Protester Writes About Her Arrest at Army Video Game Recruiting Center

Last weekend GamePolitics served up live Twitter coverage as anti-war protesters marched on the Army Experience Center.

The high-tech recruiting facility in Philadelphia uses PC and Xbox 360 games to attract potential recruits.

As we reported, seven protesters were peacefully arrested when they refused an order by police to leave. One of those arrested, Elaine Brower, the mother of a U.S. Marine, writes about the experience for Op Ed News:

I myself, was part of a group of protesters who donned death masks and the names of fallen soldiers and stood directly in front of the AEC, which was at that point surrounded by police…

It seemed to me that the recruiters were becoming a bit unnerved, and the police were becoming extremely impatient… since the AEC is open to the “public” many demanded to go inside, but weren’t allowed…

After only one warning, the police decided to aggressively arrest seven of the protesters who were wearing death masks, peacefully standing in front of the AEC and not blocking the entrance.  Taken to a distant precinct, the civil affairs Captain vowed vengeance by trying to charge the seven with a “misdemeanor in the third degree.”  After 6 hours in the most deplorable conditions, they were released to return to court in June…

What is happening right under our noses is a transformation of the way in which the military plans on re-wiring the brains of kids at a very young and impressionable age to turn them into silent killers.  By allowing anyone from the age of 13 to 18 to handle a machine gun, or use games that promote violence, it creates a generation that is wired to kill and think that killing is something that is easy and sanctioned. 

GP: My observation was that the police gave at least two warnings; this can be seen on the video footage I took at the protest. In any case, it seemed like the masked protesters planned to be locked up in order to make their point.

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129 comments

  1. Good Lord says:

    "We have a new Lenin, and his name is Obama."

    That’s cute. You get that off a bumper sticker?

  2. jedidethfreak says:

    You say that Obama is right-of-center, but if that’s the case, how do you explain him sucking up to the extreme-left people in the example?  How do you explain him socializing American industries?  These are not right-of-center, no matter how you look at a situation.  We have a new Lenin, and his name is Obama.

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  3. ulix says:

    "There probably is a gun in almost every house, yet the gun crime rate is very low."

    The rate is one weapon in every fourth household. Which is the 4th highest rate in the world.

    Gun crime isn’t as high because Switzerland got one of the world’s lowest poverty rate, why use a gun to get something if you can just buy it?

    So you really can’t compare it to the US.

    In the US the easy accesibility of firearms is definitely worsening crime.
    In Switzerland the high rate of firearms in household’s isn’t.

    But it has absolutely nothing to do with the rate of gun-ownership, but everything with socio-political living conditions.

  4. a_pink_poodle says:

    I was aluding… you know what, I got confused myself. Of course these people are going to Fox News it to make it look like they are the righteous fighters of truth, justice and the American way!

  5. Ebonheart says:

    Sometimes these "Peaceful" protest are anything but. I remember about 3 or 4 months after going after the US declared "victory" in Iraq, that a few recruiting center, in the DC area, where vandalized and I think one had a molotov thrown throw it’s window, by these "peaceful protest. And wasn’t there one in I think New York or Pennsalvania that was bomb during the night?

  6. PHOENIXZERO says:

    Meh, she’s probably disconnected from reality like Cindy Sheehan.  A lot of these people keep wishing it was the late 60s/early 70s to either relive their youth or get in on something they missed. Nevermind that they come off as nuts. They need shrinks.

     


  7. Chaplain99 says:

    I’m confused by your sarcasm.  You thought this was an unbiased forum/site?

    "HEY! LISTEN!"

  8. Bennett Beeny says:

    "These simulations are sometimes used as recruiting tools because they give a somewhat accurate depiction of what the job is about using a technology that young people are now familiar with.  Sadly, we can’t simulate what it feels like to see your friends head blown off, but we can simulate with a fair degree of accuracy what is involved in the job."

    This is nonsense.  These simulations don’t simulate what is involved in the job.  They simulate what is involved in one specific and very small – area of the job: combat.  A combat simulation does not give an accurate portrayal of military life.  The most it can do is give an accurate portrayal of something like 1% of military life that a very few military personnel experience.  These simulations are used because they give an exciting, interesting and incredibly warped perspective on a career that is mostly boring and uncomfortable.  In reality (though not in the simulations) the bits that are exciting are also incredibly frightening, to such a degree that people who experience such moments are often psychologically traumatized for the rest of their lives.

    So please don’t insult our intelligence by telling us that combat simulations are accurate simulations of military life.

  9. Torven says:

    It was not in a place open to the public; it was in a private mall.  While malls do allow the public in, they are semi-public spaces at best.  You don’t have a right to free speech and assembly if the owner decides it because he is not the government and is not bound by the constitution.  He does have the right to have the police kick your ass out or arrest you because you are on his property.  It’s not that the laws have changed; it’s that the military has gotten smarter about where and how they recruit.

  10. Valdearg says:

    Ever think about reading before opening your mouth?

    He was saying in the scope of the WORLD, Obama is right of center. Just because America is a MODERATE country (Center-Right, my ass) he is on the left side of our spectrum. But, if you were to put him him the middle of a European Parliament, his political alignment would end up right about in the middle, if not slightly right of thier center. It’s all a matter of perception.

    Still doesn’t change the fact that the Republican Party is becoming nothing more than an extremist fringe, whether it be in America, or in the eyes of the rest of the world.

  11. Defenestrator says:

    With an overbearing mother like that, who WOULDN’T want to join the military to get out of the house?

  12. Zerodash says:

    Many Liberal hippies are the people who spit on soldiers and are even proud of their soft, weak lifestyle.  Soldiers represent much of what they hate- even though the military is a part of the government they so dearly want to wipe their ass and pay them free $$ every day. 

    Likewise, Conservatives have some strange fetish over soldiers as if they are infallible superheroes- even though the military is part of the government they so dearly claim is the root of all evil.

  13. Zerodash says:

    Obama is anything but right-wing.  The American people wanted a leftist and voted for one.  He is well on his way to nationalizing 3 US industries (health, auto, banking), has stated on tape his intent to "spread the wealth", releasing terror suspects, and is sucking up to Islamic regimes. Hardly right-wing policies, and the left in America loves him dearly.

  14. Werrick says:

    K, well, first of all, I object to the military using games to recruit. I think it’s a bastardization of the medium. I also don’t happen to believe that it would be particularily effective, though I haven’t seen the recruitment figures. I also think it’s dishonest to send the message to potential recruits that war is fun.

    I also think that if a place is open to the public, that people should be allowed to be there. Those protesters have the right to congregate, as long as they aren’t impeding or harming anyone else. I don’t know if this is true or not, but it’s my impression (at least) that in the last eight years it’s become almost unlawful to protest against military recruitment.

  15. GoodRobotUs says:

    Thing is, if she was arguing it was unethical to use Video games to recruit, then my sympathies might be a little more for her, but to say they are somehow ‘programming soldiers to kill’ is ridiculous, they are soldiers, was she expecting, flower arranging?

    As for Thompson, give it time, if it gets enough Media attention then you can be sure to see him hopping on the Bandwagon, he no more believes games to be ‘murder simulators’ than I do, but he does know a good photo-opportunity when he sees one.

  16. Speeder says:

    That is true, in the US there are no left-wing in the government, only right-wing and MORE right-wing (btw, not even real centre, just nearly centre right-wing…)

     

    Examples of president positions:

    Hugo Chavez: Left Wing

    Castros: Extreme Left Wing

    Lula: Centre

    George Bush (any of them): Extreme Right Wing

    Obama: Right Wing (just right wing, not centre, but not extreme either)

     

    In fact here in Brazil we saw the discussion between right wing and more right wing as extremely amusing, since here there are a significant amount of left wing, usually the discussion here is left against right (ie: true left, socialists and all…), altough we do have some extreme left parties that dislike the other left parties (altough it is usually amusing to see their commercials, they claim that they will do some outright impossible things, one claimed that he would conquer the US…???, he utterly failed at elections, with like 300 votes from several millions possible…)

     

    criadordejogos.wordpress.com

  17. Deamian says:

    Meanwhile, as army recruiters reach for new lows to fill in the ranks of the fallen in the Middle-east…

    Jack Thompson’s volatile spirit is unheard of so far… I suppose it’s ok if the murder simulator is distributed by a group of people trained to kill… Right Jackie?

     

  18. Speeder says:

    We have this problem here in Brazil, buying a gun is outright nearly impossible, and if you actually use your gun (even if it is completly legal) you are pretty much screwed…

     

    Here the government tried to completly prohibit guns, and utterly failed (even if the majority that voted against the law, would never buy a gun themselves because the price of everything that must be done to own one), because people understood that they need the right to have a handgun (what is still allowed) to defend themselves against the machine gun and grenade launcher toting criminals here (yes, the police commonly arrests people here and find military grade weapons… weapons that sometimes not even the military themselves has)

     

    criadordejogos.wordpress.com

  19. JDKJ says:

    I don’t think they’re real, honest-to-goodness, death masks taken from the face of a deceased. More like plastic masks they bought at a five-and-dime store.

  20. JDKJ says:

    I’ve also thought the same thing. There hasn’t been an active draft in the U.S. since the Vietnam War. Every one of the servicemen and servicewomen currently in active duty voluntarily signed up to serve. And, I’d imagine, they gladly accept the U.S. taxpayers’ money in the form of a paycheck and a host of benefits. But don’t hardly no one wants to accept the possibility or the fact of catching a bullet in the head. Like they’ve never heard of the term "risk of doing business."

  21. Conster says:

    Not sure if my comment disappeared or if I forgot to submit it… weird. Anyway, there’s some pretty messed up comments at the OpEdNews article – one of them even blames the military for Columbine and Virginia Tech.

  22. Chuma says:

    *pet hate*

    irregardless is NOT a word.  It is either irrelevent or it is regardless.

  23. Chuma says:

    To be honest, handling the plastic machine guns is going to be no worse than nipping to the local arcade and having a game of House of the Dead 4 or Time Crisis 4.

  24. Chuma says:

    Obama is one of the most left wing presidents that I have heard of, but compared to europe he is very much a centre position.  This is usually why opinions with republicans tend to clash on here as each thinks the other is taking an extreme position.

  25. LimaBravo says:

    Yeah Im sorry can we have some elucidation on the deathmask issue ?

     

    Did these liberal hippy halfwits have permission from the families of the dead soldiers or … what? Furthermore why in gods green earth would they disrespect the individual rights of these dead soldiers who clearly, irregardless of their families ‘opinions’, wishhed to serve.  Is descration of the dead acceptable to these people ?

    Last time I checked desecration of the dead was the worst possible thing you could do. 

  26. Bengal3a says:

    Alareth,

    She and her protest friends DID know that they were on private property. That just pissed them off all the more.

  27. Bengal3a says:

    Go to the Facebook fanpage for The Army Experience Center. Trust me. The conversations there are just as good as here!

  28. Bengal3a says:

    They will be back at the AEC.

    They hate the place, because they fear it.

    Imagine – a place where you can learn about the Army at your own pace – with no Army recruiter leaning over you, or lying to you or switchin’ your enlistment paperwork around, or winking at you when he asks if "you’ve ever experimented with marijuana before".

    Holy crap, you..you..might actually CONSIDER…just for a brief moment…that maybe…serving in the Army might POSSIBLY be a viable option for you.

    That’s nails running down a chalkboard. I hate that sound.

     

  29. Bengal3a says:

    Go to the Army Experience Center’s fanpage on Facebook. You can get MANY sides to this argument.

  30. GoodRobotUs says:

    It did cross my mind that her son chose to join the army, nobody forced him, and yet she seems to want to blame the fact her son is an individual who made his own choices on the Army, rather than the fact that he is his own person.

    Sounds, to me, like a mother who is bitter that her son didn’t do in life what she wanted him to do, and is lashing out at the entire establishment for it.

  31. Kajex says:

    Call me callous, or a dick, if you want to- I’m still going to say this.

    She’s doing her son a disservice by acting like such a fool and outright lying in order to make hearts bleed and eyes cry just so people will take her seriously. She ought to be fucking ashamed of herself for resorting to this whining.

    "OH, I was in prison for 6 hours- THIS is the kind of injustice my SON and all his military friends have to put up with- THIS is how cruel these recruitment centers are!" That’s all I’m hearing.

  32. MrKlorox says:

    She lost me at "death masks". WTF lady?

    The only deathlike thing about that mask is the perceived putrescence; and that’s only because it just plain stinks.

  33. Ambiguous says:

    Lol, I’m reminded of the peaceful protestors from the "World Peace" episode of Bullshit.  They thought they made one small connection with a security guard, and were like yay! success!

  34. Ambiguous says:

    I don’t really think that they are even using real games in order to get people to join.  They might play them, but no one is stupid enought o suggest thats what it would be like, and frankly, if someone believes that they deserve to get shot.

    I bet, they only use games as a networking tool.  My school often does this, where recruiters from various companies and agencies come out and play games with the students, while discussing their futures and handing out internships.

  35. EvilTikiMan says:

    While I agree that the whole matter of AoC is rather stupid and I agree with your general preposal which makes perfect sense. The unfortunet truth is that that would require more work on part of the law makers and such parties involved, and it is easier to make a flat out law that says exactly 14,16, or 18 rather then putting more effort towards dealing with case by case scenarios. While that seems rather lazy on their part, at the same time there are more important things that they have to deal with and deserve more attention and scrutiny


    . Now if only our congressmen and women actually realized that….

    Responsibility: Its time that the next generation takes up the reigns of power in our government, before the old fools who hold them steer this country of ours closer to capsizing. We must act before its to late to repair the damage.

  36. Austin_Lewis says:

    Yeah.  Probably because even they know how worthless she is. I’ve always said you’re pretty low on the totem pole if people don’t care to spell your name right in PR documents, especially at conventions and protests. Besides, like I said, if you want someone to speak on the horrors of war, get a real vet, not a rear echelon motherfucker.

  37. JDKJ says:

    And you even know how to spell the woman’s name correctly. Did you notice the protest group’s press release spelt it "Anne?" 

  38. JDKJ says:

    I agree. Six hours ain’t even long enough for them to justify swapping out your street clothes for an orange jumpsuit and a pair of them rubber slippers.

  39. Austin_Lewis says:

    I was just thinking; why the fuck would Ann Wright be a good speaker on the horrors of military service?  She’s REMF through and through!  She never saw a lick of combat, what the fuck does she know about it?  It’s like having Jack Thompson speak about professional integrity, its just silly.

  40. GoodRobotUs says:

    Ironically, they were probably in better sleeping conditions than many of the soldiers they are complaining about.

  41. Michael Chandra says:

    Hey, the whole 15-16 thing is bullshit. But there’s a reason a 30-year old can go around seducing an 18-year old and not a 14-year old.

  42. hellfire7885 says:

    "It’s like the whole idea that games like GTA deliberately train people to be killers, and yet not one single source has EVER explained WHY these companies would want to train up an army."

    Heavy metal artists asked more or less the same thing when they were accused ot telling their fans to kill themselves.


  43. Austin_Lewis says:

    Yeah, seriously.  Where’s the mall owner?  I’d be pissed off if people were protesting on MY property.

  44. Alareth says:

    A whole 6 hours?  Really?  I don’t know how anyone can come out of an experience like that and not be scarred for life …

    She doesn’t seem to grasp that her "Public" protest happened to be taking place on "Private" property.  Open to the public does not give you the right to do whatever you want.  The property manager would have been within his rights to have every single protester charged with criminal tresspass if if he/she/they wanted.

  45. Krono says:

    Also, deplorable conditions?  Are you shitting me?  Our prisons are some of the best in the world.  They should’ve just shipped them off to Thailand for a weekend to see a real prison.

    The funny part is I doubt they got anywhere worse than the booking area. 6 hours sounds just about right to me, to be the hang time required for the full booking process.

    -Gray17

  46. chadachada321 says:

    AoC is the biggest and stupidest bullshit I’ve ever heard. When a 16 year old is charged with RAPE for having consensual sex with a 15 year old, there is a problem there. There’s an AoC because people have this idea that when someone turns 14 or 16 or 18, they instantly are more mature and have the ability to fully "consent" at that point.

    Each case should be treated seperately to determine if both parties did in fact consent, not just say "You’re 15, you can’t consent to sex even if you want it and know the risks/potential consequences."

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  47. JDKJ says:

    Deplorable jail conditions. Spare me. I know folks who’ll cut their right-hand pinky finger off for a chance to move out of their hovel in a Soweto township and lay up for a while in an American jail. It’ll be the first time they’ve ever experienced air-conditioning and indoor plumbling or sleeping on bedding which wasn’t made out of cardboard and newspapers or infested with bed-bugs. Please, spare me.

  48. chadachada321 says:

    If someone in Switzerland morally objects to having a gun or doing combat work, there are other options they have, like community service or office-like army jobs for the same length of time. Women have to do something I believe, but they aren’t militarily conscripted. Women can volunteer for the military, but aren’t forced.

    And I agree. Everyone having a gun means that fewer would-be criminal are going to try and rob/kill. Why would I rob a house when there’s a good chance that they have a gun? On the converse side, I could easily rob a house in England and have a better chance of getting away, when the citizens have no way of defending themselves and no right to defend themselves.

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  49. Austin_Lewis says:

    I was shooting firearms at five, and I don’t go out and shoot people.  Silent Killers my ass. 

    But, much like PETA, these people lack sense and substance.

  50. Vinzent says:

    "What is happening right under our noses is a transformation of the way in which the military plans on re-wiring the brains of kids at a very young and impressionable age to turn them into silent killers. "

    I was introduced to real firearms when I was about 10 at summer camp, in the Boy Scouts, and the fact that my dad used to like hunting. Why haven’t I been wired to kill? We aren’t they protesting the Boy Scouts or summer camps which puts real guns into the hands of children?

    I think their moral outrage has overwritten their common sense, if they had any to begin with.

     

  51. Michael Chandra says:

    But there’s all the fun! Imagine the lady going to heaven, St. Peter asking her "so what did you do in your life that made it worth it?", she goes "I protested for a good cause, for which I got arrested and exposed the unjustice of!" and he’s going "… lemme see… which you lied about. So your greatest accomplishment was being a hypocrit, alright, if that’s all then down you go."

  52. Arell says:

    It endears her to other bleeding-heart protesters that think spending 6 hours in jail is a HUUUGE sacrifice for some random cause. 

    Sigh, as much as I hate hippies, I miss the 60s and 70s.  At least they knew how to stage significant public unrest.  Nowadays, protesters are little better than "weekend warriors," doing as little as they can on their free time, but using blogs and the media to make it look more serious.  They’ll probably never bother the recruitment center again, assuming that this one single act was enough effort to satisfy their sense of "justice."

  53. GoodRobotUs says:

    I can never quite figure these people out…

    One minute they are complaining that games train the soldiers to be better at what they do, the next minute they are complaining about the number of casualities. Talk about wanting your cake and eating it…

    It’s like those ‘drone’ fighters, that are controlled from several kilometres away by remote control, this means that the human being is considerably safer than if he/she were actually in the seat of the plane, the fact that it is helping keep someone alive is bad somehow?

    Now, considering the fact that Computer Simulations are mostly used for tactical training and to teach local customs etc to the troops, the whole complaint is amusing enough as it is, but it seems to me that even if it were true, that would mean these people would prefer a less well trained army that is more willing to put American troops in danger.

    It’s like the whole idea that games like GTA deliberately train people to be killers, and yet not one single source has EVER explained WHY these companies would want to train up an army.

    Lots and lots of accusations and absolutely no explanations, that seems to be stock and trade of these people.

  54. Austin_Lewis says:

    "It seemed to me that the recruiters were becoming a bit unnerved, and the police were becoming extremely impatient… since the AEC is open to the “public” many demanded to go inside, but weren’t allowed…

    After only one warning, the police decided to aggressively arrest seven of the protesters who were wearing death masks, peacefully standing in front of the AEC and not blocking the entrance.  Taken to a distant precinct, the civil affairs Captain vowed vengeance by trying to charge the seven with a “misdemeanor in the third degree.”  After 6 hours in the most deplorable conditions, they were released to return to court in June…

    What is happening right under our noses is a transformation of the way in which the military plans on re-wiring the brains of kids at a very young and impressionable age to turn them into silent killers.  By allowing anyone from the age of 13 to 18 to handle a machine gun, or use games that promote violence, it creates a generation that is wired to kill and think that killing is something that is easy and sanctioned. "

    I wouldn’t let them protest inside the AEC either.  Would any of the protesters allow someone to protest in their place of work? Absolutely not. 

    Also, they were warned twice, you can even see it on the video.  Nice falsehood there, Elaine.  What would your son have said to you lying to the public?  Also, deplorable conditions?  Are you shitting me?  Our prisons are some of the best in the world.  They should’ve just shipped them off to Thailand for a weekend to see a real prison.

    Also, where did you find someone allowing 13 to 18 year olds to handle a machine gun?  Where was there even a machine gun at all in the AEC?  You mean the big hunks of plastic that look like machine guns?  If that’s the case, where was your fervor over airsoft guns, the Area 51 arcade game, etc.  I nearly guarantee you, there is no functioning machine gun in that building.  I would also be willing to bet that no one under the age of 17 or 18 (they might let 17 use the AEC simulators with parental permission) has ever ‘handled’ the plastic machine guns, or been able to use the AEC to play a game that promotes violence.

    God, these people are so full of shit.   

  55. JDKJ says:

    Arrestee: Officer, you’ve got these handcuffs on my wrists too tight!

    Officer: Relax. They’re brand-new. You gotta give ’em some time to stretch.

  56. nightwng2000 says:

    Looks like either this is a moderated site and they haven’t gotten around to it, or, it’s moderated and they’ve blocked your post, OR, it’s been censored after posting.

    Considering that these organizations clearly "Contribute to the delequency of minors" by advocating, educating, and encouraging them to lie, deceive, and disobey authority figures such as the police as "moral" acts, I’d say I’m more likely to believe in the second two.

    Maybe someone should serve a Criminal Complaint on THEM.

    Nightwng2000

    NW2K Software

    Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

  57. Michael Chandra says:

    In our defense, her deliberately painting a false picture is the same as what they accuse the army of.

  58. David says:

    Except that she didn’t sound good, she sounded like a pompous ass.  "I, myself, aggressively arrested and placed in deplorable conditions as the police vowed vengence," isn’t exactly the kind of prose that endears people to you.

  59. Arell says:

    Hey, come on fellas, cut her some slack!  This was probably the highest moment in her life.  Bravely fighting the injustices of society, enduring suffering for their cause.  So what if she embellishes a bit?  It’s got to sound good, or else what was the point of staging a protest that practically nobody cares about?

  60. Drathari says:

    I registered just because I had to say that when did people start expecting that they should get more than one warning before action can be taken?

     

    They were asked to leave. They were then warned what would result in you failing to abide by the request to leave. They FAILed to follow the warning.

    CASE CLOSED.

    Seriously.

  61. PHX Corp says:

    I’m not touching that site with a 39 1/2 ft pole

    Watching JT on GP is just like watching an episode of Jerry springer only as funny as the fights

  62. Michael Chandra says:

    So, who’s going to register at that site and rub in the fact they were warned twice?

  63. Michael Chandra says:

    I dunno, there’s an AoC with a reason. Youth are more suspectable to certain imprints or something like that. Of course if they were actually using T-games that argument would apply.

  64. Michael Chandra says:

    But… Obama is right wing. Wait, this is like how you call the coast west of our west coast THE East Coast, right?

  65. Michael Chandra says:

    The problem probably is sometimes normal games are used, thus giving birth to the idea that they try to lure in kids with an image of fun and bravery, saving the world!, where reality isn’t that simple.

  66. JustChris says:

    Hell, in Switzerland every 18-26 year old is conscripted to army training, maybe even the women. There probably is a gun in almost every house, yet the gun crime rate is very low. I guess the army training suggests a small scale version of mutually assured destruction. Nobody wants to mess with anybody knowing that they can mess them up just as bad.

    GameSnooper

     

  67. robbway says:

    I’m glad that it was peaceful, but the protesters should be thankful for the time they were allowed to be there.  Neither the AEC nor the Franklin Mills Mall are strictly "public."  If the management asks you to leave, you must leave.  Ask any kid who was thrown out of a mall or "banned" from the mall.

    I also have to refute the "rewiring their brains" comment.  The brain is pretty much wired before you are 2 years old, and probably much closer to birth than that.  Some head trauma victims sometimes take years (if at all) to think "around" the "blockage" and move, speak, and/or write.  It is nowhere near as simple as the Op-ed states.

  68. KayleL says:

    Yeah, I am normally consider myself as a left wing, but this is where I don’t agree with the left wings.

  69. PHX Corp says:

    There’s some conspiricy theory(Constutiton party style) nuts on there too

    Watching JT on GP is just like watching an episode of Jerry springer only as funny as the fights

  70. insanejedi says:

    I recommend going to the website linked and read and possibly respond to the comments. This site is horribly left wing bias (but at least they admit it). These guys are almost left wing fanatics, to the point where they even say Obama is SOME HOW in the right (wing). To me, my question to them is "who is really being brainwashed here?"

  71. Coach says:

    Being a person that helps to produce interactive simulations for various agencies of the government, I’m more concerned that we help the people we send into harms way prepare for what they will face and give them a better chance at surviving it.  People who see these applications as trivializing the nature of warfare by making it fun are off the mark.  These protesters are under the false impression the military considers these simulations "games".  

    It is true that gaming technology is now being used to train soldiers, pilots, seal teams, the FBI, and countless other agencies.  Networked simulations can help ground troops in North Carolina rehearse missions with pilots in Nevada.  This saves millions of dollars in jet fuel and helps prevent real life mishaps.  The focus of these simulations is realism, not fun.  Just because we use the same technology as video games does not mean that these are in fact games.  We enable these people to learn from their mistakes without dying in the process.

    These simulations are sometimes used as recruiting tools because they give a somewhat accurate depiction of what the job is about using a technology that young people are now familiar with.  Sadly, we can’t simulate what it feels like to see your friends head blown off, but we can simulate with a fair degree of accuracy what is involved in the job.  To think the military is sitting in there telling recruits this is a game is an uneducated opinion.  People are so polarized in their opinions they don’t ever stop to consider the other side of the argument.  These are not video games. 

    I liken the protestors believing these simulators are video games to a film critic comparing a miltary training video to a movie.  One is meant to be entertainment, the other is not.  I never heard anyone complain the military was using movies to recruit people.  Ah well, this is almost as good as environmentalists destroying Dupont experiments aimed at improving the environment.  It’s Dupont, it must be insidious!  Get a brain or train the one you have…please.  We are trying to help people that have to go out there to survive.  Someday it might be someone one of the protesters knows.

  72. JDKJ says:

    Those were "death masks?" Here I was, thinking Casper the Friendly Ghost masks left over from Halloween.

  73. Neeneko says:

    Well, this does go to show that lies and hyperbola are not, as some would claim, the exclusive domain of right wing christian groups. Here we have equally uninformed left wing christian groups!

  74. zel says:

    What bugs me most is that if it were up to idiots like this, we’d have no military. Besides, once you’re 18 and old enough to join, its your choice, they should be glad its a volunteer army and not required as in some other nations.

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  75. BravO1 says:

    [quote]Im 100% against games being used as recruiting tools to persuade people to risk killing or dying for someone’s political agenda.[/quote]

     

    ^^^This

     

    Because the Department of [b]Defense[/b] is made up of 100% of "political agenda."  DoD has no other purpose except for that.[/sarcasm]

     

    You are entitled to your opinions as the people who have died for "political agendas" have fought for it.  I am in the military and using games as a requiting tool is fine by me as long as they are accurate.  These games don’t use god mode when they try to recruit do they?  As far as I am concerned, these games offer you more information on what the military is like as apposed to someone else with a bias opinion telling you what it is like.  I know death is bad, killing is bad, war is bad, but there is never peace with the lack of military force.  If you let people continually walk over you, they will keep doing it.  But if you show that your aren’t in the mood to be fucked with, they won’t do shit.  There are reasons why bully’s pick on the weak people, because they know that weak people have substantial lack of force.

     

    What would you do to have people [b]volunteer[/b] for the armed services?  If our Military is weak, the U.S.A. is weak.  How would you go about recruiting?  Be realistic.

     

  76. Pinworm says:

     She said the Air Support ROE was changed to any building with hostiles, including those with friendlies? Seriously?

    Give me a fucking break.

  77. Arimer says:

    So I just read an article about her protesting the military base when her son was first deployed.  In this article it states her son was 17 when he joined the Marines which means that it would have required signitures from the mother and father to allow him to join.   Which means she was perfectly ok with it as long as they were giving her son things but when his obligation was called then it became a problem.  

    Second,  She claims that her son told her that the militarys new policy in Iraq was to airstrike any building that has enemy fire coming from it even if US soldiers are inside.  I must have missed that policy when I was deployed.  A case of misunderstanding perhaps? Or just another Brower lie?

     

    I think we should organize flash mobs that whenever they protest we all just show up and randomly start yelling I love pie anytime they try to say anything.  Just think about that.  There are millions of Pies out there that we aren’t currently eating and that’s a travesty.

  78. Arimer says:

    So I just read an article about her protesting the military base when her son was first deployed.  In this article it states her son was 17 when he joined the Marines which means that it would have required signitures from the mother and father to allow him to join.   Which means she was perfectly ok with it as long as they were giving her son things but when his obligation was called then it became a problem.  

    Second,  She claims that her son told her that the militarys new policy in Iraq was to airstrike any building that has enemy fire coming from it even if US soldiers are inside.  I must have missed that policy when I was deployed.  A case of misunderstanding perhaps? Or just another Brower lie?

     

    I think we should organize flash mobs that whenever they protest we all just show up and randomly start yelling I love pie anytime they try to say anything.  Just think about that.  There are millions of Pies out there that we aren’t currently eating and that’s a travesty.

  79. CyanideSmoker says:

    Im all for protesting and such, but it seems this generation of protesters aren’t very peaceful. I understand they were just standing there, yelling in a Megaphone, with a few people standing around in white masks, but If I was at that Mall trying to eat or shopping, I would’ve yelled at them to ‘Shut the @%$# up!’

    Not to mention Im sure people who work at the Mall, say the Panda Express gal, were probally getting rather annoyed as well. Basically, they should have tried an approach with a bit more tact and consideration for the public. Perhaps organizing with signs and everyone in the white masks standing around and inside the AEC for a few hours? Instead of being obnoxious for 20 minutes?

    Again, Im neither for nor against the AEC. The Army needs troops, and they need to promote. Clicking into the popularity of Video Games was an easy choice, especially with the popularity of Military shooters. However, like the protesters, perhaps a little tact should have been used. Allowing kids as young as 13 to play (What Im sure is) M-rated game content ? Haven’t we been trying to get Video Games out of the political bonfire by making sure kids not of age don’t PLAY such content?

    However, in the end it comes down to the dollar. And they aint going to shut down a Several-thousand dollar promotional tool that works because a few protesters ‘Dont agree with it’. Unless this really, REALLY, tarnished the Army’s appearance in the public eye. Which I don’t think it did.

  80. jedidethfreak says:

    Not in any American prison or jail.  Prisoners here need to be kept comfortable, because they might start to feel bad.

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  81. Zero Beat says:

    In some places, the floor is also your bed and your toilet.

     

    "That’s not ironic. That’s justice."

  82. Ebonheart says:

    I’m all for peace, but protesting the military isn’t the way to do it. Free trade is a great way to do it. No way is a country going to attack another country who makes them rich. What always bothers me about these protest is the fact that most of those people if they got what they want and something bad happened the next day because the military is missing are going to clamer together demanding to know why there was no military in place to protect them.

  83. LimaBravo says:

    By logical escalation does this mean we stop teaching history?  Due to it promoting people fighting in the army ?

     

    Also irregardless, irregardless, irregardless.

  84. TBoneTony says:

    LEt the army do what they do so they could promote their training to those who want to join the army.

    If you don’t want to join the army, then just don’t join at all.

    If you protest, you might be protesting something that allows you to chose if you wanted to go to war or not.

     

    Before the days of Army recruitment, people were forced to go to war in the name of their country.

    World War 1, World War 2, Korean War, Vietnam War anyone?

     

  85. Bennett Beeny says:

    Your response reminds me of the Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times".

    I go with the protesters over the murderers.  I’m all for violent games being used to entertain, and although I do not for one minute believe that violent games make people violent, Im 100% against games being used as recruiting tools to persuade people to risk killing or dying for someone’s political agenda.

  86. Conster says:

    Generation that is wired to kill, or generation of manipulative protesters? I’ll go with killers over hypocrites. At least they have interesting stories to tell.

  87. Speeder says:

    To me, to Iraquis, Iranians, North Koreans, the people in the helicopter video (ie: a video of a helicopter firing at some people using a video screen instead of "live" aiming at outside), to all other people that think that US is a big bully, it all makes sense.

     

    But these seven protestors, altough they were right and whatnot in getting arrested if they wanted to, their statements and false headlines elsewhere NOW are being stupid, they are saying BS and acting like hypocrytes.

     

    criadordejogos.wordpress.com

  88. thefremen says:

     People protested "Ghost of Girlfriends past" because one of the stars is a raging Liberal. 

     

    There are way too many stupid people with way too much time on their hands.

  89. PHX Corp says:

    It’s the most stupidest protest to begin with

    Watching JT on GP is just like watching an episode of Jerry springer only as funny as the fights

  90. Zero Beat says:

    We have a provable lie, and the language and tone of the letter are probably enough to establish intent to defame, so this could be a slam dunk.

     

    "That’s not ironic. That’s justice."

  91. Zero Beat says:

    I would assert that anyone who thinks the army has live ammo in the mall’s recruitment center is delusional.  The most I could see is a few firearms that they have for the sole purposes of assembling and disassembling, if that.

     

    "That’s not ironic. That’s justice."

  92. Austin_Lewis says:

    I don’t believe for a minute anything she said.  Especially when it comes to the whole handling machine guns thing.  There’s no way the Army recruiters would bring M16s into a mall.

  93. zel says:

    I did a ride along with an officer in Tampa once and the Deplorable part came from the people getting arrested, dear god most of them smelled like they hadn’t showed in months. The waiting area had about 7 or 8 people at the time and the officer i was with had arrested someone who also stunk to high hell, we just kinda held back a laugh while in the car as we gagged and ran with the windows open trying not to be all rude to the poor guy.

    At least in my experience with TPD (i worked for the City’s IT department) they’re very accomodating and the only people treated badly are the people who are unruly to begin with. Anything ‘deplorable’ in the booking area of the jail could be traced back to the criminals, not the police.

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  94. Unruly says:

    I work as a clerk at my local police station, and one of my duties is to keep an eye on our arrestee processing room via camera while the officers have someone in there. Considering how I’ve seen some people act to officers that are just trying to explain the arrest process to them, it really wouldn’t surprise me if her "aggressive" police and "deplorable conditions" are just being told to shut up and having to wear handcuffs. Especially since I’ve seen people take swings at or immediately start screaming at an officer just for being told to stop talking on their cell phone and listen to what the officer is saying.

  95. Icehawk says:

    Agreed.

    Pretty much the entire 3 paragraph is twisted, and skewed.  It is a vague attempt to attempt to raise feelings and generate anger toward the recruitment office and the police (probably why they had themselves arrested anyway). Sadly there are going to be some that will beleive her though. 

    Well lady I am sorry you were miserable.. maybe next time you will think before taking part in a protest.

  96. hellfire7885 says:

    Considering the type of people protesting these days, to her deplorable likely means having her Iphone confiscated.


  97. Bengal3a says:

    Folks, I am no papparazzi. I was at the Army Experience Center that day. Her protest group was warned THREE times. The first warning was at 3:00pm. How do I know? The police announced it – and told the AEC staff- I saw it and heard it. Elaine Brower was standing right next to the Phila. Police Dept Lieutenant who was on the bullhorn. The 2nd warning was at 3:15pm – the Phila. Police told them "you will get your 3rd and final warning in 5 minutes, and if you refuse to leave, you will be arrested". At 3:20pm, they received their third warning. At that time, most of the protestors started moving off, but 7 or so didn’t move, and were arrested. It was pre-planned, and even the Phila. PD knew it.

    Deplorable conditions? Unless they wisked her down to the back alleys of Port-Au-Prince, Haiti to conduct dismounted foot patrols at night knee-deep in garbage and human waste, she doesn’t know what deplorable looks or smells like. (Been there, done that, got the gamma globulen shots…)

    The AEC (on the Internet and on the ground) is quickly becoming "ground zero" for the anti-military/anti-war movement in the northeast US right now.

    If you are interested in seeing this campaign in full swing, check out the Army Experience Center’s fanpage on Facebook. It’s rather interesting.

    You can also go to the various websites they (the protestors) have plastered all three stories that protest leaders Pat Elder, John Grant and Elaine Brower have written about the protest. Some website "headlines" state that "AEC Bows to Protestors", and "Protestors Shut Down the AEC".

    They shut it down all right – so bad that a dozen folks walked right through their crowd to come inside. Oh, and a Dad and Son went in to get some "no crap" info about possibly joing the Army. And two people actually committed 4 years of their lives THAT DAY (literally joined the Army during the protest) to protect the protestors’ right to call them fascists, tell them that "we hate you",     "f–k you", and chant about how Soldiers are trained to torture, rape, kill and..something else, there was so much they chanted! I think that block of instruction (torture, rape, etc.) was right after the "Consideration of Others" block of training back I got back in 1994. (Yes, I was there that day – I heard the protestors cursing the Soldiers. They will deny it, but it happened.)

    The AEC does NOT have M16s in the mall. We store tactical nukes instead. NO – the AEC has pneumatically operated (high pressure air) M4 rifle simulators that are part of the HWMMV simulator and the UH60 Blackhawk simulator. They do not shoot live rounds. They use a laser pulse. To do what? GO SEE FOR YOURSELF. Go and see if it’s "just a video game" or if it’s telling you visually the story of HOW REALLY HARD it is to be a Soldier today, but just because it’s really hard doesn’t mean that that is BAD. Ask any Soldier that works there – if you walk into the AEC with an open mind and the only thing you leave with is a better appreciation of just how much you really DON’T want to be in the Army (because it’s so hard)…well, maybe you leave appreciating the sacrifices of the people that DO serve. And that’s ok.

    In the end – Don’t listen to me – or them. Go to the Army Experience Center (if you are within a 2-hr drive of northeast Philly) and see the place, talk to the Soldiers who work there – THEN judge for yourself.   Their website is http://www.thearmyexperience.com. Best time to go is on a weekday after 4pm or SATs after 2pm. They are closed on SUN.

    Decide for yourself.

     

     

  98. hellfire7885 says:

    I really hope some cell phone paparazis were there and can debunk what she’s saying.


  99. chadachada321 says:

    If she goes much farther with what she’s saying, she could even be leaning towards libelous (as in, not protected) free speech!

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  100. Michael Chandra says:

    "Dear ms. Brower, you mentioned deplorable conditions. Could you be so kind to testify to us about those conditions so that if protocol was violated, we can take action? Also, you mentioned one warning only, which would have been reason to take action for, but video footage shows at least two warnings given and the police waiting for several minutes. We apologize for the misunderstanding.

    Sincerely,
    actual cops instead of fictuous ones."

  101. Austin_Lewis says:

    Did you know that an American prison is a far better place to live than the average citizen in Africa or some parts of Asia gets to live?  Deplorable my ass, just because you yuppies are used to your select-comfort beds.  You want to protest?  Take what you get coming to you.

  102. Kojiro says:

    Exactly what I thought, too.  She makes it sound like they were shipped to Guantanamo or something.

  103. Chaplain99 says:

    "…in the most deplorable conditions…"

    What, did you think prison was a NICE place to live?  Please.  XD

    "HEY! LISTEN!"

  104. Fedule mk II says:

    I was mostly supportive of the protesters, but as far as these seven go… they’re idiots.

  105. Krono says:

    Considering that she calls sitting around while being booked, "After 6 hours in the most deplorable conditions, they were released to return to court in June…" I’d be suspicious of quite a bit more personally. Particularly about stuff like this part: "Taken to a distant precinct, the civil affairs Captain vowed vengeance"

    -Gray17

  106. zel says:

    Ya man, i hate protesters that try and manipulate situations to make them worse and then try to slant it in their favor. What people forget is you DON’T have the right to protest WHERE ever you want to. 

    Honestly just makes them look like a bunch of idiots, how can you protest for peace while causing conflict?

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  107. Ashkihyena says:

    Very much it does, and thats the last person that you want to be quoting, ever.

  108. JDKJ says:

    "By allowing anyone from the age of 13 to 18 to . . . use games that promote violence, it creates a generation that is wired to kill and think that killing is something that is easy . . . ."

    Is it just me, or does this sound like she’s quoting Jack Thompson?

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