Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

May 29, 2009 -

If you want to trade in your used games in Broward County, Florida, prepare to give up your thumbprint.

The Broward-Palm Beach New Times reports that the local sheriff's office began requiring game traders to submit to thumbprinting in October, 2008:

Broward County Sheriff's Office spokeswoman Kayla Concepcion said the new requirement comes straight from the Florida Legislature, which enacted a law... that treated video games like second-hand goods sold at pawn shops. Now any store buying used video games has to collect the thumb prints, along with a bunch of other personal info about the seller.

Comments

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

Ugh, from the minds who brought you the so ill named "Patriot Act" we bring you this stupid shit.  Just how long until GPS devices are going to be implated in people?  With people like JDJK out there, soon.  Very fucking soon.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

You're a much worthier candidate for brain implant than GPS device implant.  

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

So why buy games in the first place then?

Ebay the games, sell them on craigslist, sell them to friends, drive across the state border. Thank God for democracy - where one group of idiots can try to spoil it for the rest of us, and get beat down for it.

Federal laws are scarier...

I will not buy securom games. http://www.wolvenmoon.com/sharedfiles/message1.jpg and http://www.wolvenmoon.com/sharedfiles/message2.jpg

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

Wow look at this. Couple months late, but still on point. Actually started Oct 15 of '08. I work @ a Gamestop in Broward and although it sucks that we have to fill out the state pawn form for every trade, it does help to detour some of the obvious theft trades. Besides, most people can't really go anywhere else but Gamestop or Play N trade. It does suck if someone missuses the info, but it's the same as if someone sees your ID for long enough. Plus we have to create a whole new back stock just to hold the games and forms to comply with the new stupid law.

Plus it is the same form as all the pawn shops in the state, a good amount of people are already familiar with it.

Also have to be 18 with state ID or driver's license.

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

I hate to play devil's advocate here, but there is a problem with theft of games/cd's/dvd's, a lot of time they are stolen and sold for drug money or to support criminal organizations. In califonria at the computer shop I work at we have to take in finger prints whenever we buy laptops or other electornics. I don't believe these finger prints enter any database though.

 

Honestly, as long as the finger prints do not enter a finger print database but are just held for "X" years in case theft is reported, then I support the practice. We get people coming in with parts I suspect are stolen sometimes, knowing they are going to have to give a fingerprint would act as a deterrent.

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

Feh. I don't see how acting as if a consumer is a potential criminal is going to boost anyone's faith in the economy.

 

I don't have a problem showing ID for most things; I'm rather used to it, as I smoke. However, I absolutely refuse to give my SSN for things like cough medication and were I to live in this area, I would be leaving the county to do all of my game transactions, used or new. You most certaintly do not need a physical copy or trace of something highly private of mine that could float around and anyone with half a brain and some determination could use in a criminal manner.

---- hc svnt dracones

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

My god how hard is it to put a finger print on a pice of papper, you are making a sell that has a 1-3 in ten chance of being from stolen goods theres nothign wrong with it, move along nothing to see here....

 


I am a criminal because I purchase media,I am a criminal because I use media, I am a criminal because I chose to own media..We shall remain criminals until Corporate stay's outside our bedrooms..


http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

I wonder how Florida will deal with such websites like eBay or Craigslist. Those places are like sending your gold through the mail with nary a trace of guaranteed valid information.


Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

 The Florida Legislature is simply following the crime trail.  Pawn shops have always been tied to crime and thus have a rather hefty amount of regulation.  Thumbprinting is common.  Pawn shop owners are liable for buying stolen goods.  The same can be said of jewelry stores buying gold/gems.

Video games have turned into one of the newer targets of crime.  They are highly valuable, small, and common.  Gamestops are located everywhere and pay cash.  If you steal a shipment of games, it doesn't take long to unload a lot of copies by hitting all the local Gamestops.

Yes, used book stores are essentially the same but they deal with a product that is generally inexpensive or in the case of college textbooks, requires a student ID.  That and books are heavy and there are not tons of used books stores around.

So, the point it, the lawmakers are following the crime.  If you spend any time in a Gamestop and notice the number of people that try to pawn games still in their shrink wrap, then you would have an idea of the problem.

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

Hit the nail on the head.

Video game theft (both second hand and retail) is big business. Unfortunately, a lot of Gamestop employees (and the company itself) are either oblivious or knowingly accept the fact that some of their trade-ins are the result of theft. Often times, it's blatantly obvious.

Yes, a fingerprinting system would only serve to divert criminals to places like craigslist or eBay, but allowing criminals to profit from their crimes using a system like Gamestop without some sort of identification is not the anwser.

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

Yeah, it is really obvious. I know a few people who work(ed) at Gamestop. They all had those customers who would come in at regular intervals to trade in tons of games, but would mysteriously never buy anything. I don't really see anything wrong with this policy, and I don't get why everyone is bitching so much. Are you planning on doing something illegal? Is that why you don't what you're prints on file? This doesn't really seem like that big of an invasion of privacy to me. And that picture up above, the one about how people who give up liberty for security deserve neither; that's bullshit. Almost nothing in this world is an all or nothing situation like that.

--------------------------------------------------------

Believe in something! Even if it's wrong, believe in it! -Glenn Beck

-------------------------------------------------------- Believe in something! Even if it's wrong, believe in it! GET OFF MY PHONE! -Glenn Beck

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

This is so incredibly hard for me to not put all caps on this. Your statement reeks of stupidity and a disregard for human rights.

Oh, since you aren't doing anything illegal and have nothing to hide, you wouldn't mind if I went into your house and looked around then? I mean, you're not planning to do anything illegal, are you? Of course not, so then you wouldn't mind if I looked around then?

Do you have any pride or any decency? Do you even WANT any privacy? Or should everything that you (and everyone else) say/do be completely public for everyone to see?

Enjoy having Big Brother watch over you...

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

Comparing your privacy and Gamestop isn't exactly going to help you prove your point.

Trading in stolen property to Gamestop is an easy way for criminals to profit using a legitimate system. In addition, lax theft policies and the threat of lawsuits prevent retail outlets from pursuing thieves to the fullest extent.

To all those who keep bringing up the security vs. liberty argument;

If you truly believe that statement to the fullest extent, why do need police? Why do we need a government at all? If you really want to look at it from that viewpoint, any organized boundaries serve only to limit your liberties. Being fingerprinted at Gamestop shouldn't be a very high priority.

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

I've been sitting here thinking a similar thought. If Ben Franklin was as completely opposed to sacrificing liberty for security as some have argued, then why was he a staunch proponent of the 13 States trading off some of their individual liberties for the benefits of them forming a central federal government? Could it have anything to do with the fact that without them pooling the military resources of the 13 States in order to present a unified defensive front in opposition to the vastly superior military forces of the British, they would have had their individual asses handed to them within a week of the British army landing?    

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

It's a fairly well-established scientific fact that if you spend all your time bashing your own knee with a hammer, odds are that you'll often cause your own lower leg to reflexively swing forward.*

___________________________

*See Sir Michael Foster's 1877 texbook on physiology in which Foster states: "Striking the tendon below the patella gives rise to a sudden extension of the leg, known as the knee-jerk."

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

Seems like a whole lot of tax dollars to catch such small-time low lifes.

 

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

The bulk of the costs aren't borne by taxpayers because the bulk of the costs aren't being incurred by the government. The cost are being incurred by those who deal in second-hand videogames and upon whom the government is imposing the record keeping requirement. Those dealers will ultimately pass their increased costs onto those who trade in their second-hand videgames in the the form of reduced value paid and/or onto those who purchase second-hand videogames in the form of increased prices. Gamers are the ones who are sucking up the costs of this one.  

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

Broward County Sheriff's Office spokeswoman Kayla Concepcion said the new requirement comes straight from the Florida Legislature, which enacted a law... that treated video games like second-hand goods sold at pawn shops. Now any store buying used video games has to collect the thumb prints, along with a bunch of other personal info about the seller.

mikedo2007

This is just stupidly ridiculous, thumbprint when you trade in video game.  What's next racial profiling on gamers?  Since when does the Police think video game equal to pawn shop items.  Video game are not Fort Knox gold or something like that.

 

 

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

If I'm honest I'm not surprised they are putting this system into effect because here in Florida we have a rather high rate of stolen video games...it sounds stupid yea, but there's a lot of thieves looking for cheap quick cash and video game trade ins are pretty darn easy. Here in Orlando, FL you need to be 18 and have a valid I.D, that's pretty much it, you meet those requirements you can pretty much trade in anything you please. We also have the habit of some idiots stuffing their games or consoles full of stuff...mainly things they are trying to hide, I've talked to some employees and they often come across something they have to report to the police at least once or twice a month. As far as I know, all the Gamestops here in Orlando run the same, heck it's even easier when you got a friend on the inside...though would explain why they go through people so often...

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

This is nothing new to me. When I worked at Gamestop, about 2 years into my tenure there, the county enacted a law that required thumbprinting for all sales/trades to a pawn shop. Gamestop was included in that law. This was in California.

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

And please bear in mind that the "right to privacy" which some are clamouring that the ACLU should be defending is never -- like most all other rights -- absolute. If the government has an interest of some sort in regulating a particular sort of conduct and the regulation somehow furthers or is related to that interest, then tough tits. The government demands to see I.D. before you board an airplane at any airport in the United States, don't they? Invasive of privacy? Certainly. Perfectly legal? Absolutely.  

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

And slavery was legal 200 years ago. Legality does not equal righteousness, nor does it equal constitutionality. Hell, constitutionality doesn't even equal constitutionality anymore...

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

If you feel that strongly about these issues, perhaps you should inquire of Austin Lewis if the anti-government militia of which he's an apparent member is accepting new recruits? Could be fun on a weekend to go out in the woods all decked-out in camouflage, shoot a few 1000 rounds off, build a campfire, and sit around it while drinking brews and bad-mouthing your country. Not a single Puerto Rican Supreme Court nominee in sight. Think about it. 

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

I think some people are concerned about misuse of the system.

From a reasonable standpoint, drug testing or having to take a lie detector test (one that is extremely accurate) seems reasonable if you really have nothing to hide.  But abuse of those requirements by having the target take these tests very often, leaving them feeling harassed and believing that others view them as not trustworthy, even though they've passed the tests every time, seems overstepping authority.  Plus, if someone publically states that you were required to take these tests many, many times but fails to publicize that (1) it was simple policy rather than you were repeatedly suspected and (2) fails to publicize that you passed the tests every single time, the public is left wondering "why" and since you're the target, trying to point out the facts left out by others tends to be ignored.  That's the reason I don't support the unlimited use of such tests.  Not because of something to hide but because of their misuse.

The same is true in this situation.  Look at the situations where the government wanted libraries to record lists of books, especially certain books, that people have checked out.  Seems reasonable for record keeping from the library standpoint and your own personal records to have the library maintain such a list of the books you check out.  But those lists CAN be misused by dishonorable and unethcial members of the government, at the least.

Now, there's not much sense in fingerprinting someone if the records of who the person is, who the fingerprint belongs to, and what games they are selling, and hence most likely have played, are recorded and saved.

Law enforcement may access these lists for the reasonable reasons of preventing sales of stolen items, but can you REALLY block access to this information for OTHER purposes?  How do you know those fingerprints don't end up in a linked database to be compared to other criminal databases?

it wouldn't be unreasonable to see a fingerprint come back on a search "OMG!  The guy knocked over a liquor store and LOOK!  They played GTA!"

You can't tell me that that situation WON'T occur.  Rest assured, if it isn't happening now, "certain people" will be demanding it in the near future, if they haven't already suggested/demanded it.

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

But certainly the risk of potential misuse by the government of the collected record is far outweighed by the benefit of use by government and the public of the collected record. If risk of misuse was a compelling reason to not collect records, then the government wouldn't be able to issue driver licenses and identification cards, passports, take census information or any of the other host of record collecting functions which the government perform. 

There's always a risk in crossing an intersection that a big ol' honking bus will mow your ass over in mid-street. But that ain't no good reason to spend the rest of your life on the sidewalk with a thumb up you ass, either.  

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

"far outweighed" is a frequent term used by those who have yet to become the targets of minor or even major misuse of their information.

It's similar to those who say that those who are falsely convicted of murder and executed are acceptable losses to "protect society".  After all, they, too, aren't the ones being executed for something they didn't do.

Walking on the sidewalk with one's thumb up their butt is certainly safer for many folks when the potential that some boob driving that bus might very well decide that "pedestrian's have the right of way" is meaningless when (1) What the driver has is the big honkin' power to squish the tiny pedestrian and so the pedestrian should get out of the way of the bus and (2) has the MORAL Right to decide who should live and who should die under the wheels of their bus and if it saves society from someone who might be a future danger, so be it.  Don't worry, there will be plenty of people who back the driver and their justification.

When you're not the one getting mowed over by the bus, why would you care about those who DO?  After all, it must have been for a good reason.  And if the government and authority figures agree, then it really must be ok, huh?

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

Yes, staying up on the sidewalk is most likely safer than crossing the street. However, if you intended on getting somewhere other than stuck on a sidewalk, that strategy ain't really furthering your purpose. 

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

When I worked at EB Games in Arizona, we were required to get a driver's license or other ID, copy all information on it and the serial number for the item and send that form to the police. We then had to hold the console for I think 2 weeks before we could sell it.

Didn't have to do it for games though.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

Now THAT is an invasion of privacy. I don't want some random cops knowing what system I am trading in and what my age/weight/height is, why the hell is that information necessary?

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

"Broward County Sheriff's Office spokeswoman Kayla Concepcion said the new requirement comes straight from the Florida Legislature, which enacted a law... that treated video games like second-hand goods sold at pawn shops."

I haven;t heard of my county doing this sort of thing at the local games shops (in pasco county), plus think there would have been some kind of news about this if the was enacted back in octorber 2008.

http://www.magicinkgaming.com/

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

I live in Panama City, Fl. which is in north Florida in Bay County.  At my store, we can take game trades as normal UNLESS it is a console or they are trading stuff in for cash.  At that point we have to fill out the same paperwork as a pawn shop and get your right thumb print.  We have more people have an issue with us having to fill in their weight than they do giving us the thumb print to be honest.  From what I have been told and have looked into, it's just that any store that accepts trades for cash, or certain high dollar items (consoles), require these forms and for the items to be held for 15 days in case they are reported stolen to the authorities.

Zen aka Jeremy Powers
www.ZensPath.com/WordPress
Xbox Live Gamertag: "Zen of the Dark"
PSN Gamertag: "Zenspath"
Wii System Code: "4919 8280 4221 9114"

Zen aka Jeremy Powers
Editor and Host of the Zenspath Podcast (now on iTunes)
www.ZensPath.com
XBL: "PsychoticZen" PSN: "Zenspath"
Nintendo Network: "Psychoticzen", 3DS: "0860-3238-7260

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

In Sacramento County we have to deal with this crap too and hold all trade ins for 30 days.

Aparently now some woman who processes the forms is upset over things not being filled out right or too sloppy so she is sending out detectives to stores to deal with these issues(at the tax payers expense). My guess is they caught all the criminals, found all the stolen cars, and found all the missing people around here.

 

And I really don't care if they read this.

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

If the county thinks that selling/trading in used video games is equal to selling to a pawn shop, what about:

Used book/college textbook stores?

Consignment store?

Retailers that sell (not buy) used items?  (video rental stores that sell their old copies of rentals, for example.)

Goodwill, Salavation Army, and other stores who don't buy used items but do accept those used items?

I COULD go to the extreme and ask about the private selling (versus organizaed retailer) of used items such as at yard sales and flea markets.

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

Thieves don't give stuff to goodwill and salvation army.  The vast majority of thieves who commit such petty theft are poor, meaning they get nothing from giving to the salvation army or goodwill, and that little tax write-off they get does them no good.

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

What, you not a fan of self-proclaimed Robin Hoods?  :)

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

It's only for trading or "selling" items to the store for cash or dependent on the item.  As far as I've seen when I looked into this issue donations are not covered as a sale.  Now about the books issue, I honestly don't know.  I haven't looked into how the second hand sales work at the college in awhile, but I do remember that when I sold mine, they already had all of my information from registration anyways.

Zen aka Jeremy Powers
www.ZensPath.com/WordPress
Xbox Live Gamertag: "Zen of the Dark"
PSN Gamertag: "Zenspath"
Wii System Code: "4919 8280 4221 9114"

Zen aka Jeremy Powers
Editor and Host of the Zenspath Podcast (now on iTunes)
www.ZensPath.com
XBL: "PsychoticZen" PSN: "Zenspath"
Nintendo Network: "Psychoticzen", 3DS: "0860-3238-7260

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

Actually, this doesn't cover Florida in its entirety, it's a regional thing county by county.  It depends entirely upon who has jurisdiction of an area, the Sheriffs or local PD.  The best example I can give is Orlando/Orange County.

Orlando PD doesn't treat used game stores as pawn shops, thus they don't have to stick to some of the requirements made for pawn shops.  However, the Sheriff's Dept does apply pawn shop laws to used game stores.  So depending on which area of town you're in you may or may not run into this.

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

Sooooo...

If I take my thirteen year old son to Orlando this Christmas to go to Disney and we stay at a hotel near the Florida Mall, and he finally wants to trade in either his GTA VC or LC Stories PSP game, will he or I be required to be thumb printed or not?

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

orlando isn't in broward county, so no.

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Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

Where this is required, you HAVE to be 18 or older with valid proof before you can trade it in for cash.  So you would have to be the one to give the thumb print.  If he was just trading in for credit or another game, then you would just have to sign the slip as normal and go from there.

Zen aka Jeremy Powers
www.ZensPath.com/WordPress
Xbox Live Gamertag: "Zen of the Dark"
PSN Gamertag: "Zenspath"
Wii System Code: "4919 8280 4221 9114"

Zen aka Jeremy Powers
Editor and Host of the Zenspath Podcast (now on iTunes)
www.ZensPath.com
XBL: "PsychoticZen" PSN: "Zenspath"
Nintendo Network: "Psychoticzen", 3DS: "0860-3238-7260

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. "

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

In pictoral form

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/01/24/national/george.184.2.650.jpg

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

Because I'm confident that Ben Franklin, already having claim to an unfair share of really cool quotables, would be loathe to take credit for saying something where credit was not fairly due, I feel compelled to point out that the statement depicted on the banner above and attributed to Mr. Franklin is not entirely certain to be of his origination. The statement as it appears above was used as a motto on the title page of An Historical Review of the Constitution and Government of Pennsylvania (1759) which was attributed to Franklin in the edition of 1812, but in a letter of September 27, 1760 to David Hume, Franklin states that he only published An Historical Review of the Constitution, etc. and denies that he actually wrote it -- other than a few remarks that were credited to the Pennsylvania Assembly, in which he served. The statement itself was first used in a letter from the Pennsylvania Assembly dated November 11, 1755, to the Governor of Pennsylvania. Researchers now believe that a fellow diplomat by the name of Richard Jackson is the primary author of An Historical Review of the Constitution, etc. Therefore, based on the historical research and information thus far available, the issue of authorship of the statement is certainly not definitely resolved. At best, the evidence clearly indicates only that it was Franklin who, in the Poor Richard's Almanack of 1738, coined a very similar proverb: "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor liberty to purchase power."
 

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

My apologies, I've just always seen it as quoted by him and even Wikipedia basically says it was him, I just assumed. Plus, there isn't really a way to prove who the actual author is, and everyone already thinks that it was Ben that said it...it'd be hard to take it out of society at this point.

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

No need to apologize, we're all guilty of the occasional mistake. There was a time I assumed that my fellow man had at least a modicum of intelligence, until I grew more in years and wisdom and came to realize that the world has more than a fair share of babbling idiots. Accordingly and not surprisingly, I have also come to realize that the world is full of mistaken notions which have nevertheless managed to gain popular acceptance with society. But the fact of their popular acceptance does nothing to make them any less mistaken. Nor does unquestioningly repeating them.

Since you are apparently fond of a good quotation, let me share one with you which you may find useful: "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines." Essays, First Series, Self-Reliance Ralph Waldo Emerson

P.S.: Among serious scholars and academics, wikipedia isn't exactly thought of as a credible and authoritative source.

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

Also, I don't think Ben Franklin was dumb enough to say something like that (or at least say it and mean it). I'm sure he would have known that there has to be a balance of some sort.

--------------------------------------------------------

Believe in something! Even if it's wrong, believe in it! -Glenn Beck

-------------------------------------------------------- Believe in something! Even if it's wrong, believe in it! GET OFF MY PHONE! -Glenn Beck

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

A "balance?" Explain please. What balance could there possibly be? Never trade essential liberty for "security." Has giving away half of our rights with the PATRIOT Act and allowing the federal government to walk all over us made us any more safe? No, it hasn't, it has simply taken away rights from law-abiding citizens. There is no essential liberty that should be given away for the illusion of security. I think Ben Franklin would have to be dumb NOT to agree with that statement.

 

Balance my ass...

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

Just so you're aware, there is support in the larger context of the original documents in which the quotation first appears for the notion that the "security" to which you are apparently referring, i.e., "security" in the sense of being secure from external threat of physical harm (e.g., the "security" which a police force theoretically ensures) isn't the sense in which the word is used by its original author, who apparently uses it to refer to the "security" of financial and economic gain against the threat of financial and economic loss (e.g., the "security" of a well-funded 401K).  

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

Not really news, Volusia requires traded in games to be held for a period of times (a weak or 2) before they can be resold.

Re: Trade Used Games in Florida, Get Thumbprinted

Wait. I've never been fingerprinted at a pawnshop. Man, if I ever move to Florida, I've got to get a hold of some of those fake fingerprints from Gone in 60 Sec.

 
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Did Microsoft pay too much ($2.5 billion) for Minecraft developer Mojang?:

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KronoThat's exactly what Ben Kuchera was doing to Greg Tito.09/19/2014 - 11:58pm
Krono@EZK So you see nothing wrong with one journalist pressuring a journalist from a different organization to not only not run a story, but to censor a civil discussion already taking place?09/19/2014 - 11:56pm
E. Zachary KnightI write for a number of blogs and talk to people who write similar blogs all the time for tips and advice. I see nothing wrong with that.09/19/2014 - 11:50pm
E. Zachary KnightI read that comment now and frankly, I think that guy is reading too much into this. The press talk to each other. It happens. There is nothing that can be done to stop it from happening.09/19/2014 - 11:49pm
KronoUnfortunately it seems unlikely to be resolved anytime soon.09/19/2014 - 11:45pm
Krono@EZK No that's not the comment. As for wanting nothing do with any of it, that's perfectly understandable.09/19/2014 - 11:44pm
Sleaker@Conster - sand?09/19/2014 - 11:40pm
Krono@Andrew That page of the comments seems to be a bit messed up. It's the one by Titanium Dragon, posted at 2:22 pm.09/19/2014 - 11:37pm
E. Zachary KnightI myself had a Twitter exchange with a gamergate person that frankly soured me on a personal level to the group. I want absolutely nothing to do with it.09/19/2014 - 11:35pm
E. Zachary KnightAnd frankly, that is the kind of tyrade that has a lot of us not wanting anything to do with the gamergate crowd. They take any comment, no matter how innocuous, and blow it out of proportion.09/19/2014 - 11:34pm
E. Zachary KnightI assume you are referring to the comment in response to the web developer, in which the person goes off on a tyrade about "colluding against clients." That guy totally misread the web developers statements.09/19/2014 - 11:33pm
Andrew EisenAre you sure you linked the right comment?09/19/2014 - 11:31pm
KronoBeyond that, I would recommend this Ars Technica comment as a good highlight of the ethical problems people are seeing http://goo.gl/qq8fes09/19/2014 - 11:27pm
Andrew EisenAnd he didn't go through with it because he realized it was a bad idea so there was no breach of ethics in that case.09/19/2014 - 11:26pm
Krono@Andrew To respond to your early remark about where the lack of ethics was, part of it was what Kyle Orland suggested in his article. Crossing the line from reporter to advocate. Journalists aren't supposed to support a side the way they discussed.09/19/2014 - 11:18pm
Andrew EisenOkay, I'm drawing the line here. The Shout box is not for discussing other people's private lives.09/19/2014 - 10:54pm
Neo_DrKefkaI wish there was an, "I don't care." for the whole Minecraft poll thing09/19/2014 - 9:27pm
TechnogeekMy third "dart" wound up hitting a Chinese website for soccer scores, and the fourth hit Pokemon.com. Not one of those had anything to do with white guys getting harassed because they're white guys.09/19/2014 - 8:56pm
TechnogeekFor the record, I actually tried "throwing a dart at the Internet", or at least approximating it as best I could by zooming in at random spots on internet-map.net. First hit was a perfume seller, and then some sort of insurance spammer.09/19/2014 - 8:56pm
Technogeek"While you could throw a dart at the internet and find a site where Gamers in General are being harassed, doxxed, hacked, just because they are being perceived as white males." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M09/19/2014 - 8:47pm
 

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