Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on Amazon

May 29, 2009 -

Is this the next RapeLay controversy?

Although interactive DVDs aren't traditionally thought of as video games, they would appear to fall into something of a gray area between movies and games.

That may be an academic argument, but, in lodging a new protest against online retailer Amazon.com, woman-centric website Feministing treats Stockholm: An Exploration of True Love as a video game:

it looks like another game involving violence against women seems to have"slipped" past [Amazon's] radar. "Stockholm: An Exploration of True Love" is a game that allows the user to experience,

    "...a terrifyingly vivid exploration of Stockholm Syndrome, a psychological condition in which a captive falls in love with her kidnapper. And you play the part of the kidnapper. With a limited number of options, you must figure out how to make her fall in love with you."

This includes using poison gas on the victim, sexually assaulting her and using psychological abuse against her in efforts to make her "love" you. Unbelievable.

While RapeLay was offered by a third-party reseller on Amazon, Stockholm appears to shipping direct from the online retailer's inventory.


Comments

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

OHNOES, A VIDEO GAME ABOUT SEX. I MUST GO AGAINST IT INSTEAD OF DOING THINGS THAT ACTUALLY MATTER!

 

Jeez, it's a game for crying pancakes sakes.

 

 

I also want to play this game.

 

=========================================================================== Jack Thompson is vanquished!!!

=========================================================================== Jack Thompson is vanquished!!!

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

UMMMM crying pancakes. Delicious when covered in weeping maple syrup and agonized butter.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

 Hi All - this is Max Shearson, outreach coordinator at RMD Global. I'll keep this short: the response and outrage to "Stockholm: An Exploration of True Love" is understandable. After all, it does challenge core ideas of modern American society. But I think that some of the reactions have been quick and emotional, rather than careful and considered.

At our site, authors, filmmakers, and even the CEO of RMD Global have shared their views on the recent Banning of "Stockholm." The site is http://rmdglobal.net/stockholm/ I know that anyone as dedicated to a cause as many of you are will want to consider all rational perspectives.

All we're asking is that you consider a few other points of view, and, if you agree, to sign the online petition, or even leave any helpful comments.

-Max

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

Max

-- Do you believe that "emotional" reactions are invalid? Or less valid? Is there something wrong with responding emotionally to something? Is emotional neccesarily irrational, and if not, how did you make the distinction that those who do not believe your game should be promoted and sold by another company are acting irrationally?

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

I, Junjinji have actually posted a formal counter to this garbage at their site. I feel I worded it fairly professionally, enough anyway. If you'd like to read it, it's at the bottom of their front page now.

 

www.feministing.com/archives/015717.html#comment-262480

 

 

 

"Laugh and the World laughs with you. Weep and you Weep alone."

"Laugh and the world Laughs with you. Weep and you Weep alone."

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

Unbelievable it is.

That the feminist can't see this is a DVD, a fantasy.

And no feminist seem to protest over 9½ weeks (bad movie, btw) or that film were Ewan McGregor ties a young women up, holding her captive against her will, in order for her to fall in love with him.

And I know that many women long for to be overtaken by man, to be taken (in fantasy at least) by a man overpowering them. And if people are into this, there are bondage movies and submissive movies on this thing called the internet...

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

Deamian: Animals don't rape, humans do.

I have seen enough Youtube (Why the hell I am still watching FUCKING YOUTUBE!?) clips that beg otherwise....

Deamian: A question that is completly out of topic but.. if this is an interactive DVD we are talking about, why is it on "gamepolitics?"

GP: Although interactive DVDs aren't traditionally thought of as video games, they would appear to fall into something of a gray area between movies and games.

Now we could go into a discussion on that concept. But....... *Yawn*

______________________________ Because I have NO Life... :P I introduce the following. PSN User ID: FirebirdXR (Yes, I use that moniker often) Xbox Live ID: FirebirdLR (Don't bother, It's a Silver Membership) *Limited Time Only* I put both because I

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

The percieved outrage around this is the attempt to normalize sexual abuse and violence toward women, which as a whole is utterly deviant if you compare every living being on earth together.

Animals don't rape, humans do.

But animal and people commit violence, for different reasons, both for survival at times.

As such, it will always be generally more accepted to play a game which involve someone with a chainsaw slicing thru hordes of baddies, than a guy raping and poisoning a woman into love...

Both normal and horrible human behavior, but one is actually deviant. Letting you guess which...

At the limit, this DVD could also depict the fact that the protagonist is sending a cry for help ; to sexual violate a woman and seek gratification from it is a sign of crisis, conflicts and intense personnal pain within one's life.

Another limit could be that the publishers want people to know what Stockholm syndrome is, and choosing an interactive media, making it much more controversed up, is a sure way to whip people's attention into it.

All in all, feminists are as right as they are wrong to bash on this dvd/game.

 

 

A question that is completly out of topic but.. if this is an interactive DVD we are talking about, why is it on "gamepolitics?" This ain't "DVDpolitics." One now needs to figure out what seperates an interactive DVD from a video-game... Apparently, not a lot of things does.

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

Wait, are you saying that since people do rape, it's okay to make a game about it? Because people do rape, it's okay to treat it like a normal thing?

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

 It's okay to dream about it, make a game about, make a movie about it, write stories about it. Basically anything about those fantasies except the real thing should be fine.

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

The point here is not "is it okay?"  The point here is "do you want it to be okay?"  The what-if stance might be safe, but you sacrifice alot in the way of civil liberties to keep your morality healthy.  That being said, a healthy distinction between reality and fantasy is JUST as important as the distinction between what HAS happened and what MIGHT happen.

"HEY! LISTEN!"

"HEY! LISTEN!"

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

There are quite a few species that procreate via rape. Sometimes, almost exclusively.

Many types of whales, for example.

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

This makes me ponder the concept of love as a illusion, it’s such a needed thing in the mind it can warp ones view of the world.  Makes me wonder how far off arranged marriage is because people can be so silly how wrong can it be to shape things from a more wise point of view.

 

Not saying that its not abused but look at the dating game and wide spread cheating I am merely pointing out the grass is not greener on the other side.


I am a criminal because I purchase media,I am a criminal because I use media, I am a criminal because I chose to own media..We shall remain criminals until Corporate stay's outside our bedrooms..


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

Not saying that its not abused but look at the dating game and wide spread cheating I am merely pointing out the grass is not greener on the other side.

I am thinking of that OnlineBootyCall.com commercial, and now I am weeping for society.

______________________________ Because I have NO Life... :P I introduce the following. PSN User ID: FirebirdXR (Yes, I use that moniker often) Xbox Live ID: FirebirdLR (Don't bother, It's a Silver Membership) *Limited Time Only* I put both because I

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

When I click on the link to the Stockholm amazon page I get a 404 not found. Guess they pulled it.

Reality/////////////////////////////////////Fantasy. Seems like a pretty thick line to me...

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

Yupp they nuked it, it seems anything that involves sex and controversy they nuke it…… oy vay….

 


I am a criminal because I purchase media,I am a criminal because I use media, I am a criminal because I chose to own media..We shall remain criminals until Corporate stay's outside our bedrooms..


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

To be honest I'm surprised Amazon even sells porn in the first place.

----------------------------------------------------

Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

I hate product protests. As long as the stuff they sell isn't a public health risk I don't see the point, it just makes a mess of the legal system and leaves more people pissed off. Focus on creating jobs, people.

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

I can understand why they would be offended by this game, but what do they hope to accomplish by attacking this interactive DVD?

Reality/////////////////////////////////////Fantasy. Seems like a pretty thick line to me...

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

Because the "eh, whatever," approach to social change rarely works.

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

Yes, but how is attacking some obscure title going to accomlish social change to begin with? Did social change occur via the attacks on the Rapelay game? It's not like either is or was being held as some sort of social standard for how to treat people of the opposite sex.

Reality/////////////////////////////////////Fantasy. Seems like a pretty thick line to me...

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

The point is that if they are opposed to something, something that really goes against their mission statement, then they at least have to try.  If you see something and find it truly heinous, and it's sort of your job to speak out against things you find heinous, then what does it say about you if you just let it pass?  "Eh, whatever, why bother raising awareness if we can't win that battle easily?"

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

Well it looks like my point is moot now. The game appears to have been pulled.

Reality/////////////////////////////////////Fantasy. Seems like a pretty thick line to me...

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

But with something as trivial and obscure as this (how many people do you suppose had ever even heard of Rapelay or Stockholm before a couple weeks ago?), it mostly just "raises awareness" that you are touchy and overreact to things, and undermines your position for more important issues.  The boy who cried wolf, yadda yadda...

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

Here's a question:

If individuals and organizations are so against the TOTALLY fictional video games that depict violent sex, including rape, why aren't they equally loudly demanding ends to:

"Erotic" books, especially ones written by women, that depict rape victims falling in love with their assailants

Fantasy RolePlayers who enjoy playing rape scenes (no matter what the genders roles are for assailant and victim).

People who actually DO have violent sex consentually.

And so on.

Why aren't they demanding that authors of the books bee arrested if it's so truly evil and disgusting and empowering to real rapists as they claim?

Why aren't they demanding that authority figures go on the porn sites and track down those who post images of their fantasy and role play and arrest them for encouraging rapists to commit real acts of rape.

Why aren't they demanding the police storm the homes of people they believe are even consentually having violent sex?

If video games that depict fictional violent sexual acts are as truly horrid as they claim, why aren't they following up against ALL violent sexual fiction and ALL consentual violent sexual acts?

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

Because then they would have to attept the unthinkable.

 

They would... HAVE TO SHUT DOWN TEH INTERNETZ!!!

 

Which is just as rediculous(and impossible) as it sounds.

--------------------

Making the world a better place... one Headshot at a time...

-------------------- Making sure I retain my INSANITY

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

You know, Amazon opened themselves up to this kind of thing once they backed down and removed Rapelay. Now every crackpot group is going to be looking for some controverial product listed on Amazon that they can campaing to have removed. These groups love to have victories, since they generally do nothing but pontificate, so now Amazon and its product suppliers have a big bullseye on their backs.

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

Seriously - would anyone complain like this if the captive was male, and the criminal a girl?

 

'Sides. It's a tasteless 'game'-thing. People have a right to be tasteless. And enjoy that, too. =]

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

Heck, would they be complaining if the game was about players being "Women's group" members trolling high schoolk grounds as teachers looking for their next "boy toy"?

After all "women don't rape men", "it's cool for boys to be with older women", "it doesn't happen as often so it's not that big of a deal", "males deserve to be raped because females have always been the victims of males", "it's the fault of media because they sell sex" (to paraphrase LaFave), and so on.

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

Absolutely no one, no feminist group, says those things. There is such thing as a "rape" culture, but no one, absolutely no one, believes that men a) aren't affected, and b) deserve it.

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

You do realize that you just applied a broad generalization to over 6 billion people, right?

"HEY! LISTEN!"

"HEY! LISTEN!"

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

Find me a mainstream, respected feminist group that says that male rape is okay. That's what I said.

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

This falls under my "I reject your reality and substitute my own" category.  Sorry.  ^^

"HEY! LISTEN!"

"HEY! LISTEN!"

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

Complain? I'd buy it in a heartbeat. It would be the greatest game ever made. (dreamy gaze)

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

Sounds like the feminists are either PMSing or upset that they have never gotten laid. Maybe even a bit of both.

When Jack Thompson runs his mouth, does anyone really care what he has to say anymore?

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

And sounds like someone didn't take his medication today...

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

This item is now unavailable on Amazon as of about 1:30 pm mountain time. Luckily I was able to order the game before then at the low price of 9.99 (and only 9.99 with my amazon prime account). The irony is I wouldn't have even known about this product if it wasn't for the complainers, at least not this soon after its release.

Thank you to Feministing on giving me the heads up on this one.

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

I see raping escaped goats is still in style….

 


I am a criminal because I purchase media,I am a criminal because I use media, I am a criminal because I chose to own media..We shall remain criminals until Corporate stay's outside our bedrooms..


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

Here's the type of letter we should be mailing to Amazon which I psoted on their feminist site.

Dear Amazon,
A bunch of feminists have recently sent you a letter demanding you pull Sotckholm from your store.
While from the looks of it the game would disgust me I ask that you please not pull the game as doing so would just give it free publicity (moreso than the feminists have all ready given it) and thus more sales, and possibly a sequel. Something similar happened with rapeplay as it garnered a large amount of attention after you decided to pull it. I do not wish for Stockholm to be the news topic for the next several weeks and would rather have it fall into relative obscurity quickly. So if you would kindly not pull it I would very much appreciate it.
Signed
A loyal customer.

Now where might I go to send the letter?

----------------------------------------------------

Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

To a copyeditor to begin with!  Just kidding...just note that Stockholm is spelled wrong in the first sentence.  I'd tone down some of your language too.  "Bunch of feminists" is vague and sounds hostile.  I'd name the organization directly (i.e. "the national organization of...") or keep the language a bit more professional (i.e. "some individuals who self-identify as feminists...").

Just my $.02.

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

Usually, gameplay revolving around romantic or sexual activies comes off as very clumsy. But this is more of an interactive movie than a pixel-and-polygon video game. The presentation is probably more graphic and obviously an attempt to cash in on some shock value.

I don't know about anyone else, but watching a sex movie is more depraving than interacting in it.

Just read this column from a game developer:

http://www.igda.org/columns/clash/clash_Nov07.php

A passive viewer of torture, murder or violence – who chooses to watch it as a form of entertainment – is not just tacitly condoning it. The observation of such activities is gratifying, to the point that he seeks it out. That kind of voyeurism is much more depraved [than controlling the action], sitting there eating popcorn while characters beg and scream.

I guess by definition, Stockholm falls more into the area of exploiting the subject of violence and rape, than the exploitation of gameplay, you know, the thing that keeps people interested in progressing through the game. 

Manhunt and BMX XXX both exploited their subject matter far more than the gameplay, that is why they ended up being mediocre games. And why the number of media watchdogs outnumbered the number of gamers that actually cared about them.

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

I would place this thing at the same point as RapeLay on the "disgusting" spectrum. Maybe Dennis took to heart some of the criticism he got about his personal opinions bleeding into the RapeLay topics.

Alternatively, it could be that the goal of this interactive DVD is to make the woman fall in love with you as opposed to just havnig her be a sexual object that you forced over and over. It's splitting hairs but I guess I see that distinction.

What I do take issue with is the misrepresentation of "Stockholm's Syndrome."

Stockholm's Syndrome is NOT a condition in which a captive "falls in love with her captor." It is a condition in which a captive IDENTIFIES with his or her captor and becomes a willing participant in the captor's actions.

What is happening in this interactive DVD (which is more a 'choose your own adventure' movie than a game) is just ONE way in which Stockholm's Syndrome can manifest but it is NOT the definition of "Stockholm's Syndrome."

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

Just saying that media in general needs to be responsible for it's actions is misleading.

Certainly, when it comes to media that is "non-fiction", such as real news media, educational media, and media whose intent is educational peripherally (such as religion and behavioral education (versus facts and figures)) needs to act responsibly under a similar concept of "The Truth, The Whole Truth, And Nothing But The Truth".

But when it comes to "fiction", there should be NO boundaries or limitations.  Simply because it IS fiction.

Fiction is fiction.

Reality is reality.

Reality comes set in boundaries and consequencies for actions of an individual.

Fiction has no limitations and should have no consequences.

Some say that they would like to make their fantasies (a form of fiction) come true.  But in so doing, that fantasy becomes reality and bound by the limitations of reality and the consequences of reality.

But fiction should not be forced to be limited.  Everyone has their own tastes when it comes to the myriad of genres within the fictional setting.  Many have different views of what is "good", "bad", "ugly" or beyond in either direction as to what any one genre or any one product's value is.  Not everyone shares those views.

The claims that liking any one genre or product of the fictional style must mean that you agree and intend to make that fiction a reality is not based on any factual, realistic claim. 

An individual who has an interest in certain beliefs or acts in reality may be drawn to the fictional version of those beliefs or acts.  But the same is not necessarily true of the reverse.

Indeed, an individual who has a propensity for a particular belief or act in the real world may very well find ANY excuse to follow through that reality, whether exposed to the fictional version or not.

There has never been evidence that exposure to the fictional version of of anything automatically makes the person wxposed to that fiction actually do it in reality, especially if they don't have a propesity for doing them in reality already.

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

Eeep, sorry, this was supposed to be on a different comment.

---- hc svnt dracones

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

I agree with many of the posts above.  This DVD...whatever it is, is obviously in poor taste.  But the reaction is quite silly, and seems likely to drive up sales at least somewhat if only for morbid curiosity.

Honestly I think that the intent of advocacy groups such as this has little to do with decreasing sales of the "offending" media product, and more to do with increasing their own visibility and influence.  If they become more visible and powerful AND media sales increase...so be it.

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

Actually I'll amend my comment above by saying that is "sounds like" it's in poor taste.  I'm aware that advocacy group descriptions of media don't always match the actual content.

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

I find it funny that, in America, feminists usually vote for politicians who believe that rapists don't deserve to go to prison.

 

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

I'd be curious where you can find a mainstream politician...MAINSTREAM, mind you...who has ever said anything remotely along the lines of "rapists don't deserve to go to prison".

Re: Feminists Outraged by Interactive DVD Available on ...

I think he might be speaking about politicians who prefer 'rehabilitation' over hard time. And they're probably a bit fuzzy on the death penalty as well.

 

Personally I think some crimes are better suited for rehab (usually drug-use related) but a rapist should be shackled to a pipe for ten minutes, in a room with four angry dads with baseball bats. That seems reasonable.

---- hc svnt dracones
 
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Andrew EisenMP - I love that games but damn my squadmates are bozos.09/21/2014 - 10:05pm
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MechaTama31quik: But even if it did break, at worst it is only as bad as the powder. Even that is assuming that it is dangerous through skin contact, which is not a given if its delivery vehicle is a syringe.09/21/2014 - 4:30pm
MaskedPixelantehttp://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/09/20/isis-uses-gta-5-in-new-teen-recruitment-video/09/21/2014 - 4:25pm
quiknkoldSyringes can break. And in a transcontinental delivery, the glass could've broken when crushed. I work in a mail center. Shit like this is super serious09/21/2014 - 3:25pm
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quiknkoldEzach: I'm not talking about the needle. I'm talking about what's inside. Geeze. Depending on what it is, the sender could be guilty of bioterrorism.09/21/2014 - 12:51pm
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