Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

August 10, 2009 -

Are the virtual worlds portrayed in massively-multiplayer online games inherently sexist?

Although she believes the situation is improving, Jaime, a veteran female gamer, still sees a great deal of sexism in MMOs. In a column for MMOsite she explains her view:

From my own experience, in the early days of MMOs – looking back at Ultima Online and EverQuest – there was a definite attitude that women simply didn't play games... Female players who identified their gender... [were] ignored. Women... [had] their skills and abilities in the game questioned...

Players began to slowly accept that there were women playing MMOs... Nonetheless, the attitude itself was still low and chauvinistic. I can recount at least half a dozen times while playing Dark Age of Camelot... [receiving] requests for pictures, breast size, age, if I was available for dating, and various sexual requests and connotations...

There's also been one constant: the harassing of female characters... whispers soliciting cybersex, of course, but also more innocent gestures such as the use of emotes to flirt at, kiss, poke, tickle, tease, grope, slap, and otherwise virtually sexually harass a female character.

Not surprisingly, Jaime sees the anonymous nature of the online world as a major contributing factor in MMO sexism.


Comments

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

Just use your wasd keys to turn your character instead of your right mouse button. They will think you're a women.

I only play women avatars with very girly names. In the 4 years of playing mmo's, I think i've only been asked 2-3 times if I was really a girl.

I always do

---

/say wouldn't you like to know!

/giggle

 

only once while playing wow, in scarlet monestary, did someone continue to pester me trying to find out if I was a women. Man that was funny.

 

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

Then again, whenever I meet female gamers, in groups of 2 and up, all they ever seem to want to do is giggle and check out the next best guy. It's really annoying sometimes. It's worse than the shopping for shoes cliche. 

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

That's funny, 'cos whenever I meet male gamers, in groups of 2 and up, all they ever seem to want to do is giggle and check out the next best girl. It's really annoying sometimes. It's worse than the talking about football cliche.

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

You refuted "girls can be annoying" by saying "boys can be annoying too!!!" Of course both sexes can be annoying to the other, it's part of being human. Separating the "us" (guys) from the "them" (girls), and noticing differences between them. Is it right? Well, no, and as long as we don't let it get too far it isn't a problem either.

Or your post could've just been a point about how guys can do the same annoying giggling as girls...lol

-If an apple a day keeps the doctor away....what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

-Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis-It is best to endure what you cannot change-

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

You know, call it what you want, if "sexism" isn't the right word.  But it's fucking annoying being a woman in MMOs.  It's one of those things where you don't really "get it" until you've actually encountered it.  Unless you run almost exclusively with your guild, you're going to get hit on by strangers (I won't say "harassed," as that would imply the same ones doing it over and over, and once you've /ignored someone, it's hard to tell if they're still coming on to you).  One guy hitting on a woman once, from his perspective, is innocent.  But from the woman's perspective, it's the fifth /kiss, pelvic thrust, or lewd comment in a play session.  Even in a guild, you have those retards who think that since you said something nice to them, that's an invitation to request cybering in /pm. 

I think the most offensive behavior, though, is when you're asked to "prove it."  Fuck off, I'm here to kill mobs, not to give lonely nerds a boner.

As for people not trusting your skills, I'm not so sure about that one.  Ok, yeah, you've got that one guy every now and then that /kicks you from a PuG when your toon runs up, but to be honest, people irrationally and rudely /kick from group for all sorts of things.  Run an instance halfway through, and suddenly punted because his friend logged on.  Still a douchebag thing to do, but not sexist.  Actually, in the earlier days of MMOs, people would be extra nice to me about loot rolls once they saw that I could hold my own.  Of course, this is usually followed up by requests to be added to a /friend's list, and then you get start getting /pms everytime you log on to play together.  It's a more subtle form of flirting, but it's better because you can actually start a friendship as long as you're careful to never let them think they're going to get anywhere with you.  Keep your comments neutral, and pretend you didn't read any overtly flirtatious /tells, and they'll eventually get the message that you aren't looking for a date.

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

You could always play as a guy....or an orc...nobody wants to date an orc.

---

I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"

I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

Arell,

I agree with you on the general idiotic/asshole nature of pugs but I'm curious about one thing: how does the whole gender thing come up?  I have a bunch of female characters and I can't recall for the life of me the last time someone asked if I was a girl as well, which I'm not for clarification.  Maybe it's a server thing if you play WoW or just bad luck with pugs. 

Besides, no gender has the monopoly on suckage.  I've met plenty of girls that can play well and plenty of guys that need someone to hold their hands. 

First secure an independent income, then practice virtue. -Greek Proverb

First secure an independent income, then practice virtue. -Greek Proverb

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

Gender comes up in dialog occasionally, but most of what I was describing in my post comes simply from other players taking my female toon as face value.  Whether it's the guy who won't take a female toon into battle (lest her boobies be real), or the guys (plural) who try to become your new best friend or gaming buddy, that's all from them believing that you are a woman because of the gender of the toon.

There's also the fact that I don't hide my gender.  I may type up a gruff post now and then, and I don't go around giggling "tee hee" in chat.  But after a while, if someone is paying attention, the types of words and general tone can be telling of your true gender.  Not to mention the rare, self-referencing pronoun.  It's not so much about "acting" feminine, it's just that men and women talk differently without even realizing it somethimes.  And other players can pick up on it if they're alert.

Often, I just "know" when a female toon is being controlled by a guy, even when they're not being overtly "masculine."

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

I chatted with a guy for about a year, more knew him longer.  One day he came out and told us he was actually a woman.  Best shenanigan ever. 

 

Although I do agree that I can kinda tell women from men and girls from boys and children from adults, there are those rare times.

---

I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"

I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

From what I've seen, most "pervasive sexism" is simply a side effect of little boys being stupid.  They pick on everyone, and they will naturally use boobies as an excuse... just as they use accent, race, age, tone of voice, use/nonuse of internet slang, etc.

As for the flirting, well... I'm pretty good at dealing with that.  I usually inform them in a matter of fact way that there are no girls on the internet, and anyone claiming to be a girl is clearly lying.  This works on voice too -- at the very least, it will confuse them, and they'll usually get the message.  It has the added benefit of making all real girls (and men in female avs) flip out in a hilarious way.

Is it really sexist, though?  I don't think so.  I think little boys are simply desperate... and it doesn't help that there are many equally desperate women (and men pretending to be women) who will gladly take them up on that cybersex offer.  If the roles were reversed -- if it was a game full of lonely preteen girls, for example -- do you think men (especially those with with sexy sparkly vampire avs) would be able to walk an inch without similar propositions?

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

There's a lot of pervasive sexism in the MMO industry and MMO communities. It occurs at basically every level imaginable.

That said, I completely agree on the comments thing. The most common, obvious one is the ROFL NO GRIL ON INTERNAT thing. Seriously, guys - I know you think it sounds funny, but the reality is we spend 100% of our online time being female on the Internet, it's not exceptional or new to us, and no matter how funny it seems to you, it's just tiresome and a bit alienating. 

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

I have to admit, whenever I happen to be playing online and a player is identified as a girl from either voice of having a girly sounding name they do cop a whole lot of bullshit just for being a girl; ya know, constant flirting and being ganged up against. I don't know if i'd call that sexism though; there are always bullies online; if they are not picking on you because of ur gender they'll come up with some other bullshit, that's not to day that type of behaviour is acceptable though.

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

Just because someone is an all around bully that will tease almost anyone doesn't mean that they aren't being sexist when they pick on a woman player because of her gender.  It still sexist to pick on someone's gender as if it's a detriment.

www.20sidedwoman.blogspot.com

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

 What I fear is one day a very Liberal feminist will play this game someone will attack her and then sue the player and company for discrimination and force games to change the way how we play or in act restrictions because of this whiney minority.

 
Males prefer to play video games. Though some games have simplified game play and made some video games more attractive too female player but in turn eventually women will wants more rights in game and want more say. As in rules. As you know some cities a simple pat on the back can be considered sexual harassment. 
 
What scares me is video games will force homosexual content into games or the community to where if anyone speaks there mind then they are going to get punished. I simply can’t see Microsoft enacting Gay Rules or protections and then alienating a good amount of their base. I know Microsoft is a Liberal Company and GLAAD is pressuring them but I they are just a few people screaming at the top of their lunges. 
 
Again I point into the citizen imitative to ban gay marriage in the biggest leftist state in the Union California and voters saying no to it. 
 
However I will add that yes when there a girl in an MMO you’re going to get a lot of people flirting but now a days most people think females in game are actually males or as people consider them closeted homosexuals who like dressing up as a girl.

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

This just in, if you play with a female avatar you are a closeted homosexual.

Will you ever stop your madness Kefka? Your bigoted and prejudiced viewpoints shine through in every single one of your posts.

I don't even know what you're talking about with female rights in game. All avatars are treated exactly the same by the system, the gender is not relevant. And what rights would there even be? Workplace equality? Voting? I really need you to explain this one.

If someone is harassed they already have the 'right' to call on a GM to help them out.

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

I agree tho when I play as a female toon,ect I paly as a closet lesbain......as yatzhe would say I have grown a vag. >>


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

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Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

I have a female avatar in the MMO I play, my guild knows I'm a male and made the avatar just to satisfy my curiosity in the difference between how they show male/female armor.

BTW male or female avatar, someone in the arena faceing you riding an elephant and swinging a glowing chainsaw is an intresting sight.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

oh wow doc.......... well lets tackle these crazy comments one at a time.
" What I fear is one day a very Liberal feminist will play this game someone will attack her and then sue the player and company for discrimination and force games to change the way how we play or in act restrictions because of this whiney minority."
This is a possibility these days however more likely bans/kicks will be levied.
======================
"

Males prefer to play video games. Though some games have simplified game play and made some video games more attractive too female player but in turn eventually women will wants more rights in game and want more say. As in rules. As you know some cities a simple pat on the back can be considered sexual harassment. 

"



Even if they garner special rights it will boil down to kicks and bans, and sexual harassment has kinda gotten out of hand due to the wish of protecting the individual feelings of the individual not not look at it from a more generic and standardize point of view and build rules around reasonable thigns and not upon the whims of the individual...


========================================



"What scares me is video games will force homosexual content into games or the community to where if anyone speaks there mind then they are going to get punished. I simply can’t see Microsoft enacting Gay Rules or protections and then alienating a good amount of their base. I know Microsoft is a Liberal Company and GLAAD is pressuring them but I they are just a few people screaming at the top of their lunges. "


Homosexuality is part of humanity and more normal than it is abnormal, I am surprised you are not picking on the devil worshiping in most fiction..yet homosexuality is such a no no....cherry pick much?


==================



"Again I point into the citizen imitative to ban gay marriage in the biggest leftist state in the Union California and voters saying no to it.  "



Hate to tell you but marriage is not a religious matter a church and priest is optional but what is not optional in most states is the paper work of the local government.


==================


"However I will add that yes when there a girl in an MMO you’re going to get a lot of people flirting but now a days most people think females in game are actually males or as people consider them closeted homosexuals who like dressing up as a girl."



Do you comprehend role playing? do you comprehend gender and sexual roles is how we defined it and not inherit to being human?


 


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

"Game Experience May Change During Online Play"

----
Papa Midnight
http://www.thesupersoldiers.com

----
Papa Midnight

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

Tell me about it!!!

 


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

Wait, what? We started on sexism and ended up on gay marriage? Wh... I mean, WHAT?!?! My god, I know it's Kefka talking, but that's a leap even for his insanity.

"Go ahead and hate your neighbor, go ahead and cheat a friend. Do it in the name of Heaven, Jack Thompson'll justify it in the end." - nightwng2000

"Go ahead and hate your neighbor, go ahead and cheat a friend. Do it in the name of Heaven, Jack Thompson'll justify it in the end." - nightwng2000

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

My interpretation of his post is that women and homosexuals will be pushing for "rights" in games due to problems like how this female gamer has been treated. I believe we already have criteria in EULAs that allow companies to punish or ban people who don't adhere to their code of conduct, but I'm sure that's existed for years anyway so I don't know what . Likewise, I don't believe people would succeed in suing a company if someone else harassed them in a game - simply because it is not the fault of the company for it to happen, it's just their role to attempt to prevent it (i.e. in the EULA).

However: "homosexual content ... I simply can’t see Microsoft enacting Gay Rules or protections and then alienating a good amount of their base... I know Microsoft is a Liberal Company ..."
"...people consider them [women] closeted homosexuals who like dressing up as a girl."
This makes no logical sense to me, it reads like some sort of (and I dislike labelling people into groups) extreme conservative paranoia.

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

Males prefer to play video games. Though some games have simplified game play and made some video games more attractive too female player but in turn eventually women will wants more rights in game and want more say. As in rules. As you know some cities a simple pat on the back can be considered sexual harassment.

Seriously... that whole paragraph makes him sound like a paranoid misogynist.  I was going to argue, but then I read the screen name... >_>;

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

Gee, I think someone tried to hit up a female toon and got the surprise of a lifetime.  So scarred by the encounter, you must now break into mildly homophobic rants in response to articles that had nothing to do with gay players.  Good luck with that, and with improving your grammar.  I could almost understand most of what your wrote.

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

Sexisim is not "hey sexy" "whilstes" and other brain dead comments........ my god what ever happened to real sexisim, sexaul harrasment and racisim.... now childish slights are the end the end of the world...

 

 


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

So by Zippy's argument, if a black guy gets called 'nigger' , that's not racism.

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

Depends on the context 'nigger' has become a word of endearment and power in the black/hip hop community and whites close to the black community use it as such. Even using it instead of negro(for the 80+ sect) is not inherently racist. People are quick to forget context and call anything anything because it feels good.


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

 "Sexisim is not "hey sexy" "whilstes" and other brain dead comments"

Exactly. Sexism is institutional oppression based on your sex. It's overly simplistic to boil it down to single incidents, because really, an absolutely immense number of factors contribute to it in small ways to create the end result.

While a single occurrence might be insignificant, the bigger picture is a definite pattern with real effects. I'm really glad we're on the same wavelength here, Zippy. :)

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

I don't understand why you say it has to be institutional to exist - surely the act, of treating someone in a negative or unwelcome manner based on their sex, can be performed by anyone at any time and it will still be sexist, surely?

It isn't a surprising issue but I think she's right to bring it up all the same, though I'm not sure what can really be done about it.

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

Because bad mannerisms are not inherently sexism,racism,ect,ect. In the age of PCISIM we are trying very hard to label and slot all human mannerisms into preconceived petty and small definitions to protect everyone feelings  in a illogical and un reasonable manner.


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

This is totally a major problem, while I was playing Dark Age of Camelot it happened like six times!,

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

So by that argument, if a black guy gets called 'nigger' six times over the course of a couple of years, that's not a problem.

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

Clearly there are cultural differences at work here, because in my opinion, calling 'getting insulted once or twice a year' a problem is an insult to people with problems around the world.

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

No, that's on a whole other level, so the comparison doesn't quite work.  A word like "nigger" implies everything from disgust to outright hatred.  If a man flirts with me on an MMO, however, does that mean he hates me or even thinks less of me?  Of course not.  All it means is that he's desperate.  I've seen equally desperate women flirt with men online too, although it's obviously not as common, and I certainly wouldn't call them sexist, let alone compare them to people using the n-word on blacks.

Now, a better comparison is this: I've been teased for being a Canuck.  My accent sometimes gives me away, or I mention it myself, and it'll be nothing but jokes about beavers, moose, and bagged milk for the next hour or so. It's generally all in good fun, and it doesn't bother me, but it still happens. Does this mean there is a pervasive anti-Canadian attitude in MMOs, or do Canadians just make easy targets for good-natured ribbing?

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs



Don't forget the N word has changed. A good bit of the black..err hip hop community uses it as a term of endearment and power its not inherently a racist term these days, loaded yes but like the trem bitch is losesing its negative meaning even if at a slower rate.

PS:Canucks are sexy!!!!!!


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

I personally think that the whole n****r as a term of endearmont thing is a crock of shit. Those that use it freely, I personally believe, do not understand its origin. Those that use it online and spout it do so because they can without reprocussion or believe (rather wrongly) that there are no blacks around or don't care either way, and would typically never say such in the presence of another black individual - with the rare exception of course. That's simply a fact. Now I personally don't use the word and refuse to allow any of my friends to say such. I had another friend who was of Anglo origin and was under the impression that using an "a" as the suffix instead of "er" did not make it racist. Now I don't know where this whole term of endearment or a mere modification of the suffix does not make it racist comes from, but I do believe it to be a crock.

----
Papa Midnight
http://www.thesupersoldiers.com

----
Papa Midnight

Re: Female Gamer Sees Sexism At Play in MMOs

Well if a whole segment of black culture did not use it for bro,girl,buddy,bud,ect it dose not really matter what the word was as a living language(English or Ebonics depending on who you ask) changes meanings and words as time goes on.

Don't get me wrong its still a loaded word that can not be easily used by anyone BUT its no longer an absolute negative meaning which more defines our lazy officials in office who are slaves to money than anyone else....

 


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

 
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