Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

July 20, 2009 -

If you're a Swede who has unloaded an unwanted MMO account for a few extra Kronas, the taxman would like a word.

On the other hand, if you're an American who has sold your account to a Swede, the taxman would still like a word.

GameCulture points out a Stockholm News report detailing efforts by Swedish tax officials to come to grips with e-commerce. To that end, the Skatteverket is even taking a look at small fish like gamers:

The Swedish Tax Agency hold that you have to pay tax for selling an avatar from a computer game. The agency has investigated the trading in avatars during a 14 month period and found the advertised sum of avatars for sale by Swedes to be 662 million SEK. But no one has ever declared any income for trading in avatars to the Tax Agency.

But even U.S. citizens could be subject to Swedish taxation on such virtual transactions, according to the Economics of Virtual Worlds blog:

[Note that] a sale has taken place in Sweden if the seller is a Swedish trader who sells [to]... a private person in Sweden or another EC [European Community] country. A sale from a foreign trader to a Swedish trader has also [legally] taken place in Sweden. The same applies if a trader from outside the EC sells services to Swedish private persons.

Thus, even U.S. citizens are subject to Swedish taxes in virtual worlds, as long as one of the participants is Swedish. The implication is that if similar tax rules are adopted around the globe, U.S. citizens could end up owing taxes to Sweden, Japan, South Korea, and other nations (depending on which and how many worlds they are part of) – all because they played some games...

Skatteverket states that gamers should send invoices to each other. It’s unreasonable stuff they’re talking about. The [game] users [typically] don’t know who they’re interacting with...


Comments

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

Sure, I'll pay another country's taxes, where I have no rights and no representation. Yeah, didn't we fight a war about that about 233 years ago?

 

 

Yes, I am a liberal. I also believe in a strong military, less government, and the right to bear arms. ~ Me

Calling an illegal alien an undocumented worker is like calling a crack dealer an unlicensed pharmacist. ~ Me

Yes, I am a liberal. I also believe in a strong military, less government, and the right to bear arms. 

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

Exactly.  But that was a monarchy, not a socialist government.

---

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

Generally selling your characters is in violation of the EULA and therefore not exactly legal.  To put a tax on such a thing wouldn't that put Sweden in sort of a position where they are party to such a crime?

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

Why not tax the tradeing of money insted of mere sales? We have the system in palce to create such a system. Tax the movement of moeny not property leased from the goverment by paying taxes so you can "own" it, or the wokeres via income tax.

 


I am a criminal because I purchase media,I am a criminal because I use media, I am a criminal because I chose to own media..We shall remain criminals until Corporate stay's outside our bedrooms..


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Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

This is like trying to tax yard sales.

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

It's a lot like saying you're going to tax drug dealers for their sales.

 

Saying that Jack Thompson is impotent is an insult to impotent men everywhere. They've got a whole assortment of drugs that can cure their condition; Jack, however...

Saying that Jack Thompson is impotent is an insult to impotent men everywhere. They've got a whole assortment of drugs that can cure their condition; Jack, however...

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

No. It really isn't.

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

You're right, it's even easier to identify drug dealers; it is just as hard to tax their sales.

 

Saying that Jack Thompson is impotent is an insult to impotent men everywhere. They've got a whole assortment of drugs that can cure their condition; Jack, however...

Saying that Jack Thompson is impotent is an insult to impotent men everywhere. They've got a whole assortment of drugs that can cure their condition; Jack, however...

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

It happens a lot in America.  After a drug dealer is caught, they gather all the evidence of prior sales they can.  The IRS then takes them for tax evasion, based on the amount of sales the evidence eluded to.

---

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

While I don't really have an opinion as to whether they should or shouldn't tax online sale of virtual goods, I have to agree that this is almost unenforceable.  The government only knows about sales because someone declares the income in some way.  Who's going to say on their tax forms that they bought/sold an avatar?  What MMO company is going to give away that private information without losing precious customers?

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

Whilst I can understand the desire to tax virtual goods, I think that this approach is somewhat borked.

 

 

Bork bork borked!

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

Isn't against most EULA's to sell anything in game for real money?

"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

I thought the same.  In fact I wonder if the Swedish tax man isnt leaving himself open to a hell of a lawsuit.

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

Many do state that it is not allowed, indeed, many will kick players that are found to be doing so.

I wonder if many of these Tax experts actually realise this? The vast amount of cash for goods transactions taking place in MMO's, most notably things like Gold Farming etc, are actually not even supposed to be happening in the first place and the companies involved are actively trying to stop it.

It doesn't help companies trying to discourage this sort of behaviour, with Sweden actually taking steps towards making it sound legitimate by making it taxable (And I have no idea how they actually plan to enforce this tax).

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

I'm pretty sure agreeing to a EULA isn't legally binding in sweden.

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

Heh, if Sweden can apply it's taxes to other countries, how long do you think it will be until other countries start thinking 'Well, then our tax-laws apply to you.'

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

Just because it's not supposed to be happenign doesn't mean it is.

 

And Everquest has an official auction site doesn't it?

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

As I said, many, not all :)

Some games do allow it, whereas others, such as Eve Online and Wow come down like a tonne of bricks on it.

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

I have a problem with this, because it's made to sound as though ANY Swedish national ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD could buy a character from ANYONE and the seller would have to pay taxes in Sweden.  So, let's say the Swedish Ambasador to the US buys a WoW character from a US national who lives in NY.  Is that still a Swedish transaction, even though every piece of equipment is on US soil (save, maybe, the Ambassador's computer, which I'm assuming is in the Embassy)? 

---

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

I just wonder how they actually plan to enforce this crazy idea...

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

They're going to pummel you with meatballs until you capitulate.

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

Hehehe, seriously though, how are they going to monitor online transactions? Whilst some of these transactions take place through companies, I think a vast majority of them are private sales, and these often take place in-game via things like Pay-Pal. You'd have to monitor the bank accounts of every person in game, and compare them with chat logs to even start to piece together evidence that a sale had taken place, that's an awful lot of privacy invasion for a little bit of tax...

 

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

Hey if Austraila can censor the internet this should be no problem at all!

 

(yes this is sarcasm.  Just in case you didn't realize)

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

 lol

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

Hey Sweeden Good luck with taxing me cause you know as a US Citizen I really am going to pay that tax.  Yep seriously I will pay it (it might take you 10,000 years and hunting down my children's children but Im sure you can get it eventually).

 

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

This is one of the most idiotic tax rules ever conceived.  I have no idea who came up with this, but they shouldn't be writing laws for anyone anywhere.

 

"That's not ironic. That's justice."

"That's not ironic. That's justice."

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

Idiotic?

It is called a tariff or import, and we have been doing them for a long, long time.  In fact there was a time that all US taxes came from tariffs rather then income/sales tax.

Generally yes, if you sell good in other countries you do have to obey their tax codes.   When, say, VW sells cars in the US they do not get a magic 'but we are based in Germany!' exemption.

Now granted this fine grained consumer<->consumer taxation is a little tricky.

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

Therein lies the problem.  If the seller is in the United States, and the buyer is in another country, then it is difficult to determine exactly where the transaction has actually taken place.  If a Swede came to the United States and purchased a quantity of product from a retailer for sale in Sweden (the name for this process escapes me), then you certainly wouldn't expect the Swedish government to make a claim to some portion of the proceeds in that transaction.

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

Now granted this fine grained consumer<->consumer taxation is a little tricky.

 

And that's why I say this is idiotic.  In most countries, sales between two private individuals are tax-free.

 

"That's not ironic. That's justice."

"That's not ironic. That's justice."

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

More like 'unenforced', not tax free.

In the US, sales between individuals are indeed taxable, but the IRS generally does not pay attention unless the amount is over 10k.

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

Actually, no, it usually isn't.  It's just "under the table."

Re: Sold Your MMO Character? Sweden's Taxman May Want a Cut

Tax your people all you want Sweden but leave me and my country out of it.

http://www.magicinkgaming.com/

 
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KronoThe underlying suggestion most of the articles had that gamers supporting the issue were just the young men stereotype pissed off a lot of people, and sparked the #NotYourShield tag09/18/2014 - 9:41am
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Michael ChandraMeanwhile, Gamergate is tainted and wise people already use a different tag to defend decent arguments. Keeping it up is like going #KKK while arguing about PoC.09/18/2014 - 6:30am
Michael ChandraSo while claiming to be unfairly attacked for the actions of a selected few, you unfairly attack an entire crowd for the actions of a selected few? #notagamer #butahater09/18/2014 - 6:30am
james_fudgeQuiknkold: Let me ask you- how many of those 'gamers are dead' articles did you see here? Because apparently i'm part of some vast conspiracy.09/18/2014 - 5:18am
NeenekoAh, that old straw man. That is one of the ironies about the discussion, the whole point is showing how good people can still have problems with sexism and not realize it.09/17/2014 - 9:11pm
Andrew EisenYes, there have been a handful of op-eds suggesting that the term “gamer” has become tainted (two that I know of) but that’s the opinion of only a few. I've seen an equal number from those who disagree.09/17/2014 - 8:55pm
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TechnogeekIf you want to make the stereotype of gamers less painful, try calling people out when they do bad shit rather than handwave it away as "not all gamers". Even if it is a few bad apples, that'll still more than enough to spoil the barrel.09/17/2014 - 8:53pm
quiknkoldI'm not going to Sell Gamergate anymore. It can sell itself. But I will sell the integrity of the Gamer. That we are still good people, who create and donate to charitys, Who engage with those around us and just want to have a good time.09/17/2014 - 7:35pm
quiknkoldpeople should not be harrassed and punished for the actions of a few. I've always welcomed and accepted everybody who wanted to join in. Who wanted to make them, or play them. I love good strong female protagonists, and want more.09/17/2014 - 7:35pm
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quiknkoldBut there were these websites, attacking me and people like me, for the actions of a few. and then others joined in on Twitter and other places. there was a hashtag that said "explain in 4 words a gamer" and it made me sick.09/17/2014 - 7:35pm
quiknkoldManchildren who are awful people and that the Identity of the Gamer should die. This hurt me personally. I've always identified as a Gamer. Even in my childhood years, I was a Gamer. All my friends are Gamers. Its one of the core parts of my identity.09/17/2014 - 7:34pm
quiknkoldUltimately, With the whole Gamergate thing, I jumped on it due to the harassment. A small number of assholes harrass Anita and Zoe, and then all the publications lumped together Gamers as this collective of Sexist White Bigoted Basement Dwelling09/17/2014 - 7:34pm
 

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