to add cuz I looked at the site, in big ol Yellow print it says "Age Verification Required." Meaning I have a hard time believing that little kids are running combat simulator missions going OMG! WAR IS COOL! it really is just simulators to let you see what will be expected of you.

  28. 0
    Alex says:

    "No what they are doing is saying that games are for kids and the army should stay away from kids."

    This. The protest’s message seems to be that because the recruitment office has a video game center in it, they must be targeting minors, and won’t someone think of the children?

    It’s bull. I’m sorry, but it is.


    I’m not under the affluence of incohol as some thinkle peep I am. I’m not half as thunk as you might drink. I fool so feelish I don’t know who is me, and the drunker I stand here, the longer I get.

  29. 0
    Mad_Scientist says:

    I think it’s kind of silly to get purposely arrested like that. What point does that make? None that I can see. It just wastes the time of law enforcement.

  30. 0
    ZippyDSMlee says:

    No what they are doing is saying that games are for kids and the army should stay away from kids.

    Unfortunately you can still be a kid and be a an adult in this country (collages kids,18-30), so it comes down to the anal retentive and inane argument used for Camel Joe, "Oh hes making kids smoke!!"  ggaaa…. people and their moronic inbred assumptions.

    The trouble here is they want to use any excuse to protest the army when there are a few factual and real world issues that they could whine on about.

    In the end recurtment is one step in many to bring in people its not the end all final say in getting people into the army, but I guess they’d rather have a draft rather than media driven recurtment .

    Though I must say some form of subscripted basic training/boot camp tied to the peace/amri cores to force some discipline in the drooling youth would be a great thing, let them clean up,build houses and other team driven tasks.

     


    I am a criminal because I purchase media,I am a criminal because I use media, I am a criminal because I chose to own media..We shall remain criminals until Corporate stay’s outside our bedrooms..


    http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com

  31. 0
    renedrivers says:

    I’m rather shocked at the responses I am reading here. A bit of research does wonders. The Army Experience center is indeed a recruitment center. All you have to do is visit their website http://www.thearmyexperience.com/ and it’s clear that’s what the purpose of the place is. This is by the fact that they show army careers and have army staff on hand to answer questions about the military. If this were a pure gaming center, they certainly wouldn’t have “alternative high school” sessions where you can get your GED listed as events. In fact the gaming area is just one part of the entire center.

    What everyone needs to keep in mind is that these people aren’t protesting video games. They are protesting the Army’s use of them as a recruitment tool. There is a very big difference. As a 34 year old hardcore gamer myself, I support their protest. As with any job that involves the potential to loose your life, the dangers shouldn’t be made into something fun. That’s what the army’s use of video games does.

  32. 0
    Pixelantes Anonymous says:

    Which people and why?

    You don’t think using recruiting methods that target underaged kids is at least a little bit questionable?

    If so, do you think people who protest against that are crazy?

    Or maybe you were saying the people at the US Army, who designed this particular recruiting technique are crazy?

    http://pixelantes.blogspot.com/

  33. 0
    Orelup says:

    If you know where the info is, why don’t you link it for us?  Stop trying to get us to help you persuade us, its your job to provide the info.

  34. 0
    jnf says:

    Who says they’re targetting underage kids? They’re likely not playing WoW in there, it’s quite likely to be more adult oriented games. I’m almost 30, I still play video games. My guess is you’re not a juvenile, and you play video games. Are you saying there is no video game marketting towards you?

    Also, you know we have things like UAVs and robots now, meaning that at least for some of them this is a very realistic portrayal of what their job would be. You know the majority of troops don’t see active combat in the sense that most of them are working supporting roles.

    Either way, of all the things to complain about, this really isn’t one of them– or rather pick your battles otherwise you discredit everything that close to sounds the same.

  35. 0
    E. Zachary Knight says:

    That and the fact that doctors have to pay $100s of thousands of dollars in malpractice insurance or risk finacial and career ruin if they don’t.

    But still, I don’t understand how the terrors of war are an acceptable reason not to market a career in the military to teenagers. Seriously. How much of a moron do you have to be to think that there is no risk at all when joining the military. Just watching a war movie, you learn that you may die and friends of yours may die. It is pretty common knowledge that people die during their term in the military.

    E. Zachary Knight
    Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
    http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma


    E. Zachary Knight
    Divine Knight Gaming
    Oklahoma Game Development
    Rusty Outlook
    Random Tower
    My Patreon

  36. 0
    Ashton says:

    Medical professions often have comparable dangers. Do you know how many doctors and surgeons die from nosocomial infections and getting jabbed by patients’ needles? I realize it’s not the head exploding type of danger you face in the military, but you do have to deal with lots of incredibly dangerous substances in your workday, unless you’re in one of the ‘safer’ branches, like dermatology.

  37. 0
    Im_Blue says:

    Man im so sick of people saying there is no problem with this since other jobs do the same thing….. the whole point is that the army isnt anything like other jobs. No one has a problem with the medical profesions doing this because nothing THAT bad is going to happen to someone who choses one of these job options. If you join the army however you have a good chance of getting killed, seeing your friends killed, having to kill innocent families etc.

    Can people seriously NOT tell the difference here….. geeze this place confuses the hell out of me sometimes.

  38. 0
    Bengal3a says:

    Are they giving them purposefully inaccurate portrayals? How do we all know? Has any of us actually BEEN to the place and actually TALKED to the people that work there?? Until you do that, all of this…I mean ALL of this conversation is speculation. I plan on trying to get there soon.

  39. 0
    Monte says:

    I think, the concern from critics is that recruitment centers like this one will only increase the number of people who join the military for the wrong reasons, not the right ones…

    people who want to join the military for the right reasons are likely gonna join regardless of these recruitment centers… the centers seem like they would only attract the eye of those who are uncertain or never thought about it before; and when they advertise themselves, they probably don’t do enough to mention the serious negatives that go along with being in military… afterall, you want to get people to join, not scare them away… they grab the eye of those that may not take it serious, who attracted to fame, glory, and money but don’t hear about about how ugly the battlefield can get… this recruitment center seems like a huge gimmick, and those who have never thought about military before, but would be willing to join it for the right reasons, could likely be recruited though less gimmicky methods and with a straight story of what military life is like… essentially, i think that critics feel that these methods of recruitment are deceptive.  

     

    As for the difference between Police and military is a number of things… for one thing, the battlefield for a solider, especially during war time, would be more hellish than whatever police have to deal with on a day to day basis… depending on where you live, an officer may not have to pull out their gun for a long time. When it comes to crime, a police officer can sometimes end a crime with a simple "freeze", and if not may only need to wound the criminal… military on other hand are seriously threaten by the enemy to the point where they pretty much must kill; Not to mention that sometimes you may end killing civilians with your actions, like in bombing strikes or what not (closest police come to this is generally, using non-lethal methods to control a mod or something)… And as for their own lives, not sure about this in terms of exact statistics, but i think the life expectancy of a solider during war time would be much lower than that of an officer (if not, i’m sure many critics see it that way)… not to mention the nature of police work is almost always about protecting our own civilians where as military makes more offensive moves against the enemy; actions in defense are always necessary, but actions that are offensive can be debatable in their value depending on the given situation… it’s not that often you get someone question if the police needed to take a certain action, but military moves on the other hand are often questioned by many; some think that some battles or casualties could have been avoided, or that the some of the actions the military is ordered to execute are more damaging then they are beneficial 

    Ya, i think i can see how the military recruitment critics would be able to rationalize and draw a line between police and military

  40. 0
    Father Time says:

    I think the general idea is that are purposefully giving them an inaccurate protrayal of the dangers of the job, which angers them.

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  41. 0
    Austin_Lewis says:

    Used to be you could be 17 and go to basic and whatnot, but you weren’t allowed to go to a combat zone (or to really leave the country).  This was actually a great route; many people who joined at 17 managed to finish basic, get through with AIT, and even go to Airborne school, all while getting their GED, before they turned 18.  Not too shabby, methinks.

  42. 0
    Happeh says:

    "Yes, recruiters are tricksters, and while I was in boot camp, my greatest desire was to go back and punch that guy in the face.

    But it was worth it, anyway. And I forgave him."

    Was that after Sarge showed you the joys of barracks sex?

    I will never forget the story of the new recruit who was put in his barracks with the other new recruits and had the lights shut out on their first night. After a few minutes, the recruit heard a sound. It went "creak creak creak creak creak creak…………"

  43. 0
    Thomas McKenna says:

    Whatever documentation you have of the US army recruiting underage minors is false.  Period.  They can advertise a life in the military to them.  They can send a whole bunch of recruiters to High Schools and to where kids are.  They can do all of this, yet no minor can enter the army.  Thus, there is no recruitment of minors. 

    You have to be a legal adult (aka, age 18 or above) to enter into military service, and by that point, they’re not minors.  Look it up.

  44. 0
    Seiena_Cyrus says:

    Course we could be like other countries and just have a non-volunteer army…I mean then the kids wouldn’t have a choice they’d just be like yer 18 in you go! The fact of the matter is…they have a right to advertise the military as the viable career option it is. I’d have gone into the Navy if I’d have been physically well enough to handle the PTs and stuff…but I wasn’t so the Military wasn’t an option for me even though the structured environment woulda been good for me. people can hate the military and stuff but really people that join up either do it for the wrong reason (money/college) expecting that nothing bad will happen. Or the right reason (knowing full well they might put their life on the line for their country). It amazes me that Police officers are better recieved as a respectable job (and I’ve been harrassed worse by Police academies) while the military has a similar job (Only on a national level, keep the peace and all that) but they are treated like the plague.

  45. 0
    E. Zachary Knight says:

    Let me ask you something. Is it wrong for the medical profession to advertise a career as a doctor to teenagers? What about the information technology? Teaching? Farming? Scientific?

    Teenagers at at an age where they start thinking about the careers that they will want to be in for the rest of their lives. They start working part time in retail and resturaunts.

    Why is it so bed to present military as a viable career option or a method to get started in what ever they do want to do? I really don’t see the issue with providing teenagers with information about a military career as long as they are not actually signing them up for it until they are 18.

    E. Zachary Knight
    Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
    http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma


    E. Zachary Knight
    Divine Knight Gaming
    Oklahoma Game Development
    Rusty Outlook
    Random Tower
    My Patreon

  46. 0
    Pixelantes Anonymous says:

    Troll? I see, so you disagree with what I say, so I’m a troll? Riiiiight.

    Actually, TV advertisement have pretty strict rules about advertising to children.

    It’s been well documented that the US Army uses video games to recruit underage (younger than 18) kids. Look it up.

    http://pixelantes.blogspot.com/

  47. 0
    Vake Xeacons says:

    Underage? Are you just a troll, or are you serious? Underage?

    Do we really have to go through the "protect the children" argument again? Books, movies, TV advertisments all safe, but games are toys and shouldn’t be touched by adults, right?

    Yes, recruiters are tricksters, and while I was in boot camp, my greatest desire was to go back and punch that guy in the face. But it was worth it, anyway. And I forgave him.

    All in all, it’s still just an attack on our honorable troops.

  48. 0
    JustChris says:

    I guess hate crimes can currently only be applied when it get involved with a more tangible breach of the law…i.e. physical harm or the defacing of property (such as graffiti).

    GameSnooper

  49. 0
    Adrian Lopez says:

    And what exactly does my objection to the proposed use of CS gas have to do with your rant about private property? The protesters were arrested, wanted to be arrested, and surrendered peacefully upon being arrested.

    I was merely objecting to the idea that protesters should be gassed simply for protesting.

  50. 0
    jnf says:

    You know, you don’t actually have a right to be in the mall, much less speak in it. It’s private property and when they say GTFO, its time to go. Just because they were polite enough to humor you and allow you to do your thing doesn’t mean you ever had a right to do it. They were being polite, go figure.

    Also, those very clearly are not police officers taking them off, my guess is mall security (whom probably turned them over to the police later).

  51. 0
    Michael Chandra says:

    Let me introduce you to a wonderful word of the english language.
     

    Oh and CS gas would have made the martyrdom thing worse, since then everyone could have gone "we were busy with civil disobedience and suddenly they started CS gassing both us and other mall visitors present! Attaca! Attaca!"

  52. 0
    Adrian Lopez says:

    "It was a response to a post that clearly was aimed at specifically the 7 who got themselves arrested."

    So… you were actually suggesting the cops use CS gas on the protesters inside the shopping mall? Would that not result in quite a bit of collateral damage to innocent people at the mall?

    Tear gas would normally be used outside, where you’d find the protesters who weren’t arrested. Couple that with your use of "some of these" (as in "some of these protesters") rather than "some of those" (as in "some of those who were arrested"), and it seems to me any misunderstanding has more to do with your inability to communicate than my inability to comprehend what you wrote.

  53. 0
    Quarantine says:

    Don’t you people have jobs?

    Now I’m waiting for the line "It’s the weekend, dumbass". But I had to say it anyway.

    —————————————-

    "Because this town is under the stranglehold of a few tight eyed Tree Huggers who would rather play Hacky Sack than lock up the homeless" — Birch Barlow

  54. 0
    Austin_Lewis says:

    "So now old activists will hear ‘7 protesters arrested’ and mentally link it to the horrible things that happened to protesters back then."

    I’m sorry, what?  Sounds like we were specifically talking about the 7 jackasses who forced police to arrest them to me.  Although I don’t doubt that there were others there who could do with a good taste of CS gas, I think it fairly obvious who we were talking about.  Plus, if you CS gas them, they don’t get to go on their martyrdom tip.

  55. 0
    Michael Chandra says:

    No. If you had meant those 7 specifically and no others, you’d have said "those", not "some of these". Especially since the "they" the post you replied on used, was to all of them, not specifically those 7, since it was about that ‘they’ would probably use the arrests as a tool. Which the press-release did, mentioning the arrests in the headline then only later on mentioning once it was due to disobeying the order to leave. Somehow I doubt that press release was put together solely by the arrested guys.
    The way you formulated it now, your post appeared to address the ‘they’ that was the bigger group of protesters rather than the few that got themselves arrested.

    Of course you don’t give a rat’s ass about how many people logically could read your posts, but I wouldn’t say he lacks reading comprehension. What we have here is failure to communicate.

  56. 0
    Austin_Lewis says:

    It was a response to a post that clearly was aimed at specifically the 7 who got themselves arrested.  If you lack reading comprehension, that is not my problem.  You may need to work on your communication though, since apparently you can’t follow a conversation. 

  57. 0
    Adrian Lopez says:

    You were talking about using CS gas on a non-specific "some" of the protesters. Now you talk about arresting those particular protesters who refused to disperse and make no mention of CS gas at all. Clever rhetorical trick, that.

    Which one of us is the bigger jackass, I wonder?

  58. 0
    Austin_Lewis says:

    Being arrested for a refusal to disperse has nothing to do with free speech, jackass.  It has to do with going out of your way to disrupt a flow of business in a mall.  Who gets arrested for that? 

    Any other snarky comments?

  59. 0
    Austin_Lewis says:

    Some of these morons could probably use a good dose of CS gas, I hear it does wonders at helping one pull their head out of their ass.

  60. 0
    jnf says:

    Well, you see, you actually need a permit to hold a protest, it’s actually not just something you can do generally– and when you do, its the powers the be being nice and letting you have your say. A mall is one of those oddities of US law where its a private property open to the public, once youve been told to leave and you don’t, its tresspassing. While I generally agree with you about phelps et al, I don’t know whether they go through the motions they’re supposed to (my bet is they do– you generally can’t make that many people angry and cut corners). Therein would be the difference.

    Furthermore, leaving aside the utter absurdity of hate crimes in general (assault is assault is assault, no one does it with love), Saying ‘all gays should die’ is akin to saying ‘all humans must die’ which is nothing like saying ‘im going to kill you’.

  61. 0
    gamepolitics says:

    Well, I think these folks *wanted* to be arrested for publicity purposes. Note that the protest organizer put out a press release on the arrests today.

    I thought the Philly P.D. did a very nice job, overall. They were professional and gave the protesters plenty of room to get their message out. But they were also clearly ready to deal with any problems. And when it was over, it was over. The protesters were given notice to leave the mall. No one got hurt, no property damage (none that I saw, anyway).

    Protesters get some credit for restraint as well. I only saw one guy that seemed to want to push the buttons of the police but his fellow protesters told him not to go there.

     


  62. 0
    JustChris says:

    Now why couldn’t the police do this to protesters that are actually worth arresting, like the Westboro Church "God Hates Fags" protests? Death threats on gays should be a hate crime, just like death threats on individuals is considered assault.

    GameSnooper

  63. 0
    Paul T Shoink says:

    Well, from my experiences at the D&B’s in Detroit and Denver, unless they’re recruiting people to fight off future alien attacks, or for some sort of basketball league with moving baskets and no defense, I’m pretty sure it’s safe to say D&B has no other motive than to provide a place where you can get wasted and play games for their profit.

  64. 0
    Tony says:

    That’s debatable…  recruitment comes in all sorts of forms.   Just as Top Gun was funded and edited by the military (and apparently succeeded as it increased army recruitment by 500%), it wouldn’t surprise me to find some of the more recent games have a degree of recruitment intent.

    Of course if anyone is stupid enough to join the army simply because they’re good at Battlefield 1942 or because they’ve seen some stupid film they deserve everything they get (probably a bullet in the head, about 10 minutes after being deployed to iraq).

     

  65. 0
    ZippyDSMlee says:

    First off have you played any of the games in question? are that heroic??

     

    Secondly When they get out on their they will be in for far more of a reality shock/check than in any branch of civil service…….

     


    I am a criminal because I purchase media,I am a criminal because I use media, I am a criminal because I chose to own media..We shall remain criminals until Corporate stay’s outside our bedrooms..


    http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com

  66. 0
    Michael Chandra says:

    Personally I don’t worry about people that join by misconception. What I worry about is people of, say, sixteen years, who encounter a glorious image painted, an image of cool and brave, reinforced by the heroic games they show off, and for two years so blindly focus on this image that by the time they get in it takes so long to realize the truth that by the time they open their eyes, they’re already in too deep. If the army were to fight against giving off such an impression, they can use games all they want and I wouldn’t give a damn.

  67. 0
    Bengal3a says:

    Has anybody been to the Army Experience Center and actually asked the people that work there THEIR opinions on all of this stuff? Asked THEM if they are telling people that some video games are like actual combat?

    Lots of opinions based on lots of blogging and whatnot, but only way to really get "ground truth" is to go and talk to them. No filters provided by any media, left or right. If they give you bullcrap answers, then you oughta hammer them and say it here. If they give you good answers, you ought to give them credit and say it here.

    Question: Why didn’t they go to the Dave and Buster’s (?) next door and protest their extremely graphic violence video games?

  68. 0
    ZippyDSMlee says:

    Why? Because the army is trying to remain hip and gain the attention of witless brats?

    Sure some who join don’t really know what they are getting into but most of the brats are weeded out in boot camp the rest get honed with discipline and life skills that can not be found in mundane life.

    I am surprised people think you are a instant member of the army after you get recurtied …BAH between physicals and boot camp and other checks its more difficult to finish than people realize.

    Sure the army is not pure but its not villainous either, I can’t really say the same about those that blindly follow antiquated and self ingrandising "we are right they are wrong" BS.

    If you are going to protest protest on facutaul things that really mess with people like stoploss.

     


    I am a criminal because I purchase media,I am a criminal because I use media, I am a criminal because I chose to own media..We shall remain criminals until Corporate stay’s outside our bedrooms..


    http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com

  69. 0
    Fedule mk II says:

    Hmm.

    I’m not exactly sure I can get behind opposing the protesters on this one. Let me elaborate:

    – It’s true that (as we repeatedly have to point out to anti-game critics) not all videogames are intended for children, and that a large, significant, and vocal adult market also exists. However, and this is an important distinction, just about all children intend to play videogames, and will succeed.

    – As much as it is foolish to suggest that minors be legally prevented from purchasing M-rated games, it is equally foolish to suggest that a large number of them will not acquire and play them anyway.

    – Anything proclaiming "VIDEOGAMES!" in a mall will attract children, above points withstanding or not.

    – As for the use of videogames in the recruitment process… if any recruiter is suggesting that there is any similarity between war in videogames and war IRL (with the possible exceptions of plot, and that people occasionally get shot and die) then they are telling bare-faced lies and I would support the protesters on this basis alone if it’s true. Of course, we don’t know for sure exactly what role the "game center" is playing in the actual recruitment process. The name "Army Experience" does carry a certain suggestive quality, however…

    All of which said…

    – Using a game center to attract people to an otherwise ordinary recruitment center, on the other hand is… well, OK. The Army has every right to distribute information so long as it’s truthful (and to an extent, even if it isn’t). As long as they check IDs at the door, there’s really nothing to this story. If an adult is told, and believes, that war is anything like a videogame… well, they’re an idiot but it’s their own responsibility now.

     

    I don’t think the protesters are being stupid (and certainly not nearly on the kind of level that anti-game critics employ), but I think the Army is occupying an area here that is grey at best.

  70. 0
    Neeneko says:

    What concerns me is that they are probably trying to draw on imagry from the 60s when the police really were out of control in regard to arresting protesters.   So now old activists will hear ‘7 protesters arrested’ and mentally link it to the horrible things that happened to protesters back then.

  71. 0
    Kajex says:

    And of course, they’re peaceful over their arrests so they can be martyred and use themselves as a comparison to the "EVIL, WARMONGERING ARMED FORCES THAT ARE KIDNAPPING OUR CHILDREN WITH VIDEO GAMES" and so forth…

  72. 0
    Alex says:

    Is it legal to wear masks at protests up there? I know in some areas it’s not, that could be why they got arrested.

    Edit: Never mind, read this before the protest coverage.

    I’m not under the affluence of incohol as some thinkle peep I am. I’m not half as thunk as you might drink. I fool so feelish I don’t know who is me, and the drunker I stand here, the longer I get.

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