Card Check Controversy Sparks Game, Exchange of Insults

GameCulture reports on Card Checked, a Flash game created by Libertarian Grover Norquist and Americans for Tax Relief.

When we last saw Norquist on the pages of GamePolitics he was speaking out in opposition to video game legislation in Utah. This time around, his game – set in a tattoo parlor – is meant to rally opposition to the Employee Free Choice Act. GameCulture explains:

Card Check [is a] a majority sign-up policy that makes it easier for unions to get employer recognition. If at least 50% of employees sign a card authorizing representation, secret ballots can be bypassed. ATR says that "in the game, the player is a tattoo artist who faces several attempts by union organizers to get you to sign the card, including visiting you at home, vandalizing your car, threatening your cat, and even offering you marijuana."

As it turns out, labor leader Eddie Vale of the AFL-CIO took offense not only to the game’s portrayal of union organizers as thugs, but to its game play as well:

As anyone who actually grew up playing Atari or Nintendo will know, calling this a video game is as accurate as their lies about the Employee Free Choice Act…

Norquist minion Brian Johnson wasted no time in firing back at Vale:

I’m not sure that a 1930s throwback like the AFL-CIO should be giving advice about what’s cool. We’re not sure what video games have been cranked out this year by the international brotherhood of video game programmers, but we’d be happy to stack our game up to any union-made product any day.

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70 comments

  1. Conster says:

    I’ve got only one thing to say to this: wow. In the Netherlands, we have the "poldermodel", and as a result, our union-company conflicts are pretty tame. Also, the "collective worker’s agreement" complement, not overwrites, the individual one. Compared to France, where truck drivers block all the highways whenever they’re angry at something (I swear, I’m a gun permit and a meltdown away from shooting the fuckers), we have it easy.

  2. illspirit says:

    Norquist minion

    I dunno whether this is an example of bias or simply grabbing a random descriptor out of a hat, but the idea of libertarian minions paints an amusingly ironic mental picture.

    Now it only we had flying monkeys too..

  3. Zerodash says:

    I have yet to see a compelling argument how a non-secret ballot is somehow a GOOD thing. 

    Oh, and when you really get down to it (before you even begin to consider the corruption angle), Unions are basically legal Monopolies.  People seem to ignore that because it isn’t politically correct to critisize them.

  4. cppcrusader says:

    "international brotherhood of video game programmers, but we’d be happy to stack our game up to any union-made product any day"

    So, they’re happy to stack their game up against nothing at all?

  5. ZenAndNow says:

    Capitalists want peace. You’d never hear a dedicated hippy say it, but it’s true. War is bad for the vast majority of business, except for the arms trade, and even then only minor wars work for them, as major wars result in them being superceded by the state taking over things to more readily mobilize supplies for their armed forces.

  6. MrKlorox says:

    Yeah the game is actually shit though. And full of negative stereotypes and blatant propaganda.

    Fuck those apparently ‘conformist’ hippies and ignore the oxymoron! Who wants peace anyways?

  7. F__ked up says:

    I have. Here is the definition for you since you havent.

    1. the greater part or number; the number larger than half the total (opposed to minority ): the majority of the population.
    2. a number of voters or votes, jurors, or others in agreement, constituting more than half of the total number.
    3. the amount by which the greater number, as of votes, surpasses the remainder (distinguished from plurality ).
    4. the party or faction with the majority vote: The Democratic party is the majority.
    5. the state or time of being of full legal age: to attain one’s majority.

    6.

    the military rank or office of a major.

     

    The way the Majority has been discussed refers to number 3. Plurality and Majority are often used interchangeably espcially since the "obsolete" definition of Majority is the quality or state of being greater.

    obsolete : the quality or state of being greater

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/majority

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/majority

     


    I am a critical thinker not a dumb ass inbred conservative or a jackass liberal

    Pedophiles are the new Nazi / Communist. Labeling someone a Pedophile will get them blacklisted even though there is no evidence.

    Murder is not a crime when done in self defense, a time of war, or when done by court order (death penalty). People cry murder when fetus are aborted. How about when the mother could die? The mother is 13 years old? The mother was raped? The child is a product of incest? Is foster care really the best answer for children who’s parents cant take of them? How many children actually end up in foster care when their parents are dead beats?

    A 14 year old is child when they have sex but is an adult when they commit murder?

  8. jedidethfreak says:

    Read a dictionary.  A majority is any percentage OVER 50%.

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  9. F__ked up says:

    The Majority does not necessarily mean 51%. The majority just needs have the higher percentage compared to the other choices.

    33% can be a majority if it is greater than the other options.

    For example

    A) 33%

    B) 29%

    C) 23%

    D) 15%

    But what American Democracy has come down to has been "Majority Rule" where your choices are limited to a binary decision of either A or B where 51% is the majority 


    I am a critical thinker not a dumb ass inbred conservative or a jackass liberal

    Pedophiles are the new Nazi / Communist. Labeling someone a Pedophile will get them blacklisted even though there is no evidence.

    Murder is not a crime when done in self defense, a time of war, or when done by court order (death penalty). People cry murder when fetus are aborted. How about when the mother could die? The mother is 13 years old? The mother was raped? The child is a product of incest? Is foster care really the best answer for children who’s parents cant take of them? How many children actually end up in foster care when their parents are dead beats?

    A 14 year old is child when they have sex but is an adult when they commit murder?

  10. Dragoon1376 says:

    They’re still looking for Jimmy Hoffa’s body, right?

    First secure an independent income, then practice virtue. -Greek Proverb

  11. PHOENIXZERO says:

    Yup, because there aren’t nor has there ever been any mafia ties to unions! <_< >_>


  12. jedidethfreak says:

    But the people may not want it unionized, and when the union finds out who doesn’t want it, the harrasment commences.

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  13. Shahab says:

    No union is going to come an harass you once the shop is unionized, idiot. Even if they were evil, mafiosa led criminal orginaztions as you seem to think, once the shop is unionized they stop campaigning.

    You have been so co-opted by the right-wing political agenda in this country it is laughable.

  14. jedidethfreak says:

    Because elections require a majority.  33% is not 51%.

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  15. Austin_Lewis says:

    It retains anonymity until 50% sign for representation.  Then all anonymity can be done away with, which means if you decide you don’t like the deal the union’s offering you, they will find you and they WILL harass you, or worse.

  16. Bennett Beeny says:

    As I understand it, it’s NOT removing anonymity.  As I’ve posted above, it retains anonymity.  But it requires details of those who WANT the representation.  That’s hardly the undemocratic process that it’s being mischaracterized as.  As usual, this ‘undemocratic’ label is just an easy way for the bill’s detractors to mislead those who haven’t read the bill.  And sadly, there are a lot of people who don’t read such things.

  17. Bennett Beeny says:

    According to Wikipedia:

    "If enacted, the Employee Free Choice Act would amend the currently existing procedure to require the NLRB to certify the union as the bargaining representative without directing an election if a majority of employees signed cards.The proposed legislation would still require a secret-ballot election when at least 30% of employees petition for an election."

    Doesn’t sound as bad as it’s being made out by the critics – at least not to me.  It’s certainly not the undemocratic Big Brother style law that it’s being painted as by its detractors

    Wikipedia goes on to say:

    "To find out how effective the current NLRB system actually is — in other words, how well it reflects workers’ wishes to organize into unions and bargain contracts with management — MIT Sloan School of Management professor Thomas A. Kochan and MIT Ph.D. student John Paul Ferguson used federal data to track the progress of more than 22,000 union organizing drives between 1999 and 2005. They found that "only one in five cases that filed an [NLRB] election petition ultimately reached a first contract [between workers and management]," which they reported in a Boston Globe article. "This is despite all the cases already having shown substantial and likely majority support for representation."

    They criticized the current system by asking, "How can anyone who thinks elections are a bulwark of democracy support a system in which a third of those interested in an election never get to hold one? Why would anyone put faith in a process that offers them a 1-in-5 chance of success?" Kochan and Ferguson thus called for passage of the Employee Free Choice Act along with other reforms."

     

  18. GoodRobotUs says:

    I’m not passing judgement on the law itself, just passing on my observations of what other people have posted, I don’t work in the US, so I’m really not aware of the current situation with regards to Unions.

    My own personal feelings is that anything that removes the right of anonymity from a ballot such as this has dangerous undertones, but that’s purely an outside view.

  19. jedidethfreak says:

    By telling the names, addresses and phone numbers of people who don’t want to organize?  That does nothing but bully people into organizing.  Last time I checked, bullying wasn’t the same as correcting an imbalance.

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  20. jedidethfreak says:

    I don’t think that unions should be disbanded altogether, but I do believe in calling out the corruption (I’m looking at you, UAW, IBEW, SEIU and the AFL-CIO).  However, just like abortion, unions are so polarizing in America that we can’t even call a spade a spade anymore.  Actually take the time to read the proposed Card Check law.  It says that employees no longer have the right to a secret ballot.  How is that a good thing?

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  21. GoodRobotUs says:

    Indeed, the concept of a Union is not a bad one at all, but like all things, they are prone to rot, and sometimes need a severe pruning.

    I think the problem is not so much the concept of Unions, but of this particular law, whilst not all Unions are corrupt, this law would actually be a weapon in the hands of those that are, whilst only having limited impact on those that are not.

  22. jedidethfreak says:

    Yes.  Unions are broken in this country.  The reps will solicit workers at their place of business (which is against the law) to convince people to organize.  If they get your name and address or number, they will harrass you until you join them or sue for harrassment.  If you join, you have to pay them out of your paycheck in dues, and the ammount you pay for health care and dental is increased, sometimes by ten-fold.  If you are out of work, you still have to pay your dues, even though they don’t do anything to help you regain employment.  If your union strikes, even without your approval, you are out of a job and your family starves.  If you break the strike line, you will be physically assaulted and verbally harrassed, and could lose your job after the strike ends.  On top of this, with the current administration in power, Unions get more money from a bankrupt company – even if they don’t own any stock, and even if they were a partial cause of the bankruptcy – than the people who actually invested money in the company, which is outright illegal.

    So, yeah, unions are broken.

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  23. Bennett Beeny says:

    I guess people are quick to buy into the corporate rhetoric.  And memories are short, it seems.  No one seems to remember that when my grandfather was a young man, workers who went on strike were machine-gunned, and the people who ordered the shooting were supported by government.  That’s the sort of thing that happens without strong unions.

    Sure, SOME unions are corrupt.  Some corporations are corrupt too.  That doesn’t mean we should do away with these beneficial institutions altogether.

  24. Bennett Beeny says:

    Have you read the law?  Somehow I think it’s getting a bad rap.

    I’ve been a member of one union or another since about 1979.  I’ve never been called to go on strike, nor have I felt the need to strike.  And I’m a member of the IWW, so hardly one of the more non-militant unions.

    The point is, today’s unions tend to be a lot weaker than they were in the 1970s.  That is not a good thing.  The Employee Free Choice Act goes some way to redressing the imbalance.

  25. Lou says:

    Toyota workers are also unionized but they are under a different union not the UAW. In fact most if not all auto workers are unionized. Thing is that foreign auto makers kept the UAW away cause they’re not dumb.

    Right now workers under the UAW took a big hit with the new agreement to keep GM and Chrysler going. My friend told me that most of his retirement perks are gone. Kinda sad but they had it coming.

  26. jedidethfreak says:

    That’s 28 dollars an hour AFTER benefits, taxes and union dues, whereas the Toyota people make that before everything.

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  27. Baruch_S says:

    Ugh, don’t even go into the Teacher’s Union. They do great stuff like make the NYC school district pay the teachers for sitting around playing games and knitting for years while they work on any complaints filed against them. Unions are a joke anymore, but I don’t think you’re going to convince Snipzor of that.

  28. Lou says:

    I have a friend who works at the GM plant in Texas and he is Unionized and he earns around 28 bucks an hour wich is close to the same amount of money the people at the Toyota plant makes. so your belief that the UAW people make more money than any other employee from other plants is shallow at best. Now they do have a crap load of benefits that other employess can just dream about wich are overkill in my eyes. And those "machines" you whine about are standard on all assembly plants to try to reduce defects based on Human error. A little something you can easly learn if you were not so poised to go on a witch hunt on the unions.

    I am not affiliated with any party and I am not a big fan of unions either specialy those who want to make a strike out of nothing. But that "evil" that conservatives and libertarians like to throw under the bus every chance they get have brought standards and safety guidelines to the general public. If it wasn’t for "some" of them everyone would be working under sub-standard conditions and god know what other things.

  29. GrimCW says:

    you deny then that the auto workers unions have gone on strike every other year? much to the major dissagreemant of pretty much ANY news outlet in the country here?

    hmm

    i know they didn’t earn no $75 an hour, but they earned much more than the average worker elsewhere and for doing what? punching holes and using a simple machine to do 2/3 of the work for them?

  30. Austin_Lewis says:

    Let’s add ALPA to the list, with their ‘wine and dine and sign’ mentality.

    And yeah, you leave the teamsters on that damn list.  Also, the UAW. Let’s add the teacher’s union too, which has, for YEARS, done its best to protect undereducated and underqualified teachers from being replaced by people with relevant degrees and experience.

  31. Snipzor says:

     No, Airlines have been slowly lost profits (As in, still gaining profits, but the profit has decreased) over the years due to a variety of issues. Lately dying because of gas prices, and recession. Well, American airlines are dying (Always the American ones, I wonder why). Plus striking is not a form of exploitation. If you actually believe that corporations can be exploitive, then you wouldn’t blame unions for striking for their benefits back. So you can take off every union from your list, except the Teamsters.

    Oh, and you did buy into the bullshit claim that auto workers make a ton of money. Afterall, you are still blaming the unions for "striking every other year for more pay." as if that statement doesn’t play into the bullshit myth.

  32. jedidethfreak says:

    Bullshit.  Airlines have been running at a loss since the 70s, so how does the current recession have anything to do with that?  Also, I never said that GM workers made 70 bucks an hour.  However, UAW workers made far more than anyone else building cars in the entire world, to the point that GM’s payroll was larger than any other segment of their expenses combined.  That is all UAW’s fault, due to them striking every other year for more pay.

    As far as corrupt unions in America, I give you the SEIU, the AFL-CIO, UAW, IBEW and the Teamsters, all off the top of my head.

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  33. Snipzor says:

     Yeah, you know that whole thing about GM workers being payed 70$/hour is horseshit and has been debunked. It’s this bullshit claim to try to blame all of America’s problems on unions and workers, and not on the exploitive actions by banks. The reasons American auto manufacturers and airlines don’t make money is because of the recession. GM didn’t make money because it sucked ass (Yes, I am opposed to the Auto Bailout).

    That aside, I don’t give a shit about unions, I’m more partial to independent unions with regulatory backing (Not control) from the government. The unions that act like mafias (You know, there are so many, you could name them /sarcasm) are run by mafias. The blue collar union in Quebec is run by the mafia, this has been proven, but that’s the only one.

  34. jedidethfreak says:

    You’re not retarded because you disagree with me, you’re retarded because of what you said.  You really think that Unions are the greatest things ever?  Being run by the Mafia, running themselves like the Mafia, members financing the payrolls for the Union heads, physically beating people who choose to work to support their families is all okay with you?  Then you are retarded.  You can disagree with me all you want, but if you don’t admit that these are bad things, then you are retarded.

    As to your last paragraph, I admitted that Unions gave us all of those things.  However, now that they have them, they need to fight for more in order to be useful.  That’s why airlines don’t make a profit and why GM and Chrysler both went bankrupt.

    Also, I’m not a Libertarian.  I’m an unalligned conservative.  Libertarians aren’t the only ones who have problems with Unions.

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  35. Snipzor says:

     "Do you work for the Obama administration, the AFL-CIO, or are you just completely retarded?"

    Ah yes, because I have a different opinion than you, that makes me retarded. Of course. I ask you, were the libertarian groups of America pushing to have employee protection laws emplaced? Or were they actively against it?

    When you say "most unions", you mean all. Otherwise, if you actually meant "Most", then you wouldn’t have gone on this pointless rant about how unions are exploitive. Though, really? Did unions help get people employee based medical coverage? Or was it always there? Your ideology is pointless. It’s dreaming of a society that never existed.

    EDIT: GRRR, damn typo.

  36. Erik says:

    Actually when unions were actually effective is when they did have mafia ties.  Now we have these spineless and useless groups which call themselves unions.  They are mostly there on behalf of the company to make it look like they are doing something for you by getting token gestures from the buisinesses they are supposed to be at odds with.  So the union pacifies the workers for the buisiness, and the workers have to pay for the "privelage" of being pacified.

    So the modern day equivalent of unions needs to crawl in a hole and die.  If we are going to work in sweat shops the last thing we need are some useless do nothing group taking $15 a week from our slave wages.

    -Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person’s fear of their own freedom-

  37. Austin_Lewis says:

    Unions do the same fucking things that OSHAA does now, except they charge more to the worker and act like they’re the damn mafia whenever you question them.

  38. jedidethfreak says:

    This is the exact same thing that caused GM and Chrysler to go under.  Now, UAW owns a majority share of both companies.  I’m sure that GM and Chrysler will be the best car companies again (yeah, right).

    Unions stopped being useful in America a long time ago, because what most unions fought for are now legally requried (overtime pay, sick leave, family medical leave).  All unions do now is bully the company to pay the members more money, which has to be paid to the higher-ups in the union in the form of dues and benefit payments.

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  39. Dragoon1376 says:

    No kidding.  I don’t see evolution being tied to this unless he’s making the accusation that if you’re anti-union you must also be a: Christian, creationist, scientifically ignorant, and a bigot.  Of course, I threw a couple of extras in there but I figured they were insinuated anyways.

    As for climate change, I believe that the whole approach is based on bad science which is seen in the growing number of dissenting scientists coming forward.  Something like 750 at last count in March.  So, anthropogenic climate change is not settled.

    Back to the topic: I do think that unions have outlived their usefulness since they continue to leech off industries.  If you’re doing a job that requires only a few weeks of training, you shouldn’t expect to make great pay just by virtue of the fact that the job market for your skills have swelled or easily replaceable.  You haven’t sunk years of schooling or training to learn how to work an assembly line. 

    What’s a greater travesty are unions in public sector jobs since they pretty much hold government services hostage and extract pay increases as they see fight.  Taxpayers are captive to the process and the government can continue to increase the burden across the board.

    First secure an independent income, then practice virtue. -Greek Proverb

  40. Eseell says:

    Actually, more like the employers would retaliate against the pro-union workers.

    Great, so card check is bad for employees in several unique and painful ways. Your post only reinforces the reasoning behind secret ballots.

    I won’t deny that labor unions have been and in some cases still are useful, but to deny that unions, especially the most powerful ones such as the Teamsters, UAW, AFL-CIO, etc., have a long history of corruption and intimidation tactics is willful ignorance.

  41. Rocketboy says:

    I really don’t understand how so many people have bought hook, line, and sinker the bullshit that unions are some evil organiztions that rip off the working man. 

    Maybe we’ve worked in places that were unionized.  Hell, I worked in a place that it was considered an  illegal action to remove the local union rep, who was suspended for a month for grabbing another guys crotch and making sexual advances, because the vote wasn’t done at his behest.  HE WAS SUSPENDED FOR SEXUAL HARRASMENT.  THAT’S WHY HE WASN’T PRESENT AT THE VOTE. HE WAS LUCKY THAT CHARGES WERE NOT PRESSED.

    Or that it took 3 shifts of packing and unpacking boxes to make sure there was a metal clip on a piece of plastic.  AND NOBODY GOT FIRED FOR SCREWING IT UP, BECAUSE THEY WERE PROTECTED.

    Or when a known drunk was caught at a bar during work hours, a union member came up to me and tried to convince me that the times I saw him at work were not the times that I saw him.  They shut up quick when I told them that there was a log of his activity that he had to start, so I had verifyable backup to when he was in the front office.

    Or maybe they’ve worked at a place where the union did NOT stand up for any of the workers who deserved reconization, who deserved a higher rate of pay, while defending the druggies, the drunks, and the slackers.

     

    You guys should go read the history of labor in the United States and just how bad it was before unions came along. 

    Yes, congrats.  You just stated that at one time they were useful.  And they were.  Now, they are more corrupt than the corruption they claim to fight.

     

     

    Also at just how hard big business has fought against the unions

    OF COURSE.  It restricts their ability to function as a flexable company.  Look at the union in Verizion trying to keep Verizion from expanding into other busnesses that do not involve laying of landlines, which is a division that is unionized.

     

  42. Shahab says:

    Actually, more like the employers would retaliate against the pro-union workers. I really don’t understand how so many people have bought hook, line, and sinker the bullshit that unions are some evil organiztions that rip off the working man.

    You guys should go read the history of labor in the United States and just how bad it was before unions came along. Also at just how hard big business has fought against the unions, even going to far as to murder organizers.

  43. jedidethfreak says:

    Let’s not forget that this is being done under the guise of "Employee Free Choice," implying that the employee is the instigator of such a decision.

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  44. Dragoon1376 says:

    During my short stint at UPS and as a Teamster, I came rather quickly to the conclusion that our safety rep was completely useless.  It wasn’t necessarily the equipment that was dangerous but the other union members working at my facility (having a few hard drug users around a lot of machinery is a bad combination).  But a big ripoff was that even if you did not join the union, you still had to pay union dues because it was a union shop. 

    First secure an independent income, then practice virtue. -Greek Proverb

  45. Shahab says:

    Well I can’t speak to your experiences but the couple union jobs I held were by far the highest paying, most benefited positions for the job I’ve ever worked.

     

    I think unions, when properly regulated, do FAR more good for employees than harm.

  46. Eseell says:

    Exactly. Secret ballots exist to protect employees from retaliation by both employers and unions. If they implement Card Check, you can guarantee the unions will be using those cards to determine who’s not on their side and make the dissenters offers they can’t refuse. Card Check is nothing more than a new way to enable union thuggery.

  47. GoodRobotUs says:

    Unions all suffer from the same problem, the concept of a Union is a great thing, but they tend to polarise into either a private fundraiser for those at the top, which seems to be common in the US, or a whiny, hand-wringing ineffectual sop, as has happened in the UK with local government.

    In the UK, ASLEF has certainly put me off of the concept, you can be pretty certain there will be at least one strike per year, deliberately timed to cause the maximum of disruption, for better pay, and I can absolutely assure you that there will be a strike during the Olympics. I support fair pay as much as the other person, but it’s evolved into undisguised greed.

  48. PHX Corp says:

    My mother dislikes unions(believes the same way as you austin) and she is a nurse at a medical center in New jersey

    Watching JT on GP is just like watching an episode of Jerry springer only as funny as the fights

  49. Austin_Lewis says:

    "As anyone who actually grew up playing Atari or Nintendo will know, calling this a video game is as accurate as their lies about the Employee Free Choice Act…"

    Like the fact that union organizers would be able to know who voted AGAINST unionizing? I suppose that’s a lie?  Or does it help the democratic process?  Maybe the union ‘organizers’ will go out and talk to them, to see if a deal can be brokered? Yeah fucking right. They’ll go to their homes, vandalize their property, threaten them, harass them, and overall just act like a fucking streetgang.

    By the way, the three unions I was involved in (2 teamster, 1 that won’t be disclosed) were all run like mafias.  Our leadership was taking kickbacks galore and ignoring the plight of the worker, and when asked for help, they ignored us.  So when I got a few guys to go in for a lawyer with me, our union representative threatened to kill me in the parking lot.  From what I hear, this hasn’t changed from being a standard union practice. 

    Unions are destroying this country, and they do far more harm than good.  That goes to all you fucking teamster union heads who think you’re the godfather, ALPA, and many, many others.

  50. MrKlorox says:

    "explain how a Steelworkers union could effectively manage a McDonalds or Wal-Mart."

    The exact same way Pizza Hut’s marketing director now runs Nintendo of America. It’s the act that is similar, not the product.

  51. Xveers says:

    They manage it by handling generic workers complaints about salary, working hours, basic conditions and whatnot. There are differences yes, but that’s not an insurmountable obstacle.

    On the second, some unions don’t notice this issue and take as much as much as they can which ends up gutting the company because the hemmorhage labor costs. This also can give a sideffect where the company moves jobs offshore in order to stay alive.

     

    Best keep your wits about you: The gears of life are always spinning, and ignorance eventually means you’ll get caught in them.

  52. Xveers says:

    I have no problems with unions doing 1 and 3. They’re IMO the ideal evolutionary ends that a union should work towards. On issue 2, there’s a limit that society will tolerate, a kind of gut-level "that isn’t fair". I have no objections to a nurse making $30-$40 an hour. They do something that’s dangerous, frustrating and something that requires considerable skill. But should a flag person for the State DOT make the same income? But that’s something that society eventually gets around to correcting. Unfortunately, issue 2 can sometimes lead towards issue 4.

    I don’t think that Issue 4 is as common as most people think. I personally think a lot of people mistake 4 for 2. That being said, we’d all have to be fools to think that 4 dosen’t exist at all.

     

    Best keep your wits about you: The gears of life are always spinning, and ignorance eventually means you’ll get caught in them.

  53. jedidethfreak says:

    To answer your first, explain how a Steelworkers union could effectively manage a McDonalds or Wal-Mart.

    On your second, at some point a union has to make concessions in order for the company they work for to maintain a profit, thereby continue to exist.  Look at what the UAW did to GM and Chrysler.  They took so much from those companies that they couldn’t stay afloat, and then they didn’t want to make any concessions, knowing that they’d get theirs no matter what.

    As for the last, it’s not as common, but it does describe the biggest ones in the country.

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  54. Austin_Lewis says:

    On your last comment:  Not really.  Every teamsters union, every UAW union, and every section of the ALPA union are run that way.  And why the fuck is it that the union heads make half a million when the people they represent make 20000 a year if they’re lucky?

  55. MrKlorox says:

    What has evolution got to do with anything? That completely dumbfounded me. Common sense shows that anyone who follows the ID side is just not all there.

  56. jedidethfreak says:

    Nobody is saying that big businesses weren’t exploitive back in the day, or that there are some who still are.  However, most Unions are arguably just as exploitive of their members as any corporation.  8 dollars per hour of my pay has to go to my medical care?  Another 4 for my Union dues?  Which I still have to pay even if I don’t have a job?  Another 3 for dental?  No 401k to speak of?  Plus, if the Union decides to strike, I get physically assaulted if I decide to continue working to support my family.  Now, they want to make it so I can’t decide to organize in secret?  And you think that this is all just propaganda?

    Do you work for the Obama administration, the AFL-CIO, or are you just completely retarded?

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  57. Snipzor says:

     Nice game libertarians, shame it’s the most WHARGARBL’d thing I’ve played all day.

    Seriously, why not lie about evolution or climate change while you shill your way about unions. Yeah, the large businesses that fucked people over in the 1930’s sure as hell weren’t exploitive.

  58. Baruch_S says:

    Well, I guess somebody has to believe the media and stand up for the Unions. I’ve personally given up on both of them, but I don’t believe much that comes out of the mouths of news anchors and politicians anyway.

  59. KayleL says:

    Now I know why in Co-op class, in the Union presentation, one classmate was greatly opposing unions.

  60. Speeder says:

    Here unions were inspired by NA unions, and yes, they ARE broken…

    I can tell SEVERAL cases of unions wrecking havock… Someone said that unions are upposed to keep pushing for better benefts… Well, unions are supposed to SOLVE PROBLEMS and then dissolve, keep bugging employers to give more things, will bankrupt them, annoy them or something worse…

    Here there was a case that a company fired 6 workers from their 400 because they were reaching the credit limit and soon would not be able to pay…

    The union (note: union, not the 6 workers, in fact, 3 of them don’t agreed) sued the company, and whatnot, and organized a strike…

     

    Result: 100 workers fired and a nearly bankrupt company because the cost of all this…

    Another one here is GM stuff, GM exists here, and unions DO organize a strike every single year on GM and Ford grounds… Altough GM and Ford here have money to increase benefits, the all other companies not, and this union pressuring causes other companies to have give the same benefits, specially when the solution is a new law…

    Here the government tried to remove some of the worker benefits, only to be pounced by unions, that also complain about unemployment… But here the cost of hiring a worker is so bizarrely high that sometimes the profit that the worker will generate does not pay its cost, so is better to don’t hire at all… Also, if instead of mandatory benefits, more money were given to workers, they would be able to use it in the way that they want, for example transport benefit, if you have your own car, it is a money that you will never use, while you still have to pay gas…

     

    criadordejogos.wordpress.com

  61. Bennett Beeny says:

    On issues 1 and 3, I don’t see why unions SHOULDN’T do these things when corporations do the same.

    On issue 2, isn’t that exactly what a worker-support organization SHOULD be doing?

    On issue 4, somehow I think that problem is a lot less common than many seem to think.

  62. Xveers says:

    Unions when created have a damn good reason to exist: to safeguard their members well being and liveleyhood against agressive acts by the employer. The problem arises when the union has effectively done this. What do they do next?

    Well, they go down four paths:

    1) They maintain this compostion and branch out into other industries and services and maintain the same overarching goal. Steelworker’s is a good one. They’re the ones who (IIRC) unionized a McDonalds and a Walmart in Canada.

    2) They keep pushing and pushing for more and better benifits and leverage their power to gain this. See UAW (in my opinion).

    3) They shift their primary focus from individual workplace issues to industry issues that affect the social structure surrounding them (teachers and nurses unions especially here).

    4) They go corrupt and turn themselves into an extortion racket for themselves or an outside third party (Teamsters are the classic example).

    So, are unions bad? No. Are some unions bad? You bet whatever body part is most dear. Is the potential removal of ballot bad? Oh hell yes. For every union that would use this as they intend, there’s at least one that would instead use it to target the most vulnerable people up to the percentage they need in order to gently persuade them to sign on or find a new line of work.

     

    Best keep your wits about you: The gears of life are always spinning, and ignorance eventually means you’ll get caught in them.

  63. GoodRobotUs says:

    Unions in the US have a bad rep anyway, which probably doesn’t help, but I have noticed that several people here claim to be talking from personal experience, which strongly suggests to me that something is definately broken with the Union system.

  64. Bennett Beeny says:

    I think it’s interesting that the union, something that is simply an organization built to protect workers’ interests, has been demonized to such an extent, that no one here has a single good thing to say about them.  If employer organizations got the same level of disapproval, I’d say everything was fine, but they don’t.  There’s something fundamentally wrong here.

  65. jedidethfreak says:

    Not according to Snipzor.  According to him, if we don’t kiss Union ass, we all are corporate zombies.

    Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.

  66. GrimCW says:

    hah hah, someone actually took a stab at the lazy unions out there?

    bah, can’t live with’em can’t live without’em though i suppose. though the game sounds more realistic to my hearing of the union thug work than what the unions claim happen.

  67. PHX Corp says:

    Nah, she isn’t in a Nurses union(that’s what I know)

    Watching JT on GP is just like watching an episode of Jerry springer only as funny as the fights

  68. Austin_Lewis says:

    It would not be surprising to find that your mother’s union had an ACTUAL mafia backing, rather than a bunch of people who like to act like a mafia.

  69. GoodRobotUs says:

    International Brotherhood of Video Game Programmers…

    If that had a better acronym, I’d already be ordering the sharks with laser beams on their heads…

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