Left 4 Dead 2 Sparks Consumer Protest

There is, apparently, a consumer protest of sorts bubbling up around Valve’s E3 announcement of Left 4 Dead 2.

A user group which opened within the last few days on Valve’s Steam Community is actively calling for a boycott of the game and has nearly 17,000 members as I write this.

So, what are the protesters griping about? Via Videogames Republic, here’s the list:

  • Significant content for L4D1 was promised, and never delivered
  • Valve put little faith in L4D1 since they almost certainly started working on L4D2 right after release
  • The fact that L4D2 is nearly identical to L4D1 will decimate the community for both games
  • The announced date is not nearly enough time to polish content or make significant gameplay changes
  • The new character designs seem bland and unappealing so far
  • L4D2 is too bright to fit in with L4D1’s visual aesthetic
  • The fiddle-based horde music is extremely disliked, though the differently orchestrated music is otherwise welcome
  • L4D2’s release will result in a drop in quality and frequency for L4D1 content, even compared to before
  • The community has lost faith in Valve’s former reputation for commitment to their games post-release

The group also has requests:

  • That Valve honor its commitment to release ongoing periodic content for Left 4 Dead.
  • That Left 4 Dead 2 not be released as a stand-alone, full-priced sequel but as either a free update to Left 4 Dead or an expansion with full compatibility with basic Left 4 Dead owners.
  • That Left 4 Dead owners be given discounts for Left 4 Dead 2, should it be released as premium content.
     

GP: To be honest, after EA’s phony Dante’s Inferno protest last week, I’m a but gunshy about declaring this one genuine and not another case of viral marketing. I’d like to hear more…

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127 comments

  1. Wimblesaurus says:

    They said it was a sequel.  They never said they were charging for it.

    No, Luke, I AM the Walrus

  2. SS says:

    ALL A BUNCH OF PUSSY WHINERS!

    there i got that out of the way.  let me elaborate.  Valve has given you more free content in updates than any other company.  if they were dlc they’d cost a helluva lot of money.  so what if they release L4D2 so soon, i’m sure they are gonna support it and L4D.  i thought you all whiners were complaining about the lack of "content".  well they’re gonna make a whole new game.  frankly the only reason you are complaining is because you are spoiled by valve.  I for one don’t take them for granted, and am extremely thankufl for their support of their games.  They never dissapoint,  they didn’t for L4D and they won’t with L4D2.

    You all think its gonna be a quick cash-in, let me promise it won’t be, they are probably working their arses off on making this a great sequel, and i have trust in Valve.  They rarely fail, and they will make sure L4D2 is worth 50 bucks.  L4D is definately worth 50 bucks, especially with survival and versus modse.  no doubt L4D2 will be worth 50 bucks.

     

    And if valve is trying to rape us for money, hey i decided a long time ago that they’re free to do that, they have given us so much already.  they can have my babies if they want to. 

  3. chadachada321 says:

    That’s my main problem: $60 for different skins and some cheap expansions.

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  4. Mech says:

    Are they pulling L4D off of steam so no one can play it anymore? I wasn’t aware of that!

    If not… why are you talking about $50 for? I’m confused?

    Do you think Valve owes you or something? Nah, can’t be something that ridiciolous.
     

    You let me know, okay champ?

  5. FlakAttack says:

    If they cut the price in half for L4D owners, I think I could deal with that.

    Option 2 however, is much better in my mind. Make all the original game’s content compatible with the second game.

    AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD FIX THE SDK.

  6. Monte says:

     "Even if they started on L4D2 right after L4D1, That would only leave them only a year or so to program and develop the entire 2nd game.  A good game takes time to develop, program, debug, and test.  If you dont take the time to do all of this, you end up with really buggy, badly scripted, and ultamatly and unfinished product.  I have played games that were on a rush job, and believe me there is nothing worse."

    Unless they used a HUGE amount of the code from the previous game and just made what is mostly a carbon copy of the first game just with new levels/monsters/characters/weapons… i mean if you are just rehashing, there’s not as many problems that could come up.

    Ofcourse, this is part of the complaint in that all L4D2 will be is just a rehash of the first game… it will work just fine, but there is not a good reason for it to be a sequel instead of just downloadable content or an expansion to the first game…

    I mean, the only reason they can say L4D2 started development right after the first game was because much of the content in L4D2 is content that was originally gonna be downloadable for the first game…

  7. Bennett Beeny says:

    I’ll probably buy L4D2, but I don’t expect it will be better than L4D1.  After about a week I’ll probably be back playing the classic L4D1 and still hoping for the expansion pack they promised us.  Unfortunately, if L4D2 is released and if it is a let-down, the likelihood is that there will be no expansion pack for either title.  If that happens, instead of being a cash cow franchise for the developers, the game will lose players’ interest and become just another flash in the pan.

  8. Danath says:

    People bought L4D based on a longstanding reputation established by valve with the half life, counter strike, team fortress 2, etc. Excellent value for the dollar, a key point in any marketing plan, any company releasing L4D would not have gotten the sales valve did, but Valve has a high reputation which created high expectations.

    Now that thats out of the way, a large reason for this anger is because they started working on L4D2 IMMEDIATLY after L4D, which leaves people betrayed, as in "you never planned to release shit for us?! You went straight to #2! The new changes to the game are welcome, but what is disliked is that its not a radical change from the FIRST game, some new weapons, new guns, new maps, people expected this on initially buying the game, and did not recieve it. Also the visual aesthetic of the game relies heavily on the fact that L4D is a cliche of every zombie movie ever, travelling at night, dont seperate the group, cheesy comments, genre savvyness, etc. When you supplement it all with everything in the daytime, it makes zombies easy to spot… and less scary.

    Also, the complaint about the music is ONLY in regards to the fiddle horde music, everything else is fine and appreciated. I have no commentary on the characters, and I plan to play the gambling man in the white coat with a frying pan, and charge headfirst against a tank with it, so there.

    Finally, the big reason for this anger is this kind of 1 year release is not at all like valve, who support their games for long periods of time, people bought the game assuming it would get the same treatment, and are complaining when this level of trust is broken. Yes, Valve is right to want to earn money, but it takes years to build a good reputation, and only one flop to ruin it, and right now this is looking like a big flop on Valve’s record.

    Edit: As a final note, personally I feel offended by L4D2 because it feels like L4D is a glorified beta that I paid 50 dollars for, where they could test some stuff, and then create a newer, better game from my feedback… and charging me another 50 dollars for the finished product. Oh yes the game is polished and shiney and it was amazingly fun, nonetheless, I expected support, updates, a new campaign, etc from Valve, as I bought the game aware it was incomplete, and even though now its "technically" complete with all 4 maps available as Versus, that kind of minimalist attitude just doesnt jive with the kind of image they have presented up to this point.

    I have no problems paying for L4D2, but if they wanted me to pay 50 dollars for their glorified beta so that they could double charge me for the final released product, I say no, and will not be purchasing it without a 50% discount at least. I am sure the game will be amazing, and it looked amazing, but these are my principles, and I want to hold Valve accountable to their own reputation.

  9. Mech says:

    Better go die your hair black and buy a pack of razors while you are at it. The world is SO unfair and cruel towards you.

  10. Mech says:

    Absolute careface.

    Holy shit, Valve didn’t give you something they promised because they realized it would be an unwise decision on there part? Well AWE MUFFIN, I sure feel sorry for you. How dare they do that to you and your sensibilites. You have it so rough don’t you?

  11. MrKlorox says:

    While I don’t agree with every point, I certainly signed up.

    You people trolling those who think this game is too soon seem to think every supporter of the boycott also supports every point made by the originator (who seems to have written his complaints way too hastily in order to gain ground faster). Those are not the opinions of most of those who signed this.

    Too bad this poorly made list represents the most recognized and joined boycott group for this game. Sadly that will make less people take it seriously.

  12. Austin_Lewis says:

    Tell you what, if you don’t feel like you got your money’s worth, turn your old copy in and don’t buy L4D2.  The only people I know of who ‘don’t feel it was worth the money’ are people who suck at the game or don’t own a fuckin microphone.

  13. MrKlorox says:

    I certainly am. Even with the current DLC released, it isn’t even worth TWENTY bucks.

  14. MaskedPixelante says:

    So, that’s another lie. Throw it on the list of things Valve has lied about. Come on Valve, you’re better than this.

    —You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.

  15. Asahi says:

    "Yes, we’re so spoiled. It’s not like Valve promised ongoing content updates… oh wait, they did…"

    Valve was also supposed to fix the PS3 version of the Orange Box.

    They didn’t.

    I find it supremely ironic that the people who shouted the loudest against PS3 owners and defended Valve are the ones who are now throwing temper tantrums.

     

  16. HungryHungryHomer says:

    Agreed. Story mode? Really? Ok, how about this. Everyone on earth has been turned into a zombie, except you and your friends. Fight through them to safety. There’s your story (and the basic outline of 95% of zombie movies to boot.)

  17. Navi says:

    "How the hell do they know that the amount of time between now and the release date is not enough time to polish the game?….Plus, they allege that Valve has been working on this since they’ve been worked on the first L4D, so, obviously, they have had time to work and polish on the game."

       Even if they started on L4D2 right after L4D1, That would only leave them only a year or so to program and develop the entire 2nd game.  A good game takes time to develop, program, debug, and test.  If you dont take the time to do all of this, you end up with really buggy, badly scripted, and ultamatly and unfinished product.  I have played games that were on a rush job, and believe me there is nothing worse.

    "I saw a gameplay video of L4D2 last night, and it’s looking great."

    Gameplay video always looks great.  Its called marketing.

    "There are also the complaints regarding the characters and the setting.  How are these new characters bland and the characters from the first game not bland and unimaginative?  If anything, the footbal coach and the gambler guy look a lot more interesting than either Bill or Francis.  Plus, the characters fit into the new setting, as do the characters from the first game.  That really is a matter of opinion, and they shouldn’t bitch that Valve dropped the ball on that.  And I don’t know about anybody else, but it would get kinda tiresome if all the levels and games took place at night.  The change of setting and time of day looks actually like a refreshment from the typical gloomy rainy night of most horror games."

    Just to show that I’m not completely a troll, I will say that I mostly agree with you here ^^  However I will wait to play the game before I make that judgement call one way or the other

    "Oh, and they have lost faith in Valve after Valve has given them a ton of freebies and updates in their games throughout the years?"

    Its not what they got that is the issue, its what they didn’t get.  A lot of people I know bought this game not just for the gameplay but for the downloadable content that would come with it.  When developers release a sequal, they usualy stop developing new content for the older versions.  This is so they can force you to buy the full version of the newest game.  So Valve releasing one survival pack and then saying "Expect the sequal", it’s easy to see why people would be upset. 

    I don’t know if this game is going to be good or bad, but I can definatly see the arguments.  Its not all "whiny, boo hoo I dont wanaaaaa"s but rather like your aleging.  Rather its more of a "make good on your promises." 

    As a side note I did find this interesting interview with Valve Marketing Director

    http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=76077

  18. Navi says:

    While I haven’t played L4D yet, I know a lot of people who bought the game for the downloadable content, only to be denied that privliage with L4D2.  If they advertised this, then they need to deliver.  Delivering L4D2 in an expantion pack, or giving L4D1 owners a discount are both sutable ideas, and not impossible, especaly for Valve.

    This all reminds me of the whole controversy surounding the Orange Box release with HalfLife 2ep1.  Eventualy Valve worked out a compromise.  There is no doubt Valve will find a way to do the same for L4D gammers

  19. Monte says:

     It wasn’t an "assumption"… an assumption means that their expectations were based off of nothing but their own personal thoughts and beliefs

    Officials from valve out right said that L4D was gonna receive the same treatment as Team Fortress 2… THAT is what they based their expectations off of…

  20. Shahab says:

    This is not at all viral marketing. Man, once bitten twice shy? Anyway, all you have to do is go to any forum that has any connection to gaming and you’ll see people crying about L4D2.

  21. drkPheonix says:

    "A lot of the value of a game like Left 4 Dead or a game like Team Fortress 2 is the community around it, since those are the people that you get to play with, and that’s where you’re deriving a lot of your enjoyment. So we’re taking the same approach that we’ve taken with Team Fortress 2, and doing that for Left 4 Dead."

    I don’t remember who said this, but it’s a clip from an interview featured in this video, Lie 4 Money:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQWylFmqnwM&feature=player_embedded

  22. drkPheonix says:

    "A lot of the value of a game like Left 4 Dead or a game like Team Fortress 2 is the community around it, since those are the people that you get to play with, and that’s where you’re deriving a lot of your enjoyment. So we’re taking the same approach that we’ve taken with Team Fortress 2, and doing that for Left 4 Dead."

    I don’t remember who said this, but it’s a clip from an interview featured in this video, Lie 4 Money:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQWylFmqnwM&feature=player_embedded

  23. drkPheonix says:

    Thanks.  I’m just pissed about being lied to and not getting the content that was promised.  When L4D3 comes out in 2010, it will contain all the DLC that was promised for free for L4D2.  Also, WTF is with Valve, they steal a guy’s idea, created for the hope that it would be a free update, and then act like it was theirs and sell it.  He’s not even getting a free copy or a discount.

  24. fozzy360 says:

    I can understand some of the complaints, such as the promised content that Valve promised and never delivered, but most are just "waah, I don’t wanna!" complaints.  How the hell do they know that the amount of time between now and the release date is not enough time to polish the game?  How do they know that?  I saw a gameplay video of L4D2 last night, and it’s looking great.  Plus, they allege that Valve has been working on this since they’ve been worked on the first L4D, so, obviously, they have had time to work and polish on the game.

    There are also the complaints regarding the characters and the setting.  How are these new characters bland and the characters from the first game not bland and unimaginative?  If anything, the footbal coach and the gambler guy look a lot more interesting than either Bill or Francis.  Plus, the characters fit into the new setting, as do the characters from the first game.  That really is a matter of opinion, and they shouldn’t bitch that Valve dropped the ball on that.  And I don’t know about anybody else, but it would get kinda tiresome if all the levels and games took place at night.  The change of setting and time of day looks actually like a refreshment from the typical gloomy rainy night of most horror games.

    Oh, and they have lost faith in Valve after Valve has given them a ton of freebies and updates in their games throughout the years?  I don’t know, but a lot of this is mostly whiny than actual legitimate complaints, but that’s my opinion.

    ————————————————————

    "We received 20 calls last night. As we all know, one call equals a billion people. So 20 billion people called us last night. We must act to preserve decency on television." -The FCC

  25. Ratros says:

    Frankly I don’t really care about this having not gotten the game yet, but I am pissed off over something that I shouldn’t.  That’s the fact that valid complaints such as yours are being ignored just for the fact that there are idiots that go to far with **** like the lighting and fiddle music.  *sigh* 

     

    It’s just sad that this is a valid complaint and some stupid crap is making it seem inane

    I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"

  26. finaleve says:

    Honestly, the game doesn’t need a story mode.  It might be nice but the main focus is on co-op and versus, and thats where its always at.  Even playing single player mode is still fun to play every once in awhile.

  27. finaleve says:

    Even outside that, I feel the game is complete.  I don’t really get to play versus much (wireless internet, not going to try), but I get a friend to bring his 360 over and we do 4 player campaign and enjoy the ride.

     

    The only problem I actually have with this is that  I know Valve could have done A LOT more with the game.  I later thought that maybe they can just make the first maps and characters as DLC to shut everyone up.  Of course they would need to remap things, but in the end it would quell the pitchforks and torches.

  28. KayleL says:

    I am aware that VALVe is a business, however, they get a great deal amount of sales due to costumer trust and loyalty. If it were any other company releasing Left 4 Dead, people won’t complain about a Left 4 Dead 2, however, Left 4 Dead 1 wouldn’t of sold anyway as near as it did.

    Many people bought Left 4 Dead at full price because they knew VALVe would release more content. Look at Team Fortress 2. That game is $20, yet it gets tons of fairly big, regular updates. With L4D more then double the price, you would expect more free content down the road.

    More then anything, people are complaining because they had a lot of trust and expectations with VALVe, and it was just broken.

  29. drkPheonix says:

    What pisses me off is that this is the content that was promised to us as free DLC is being sold to us as a new game. Valve said they would release new campaigns, game modes, zombies, survivors, achievements, and maps. All we got was 1 new map, 1 game mode and a bunch of maps ported to it, and a few achievements to go with it. Where are our campaigns / characters / weapons? A sequel, which Valve admits they started working on immediately after L4D1 shipped.

    "A lot of the value of a game like Left 4 Dead or a game like Team Fortress 2 is the community around it, since those are the people that you get to play with, and that’s where you’re deriving a lot of your enjoyment. So we’re taking the same approach that we’ve taken with Team Fortress 2, and doing that for Left 4 Dead."

    I wouldn’t have bought L4D1 if I knew I was being lied to about future updates. I essentially paid $50 to beta test L4D, and will have to pay again for the full product.

    Also, the Charger isn’t Valve’s idea, it’s this guy’s:

    http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=774540 .

    He created this idea hoping it would be free DLC. Valve takes his idea, and then charges people $50 for it (Valve just announced L4D2 would be full price).

    Also, why doesn’t anyone else realize why the SDK wasn’t released 2 weeks after L4D’s release? If there was too much custom content, people wouldn’t need to pay for the 5 new campaigns in L4D2. 6 months after release, we get a beta of a SDK. They promise it will come out of beta in 1 week. Of course it will. Also, Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy are personally going to deliver us the future L4D1 updates, and give us a complimentary copy of Duke Nukem Forever. There isn’t even an easy way to install and use maps/skins for L4D1. Good luck trying to find a public server with custom maps on it, because the L4D matchmaking system doesn’t support them. There is no way for a person not in any clans/mod groups to play custom maps other than with the shitty A.I.

    Valve also announced that L4D2 players would be able to play L4D1’s maps with the old characters, but with the new weapons/content; making it pointless to buy the first one. This means less people will make servers for L4D1, they will all move to L4D2. They also said L4D2 wouldn’t interface with L4D1, which means the community will be split between people who are willing to pay an extra $50 / people who just bought L4D2 and people who aren’t.

    So what can Valve do to regain my trust?

    1. Give all the new weapons to L4D1
    2. Give the new infected/special infected to L4D1
    3. Give L4D1 an extra campaign (The DLC that was promised)
    4. Allow L4D2 owners to connect to L4D1 servers (because L4D2 will contain the content that was in L4D1)
    5. Let L4D1 owners upgrade to L4D2 for $10 – $20

    This will make it so that people will pay $10-20 for the new campaigns/characters, which I feel is a fair deal, if the above demands are met.

    Personally, I’m not buying L4D2 until it costs less than $25

    Also, I don’t care about the fiddle music, you can just replace the music file with another one.  Same with the characters, lighting etc.  I care about being ripped off, not aspects of the game.

  30. MaskedPixelante says:

    I bought the game because it was fun, and I enjoyed the free day back in May, and it was only 29.99 at EB. I guess my complaint is that we’re continously letting Valve LIE TO OUR FACES!

    —You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.

  31. drkPheonix says:

    "A lot of the value of a game like Left 4 Dead or a game like Team Fortress 2 is the community around it, since those are the people that you get to play with, and that’s where you’re deriving a lot of your enjoyment. So we’re taking the same approach that we’ve taken with Team Fortress 2, and doing that for Left 4 Dead."

    I don’t remember who said this, but it’s a clip from an interview featured in this video, Lie 4 Money:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQWylFmqnwM&feature=player_embedded

  32. OldManOnTheHill says:

    Didn’t purchase or didn’t find the game in box as incomplete?

    Either way, then what’s your complaint?

     

  33. Ratros says:

    Alright kiddies, gather around and let old man Ratros explain something to you.  At the end of the day, companies don’t give a damn bout you or me, it’s all bout the almighty dollar, and the omniponent quarter, and even that ferocious nickle.  Even if they say they care about you, they’re lying, they are just trying to get into your pants, get theirs, and never call you again.  Now no one is saying that you don’t have the right to be offended by this, as well as you should, but when you bring such things up, please keep the little children who were dropped on their heads continously at an early age and like to complain about the stupid **** that will only get your points misconstrewed locked in the closet where they belong.

    I apologize, I try to keep my sarcastic side off Gamepolitics, but when crap like this comes up….

  34. MaskedPixelante says:

    Actually, I didn’t. Guess you’re wrong there.

    —You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.

  35. OldManOnTheHill says:

    Its also not like you bought something you apparently viewed as being incomplete……yeah.

    Also I want the direct, original quote from someone at Valve ‘promising’ extra content on par with TF2.

  36. MaskedPixelante says:

    Yes, we’re so spoiled. It’s not like Valve promised ongoing content updates… oh wait, they did…

    —You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.

  37. Michael Brooks says:

    Oh, and releasing achievements for one class at a time in TF2 and releasing "Episodes" instead of Half-Life 3 also shows Valve’s laziness.

    There I’m done.

  38. Michael Brooks says:

    Hardly any of Valve’s games feel "complete," IMO. They’re quick, easy mods of Half-Life and Half-Life 2. Left 4 Dead was no exception. The fact that they didn’t even bother to include a story mode, just four half-assed "campaigns," is proof of that.

    That said, L4D was very fun, and there’s nothing wrong with adding new content to a game to keep it fresh. When I first heard about all the new L4D content, I was excited. Then I found out it was going to be a completely separate game and I wrote it off as a rip-off.

    Of course, all of this means nothing since my brother broke my copy of L4D and I’m going to buy L4D2 anyway. But, I’m loving this boycott. It looks like Valve fans finally woke up to how Valve makes its money.

  39. MaskedPixelante says:

    It’s not that Valve chose to announce Left 4 Dead 2 that makes me angry. It’s that Valve chose to announce Left 4 Dead 2 INSTEAD OF Half-Life 2 Episode 3.

    —You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.

  40. Ratros says:

      Damn buisness guys trying to make us spend money on dem!

    I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"

  41. chadachada321 says:

    *I don’t plan to*

    I’m simply making my opinions known so that people that are considering buying the new L4D may reconsider. I’m not telling people not to buy the game, I’m just saying that I won’t buy it and here are my list of grievances.

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  42. chadachada321 says:

    *THANK YOU*

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  43. Vord says:

    While I agree with some of these complaints if I get screwed out of daylight maps and fiddle music I’ll be pissed.

  44. Father Time says:

    Irrelevant really, if they promised DLC and didn’t deliver the fans have a good reason to be pissed.

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  45. Arell says:

    To be fair, this is a really quick turnaround for a sequel.  L4D just came out.  You also can’t compare it to singleplayer games that replace themselves every couple years.  As a multiplayer game, it’s designed to develop and maintain a community.  A new game so soon would only divide that community.

    It’d be like Blizzard releasing WoW, and then releasing WoW2 two years later.

  46. OldManOnTheHill says:

    It seems the crux of the argument is that certain people bought this game thinking they were oblidged extra free content.

    That was never the case regardless of Valve’s reputation. Thinking otherwise is simply an exercise in being a bad consumer. Why did you purchase something you deemed incomplete?

    When you paid for the original title, you paid for whatever was on that disc. Unless valve included some documentation stating otherwise with your disc, you are not owed anything more.

    That said, my fiance and I have found what is on the disc more than sufficient to entertain us from last November through this past weekend and eagerly await the flameproof zombies in the sequel.

  47. vaminion says:

    Half-Life 2 did, debateably.  Deathmatch wasn’t included with it out of the box, nor were the stunstick/crowbar, nor were some of the new DM maps/modes, etc.  That said, even if it’s Valve or Stardock it’s still foolish to buy a game based on promised content.

    If Valve actually promised these things for Left 4 Dead and hasn’t delivered, though, it’s crap they didn’t deliver it.  It doesn’t mitigate customer responsibility, but it’s never wise to promise something and then not deliver.

       -P, let the buyer beware.

  48. chadachada321 says:

    Probably the exact thing that EA does, which is what pisses me off. They’ll just rinse/recycle a couple things from L4D and call it a new game and charge the same bullshit price.

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  49. Austin_Lewis says:

    I agree with everything you just said.

    Seriously, the game is complete.  And even before it was ‘complete’, I couldn’t check my friends list (or turn on my Xbox) without getting a dozen requests to join a versus game.  If you don’t feel you got your money out of L4D, then you weren’t playing it right or something.

  50. Austin_Lewis says:

    Playing only the first 2 campaigns of versus (No Mercy and Blood Harvest), along with all the other stuff, it was well worth the 60 dollars I paid for it.  I must have gotten a thousand hours of play out of L4D.

    We got the free content, whether you like it or not is your problem.  Besides, you have NO IDEA if they’ll release more or not. 

    If you knew how to make money, chances are this wouldn’t be a problem to you, so I don’t think Valve needs your take on how to make the $$$ they crave.  A lot of these ‘fans’ seem like whiny bitches to me.  If you feel that the thousand hours most people seem to have played L4D wasn’t worth your 60 or 50 bucks, that sucks for you.  Don’t buy the 2nd one so I don’t have to deal with another jackass getting killed in the first minutes of a round.

  51. hellfire7885 says:

    I absolutely hate purists, which is the type of person I see half these complaints coming from.


  52. thefremen says:

     What I want to know is, what are they going to do for Left 4 Dead 3, coming out July 2010?

  53. DeusPayne says:

     Buy a game for what’s in the box. To have bought L4D under the assumption that it was going to receive the TF2 treatment was naive at best, and dumb at worst. No other Valve game has gotten the same support as TF2

  54. thefremen says:

     Actually it was said before the game came out that there would be additional content, even a new campaign. 

  55. CodeMonkey76 says:

    Really?  I thought releasing the other single player campaigns as ‘versus mode’ maps made the game ‘complete’.  Yeah, they released it early to make the holidays, but by giving out a free update I think they fulfilled whatever promise fans thought they made.  

  56. CodeMonkey76 says:

    So, you’re saying that without the promised DLC, the game wasn’t worth the $60?

  57. Matthew says:

    Just because Team Fortress 2 keeps getting new content for free, that doesn’t mean Left4Dead should too. Why the hell should you get a sequel for free or at a reduced price just because you own the first one?

  58. Kojiro says:

    The outrage is because L4D never felt like a complete game.  It was small, and 2 VS campaigns were left out, only to be released later as free downloads.  It never should have shipped when it did, but they had to make the holidays.  Valve fans gave Valve the benefit of the doubt that they would release free expansions to make the game worth the $60 we paid for it, but that never happened.

  59. Tom says:

    People want to bitch and moan about a sequal coming out, fine.  That’s their prerogative.  But are people seriously complaining that the music is different, the game is brighter and, the crowning piece of lunacy, that "the new character designs seem bland and unappealing so far?"  That’s priceless!

    Designers need a little bit of space to actually, you know, design their products.  When they go on to design new things, it must be understood that those things are, in fact, going to be NEW.  So the people are complaining that L4D2 coming out so soon after L4D is just Valve rehashing the same content to make some extra money while at the same time they’re complaining that L4D2 is in any way different from the original.  If there was any justice in the world these people would be destroying in a puff of logic.

  60. FLAWL3ss says:

     Dude… to the guy saying "…deal with it…Valve is a company. They are here to make money."

    That’s not the point. The point is that Valve promised L4D content to their buyers. They promised those who PAID $$$ for L4D that the game would continually receive updates and it would be worth the purchase to the buyer. The point is that Valve is not staying true to their word… they lied.

    That means they won’t be making near as much money, because they pissed off their fans. If they were serious about making tons of real money, they wouldn’t betray their fans.

     

  61. Bennett Beeny says:

    Yes, Valve is a company.  But companies don’t make money by pissing off 30,000 (as of today’s count) of their loyal fans.  The fact is, Valve is releasing a package of 1, stuff that was planned to be free material to bring the original L4D to a fully finished state, and 2, stuff that was intended to be a DLC update for L4D.  These two additions which should have cost all of $20 tops, are being sold at full game price ($50 – $60), and you wonder why L4D players are dealing with it with a boycott?

    You need to stop brown-nosing the folks at Valve and realise that there are issues that go beyond Valve’s need to make short-term profits.

  62. michaelleung says:

    Valve is a company. They are here to make money. They’re not here to be nice, give you tons of content for free. Deal with it.

  63. chadachada321 says:

    They are dealing with it. By calling for a boycott and by making a list of grievances. You act as though they are calling for legislation against Valve or wanting to sure Valve, when they are simply doing the adult thing by voicing their (completely understandable) views.

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  64. farlander28 says:

    Please read up on the issue, including the reasons why people are so up in arms, before spouting some jackass comment.

    Also, no one cares about your blog. Pimping it in forum/comments = teh fail

     

    "Life sucks, get a fuckin helmet" – Denis Leary

  65. finaleve says:

    Dont forget how they were able to pull the Rock Band 1 tracks from the disc.

    Though this is probably a bad example.

  66. Erik says:

    "now remember this is also a 360 game, how do you release an expansion for a 360 game?"

    The same way that was done for GTA4 and Fallout 3.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  67. thefremen says:

     http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=884519

     

    "Release: November 17, 2009.
    Platforms: Windows and Xbox 360.
    Engine: Source.
    Preliminary Price: $59.99 for Xbox 360. $49.99 for PC.
    Publisher: Electronic Arts (according to Amazon.com)."
     

     

    As far as people who don’t own the first game: frak them. They aren’t going to buy the second one since it is exactly the same thing only with Uncle Phil and a cast iron skillet.

  68. Murdats says:

    say they make it an expansion

    what about people who don’t own the first then?

    how about a stand alone expansion then? well then that is basically a whole new game

    now remember this is also a 360 game, how do you release an expansion for a 360 game? why not just make it a stand alone game. the difference between a stand alone expansion and a new game are but some minor technicalities

    also I dont believe the price has even been anounced yet, could you link me if it has? it isn’t on the l4d blog yet.

  69. JC says:

    Crazy indeed, when I agree it seems to be an expansion-esque title; especially with how focused it is on replayability. This is one reason why many people are bitching about feeling L4D wasn’t worth $50 or $40 (current price). The gameplay isn’t really different except from having a new director, some new weapons/items and trigger events end after progressing forward instead of time based.

    Yes, it feels a lot like that yearly title thing EA and Activision do.

  70. JC says:

    It is funny, many players are used to valve giving tons of support and freebies, so this is unusual behavior for them.

    I want to buy the game, but I think they’d go crazy and charge 50 for it, so I’m just going to wait until it goes down in price.

    Fans are hard to please, but Valve does try to balance.

  71. Kharne says:

    Or maybe I’m not arguing and just having a little fun. With a statement like "L4D2 is too bright to fit in With L4D1’s visual aesthetic" I just couldn’t resist hehehe. My apologies for forgetting the emoticon, however.

    Oh, and thanks for the suggestion, but I think I’ll be staying, I like this page. But anyways, I’ve had my fun, I’ve explained my post, so I don’t see a need for any further replies. If you feel the need to have the last word then by all means, reply to this with all the fire and flame you can muster. I’ll let you have them, enjoy.

  72. FlakAttack says:

    I can see you clearly understand the argument people are trying to make

    Read the whole post or gtfo, seriously.

  73. Monte says:

     The "sounds like" comes from some of the things said by valve about the game

    "DL: One of the biggest pieces of feedback we got after the game came out, and even after the Survival Pack, was: this is all really great, I loved it, but I want a bunch more campaigns, I want more content. In a sense, L4D2 is a response to what players were asking for after the first one shipped. That’s really how it came about. I think if folks spot us a bit more time, they may see where we’re going with all this. The more they learn about how much there is in L4D2… I mean, twenty new weapons isn’t DLC! Three new Specials, and twenty weapons, and five new campaigns: that starts to feel like a sequel. I think as more gets unveiled as we go from E3 to Comic Con and PAX, and show the game in places where the public can play, and then when the demo comes out a couple of weeks before launch, I think people will get where we’re going, and hopefully don’t think that we’ve turned into some sort of opportunist cow milkers."

    All they talk about is new weapons, enemies and campaigns(developed in under a year); ALL of which, could have been added to the first game (via downloads or expansion pack) and not need a second game… there is not a single word about significant gameplay changes that would make it warrant a true sequel… i mean those kind of additions is exactly WHY developers make expansion packs in the first place instead releasing a whole new game…

  74. MrKlorox says:

    The Diablo complaint was indeed mostly bullshit spewed forth by rabid fanboys stuck in a time period. The darkness of L4D isn’t about color, it’s about visibility. Listen to the dev commentary.

    I can safely say I’m not a rabid L4D fanboy as I never even felt they ever offered it for the right price. It’s a 20 dollar game that they tricked morons to pay 50+ for. I didn’t buy it at $20 on steam that one weekend because it was supposed to be a SALE for LESS than it should be for retail.

  75. MrKlorox says:

    I love how people stop reading as soon as they see that complaint. I could tell that point would be the Achilles heel of this whole argument. Some people…

    Well if you’d played the developer commentary you’d know that the darkness was a HUGE factor to the L4D feel.

  76. Kajex says:

    "There does seem to be some reason to doubt that… from what it seems, it sounds like they did not plan to make a sequel and this is more of an after thought. From what was said it sounds like they make a shit load of content that they WERE going to make downloadable, but then they realized they had so much content that they decided to make the new content into a new game in and of itself…"

    2 counts of "seems like" and "sounds like" each, and the rest of it conjecture. As I said- we don’t know. None of us are developing, most of us aren’t even going to see the game until it’s released. You can’t make a whiney "not thinkin’ about us consumers" argument based purely on conjecture.

  77. Monte says:

     " or if it’ll make use of a new gameplay system that demands a second game instead of an expansion of the first. "

    There does seem to be some reason to doubt that… from what it seems, it sounds like they did not plan to make a sequel and this is more of an after thought. From what was said it sounds like they make a shit load of content that they WERE going to make downloadable, but then they realized they had so much content that they decided to make the new content into a new game in and of itself…

    Knowing that and the fact the game is only coming out a year later(new gameplay elements take a long time to implement and test) it’s doubtful they could have added gameplay elements that would actually warrant a sequel as opposed to just an expansion.

  78. Monte says:

     Not to mention that going outside during the day actually makes sense!

    Seriously… being able to see clearly; not needing to watch every shadow; not having to deal with witches… ya i got no idea why anyone would go out to face zombies during the night… aside from "plot says so"

  79. Wormdundee says:

    Sorry, but you saying that the Diablo 3 complaint was legitimate makes any of your other complaints highly suspect. I’m always surprised when people somehow think that Diablo 2 was devoid of colour. How about you play it again? There’s all kinds of colour all over the place.

    Also, check this out: http://www.digitalbattle.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/diablo3.jpg

    Wow, it’s like sunshine and lollipops in that screenshot isn’t it? So no, you don’t have a legitimate complaint. But at least you’re not buying it, I won’t have to worry about bumping into you on battlenet.

    O, and seriously, your complaints about L4D2 are laughable at best. During the day creates a worse atmosphere eh…how can you have any clue about the atmosphere? Unless you’ve somehow got a copy of it, you have no idea how it will feel to play through a daylit campaign. The bland and unimaginative characters bit. Wow. I don’t see how they’re any worse than the L4D characters. Are you even thinking about what you’re typing?

  80. Kajex says:

    "-It is during the day (creating a worse atmosphere)"

    You haven’t played Dead Rising, or watched any of the Living Dead series, have you. Daytime =/= moodkiller.

    "-Its characters are bland and unimaginitive"

    The second game hasn’t even come out yet, and you think you have a good idea of who or what the characters are?

    "-It’s been only a few months since Left 4 Dead was released and I do not feel that it is worth it to shell another $60 for a cheap expansion"

    It will have been a year since the release of the first game that the second will be released. We still don’t even know how full the game is going to be compared to the first when it’s released, or if it’ll make use of a new gameplay system that demands a second game instead of an expansion of the first.

    This is what happens when a game becomes popular enough that the money garnered from it comes in fast enough and in such quantities that making an expansion is trivial at best, supplying a demand for a new game. Too often, people get to bitching about "DAMMIT, THIS IS JUST AN EXPANSION" and subsequently forgo the entire package out of raeg because they "have to" pay more for the "full game".

    So which is it that you people want? Bitching for not being supplied the "full game" even though all an expansion would do is piss people off with interesting add-ons for "an unreasonable price", or bitching at them for making another game potentially from the ground up, and criticizing them for things the public doesn’t have a goddamn clue about to begin with?

  81. Alex says:

    The Diablo 3 dungeon level was also dark and had a great atmosphere. I for one am looking forward to a Diablo game where outdoors it’s not permanently night.

    I’m not under the affluence of incohol as some thinkle peep I am. I’m not half as thunk as you might drink. I fool so feelish I don’t know who is me, and the drunker I stand here, the longer I get.

  82. Ratros says:

    I don’t believe that you can call it a staple when there’s been only one game in the continuity….feel free to correct me if I’m wrong about that one game thing.
     

    I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"

  83. OldManOnTheHill says:

    On the surface, how did the L4D1 characters not appear bland and unimagintive before you were in game with them? The token black office guy, the token gollege co-ed, the grizzled war vet and the biker dude. Not terribly impressive.

    Yes its during the day. Zombies are not the boogeyman and only come out at night. Personally while zombies at nightime is ‘creepy’, zombies at daytime is ‘unnerving and eerie’. A horde of zombies charging at you while wiping boomer bile from eyes is is an ‘aw fuck’ moment regardless of time of day.

  84. thefremen says:

     Just saying the film grain aesthetic has been a staple of the look of l4d, just like having zombie hordes made up of minorities has been a staple of the last 2 RE games.

  85. chadachada321 says:

    The Diablo 3 complaint was legitimate anyways…Diablo 2 was dark and had a great atmosphere, and then Diablo 3 starts to look like World of Warcraft and colorful and cartoony. Quite a legitimate complaint, and a reason for me not to purchase it.

    Left 4 Dead 2, however, is far too similar to Left 4 Dead for me to purchase it.

    -It is during the day (creating a worse atmosphere)

    -Its characters are bland and unimaginitive

    -It’s been only a few months since Left 4 Dead was released and I do not feel that it is worth it to shell another $60 for a cheap expansion

    This is the worst kind of activity that EA does, and I am thoroughly surprised to see such immature business activity from a company that prides itself in releasing good content at a fair price. Especially when we (the L4D community) was told that there was free content to be had, not a $60 repeat of the first game.

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  86. thefremen says:

     Have you seen the videos of the NO level? It’s during the day. Its not that it’s "too bright" like d3, it’s insanely bright. There’s no reason for flashlights.

  87. Orelup says:

    You have to admit though

     

    "L4D2 is too bright to fit in with L4D1’s visual aesthetic"

    sounds EXACTLY like the D3 complaint.

  88. CodeMonkey76 says:

    Yeah, ’cause when the zombie apocalypse comes, the sun goes out and daytime never happens.

  89. finaleve says:

    Most definitely 1 year later.  When they announced the date I thought that it was pretty damn close to the actual day of L4D1’s release.

  90. chadachada321 says:

    They’re releasing a sequel mere months after the first one was released. They should’ve waited awhile. This will allow the content to be better and more original (instead of the simple rinse/recycle that L4D2 looks like) and allow for more people to appreciate L4D1 to its fullest. And piss less people off.

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  91. vellocet says:

    Sorry.  I bought the first game.  It was great.  I will be buying the second.  If those whiners don’t want to buy the new one, I’m glad I won’t have listen complaints over voice.

  92. Liekos says:

    But then you have to consider A2 + B2 = C2

     

     

    And don’t get me started on the slope of A/B – C + 2A…
  93. chadachada321 says:

    And then comes out with C at the same price as (A+B), dividing the A+B+C community into (A) and (A+C).

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  94. Shahab says:

    So wait, are you saying you play games but don’t call yourself a gamer because of the negative connotations associated with the term? Kind of like saying "I was expelled from someone’s anus, but I don’t call myself a shit".

     

     

  95. Neeneko says:

    In other words…. boycott it?

    From a consumer protection standpoint, they have a legitimate gripe. They bought a product with the company promising free updates/expansions/goodies, and then the company did not deliver on those promises.

    While hardly a legally binding contract, it is understandable to be pissed when one spends money on (A+B) and the company only delivers (A)… esp when the company banks on it’s reputation of delivering B.

  96. Zerodash says:

    This is why I don’t call myself a "gamer".  A group of nerds are upset that a company isn’t making games the way they like and are throwing a fit.  Don’t like it= don’t buy it.  End of story.

  97. finaleve says:

    Considering it’s Turtle Rock Studios that handles L4D (which was bought up by Valve but you can bet the whole team and a select few Valve team members handle the project), I’m willing to bet HL2ep3 is still on the slow train.  But I know valve always comes through.

  98. Neeneko says:

    <p>Heh.  I was just thinking that some of those complaints sounded an awful lot like the Diablo 3 rants.</p>

    <p>Still, it is an aggregate list of what a multitude of people are complaining about. So it lumps the stupid in with the legit concerns.

    Though this also highlights the danger of having such a good reputation of catering to your customers. If you stop, there will be backlash… and if you promise things that you do not deliver then the backlash is worse because people actually believe the company (rather then the jaded take people would have against most others).

  99. CodeMonkey76 says:

    Is this serious?  I guess knowing the gaming community it probably is.  Quick, somebody call the Waaaambulance! 

    Valve caters to their customers moreso than any developer out there.  They give *free* updates to their games.  How many other major game companies do that?  They’re list of complaints sounds about as dumb as all the Diablo 3 complaints people listed off when the trailer for that game came out.  These people need to just STFU and go back and play L4D in their parents’ basement some more. 

    Was  I pleased I got free L4D additional content?  Sure.  Did I expect it?  No, not really.  Especially with the economy the way it is, why would I expect a business to give out free products?  The fact that they did was awesome, but seriously, if they didn’t I wasn’t going to complain about it and get all my virtual friends to join some protest about it. 

     

  100. JC says:

    The game is built for replayability, if you hate arcade style games w/o story, then I don’t recommend it.

  101. magic_taco says:

    Ok, I havent play the 1st lfd,i will soon enough, but i dont see much wrong with the second one as long as is doesnt get to bland.

  102. thefremen says:

     I wouldn’t call it consumer protest so much as a bunch of bitchy whiners on the forums. 

     

    Threads like this: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=886585

    And the big momma of em all, the one that the points in the article are lifted directly from is here: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=885287

     

    Vavle is trying to address these people’s issues as best they can by creating a "post ur opinions here" thread that’s been stickied. Valve seems somewhat suprised by this although I don’t know why. They gave TF2 a boatload of updates including new maps and weapons, new achievements, videos etc etc. L4D gets a sequel in under a year and like 1 new game mode which should have shipped with the game to begin with. 

     

    After all is said and done I’m ok with buying the new game myself I just wish there was some kind of discount for L4D1 users who’ve owned a game for all of 6 months and now are hearing that their game is going to be left by the wayside.

  103. thefremen says:

     It’s funny because if it were EA or Actiblizzion nobody would say anything because this is business as usual for those guys.

  104. JC says:

    It isn’t a publicity stunt. Many other players I know are also upset and there are tons of complaints across the board. I agree with many of their complaints however. It does split communities apart, especially now with the ones that want to throw their money at valve and the ones that feel cheated for buying the first, especially at full price.

    I too, wish for a boycott, it’d make Valve drop the price of the title quickly for a discount and then when it hits a price everyone wants, they’ll buy it and support valve.

  105. Murdats says:

    IMO this is genuine, I know several people who are pissed and as soon as it was announced the steam l4d and then l4d2 forums exploded, its completely full of people complaining, infact its impossible to have a decent discussion of either game anymore without it being derailed into a l4d2 is valve telling us all they hate us

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