U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees (and everything else)

May 28, 2009 -

Suddenly, there's a good bit of discussion in Washington, D.C. about the possibility of a value-added tax, or VAT.

For the uninitiated, a VAT is essentially a national sales tax. As the Washington Post points out:

Common around the world, including in Europe, such a tax... has not been seriously considered in the United States. But advocates say few other options can generate the kind of money the nation will need to avert fiscal calamity...

A VAT is a tax on the transfer of goods and services that ultimately is borne by the consumer. Highly visible, it would increase the cost of just about everything... But VAT advocates say those negatives could be offset by using the proceeds to pay for health care for every American...

Should a VAT be enacted, it will tax every type of transaction involving a good or service. For gamers, that means disc-based and downloaded software, consoles, peripherals and even monthly fees for Xbox Live, Second Life and World of Warcraft.

The WaPo posits scenarios involving VATs ranging from 10-25% but concludes that a VAT is unlikely - for now.


Comments

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

Nothing quite as crappy as the value added tax. Who do you want to tax? Every single person who adds value to a product? I guess we want to discourage people from turning raw resources into products that have value to human beings.

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

Exactly! A VAT is not just a tax of the sale of a final good at your local Walmart. It is assessed on anything that adds a "value" to the product being made, including transportation and services.

For example, if you are a manufacturer of a complex product that, say has hundreds of parts, each time a part is installed on the product, assuming that part increased the products value, a "value added" tax would be imposed. Further, once the product leaves the factory and is placed on the freight train, its taxed. Once it is drop at the FOB station and picked up by the local FedEx, it is taxed. And then it gets taxed one more time when the product sells. Now who do you think picks up these taxes that are applied and payed along the way? We the consumer in the form of a much higher price!

The reason people are quoting a 25% tax rate, rather than the VAT rate of 10%, is because this is an average price increase that we, the consumer, would incur on an average product over its production cycle as a result of the multiple applications of a VAT. Lets not forget this is a tax on purchases you make with dollars on which you have already paid Federal and State income tax. And then it is subjected to your state sales tax of 9.25% (California) plus what ever your local city and county add, usually about 0.5%.

So lets add up a quick little tax total for an average California resident: say your in the 28% federal income tax bracket. You pay 11% state income tax. That's 39%. Now there is FICA 7.65% for 47% of your income gone. That's before any sales tax! So on a dollar earned you keep 53 cents. So to "take home" one dollar you must earn $1.89.

Now lets spend that money: Lets say we need to buy a new iPod Touch. It was $399, but now with the federal VAT its about $498. Now we need to add the CA state and local sales taxes of about 9.5% for a whopping $546.13. Finally lets figure out how much we must earn to pay for this new iPod: $546/0.53 (from above keeping 53 cents of every dollar earned) = $1030.43. So with a VATs we will need to earn about $1000 to buy a $399 iPod. WOW!

A few other notes:

3% of our taxes already goes to national healthcare. Its part of the FICA tax.

And don't forget, the evil Bush tax cuts are expiring at the end of the year so everyone's taxes are going up and the above calculation will be even worse.

CHEERS!

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

Guess what doesn't have a VAT tax? WAREZ

I haven't gone the WAREZ route in years but a VAT tax might send me back to it again.

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

I'll support public health care when public health care doesn't cover people who decided to smoke themselves to an early grave. They can have their pain killers to the bitter end as the lung cancer slowly kills them, but fuck them getting a new lung on my dollar.

Same goes for people who drank themselves into liver failure.

Same goes for every addict who smoked/shot/snorted himself brain dead.

Same goes for every fatass who wouldn't get off the couch and eat cheaper, healthier meals to save his own god damned life.

Same goes for every dipshit who drank soda constantly till his pancreas shriveled up and died.

The people who spend most of their lives killing themselves can piss off, they don't deserve the medical care. Then with the savings from that, you can refund some of my money.

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

Ah but that's the point isn't it?  Government involvement will not lower medical expenses, but it will make it less expensive for the patient.  BUT as a patient you may be denied care if you are, as per your example, a smoker or heavy drinker etc. 

That means those people will have to pay thier own way without government assistance, but medical costs will go so high because the Medical Industry will have permanent customers and people without government assistance will not be able to afford medical treatment at all. 

What does this do?  This will alter behavior through punitive government measures for those who don't step in line.  That's fucking mind control bullshit.  And of course you go right along with it just because it's a freedom that you choose not to use.  You have to remember that smokers and drinkers are paying taxes too shithead.  But will they get treatment that thier taxes pay for?  Not with dickheads like you backing a system like this while demanding only people with certain behavior deserve treatment. 

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

The only treatments that can be denied to them are for problems stemming from their actions.

As for them paying taxes and not getting something in return, that happens all the fucking time already. I don't want universal healthcare in the first place.

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

You mean like, not being a safe driver?  Having unprotected sex?  Playing sports?  Mountain climbing, sky diving, surfing, skating, running marathons.  Or what about the lack of so called good behavior?  Like demanding a certain amount of exercise?

BTW just because motherfuckers screw us with taxation is not any reason to support further abuses by elite political class on the common underclass. You may not want universal healthcare, but my response is to your flippant comments about so called fat asses etc. Those people would probably pay more into taxes than you would since you apparently don't buy junk food, cigarettes, booze, or anything else fun.

Yet you would deprive them of medical care and demand a rebate of your money from the savings of that denial of service.  The sad part is, that's the exact attitude politicians try to foster.  They pit us aginst one another. We, like dumbasses, fall for it then they go on with the business of taking over our lives and we fucking thank them for it.

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

With the exception of two activities you mentioned, all can be done reasonably safely.

I'm sorry though, but I have yet to see someone find a safe way to consume cigarettes in a fashion that does not cause permanent and at least to my knowledge irreversible lung damage.

It takes a lot of alcohol to destroy your liver, unless you are an idiot and mix medications by accident.

If you want to fuck your brain chemistry over with heroine, meth, cocaine, or any of the plethora of drugs, be my guest, it your choice its your life, but its your responsibility to live with those consequences. You know what though, everyone gets one paid course of drug rehab, but you have to stay their till your done.

If you want to eat food and sit in your house and slowly let your body turn into a giant pile of jello fine. If you want to have those stents put in, then you are going to go on a fucking diet so that the money spent on your inevitable quad bypass isn't wasted because six months later you are back on the couch killing yourself again.

I'm sorry but for years i have watched members of my family bitch about health care as they have crossed the 300lbs mark. I try work out everyday, I drink soda in moderation, I drink water, I cook my own meals when I get the chance, I take the stairs, I walk across campus, I don't buy shit I can't afford, I actually try to put money away into savings when I get the rare chance, I try to help people around me, and I do my god damned best to my good sane decisions.

Pardon me If I'm a little fucking bitter about having to constantly support that small minority of assholes who claim the right to do what they want, and it is their right and I fully support them in that right, but then demand that I bear part of the burden of the consequences of their actions.

As I said before, you chain smoke your entire life knowing full well the risks of smoking. You deal with the consequences yourself.

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

I agree with you for the most part, however...

IF we were to do socialized healthcare, which I don't think we should, I'd want it to be done this way:

I think that if the government were to step into the healthcare, they should be a 'dumb' provider. Meaning that they simply pay most of the costs of equipment, and provide wages for doctors, then set a cap on each type of doctor's pay that is adjusted every 5 years or so to something like 50% over the average amount the doctors make per patient.

So basically the government would buy the MRI machine, pay the MRI tech that makes 65,000 a year about $30,000 of it.

Basically, doctors would not be able to overcharge their patients, would get rid of equipment costs, and would still have enough pay to make the career path alluring (It is one of the most hellish career paths you can choose, both in education and in practice).

Annnnd, best part is people would still be paying some money to the doctors, (but there would be providance for people that could not pay), the government would not regulate healthcare on the patient level, and it'd be less taxes than a full blown 'big government pays all'.

 

I too have watched people trying to kill themselves with cigarettes, food, and other drugs. It is ridiculous that we have not just outright banned cigarettes, and started fining the fire out of anyone that's found doing so.

I will not buy securom games. http://www.wolvenmoon.com/sharedfiles/message1.jpg and http://www.wolvenmoon.com/sharedfiles/message2.jpg

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

You win 3 internets.

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

Either it's free for everyone or free for no one.

I'm all for free healthcare since my father lost his job and now we can't even afford medicine for my mother, who has to go through with chronic pain daily.

Usually those who say the healthcare system is good enough are able to afford it or have insurance, and could spit on those who don't.

Only wayI could see it turning into a nightmare is due to all the hypochondriacs we have thanks to news hype.

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

You have internet, you can find out how to get on SSI or SSDI.

I will not buy securom games. http://www.wolvenmoon.com/sharedfiles/message1.jpg and http://www.wolvenmoon.com/sharedfiles/message2.jpg

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

LoL, looks like US is turning into Sweden after all... ;)

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

Boo national healthcare, boo vat tax.

How about paying our current medicare/medicaid doctors parity with what non medicare/medicaid doctors make? We already have a national healthcare system - it's not supported because it's screwing the doctors over!

A normal clinical physician that doesn't accept medicare/medicaid patients makes around 130,000 dollars a year. If they accept those patients, they end up having a TON of new administrative costs, AND they go down to 85-90,000 a year. They also are packed EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK. So they work harder for less money, with an 8 year degree. Sounds fun, huh?

What most people don't get is that the U.S.'s healthcare system is pretty damn good. I have cysts in my knee. I scheduled an appointment with a specialist on a monday, tuesday I was in. Two hours later that tuesday I had an MRI, and that friday the results were interpreted, I was brought back in, and found out they were benign (and quite odd at that).

In canada, home of the 'model' socialized healthcare system, a man needed an emergency surgery to cut part of his skull off, because his brain was swelling and he would die if it hit that part of his skull. (I don't know the medical terms for this, but it was a large section at the back of his head.) This was done on the double, but three years later the man did not have a plate in his head to protect his brain - a small object hitting his head would have killed him. However, he was on the 'waiting list' for care!

Because the plate insertion was not for a 'life threatening' condition as determined by the gracious canadian government, and was complex and costly, he got put into beauracracy hell. I don't know how his story ended, but I damn sure know that an MRI is a costly procedure, and that my insurance covered it to where I paid a grand total of $80. I also was given a tour of the control room, as it was near the MRI center's closing time.

Also remember that people don't value what they get for free. Our government cannot be counted on to 'go the extra mile', and a doctor being paid 40,000 less a year than his colleagues, and working three times as hard, is not going to be one you want working on you. Remember that our government didn't require schools to teach children with disabilities (physical OR mental) until the ADA in the early 90s. What kind of crap is a government healthcare system going to pull?

------------

On the VAT

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This is why I don't order out of the EU. I'll be perfectly happy to spend my money on singapore/brazillian software and hardware if this gets added. All it'll do is get gamers to spend less, and spend it on sources that don't have a VAT. Maybe the government could look at oh, taxing businesses exclusively and not taxing citizens, so that the IRS was downsized hugely? How about cutting down other excess administration? Maybe they could even *gasp* pay the politicians normal wages!

Oh oh oh! Heaven forbid they provide incentives for more MMORPGs to be developed and hosted in the U.S., and tax the companies' revenue.

...Or they could just drive them all out with ridiculous price hikes. I don't buy console games because of the $10/game hike. $12.50 and I'll stop playing pay-games altogether.

It could be the ridiculous VAT that's preventing european hardware devs from really taking off.

I will not buy securom games. http://www.wolvenmoon.com/sharedfiles/message1.jpg and http://www.wolvenmoon.com/sharedfiles/message2.jpg

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

Hmmm.

While in general, I'm one of the only GP commenters who will go YAY TAXATION at the drop of a hat (being the recipient of an excellent state-sponsored education will do that, to some people anyway), there's one huge gap in the argumentation for this VAT:

Universal healthcare wouldn't need additional funding. Government spending on healthcare in the US *already* exceeds, per capita, what most single-payer healthcare systems cost in other countries. If the US were to do a proper, thorough reform, looking at best practices worldwide (wouldn't even have to be single-payer, there are hybrid systems that work quite well, AFAIK), the government could save a bit of money, and the citizens would get better care AND save significantly on health insurance costs. It's a win-win situation, unless you happen to be a private health insurance company.

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cook_County,_Illinois#Secession_movements

 

Chicago's Cook County already has this tax! LOL you all think you had it bad, now you all brought Chicago to the White House.

10.25% Tax Rate we have it already!

Jimmy Carter 2.0

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

Our current leaders really should study history.

Taxation was one of the driving points of the American Revolution. Sure, it was being taxed by England without being represented in Parliament - but how many people today really feel like they are being represented by their Congresspersons? Replace "represented" by "shafted" and sure, I can relate.

All the hand-wringing and moaning in Washington about "how are we going to pay for this?" Here's a tip: don't pay for it. Cut spending. Cut some of those ridiculous, unnecessary programs and services. Fire unneeded and redundant government workers.

The solution isn't impoverishing an entire generation of Americans into third world status with taxation.

And yes, at this point, that is a risk. For those of you who think it couldn't happen to America, again, I strongly suggest you pick up a history book. Start with the reasons for Rome's collapse. Here's a hint: one of the big ones was extreme taxation and the problems it caused.

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

I live in California and as for the VAT or flat tax, if and only if it lowered your income tax would I be for it.  Two things, if you ship a bunch of manufacturing jobs overseas and import illegal cheap labor, you lose your tax base very quickly.  That same tax base in past decades helped us pay fro the systems that today are a ghost of what they used to be.  The best thing about a flat tax is that everybody pays the same percentage, or what I would call "fair".  Oh, I know that people will say that it affects the poor disproportionally, but how could that be if it is the same across the board.  Not to mention that if a particular group isn't paying taxes due to the fact that they are payed under the table, yet continues to utilize social programs, they end up contributing whether they want to or not.  Since our government won't bust the employers for not hiring legal people and allows them to make a profit on the taxpayers backs, I think a flat tax will fix the problem.  The funny thing is Steve Forbes brought this up years ago.

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

Sweet! Another tax on purchases on top of our state sales tax of 6% (in Michigan), awesome! Gah! Washington DC is still in dire need of an enema. >_<

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

So, if I'm right, they want to add a VAT and knowing the government, keep this tax stacked with everything else.

Not cool.

 

I'm also surprised no one has mentioned the fairtax yet.  No income or paycheck taxes, just a 23% inclusive sales tax  on goods sold at the retail level, NOT tacked on at every stage of production (this is different from VAT).  Oh, and everyone gets a prebate by the government for the amount of tax they're expected to pay during the month up to poverty level.
If you spend more in tax than the prebate, then by definition you are not in poverty.

Seems simple enough...

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

 LOL HEALTHCARE. VAT tax would go to the next war that looks delicious.

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

People are going to be voting the pols out if they pass the vat tax(or soda tax or even upping the Beer tax) if it happens

Watching JT on GP is just like watching an episode of Jerry springer only as funny as the fights

America has just became its own version of the Jerry Springer Show after a bizarre moment in Florida involving a carnival worker.

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

Well Australia has a GST of 10%, which is exactly the same as a VAT except for a different name.

Thing is though that the Federal Government collects it... but they can't use any of it. All of it, absolutely all of it, gets divided up between the states for their use in various projects.

Which in my mind is a decent idea. Unfortunately our state governments are utterly incompetent and waste the money, and there is no set algorithim for dividing the money up, so it comes down to politics.

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

10-15% in VATS is abysmal, Bethesda needs to stop screwing it up with each patch. :)

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

I think we should start an ECA/Fox news endorsed vat tax TEA(taxed enough already) party to protest agains the VAT tax, I may sound like rick santelli here. but I dont want a national sales tax

Watching JT on GP is just like watching an episode of Jerry springer only as funny as the fights

America has just became its own version of the Jerry Springer Show after a bizarre moment in Florida involving a carnival worker.

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

I like it - "few other options can generate the kind of money the nation will need to avert fiscal calamity."  Here's one - Don't spend money you don't have.  That's why California is in the crapper, and they taxed everything they could get their grubby mitts on!

 

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

My CTRL-F function has not found any use of the Fallout 3...was it just too obvious?

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

Either you tax income, or you tax spending - NOT BOTH.

 

And "universal healthcare" sucks. I come from a place which has this and I know what it is.

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

lol unless you live in the uk...

approx 30% on income + 'national insurance' taxes straight out of your paycheck.

THEN 17.5% VAT on everything you buy.

THEN you get charged tax on any interest you earn on savings in the bank.

THEN when you die you pay 50% inheritance tax.

 

 

hmm i wonder why i want to move abroad.

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

I thought the death tax was still gone in America? I know it used to be here (thank the Democrats) but then was gotten rid of at one point...

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

Most people touting the 25% VAT number are ones who saying using it would exempt anybody making under 200K from Federal income tax.

If this is true, I'd have no problem with paying a 25% VAT tax if Uncle Sam isn't taking 33% of my paycheck every month.

 

"You know what I wish? I wish all the scum of the Earth had one throat and I had my hands about it."

"You know what I wish? I wish all the scum of the Earth had one throat and I had my hands about it."

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

A VAT is probably a good way to pay back your defecit, but there's no way that people would support it.

Odd that you're willing to pay a high percentage in tips in resteraunts, but shy away from tax, though.

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

best way to pay back .....

 

reduce taxes, get government out of private industry and let it do what is supposed to do.  when allowed to actually work capitalism helps. 

 

I am not willing to GIVE (more like steal from me) to people who spend recklessly on BS.

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

I'm not FORCED to tip, and in some instances, I don't tip at all.

I went to an Outback Steakhouse a while back, and ended up waiting with my wife for some of our friends for nearly an hour.  So, I continued getting free water, but the woman refused to bring us more than one loaf of bread.  So, when we got up to leave, I left her no tip whatsoever, and wrote the reasoning behind it on the back of the receipt.  She provided poor (and oftern RUDE) service, and so I gave her no tax.  The government, on the other hand, provides RUDE service and DEMANDS I pay 50% of my income, property taxes, 6 to 8 percent sales tax, various taxes pertaining to my firearms, and I can't opt out of it because few of the services ever reach me in any positive way.

Your point is moronic and without merit, in other words.

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

If you can't see the difference between a voluntary tip and a government taxing you, there is no hope for you.

~~All Knowledge is Worth Having~~

~~All Knowledge is Worth Having~~

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

That's for one meal if the service is good, not for everything I buy ever.  You don't tip somebody when you buy a Kit Kat, or a magazine etc.

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

back in the 80's (i think) canada enacted a federal GST (goods and services tax), which if i understand is equivalent to your proposed VAT. In addition to that, most of our provinces have thier own PST (provincial sales tax). Some provinces have a HST (harmonized sales tax) but that's just a blended PST and GST situation that cuts down on some paperwork at the retail and government level.

Where i live, Manitoba, we've almost always had a 7% PST and 7% GST. Just over the last few years has the GST fallen. It's now at 5%. So whenever i buy a $9.99 item, i pull $11.19 out of my pocket. It's just the way things work.

The WaPo estimates of 10-25% are ignorant commentary meant to scare you. It probably wont be anywhere near that high, since your already high yearly income taxes already pay for many of the things our GST and PST are meant to pay.

I know you americans fear tax, but seriously, you have to do something. You sat by for 8 years and let Bush run your country into the ground. Sure you complained about it, but you still let him do it. Now it's time to pay what it's going to cost to get your numbers back into the black.

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

In Pennsylvania I already pay a 6% sales tax on "non necessity" items.  The only things that are exempt are clothing and most foods (treats/snacks and sodas/sports drinks are not exempt).  Other states, like New York, tax everything.  I don't agree with an extra tax for any reason.  If the goverment needs money, they can get all the money they need by cutting out all the BS they put through each year.  Some senators and reps actually take federal money and use it to advertise in the districts.  That's right, they're using your tax money to smear their faces on your TV screen, blare their voices on your radio, and harrass you with automated phone calls.  There is a metric crapton of useless and wasteful spending being done in the U.S. government, but it all gets hidden because it's tacked onto "must pass" bills, bills that in their original form actually serve a purpose to the average tax payer.

The rest of the country is buckling down and looking for ways to save money, the U.S. government can easily do the same.

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

In Alabama sales tax applies to ALL sales so I'm paying taxes on food and clothing as well.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

I believe an independent study a while back found that a significant percentage (over ten percent, as I recall) of all taxes collected went to keeping elected officials in office (or attempting to, at least).

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

  No, the 10% number is what Rahm Emmanuel's brother reccomended.

  Look just because you've been getting financially raped by your government and have learned to live with it doesn't mean I should just accept it.

  I just crawled above the poverty line last year but if the price for everything went up a minimum of 10% my entire fucking budget goes down the tubes and I'm effectively poor again.  And I sure as fuck don't want to wait for a government rebate check after a year has gone by so I can finally buy the rest of my groceries.  The last thing I want is the motherfuckers who run the Post Office, DMV, and IRS to be in charge of the medical care I will be allowed to recieve.

That's right US Government, get your hand out of my pocket and stay out of my life.

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

I don't get the problem.  The rich pay more because they buy more expensive things, and the money comes back around to social programs for the good of everyone.  You'd be exempted from a large amount of your income tax -- thousands of tiny payments over the year instead of one lump sum -- and if the applied system were anything like our Canadian Goods & Services Tax, you'd probably even see returns on your form.  (Another minor problem is that "VAT" is a highly unappealing name.  "GST" doesn't have that menacing ring.)

10% might sound high, but I've been paying 15% between the federal and provincial taxes my entire life, and I've never heard of anyone getting ruined by it.  Not to mention you're paying way more on fuel taxes, but you don't seem to cause commotions for that.  Aren't you yankees supposed to be richer than us, anyway?  Quit bein' greedy and share a little with your common folks.  They can't all be unscrupulous stock traders or house-mortgaging shortchangers, can they?  (Really, are they?  Because if they are, then I don't think I want to move south any more.)

---


The Mammon Philosophy

---
Fangamer

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

not ruined YET.   

Starting adding up the taxes.  Current tax cuts are set to expire, deductions for mortgage and charitable contributions are up for debate, talk of taxing foods the government deems harmful (i.e. soft drinks, beer, any thing with sugar or trans fat).  will they tax beef because the cows harm the environment (think not  think again)

Smokers - taxes increased about 200% recently

gas - possibly going up .... some think it should hold steady at $4.00 a gallon min. at all times.

social security / medicare going broke - but we still pay for it.

fed, state, county and city taxes won't go away with the VAT it will be added on.

sampling of current taxes - these won't go away either - they never do.

Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
Capital Gains Tax
CDL License Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Court Fines (indirect taxes)
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Interest Expense (tax on the money)
Inventory Tax I
RS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax (going up soon)
Local Income Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Road Toll Booth Taxes
Road Usage Taxes (truckers)
Sales Taxes
School Tax
Septic Permit Tax
Service Charge Taxes
Social Security Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Toll Bridge Taxes Toll
Tunnel Taxes
Trailer Registration
Tax Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers’ Compensation Tax

ENOUGH ALREADY

 

 

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

Michigan doesn't have any toll roads =D

But I see what you mean. 1000000% agreed

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

I pay 50% of my income in taxes this upcoming tax year, as well as sales taxes, and that doesn't even begun to take into account property taxes and whatnot.  How is THAT fair?  

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

I would love to see some documentation showing that HALF of your income becomes tax.

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

keep YOUR receipts and paychecks for a year.  add up everytime you pay a FEE or tax.  Fees paid to government are just taxes.  I pay 31% in payroll taxes.  this doesn't include real estate, vehicle, sales, etc.  when all is said and done people are easily paying 50% in taxes.

It is NOT my job to provide for everyone in this country.  too bad so sad.  I came from poverty, I took NO help, I am doing well and I help who I choose to help through my church and community.  It is not for the government to decide who gets my hard earned money.

Time to get rid of ALL SOCIAL PROGRAMS.  I can see helping the truly handicapped and truly indigent elderly & children.  If you are a semi-healthy 16 year old +  get off your butt and do SOMETHING or suffer the consequences.

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

And like the user above said, don't pay for TEENAGE WHORES (sorry, teen moms...) and other idiots that are too stupid to help themselves.

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

I pay nearly 50% income taxes.  Then add on the cost of everything else, and you'll see why I'm pissed.

Re: U.S. VAT Tax Would Affect Games, Systems, Online Fees ...

I don't get the problem.  The rich pay more because they buy more expensive things, and the money comes back around to social programs for the good of everyone. 

 

see here in the uk i get frustrated. Having a good well paid (but not incredibly well paid) job, i dont really see why i should then pay more than somebody else...

Surely we are taxed for the same services etc (healthcare garbage disposal etc)..

If anything, the fact that (here in the uk) i get private healthcare through my job, if anything means that im less of a drain on the system since i wont be using publically funded doctors etc. Its frustrating when even the guys who collect the garbage round here do an incredibly bad job (knocking things over n just leaving it etc). Or the police for example.. Well when my girlfriend called them because some random drunk off the street was at her front door TRYING TO KICK IT DOWN (smashed all the glass panes out and everything, and splintered the rest to pieces ), it took them a whopping 45 minutes to respond. Wow. Great f***g use that was.  I dont really get where my cash is going. 

well actually.. i do. Down the road the road there is an estate full of teenage mums and their drug dealing partners using the state funded 'dole' or 'job seekers allowance' (you have to go to one interview every 6 months to qualify... ONE.. and you can just act like a dick and not get it on purpose). They dont work and yet they seem to somehow all have money for a £150 pair of sneakers and £100 sports brand name clothes, and sky television.

Then there are the others who work for a week and then get 'statutory sick pay' for 6 months as they are away from work with 'stress'. Then when thats up they suddenly get better for a week, and the same thing happens again at a different company. Oh n then they sue the old company with a 'no win no fee' claim for something like 'damaged hearing' if they were in an industrial environment. Y'know , damaged hearing where the test consists of saying 'can you hear me' and they say 'no' so they say 'well your hearing must be damaged then'.

 

AGGGHHH. so frustrating.

 
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PHX Corp@MP you can add me on XBL and Nintendo Network if you want, I go under TrustyGem(Same gamertag as on Steam)12/26/2014 - 2:01pm
CMinerI blame North Korea.12/25/2014 - 11:49pm
MechaTama31For the last few weeks, the GP site fails to load about 2/3 of the times I try.12/25/2014 - 11:13pm
MaskedPixelanteOK, is GP having trouble loading for anyone but me?12/25/2014 - 9:21pm
Matthew Wilsonits a bunch of script kiddies. ddosing is one of the easiest thing to do,and most companies can not stop it sadly.12/25/2014 - 5:05pm
MaskedPixelanteI like Nintendo as much as the next person, they're pretty much the only company putting out the games I want to play, but that was pretty embarassing to have NNID go down due to overuse.12/25/2014 - 4:35pm
MaskedPixelanteSee? It's NOT a repeat of last year's fiasco.12/25/2014 - 4:22pm
PHX CorpLizard squad is responsible for The XBL/PSN shutdown https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSpZvsoWvig12/25/2014 - 4:17pm
IanCOh shut up bitching about Nintendo. At least they advised people to downloading updates before the big day. Sony/MS? Not a peep.12/25/2014 - 3:50pm
MaskedPixelanteBoth PSN and Xbox Live are down. Since I'm sure Sony and Microsoft have better online support than Nintendo did last year, this isn't from "everyone logging onto their new devices all at once".12/25/2014 - 3:48pm
prh99John Romero's Christmas present, a custom Icon of Sin sculpture. http://www.pcgamer.com/john-romero-gets-the-icon-of-sin-for-christmas/12/25/2014 - 3:37am
Matthew Wilsonthe interview will be on youtube/xb1/ andriod today.12/24/2014 - 1:05pm
james_fudge1900's?12/24/2014 - 12:56pm
james_fudgeYeah we could go way way back :)12/24/2014 - 12:56pm
E. Zachary KnightCopyright law in general has been broken since at least 1976. Could be even earlier than that.12/24/2014 - 12:24pm
james_fudgeWhat he said :) They want to make it worse than it already is.12/24/2014 - 12:14pm
Papa MidnightDMCA has been broken since 1998. Good luck getitng Congress to do something about it.12/24/2014 - 11:39am
Craig R.At least they owned up to the mistake. But doesn't change the fact that DMCA is thoroughly broken.12/23/2014 - 5:23pm
MaskedPixelanteSpeaking of Dark Souls OMG I'M MAKING ACTUAL PROGRESS WTH IS THIS WHAAAAAAA12/23/2014 - 10:49am
MaskedPixelantehttp://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=144500932&postcount=740 Yup, DSFix was part of an unrelated take down, and is being resolved.12/23/2014 - 8:04am
 

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