Video Games Are Dead, Part 2

August 18, 2009 -

Part 2 of Video Games are Dead, Scott Steinberg's short documentary look into the future of the game biz, has dropped.

While it's unclear why this needed to be a two-parter, there were a couple of good lines:

We have too many people who have a love of money in our industry. We need more people who have a love of art, who have a love for the act of creating games.  -Chris Taylor, Gas-Powered Games

 

Game publishers and the retailers, they should come to some kind of agreement about how to make [used game sales] happen so it doesn't really hurt the developers. But at the same time consumers have their own rights and to pull games out of the reach of many consumers is actually not a good idea. -Dean Takahashi, VentureBeat

Catch Part 1 here...


Comments

Re: Video Games Are Dead, Part 2

I haven't been around a long while, but this is an interesting story.

Re: Video Games Are Dead, Part 2

I do agree that too many push hard to get a game out fast so it can turn a profit, and and pay no mind to quality. I mean, it is reasonable for the head of a publisher to have the business sense ot make the company profitable, but when it gets to where that's ALL that matters, especially a largely art driven industry, then you're doing something wrong

Re: Video Games Are Dead, Part 2

THey could fix some of these issues if they allow for alot of work to continue after the launch of a title up to 6 or 8 months fully befor really getting into anything else.


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

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http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Video Games Are Dead, Part 2

Because then people (yourself included) complain about paying full price for a broken game and having to patch it later to make it work.

/b

Re: Video Games Are Dead, Part 2

So its better to be stuck with 2 broken games than 1 fixed one?

 

I don't mind patches I welcome them it beats owning a broken game, hell offer a SE edition with all the patches and upgrades a year later for 29.99 even that makes it worth while to buy a game again.

Some will buy it when it drops some will buy both some will only buy the finished product its a better solution than no solution solution we now have......


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Video Games Are Dead, Part 2

The losses are temporary things are getting better and in another year it will reflect it game sales. But this is a good thing as its forcing the industry to rethink if just for a moment about the cost of production. If they fail to really do something about the insane drive for best graphics it will kill off part of the game industry...


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Video Games Are Dead, Part 2

>If they fail to really do something about the insane drive for best graphics

This much, I agree with- cloud computing-based services like OnLive strike me as a way of continuing this, when really the industry should be embracing the impending power-limits of home devices as a way of reeling in dev budgets- or at least spending them somewhere more intelligently than brute forcing polycounts.

/b

Re: Video Games Are Dead, Part 2

Beemoh

And whats worse you lose most of the game when the server is pulled.

The game industry needs to get back to using what is readily and cheaply available peer connections with the assistance of pub driven servers so that the burdens are not full placed on either the publisher or the gamer.

I understand that graphics are important but really "good enough is good enough" you don;t have to waste performance  or mechanic polishing for it.


Now about pricing rant if a say EB/GS makes a deal with  a publisher to give them a 25% cut of the game the publisher takes 15-20% off th4e game price EB/GS takes 10-15% off the game price you have new game prices that are 30% lower and this will drive sales and allow for publishers tog et in on used game profits, everyone wins in this scenario no?.


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Video Games Are Dead, Part 2

I really have to disagree with Dean. 

There is no reason for retailers and publishers to make a deal on used games. None.

Every other industry in this world has found some way to just deal with the used market. For most of them, the used market is just a subsection of thier risk assessment. Instead of whining and complaining about the used market, they find ways to compensate for it without trying to go after used sales directly.

One of the biggest reasons that the used market thrives so easily in the games industry is the fact that games are developed with short lifespans. Most games don't stay on the shelf at retailers for more than 6-12 months unless they are extremely hot games. I think if the games industry wants to compensate for used games they need to extend the shelf life of games.

The next biggest reason is that many games have little replay value. This is huge. How many times have you watched a movie a second, third, fourth, nth time? How many games can you say that about. There are a lot of ways to increase that replay value and the biggest is improving things like gameplay, sound, narrative etc.

Think about some of the most played games in the world. Would you believe that they are casual games? Things like Bejeweled, Tetris, Sims, etc have more play hours associated with them than games like GTA and Halo. Why? Because they are designed to be fun whether you have been playing them for minutes or years. They always offer a challenge every time you pick them up. Can you say that about most blockbuster games?

The really good games in this industry have almost no used market because the people who by them continue to play them even afte rthey have "beat" the game.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: Video Games Are Dead, Part 2

Didn't think it'd take too long before someone missed the point and started going on about how the nasty games industry is trying to take away second hand.

>Instead of whining and complaining about the used market

Which nobody's doing, only saying it exists. Kind of as if they're looking at it in part of some kind of assessment of the risks involved in the business of videogame publishing.

>One of the biggest reasons that the used market thrives so easily in the games industry is the fact that games are developed with short lifespans. Most games don't stay on the shelf at retailers for more than 6-12 months unless they are extremely hot games. I think if the games industry wants to compensate for used games they need to extend the shelf life of games.

The short shelf life of games is caused by the (prominence of the) second hand market- why should a retailer buy in the quantity of stock that is conducive to a longer shelf life when they can artificially constrain new supply in the first place and reap the rewards of higher margins on second hand?

More interestingly:

>The really good games in this industry have almost no used market because the people who by them continue to play them even afte rthey have "beat" the game.

Is that a design thing, or is it actually a mindset thing? The sort of places that move the casual games you cite tend to be general retailers- those without a massive hard sell for bringing games back to the same retailer.

On top of that, when topics of digital distribution come up on games sites, everyone starts to go on about how they don't like digital distribution because there isn't a second hand channel- why is that even in your head before you buy a game? Why are people approaching a cheap entertainment purchase (Yes folks, even $70 is cheap considering the price of essentials like cars and houses) as a business decision?

/b

Re: Video Games Are Dead, Part 2

"On top of that, when topics of digital distribution come up on games sites, everyone starts to go on about how they don't like digital distribution because there isn't a second hand channel- why is that even in your head before you buy a game?"

Because with digital distribution, if you don't like a game you can't return it, which means I only buy games I am 100% sure I will like.

Re: Video Games Are Dead, Part 2

Who is missing the point?

Which nobody's doing, only saying it exists. Kind of as if they're looking at it in part of some kind of assessment of the risks involved in the business of videogame publishing.

I have read the comments from a number of industry figures who have said they want a piece of the used game pie. Yes there are some level headed people in the industry who understand things like first sale, but there are just as many if not more that would either want to apply a used game "tax" on the retailers or do away with used games entirely.

The short shelf life of games is caused by the (prominence of the) second hand market- why should a retailer buy in the quantity of stock that is conducive to a longer shelf life when they can artificially constrain new supply in the first place and reap the rewards of higher margins on second hand?

So used games are the reason Walmart and Target don't carry anything but the hottest games for longer than 12 months? I wasn't aware that they are in the used game market.

On top of that, when topics of digital distribution come up on games sites, everyone starts to go on about how they don't like digital distribution because there isn't a second hand channel- why is that even in your head before you buy a game? Why are people approaching a cheap entertainment purchase (Yes folks, even $70 is cheap considering the price of essentials like cars and houses) as a business decision?

For one, houses and cars are not entertainment products. They are necessities for most people. If you want to talk strictly entertainment products, video games are some of the most expensive. Aside from concert tickets, I think games are the most expensive.

As for people complaining about no secondhand for digital distribution, so? humans in general have a need to own things. If they feel that something only gives them the illusion of ownership, of course they are going to complain. Look at the issues that have happened with DRM infected music. Do you really "own" those tracks if the authentication servers are shut down and you cannot listen to the music you bought? Same goes for games whether bought as a physical product or digital. If you only have the illusion of ownership, why buy it.

There are exceptions for games like MMOs that are dependent on code that is contained on the company server, but if you buy a single player game and at any time your "ownership" of said game can be revoked, why bother?

AS for your general response, My comments were directly toward the statement made by Dean. He is the one that said that retailers and publishers need to strike a deal that makes them both happy. My response was that there was no need for them to make such a deal. I then proceeded with my reasons why.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: Video Games Are Dead, Part 2

Let me get this right...... because there are used games new games are made shorter and less content rich and less re playable?

 

"On top of that, when topics of digital distribution come up on games sites, everyone starts to go on about how they don't like digital distribution because there isn't a second hand channel- why is that even in your head before you buy a game? Why are people approaching a cheap entertainment purchase (Yes folks, even $70 is cheap considering the price of essentials like cars and houses) as a business decision?"

Because in a consumer driven society entertainment is a vital part of life.


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Video Games Are Dead, Part 2

Used games are part of the market and new games will just have to learn to compete with them(and *cough*fairuse*cough*).


I can see a worth deal taking place say the retailers of used games give 25% of the used game price to the publishers and the then the new game prices are lowered 30% that would really drive things harder and the retailers would still be making money off used sales. But with all the arrogant greed splitting interests can be nearly imposable...



Frankly I hate nothing more than a game forcing you to replay it a few times to see all of it so replay value is not as important as over all quality IMO.


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Video Games Are Dead, Part 2

So if I go on to Ebay and sell an old game I should give some money I earned off a product that I have already purchased back to the people I purchased the said product from in the first place?

 

So why should used game stores be forced to?

---

I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"

I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"
 
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quiknkoldSyringes can break. And in a transcontinental delivery, the glass could've broken when crushed. I work in a mail center. Shit like this is super serious09/21/2014 - 3:25pm
E. Zachary KnightIt doesn't matter what is inside the needle. As long as it requires him to take the step of purposefully injecting himself, the threat of the substance is as close to zero as you can get.09/21/2014 - 1:27pm
quiknkoldEzach: I'm not talking about the needle. I'm talking about what's inside. Geeze. Depending on what it is, the sender could be guilty of bioterrorism.09/21/2014 - 12:51pm
E. Zachary Knightquiknkold, No. That syringe is not worse than white powder or a bomb. The syringe requires the recipient to actually inject themselves. Not true for other mail threats.09/21/2014 - 12:49pm
Andrew EisenThe closest to a threat I ever received was a handwritten note slipped under my door that read "I KNOW it was you." Still no idea what that was about. I think the author must have got the wrong apartment.09/21/2014 - 12:28pm
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james_fudgewell I hope he called the police so they can let us all know.09/21/2014 - 9:07am
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james_fudgeI just looked it up on UPS.com09/21/2014 - 8:56am
james_fudgeand expensive for an American to ship to London.09/21/2014 - 8:55am
E. Zachary KnightThat is pretty scary. Would have been worse if it were a fake bomb or white powder.09/21/2014 - 8:49am
quiknkoldThere's some more tweets regarding it with more pictures09/21/2014 - 8:09am
quiknkoldMilo Yiannopoulos was mailed a syringe filled with clear liquid. He claims it's anti gamergate harassment. Mentioned on his twitter twitter.com/Nero/status/51366668391625523209/21/2014 - 8:07am
Andrew EisenNow, having said that, what sites are you reading that are claiming that if "you self-identify as a Gamer, you're immediately the problem" or that gamers are "obligated to stop harassment"? Or was that hyperbole too?09/21/2014 - 1:03am
Andrew EisenFirst of all, ONE person in the Shout box suggested an obligation to call harassers out on their harassing but only after YOU brought it up. Plus, Techno said "when you see it happening." If you don't see it, you're not under any obligation.09/21/2014 - 1:02am
Sleaker@Craig R. - at this point I don't even know what the hashtags are suppsed to be in support of. what does GamerGate actually signify.09/21/2014 - 12:21am
Sleaker@AE - Hyperbole for the first 2, but it seems like some of the comments in the shout are attempting to place blame on fellow gamers because they aren't actively telling people to stop harassing even though they don't necessarily know anyone that has.09/21/2014 - 12:16am
Andrew EisenSleaker - Who the heck are you reading that is claiming "all gamers are bad," we "need to pass laws or judgement on all gamers," that if "you self-identify as a Gamer, you're immediately the problem," or that gamers are "obligated to stop harassment"?09/20/2014 - 9:44pm
erthwjimhe swatted more than just krebs, I think he swatted 30 people http://krebsonsecurity.com/2014/05/teen-arrested-for-30-swattings-bomb-threats/09/20/2014 - 9:31pm
 

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