Video Games Are Equivalent to Fighting Words, Conservative Group Argues in Supreme Court Brief

The conservative Eagle Forum has filed an amicus (friend of the Court) brief with the United States Supreme Court in support of California’s 2005 violent video game law.

As GamePolitics reported last month, California Attorney General Jerry Brown petitioned the High Court to review a U.S. District Court ruling that the state’s 2005 law blocking the sale of violent games to minors is unconstitutional. A three-judge panel of the 9th Circuit Court upheld the District Court decision in a February ruling.

The family values group, founded by conservative Phyllis Schlafly (left) in 1967, filed the brief on Monday. The document was authored by Andrew Schlafly, son of Phyllis and founder of Conservapedia (sort of the anti-Wikipedia). In the amicus brief, the Eagle Forum lays an array of societal problems at the feet of violent video games: bad grades, violent behavior, poor graduation rates, school shootings, game addiction and even sudden death.

We’ll let the Eagle Forum’s laundry list speak for itself (with a little help from GP’s trusty red pen):

The First Amendment does not render our nation’s youth defenseless against the predatory, billion-dollar video game industry that churns out increasingly graphic blood and gore for impressionable minds to imbibe…

 

The corruption of our nation’s youth with increasingly deviant video games is a matter of national importance. Our nation’s youth is in crisis, by any measure. A calamitous 30% of our nation’s youth fail to graduate from public high school, and only 32% of those who attend public high school are ever qualified to attend a four-year college…

 

A substantial percentage of teenagers are hooked on these disturbing video games, and spend many hours each week playing them. Moreover, mass killings perpetrated by youngsters are frequently linked to addiction to violent video games

 

The First Amendment does not forbid state legislatures from keeping this harmful material from children. The California legislature, not known to be conservative, protected its youth against the predatory video game industry. It was an error with national implications for the Ninth Circuit to invalidate the California statute…

Violent video games hurt children in two ways. Their increasingly realistic and disturbing images burn into children’s impressionable minds much as pornography does, and the role-playing inherent in a video game causes the child to buy into the rampages of murder and other heinous crimes that he is acting out…

 

The early market leader in video games was Nintendo, which adopted a policy against “excessive blood and violence,” but it was trounced in sales by a 3 to 1 margin by more gory material produced by Sega, and Nintendo learned the message that “violence sells video games to children…”

 

Numerous studies confirm the obvious: violent video games do cause addiction and harm… There has never been a full First Amendment right to flash highly objectionable and disturbing images specifically at children, or to entice them to participate in destructive role-playing behavior

Displaying a shocking image to a child is conceptually identical to the utterance of “fighting words” to an adult, which this Court famously held to be out-side of First Amendment protection…

The stress attributed to violent video games can even be physically harmful. Eighteen-year-old Peter Burkowski, an avid video gamer, collapsed and died of a heart attack while playing games in an arcade…

 

Children who play violent video games have difficulty obeying authorities, treating peers properly, and succeeding in school…

DOCUMENT DUMP: Grab a copy of the Eagle Forum’s amicus brief here.

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250 comments

  1. Father Time says:

    Voting for Obama just because he’s black is just as racist as not voting for him for the same reason. Why do some people have such a hard time seeing that?

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  2. Valdearg says:

    Console Trolls?

    Well, I apologize for lamenting the current state of the Gaming Industry and the Quality of the software they are currently throwing out at us.. I’ll be sure to keep my opinions to myself from now on..

    /sarcasm

  3. Valdearg says:

    I am hardly a troll.

    Troll == Someone who intentionally and repeatedly pissed people off for shits and giggles.

    Me == Normally a nice guy (to people I like), who sometimes has a few harsh words for people who do things that piss me off (Trying to tell strangers how to behave on the internet is one of them). Ask the folks around here. I’ve been here for a while, and yes, I do go off on rants and raves and tell people off when someone pisses me off, but I can also be a pretty nice guy.

    As for the dick comment.. Yeah, I am a dick. Yeah, I am also pretty jaded. I’m also a realist and a pessimist..But that’s what makes me who I am, and I wouldn’t change that for the world.

    As for the "Glee over death" thing. I can tell you I am not mentally ill, if that is what you are saying.. I just don’t much care for people I don’t like. And yeah, it probably doesn’t make me person of the year, but it certainly doesn’t make me mentally ill. It is human nature to be happy at the fact that someone you don’t like has died. It might not be socially acceptable, but it is what it is. Being happy that someone I didn’t like has died is no worse than when soldiers in war will cheer and high five each other after taking out a target. In fact, the soldiers are worse than I am, considering they are the ones doing the killing. (Not that there is anything wrong with that, either.. It just fits my point.)

  4. ZenAndNow says:

    I thought we learned that you were a verbose dickish troll who gets his jollies off attacking people asking others to be nice on the interwebs. He may be tilting at windmills, but if you’re attacking him for at least trying to do a good thing, then you are a troll and you are a dick of epic proportions.

    Like with how people who have stupidly fragile psyches need to see a specialist, you sir need to see someone about the "glee over death" thing.

  5. DraginHikari says:

    The funny thing is most gamers spend more time fighting among themselves they really against those that critize XD

  6. Vortex says:

    It’s pretty ironic considering that they compared video games to fighting words and we ended up using them "Fightin Woids" over a Best Selling Video Games list.

  7. Vortex says:

    @Erik

    The 3rd parties are responsible for the shovelware.  They’re the ones trying to make a quick buck off of the Wii.  I suppose games like SSBB and SMG don’t exist then.

    I thought GP only attracts Jack Thompson as a troll, not console trolls

     

  8. Valdearg says:

    And this is why I have no respect for conservatives. Especially people as stupid as you. You are an IDIOT of the Nth degree. Just… Stop..

  9. Valdearg says:

    It certainly contributes to good grades.. How about we stay on point here, and don’t intentionally misinterpret my words, ok?

  10. Valdearg says:

    I never once said the games I liked should be on the list. It just frustrates me to no end to see shit games on the list. I can’t change the fact that they are best sellers, but I can certainly lament the attitude that Nintendo, among others, is taking with regard to making tons of shitty games that appeal to the ignorant masses, rather than several quality games that appeal to people who truly enjoy gaming as an art form.

    You must really enjoy failing at reading my mind and putting words in my mouth with regards to how I feel about this subject, like most morons like you seem to do. The bottom line is that most of the games on that list are trash. Yes, they deserve to be there strictly based on thier sales figures, but to debate the quality of the games is a debate you will lose.

    Just remember what your "Corporations SHOULD make shitty games for more profit" thinking is going to get you.. A whole generation of "games" like Nintendogs and broken, unfinished games like most of the shit that EA pumps out. Say goodbye to innovative, entertaining and intelligent games, and hello to new generations of shovelware.

  11. Snipzor says:

     "Well, according to people like you, there is no conservative leadership."

    Hold on, let me fix this.

    "Well, according to me, there is no conservative leadership because liberals are always wrong so therefore all of our problems are caused by liberals alone."

    I’ve really got to hand it to you, there’s quite a lot in your tiny statement that you just projected.

  12. jedidethfreak says:

    Okay, put your head in the sand, but when it happens, don’t say I didn’t warn you.

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  13. jedidethfreak says:

    Nobody cares where you’d rather work.  That also has absolutely no bearing on the 20 best-selling games list.  My point is nobody has a right to say that certain games have no business being on that list, unless they didn’t actually sell as many copies necessary to be on that list.  The reason the list was printed here is because of the fact that this list is a crude but effective means of measuring popularity.  Most of these games were critically acclaimed, and were extremely popular on their own merits.  Others were helped onto this list, and MAYBE shouldn’t be because of such, but the fact of the matter is they did sell that many copies.  However, since Valdearg has no influence on the gaming industry other than his personal purchases, making claims that the games he likes should be on this list instead of what is already on there is very self-absorbed, as is claiming that gaming companies should only make games he’d approve of, in order to appeal only to a hardcore audience.

    The fact of the matter is, thanks to Nintendo’s choices over the last few years, we are at a precipice in our industry.  There are a whole lot of people that, until recently, would never have considered purchasing a console.  As such, they will most likely eventually experiment with something a bit more advanced than the party games, just to validate the initial expense of a game console.  Making claims that casual games don’t deserve to be made is a very archaic thought process that makes no sense.  No corporation could survive worldwide concentrating on only their hardcore fanbase.  Why do you think GM and Chrysler are in trouble?  They didn’t expand, and they are dying.  Ford may be on the verge of collapse, but they are putting a big gamble on the table, and if they succeed, I don’t think anything could stop them (except Obama, because I’m pretty sure he’d find a way to gum up Ford, even though they didn’t take a dime of taxpayer money).

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  14. jedidethfreak says:

    Well, according to people like you, there is no conservative leadership.

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  15. Erik says:

    I think it refers to poorly made as in shovelware.  But one can hardly fault Nintendo for doing what they are doing.  If they can make more money with less effort by selling garbage to the masses than by selling quality to those who were formerly their customers then it would be insane for them to take a course of action that would make them less money.

    Nintendo is to the gaming world what corporate assembled boy bands are to the musical world.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  16. lumi says:

    …I’d be laughing at this if you weren’t so pathetic.

    See the comment right above mine, and think about it.  Think harder.

  17. lumi says:

    "If companies don’t make money, they don’t stay companies, you idiot."

    And if they’re not making anything worthwhile, as a game, who cares?  I’d rather work for a company that has a tight budget and is making something new and original, than work for EA and pump out Madden 20XX.

  18. Shahab says:

    Now come one, do you really think Obama is looking to legislate games? This is obviously a rhetorical device used to drive home his point.

  19. Erik says:

    Yeah, don’t try to interact with Jedid.  Here is how it will go in a nutshell: Anything bad done by any conservative isn’t a real conservative.  And anything bad done by a liberal is supported by all liberals and there are none at all who disagree. 

    Though I do wonder just how he manages to ignore the cult of family values knuckle draggers who are at the forefront of the conservative leadership.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  20. jedidethfreak says:

    You can’t expect me to believe that you’re too stupid to see that as a cover for him to try and get his own version of control over the gaming industry, can you?  Obama lovers cite all of the things Bush said in order to get the Patriot Act passed, and the fact that people who dissented were told by Bush supporters, well, something very similar to what you’re saying to me.

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  21. jedidethfreak says:

    If companies don’t make money, they don’t stay companies, you idiot.  It definitely isn’t the sole driving force of any company that wants to exist in the long term, but no company can survive without turning a profit.  Once again, these companies don’t answer to you.  It’s probably a good thing, too, because you obviously don’t know good games when you see them.  Wii Sports does have some control issues, but it’s still a very fun game.  Wii Play is probably only on that list because of the free controller, but Brain Age is actually statistically proven to make people smarter.  As for the rest, these were all great games.  If Super Mario Brothers and it’s sequels weren’t made, we never would have the industry as big as it is.  The Pokemon games are RPG’s aimed at kids, getting them ready for more advanced material, and that’s always a good thing.  With these exceptions, there aren’t any real casual games on that list.

    So, again, seeing as how you disapproving of this list makes you CLEARLY in the minority (if not the only one there), stop pretending to be some sort of a gaming badass and actually do something worthwhile.  If you don’t like the state of this list, how about you make the game you would want to see on this list, and see how it compares?

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  22. Valdearg says:

    Hahahahahahahaha…

    "Get your head out of Halo and MGS long enough to actually think about stuff that concerns more than just you, okay?"

    This comment right here shows exactly how ignorant you are. I never played MGS, never had a thing for stealth action games. And while I played Halo, I don’t really like people who play it hardcore, considering a lot of them have never played anything else.

    Also, I caught the point that the games were all E or T rated, it still doesn’t change the fact that like 17 of them are just awful games, and they were rushed out the doors and onto the shelves becuase the gaming companies don’t have any respect for thier consumers’ intelligence and know that if you put a cute little puppy on it, it will sell like mad.

    Also, cut the whole "Free market RULES!" bullshit. Free Market Capitialism is what causes this whole issue in the first place. When money becomes the sole goal of a company, instead of recognition, praise, and admiration, games become less like an artform, like they should be, and become something different.  Those games on that list, while having the same protections as true, quality, artistic games, are nothing like them. They are pathetic and successful attempts at making games that appeal to the uninformed masses, with no respect given to gameplay or entertainment value. This is what the industry will become in 15 years. Who needs to spend thousands of man hours and millions of dollars on a ground breaking, genre defining, beautifully done game, when you can have your team chug out 20 of these craptacular "best sellers" in the same amount of time?

  23. Valdearg says:

    I can tell you with 100% certainty that I am no troll. I just happen to hate it when people attempt to act like thier shit doesn’t stink.

    To chastise someone, on an internet forum, no less, for being a dick is, well, being a dick. You don’t know this person, and you sure as hell don’t have any influence in thier lives whatsoever. Like JDKJ said, if you can’t stand the heat, get out of the fire.

    To me, if I wasn’t trying to be a dick before, and someone happens to pull the amazingly egotistical, "I’m going to lecture you on the internet about being nice to people", holier than thou attitude. I will make it a point to be a bigger dick to them in the future.

    And, even better, I happen to have no concience when it comes to people I don’t know. If my words happen to cause someone I don’t know to kill themselves, I can honestly say, I wouldn’t feel a damn bit of remorse. In fact, considering my words aren’t exactly that harsh, I might actually be slightly amused at the fact that someone was so fucked up mentally that my snide comment about something pushed them over the edge.

    Yes, I am that callous. Ask JDKJ, I have no respect for people I don’t know, and delight in the suffering of people I don’t like.  I laughed at the way David Carradine died (I had nothing against him, but the circumstances were hilarious), and I was gleeful when I heard the news that Michael Jackson died (I hated that ‘accused’ child molester).

    Yes, I am an unapologetic dick. And, while I don’t go out of my way to piss people off like a pathetic internet troll who has nothing better to do, but I certainly have no qualms about offending people who happen to have caught my ire.

    So, I will ask: What have we learned here? I hope that we have learned that attempting to put out the flames will just cause them to rise, and be redirected towards you.

     

  24. Vortex says:

    @DarkSaber

    "Games that play themselves? Wow, just like a movie!"

    Even though that feature is going to be entirely optional and (in the best case scenario) would allow developers to make a game hard enough for us Gamers to enjoy (not using the "H word"), but at the same time not scaring them off as well.

    …Anyway, I thought we’re talking about Right Wing Elitists, not being Gaming Elitists that give us a bad name.

  25. chadachada321 says:

    How it is now though is like this:

    Conservatives: Little government in economics, (generally) Big government in private (social) affairs

    Liberal: Big government in economics, Little government in social affairs

    Libertarian: Little government in both

    Populist: Big government in both

    Of course, we’ve seen liberals (Hillary Clinton, etc) that want big government in social affairs, and we’ve seen not-so-fiscally conservative types that want government controlling money. So, for definition purposes, social conservative means they want the government to conserve social values.

    Many people like jedithefreak, understandably, will say that the buffoons in this article aren’t really conservatives, because they don’t fit the "ideal" conservative (which wants little money spent on government), although they fit the "social conservative" category quite well. And I can see why jedi wouldn’t want these idiots associated with the same group that he is in, eesh are these fossils stupid.

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  26. Snipzor says:

     Someone post the facepalm picture, the comment above is laced with stupidity and selfishness.

    I’ll have to respond in sequence, this might take a while.

    1) Nobody created "political correctness", its existance is based on a counterbalance against those who preform the exact opposite of political correctness. Do we need to know what that is? No, we don’t. If you read on, you’ll know exactly where the hate comes from (Surprise surprise, it wasn’t the people who believe in liberty)

    2) Liberal comes "Liberty" which comes from the french word "Libre", which means freedom (Or in this case to be specific, one who is free). Try to actually learn the meaning of words before you debate them, so you won’t look stupid.

    3) Social conservatives, are conservatives. This may be a shock to you, but they are more conservative than you are (*Gasp*) because they implement conservative ideology to everything. Small government isn’t a conservative thing, Reagan increased the size of government and he was a conservative. The size of government is Y-Axis ideology (Authoritarian-Libertarian), whereas social and economic policy is X-Axis (Liberal-Conservative).

  27. JDKJ says:

    If I could, I’d much rather be a total fuckwad in the comfort of my own home than on the Internet. Unfortunately, Wifey ain’t putting up with that nonsense.

  28. jedidethfreak says:

    Exactly.  But don’t let uber-cons and uber-libs hear that, cuz the cons’ll torture you n the libs’ll write you a strongly worded letter, as they take your children away because you’re a bad parent.

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  29. jedidethfreak says:

    Don’t forget that crazy-assed super liberals do the exact same thing, just on the other side of the spectrum.  "You didn’t vote for the black presidential candidate?  You must be racist!  You didn’t vote for the woman presidential candidate?  You must be sexist!"  These things were uttered so much during the 08 campaigns that a political cartoonist made a cartoon where this guy asked Dem voters whether they were a sexist voter or racist one.

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  30. jedidethfreak says:

    If you don’t like the games, don’t buy them and don’t play them.  However, just because YOU don’t like the game, that doesn’t mean that companies don’t have a right to make them, knowing they’ll sell and they’d make a fuck-ton of money.  That’s what a company is supposed to do, make money.  Maybe you need a history lesson.  The N64 and the GC were both technologically superior to their rivals and homes for hardcore gaming.  However, they both were outsold by inferior technology because people weren’t making games for them.  Now, Nintendo is back on top because of the commercial successes they’ve garnered with the Wii.

    You don’t run the gaming industry, and you can’t change sales data, so you’re just going to have to deal with the fact that games you don’t like sold better than the games you do.

    The point that was trying to be made, that you missed completely because of how retarded you are, is that 18 of the top 20 selling games of all time are rated E for Everyone.  The other 2 were rated T for Teen, due to some content that is similar to what you’d see on an episode of Batman: The Animated Series.  This was brought up to point out that the most popular games in history are not viloent at all, or are less violent than what would be found on mature cartoons, therefore can’t be the scourge of society that extremists on both sides of the political spectrum try to make it out to be.

    Get your head out of Halo and MGS long enough to actually think about stuff that concerns more than just you, okay?

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  31. jedidethfreak says:

    Liberals don’t advocate more liberty.  That’s why they created Political Correctness.

    Try to actually learn something here. REAL conservatives don’t care about social issues.  They care about a small federal government.  They feel that there are bigger problems in the world than how our every day lives are run.  They believe in the power of capitalism, and think that the government should generally stay out of the way of business, so long as everyday people aren’t being hurt by businesses.

    Also, do you not know the definition of liberal?  It means to apply a lot, as in a lot of government in our lives.  Liberty is not a root word of liberal.  Go back to fourth grade grammar school.

    As far as social conservatives are concerned, they aren’t real conservatives.  They have more than a few things in common with most conservatives, as the movement started out with an unwillingness to change laws for "progress for the sake of progress."  They believed (as most still do) that if the country wanted it, they’d hear about it.  However, most social conservatives are not this bad, as what these people are doing is idiocy.

    So, once again, these people aren’t conservatives, they are idiots.

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  32. Adamas Draconis says:

    true, the schools need more funding, but all the money in the world isn’t gonna help if instead of teaching kids to think, they stay focused on the next "Standardized test"

    Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

  33. Leet Gamer Jargon says:

    Sarcasm, much?

    "We are not at fault! It’s them damn vidjagames! Halb-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-blb!"

    ——————————————————————————

    Game on, brothers and sisters.

  34. Leet Gamer Jargon says:

     

    Ah, yes, the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory, first theorized by Gabriel and Tycho of Penny-Arcade fame. I believe it goes:

    You + Internet + Anonymity + Audience = Total Fuckwad

    Though I may have been paraphrasing there, I believe I may have gotten the gist of it. Though the aforementioned example stated above is an extreme consequence of the Theory, I do feel remorse for the person who committed suicide. My condolences.

    (Though I, too, question the mental fragility of said person at time of said verbal abuse. Other factors may have been affecting him/her, and the effects of trolling may have been the proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back.)

    ————————————————————————–

     

    Game on, brothers and sisters.

  35. Leet Gamer Jargon says:

    YES! That is exactly what went through my head when I read that headline.

    Go ahead, kids! Put a piece of wood on your shoulder, put up those fists, and play some Mortal Kombat!

    ——————————————————————————

     

    Game on, brothers and sisters.

  36. Alyric says:

    Believe me, I agree completely.

    While I won’t be the one retaliating against such a person, I’m not going to extend any sympathy, either.

  37. Saxy says:

    Hmm… well, it really depends. Perhaps I’ve been living in the wrong USA, but I always understood it as such:

     

    Conservative: Believes that the government should be, well, conservative. As in, spend less money, stay out of our business, etc. Hard, unbending view of constitution.

    Liberals: Believes that the gov should take more LIBERTIES to fix things and (hopefully) help the country. Interpret the constitution a bit looser, so that the government can take more action.

     

    But, meh, you could be right, too. I never did too well in that Government class…

  38. JDKJ says:

    Fair enough. Point well-made and -taken.

    I will say, however, that those of fragile psyche, while perhaps entitled to respectful discourse, certainly shouldn’t initiate the shin-kicking. If they do and get their shins bloodied in response, then I damn sure ain’t sympathetic. The mouse who tickles the cat’s nose, etc., etc. 

  39. JustChris says:

    "Family values" is a joke if the ideas are very specific, because every child is different and there are many different ways to raise a good child.

    GameSnooper

  40. Alyric says:

    I really do wish that people who were that emotionally fragile would avoid potentially damaging situations – internet forums certainly qualify.

    Unfortunately, they do not. On the contrary, while obviously everybody is different, I’ve found that many often spend more time in those places. Why, I don’t know – perhaps they’re searching for some sort of support or affection that they are not receiving in real life.

    Which, of course, makes it all the worse when somebody comes along and kicks them in the shins for the lulz.

    So I prefer now, instead, to simply treat everyone with the same respect I would expect – much the same as I would if I was speaking with somebody face to face. It’s something I imagine I should have been doing all along.

    Like the poster I mentioned above, I’ll probably never know if I run across somebody who is that fragile or distraught. But at least I’ll know I haven’t gone around pushing people – perhaps over the edge.

  41. JDKJ says:

    Not that I’m not sympathetic to anyone who feels compelled to take their own life, but I can’t help but wonder what an individual with a psyche so fragile that the words of an Internet troll would cause them to commit suicide was doing on the Internet conversing with a troll in the first place. At the risk of seeming callous, I’m somewhat inclined to say, "If you can’t take the oven’s heat, then stay out of the kitchen."

  42. Alyric says:

    It’s amazing what anonymity and a perceived lack of consequences can do to a person.

    And I do mean perceived, because the consequences can be very real. A little over two weeks ago, a person I know – mostly in passing – committed suicide over a post by a troll in an online forum. That poster will probably never even realize he/she caused someone’s death, and can continue trolling with an unblemished conscience.

    From the little bit of information I’ve been able to find, while these kinds of suicides are infrequent, they are rising.  Even when the damage is not so dramatic, unleashing this kind of bile against someone can cause damage. Not to everyone, perhaps, but you never know who you’re talking to on the internet – and it’s really not necessary to be so rude, is it?

    So have I begun to reevaluate how I behave online? Yes, absolutely. Do I expect to change the world? No, not really.

    But you can bet when I run across someone harassing somebody online, I’m going to call them out on it. I am sorry if you cannot understand that – but there is no need to retaliate over it.

  43. Ryno says:

    Yes. They rule on cases about once a month, during which they consider a bunch of cases and relase them as a batch at one time.

     

    Saying that Jack Thompson is impotent is an insult to impotent men everywhere. They’ve got a whole assortment of drugs that can cure their condition; Jack, however…

  44. Valdearg says:

    Uh-huh..

    I strongly suggest reading every message before you hit "Post comment", and if it’s something that would make you seem like a holier than thou dipshit, either edit it or don’t post it.

    And if you see no problem with this kind of hypocracy then consider taking steps to improve yourself.

     

    There you go, I fixed it so it applies to you now.

  45. Snipzor says:

     No, they are conservatives, this is conservative ideology put in place for social causes. Try to actually learn something here, social conservatives (And yes, all of them, that’s the point of being a social conservative) want nothing more than to see their old time beliefs put back into law. Conservatives don’t care about government, wrong scale, that would be the libertarian/authoritarian scale. We are talking about the social scale which goes from conservative to liberal, liberals believing in freedom and LIBERTY (Some sort of root word affair going on here).

  46. Valdearg says:

    What "Anti-Gaming" comments?

    These ones where he’s suggesting parents get thier kids to exercise more, so they don’t get fat? Or what about the ones where he suggests that parents make sure thier kids do thier homework before playing games? What about the one where he suggests they take them to do some charity work, rather than play games?

    You mean those comments? Those comments that, honestly, are damn good parenting advice? What the hell do you want him to say? "Hey, Parents, forget all that good advice I was giving you, you should make sure your kid plays at least 8 hours of video games a day! That way, he can be fat and stupid, which is exactly the kind of person we need more of in this already awesomely fat and stupid country!"

    Disclaimer: I know games themselves don’t make you fat and stupid, but sitting down all day, playing games, and not studying or doing homework will certainly contribute to that.

  47. Valdearg says:

    "Games Valdearg doesn’t think are crap because he doesn’t understand that immature teenagers and young adult males aren’t the only people who deserve to play video games because he’s a tool who thinks that gaming is only cool when it isn’t mainstream,"’

    Yup, you keep telling that to your Nintendog…

    I’m fine with more and more people enjoying games as time goes on. What upsets me is how far companies, especially nintendo, have dumbed down thier games in order to make money and bring more people to buy games.

    It annoys me that people buy those games, with thier rushed development, poor controls, and very poor concepts, rather than the games that truly stand above the rest in the artform. Games shouldn’t be treated as a giant money grab. They should be treated as what they are, an artform..

    Note: Im not against casual games or the Wii in general. In fact, some of the best fun I’ve had playing a game in the past few months was playing Boom Blox with my Girlfriend and some friends.. Casual games can be fun games, its just that most of the games that Nintendo makes for the Wii and the DS, especially when they are targeted towards the casual audience, are just SO BAD. What makes it worse, is that these people gobble it up, which just encourages the gaming companies to take more funds from quality games and direct them towards these pathetic excuses for games, just so they can increase thier bottom lines.

  48. hellfire7885 says:

    A nutjob-moralist keeping their noses out of other people’s business!?!? Unthinkable!!!!11!!!1!1!11


  49. DarkSaber says:

    Yes mum.

    ————————————————–

    I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

  50. Alyric says:

    I strongly suggest reading every message before you hit "Post comment", and if it’s not something you’d say to a person’s face, either edit it or don’t post it.

    And if you see no problem with this kind of hostility, even in person, then consider taking steps to improve yourself.

    That could go for many of the other readers here, as well.

  51. Alareth says:

    "If kids are playing violent games, it’s the fault of their parents or legal guardians for not making informed choices about their childrens’ entertainment."

     

    No, because that concept relies on accepting personal responsibility for ones own actions.

    Personal responsibility is something we just won’t tolerate in this day and age.

  52. DarkSaber says:

    Well, Nintendo ARE on a concerted effort to phase out the whole ‘gameplay’ part of their games so that more people will buy their products. "Games that play themselves? Wow, just like a movie!"

    ————————————————–

    I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

  53. Alyric says:

    While there are several exceptions to freedom of speech that encompass even the truth, I’m afraid you’ve fallen into a logical fallacy.

    Saying that "Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth." is not the same as saying "freedom of speech doesn’t protect any lies".

  54. DarkSaber says:

    Pro tip: A little seperator between your message and your sig (like everyone else has) will prevent people making the mistake they always make. Any idiot would have worked that out by now.

    ————————————————–

    I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

  55. GRIZZAM PRIME says:

    They probably think that any more than 15 minutes a day constitutes and addiction…

  56. GRIZZAM PRIME says:

    Indeed. It’s also important to note that not obeying authorities isn’t always a bad thing; if the founding fathers hadn’t been rebelious this country wouldn’t exist. Even in modern times plenty of authority figures abuse that authority and don’t deserve respect or obedience.

    That’s one thing that I find especially disturbing about crazy ass super conservatives, they always seem to mistake obedience with ethics and morality.

  57. jedidethfreak says:

    No, they’re idiots, plain and simple.  These people undermine the efforts of true conservatives, who value individual liberty and responsibility, a strong military presence abroad and minimal federal interference with personal lives.  What of this brief fit in with these principles?

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  58. jedidethfreak says:

    They sold more copies than any other game.  That makes them "deserve" to be on a list of the top-selling games of all time.  Now if the list was titled "Games Valdearg doesn’t think are crap because he doesn’t understand that immature teenagers and young adult males aren’t the only people who deserve to play video games because he’s a tool who thinks that gaming is only cool when it isn’t mainstream," then you’d be right.

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  59. Valdearg says:

    Wii sports == Lame pack in with broken controls in all but 2 of the games..

    Nintendogs == Do I even need to expand on that? Nintendogs?! Come on.. Its a game made for children and teenage girls. All you need is some cute animal and BAM! best seller. Not exactly a good game by any means.

    Brain Age == Thats hardly a game. At least in the sense of what generally attracts the serious fans of video games. Those things being a compelling story, emotional attachment, well developed characters.. This is nothing but a series of brain puzzlers packeged in such a way as to fool people into thinking they are getting smarter..

    Hardly ANY of the games on that list (Note that I didn’t say ALL of them) really deserve to be up there. GTA4 was a great game.. The Final Fantasies were Great Games (well, most of them..), Call of Duty was a great game, The entire Black Isle Forgotten Coast games were great games.

    Those games in that list, with a few exceptions, are nothing but trivial entertainment for throngs of people who don’t actually appreciate what true gaming is. At risk of sparking a casuals vs hardcore’s debate, those games were designed with maximum sales in mind, not for advancing the artform. I find it hard to respect games designed soley to take money from a moronic casual populace who think it is awesome that they can Totally pet thier dogs!!!1! on thier DS or Wii.

    It is truly depressing to know that so very few companies exist to advance the art of gaming and to progress games to the point where they are even more cinemactic and awe inspiring than even the best movies of our time. 

  60. Father Time says:

    Hahahaha, I betchya that’s how it went down too.

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  61. Father Time says:

    The guy thought wikipedia had a liberal bias, so what’s an academic man to do, set up a wikipedia knock-off that is neutral? No no no no no that would make far too much sense and be far too honest, instead he sets up a wikipedia knock-off with a tremendous bias towards conservatives.

    Also your post and conservapedia reminds me of a quote from Adam Savage

    "I reject your reality and substitute my own".

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  62. Adamas Draconis says:

    Children who play violent video games have difficulty obeying authorities

     

    Or it could be THEY ARE TEENAGERS… Goddess knows I didn’t have the greatest respect for authority when I was in my teens. Still don’t when the authorites in question are like these assholes.

     

    Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

  63. Father Time says:

    "A substantial percentage of teenagers are hooked on these disturbing video games"

    So how much is a substantial percentage? 30%? 2%? They don’t actually bother posting stats so who knows how much it really is.

    Methinks it’s a low number or that they don’t have any stats since they would’ve actually posted stats if they had a high number.

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  64. jedidethfreak says:

    Considering most of the "liberal media" doesn’t care about Jews all that much, I’d say that comment isn’t apt, but we all could only hope for what is promised by your final statement.

    Also, I find it funny that people say conservatives are trying to undermine President Obama’s policies, but this seems to run right along side his anti-gaming comments as of late.

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  65. Adamas Draconis says:

    Example: "I’m gonna rip your head off an #(&! down you throat"

    Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

  66. crazywes76 says:

     Where are they getting these numbers for graduation rates?  On the Dept of Educations website the national graduation rate for high school students is approximately 75%.  Granted Nevada’s dropped down to 57% so maybe they should just stfu and worry about their own state. 

  67. jedidethfreak says:

    Kind of ironic, huh?  What really sucks for me is that I am a conservative, and these idiots open their mouths, so I call them out for their idiocy (it’s what I do), getting either a) being called a liberal fascist for daring to question these psycho special interest group outliers, or b) not listened to at all because I’m a conservative, thus making me a fearmongering warmongering Bush worshipper who want another 9/11.

    Go figure.

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  68. Shahab says:

    TL; DR

     

    But really, that conservopedia is such a bunch of bullshit. I hate it when special interest groups put together information purporting to be accurate and honest while spewing a lot of bullshit. The sad thing is, a lot of people will not see it for what it is and believe what they read.

    You read about the "liberal-controlled" media and you can just feel they wanted to throw the word Jew in there. Just keep in mind that in a generation all this will be water under the bridge, and a third generation that has grown up with video games will tell these people to fuck off and die.

  69. Adamas Draconis says:

    That and most of what schools are teaching seem to be rote memorization not much actually using what’s between your ears.

    Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

  70. jedidethfreak says:

    Chinpokumon FTW!

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  71. jedidethfreak says:

    No, intentional self-misrepresentation is illegal by federal law, as it is a precursor to terrorist activities.  Nice try.

    Little tip, though, how about you not comment on my sig and actually comment on the story?

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  72. Father Time says:

    Proving once again that ‘moral’ groups and "family values" groups are willing to publish bold-faced lies if it’ll get them their way.

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  73. PHX Corp says:

    "The Eagle Forum is most likely trying to paint gaming in a bad enough light to convince the court that there is a big enough threat to actually rule on it."

    which won’t work, instead it’ll backfire (thier psycotic comments (combined with CA’s Rant filled Cenatori) are going to be the end of the video game law appeal(Like a certain disbarred attourny for the same rant filled comments when he did the same when he appealed his license to SCOTUS only to be denied because of such comments))

    Watching JT on GP is just like watching an episode of Jerry springer only as funny as the fights

  74. E. Zachary Knight says:

    No. They can be submitted while the court is deciding to hear the case. If it is submitted during that phase, the court will use that as part of the decision to hear it.

    The Eagle Forum is most likely trying to paint gaming in a bad enough light to convince the court that there is a big enough threat to actually rule on it.

    E. Zachary Knight
    Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
    http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma


    E. Zachary Knight
    Divine Knight Gaming
    Oklahoma Game Development
    Rusty Outlook
    Random Tower
    My Patreon

  75. E. Zachary Knight says:

    "poorly made"? Actually those are some of the best made games on the Wii.

    Unless you are talking "poorly made" as in they use motion controls, do not have the same graphics as games found on the PS3 and/or the 360, and are made for the Wii, then yes, they are "poorly made".

    E. Zachary Knight
    Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
    http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma


    E. Zachary Knight
    Divine Knight Gaming
    Oklahoma Game Development
    Rusty Outlook
    Random Tower
    My Patreon

  76. DarkSaber says:

    I agree. Life is stupid. And so is the Wii.

    ————————————————–

    I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

  77. Valdearg says:

    Ugh.. Dont make me look at that list anymore.. There shouldn’t be so many poorly made wii games on a top 20 list..

  78. Mr. Blond says:

    What’s the status of the state’s appeal? Aren’t amicus briefs usually submitted once the court decides to grant certiorari? My computer was down for a time some weeks ago, so did I miss anything as to whether the Court granted or denied cert, or are we still waiting to hear?

  79. GRIZZAM PRIME says:

    The corruption of our nation’s youth with increasingly deviant video games is a matter of national importance. Our nation’s youth is in crisis, by any measure. A calamitous 30% of our nation’s youth fail to graduate from public high school, and only 32% of those who attend public high school are ever qualified to attend a four-year college…

    Couldn’t be our shitty schools, could it?

    A substantial percentage of teenagers are hooked on these disturbing video games, and spend many hours each week playing them. Moreover, mass killings perpetrated by youngsters are frequently linked to addiction to violent video games

    I won’t debate the existence of addiction to games; hell people get addicted to food, but FREQUENT? Any basis for this claim? And no, "many hours each week" is not clear enough no claim addiction, you could just be over reacting (likely) or it could just be a lack of discipline and proper priorities. On the mass killing note, that’s just garbage, and it’s been dissmissed by federal investigations into such incedents(see the book ‘Grand Theft Childhood’). Good lord, learn the difference between correlation and causation…

    Violent video games hurt children in two ways. Their increasingly realistic and disturbing images burn into children’s impressionable minds much as pornography does, and the role-playing inherent in a video game causes the child to buy into the rampages of murder and other heinous crimes that he is acting out…

    That’s why games have ratings and content discriptors. And please explain what all this "buy into the rampages of murder" nonsense is about.

    The early market leader in video games was Nintendo, which adopted a policy against “excessive blood and violence,” but it was trounced in sales by a 3 to 1 margin by more gory material produced by Sega, and Nintendo learned the message that “violence sells video games to children…”

    Chamale already listed sales and nintendo’s at the top with one of there non violent Wii games. And once again, I must remind you of the ESRB ratings and content discriptors. Violent games are not intended for children. That’s what the big ol’ M17+ is all about.

    Numerous studies confirm the obvious: violent video games do cause addiction and harm… There has never been a full First Amendment right to flash highly objectionable and disturbing images specifically at children, or to entice them to participate in destructive role-playing behavior

    Please be more specific. AND AGAIN, ESRB RATINGS. COME ON.

    Displaying a shocking image to a child is conceptually identical to the utterance of “fighting words” to an adult, which this Court famously held to be out-side of First Amendment protection…

    No it isn’t. This has already been established by folks like E. Zacheary Knight.

    The stress attributed to violent video games can even be physically harmful. Eighteen-year-old Peter Burkowski, an avid video gamer, collapsed and died of a heart attack while playing games in an arcade…

     Source please? And two things can happen at the same time and not be related. I could be typing this and then have to use the bathroom. That doesn’t mean typing makes me need to pee.

    Children who play violent video games have difficulty obeying authorities, treating peers properly, and succeeding in school…

    Again, source?

     

  80. EvilTikiMan says:

    Fighting words…. fighting words…… thats their reason….. wow.

    Aparently these people never heard "sticks and stones…" before. Ah well, they are extremist nut jobs who are out of touch with reality. Though on a seperate line of thought, has anyone thought a fighting game where you fight with and As words; Literally! Two words duking it out with each other to determine which is better. I’d play that.

    ——————————

    Responsibility: Its time that the next generation takes up the reigns of power in our government, before the old fools who hold them steer this country of ours closer to capsizing. We must act before its to late to repair the damage.

  81. JDKJ says:

    While "fighting words" are most commonly though of as the sort of things said to someone which are likely to cause them to whup your ass, there is, as the Court in Chaplinsky noted, the class of words which by their utterance cause injury. This can be thought of as an expansion of the defamation exception but without the usual requirement that a third-party recieve the defamatory statement. It is enough under the "fighting words" exception that the publication of the false statement spread no further than between the two parties. Of course, it can easily be argued that this is merely six of one and a half-dozen of the other. Having falsehoods about one’s self stated to one’s face is not only injurious but also likely to inspire one to whup the ass of the person stating the falsehood.

  82. Adrian Lopez says:

    – "Quick… think of a form of speech that is legal to suppress."

    – "Um… libel?"

    – "Games are libel? No, no. That won’t do. Give me something that deals with violence."

    – "Um… fighting words?"

    – "Fight-ing words. Brilliant! Violent video games are like fighting words. It’s so obvious! How did I not see it before? Fighting words."

  83. GRIZZAM PRIME says:

    Wow. That bit from the Eagle forum was like a forced abortion to my fucking brain. Seriously, "numerous studies"? Gah, I’ll come back to this when I heal a bit…

  84. GRIZZAM PRIME says:

    Yeah, but to these people Pokemon is an example of grotesque violence peddled to children with cute critters and pretty colors…

  85. Chamale says:

    I really take issue with their claims that gory and violent video games tend to be bestsellers. Let’s look at the 20 best-selling games of all time:

    1. Wii Sports [E]

    2. Super Mario Bros. [E]

    3. Tetris [E]

    4. Wii Play [E]

    5. Nintendogs [E]

    6. Pokémon Red, Blue, and Green [E]

    7. Super Mario World [E]

    8. New Super Mario Bros. [E]

    9. Wii Fit [E]

    10. Super Mario Bros. 3 [E]

    11. Brain Age [E]

    12. Pokémon Diamond and Pearl [E]

    13. The Sims [T]

    14. Mario Kart Wii [E]

    15. Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec [E]

    16. Mario Kart DS [E]

    17. Pokémon Gold and Silver [E]

    18. Super Mario Land [E]

    19. Brain Age 2 [E]

    20 (tie). Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire [E] and The Sims 2 [T].

     

    In the top 10, all of the best-selling games are rated E for Everyone, and there are only 2 games rated T for Teen in the top 20. The only games rated T for Teen have that rating for "sexual themes, comic mischief, mild violence" or "crude humour, sexual themes, violence". Not exactly GTA.

    This is a signature virus. Please copy and paste into your signature to help it propagate.

  86. PHX Corp says:

    I Think The free speech collition and the US supreme court slammed Ashcroft over violent media and said that obsenity only applys to sexually explicit media(and pretty much Yee is screwed)

    Taken from media colition website(via PDF file) http://www.mediacoalition.org/mediaimages/finalcomment.pdf

    As the Supreme Court stated in Free Speech Coalition v. Ashcroft: “As a general principle,
    the First Amendment bars the government from dictating what we see or read or speak or hear. The
    freedom of speech has its limits; it does not embrace certain categories of speech, including defamation,
    incitement, obscenity and pornography produced with children.” 535 U.S.1382, 1389 (2002). The
    Court has never approved the restriction of speech based solely on violent content. Indeed, as shown
    below, federal courts consistently have rejected government attempts to do so.

    I think we have a chance here(for SCOTUS to deny it altogether)

    Watching JT on GP is just like watching an episode of Jerry springer only as funny as the fights

  87. CMiner says:

    "Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings."

    No, freedom of speech protects lying.  It does not protect fraud or libel, however.

    I am completely allowed to come up to you, shake your hand, and introduce myself by the name of Bob Smith.  A lie, but not illegal.  It becomes illegal when I follow up with "..and I represent charity X, would you like to make a donation?" because then it is fraud.

  88. Murdats says:

    ah conservipedia

    set up by a guy who felt that the reality centered wikipedia was being unfair to him trying to change reality by changing our documentation of it

    "I don’t like reality, I don’t like wikipedia because it is reality centric so I will set up my own site and hope that if I say reality is like this enough and get enough people around me that agree maybe it will become true"

  89. Alyric says:

    No, he’s quite accurately defined one of the most important parts of being conservative.

    I’m sorry you have a flawed view of conservatives, but I do not blame you. For the most part, people still equate Republicans with conservatives, and most Republicans stopped being conservative a long time ago.

    And, meaning no disrespect, I am quite frankly tired of hearing the "legislate morality" cliche. Society legislates morality at every turn – take a look at laws against murder, rape, theft, and any host of lesser crimes, for example.

    I suspect that what you mean to say is "legislate religion", and sadly, many Republicans have tried and continue to try this.  However, morality != religion, and it’s a distinction that you need to make; if for no other reason than to prevent somebody from turning your argument against you.

  90. jedidethfreak says:

    Somebody should explain to this chick that the whole point of the ESRB is to make violent games less likely to get into the hands of kids.  If kids are playing violent games, it’s the fault of their parents or legal guardians for not making informed choices about their childrens’ entertainment.

     

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  91. Dragoon1376 says:

    It’s nice to see other people echoing my own sentiments about the political establishment.

    First secure an independent income, then practice virtue. -Greek Proverb

  92. Alyric says:

    In the court’s own words (from the 1942 Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire decision that established the exception):

    (…)“fighting” words — those which by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace.

    Emphasis, of course, is mine. Even ignoring the fact that the research drawing a link between violence and video games is non-existent (or, at best, fatally flawed), I don’t think even the most negative studies would support that.

    And EZK, unless I’m mistaken, "fighting words" seems to be a continuation or expansion of the prohibition against incitement. Typically, you incite a person to violence against someone else – with fighting words, you’re provoking them into violence against yourself.  I don’t believe the fighting words exception would cover abusive or hurtful words that weren’t designed to provoke a reaction.

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