Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game Violence
Tivo Alert: Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Tackles Video Game Violence
July 9, 2009
Tonight's Penn & Teller: Bullshit! is the much-anticipated episode on video game violence.
The program airs at 10:00 p.m. Eastern/Pacific on Showtime. From the P&T:BS! website:
In episode 703, the duo debunks the theory of politicians and other alarmists that playing video games leads to teen violence by handing over a real semiautomatic weapon to a nine-year-old video game player to see if he becomes a human killing machine.
The promo video at left features a guy who is apparently an anti-game violence campaigner named Chris Cooney. I'll 'fess up that - in nearly five years of editing GamePolitics - I can't remember hearing of the guy, so I'm curious to see what he's all about. This is also the episode in which disbarred attorney Jack Thompson makes an appearance.
If you miss tonight's show, the program will be repeated several times over the next few days.
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Posted 11/20/09 at 05:42pm
ZippyDSMlee: oh may the cute stab out your eyes, http://www.youtube.com/user/simonscat
ZippyDSMlee: oh may the cute stab out your eyes, http://www.youtube.com/user/simonscat
Posted 11/20/09 at 05:17pm
JDKJ: O.K. Suit yourself. But when you're wearing Ray-Bans, sitting on a curb with a white cane and a cup of pencils, and doing Stevie Wonder impersonations, don't say I didn't warn you.
JDKJ: O.K. Suit yourself. But when you're wearing Ray-Bans, sitting on a curb with a white cane and a cup of pencils, and doing Stevie Wonder impersonations, don't say I didn't warn you.
Posted 11/20/09 at 05:10pm
ZippyDSMlee: JD:No thank you I don;t want your cooties...or STDs...
ZippyDSMlee: JD:No thank you I don;t want your cooties...or STDs...
Posted 11/20/09 at 05:01pm
JDKJ: Me. I'm rehearsing the role just in case I do get dubbed Zippy The Soecnda.
JDKJ: Me. I'm rehearsing the role just in case I do get dubbed Zippy The Soecnda.
Posted 11/20/09 at 04:59pm
DarkSaber: Wait, is that meant to be Zippy, me or you?
DarkSaber: Wait, is that meant to be Zippy, me or you?
Posted 11/20/09 at 04:49pm
JDKJ: I cud caer lez. =^^= *wakes up in mid-afternoon after staying up until 3:00AM soldering resistors on to circuit boards, stumbles around in formerly white but now grey underwear, while simultaneously scratching groin with vigor and making coffee*
JDKJ: I cud caer lez. =^^= *wakes up in mid-afternoon after staying up until 3:00AM soldering resistors on to circuit boards, stumbles around in formerly white but now grey underwear, while simultaneously scratching groin with vigor and making coffee*
Posted 11/20/09 at 04:46pm
DarkSaber: knell? Don't you mean Neil? Anymore of tht and I'll dub thee Zippy The Soecnda
DarkSaber: knell? Don't you mean Neil? Anymore of tht and I'll dub thee Zippy The Soecnda
Posted 11/20/09 at 04:44pm
JDKJ: Now, now, Saber. Don't be salty. You weren't the first one to knell and bob and you ain't gonna be the last one, either.
JDKJ: Now, now, Saber. Don't be salty. You weren't the first one to knell and bob and you ain't gonna be the last one, either.
Posted 11/20/09 at 04:42pm
DarkSaber: JD's feeling rather desperate it seems.
DarkSaber: JD's feeling rather desperate it seems.
Posted 11/20/09 at 04:33pm
JDKJ: C'mon, Zip. You already touch yourself way too much. Spread the love. Before you go blind.
JDKJ: C'mon, Zip. You already touch yourself way too much. Spread the love. Before you go blind.
Posted 11/20/09 at 04:27pm
ZippyDSMlee: JD:No and I ain't touching any part of you or your friends!! :P
ZippyDSMlee: JD:No and I ain't touching any part of you or your friends!! :P
Posted 11/20/09 at 04:25pm
JDKJ: @Zip: You know Lik Mitaint?
JDKJ: @Zip: You know Lik Mitaint?
Posted 11/20/09 at 04:18pm
ZippyDSMlee: neill and bob,oldest giveing head joke and most lamest...
ZippyDSMlee: neill and bob,oldest giveing head joke and most lamest...
Posted 11/20/09 at 04:18pm
JDKJ: But thanks for the memory. MIB's a classic. *sings* "Here come the Men in Black. Galaxy defenders. Here come the Men in Black. They won't let you remember."
JDKJ: But thanks for the memory. MIB's a classic. *sings* "Here come the Men in Black. Galaxy defenders. Here come the Men in Black. They won't let you remember."
Posted 11/20/09 at 04:18pm
ZippyDSMlee: JD:for the record I told you you can suck your own dck.
ZippyDSMlee: JD:for the record I told you you can suck your own dck.
Posted 11/20/09 at 04:07pm
JDKJ: Naw, man. That's Mueedeegiaap and Bob. And you can stop bobbing. I got Zippy bobbing now, too.
JDKJ: Naw, man. That's Mueedeegiaap and Bob. And you can stop bobbing. I got Zippy bobbing now, too.
Posted 11/20/09 at 03:56pm
DarkSaber: OH I get it now! It's Men In Black quote! The twins that run the comm centre in HQ.
DarkSaber: OH I get it now! It's Men In Black quote! The twins that run the comm centre in HQ.
Posted 11/20/09 at 03:49pm
JDKJ: I'd like to introduce you to them. First, Neil. Then, Bob.
JDKJ: I'd like to introduce you to them. First, Neil. Then, Bob.
Posted 11/20/09 at 03:47pm
ZippyDSMlee: JD:I know they are intimate friends of yours...
ZippyDSMlee: JD:I know they are intimate friends of yours...
Posted 11/20/09 at 03:44pm
JDKJ: @Zip: You know Neil and Bob?
JDKJ: @Zip: You know Neil and Bob?
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Game Politics and Game Politics logo are trademarks of the ECA.
Game Politics and Game Politics logo are trademarks of the ECA.
Comments
So it begins...
Personally I can't wait :) I hope Jack gets a surprise when he watches this as well. I have no doubt that he is going to get picked apart by Penn. I wonder though if Penn is going to address that half of what Jack says are outright fabrications....
"THE VIDEO YOU ARE TRYING TO WATCH CANNOT BE VIEWED FROM YOUR CURRENT COUNTRY OR LOCATION."
Ahh the impending death of youtube (and others but I'm mostly annoyed with youtube) as a site worth visiting
Anyone know a reliable way to circumvent crap like this?
Proxies.
When I used them correctly, I was able to watch content on the BBC Doctor Who website. Without them, I get a similar message.
Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000
Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl
Hehe, I just tried one to look at this story page, now I get "THE VIDEO YOU ARE TRYING TO WATCH IS CURRENTLY UNAVAILABLE. PLEASE CHECK BACK SOON."
Oh well, they don't want me to see it legally...
I've never heard of this Cooney person either, but he proved himself to be a moron and he didn't need Penn & Teller's help for that.
Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.
I found something but the information is iffy at best. Apparently there is a webpage "created by him" but it looks like it was made with a cheap web editor and there is a picture of a guy with an alien suit that kinda ressembles him physically. Either P&T BS created him or this guy is a bigger whack job that JT.
This is the first I heard of them inventing opponents, where have they done that?
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Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.
There are a couple of people who believe that the program plants a couple of actors for some sort of comedy relief. I personaly don't believe this since they have never put any disclaimer reguarding this.
Seems unlikely. Not impossible (I'm not saying Penn Jillette would necessarily be above it), but it just seems like the issues they cover do lend themselves to having enough crazies that making up extra ones wouldn't really be necessary. :)
The only problem with Penn & Teller's Bullshit is that it doesn't ever rise to the level of rational argument. Many times they are right, but what's the profit for the viewer if there's no convincing argument made for the hosts' point of view? This show basically just calls people names. As such, Penn and Teller are no less foolish than the people who they often choose to insult.
If you liked watching bullies beat up defenceless kids on the school playground, Bullshit is probably your cup of tea. Personally, I'd prefer to see people who ascribe to foolish notions have their ideas challenged rationally. Calling them names just makes them into victims - and such folks should not be made to look sympathetic.
Penn and Teller's Bullshit wastes everyone's time. What could be an edifying show instead ends up being just another mindless rant.
1. Because part of the show is devoted to comedy
2. Because they only have about 27 minutes to actually show their stuff, not leaving enough time for rational debate.
3. Because if they were to call people swindlers, liars and the like without fully explaining the details behind their position, they could be in a prime position for being sued- the first episode devoted 2 minutes to explaining that calling using words like "bullshit" or "motherfucker", while offensive, is also legally safe as a means for avoiding slander lawsuits.
4. Because they have experts talk for them to enlighten people to the other side of the issue, who are more eloquent and have the research to back up their claims.
5. Because there are many people who can take a joke, laugh, and think afterwards on the issue at length.
"Because part of the show is devoted to comedy"
The Daily Show is devoted to comedy, but it manages to present a logical argument in simple, ironic way.
Being a comedian is no excuse for incompetence.
I've seen an episode of bullshit (the one over PETA) and it was pretty informing, and it helped solidify why I hated PETA so much.
Watch the Gun Control episode, or Food. And laugh. The human race USUALLY has a sense of humor.
It doesn't matter whether they call people swindlers, liars or motherfuckers - it's still an ad hominem attack, and it is NOT CONVINCING to anyone with more than half a brain. Actually that's an insult to anyone with only half a brain, as even people with half a brain can see an ad hominem attack for what it is.
If Penn and Teller have insight, then they should use techniques that illustrate the rightness of their argument, rather than undermining it.
As someone else said, John Stewart is much better at combining humour with convincing arguments - and he doesn't have to resort to underhand methods to do it.
Actually watch the episode on videogames (youtube has it right now in 3 parts) and make sure to watch the VERY END where they show the 9 year old gamer's reaction to firing a real gun.
What was that about techniques and convincing logical arguements?
Have you ever actually bothered to watch the show? They have experts from both sides of the subject on each show. That's what they're there for, to provide the rational support for their overall claim (that the topic of the day is bullshit).
Also, it's hilarious that anyone would point to the Daily Show (which is AWESOME, I'm not saying it's anything but) as being somehow better than P&T BS at providing rationale to support its position.
I've seen lots of rational arguments made on the show, and for the most part they usually only bring out the heavy insults after they've shown them to be fools, or liars, etc.
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Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.
My point is that they undermine any arguments they make by their frequent resort to ad hominem attack. When they use sophistry to make their point, then they're basically admitting to a weak argument or a lack of intellect. This is tragic when they're on the right side of an argument, because it makes their whole argument seem frivolous.
I watched the videogame episode, but it suffered from the same problems that made me quit watching. I'd prefer to see them mount a devastating argument, something which they fail to do EVERY SINGLE SHOW. Heck, the videogame episode was a perfect opportunity - and for a change they did mount a coherent (though not devastating) argument. Maybe they've become a little more serious in the couple of seasons since I stopped watching their show.
But the whole 'kid with a gun' thing was just lame - it didn't prove anything other than that the kid is a sensitive child - which you could tell in his first minute on air. How the kid was allowed to fire a weapon with the butt next to his cheek and not held into his shoulder is a mystery to me - the safety officer simply did not do his job. Heck, no wonder the kid was crying - he probably either bruised his shoulder or tore open the inside of his mouth. He's lucky he didn't lose a tooth or break his collarbone.
Many times in the show they simply ridiculed their opponents - that is not a way to convince anyone of anything, and like I said, it's more likely to generate sympathy for the victims of their bullying tactics.
They have a show, which means they have all the power. They can edit clips any way they like to make people seem more or less sympathetic. But a good show avoids such self-debasing trickery. I just wish Penn and Teller would quit turning their show into a deceptive TV magic act and instead focus on the merits of the issues they cover.
I'm not asking Penn and Teller to stop being humorous. I'm just asking that they quit being assholes who spout bullshit.
Ad hominem is not simply insulting someone it's saying that their argument lacks credibility (or is in some way wrong) due to some flaw in their person.
Calling you an asshole is not ad hominem, saying that you're an asshole therefore your argument loses some (or all) credibility IS ad hominem (by the way I don't think you're an asshole that's just an example).
Also those experiments have been a part of the show since season 1 and they've pointed out they're unscientific at least a dozen times.
I know what you mean though, I wish they would dwelve into more science or general arguments (I'm really disappointed that they didn't freaking mention that circuit courts have rejected the laws Thompson was talking about every time due to lack of evidence of harm caused by video games) and do less ridiculing no matter how funny I think it is. This is why I like the episodes that dwelve into subject matter that more people seriously belivie other than nuts, like recycling, in those they tend to rely less on insults and more genral bashing (which is why I'm looking forward to lie detectors).
Oh and about that gun, the kid didn't wince or grab his face in pain after shooting it, which I think lends credence to the idea that it was emotional shock.
On a related note when did you stop watching and what episodes do you like?
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Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.
"Ad hominem is not simply insulting someone it's saying that their argument lacks credibility (or is in some way wrong) due to some flaw in their person."
But that IS what they're saying.
As for the kid not wincing or grabbing his face, didn't you notice how he's tonguing his cheek right after he takes the shot? That's exactly what people do when they get hit hard in the mouth, which is what seemed to happen to him.
"When they use sophistry to make their point, then they're basically admitting to a weak argument or a lack of intellect."
Except they don't do that. They point out through logical means why the person is wrong, then they lay on the heavy insults. I again question if you've ever even bothered to watch the show.
Dear Bennett Beeny,
Pretty much your entire post is wrong.
Thank you. ^^
Just the sort of post I'd expect from a fan of such a vacuous show. 'Short on rational argument' is an understatement.
Hey I have an example for a person running around hitting people with a stick to make them healthy. Its called the medic in Team Fortress for Quake guess he never played that game. Last time I check they run around and hit their team mates with an axe(stick) to heal them; granted they also can own you with a nail gun and give you a disease with the stick if you are a bad guy(damn blue team).
Ufortunately I don't have Showtime. Is there another way to see this? Between this show and True Blood, I wish I had this channel.
Unless it shows up on YouTube or Hulu(Hulu has the obesity episode), it will be hard to find.
Oh, and True Blood is on HBO, not Showtime.
Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.
Well..you do have the internet. I'm sure some quick searching will give you want you want.
Trevor Gray ganjookie@yahoo.com
Well the last two episodes of the season were up on youtube within days, this one will probably be too, although I'd hurry if I were you, they sometimes have nudity on the show and youtube doesn't allow nudity in their videos.
Oh and showtime put up the last episode (Astrology) for free on the site, although they do censor it there.
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Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.
New episode of Burn Notice at 9, Bullshit at 10.
Sounds like a good night for TV.
I wish I had showtime but wait, The PS video store has Showtime shows, I hope they can put up Penn & Teller on there, that would be intresting if I had some money for my PSN I would like to download this.
I don't have Showtime either. I will have to wait for someeone to post it on You Tube, and I'm sure someone will.
- Warren
My money is on JT flipping out and releasing vitrolic emails over this episode, claiming he was mislead about the adenda of the show.
And then they can show the contracts he was likely asked to sign and his case will be screwed, liek like EVERY court case he ever "started" or latched onto.
And then, there´s this A55HOLE...
I beg somebody post this episode on Youtube. I don´t want to wait like a year to watch this in Mexico cable.
The cynical side of videogames (spanish only): http://thelostlevel.blogspot.com/ My DeviantArt Page (aka DeviantCensorship): http://www.darkknightstrikes.deviantart.com/
Don;t worry it'll be on youtube one way or another.
http://www.magicinkgaming.com/
The last two episodes of season 7 were up within days, so this one will probably be there too.
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Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.
"In episode 703, the duo debunks the theory of politicians and other alarmists that playing video games leads to teen violence by handing over a real semiautomatic weapon to a nine-year-old video game player to see if he becomes a human killing machine."
That's a bullshit idea. (Maybe they're being ironic?)
If you want to convince anyone, instead of grandstanding on a soapbox, all you have to do show them people like Tycho and Gabe, Wil Wheaton, Felicia Day, the cast of LoadingReadyRun, and other amazing creative people who play and enjoy videogames.
You show people the good that comes out of gaming, from the social aspect of boardgames, guilds and conventions, to the money raised for Child's Play, and how it affects people. Show gamers who are now parents themselves, and how they incorporate gaming as a positive influence on their children.
But hey, it's a business, right? You gotta get ratings. So let's go for sensationalist, bitter vitriol that accomplishes nothing.
I think it´s just a way to make a stand against videogames-haters by making mock of their points. Bullshit is not quite fair and balanced, but at least they have people from both sides. They still have Cherry Olson, Grand Theft Childhood author.
The cynical side of videogames (spanish only): http://thelostlevel.blogspot.com/ My DeviantArt Page (aka DeviantCensorship): http://www.darkknightstrikes.deviantart.com/
So what's your point? How many times it has been shown that good things a video game can bring and how many good and honest people are around in the industry? You and I know this among other people who are well informed about the industry but still we have people berrating the industry. I guess this time they're going to show people how utterly ridiculous the arguments of Anti-video game fanatics can be. Heck the promo clip above pretty much sums up the sheer stupidity of some of these people.
Lucky me I have showtime free for a year and that includes being able to watch this episode, although it will expire on me before the season ends which is a shame because I like that show. I guess I'll have to see the Vatican episode on youtube.
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Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.
I can't believe this guy is real, he has to be a character created for the show. Please tell me there aren't really people stupid enough to believe that school shootings never happened prior to the invention of video games.
He is real, with a website to boot: http://www.fpsdanger.com/
He looks somewhat like a low-level kook and his site seems to be about 10 years old with minimal updating.
I wonder whatever happened to Ronnie Lamm- a woman who predicted the downfall of civilization via videogames back in the 80's.
I would say Bullshit's aiming way too low if it's featuring him but I can't think of any major game critics other than Jack, and they all ready have him on there (well ok I can name a couple others but most of them don't focus entirely on games).
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Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.
The stuff Penn and Teller did on this guy is hillarious. He is against fake guns, but wholly endorses real guns (ie he likes some of the stuff that really should be illegal like a combat shotgun etc).
Foaming at the mouth
How much crime is actually committed with combat shotguns? Probably not much especially when compared to handguns and the like (hell I'd wager more crime is done with knives).
Just to let you know in season 3 they did an episode trashing gun control.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCXtfR0_roE (1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtqufzEFCzw (2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoIKlO20RqM (3)
Yeah youtube has to split it up into 3 parts.
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Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.
My guess he's not too familiar with the food pyramid either. Seriously a salad and a few min on a treadmill would do you good, fat ***.
Grrr I dont have cable
XD
Few things are more humiliating than being such an iditic douche that people think you're a fictional character created specifically to evoke laughter.
Can't wait to see what they did to Jack.
We'll have to find out
Watching JT on GP is just like watching an episode of Jerry springer only as funny as the fights
Oh well that's all well and good IF I HAD SHOWTIME
Don't worry they make DVDs of it, although this season ends in late August so it may be a while.
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Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.
Probably won't be until the first part of 2010 for the DVD's since Season 6(uncensored) came out May 12th.
Geaux Saints, Geaux Tigers, Geaux Hornets, Jack Thompson can geaux chase a chupacabra.
I hate having to defend Penn & Teller on this one guys. The click shown here, is only part of the entire showing. Rather then picking apart the 'what ifs' of the actual show, you be patient and wait. Watch the entire episode and then make a more informed decision.
Based solely on the click above (courtesy of GP), anyone can made an arguement for anything, to argue anything, using the 'fire triangle'.
A) Republicans are idiots.
B) Republicans lied to the USA (Irag War, Financial conditions, FDA, violation of the US Constituion, etc)
C) Barack Obama was hated by conservatives/Republicans for being intelligent, educated, wise, patient, and looking down the road to a better USA, then what GWB, GHWB, or RR, could do.
A+B+C= Democrats Win the President's seat, the House & Senate of Congrass and most of the chairs in the Supreme Count.
See, I just used the 'fire triangle' to show total BS.
After watching that all I can say and will continue to say is that Jack is pure unmitigated evil. The kid firing the AR-15 and being overcome with emotion was really powerful. And yet, I'm sure he'll creep back in here in the coming days and scream how he was slandered and didn't know what he was getting into or worse yet how the kid was faking tears. Truly an evil man.
Well Penn and teller knocked JT on his sorry ass coupled with Humiliation(5 stars for Epic failness and Utter Humilation)
Watching JT on GP is just like watching an episode of Jerry springer only as funny as the fights
I fully agree. I've been saying for a while that they really do need to do what Penn and Teller did in this show. Now that they did it though, I kinda wish they hadn't because I feel bad for that kid. He wasn't a brain washed killer, he wasn't some sociopath waiting to snap, he wasn't even a bad kid; he was just a 9 year old kid that got to fire a gun, and the end result was it scared him really badly.
Anyone who has delt with kids know that they may talk tough about things, talk about how they want to beat someone up, how bad-ass they think they are, or how macho they act know that the first time a kid gets into a first fight almost always results in the kid crying because they know right from wrong and know that what they did is wrong.
He was a brave kid; but if it were me at that age I wouldn't have even gotten close enough to fire off the first round. Guns scared the crap out of me then, and scare me now even more so because I have a good aim and a that I have realized once you pull that trigger you can't undo what happens afterwards.
If anything, I think it was good that his mom was there and the former Marine who was very supportive about all of this was such a nice guy. I think they need to show more of what happened afterwards because it does drive the nail home so well. This is who you call a future killer Jack, a scare kid who was frightened by firing one round from a real gun.
I'm also thankful for the very somber lesson Penn and Teller made at the end about there being more juvenille injuries and deaths because of football than games and how that seems acceptable because football in the sport of choice to watch in the US and how every parents is proud that their kid is slamming as hard as the can into some other kid with the mindset that they are going to hurt the other person.
What a twisted world we live in for real violence to be ok and fake violence to be demonized.
"The Good, the Bad, and the Videogame" Reviews on the best, worst, and controversial issues of Videogames. gryphonosiris.blogspot.com/
That for me was the best part of the show. It reminds me of what someone wrote in a book that said modern culture is either more sophisticated than it was in the days of Lucy or at the very least that it isn't making people stupider (it was called everything bad is good for you).
Anyway he proposed a situation identical to Penn and Teller's only replace football with books.
He then gave a sample of someone lambasting the new evil that was books saying they're solitary and encourage people to isolate themselves from their friends whereas video games give you the opportunity to play with others. He said more but I don't have the book with me.
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Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.
I had mentioned before that I had been allowed to fire guns before I was this kid's age. To be fair, I wasn't handed a fucking cannon to fire. The AR-15 is some serious business and was nearly as big as the kid (I'd love to have one of those). Also, the instructor should have helped him get the butt of the gun into his shoulder better so it wouldn't kick and hit him in the face. I definitely felt bad for that kid, but it proved the point -- games do NOT teach you how to fire a gun (much less fire a gun accurately since he completely missed the target) and do NOT turn you into a mass murdering monster.
Also, the best part of the episode was Teller taking a chainsaw to the fire triangle to cut away the fallacies of it (as Penn talked about other school violence) and being left only with "Troubled" as the one common link between school shootings. That pretty much summed it up.
My first thought was also "that kid's going to get hit upside the face with the butt of that gun."
I'm surprised the gun expert didn't tell him how to properly hold the gun.
I don't remember how young I was when I first fired a gun but it was probably earlier than that. I remember being told it would kick but not having any idea how much it would.
http://www.popularculturegaming.com
The Marine didn't inform him how to fire the weapon properly because they were testing the theory that FPS games "teach" you how to properly use a real-life weapon. If he taught the child how to use the weapon properly, it would have messed up the test.
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Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.
Nevertheless, from a safety standpoint, the marine had a duty to make the kid safe. If they wanted to show how he wasn't pre-trained to kill, they should have shown the marine stepping in to teach him how to hold the rifle properly. That kid could have lost teeth or broken his collarbone - and if he had, you can bet that the mother would have sued the show and won a settlement.
You seem to be obsessed with this idea that people here are missing the point, but YOU are missing the point. The idea was that according to the anti-gaming crowd, this kid should have known how to fire that gun properly and accurately. Safety was not the point. But then again, firing a gun is never safe, right?
Neither is playing football.
"I'm surprised the gun expert didn't tell him how to properly hold the gun."
Ah, but if JT & Friends are right (try not to laugh too hard at that concept) then shouldn't he already know how to hold a gun? After all, he's spent all this time playing "murder simulators"...
EDIT: Stupid ninjas...
I guess a good summary would be-
You can't hit 'A' to reload, you can't pull 'Left Trigger' to look down the sights, and kids know this- that's why they play. They know what killing is, and they don't WANT to kill- they just want to have fun.
a .223 is not "a fucking cannon" the ar 15, m 16 is one of the weakest military weapons extant. It fully conforms to the geneva convention as a humane weapon, and that's about it. Also the "chainsaw" wasnt.
Trust is the sound of death.
Ok I haven't seen the episode but you act like JT is some breed of pure evil, as if he was Iago from Othello.
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Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.
He leeches onto school shootings and the deaths of others to push an agenda. Sounds pretty evil to me.
I wasn't sure if it was fear or pain. Did you see how he was holding that gun, and how it kicked back into his shoulder when he fired it? I thought that looked like it hurt. That by itself seems like evidence enough that a kid raised on FPS titles couldn't handle a real gun. They'd injure themselves trying to shoot the dumb thing.
Anyone else disappointed that they didn't even mention Thompson being disbarred, and didn't have him on too much?
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Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.
It wouldn't have mattered either way because they saw him for the liar that he was.
I believe the episode (at least the JT stuff) was filmed last summer, before he was disbarred. Not that that would stop them from mentioning it if they wanted to.
Andrew Eisen
He was disbarred a couple weeks after they filmed the interview with him and according to Thompson they brought up his potential disbarrment in the interview.
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Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.
Saw the episode and spotted a 360 controller on the couch in JT's place. The best thing about the episeode was showing me the awesome gore in this military shooting game. I think it must be Mrothers in Arms, but I am going to find out for sure and buy it. The game looked fucking awesome!
Or how about that PS3 in his entertainment stand?
The episode itself was great, the points about football and the fact that there was school shootings years before pong. Also, no brain scan in the world will have more power than the last scene with that poor kid crying at the end. I hope JT feels like a heel for suggesting the kid could be brainwashed and become school shooter.
"It could have been, should have been worse than you would ever know"
As far as the PS3 is concerned, he probably just bought it for the Blu-Ray player. I mean, we all know the PS3 sucks donkey balls for anything else anyway.
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Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.
Them's fighting words.
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Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.
Sadly that was pretty lame. No discussion of Jacko's disbarment. No mention that youth crime stats have been going down ever since the playstation's introduction. They let Jacko get away with bringing up the Indiana University study when Jacko knows that it doesn't show what he claims it does. I and others have been telling Jacko that it doesn't say what he says it does since at least 2006 and he still keeps getting away with telling the same lie. http://gamepolitics.livejournal.com/271638.html?thread=22083094#t2208309...
http://www.popularculturegaming.com
Actually, you're mistaken. They did mention that teen crime has diminished dramatically since the early 90's, when gaming was arguably at it's peak. The Playstation doesn't really matter specifically.
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Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.
I guess i missed that. I was playing a game while watching it! ;-)
Of course the Playstation has nothing to do with the crime statistics but it does serve as a counter to the people who say that there is a correllation.
http://www.popularculturegaming.com
How can you possibly say that gaming was at its peak in the early 90s? It's more popular now than it's ever been.
Maybe you meant on a PC? But I'm not even sure about that.
Saying that Jack Thompson is impotent is an insult to impotent men everywhere. They've got a whole assortment of drugs that can cure their condition; Jack, however...
They brought up how there had been worse massacres at schools 47 years before Pong was invented in they Cooney segment.
They even brought up the Indiana study. Not in name persay, but in discussion of MRI and Catscans and how, just because a part of the brain "lights up" it doesn't mean anything. I found the ending a little touching though. They apologized to the little boy who tried out the gun, and showed him crying against his mom's chest. Guess all those war games didn't train him properly.
Foaming at the mouth
I did notice the mri stuff (I did kind of zone out a bit though at that point)
I brought up the IU study not really to comment on the validity of the study itself but to point out that Jacko blatantly lied about what the study said and they let him get away with it.
http://www.popularculturegaming.com
For everyone talking about how JT wasn't slammed enough on this? You're kinda missing the point, folks. It wasn't an anti-JT show, it was intended to educate people, in a humoros, thirty minute format, that video games aren't the scourge of society people make him out to be.
Also, anyone expecting that Penn and Teller would have fixed everything with their show are delusional. Just as the people who believe that since they weren't detailed enough, their arguments lack value.
The final image of the show was intensely powerful. And that, my friends, is what you should point to the next time that someone (reputable, mind, not JT) turns to you and says that your favorite passtime is evil.