The digital era has permanently altered the way media is controlled and distributed, resulting in a relationship between rights holders and the public that is often contentious. Against that backdrop, so-called Pirate Parties have sprung up recently on the European political scene.
Andrew Robinson, who heads the UK Pirate Party, spoke to PC Pro about his organization, its vision, and why the party’s name is a problem:
There’s approximately 7 million file sharers in this country – you’re branding a huge percentage of this population criminals for doing something that doesn’t have any proven implications. It’s a ridiculous state of affairs… People who copy a movie are lumped in with people who steal cars.
Our copyright law is horribly outdated and its skewed one way because all the lobbying is on the side of big businesses…
Competing with the Conservatives while wearing an eye patch isn’t going to do us any favours. We’ve had the [Pirate Party] name foisted on us by the Swedish party, but it’s difficult. We need to point out that we’re saying very sensible things, while the industry lobby is labelling us as pirates… We’re trying to have a proper debate and when people actually listen to what we’ve got to say they’ll realise we’re being serious…
Assumptions make me laugh. I say one thing everyone assumes another. It’s funny. I’d rather deal with 100 people who acknowledge their shortscomings then deal with one more idiot with a holier-than-thou-complex. I have downloaded music, and games, in the past but that doesn’t mean I’m as single minded as some of the posters in this article. One can argue on the side of the law but that doesn’t change the fact being a zealot makes you near as worse as the criminals themselves.
I really do hope for legal downloads and the like to become to standard operating proceedure, 100% behind it when it does. But that would mean the industries would have to get up off their asses and accept the change. I can hope all I want, but I don’t see that happening anytime soon.
How exactly does one win a debate by spouting one fact over and over again while also including copious amounts of profanity in ones arguement. This isn’t a debate, there’s no logic involved in this. No presentation of two sides. All I’ve seen is selective reading and blinding rage. If this was a debate half of the posters would of been thrown out of the fucking building.
Wait a minute – this whole time you’ve been FOR legal downloads and legal filesharing?
Why the fark would you argue on the same side as the freetards?
Exactly what is your position, Mr. Eel?
I gess their reelly r such things as wilfull ignorance, stupidity, and determined criminals.
Laughable. Unable to respond with logic, you take an issue with a spelling mistake.
Only a useful tactic on the interweb; in a debate, you’d be toast, mate.
It’s funny, you keep saying the same things over and over again. Are you trying to prove something?
You’re definitely making progress, you almost sounded civil. I see your reading retention is improving as well. P2P networks helps move data around, here’s hoping we see digital downloads for games and everything else become common place. If only so we can watch the industries flounder as they try to justify ever increasing price tags.
Better to spell words incorrectly but say something right, than to spew ignorance with perfect english. Thankfully, though – THIEF is an easy one.
There’s no rationalizing with a thief. The middle ground you’re looking for doesn’t exist because stealing is never right. But I wouldn’t expect you to understand.
You understand the parting shot is usually the last bit at the end of the message. As in the last line of text that shared his opinion of moral fiber. Maybe reiteration will help you under this better.
Translated as
"I’d like to take this moment to divert attention away from my own irrational hilarious outbursts to point out that while you can post whatever reponse you like I have no problem ignoring it if it means there’s even the slimmest of chances that my words will actually accomplish any thing.
I find you to be a truly destestable human being. "
You see? That last part, parting shot.
Are you qualified to measure ones IQ, or does that come lumped in with your Internetz degree? I’m assuming your reading ability is on par with my friend Gaming Observer, I’ve never said the act of pirating should legal just because I’ve done it. Hell I’ve never said it should be legal period. My actions are my own and the fact you believe you can sham me into your mindset is amusing at best and head-banging at worst. But it’s okay, if you insulting a lone name on here makes you feel better at the end of the day I’m all for it. I would never dream of dictating someone elses life for them. You gotta blow off some steam, what better way than breathing a little heavy knowing your next comment might trigger an explosion of over-stated rage.
More lovely parting words, let us hope one day spell check is embraced for the invaluable tool it is.
At no point in your post did you actually point anything out. You just copied-n-pasted a bunch of other posts into one wall-of-text that made no argument to anything anyone said anywhere in this board.
You’re parting shot was also really stupid, too. You freely admit to theft (whether you want to call it that or not), but think he should only be angry with you for your theft if you stole from him. Sorry, doesn’t work. You’re a theif, so you’re unliked.
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Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.
Of course he wouldn’t – he hasn’t the balls for it, nor the courage of his convictions.
One day, anonymity will be a priviledge on the internet. Look out for that day, freetards.
Are you this much of an idiot in real life? Do you go up to random people on the street and tell them that crimes shouldn’t really be illegal just because YOU do them? Murder and rape should stay illegal, but theft should be okay because you do it. Yeah, you’re really going to make a real case for your "argument" with that kind of logic.
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Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.
Thief. End of story.
You can read right, you know, at the beginning before I pointed out your own hypocrisy. I know it must have hurt having a wretched thief point those things out to you. You have the right to remain silent(oh thats funny) but perhaps your over driving need to have the last word won’t let you. What have you worked on by the way, you know so I can know if I have in fact stolen from you.
Ooh, nice parting shot. I’ll feel that one in the morning.
Do I sound angry? Really? Because I’m laughing, the fact you both believe you can somehow shame me into your idiotic, one way mindset. This is the most fun I’ve had on here in a while. This is me sharing my opinion, if you tire of it you have every right to remain silent. But you don’t and your comments are funnier than the comics in the morning paper. Are you this over-zealous when it comings to pot? Driving under the influence? Does the thought that a crime is undoubtable being committed as you read this boil your blood? No? Then thats great! It must mean you’re balanced human being who doesn’t let the neferious actions of others over-load your indignate sense of right and wrong.
Maybe it’s just the fact you can find an anonymous target for your e-rage while remaining anonymous yourself. Or does the possibility of a real world encounter fill you with glee?
What do you have the right to be angry over? You are the one breaking the law, and then making lame-assed excuses for it that have all been effortlessly destroyed by logic. That logic, by the way, being the reasons that it’s illegal in the first place – the person or persons with the only rights to the material are not being compensated for your use of said material. You have no rights to any IP you did not create, unless you purchased those rights from the person with said rights. It is not, and never has been, anyones right to distribute material they didn’t pay for, whether for profit or not, because you don’t own the material in the first place.
Now, if you believe you have a right to be angry because you’re legally and morally wrong in all of the arguments you have put out here supporting criminal activity, so be it, but you’re wrong about that too. You don’t have the right to be angry about being wrong. You have the right to change your attitude, or you have the right to remain silent. At least, here in America, that’s the way it works. In Bizzaroworld, where laws have no meaning, which is where I assume you’re from, that may be different, but our Internet doesn’t reach Bizzaroworld.
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Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.
Actually, greedy would define you and the others here that openly steal and distribute media and never compensate those that have created it.
I prefer to think of myself as "rational", which would make sense if you didn’t for some reason think I should be working for free.
*nods head*
Shall we just note for the record that you failed to respond – in any way – to my actual post, as much as you’re just complaining about how much you don’t like being told (in any type of tone) that you’re a wretched thief.
Not surprising, since you’re morally vacant.
Quoting myself: "only 10% of the costumers of the products would remain."
Now quoting you: "in order for 90% of the population to be pirates"
Yes, 90 + 10 is 100, but I think that this is only true if 100% of the population are costumers of your products, something that I doubt.
criadordejogos.wordpress.com
Apparently, you don’t know math very well. The combined population of China and India is about 2.5 billion, according to Google. The population of the Earth is about 6.7 billion according to the US Census Bureau. So, in order for 90% of the population to be pirates, like you said in your initial post, 6.03 billion peope would have to commit piracy. Considering the fact that piracy is actually an issue, this isn’t the case, because laws would have been passed worldwide making it legal. To the post I’m referring to here, continue to do the math. China and India only have one-third of the world’s population, not two-thirds as you state.
Finally, if the only part of my post you can respond to is me calling you a fucktard, you must really be one, because either you only read and understood that, or you read and understood the rest, but couldn’t form a coherent argument for your position to counter.
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Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.
Oh yeah, your conduct on here certainly shows how professional you can be. Why is it you assume just because he disagree’s with something that’s illegal he’d be willing to voilate possible company policies? I really don’t expect to get a serious answer, all your other comments have shown just how quickly you turn to insults to stroke your fragile ego.
Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.Piracy is illegal.
Can’t you find anything more entertaining to say? Oh wait, that’s right.
You deserve to choke on a penis.You deserve to choke on a penis.You deserve to choke on a penis.You deserve to choke on a penis.You deserve to choke on a penis.
How would you even fucking know you little cretin?How would you even fucking know you little cretin?How would you even fucking know you little cretin?How would you even fucking know you little cretin?
The endgame to this argument is that you are a fucking idiot.The endgame to this argument is that you are a fucking idiot.The endgame to this argument is that you are a fucking idiot.The endgame to this argument is that you are a fucking idiot.The endgame to this argument is that you are a fucking idiot.The endgame to this argument is that you are a fucking idiot.The endgame to this argument is that you are a fucking idiot.The endgame to this argument is that you are a fucking idiot.
**Edited to remove some of my flaming. Sorry, but this is not abstract for me. I feel as though I deserve to be angry, but don’t want to be a dick if I can avoid it.
Oops, if you were the best anti-piracy had in their defense this would be a non-issue by now. Be thankful people far more competent than you and me are dealing with this.
Do you mind if I make an assumption? Of course you don’t, you’ve indulged yourself plenty. This must be very theraputic for you. Multiple times you’ve said ‘I’m done, conversation over.’ but you just keep coming back. I hope this is atleast relieving some of your stress at knowing you’re surrounded by thieves everywhere. Probably take a hit just to mellow out every now and then right? That’s cool, I’m happy everything isn’t black and white for you. Just remember, the internet isn’t serious buisness and breaking some laws while trying to enforce others doesn’t make you that big a hypocrite.
While his caustic reply wasn’t exactly adding anything to the discussion I’m not sure how wanting to be compensated for one’s work makes one greedy.
what? i deserve to choke because you are greedy? i fail to see the correlation
If you honestly don’t believe that piracy is stealing, please walk in to work on Monday and sit down with your boss, and plainly explain to him that you pirate video games and other media, and in fact, install some sort of file sharing software and do it while you’re at work.
I’m certain they’ll understand.
I actually believe that you’re mentally handicapped.
You’re not reasoning with anyone in the first place. There is no "reasoning" the theft of other people’s work.
You can hide behind semantics all you want but the bottom line is plain and obvious to anybody with the slightest bit of intelligence. You are REQUIRED BY LAW to pay for your entertainment. Piracy is theft. Piracy is stealing. People who pirate and try to defend themselves deserve to have all of their posessions removed from them and be forced to work for free, just to see how they like it.
Perhaps the reason that you’re being called a fucktard is because YOU ARE ONE. Now please, kindly pay the people that you’ve stolen from.
You deserve to choke on a penis. That’s all I can really say.
"But that is happening right now in mass and its effects are negligibleat best"
How would you even fucking know you little cretin?
You honestly think that millions upon millions of people illegally obtaining copyrighted materials has no affect? I’m sorry, but have you had your head entirely up your ass for the past 10+ years as the entire music industry on a global basis has gone to shit? Are you missing the decline in studio volume within the video game industry, and honestly suggesting that piracy has NOTHING to do with that? You want to venture a guess at why PC games sell 25% (if that) of what they used to? Would you like to take a shot at rationalizing why PC-centric genres hardly exist anymore, like the RTS, Adventure Game, Simulation, etc. – save for the juggernaut franchises?
You have no fucking clue what you’re talking about, and you never have. I have absolutely no respect for you. You’re not just a thief, but a liar and a pretender as well.
I don’t reason with people that instead of reasoning call others fucktard (or any other insult mind you).
Also remember that the countries with the biggest amount of piracy are china and india, that togheder have 2/3 of the entire world population.
Also remember that according to the current law, even borrowing something to other person is piracy (this is one of the things that the Piraty Party wants to change btw.), among other things.
criadordejogos.wordpress.com
The case you linked to said it wasn’t theft AS RELATED TO TRANSPORT OF STOLEN PROPERTY. That doesn’t explicitly say piracy isn’t theft.
Also, where the fuck did you get that 90% of the population of this planet are pirates? If that were the case, this wouldn’t be an issue you fucktard.
When you sell something, saying it is something legitimate, and take the money from that sale, not giving it to the person you pirated from, you are stealing that persons money, i.e. THEFT.
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Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.
I am not trying to say that I am not a criminal or something like that, also I am not defending myself, I said on my post that piracy IS a crime (I did not say that it was not…).
But piracy is not stealing, you are not taking something without paying, you are copying. Remember that piracy does not encompass only data piracy, you can buy pirated cigarretes for example, or pirated drink, it was manufacture, it is a new product, using maybe even the same mean of production, piracy is not stealing because you are not subtracting something from someone, you are creating another thing without permission, it is still a crime, but it is not theft (mind you, I am not saying that it is better, or worse than theft, neither I am saying that because it is theft it is less bad, I am only saying that piracy is piracy, and theft is theft, the two are not the same, and should not be treated the same, and they don’t arise from the same social problems, neither cause the same result in society).
I don’t said that we need to turn the other cheek, I said that we don’t need to go slashing people ears… If you for example arrest every single person that ever commited piracy, the result would be that only 10% of the costumers of the products would remain. Also some products are particularly popular because piracy (Altough this is not what I am discussing here).
Fifth: You cannot say that the poor don’t own something, or something else… Yes, indeed seeing a PS3 or a computer that can run Crysis is a rarity, but like I pointed in another post here, these are not anyway the source of most piracy (damn, the PS3 can not be pirated yet, at least no widely known way exist…), you forgot that downlaod piracy (what people mostly complain) depends on Broadband, that is even less popular than PS2, I don’t doubt that some games have 90% of its copies pirated, Wining Eleven series for example, for each original copy that I see (for console, not PC mind you), I see about 100 pirated, and the industry even does not know about it.
People that work at Crytek, or Actvision come crying that their games are pirated and that they will receive less salary… BUt hell, these are not even the most pirated games, they may be the most bought legally, but they are certainly not the most pirated, the most pirated games are older games, that run in any poor person machine, or new games that run in any machine and are unreachable (like no legal way to buy it, or bizarre price for the standards of the local population).
Also, in a brazillian favela you can find a television in each house, and several has PS2 or other console, remember that altough a console IS expensive somehow to them, it is cheaper than other forms of entertainment and even cheaper than other stuff like a car, or a motorcycle, or even a bycicle… It may take them a loooong time to buy it, but they eventually do.
Sixth: It is not clear right now if piracy hurts, helps or is indiffrent to the industry. Logically you would say that it hurts because people are not getting paid, but people msut remember that also it increases popularity, and that a major amount of people that pirate stuff,would plainly not buy legal if they could not pirate (thus the money would be not earned anyway). Also there are other smaller nuances that are too complex to be discussed here right now.
criadordejogos.wordpress.com
EDIT: I am not a US resident, but most people here are (as the joystick logo clearly shows…), here is then a relevant article on why piracy is not theft: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowling_v._United_States_(1985)
First, piracy is stealing. You are taking something without paying for it. That’s theft.
Second, your statement that piracy isn’t stealing is an extremely thin-veiled attempt to make yourself feel as though you weren’t a criminal. You were.
Third, piracy is a crime, and always will be, because it’s theft. See above.
Fourth, you’re right that piracy can’t be erradicated completely, but your comment that we should turn the other cheek is akin to saying that we should let murderers and rapists do what they want because they’d get bored without the risk of being put in prison.
Fifth, the poor of the world that you seem to think piracy is serving DON’T HAVE TELEVISIONS, COMPUTERS, XBOX’S, PS3’S OR WII’S. If they did, they have enough money to buy the games.
Sixth, this point is absolutely right, but piracy only hurts the industry because of the fact that the companies aren’t getting the money they are due, you know, since nobody pays for pirated games.
I guess I’m trying to say that you should stop trying to rationalize your criminal activity with your lame, baseless and patently false points.
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Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.
"but no you would rather have moot absolutes that take away our rights."
Since when did people have a "right" to indulge in entertainment without paying compensation to those that provide such entertainment?
Video games, movies, music and so forth… you have no RIGHTS to these things, they are privileges. Those that created them spent much time, money, and labor into creating them and deserve compensation. If you don’t feel like paying that compensation, then don’t indulge in the entertainment… find something free or cheap to entertain yourself.
Nicely said
I replied below, in a new post.
criadordejogos.wordpress.com
Again, full agreement. We try to change the entire model of how we personally market, distribute etc. As an entity we are trying to do our part, we don’t want to fuck over our audience, we wouldn’t exist without them. If we weren’t doing that then the consumer has every right to tell us to piss off. My issue at the moment is that the majority of consumers aren’t willing to do their part. Unfortunately this is the fault of the bigs. They pushed too far so now the consumer has pushed back too far. A middle ground will be reached but it’s going to take time, and during that the consumer needs to know who and what they’re affecting and how. I’d just like to see everyone on all sides accept that and get rid of the sense of entitlement that both cling to.
Yeah, pretty much. I just like the ‘middle ground’ attitude more than I do the whole "Black and white but no fucking gray allowed". If the various industries are hurting then they should see what they’re doing wrong, if anything before they jack up the prices and include various means of controling how their consumers use their products. That’s one awfully lopsided middle ground. That doesn’t show a whole lot of trust, and if you can’t trust your industries life blood should you really be making things for them anyway?
Ok then you agree with me.
No, not ignored. Not so long as other factors: bad marketing, meddling producers and the other detremental agents are given equal blame. Pirating isn’t fair, precious little is, that’s why those who get caught get punished. If you can’t be satisfied with what small victories are achieved against piracy then what can you do about it? There should be a meeting in the middle between consumers and producers, ultimately it’s going to about who wants to achieve it more.
I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make exactly. Because it’s not the only part of one’s success or failure then it should just be ignored? I never claimed that piracy was the definitive cause of mine or anyone’s survivability. All I said is that for the smaller/independant artist it hurts a lot more than most people are willing to admit. People have used file sharing to push their work forward. Those people are lucky in the fact that they can afford the time and money to distribute their work freely. Not everyone is in that position.
Sorry, but wouldn’t it be that way whether Pirating is an issue or not? I mean, isn’t it a fact of life that the bigger entity usually has less to worry about in regards to the small ones and inversely so? Pirating being a contributing factor to ones success or downfall doesn’t make it the be all end all of issues concerning ones survivability in this crapsack world. Or am I wrong in thinking that? Haven’t some people used file sharing as a way to spread their ideas and talent and all that other crap? And before it’s said, once gain, I understand pirating is currently illegal. I don’t need reminding.
The effects are negligable if you’re Warner Brothers or something like that. If you’re independant and self financed like we are then the effects hurt. We’re still in the hole from paying for the recording and have no way to recoup that if people won’t pay for what they consume. The big boys will always get their money no matter what, it’s the small independant artist, developer, etc. that gets fucked. Even if you are on a major label it still comes out of the artists pocket when their stuff is freely distributed. The label just fronts all the money for recording, pressing, marketing, etc. The artist owes back every single cent of that no matter what and album sales are a huge factor in that.
Marginalizing the illicit profit part of it will come eventually but in the meantime am I supposed to just say it’s ok for you to give away my work, and go into horrible debt? Both the creators and the consumers have rights and unfortunately as the big companies have pushed for their rights to extend too far the consumers have thusly pushed their rights too far. Just as we don’t have the right to tell you that you can’t do anything with that cd but listen to it alone in your room with the lights out, the windows closed and with the walls soundproofed so no one else can hear it, you don’t have the right to consume and distribute our work without compensation. I agree that a middle ground needs to be found but just as we are trying to change the bussiness model the consumer has to do their part too.
People are not getting my point and thinking that I am a evil pirate bastard that steal money from everyone…
First, piracy is not stealing.
Second, yes, I have lots of pirated stuff, no, I don’t pirate stuff regularly anymore.
Third, yes, currently piracy is a crime, and yes, removing copyright of everything WILL make GamingObserver (and me), jobless… I disagree thus with pirate party in that (I think that a copyright reform is needed, not copyright removal).
Fouth, piracy cannot be erradicated without your own product suffering, thus I believe that if we ignore piracy to some extent, we gain more than actively hunting pirates with the GamingObserver attitude, that only make your costumers hate you instead.
Fifth, I do believe that poor, and all the other 4 billion humans on earth that are currently ignored by the game industry, have the right to play eletronic games, and I believe that making cheapter games is the way to do… If Square can cram several DVDs of content in a 50 USD game, why a company cannot put their games that are one third of the size into a 20 USD game? (I am talking about size of the work here)
Sixth, I think that the idustry currently expends too much money, it is a inefficient industry, and this problem should not get to the costumer end by price raising. Some companies made awesome games without spending 30 millions.
criadordejogos.wordpress.com
Mr. Peacock
But that is happening right now in mass and its effects are negligibleat best, if you focus on illicit profit you decrease shearing thus marginalizing it that much more.
Lending is equable with copying that’s equable to copy circumvention that’s equable to sharing, you kinda have to bundle them all together otherwise you remove one you remove another and you wind up in a very real situation where you can copy but not cannot bypass copy protection and the industry is blocking licensed CCS/CSS approved end user hardware that can copy a disc or make a video file out of it. We are pretty much in a situation where you need a industry approved stamp to own pot.
What I am trying to get at mitigate it, marginalize it so that it has a reasonable necessary societal release that’s well regulated.
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
“this is Gaming Observer, and all he has ever wanted is a gold-plated shark tank. But now,because of pirates taking away sales he would have had,he is going to wait a few months.” seriously ? i am supposed to feel bad for you? ppl have much bigger problems than yours. As an artist, you should be happy so many ppl are even playing your game , not crying over sales you wouldn’t have gotten anyways. I dont pirate games, but this ” gimme gimme gimme mine mine mine ” attitude from ppl like him makes me consider it.
Lending a cd to a buddy or two is completely different than putting that same cd up on a torrent for millions of people to take. Just because you’re not making any profit from it you don’t have the right to give away my work. If you paid for one of my cd’s then you absolutely have the right to make a backup of it, digitize it, etc. You do not have the right to give it away to anyone on the net. A shit ton of time and money went into writing and recording all that under the basic economic principle of creating a product, then sell said product. If it doesn’t sell because people don’t like it, then that’s that. That’s how the market works. If it doesn’t sell because people are freely distributing it and consuming it without giving their fair share to us then we just lost a lot of money for no reason.
Stealthguy
"Translated as: Oh Zippy, what a complete monster you are for not conforming to my way of thinking. My e-rage when confronted with your ideals and opinions is matched only by the e-rage I feel because of the fact I can’t doing a fucking thing about it."
Can I lixs it and mkaez it betterz??? =^0^=
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
StickBoy
The trouble is the individual content creator gets less than pennies by the ton on what would be shared, its so insignificant its nearly moot but you are so out for a eye for an eye you can not see that ratio.
But sure we levy blank tapes and blank discs I have no trouble with taxing the net,PC hardware and all media devices(radios,TVs to Ipods and players,any audio video device’s includeing consoles) for 10% funnel 80% of that money into the main artist orginisations while the government gets 20% to run the regulation. It sucks but tis the cost of business and balancing the rights of all.
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
Translated as: Oh Zippy, what a complete monster you are for not conforming to my way of thinking. My e-rage when confronted with your ideals and opinions is matched only by the e-rage I feel because of the fact I can’t doing a fucking thing about it.
No, I’d have you properly reimburse the content providers from whom you steal.
But then again that assumes you’re capable of compassion, which clearly you aren’t. You’re only interested in what you can take for yourself, rather than rewarding the labour involved in creating the entertainment you so readily enjoy.
If you cared – or at the very least were capable of not being so selfish – you’d actually worry about that kind of thing.
Stealthguy
Ah stickboy…. well ya name calling and flaming is part of the net and all…I try not and get into it much I am dumb enough as it is if I take my grammar any lower I might as well type with my dick like so nnnsdnkjbdsfvbhilasdfgvsdvh sd. Now if you exuce me I have hurt myself….*limps off* LOL
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
Well, what can I say. I am 97% moomin, after all.
Ya ya lets waste time and money and effort policing an unenforceable slight against the media industry that rakes in billions yearly, I guess we don’t need laws and let the rich do as they please.
If you have not figurered it out yet I am only for file shearing that dose not turn a profit which in turn will shirk the file shearing world drastically..but no you would rather have moot absolutes that take away our rights.
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
Not you Zippy, Sir See-Spot-Run up further. :p I haven’t actually been to any debates but does calling your opponet a dick gain you points and lose you points?
Stealthguy
What can I say I suck at words. 😛
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
Wait wait, hold on a second. You were trying to make a point with the whole see-spot-run rendention? I thought you were just trying to be funny and an asshat at the same time. I’m responsible for my own behavoir, I’m not going to base it off of what you consider acceptable. But you know, I liked it, the whole thing was very simple and cute. You kinda marred it at the end, you better work on that before you show it to the kids.
Post more, Zippy, Every time you do, you only lend credence to your opponents’ position.
StevoUK
This is more about protecting the publics individual right of broad fair use if you can not lend you can not copy you can not do anything but be beholdant to the system as it is, now if the system responded with a couple back up discs in a case and offered other services the issues would be moot but with everyone looking out for their own bottom line you have to find a better balance than "ZOMG you can’t" or "ZOMG I CAN!!11".
As I have said before you focus on illicit profit in any form which would cull more than half of the net once the world starts to police it more and the other half would bounce around so erratically it would marginalize them even more making small self run sites that can not handle alot of bandwidth the status quo in file shearing. My point is you marginalize the "bad behavior" not criminalize it and make more alluring and make it that much more integrated in the worlds black market.
The soapboxing comes from people thinking this is a "yes" or "no" answer when in all actuality its a "but with restrictions" one.
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
SticKboy/StevoUK
Your point is you can’t think past some might not pay.Your apathic inability to think outside the box is why the US nearly went into another depression….
You can’t have absolutes in anything if we killed everyone who committed homicide and rape on mere appearance you would cull off half the world on the whims of lairs.
My god man gain a clue…….
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
"It all balances out".
Kindly explain to the nice people how not paying for a studio’s work until they go bust ‘balances out’.
Oh, and hold the soapboxing crap. I think we’ve all had our fill of that.
You’ve dodgaed my point completely. But there’s NO arguing with you Zippy, so fuck it – I’m outta here.
My point is simple let the individual lend and copy but make it impossible to make a profit off it which 90% of the net currently dose, if you do that it becomes that much easier to enforce and you will truly effect it positively.
You can not hope to change anything by moving in a dictoral direction and thats all I see and worse with the DMCA and HDCP,ect,ect
You also can never stamp out individual greed but you can funnel it and have sectors(recovering devices,blanks,storage,hardware,modchips) of the industry cater to it, by the end of the day it all balances out, but if you constantly restrict things the people will revolt constantly.
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
I am SticKboy, and I’m here to ask you a question: Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?
‘No!’ says Speeder, ‘It belongs to the poor.’
‘No!’ says Stealthguy, ‘It belongs to Me.’
‘No!’ says ZippyDSMlee, ‘It belongs to everyone.’
I rejected those answers; instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose…
RESPONSIBLE BEHAVIOUR, DIPSHITS.
Zippy. Seriously. You try to portray GamingObserver as a petulant child who is out of touch with reality, but with every stroke of that tarbrush you taint yourself.
In other words, YOU are unable to see that your actions are ALREADY illegal – no amount of posturing and grandstanding (which are failing miserably, by the way) on the internet will change this. If someone makes something, anything, and you want it, you are obligated to pay them the amount that they ask. If you don’t want to pay, which is your right (at this point), you don’t have to – but you also don’t get the item. This is fair.
You want to be able to play whatever your little heart desires – that’s also fine: every single poster on this site enjoys games and would play as many as they could, given half a chance.
You don’t want to pay for the games you do play. This is not fair. This is wrong.
End. Of. Discussion. This is reality – enjoy!
I didn’t say he was smarter, just that he was making his case and you were not. Did it hit a nerve, by any chance? You’re getting more and more desperate to justify your thievery. It’s quite pathetic, actually.
My point exactly.
He’s not advocating making something illegal. It already is.
—
Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.
Theft is already a crime. Everywhere. That’s the point you miss. If I have something to sell, and somebody takes it without paying, I don’t get money. That is theft. This is exactly what piracy is. What is so hard to understand about that?
—
Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.
But it’s not "wai wai I don’t like it make it illegal ". It’s "pay up what you owe, you greedy little troll"
StevoUK
Oh yes the child with the better grammar is somehow "smarter" than the person trying to balance out the issue at hand by offering a solution other than "wai wai I don’t like it make it illegal ". Words and sentences have meaning no matter the poor structure if you are unable to comprehend it then perhaps you should go back to your little world because the real world dose not rely on such perfection.
Oh and his problem not being able to sell a game is not mine its not my fult people do not like it.
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
StevoUK
Considering Gaming Observer is whining like a child about the world being unfair unable to look at the problem like an adult and form a opinoin to the issues that would marginalize the bad behavior, instead he wants to make stuff he dose not like a crime.
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
Well then, I hope you only do volunteer work and never take a salaried job, otherwise you’re pretty much outed as a MASSIVE hypocrite. Which you plainly are.
And, quite frankly, you know next to nothing about the real world and you get a solid ZERO on understanding and comprehending logic.
Gaming Observer: well-constructed, logical arguments.
You: Bizarre and illogical ‘truisms’ based on a desperate need to justify plainly illegal actions. That, or you live in Fantasy Land.
Oh, well done, you. You managed to goad someone who’d already admitted to being personally involved with the issue, then use a pithy truism to gain some points.
You’re an absolute and total f*cking loser, mate. If there was any justice, someone would steal all your shit then go on the internet to boast about / defend their plainly (at least, to anyone with a stitch of intelligence) illegal actions.
Dick.
Gaming Observer
Wow… I still find it fascinating that you want to make something that is not directly harmful something that can not really be enforced so illegal… you know nothing of markets and humans good sir.
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
Yes.
criadordejogos.wordpress.com
Have you ever downloaded a game, song, or movie – experienced it – and then not paid for it?
And an overwhelmingly immature need to get in the last word! You know what, I like you too, lets agree to disagree.
Ignorance loves company – enjoy your bed fellows.
I like this guy. ^_^ As to your response Gaming Observer, yes I would be mad if someone fucked me over but I’ve never put self in that sort of position. I suppose it comes with the territory? And as much as I can appreciate your fervor you’re not accomplishing anything here. You’re ranting, against Zippy, you’re better off insulting a wall. Of course, this being the internet one can let out their inner asshat without fear of reprisal. It’s also the only reason I’d wasting me time watching, your pointless e-rage makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.
The endgame is that when someone instead of arguing only call the other something, it is because he has no argument to counter.
criadordejogos.wordpress.com
"The problem is its not stealing because it dose not cause direct harm, unless you can show me it causes direct harm its not something that society should spend its time heavily policing."
The endgame to this argument is that you are a fucking idiot. Done.
The problem is its not stealing because it dose not cause direct harm, unless you can show me it causes direct harm its not something that society should spend its time heavily policing.
I was going to add in the above post,
First off get rid of the DMCA it prevents you from backing up a DVD and ripping out the intrusive DRM in a game and make modchips legal again, Make it so only protections on the receiving end of any communication can be circumvented but may not effect the server in any way. Ensure servers may not be hacked period(since things are moving to a streaming setup protect the streams if you will). We wont need discs in 20+ years so we do not have to unrealistically protect physical formats. Make any kind of illicit profit against the law period without question, treat file shearing as a minor crime of no more than 100$ a incident. Tax net/media devices and PC hardware 10% to help fund media enforcement and policing.
We need to setup the frame work of the next 50-100+ years of media protections and freedoms not get stuck in antiquation unable to think about things in a 22nd century mindset.
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
That people are unable to stop themselves from stealing, doesn’t mean that rules against stealing are a bad idea.
"Also you don’t have to tell me how much costs to do a game, I am in the industry, I have friends at Ubisoft, Gameloft, and a person that was an EA manager is my managment teacher…"
I’d love to know what your name is and where you work, so I can promptly call them and let them know that you are a pirate, and that you advocate piracy. Let’s see how long you keep your job. Then again, I’m quite certain you don’t have the balls to put that out there, because you know how your employers would feel about someone who steals from their peers.
It’s still illegal.
—
Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.
You do realize that lawsuits and DRM are a response to stealing, not the other way around, right?
—
Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.
I’m not allowed to have a emulator with a copy of Mother 3 (Earthbound 2) because it’s stealing from the company? Even though it was never released in America, and people spent their time translating it for no gain to give it away freely to fans of the series?
I agree, you should not pirate games that are easily found, but if it’s a game that’s no longer being made and I can’t find it, I’ll download it on an emulator.
—
I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"
I see, you are a fan of Kotik, that even raised the prices on Modern Warfare 2 or something…
I must say, that I never saw a copy of CoD being played, not even pirated… It may be popular somewhere else, and maybe people pirate it… But I don’t see that… The games that I see pirated are for example console games (yes, there are much more console piracy than companies know, the reason is that people that get console pirated games usually ARE poor enough to not even own a internet connection, thus they BUY pirated media on the streets). And some older PC games, Counter-Strike for example is wildly popular within pirate circles… Why? It is because it is legally banned, you can only get it pirated… Or the The Sims series… Serously that they need all that margin in each new expansion?
The torrent piracy is only the tip of the iceberg of piracy, for each download of a famous high-end game, 20 copies of a older game are sold by a specialized dealer.
Also you don’t have to tell me how much costs to do a game, I am in the industry, I have friends at Ubisoft, Gameloft, and a person that was an EA manager is my managment teacher, when Game Newell said that piracy is costumers not served properly, he was not talking shit, he is researching into the issue, and even made some really cool promotions on steam (that made sales skyrocket… he told the media that he got more money when he discounted L4D to 25 USD than what he got at launch, and mind you, I said more money, not more units).
But you are right, people that have a machine that can run Crysis have money to buy it… Maybe this is why all the piracy dealers that I asked about Crysis sales told me that it suck… Then Crytek come and pull from their ass that they don’t sold because of piracy… How is that? It was not selling even pirated…
criadordejogos.wordpress.com
@ Speeder
Sorry, but piracy is theft, period.
You’re not arguing for the downtrodden here. People that are out there downloading Modern Warfare already own a PC capable of running sophisticated games with high-end rendering and enough storage space to keep them on their PC. Somehow I doubt they have holes in their shoes, trouble paying their bills, and little enough spare change to afford software for that expensive PC.
That’s like saying you own a Ferarri but can’t afford the price of gas. It’s laughable.
As for the pirates you’re describing that physically alter existing games and sell them as new products – that’s even worse.
My favorite, though, is when you say…
"I am only saying that corporations instead of going around suing their ass or installing DRM, they should go chaper games and make games that don’t need you to crack the legal version…"
Sorry, but the games you like to play ARE NOT cheap to make, and the profit margins already in place are quite slim. Lowering the price of games – in the hope of selling more – is neither a viable solution or a good one.
What may be interesting for you to hear is that people making games have considered the option, but that it has some very real consequences. Aside from the increased financial risk, there’s an odd psychology involved. When people see a game marked down in price, they take it as an indication of quality or value, i.e. that game isn’t as expensive as the others so it must not be as good, or it must not be selling well (which means its not as good) and so they lowered the price, all of which detracts from sales not helps them.
It’s just not that simple. But one thing is. Don’t take what doesn’t belong to you.
Probably because being "pro piracy" means you’re a dick. Please pay for your entertainment. Thanks.
Sorry, in my haste I had little time to read over your post properly; or even think about mine. I really shouldn’t have posted to begin with but for some reason felt the need to submit a reply before dashing out. 😛
Anyway, don’t have time now either for a proper response. Have to go again.
Don’t worry their responses, anyone who even looks like they are pro piracy gets heated responses.
I never stated that they were right, ot that it was not a crime…
I am only saying that corporations instead of going around suing their ass or installing DRM, they should go chaper games and make games that don’t need you to crack the legal version…
Why not buy and crack it? Because most of people don’t know how to do it.
I am with the industry too, if you look my signature, "criador de jogos" mean "game maker" in portuguese, and I believe in the same stuff that Gabe Newell (from Valve) belives, that piracy results from two things: evil people (happily the minority), that will not buy your game anyway, and poorly attended costumers. If that poorly attended costumers get attended properly, the piracy decreases naturally.
I am not saying that people have the right to have luxury and so that they have right to pirate luxury, I am saying that companies to sell more should make better and cheaper luxury, instead of sueing everyone.
criadordejogos.wordpress.com
I’m for the industry here.
I really hate the argument that some can’t afford it, so they deserve the right to steal it. No matter your reasons, theft is theft, and I’d hate to think what the world would be like if everything was as easily obtainable as a pirated game.
And I also hate the argument that some pirate because they feel that they then have something more "reliable". Why can’t they buy the game and then crack it? That’s even more reliable and not stealing.
Oops, have to go. Can’t finish.
Last i checked, counterfeiting was still illegal… fact is, they are getting something for free what others spent a great deal of time and money to create. Pirating gives them absolutely no compensation for the entertainment they are providing for you… Movies, games, music, and so forth; nobody "needs" these things, as they are luxuries. You can make that argument for food, water, clothing, and so on, but not entertainment. People got by just fine before the days of movies and video games and they can do so again; there are other ways to entertain yourselves… not to mention that if they have internet access then there is quiet a bit they can find online that can entertain them.
When people cannot pirate, they probably would just get freeware and open source games.
The reason why people that pirate would not buy, are the actual reasons that they pirate, yes, there are some people that pirate only for the sake of, and some do it because it is free, but the majority of the pirates that I know, pirate because they needed to do so…
In some places the games are not sold legally, or they are bizarrely expensive (60 USD is already expensive, probably more than half of the population of the world use 60 USD to eat in a entire month, and because of importation taxes, all poor countries that don’t have game factories have to import games, that thus rise in price even more).
Also, sometimes pirated games give better support, WAAAY better support, see Winning Eleven, the legal versions is not widely sold to all countries, and support is only in english or japanese (or some other european languages), also nearly all stores don’t accept returns… So we have pirate dealers that sell pirated Winning Eleven (and accept returns), and not even a "normal" version, they sell properly localized versions, translated, with local teams, some give their personal phone numbers to costumers in case they need support, and the best of all, none of the stuff that these dealers sell, have computer-damaging DRM.
Yes, removing copyright totally IS extreme, people should have the right to ask other people money for their work, but syaing that pirating is "stealing" (it is not, it is counterfeiting), or that that are pirates are evil criminal people, or that all them would buy games in case they were not allowed to pirate, are wrong arguments in my opinion.
criadordejogos.wordpress.com
Let me get this straight – you think that it’s okay to steal a game because they didn’t make a demo for it? That’s like saying I can rob a bank because they didn’t give me money.
People who pirate a game aren’t going to buy it afterwards, you dumbass.
—
Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone’s feelings.
Well it can also be bundled with the "I want to make sure the game I am thinking of buying is good, but they don’t offer a demo" defense.
Really what annoys me is how suddenly trying a game without buying it is a crime, I mean I visit friends paces and test out games for free all the time, if I like it or love it I could become a diehard fan and go out and buy the game and even merchandise if I like it that much. But if the game is a load of bull I am glad I tried it out first so I didn’t waste my money. The market is saturated with software and media of horrendous quality, but when I find a gem I support it.
Ah, the old "It’s OK to steal something because I can’t afford it" defense.
I never used to agree with the war on drugs until I met you, Zippy.
Seriously, though, your replies infuriate me, so I can only imagine how much you freetards pissed off a person who actually makes games. Do that enough, and we can all forget about games and go play a nice game of f*cking darts. Wouldn’t that be nice?
And I hate darts.
Relevance?
Can you explain your counter ‘argument’ to those of us who only think logically?
Troll. That is all.
If you’re not comfortable teaching children about right and wrong, you can always – instead – do something about the person selling them an illegal copy of a game.
But hey, I wouldn’t want to oversimplify this issue for you. You clearly love overly-dramatic and hyperbolic global conspiracy.
Convince a 10 year old child that don’t find the game on store but find on a nearby street to do that. So simple.
criadordejogos.wordpress.com
Stop stealing. So simple.
Drugs=copies you can’t make large swats of society criminal and not have disastrous repercussions, the war on copying will be more vile and intrusive than the war on drugs…….
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
Actually, I think pot is awesome and should be legal.
But theft is not. And if – by writing off 30% or more of the world – you mean people who steal games, then yes, I write them off, because they’re thieves.
And if fighting theft makes me a moron, than I guess I’m happy to be one. Enjoy your hyperbole, it means nothing.
Your point is clear, you don’t care you don’t think you just want file shearing,fair use,ect to be made unreasonably illegal like pot because your core belief goes against logic and reason.
You can not write off 30% of more of the world just cause they don’t consume the way you want them to.
I mean seriously its morons like you that will make file shearing prisons/concentration camps happen before its a 25-50$ common speeding/running redlight like fine.
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
"Wow so if a game is "stolen" it steals all that money you made while working 9 to 5 on it?
I don’t think so you make a game for people not for money…"
I’m sorry, but do I have to explain the broken and utterly ridiculous nature of that quote?
I make games for money. Period. I am lucky to work in this industry and have a job that I’m passionate about, and I absolutely kill myself to give people something that is worth every penny they pay for their games, because I care about customers more than you’ll ever know. I’m one too.
But this is a business. Not a charity.
And yes, when people steal games instead of paying for them, it very much kills the 9-to-5, because companies have to lay off employees, shut down, Publishers abandon genres and platforms, and worst of all, it absolutely kills innovation, because nobody wants to take risks and try new things when they’re not profitable enough to do so, or when the negative economic impact of failure and piracy can be so devastating.
"…deal with that train of thought instead of saying "wai wai wai I deserve more because I am "special"!111""
Never said I was special or that I deserved anything MORE than what I (and the rest of the industry, including Developers, Publishers, Retailers, and Console Manufacturers) am entitled to, which is fair and legal compensation for the games you play, i.e. DON’T STEAL FUCKING GAMES.
Theft is theft. Plain and simple. No justifying it.
And with that, I’m done with you. Truthfully, you stopped making sense a long time ago and I think my point is clear and well beyond a dead horse. Please make more sense in the future.
Wow so if a game is "stolen" it steals all that money you made while working 9 to 5 on it?
I don’t think so you make a game for people not for money, deal with that train of thought instead of saying "wai wai wai I deserve more because I am "special"!111" when you are nothing more than part of a small number of society who wields more power than most. You are part of us good sir not above us.
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
"If that means some do not buy it but consume it they are the same as those who did not care to consume it in the first place…"
Sorry, no. You’re 100% wrong. There is a monumental difference between people that have no interest in playing a certain game – and so they don’t buy it – and people that do, and so they steal it. One of those owes me nothing. The other owes me money.
With all due respect, there’s no point in arguing with you. You’re trying to justify theft. You can talk all you want about "inspirational media" and "free trade among individuals" but that’s all a bullshit way of justifying immoral and illegal theft of someone else’s work.
Again, I do not make games for free. You probably don’t work for free either. If you’re going to play my games, please pay me. If its in a bargain bin selling for $1, please pay the retailer. If you’re buying it used and I see nothing, please pay the retailer still. Point being, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING gives you the right to take something that doesn’t belong to you, consume it, and distribute it, without compensating the people involved in creating and bringing that product to the public. Period.
"
Okay, I think I understand you better, but again…
Why are you taking my game, sharing it with you friends (albeit, based on your caveat, at a financial loss to you), and not compensating me?
How in your right mind do you justify that? It’s theft.
Clearly you’ve never experienced somebody’s attempt to justify stealing from you, or benefiting from your work without paying you.
Perhaps you think this is cute and lolcat, etc. But this is a serious issue and frankly, my feelings are a more honest expression of how people in the industry feel about this than you realize.
The only reason that this kind of flaming anger isn’t plastered all over the place is because – in a decidely perverse and unholy way – it seems to encourage dickheads to go and steal some more, so everybody keeps quiet.
Despite all Valve’s "kind and tempered" perspective toward pirates, you’re fooling yourself if you don’t think Gabe Newell would kick one in the teeth if he got a chance.
"
To put it as simply as I can , "because you are making something for the public and the public the people of the world will judge it thusly".If that means some do not buy it but consume it they are the same as those who did not care to consume it in the first place, you can only split hairs so fair until all thats split is nothing but imposable ideals.
We as humanity can balance things out to protect profit while allowing healthy forms of free trade of information,media and such because copy right is becoming incoehrantly problematic to the individual .
I do not mind the idea of a 10% tax on media devices,the internet and PC hardware, I do not mind the idea of bootleggers(or those who gain illicit profit) treated as drug sellers I do not even mind copy right becoming infinite and traded amugst CP owners like any other contract as long as the people can gain that informational and inspirational media via trading it as individuals.
Edit
If money rules youer world so much you easily stress out over it then perhaps you need a new line of work, media is something that is inherently shared to the world at the end of the day yes one can make money off it but such scheming defaults to herding cats more often than not.
<hr>
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
Okay, I think I understand you better, but again…
Why are you taking my game, sharing it with you friends (albeit, based on your caveat, at a financial loss to you), and not compensating me?
How in your right mind do you justify that? It’s theft.
@ Stealthguy
Clearly you’ve never experienced somebody’s attempt to justify stealing from you, or benefiting from your work without paying you.
Perhaps you think this is cute and lolcat, etc. But this is a serious issue and frankly, my feelings are a more honest expression of how people in the industry feel about this than you realize.
The only reason that this kind of flaming anger isn’t plastered all over the place is because – in a decidely perverse and unholy way – it seems to encourage dickheads to go and steal some more, so everybody keeps quiet.
Despite all Valve’s "kind and tempered" perspective toward pirates, you’re fooling yourself if you don’t think Gabe Newell would kick one in the teeth if he got a chance.
Stealthguy
His gripes and anguish are reasonable and frankly while harsh his words are not crass and contemptible.
What I am trying to get at is the world is made of people and their rights and needs need to be balanced.
He is obviously against anything that dose not distribute money into the hands of the CP owners, I am pro file shearing ,with a huge caveat ,if the individual can manage the cost of shearing that file without making anything off it. If you place the burden of shearing on the public as a completely free user supported thing that can not trade money and then via world wide support and police it as such you would close down more than 50% of file shearing and make it something difficult to organize around thus making it a more personal and individual thing those who have the time and know how and money will do.
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
"But they do not always make a profit thus why you have bargain bins randomly full of day 1 games, and because you can not force every one to buy them you also can not force the public to willing use the retail chains. Life goes on without the CP owner and the retail chain it lives and ies on the whims of the public who are sadly to dumb to care about what they spend their money on."
Not sure where you live, but where I come from, Halo 3 is not in the bargain bin on "day 1", nor have I ever seen a bargain bin full of new releases. But your point here seems to be that one cannot force people to be honest, which is true. Not sure how that’s a defense of piracy or an argument against it, as much as you’re just stating the obvious.
"A purpose of trying to make something of contrast black and white, as I said it dose not work like that."
Theft is wrong. My games are not free. There, I’ve made it simple.
"If one can not gain the attention of the public with their wares they have no right to complain that life is unfair you made a bad product that was not supported, get over it."
I’m sorry, but I’m having real trouble with this logic. It doesn’t make sense. This is not about "awareness". This is about a right to compensation for media consumed. It has nothing to do with product quality, and if you knew what games I have made and been involved with, that statement would make even less sense.
Pirates are not stealing the games no one wants. They’re stealing the games everybody wants. Piracy tends to be a larger problem for the better games, not the worse ones. If anything, piracy is a majorative problem for the people who deserve it the least.
"Well thats the cost of business its not my fault you made a product the industry was not interested in its not my fault that people did not notice it its not my fault you were unable to sale it."
Actually, it is your fault. Because my games have consistently reviewed very well and people definitely know about them. But assholes with an internet connection seem convinced that there’s nothing wrong with simply taking them. That’s the issue – not my (or anyone else’s) ability to market our games effectively.
As for the rest of your message, I’m really having trouble understanding what you’re trying to say. You’re all over the place. Best I can tell, you’re trying to argue that file sharing is fine as long as the people sharing the files aren’t doing it for a profit. WRONG. If you steal my game, I don’t care how many friends you give it to "for free". It’s still theft.
There is no middle ground. It will never be okay to take what doesn’t belong to you.
**Edited to remove some of my flaming. Sorry, but this is not abstract for me. I feel as though I deserve to be angry, but don’t want to be a dick if I can avoid it.
Really is that nessarry? Your getting a little too heated for a simple discusion. If you don’t want to be civil go some place else while I imagine your crying face for every game that’s downloaded online.
"Retailers are a part of the value chain and even if something is in price protection (what you seem to be implying) or is being sold used or at a discount, it’s still a commercial product deserving of legitimate purchase. Do I really need to explain this to you?"
But they do not always make a profit thus why you have bargain bins randomly full of day 1 games, and because you can not force every one to buy them you also can not force the public to willing use the retail chains. Life goes on without the CP owner and the retail chain it lives and ies on the whims of the public who are sadly to dumb to care about what they spend their money on.
"Let’s not balk at "high dollar words" just because you don’t understand them. They have a purpose." A purpose of trying to make something of contrast black and white, as I said it dose not work like that.
"In addition, lets not make content creators an abstract victim by painting them as "corporations" or (as is popularly suggested) wealthy greedy pricks who do just fine without your hard earned dollar/s." If one can not gain the attention of the public with their wares they have no right to complain that life is unfair you made a bad product that was not supported, get over it.
"
Lets put this in real terms.
I make video games. I’ve been doing so for almost two decades. And when you steal MY GAMES – games I HAVE POURED MY LIFE AND HEART INTO – you rob ME. Not some nameless, soulless, faceless corporation. ME. You steal MY work and REFUSE to pay ME. You cripple my ability to build my business, generate profit and expand my operations, reward myself and my employees, keep my employees, and simply keep my company IN business. I spend years of my life working on a single game, it gets great reviews, followed by massive downloads on places like The Pirate Bay, alongside poor PC sales, combined with server data that gives me INARGUABLE evidence of lost revenue, and you want ME to be okay with that because YOU can’t be bothered to PAY for the entertainment you consume?
Oh go fuck yourself. You’re a thief, plain and simple.
This is my JOB. I don’t do this so that you and millions of other bittorrent users can PONDER whether or not you think the price of my game is worthy of your financial contribution. So that you can make laborous arguments about the price of games, your economic status, unethical "try before you buy" suggestions, or your nerd rage over DRM.
Maybe you work for free, but I sure as hell don’t. I have a family to feed, bills to pay, and many other people to look after that depend on legitimate sales to sustain their careers. The PC market is a mess and – no surprise – pirates refuse to accept any blame, whilst they play all of these games without paying for them. No honor among thieves, etc.
I’m tempted to go on, but I think the point is clear. There is NO justification for software or data theft of any kind, and it’s not an invulnerable corporate giant that you’re attacking when you do such things. It’s ME.
So please, by all means, explain to me why you think it’s okay to steal from ME.
""
Well thats the cost of business its not my fault you made a product the industry was not interested in its not my fault that people did not notice it its not my fault you were unable to sale it.
There are 2 separate issues here what can be sold and what can not be sold, by all means the profit streams should be protected however at the same time the public needs to be protected from abuse from above and the only way to do that is allow copy circumvention ,copying,back ups and personal archiving and file trading as long as its done in non profit settings. Look at the net 90% of file sharing sites are FOR PROFIT be it ad rev,donations or subscriptions they are beyond contempt. However because the discussion is all or nothing my right vrs your right, my ideal vrs your ideal the power of near infinite lobbying organizations vrs the fickle interests of the public that allows patent trolls to propagate that changes the fundamentals of copy right to become a infinite right of the highest bidder. The quickest and most effective way to balance things out is to look to the individual.And since there are more consumers than creators and even less multi CP owners you have to default to the rights of the individual consumer.
What I am getting at everyone is arguing for one side but no one really wants to find middle ground.
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
"There are a few instances where the makers make no money whole sale titles that are never sold at retail price and sold at a loss at a loss until you find in on clearance for 10$ or less. Or Used titles for half the going rate. It seems to me you think everything goes into CP owners pockets via legal channels when that is simply is not the case. So you get the people that rarely buy and don’t buy and are looking for a way out and who do not mind literally working by spending time and effort to make the illegitimate stuff work."
Please, please, please make sense. Please.
Retailers are a part of the value chain and even if something is in price protection (what you seem to be implying) or is being sold used or at a discount, it’s still a commercial product deserving of legitimate purchase. Do I really need to explain this to you?
"You are trying to make something thats full of contrast black and white, that ain’t going to happen no matter how high dollar your words are. And I say tough sht to the corporations they do not rule the populaces of the world and will never legitimately supersede their right to free,open and un altered information and inspiration through media the sooner they learn that lessen the better off we all will be."
Let’s not balk at "high dollar words" just because you don’t understand them. They have a purpose.
In addition, lets not make content creators an abstract victim by painting them as "corporations" or (as is popularly suggested) wealthy greedy pricks who do just fine without your hard earned dollar/s.
Lets put this in real terms.
I make video games. I’ve been doing so for almost two decades. And when you steal MY GAMES – games I HAVE POURED MY LIFE AND HEART INTO – you rob ME. Not some nameless, soulless, faceless corporation. ME. You steal MY work and REFUSE to pay ME. You cripple my ability to build my business, generate profit and expand my operations, reward myself and my employees, keep my employees, and simply keep my company IN business. I spend years of my life working on a single game, it gets great reviews, followed by massive downloads on places like The Pirate Bay, alongside poor PC sales, combined with server data that gives me INARGUABLE evidence of lost revenue, and you want ME to be okay with that because YOU can’t be bothered to PAY for the entertainment you consume?
Oh go fuck yourself. You’re a thief, plain and simple.
This is my JOB. I don’t do this so that you and millions of other bittorrent users can PONDER whether or not you think the price of my game is worthy of your financial contribution. So that you can make laborous arguments about the price of games, your economic status, unethical "try before you buy" suggestions, or your nerd rage over DRM.
Maybe you work for free, but I sure as hell don’t. I have a family to feed, bills to pay, and many other people to look after that depend on legitimate sales to sustain their careers. The PC market is a mess and – no surprise – pirates refuse to accept any blame, whilst they play all of these games without paying for them. No honor among thieves, etc.
I’m tempted to go on, but I think the point is clear. There is NO justification for software or data theft of any kind, and it’s not an invulnerable corporate giant that you’re attacking when you do such things. It’s ME.
So please, by all means, explain to me why you think it’s okay to steal from ME.
Gaming Observer
There are a few instances where the makers make no money whole sale titles that are never sold at retail price and sold at a loss at a loss until you find in on clearance for 10$ or less. Or Used titles for half the going rate. It seems to me you think everything goes into CP owners pockets via legal channels when that is simply is not the case. So you get the people that rarely buy and don’t buy and are looking for a way out and who do not mind literally working by spending time and effort to make the illegitimate stuff work.
You are trying to make something thats full of contrast black and white, that ain’t going to happen no matter how high dollar your words are. And I say tough sht to the corporations they do not rule the populaces of the world and will never legitimately supersede their right to free,open and un altered information and inspiration through media the sooner they learn that lessen the better off we all will be.
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
asmodai
A new business model is needed, I believe in the next 20 or so years we will have full streaming and thus if you want the most up to date content you’ll have to get it from authorized sources making owning media moot and making backing up data no matter what it be a niche in a niche in a niche so letting the people share data through nonprofit/unprofitable means is inherently harmless since the industry provides more convenience which is always trump free. Also a reinvention of copy right and the rules of that govern what people may do with it, the current rules on copying and distribution is woefully antiquated and contradicting for these times. We need clearer real world rules that can be followed that don’t make a large swath of the public criminal.
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
True enough. But whether or not its a problem that can be solved, and whether or not its right, are two different issues. Whether or not its right is what I’m arguing here.
There are productive and practical solutions to the actual act of piracy, which is something I wouldn’t bother arguing with anybody. Personally I’m in favor of games that require a persistent connection, even if they don’t seem to justify it, i.e. C&C4. People can decry that all they want, but it solves the problem. Be connected, be legit, or don’t play. I like Steam for that very reason, though an MMO is probably a better example.
The mentality of software pirates and the moral argument is the more interesting problem.
This is probably the only instance or type of theft wherein the thieves themselves feel (and indeed argue themselves to be) morally entitled to stealing games because of their price, condition, quality, DRM, etc. – and actually seem to be looking for some form of acceptance of their practice.
The problem your rapidly approaching, Gaming Observer, is that piracy (the casual filesharing without profit as opposed to mass production for sale) is so ubiquitous and unremarkable that it is literally becoming "the way things are".
If a problem like piracy can’t be solved by enforcement/deterrents/IP protection methods, then a new business model needs to be thought up. This includes ease of delivery to the end user and products coming out as bug free as possible. I have bought a lot of games on Steam as spur of the moment purchases on a Saturday night, for example.
Mebbe this involves middlemen being cut out of the equation or taking a chop in profits, mebbe it involves more attractive deals or more advertisement of digital delivery, but piracy isn’t going away any time soon. Everyone doing it doesn’t make it right, it just makes it nigh on impossible to stop.
@ StickBoy
Noooooooooooo shit.
All I am saying is between the near absolute power the media industry wields, the haphazard and incoherent power the public wields you need to level CP make it so if anything CP’d is traded for money or money is gained through shareing it has to be done so through proper channels if not its illegal. If its traded in purely non profit venues and this includes reviews,criticisms,parodies and even derived works(fan fiction,fan games,ect) or fan sites there is NOTHING the media mafia can do to bully them to change or stop other than buy them out.
What is so inherently wrong with this ideal? It allows the public freedom to copy/circumvent copy protection as needed/back up/archive and lend and allows corporate to go after anything that pushes money without a license.
late edit
Limit copy right to 10 years and force the property into public domain and extend trade marks, by extending trade marks you allow a quality company to continue to work on a profitable IP and be easily recognized by the public and supported thusly.
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
Which brings to mind why we have rules over copying,parody and distribution because 100+ years ago one could not distribute without making without wanting to make a profit. In the digital age where electronic impulses are traded like thought in incomprehensible numbers there is no clear and present danger to profit unless you are a conglomerated monopoly looking to further your bottom line without working to do so. I will say profit streams do need protected but if its outside the realm of direct profit its an individual right that should be protected.
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
The problem with the comparison of "stealing" an electronic digitized item and a physical item is that a physical item is produced in limited supply, even if the number is in the millions, it’s still a limited supply, and by taking or purchasing 1, you actually reduce the number of available physical items by 1. Once it’s gone, it’s gone, by fair means or foul.
The digitized product, on the other hand, can feasibly be infinite. Putting serial codes in the product MIGHT place a limitation on how many individual copies are available. But even so, the software can be altered to free up more available copies. To free up more available copies of a physical item, you actually have to build the item, creating another physical item. Even a DVD that is produced by copying a digital image to it still has to have a physical item produced.
The argument has also become complicated because of:
1. A single individual having to purchase multiple licenses for a single product they wish to use on multiple machines of their own (a computer in the den, their laptop, the kid’s computer, etc).
2. The long standing ability to record various forms of media to recordable devices for one’s own use later (how many times did you watch a particular movie with different people, who didn’t pay to producer/et al to watch that movie?).
3. Sale of used products, whether at something as simple as a yard sale or with a business that purchases or accepts trade-ins of used media for resale.
4. Excessively high prices for new media. Like it or not, the "I can’t afford something like that"/"I want to play it but wouldn’t pay a price like that" argument IS valid in the eyes of those who make the argument, whether anyone else finds it a valid argument or not. Prices seem to be as much controlled by a popularity consest as much as the quality of the product itself. But that’s true of a great many products. Of course, it’s also true that a great many products come with generic/no brand name comparible products. While some games have their "X-clones" (such as the "GTA-clones"), you can’t exactly find the same in the way of movies or TV shows.
Still, in the end, having a PSA comparing someone pocketing a DVD in a store to someone who is in a darkened room downloading a digital copy of a movie or game shows a pretty poor attempt to mislead a sometimes lesser informed populace. How about they show someone pocketing a DVD in a store versus someone trading in a game and someone else buying that used game, and have the creator of the game stand there with their face in their hands crying because they didn’t get a share in that resale.
Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000
Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl
Copy right needs to be made as simple as possible and that basically separates what the public dose with CP/IP in a non profit setting and what is done for profit. Obviously for profit needs that chain of command to sort the revenue stream to its proper owners.
This puts less restrictions on individual reviewers,bloggers, critics, fan sites and archive or other sites however the instant you try and make any money off it you become for profit and are beholdant to the the profit chain and the CP owners. Separate what is done for the sake of profit, what requires a profit to run(and thus is marginalized to the whims of the industry and what it will allow) and those that do not profit from it.
edit
I had a great thought, in this world of brands and merchandising can someone sell their brand thats divvied from a shearing site…anobvious answer is no but…. I hate being obvious..coherent and sane :P.
Well if its bought out by the media industry thats an obvious yes because the CP rules would be followed, a longer answer could be yes if the organization splits into 2 separate organizations that do not share owners,partners or revenue. Bascily it means the "brand" is separate from the site and may live or die freely on its own market value.
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
"There have been multiple studies that indicate that piracy does not hurt sales and some to show that in may benefit sales."
There are also plenty of studies that try to suggest that violent video games encourage aggressive behavior, but we don’t buy that either do we? Cite and link the study or leave this argument behind. To say that piracy does not hurt sales is just plain bullshit. There are without a doubt millions of people that steal simply because they can, and the impact on games has been shown countless times.
"There isn’t any proven connection between piracy and lost sales."
Similarly, there’s no data to prove or reason to believe that piracy converts people from thieves to buyers, while the connection between piracy and lost revenues is intrinsic. Pirates steal software that somebody is entitled to be paid for. They play it. They enjoy it. They owe the creator money for it and will never give it to them. That’s a lost sale, and thievery.
Dig up Infinity Ward’s public statments on the piracy of Modern Warfare. There’s a disproportionate amount of people actively playing that game that did not – and never will – pay for a legitimate copy. Those are lost sales, and thievery.
"Many people use piracy to explore games/movies/music that they otherwise wouldn’t be able to get, either because of their budget or their income. Yes they now have something that other people paid for but there aren’t any less of those things and when they do have money to spend or it does become available to them they may support it when before they would never have known it would have existed. I currently have a favorite band. I own all their albums and have seen them live twice. The first place I ever heard their music was from a downloaded mp3 years ago. If not for P2P sharing I would never have bothered to support them. In this case file sharing didn’t prevent a sale it created many."
I’m sorry, but lack of income is NOT a reason to steal something, regardless of whether or not there’s a physical reduction of physical inventory. You’re not phsyically "removing" anything when you break into Disneyland and enjoy all the rides for free, but that’s wrong too. Pay for your entertainment, please.
As for your "In this case file sharing didn’t prevent a sale it created many" blurb, I’d like to know how many hundreds of songs you downloaded that you DID NOT then pay for, because I’m absolutely 100% certain that – while this particular band appreciates your patronage – your ripped off a long list of others that you didn’t support in the same way and never will. Which makes you a thief.
You can make all the arguments you want (which pirates usually do) about those songs not being good enough, or not deserving your money, that you didn’t like them, and that you only feel comfortable paying for the things you do like or that deserve your money. It’s an interesting argument that almost acuses the arist of being morally in the wrong by not making a song you liked, and therefore stealing is an appropriate response, regardless of just how subjective that can be. But the plain and simple fact is, you took their music without paying for it, which – again – makes you a thief.
"When the industry equates every pirated copy to a lost sale they sound like a bunch of horses asses to anyone with a shred of technological knowledge."
You must have traded moral decency and a conscience for your technical knowledge, because you’re actually an even bigger horses ass – of the most dispicable kind. The commonly retarded view that data – being infinite and not physical or finite – has no relative value, is simply gradeschool. Data is physical. In all cases, it’s a work product – an orchestrated result of time, effort, talent, creativity, and commerce – and you’re consuming it without compensating its creators. Regardless of whether or not "there’s more where that came from", it certainly won’t continue to stock pile when people refuse to support the businesses behind them. There’s no reconciling that. Pirates brought the music industry to its knees, and they’re diligently chipping away at the adult entertainment industry, movies, and video games. What THE FUCK do you honestly think the result will be? People are going to lose their jobs you hack moron. Content volume will decrease. Are you just HOPING that for every song you download, someone else will pay for it so the band can stay in business? Are you that dumb?
"I suppose that’s why when they go to trial they screen out any jurors with knowlege of P2P networks and software. It makes it easy for them to misrepresent the impact and get silly garbage like $80,000 per song verdicts."
I’ve got plenty of knowledge of P2P networks and software and I’d find you (and them) guilty in a heartbeat. This is not a matter of technical ignorance, its a matter of common fucking sense. People make a game – if you’re going to play it, PAY THEM FOR IT! If you’re not going to play it, only want to try it, can’t afford it, etc. – TOUGH SHIT! These are not valid reasons for STEALING. Not liking the price of a given product is not a valid reason for STEALING IT.
The "Pirate Party" might as well wear the dunce hat because their entire premise is absolutely disgusting, as are the people that agree with them and look to rationalize this kind of behavior.
There have been multiple studies that indicate that piracy does not hurt sales and some to show that in may benefit sales. I believe that is what Robinson is referring to when he stated that it has no proven impact. There isn’t any proven connection between piracy and lost sales.
Many people use piracy to explore games/movies/music that they otherwise wouldn’t be able to get, either because of their budget or their income. Yes they now have something that other people paid for but there aren’t any less of those things and when they do have money to spend or it does become available to them they may support it when before they would never have known it would have existed. I currently have a favorite band. I own all their albums and have seen them live twice. The first place I ever heard their music was from a downloaded mp3 years ago. If not for P2P sharing I would never have bothered to support them. In this case file sharing didn’t prevent a sale it created many.
When the industry equates every pirated copy to a lost sale they sound like a bunch of horses asses to anyone with a shred of technological knowledge. I suppose that’s why when they go to trial they screen out any jurors with knowlege of P2P networks and software. It makes it easy for them to misrepresent the impact and get silly garbage like $80,000 per song verdicts.
I don’t know where you get your information on Somalian pirates, but you are so wrong it’s not even funny. What you call the ‘Volunteer Coastal Defense Force’ are actually called ‘National Volunteer Coast Guard’, but that’s not the point here. They call themselves that to seem legitimate. I mean…god, I can’t even believe you fell for that. Many many militias, rebel groups, etc. have called themselves names like that. I could make a pirate group off the coast of California and call it the ‘Northwest American Coast Guard’, makes it sound real official doesn’t it?
Yes, there is no denying that there has been dumping (which was through a contract signed with Somalian warlords, not that that makes it any better) and illegal fishing, but these people have been hijacking/attacking boats that aren’t anywhere near their coast and then ransoming people.
Both sides are in the wrong, but don’t try to deny that they are pirates, that is what they are.
My Name is Guybrush Threepwood and I want to be a pirate.
I think this approach is exactly right, limiting copyright to 30 years max makes the most sense to me.
But theft is theft any way you slice it. Wait ’til Zippy wakes up and we’re fed fit to bursting with his paranoid conspiracy BS.
Btw: Copyright don’t last a century…
It last a century AFTER the last author died.
So if a author lives 100 years after making the work (possible… rare, but possible), the copyright will last two centuries.
criadordejogos.wordpress.com
I really don’t think that copyright needs to be done entirely away with, but the fact that a copyright lasts well over a century is what I find ridiculous. I would really prefer if it lasted say 15 or 20 years. This would allow greater amounts of creativity based off someone’s work, at least then people who were around when something was popular are still alive.
My main problem with copyright is that it is being used unfairly by huge corporations. I honestly worry about when they start knocking on your door about that movie you showed your friends last night. I realize that it is a little extreme of a thought, but technically I think it might be a breach of copyright to let other people watch a movie, listen to music, or play a game you bought without permission, and that would be awful.
Long before pirating on the internet people did do things like lend a tape to someone to watch, or borrow a book without permission, but is that really so bad? No, it is actually how most books and music becomes more widely known and popular. If it gains that status it will make money, isn’t that what matters the money you actually make not the theoretical internet money?
hence why I said well over a century
Agreed. I once read (PCG I think) that if everyone pirated video games then the industry would be gone in six months. It’s theft, plain and simple. "But I wouldn’t buy it anyway" doesn’t work in my opinion – if you’re sat around, bored out of your mind, then you may feel like paying for entertainment. Just because, in the alternative path that you download it, that doesn’t really mean you would have found something else to do.
Yes, they know that piracy allow poor people have acess to culture, and that the new law will make new jobs safer, because we will not have those trademark and patent trolls closing down other smaller companies, that employ more people in total, than the big companies (that employ a bunch in one company, but overall is much less).
criadordejogos.wordpress.com
"…doesn’t have any proven implications"
What a crock of shite. They know *exactly* that piracy directly affects real peoples lives and job security.
Mind you, that would never happen, because in Somalia what people are calling "pirates" are called "Volunteer Coastal Defense Force" and what people call "pirating" involved mostly driving away all foreign ships, specially the ones that are dumping stuff on Somali sea (don’t say that this don’t happen, nuclear junk showed on their beaches, and England for example sent a ship filled with Junk to Brazil, junk that is: pooed papers and broken fridges among other stuff), and the ones that are using Somali seas to circunvent the international laws on fishing, fishing industrially more than the nature can replace, making Somali fisherman have problem in getting fish to themselves.
But in the end, both somali pirates, and pirate party, have the same objective.
criadordejogos.wordpress.com
I’d love to see the Somali Pirate Party.
Which is precisely what the other side doesn’t want.