G4’s Adam Sessler Slams Left 4 Dead 2 Whiners

The unexpected gamer protest against Valve’s E3 announcement of Left 4 Dead 2 has left more than a few obervers perplexed.

Add the name of G4’s Adam Sessler to the list of those who don’t get what the whining is about. On his latest Soapbox segment Sessler takes the L4D2 protesters to task:

We’re going down that path again – this shocking, amazing sense of entitlement that always manifests itself in the gaming community… Valve does not have a habit of screwing people and if there was ever a developer out there I would just kind of give them the benefit of the doubt…

 

They don’t owe you anything. It’s a business… Where were you brought up and in what environment where you hugged so overwhelmingly that you feel that you need to be served as the only person that needs to be considered when other people are making commercial properties? It really is a little bit on the naive side and slightly embarrassing… It’s kind of juvenile… The Internet, when it comes to games, can be such a nation of whiners…

Via: Gaming Today

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275 comments

  1. jedidethfreak says:

    You don’t get it.  This is an issue of extremes.  I’m calling for someone to look in the middle.  The people angry at Valve all think that Valve owes them something.  They assume that, because of the announcement of L4D2, the game that they bought (and some claim to not even like) is done for.  I’m merely asking them for evidence of such, and NOBODY HAS PRODUCED.

    Also, the above comments weren’t merely directed at you.  They were directed at everyone on this board who seem to believe that because they bought something they are supposed to be waited on hand and foot by Valve, the company that has done more for it’s consumer base than any other gaming company combined.

    One game.  They make one game, and a very small minority gets in an uproar.  They think that because they yell very loud they’ll get what they want.  Well, I’m trying to point out that they aren’t infants anymore, Valve aren’t their parents, and as much as they would try to deny it, they don’t have shitty diapers.

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  2. NovaBlack says:

    ”Nobody knows that valve has "moved on."  Has anyone said they are not going to support L4D anymore?  No.  You all just assume they will.”

    really? I Do?

    I think if you read what i wrote i said ”Angry because a) if l4d1 does get these additions, then ”. Doesnt look like i was saying that they werent going to support L4D anymore. In fact i never said that atall. I then said ”And b) because  its taken so long to get the content out there (even if it came out tomorrow”. Hmm in fact that again doesnt say that valve wont support L4D. So stop making stuff up, putting words in my mouth and taking things to illogical extremes.

     

    ”Now, that they made a sequel sooner than you would like, they are the scourge of the industry.  That is being traitorous.  The point is apt.”

    Again.. you really need to stop putting words in my mouth and completely blowing things out of proportion. Have you been drinking a load of coffee or something? You seem easily excitable. I believe what i said was ”Ppl are simply annoyed … And i can understand that". So in your strange world where things can only exists in utter extremes, showing ANY understanding of the reasoning behind the complaints means im calling valve the ‘scourge of the industry’?

    Im done debating with you. You arent actually reading what i write, your taking it, putting it through a process where you replace everything i say with a crazy extreme, and then arguing against the extreme views you yourself (not me!) put forward. Have fun sitting in the corner arguing with yourself.

  3. jedidethfreak says:

    Nobody knows that valve has "moved on."  Has anyone said they are not going to support L4D anymore?  No.  You all just assume they will.  You are among the people that hailed Valve as a champion of the regular gamer because of all of the things they did for us.  Now, that they made a sequel sooner than you would like, they are the scourge of the industry.  That is being traitorous.  The point is apt.

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  4. NovaBlack says:

    ‘traitorous bitches’

     

    .. wow.. its only game…

    maybe you should take a chill pill.  How am i a ‘traitorous bitch’ just for saying that i understand where the complainers are coming from. And go on the Left for dead 2 forums. Tonnes of people have linked to numerous articles / statments / interviews where new content (specifically campaigns weapons special infected etc) were promised for left 4 dead 1 , pre release, numerous times.

    Ppl are simply annoyed that valve have moved onto an entirely new full price game adding all the features that were expected for L4D1. Angry because a) if l4d1 does get these additions, then L4D2 then wont currently offer anything unique from what has been annouced so far. Hell it even uses the same engine, and looks VERY much like an expansion pack rather than a new game. So people are concerned about the sequel. And b) because  its taken so long to get the content out there (even if it came out tomorrow! which it wont, since they have already said they are focusing on L4D2 currently. And i can understand that.

  5. jedidethfreak says:

    Where in that interview did Gabe say a date as to when this all was supposed to come out?  I didn’t see that.

    The fact of the matter is, it is entireley possible that they are working on this "promised" content right now, and have been for some time.  If they are, I hope they stop, just because of you traitorous bitches.  And should this come to pass, I hope they announce that it’s because of you traitorous bitches.

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  6. jedidethfreak says:

    Well, maybe you should stop getting your panties in a bunch.  You don’t have a clue as to what will be happenning, outside of the release of L4D2.  Therefore, you don’t have enough information to make any claims whatsoever.  That’s why it is baseless.

    You’re comparing Valve to EA, a complete falacy.  EA earned their reputation by doing what Valve is accused of doing for over 20 years.  Valve MAY (it hasn’t even happened) do something akin to what EA has done for over 20 years and you all turn on them.  You’re holding them guilty for something they haven’t even done.

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  7. jedidethfreak says:

    What’s your point?  There are more than enough fans to get away with it.

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  8. NovaBlack says:

    no.. it wasnt the DLC PROMISED by gabe

    y’know, the new campaigns weapons and special infected that were promised. Y.know, like the new campaigns, weapons and special infected that were just announced as the selling point of L4D2.

    you are TOTALLY Missing the point.

     

  9. PeterWDAwson says:

    It isn’t baseless. We’re reading the company’s behavior. Right now they’re telling us that they want to pull an EA because they haven’t released any details contrary to this, just ‘trust us.’ Yes the game still has support, but we’re talking about making a game that was going just fine as one into two for no clear reason. This is unprecented for Valve and it has a lot of the fans worried.

  10. PeterWDAwson says:

    You’re still dividing the fan base. They’ve confirmed that the map editor will be for both games, but nothing on the weapons, new locations, etc.

  11. Austin_Lewis says:

    Don’t stay with Valve if you don’t get what you want.  What I’m saying is, don’t act like they owe it to you, because you’ve bought one game from them, to give you more free stuff. You say you know you’re not entitled, but you’ve been acting that way the whole time.  They don’t have to give you more than what you pay for, and you paid for L4D.  They gave, out of the kindness of their hearts, an extra 2 campaigns for VS, and a survival mode and level for it. 

    You are MORE THAN WELCOME to not buy Left 4 Dead 2.  Don’t, if that’s your wish.  But don’t act, like all those whiners are acting, like they should make a special concession, drop the price of the game, or give you more things for free, just because you bought Left 4 Dead.  I own every Final Fantasy, including FFIV; after years, but I’m not demanding Nintendo give me the next chapter for free.  I’m willing to pay the 300 points per chapter.  I know I’m not entitled.

    On the other hand, these people are signing petitions and writing a manifesto DEMANDING that they get their way or they won’t buy.  But you know what?  Don’t demand you get your way.  Either buy or don’t buy, but don’t act like a company owes you free stuff.

    That was my whole point.  I’ve repeated it CONSTANTLY.  If you don’t want to buy, don’t buy.  But don’t act like they owe you free stuff.

  12. Erik says:

    No, you see your whole problem is your mental seizure you have with the word entitlement.  I’ve known from the get-go that Valve doesn’t have to do anything to fulfill it’s customers wants.  But if they make this choice then why the hell should they get our money?

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  13. Erik says:

    Okay you aren’t ignoring entitlement.  Just fucking ignore it for one second.  I *want* more content for Left4Dead.  If I don’t get what I want from a company then there is no reason to do buisiness with that company.  I am to the point where I would drop $10 for a new campaign.  Actually I’m at the point where I might pay $1 to have Mercy Fucking Hospital completely deleted from my hard drive so I would never have to look at it again.

    You see I know that I am not "entitled" to get anything from a company.  At no point in time has anyone been entitled to anything ever.  Because of, you know, free will.  A company can choose to thumb it’s nose at it’s customers.  Valve can and is doing this.  Valve has every right not to do a damn thing in regards to the original Left4Dead.  And that is their choice.  But because of their choice I am not going to waste any time or money on a half-assed sequel.

    I’m not entitled to anything from Valve, but I want things from Valve.  If I don’t get what I want, which is the entire reason a person goes to any buisiness, why should I stay with said company?

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  14. Austin_Lewis says:

    That’s right, you don’t owe valve a thing, and they don’t owe you a thing.  That was my whole goddamn point, and it seems to have taken you three damn hours to pick up on.  Thank god you won’t be on the L4D2 servers.

  15. Erik says:

    Guess what?  I don’t owe Valve a damn thing, so I guess we’re even.  They don’t meet the customers wants and they don’t get our money.  It’s a lose/lose situation, for them anyways.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  16. Austin_Lewis says:

    But they aren’t two comparable terms.  Wanting something is fine, you can want until you’re blue in the face.  ENTITLEMENT, THE WAY THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE ACTING, IS LIKE THEY "DESERVE" SOMETHING.  You don’t.  You got the game.  You got the DLC.  If you don’t like it, don’t buy the next game.  But don’t complain because you feel you deserve more free stuff.

    You can WANT more free stuff all you like.  But Valve doesn’t owe it to you, they don’t have to give it to you, and you shouldn’t act like you deserve it.  

  17. Austin_Lewis says:

    You are, without a doubt, the dumbest fucker on this site.  At no point did I say you’re obligated to buy this game.  If you weren’t born as the result of incest, I’m sure you’d have figured this out by now.  At no point did I say you weren’t allowed to have a negative opinion of this game, no matter how awesome it is. 

    What I said was that, and let’s do it in caps so maybe, just maybe, you’ll finally read it, VALVE DOESN’T OWE YOU A GODDAMN THING, SO DON’T ACT LIKE THEY HAVE TO GIVE YOU FREE STUFF TO KEEP YOUR BUSINESS, BECAUSE GUESS WHAT?  THEY DON’T GIVE HALF A FUCK ABOUT YOUR BUSINESS. 

    Adam Sessler was absolutely right; you’re acting like they need to do just what YOU want so you’ll buy L4d2.  But you know what?  They don’t care if you don’t buy it.  I hope that you will NOT buy it.  God knows, you need to spend the time learning some goddamn reading comprehension so you don’t bring down our countries already mediocre test scores instead of playing video games.

  18. Erik says:

    You seem to have some fucking twisted mental taboo regarding the word entitled.  So lets use a different word: want.  There are some customers who want something, but they don’t feel that the company is supplying their wants.  As the purpose of a company is to supply a person’s wants if they don’t do that then they will lose those customers.

    So just ignore "entitlement" and focus on "want", and maybe then you can see the other point of view for a fucking nanosecond.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  19. Erik says:

    You really are stupid you know that?

    I am under no obligation to buy L4D2 if I am dissapointed with the direction, or lack thereof that the original went. 

    I am allowed to have a negative opionion of the game.

    So, what the fuck is YOUR problem?  You act as if somehow someone not liking a game you like is a personal insult against you. 

    Calm the fuck down, go to your doctor, get him to increase your dosage.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  20. Austin_Lewis says:

    If you had read any of my earlier posts, you’d realize I don’t care if you boycott or not.  I just dislike children who feel they’re entitled to things they’re not.  If you pay 60 dollars for a Tv, you’re getting the TV.  You’re not going to get some free cable with it. 
    So, when you and others like you whine about entitlement, you make the gaming community, as a whole, look like a bunch of spoiled brats that want what you want (and you do seem stupid enough to think everyone, or even a majority, want what you want).

    In summation?  You’re a child, I don’t dislike boycotts, but your reason is retarded.

  21. Austin_Lewis says:

    Hey, read these:

    Please, don’t buy the game.  One less crybaby to leave when he’s getting his ass kicked.

    We’ll be all too happy for you to not play L4D2.  If you feel like it sucked, please don’t.  However, you aren’t ‘entitled’ to a damn thing, and corporations don’t exist to kiss your ass.  Grow up, maybe leave the house once in a while.

    Instead, you complain that you (and a very small minority) feel you were fucked, and say you won’t buy it again.  Whatever, please don’t.  But don’t pretend you’re entitled to something that you didn’t pay for. That’s immature and absolutely retarded. 

    I’ve said repeatedly that no one cares if you don’t buy the game.

    If you don’t like it, feel free to not buy it.  Just realize that no one cares that you don’t, not even Valve.

    *END*

    So, as you’ve seen from previous posts, I’m more than happy for you and the people who are whining because they don’t feel they got what they’re entitled to not purchase the game and pollute the servers.  But don’t sit there and act like the company owes you something to appease your minority of brats, children, and jackasses.

  22. Erik says:

    You didn’t answer my question.  Are you just against boycotts against Valve, or are you for total corporate whore subservience?  I’m genuinely curious.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  23. Erik says:

    If you look there are a number of people who aren’t happy and won’t be giving up any more of their money.  Valve isn’t some fucking charity I’m going to give my money away without a thought to.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  24. Austin_Lewis says:

    And there are plenty of spoiled, children, just like yourself, who will sign the petition, then eventually buy the game, but pretend they made a stand. 

    I don’t care if you boycott, but your reasons are absurd and childish.  Oooooh, they didn’t give me the free stuff they said they would yet, I’m mad.  I don’t feel like the game is complete.  I didn’t get free stuff.  They owe me this and that.  Yeah, that’s really mature.

    If you don’t like it, feel free to not buy it.  Just realize that no one cares that you don’t, not even Valve.

  25. Erik says:

    And yet again you think that people should give away their money to a company for a product they don’t want.  Accept the fact that some people aren’t going to buy your beloved Left4Beta2 and move the fuck on.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  26. jedidethfreak says:

    They did get some DLC.  It wasn’t the DLC that these whiny bitches want.  That’s why they are complaining.

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  27. Erik says:

    And guess what?  I haven’t signed any petition. And I can bet that there are many other shafted customers who aren’t going to sign it either and yet still won’t be wasting their money.

    But I am curious, are you just an uppity corporate bitch with this boycott, or does this extend to all boycotts?  Is it just valve that no one can say anything negative about or should we be submissive to all companies?  Just curious.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  28. jedidethfreak says:

    Except for the fact that most of the people who have L4D love the game.  Therefore, they have given the people what they want.

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  29. Austin_Lewis says:

    Once again, the 30,000 that signed that petition don’t even make up a tenth of a percent of the people who bought left 4 dead.  You aren’t a representative group; as I’ve said repeatedly, you’re the outlier.  The greedy, self-centered, ‘gimme free stuff’ outliers. 

  30. Austin_Lewis says:

    And what you still don’t seem to understand is that out of the millions who bought Left 4 dead, 30,000 signing a ‘petition’ or a ‘manifesto’ isn’t a sizeable amount.  You aren’t the customers, and your desires aren’t their desires.  The vast majority of customers are excited to get another Left 4 Dead, and all the bitching in the world won’t make anyone care about your opinion any more. Why?  Because you, and the whiny children who think like you, don’t even make up a tenth of a percent of the Left 4 Dead sales figures.  They are doing what the customer wants; it just doesn’t happen to be what you want.

  31. Erik says:

    Oh really?  Just me then?  Because I could have sworn that there are other dissatisfied customers, many of them.  But we should just all shut the fuck up and shell out all of our money to our corporate overlords right?

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  32. jedidethfreak says:

    You do know that Valve still supports the original Counter Strike, right?  So your argument about "Why would they still support it?" is totaly unsupported.

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  33. Austin_Lewis says:

    Left 4 Dead 2 IS what the people want.  Just because it’s not what YOU want, doesn’t mean its not what everyone else wants.  And your local gamestop can confirm it for you.  Just ask how many people have pre-ordered it. And stop being a self-centered little cunt while you’re at it.

  34. Erik says:

    If a company doesn’t deliver what a person wants then that person won’t give the company money.  Valve can choose to shaft their customers’ desires if they so wish.  But that may lead to a boycott.  Hey what do you know, a boycott is planned.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  35. Father Time says:

    I’ve never played Left 4 Dead nor have I followed it but from what I hear valve promised DLC for L4D1 which they didn’t deliver and these people think that L4D2 marks the official abandonment of L4D DLC.

    Assuming valve promised them the DLC I sympathize but if they didn’t then I see no point to this.

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  36. Erik says:

    If valve doesn’t give the people what they want, then the people won’t give valve money.  You and Sessler need to accept that and move the fuck on.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  37. Austin_Lewis says:

    I’m responding to your moronic sense of entitlement.  I could care less if you buy it or not, and I’ve said that repeatedly.  If you had any reading comprehension, you’d have figured that out by now.  But you don’t, which may be part of the reason why you feel entitled.  Once again, are you from a welfare family?  Is that why you feel people owe you things?

  38. JustChris says:

    The Internet, when it comes to games, can be such a nation of whiners…

    Well, if I want to quote Marc Ecko on anything, it’s that the gamer community has the worst divas.

    GameSnooper

  39. Austin_Lewis says:

    But, and let me type this in caps so maybe it’ll finally sink in, YOU AREN’T ‘THE PEOPLE’, YOU’RE AN INDIVIDUAL, AN OUTLIER, AND A WHINY LITTLE BITCH.  THE GAME SATISFIED MOST OTHERS, YOU’RE ONE OF THE FEW WHINING CHILDREN, SO NO ONE GIVES HALF A FLYING FUCK THAT YOU DON’T LIKE THE GAME.  Valve doesn’t need your money, there are plenty of others who will buy their next quality Left 4 Dead title.

  40. Erik says:

    Apparently jackasses like you and Sessler DO care if people don’t buy the game.  Otherwise you wouldn’t be responding to a boycott at all now would you?

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  41. Erik says:

    If valve doesn’t give the people what they want, then Vavle doesn’t get money.  This is a simple concept.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  42. Austin_Lewis says:

    I’ve said repeatedly that no one cares if you don’t buy the game.  Learn some reading comprehension.

  43. Austin_Lewis says:

    However, you, like many children, don’t really know what you want, or didn’t do enough research on the game to see if you’d like it.  Then you say they owe YOU something?  They don’t.  They owe the public, and they delivered to the public, and the vast majority like it.  You’re an outlier, and chances are great that Valve doesn’t give a fuck about you, and are more than glad (as are the rest of us) that you won’t be buying L4D2.  The rest of us will buy it, so they don’t give a fuck that one ego-centric child didn’t enjoy it, and they don’t need to spend time kissing YOUR ass and giving YOU what YOU think you deserve. 

    And that, little boy, is called reality.

  44. Erik says:

    You see the thing is they do owe me something.  You see business works by having something a person wants.  Then that person in return gives that buisiness money in return for what they want.  If the company doesn’t or can’t provide that person with what they want then they won’t have a customer.

    And can you honestly say you aren’t fucking sick of the campigns, even a little?  After about a month of play I couldn’t stand to look at the hallways of Mercy fucking hospital even one more time. 

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  45. Erik says:

    "But they don’t have to make a product that YOU want to buy, you self-centered, egomaniacal little jackass, and that is the point here. "

    Then they don’t get my money.  Really this is a simple concept, even you should be catching on soon.  I bet even that knuckle dragger Sessler would have caught on by now. 

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  46. Austin_Lewis says:

     But unfortuantely the game didn’t offer anything that the beta didn’t.

    -except for 15 more levels, more versus options, etc., etc.

    At no point did I say you should buy L4D2.  In fact, I’m glad you won’t be, as I’ve REPEATEDLY stated (reading comprehension will do you some good).  I said you’re not entitled to anything. 

    Of course, I love the constant ‘corporate whore’ line from a person with the mind of a child and a ‘appease me’ attitude towards a multinational corporation.  This isn’t like buying a game that doesn’t work, you made a poor purchasing decision (or you have ADHD, which seems far more likely), didn’t enjoy the game (probably because you suck at it or kept getting kicked for being a whiny little bitch), and now you’re complaining because you feel they owe YOU something.  You have the mentality of a five year old, and the reading comprehension of a retard.

  47. Austin_Lewis says:

    But they don’t have to make a product that YOU want to buy, you self-centered, egomaniacal little jackass, and that is the point here.  Also, if you buy a product and YOU don’t like it, it’s not THEIR fucking problem, and they don’t ‘owe’ you a damn thing.  What about the fact that YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO ANYTHING can’t you ram through that fat balloon you call a head?  Goddamn, if you had 2 brain cells to rub together, this should be easy to understand.

    At no time did i say you shouldn’t buy L4D2.  I said you were a retard for wanting the company to cater to you and acting like they owed YOU something.

  48. Erik says:

    I really don’t give a flying fuck what you say.  I am a customer and Valve is the company.  I get what I want or they don’t get my money.  What about this isn’t penetrating that thick ass skull of yours?  A company makes a product that a person wants to buy, or the person won’t buy it.  This is a really basic concept.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  49. Erik says:

    If you are happy with this half game, more power to you.  The campaigns get boring about the second play through and the versus modes about one play sooner.  I bought the game because the demo was good, as far as demos go.  But unfortuantely the game didn’t offer anything that the beta didn’t.

    So sorry, Valve isn’t getting my money for L4D2.  I’m not going to pay for a second incomplete game.  And guess what?  Despite what you think I have every right not to buy L4D2.  Can you handle that, or does it hurt your sensitive corporate whore sensibilities?

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  50. Austin_Lewis says:

    Fun story, Valve doesn’t need to ‘live without money’, because for the 30,000 whiny children who say they won’t buy it for whatever reason (and this is assuming they actually go through with it), MILLIONS more will.  Why?  Because the first Left 4 Dead was an awesome (and complete) game. So, it doesn’t matter if bratty children who feel ‘entitled’ to free DLC don’t buy it, others will.  And we’ll play it with 30,000 less whiny children on the servers, which will enrich the experience for all.

    Once again, you’re not ‘entitled’ to anything, and that’s the kind of thinking that we need to get rid of in this country.  You’re not entitled to food, you’re not entitled to money, you’re not entitled to healthcare, you’re not entitled to technology.  You have to earn it.  So, when you make that 60 dollars flipping burgers and spend it on a bad product, you’re fucked.  Caveat Emptor.  Instead, you complain that you (and a very small minority) feel you were fucked, and say you won’t buy it again.  Whatever, please don’t.  But don’t pretend you’re entitled to something that you didn’t pay for. That’s immature and absolutely retarded. 

    Related note, were you raised by welfare parents?  They seem to have a lot of that ‘entitlement’ bullshit in that part of society.

  51. Austin_Lewis says:

    Left 4 Dead is, in every way, a complete game. IT HAS:

    A complete campaign mode, comprised of 4 chapters and 20 total missions (more than most FPSs these days). 

    A character roster, complete and with interesting characters, the right size team for the levels, and interesting in-game interaction in the form of quips and jokes.

    A beautifully modeled world.

    A slew of enemies, including 5 awesome ‘boss’ style enemies (more than most FPSs games have). 

    A robust online experince allowing for co-op, versus, and survival modes, all of which are good for DAYS of fun.

    A good selection of weapons to satisfy all the basic weapon classes; shotgun, rifle , mgun (the Ar15 might as well be a machine gun for this game), and the back up pistols.  Also, Pipe Bombs and Molotov Cocktails. 

    Oh yeah, this game feels like it’s ‘stuck in beta mode’.  Half-wit.

    Here’s a better comparison for you, jackass.

    If you paid someone to mow your front lawn, and then you bitched when they didn’t mow your back lawn for free, do you deserve the free mowing on your back lawn?  Of course not.  They did the full job, you just want extra for free because, as I’ve mentioned, you’re spoiled.  By the way, nowhere did they say they might not make more DLC for L4D, so your point becomes even less and less relevant.

    Also, if Valve thinks you’re stupid, they’re right on the money.

  52. Erik says:

    Answer this: I can survive without the half game Left4Dead or it’s ridiculous sequel.  Can Valve live without money?  These companies and their puppets need to sit down and shut the fuck up.

    And Austin, just because I’m entitled to something doesn’t mean I’m going to get it.  But if I don’t get what I want then the company doesn’t get money.  Is any of this sinking through your skull yet?

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  53. Austin_Lewis says:

    A few things. 

    A) There are three types of people who didn’t like L4D.  1) people who don’t like FPS.  That’s fine.  2) People who don’t play online.  If you don’t, you’re an idiot.  3) People who suck at the game, the same crybabies who leave after getting trounced in a round or two.  Which one of these sounds like you?

    B) Please, don’t buy the game.  One less crybaby to leave when he’s getting his ass kicked.

    C) Nothing about L4D was less than great.  The characters were awesome, the banter was interesting (at least the first few times), the levels were imaginative and innovative, with the perfect blend of CQC and outdoors action, the difficulty was spot on, the zombies were great, the weapons were awesome, and the graphics were fantastic.  It’s not an ‘adequate game stuck in an eternal beta phase’ by any stretch of the imagination. If you don’t like it, by all means, fuck off to the worlds of COD and GoW, two games that are, in fact, adequate.  Leave the great game for the big boys.

    We’ll be all too happy for you to not play L4D2.  If you feel like it sucked, please don’t.  However, you aren’t ‘entitled’ to a damn thing, and corporations don’t exist to kiss your ass.  Grow up, maybe leave the house once in a while.

  54. Erik says:

    Yes, people don’t want L4D2 to be made, because they are still waiting on Valve to deliver a complete game in regards to the original L4D.  So now they want to milk us for MORE money on a sequel when they can’t even deliver on the original.

    Now if you paid someone up front the money to mow your entire yard but they only mow half and THEN come after you for more money to clean your gutters would you give them the money?  No of course not.

    Valve must really think we are some stupid whores.  I uninstalled L4D the day that this bullshit was announced at E3.  Very bad form Valve.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  55. Austin_Lewis says:

    You can expect all you want, but you’re not ‘entitled’ to anything, and that was my point.  Goddamn, you are dense. You aren’t entitled to anything, and such a belief is childish.

    As for quality, Left 4 Dead WAS quality.  And I have no doubt that Left 4 Dead 2 will also be quality.

     

  56. jedidethfreak says:

    No.  He wasn’t talking about people who didn’t like L4D.  He was talking about people who don’t want Valve to make L4D2.  If people don’t like L4D, they won’t give two shits for L4D2.  Why would they?  They didn’t like the first, so why would they care about the second?

    I guess my question is, if you think the first one sucks so bad, why do you even care about valve making a sequel?

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  57. jedidethfreak says:

    Valve expects you to give them more money?  You mean, you got a letter or e-mail from Valve executives saying that if you didn’t give them money they were going to do something bad to you?  That should be in the news…

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  58. Wolvenmoon says:

    They’re a console development company now. Their customers are cash cows to them, nothing more.

  59. Erik says:

    No, really there are many other people as well.  I’m pretty sure that Sessler made mention of them, you know in the entire fucking point of this story.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  60. Erik says:

    Actually no.  I gave them my money and in return got an adequate game stuck in an eternal beta phase.  And now Valve expects me to give them more money.  And Sessler and the rest of you expect that I should just give them MORE money.  No, not going to happen.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  61. jedidethfreak says:

    You seem to be the only person on the entire planet that doesn’t enjoy this game.  So, I suggest you take my advice and sell it.  At least then you’ll get some of your money back, and you’ll no longer have a reason to whine.

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  62. jedidethfreak says:

    Who says they won’t continue to support L4D?  Somebody, please post a link to the page where someone at Valve distinctly says they will stop any support whatsoever for L4D when L4D2 comes out.

    Also, because of the fact that Valve has a history of not doing things like this allows me to give them the BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT.  This is like saying that if Mother Theresea forgot to pray once, she is immediately going to hell.

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  63. Erik says:

    It could become a quality game if it ever gets out of the eternal beta stage it seems to be stuck in.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  64. jedidethfreak says:

    Do you believe that the original L4D isn’t worth the money you paid?  If you don’t, sell it and shut up.  If you do, then your post makes no sense, because that means that L4D isn’t a substandard product as you claim.

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  65. thefremen says:

    Yeah but they’ve said they WILL come up with the content described in that interview.  

  66. jedidethfreak says:

    Nobody said they were entitled to your money.  You gave it to them freely, and in return got a very good game.  Now, you seem to think that, because of your one-time payment, Valve has to do whatever you want for the rest of time, and that they are not allowed to do anything that may (or may not) affect the way you play your game.  Well, they are not entitled to your money (unless you have a copy of their game), and you are not entitled to anything more than the game you bought.

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  67. jedidethfreak says:

    People who whined and complained never did anything.  It’s people who DID things that made this country better.  Did Henry Ford whine about how long it would take to build a car?  No.  He developed a way to build a car faster.  Did Harry Truman whine about how hard it would be to end WW2?  No.  He ended it the quickest way possible, with the least loss of life.

    I find it hilarious that the company that has supported gamers the most is being trashed by gamers who think that, because they were always treated so well by them, deserve to be served by them hand and foot.

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  68. Erik says:

    Just because I comprehend what someone has to say doesn’t mean I have to agree with them.  They think that people should shut up and hand Valve their paycheck.  And if that is what floats their boats, then good for them.

    But there are people who disagree and expect a quality product before we part ways with our money.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  69. Danath says:

    People are confusing "Valve can do what it wants" with "What people expect from Valve".

    Look at any of their games, long lasting, constant support, plus interviews when L4D came out saying it would get the TF2 treatment, it didnt, so people are complaining. This is not rocket science, this is marketing, when you say something, or you have a reputation for something, you are building an EXPECTATION, when you violate that expectation, people will be angry, it doesnt matter whether you HAVE to do it, and guess what, with L4D people GAVE Valve the benefit of doubt, and are now complaining that their trust is violated.

    Interviews with Chet/Gave have stated that they wish to release new campaigns, new weapons, new zombies for L4D when it came out… it never came, and lo and behold, L4D2 comes out with what people expected for L4D1.

    Also hilarious, people saying "If you don’t like it, dont buy it", well guess what, they arent, and they are just making their displeasure known, you cant say Valve can do this, because if you look at anything else released by Valve, you would know this isnt the kind of behavior expected from them, and THAT is what is important.

    Edit: Nobody even try to point out "Survivor" or "New Versus" as Versus was available in all 4 maps anyways, all Valve did was change a few climb points before releasing the remaining 2 maps, and Survivor would have been created within a week (and people were already doing it with cheat codes) of the release of the SDK.

  70. jedidethfreak says:

    Alright then.  Based on your obviously Ivy-League understanding of the United States Constitution, what is Freedom of Speech?

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  71. jedidethfreak says:

    Again, who are you to make that claim?  You don’t know anything as to how they run their company, so stop making baseless accusations about stuff you know nothing about, just because someone hurt your feelings.

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  72. Tom says:

    Is there a reason why you have the reading comprehension of a gnat?  Seriously man, use your brain just a tiny bit and attempt to comprehend what other people are saying.

    Actually, you know what?  Never mind.  Please, just keep doing what you’re doing.  It really is much more entertaining this way.

  73. jedidethfreak says:

    Your point about the US auto industry is based on a lie told by foreign car companies, that American cars can’t do what they can.  As far as reliability is concerned, no foreign car company can compete here in America with American reliability, mostly due to the fact that replacement parts are hard to find and expensive.  Also, a lot of American car parts are interchangeable (within particular auto companies), whereas foreign cars don’t have that luxury.  If anyone is actually worried about not being able to find parts for their car, it’s only because they have never heard of a salvage yard.

    And if anyone is worried about Valve not supporting a game they made, they don’t know Valve from crap.  Even if Valve decides not to support L4D, it would be the first game they ever released that they didn’t support.  I mean, they still support the original Counter Strike.  Therefore, I would have to assume that either a) the whiners don’t know about Valve’s reputation, or b) they don’t care about Valve’s reputation, and feel like whining for whining’s sake.  I do understand where they’re coming from, but if any game company deserves the benefit of the doubt, it’s Valve.

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  74. Vaemer-Riit Sneaky Cheetah says:

    My point of view on the whole thing is that valve is shooting themselves in the foot.

    They DID promise to update the original L4D.

    ________________________________________

    GameSpy: You said that the game is split into four campaigns. Are you planning for future downloadable campaigns?

    Gabe Newell: Very much so. We’re right in this transition. In the pre-Internet world you can only think of what you were offering customers as a box. You put everything into it, and thought of it as a one-time release. Now, customers want an ongoing entertainment service. So with Team Fortress 2, our product that’s furthest along in terms of doing that, we found that the best way to get new customers was to get excited existing customers.

    And the best way to do that was to release new maps, new weapons, add achievements. They’re really interested in the characters and the story behind them. Every four to six weeks we’ve released movies about the characters. We just released a movie about the sandwich, which actually people have really enjoyed. We still need to release these boxes, these point releases, but as we continue to release new campaigns, new characters, new weapons, and tell stories about these characters, that’s the best way to grow the community.

    A lot of the value of a game like Left 4 Dead or a game like Team Fortress 2 is the community around it, since those are the people that you get to play with, and that’s where you’re deriving a lot of your enjoyment. So we’re taking the same approach that we’ve taken with Team Fortress 2, and doing that for Left 4 Dead.

    http://uk.pc.gamespy.com/pc/turtle-rock-project/902345p3.html

     


    Now the only new campaigns I have seen are a single map that is smaller than any one section of the original campaigns and 2 campaigns re-released for VS mode.

     

    Now I don’t think the 2nd game should not be released, I don’t even think it should be free. What I do believe is that it should be integrated into the original L4D as paid content at around 25-30$.

     

    This prevents the community from being split into 2 different games and still lets valve make money. Unlike Valve’s other sequel’s there is NO engine change from L4D to L4D2.

     

    They are irritating their fan base and splitting the community for this game, and both of those things are a bad idea when you are trying to sell something.

     

    Just my 2 cents

     

  75. Erik says:

    If you Austin and Sessler are happy with mindlessly dishing out your money for substandard products then have at it.  I won’t try to stop you.  But I on the other hand will recall that these people exist on our good graces, and not the other way around.

    Really, you all make it sound like we should just shut up and part ways with our money.  I’m sorry to inform you and valve that I will not be buying L4D2.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  76. Wormdundee says:

    The stupid, it burns.

    I’m going to try to respond to you civilly at this point, we’ll see how it goes.

    So, your first sentence attempts to say that Valve are idiots for making a sequel. Alright, fair enough. I guess we’ll see if that’s true when Valve releases it. But man, your appeal to passion and emotions is pretty obvious when you use terms like ‘mindlessly slavish’ and ‘drones’. I’ll wager that they are not idiots at all and they will probably make massive amounts of money from this sequel. If the ‘drones’ go out and ‘mindlessly slavish’ their money on what is, according to you, a non-quality product by Valve, who is the idiot here?

    "People have every right to expect a quality product."

    May I point you at a little thing called Caveat Emptor? There have been some modifications to this rule yes, but generally the onus of making sure that you are not buying a pile of burning shit is on the customer.

    And seriously, what is up with your comments regarding Austin expecting you to shit your money away? I don’t remember him saying that you should absolutely go out and buy this game. Vote with your money and don’t buy it if you don’t think it’s quality.

  77. Deamian says:

    Totally agree with Adam, although…

     

    L4D2 Valve? Way too soon ; give us more free content on the already small L4D.

    A fucking boycott group? Way too fucking late… L4D is out, and it has a very profitable name already.

     

     

  78. Erik says:

    And despite what corporate puppets like you and Sessler think, Valve is not entitled to my money.  People have a right not to buy shit.  And if I don’t buy one of these games it’s no loss for me.  On the other hand if no one buys these games then it WILL be a loss for these assholes.  Loss of money, loss of jobs, etc.

    I just really don’t think that you have any idea on just whom is dependant on whom in the customer/company relationship.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  79. Wormdundee says:

    Just a heads up, that’s his signature.

    Also, it doesn’t say that you can say anything you want without consequences. 

  80. Alareth says:

    "Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings."

     

    No, it most certainly does not.  Do they even teach civics in schools anymore?

     

    The definition of Freedom of Speech has expanded over the years, but it isn’t a free ride to say anything you want without consequences.

  81. Austin_Lewis says:

    I didn’t realize it was ‘shitting your money away’ to buy quality games like Left 4 dead was and Left 4 Dead 2 will most likely be.  If you don’t want to buy it, please don’t.  We need less retards and whiny children on the servers, you babies tend to quit after getting your ass handed to you once or twice.

    Oh yes, I’m a corporate sock puppet.  Ooooooh.  Because you make all your own clothing, farm all your own vegetables, etc.  What an immature person you are.  

    Here’s a hint; if you don’t want to play a game, don’t play it.  But don’t act like you’re ‘entitled’ to things you aren’t.  They’ve already released DLC for the game once, and they may well do it again, and they did it out of the goodness of their hearts.  I guarantee that most of the people complaining would have bought the game either way, at the same price they did, with or without DLC.  You’re not ‘entitled’ to free DLC.  You’re not ‘entitled’ to great games.  You spend your money on what you want, and sometimes you’ll get screwed.  And then, when you get a quality game, you’ll act like a whiny brat.

  82. vellocet says:

    I think there’s something that hasn’t been touched on… and that’s the "cry-wolf" factor. 

    It’s well known that gamers have an image that they tend to complain about everything.  (Try being a developer, it’s nuts.)

    I really don’t see the value in complaining about something like this.  Or (especially) the Diablo colour thing.  It’s sad that that’s they image that we’ve got, and it significantly devalues our opinions when there’s something real to complain about.

  83. Erik says:

    No, expecting that people should mindlessly slavish their money on these companies like drones is idiotic.  People have every right to expect a quality product.  The reason that fools like Sessler aren’t sucking cock on some street corner is due to our money.

    But no, really, if you wish to be some corporate sock puppet then by all means do so.  But don’t expect the rest of us to shit our money away.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  84. Austin_Lewis says:

    You know who we should really ask?  All the people who’ve made mediocre games that keep selling. 

    By the by, the CD-i sold 570,000 units at an initial price of a cool grand, so I don’t think they lost out on that.

    Like I said, you’re not ‘entitled’ to anything.  If you buy a game and don’t like it, that’s your problem.  If you don’t get what you expected, that’s your problem.  What YOU are saying is childish and idiotic. 

  85. PeterWDAwson says:

    Well to be fair the Phillips CDi sucked.

    But yeah, retail exists to cater to the public’s demand. It’s why you don’t find Code Red Mountain Dew at any of the stores I go to, nor Doritos 3Ds. Buying those was not reasonable for the public even if they were delicious. The problem is people are identifying this as a money-milking practice akin to the EA Madden franchise after the company promised they would be focusing on supporting the original game. This is not reasonable for people who are staging active protest. It’s way too soon to criticize them as they could easily become sizeable. If its just 5 guys then they shouldn’t even be mentioned. Hell, the mere fact that its a decent-sized ‘whiner’ group is a good reason to stop and consider this, proving they have a point of some sort, even if you don’t agree with it.

  86. Erik says:

    "You’re not ‘entitled’ to anything, save a functioning product.  And by functioning, I mean that it spins in the disc tray, can be read, and can be played."

    Ask Phillips how well that worked out for them.  The CD-i had discs and they did spin.  Sorry skippy, try again.  It comes down to the fact of the matter that these companies remain in buisiness on our whims.  Sessler, and frankly you, trying to turn around the customer/producer dynamic frankly makes me sick.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  87. Austin_Lewis says:

    Bzzzzz, wrong Erik.  You’re not ‘entitled’ to anything, save a functioning product.  And by functioning, I mean that it spins in the disc tray, can be read, and can be played.  If you were ‘entitled’ a ‘quality product’, then the Wii would have almost NO lineup to speak of.  Your thought process is astonishingly self-centered.  ‘Honor’ed with your money indeed.

    And Left 4 Dead was, absolutely, a quality product.  Few bugs, few glitches, fun game, and fantastic multiplayer experience 

  88. Erik says:

    Bbbbzzzzzzz, wrong Sessler.  We are entitled to a quality product, that is why we give them the honor of our hard earned money.  But these companies are not entitled to our money.  These uppity companies and their talking heads need to realize just who supports who.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  89. Charax says:

    I can’t speak for anyone else boycotting the game, but this is the basis for my personal boycott. Gabe made very specific promises about the extra content they’d release for Left 4 Dead (not Left 4 Dead 2) and the manner in which they’d be delivered.

    So far, only one of the pieces of content he promised has been delivered – extra achievements. Therefore I’m not buying L4D2 until the rest of the content is delivered.

    I agree, it’s stupid to boucott a sequel because it came out too fast, but it’s perfectly reasonable to boycott a sequel because promised content for the original game hasn’t come out yet. Once Gabe delivers on his promises, I’ll be more than happy to buy L4D2.

  90. Michael Brooks says:

    I’ll say what I said, and what I’ve always said, after I first saw his pretenious, stuck-up show: **** Adam Sessler. And **** everyone who complains about "whiners."

    L4D consumers are getting screwed by Valve. You just come off as a douchebag when you say companies have some kind of right to screw their customers.

    So Sessler, to answer your question, we were born in AMERICA, where the whiners and complainers always made things better. If you don’t like the complaining, don’t listen to it. But while you suck Valve’s dick like the little tool you are, "whiners" will be spending their money elsewhere. Then we’ll see how much attention Valve pays them.

    I’m still unhappy with this post. These kind of comments just make me so mad I can’t write coherently.

  91. chadachada321 says:

    "suggests" =/= "know exactly"

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  92. chadachada321 says:

    Agreed, 2 out of the 3 vehicles my family owns are Hondas, one that is older than me and still kicking.

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  93. chadachada321 says:

    1000% agreed. I like your idea to, of merging the L4D1 maps and stuff…

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  94. Monte says:

     Or more simply put… making L4D2 an expansion pack for L4D1… cause really, lots of new weapons, enemies, and campaigns for a game that’s only been out for like a year is pretty much the exact reason why people make expansion packs instead of releasing whole new games.

  95. NovaBlack says:

    yeah agreed.

     

    I actually posted on the forums saying itd be great if they did some fiurst week preorder bonus, where if you already own L4D 1 you get L4D2 50% off.

    I mean financially its 100000 % do-able, they make so much profit off digital sales its crazy

  96. Tom says:

    The horror!  The horror!  Those people… trying to find other quality people to play a game with in a barren L4D landscape and always failing because everyone’s playing L4D2!  It’s… it’s too terrible to contemplate!  I weep for those poor lost souls…

    Yeah, but seriously, go outside.

  97. ezbiker555 says:

    Edit: On second thought seeing as most of the comments are just ripping everyone apart I’ll just keep my mouth shut. 

  98. Tom says:

    Wow, this is fun.  My favorite part is the bit where people are dumb.  It’s classic internet.

    To the people complaining that Valve must have started working on L4D2 before L4D was completed – you’re almost right but still oh so wrong.  L4D2 features stuff that they wanted in L4D but chose not to implement for whatever reason.  When the developers were given, as is customary at Valve, the option to choose their next project they said, "hey, we want to make L4D2 and use all those cool ideas we didn’t put in L4D!  And let’s get started right away!"  The image of the whip-cracking uber-capitalist towering over developers and pissing on cowering consumers isn’t exactly correct in this case.  It’s more like a scenario where creators decided to, you know, make something and *gasp!* sell it.

    To paraphrase: IT IS NOT A CONSPIRACY TO SCREW YOU.

    The people bitching about the art direction in the game are just morons.

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