GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes Offline

August 31, 2009 -

Outspoken God of War designer David Jaffe posted a video rant against used game sales on Saturday, but apparently removed it from YouTube the following day.

We caught up to Jaffe's video yesterday morning while scanning our daily RSS intake (left). By late afternoon when we checked back to gather some quotes for this article, it was gone. In its place was a YouTube message reading, "This video has been removed by the user."

A short time later, when we looked again, we couldn't even access his blog. A system message from Blogger read: "This blog is open to invited readers only."

It's unclear why Jaffe's video was taken offline or why he locked his blog. While Jaffe's video argument against used game sales was punctuated by occasional f-bombs, that's not unusual for his freewheeling commentaries. Prior to being locked, readers of Jaffe's blog were engaged in a lively response to his video, both pro and con.

The used game issue is a passionate one indeed, and Jaffe has addressed it previously on his blog. For his part, Jaffe takes the standard industry line that games are bad for developers and publishers. In the deleted video, he said (we're paraphrasing from memory here) that he didn't begrudge consumers the right to buy used games, but that game creators deserved a cut of used game sales. He said that some have defended used game sales by comparing buying a used game to buying a used car. However, Jaffe said that was a bad analogy because while playing a used game is the same experience as playing a new game, driving a used car is a different experience from driving a new one.

GP: Hmmm... We tried to reach Jaffe via Twitter to ask him about the missing video, but it appears that his Twitter account is no longer active. We hope that Jaffe has not decided to stop interacting with gamers. While we don't always agree with his rants, they are provocative and entertaining.


Comments

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

No you haven't "got me" the argument proposed was that the car manufacturers didn't make any money from the used car market and because of such it was compared to the used games market and for them "to quit whining because car manufacturers have it the same way too".

But then people kept on adding cases in which the car manufacturers wouldn't make any money from the used market so that the comparison would stick. But the fact is that car manufacturers found a way to make money from that market and the games companies are looking for ways to make money from their used market, but as soon as anyone from the industry comments on it gamers start moaning.

The games industry can put an end to used games completely by going fully into downloadable content so that games can only be downloaded (something the PSP GO is putting on trial). But like car manufacturers downloadable content (like spare parts) will be something to use to make money out of the used market.

The market penetration of the car market is different to the games market, and whereas car companies are looking at about selling one or two cars to a household over a number of years, games sell on the basis that one person buys multiple games per year. Buying a car from one brand will prevent the person buying a car from a rival (apart from the consoles themselves) this wouldn't work for the software sales. I can't see how this stragety can be used by the games industry, but no doubt as soon as they comment on it gamers will moan.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

I guess I haven't got you as you seem to be arguing that the used car analogy doesn't work for the exact same reasons I am saying it does work.

EVERY OTHER PHYSICAL GOODS  MANUFACTURER HAS TO DEAL WITH THE USED MARKET OF THEIR PRODUCTS EVERY DAY AND JUST DEAL WITH IT.

My question is why can't the games industry?

Personally, I don't care how the games industry works out making money from the used market or around it as long as my right to resell my property however I choose is not infringed.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

JUST DEAL WITH IT

What does this mean:

A. Accept that no money will be made from it.

B. Find a way to make money from it.

Currently the games industry does not make any money from the used games market and they are looking at ways to do so (such as downloadable content), but as soon as anyone from the games industry says "used games" gamers say "you fucking cunt". The used games market is damaging the industry, FACT, don't pretend that it doesn't. The industry understands this and is looking at ways to fix this, but for some reason gamers seem to hate any attempt that the industry makes to make money from the used market.

Games are in a market where the quality doesn't degrade after use (even books have some sort of degradation). Yes the same could be said for DVDs and CDs but the generally low price of the products means that the saving on the used markets don't result in much when compared to games. Obviously the best solution would be to reduce the price of games, but I can't see that happening.

For me personally the used market is damaging as it helps maintain the high price on new titles, meaning that reductions are slower to come. Used games also don't represent a saving (many times new games can be cheaper than used games), and if you want to buy a game, trade it in after a week you would be better off renting as it's cheaper.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

The problem is more that gaming hardware and software is over priced so its not a very good medium to match DVD sales/dissemination wise, because of the prices it limits its market share even despite being popular the main problem with gaming is not used game sales not even how many are sold but how poorly developers and publishers spend money on a project in the first place. You are not going to gain a alrge profit if you spend the majority of it merely keeping up with the Joneses.....

If publishers want a piece of the used game market theres only one way to do it and thats to lower new game prices as so they can get a cut of all retreaded titles under their banner, it would not take a great deal of effort to make a electronic software (that any retialer can use) of titles and have a percentage of the itemized sale go to whom ever they have a reduced price contract with. If the game industry can not innovate and cut a deal with retail's there is no reason for them to be magically granted an exemption from "first sale" because if they can do it so can the film and music industries.

TL : DR
Basically its the games industry fault for making the used game industry lucrative because they refuse to change or be innovative.


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

You are incorrect, there is only one specific instance that gamers complain about, and that is the fact that it has been said over and over again by various game companies that they want a cut of the sale when one of their games is sold, even though they don't own that particular copy anymore.

That's the only thing anyone here is complaining about. If they can find some other way to make money after first sale, I welcome them to it. But I don't appreciate you trying to put words in our mouths, so kindly take your straw man elsewhere. 

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

What he said.

Seriously. I have never complained about DLC or any other such measure to ensure an income from used sales of their games.

But i have expressed my opinion very loudly that I will not tolerate them trying to muscle used game retailers into paying "protection"

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

We haven't gone from one thing to another.  We've stayed at "car manufacturers don't make any money from a car sale that they did not make, and were not involved in, regardless as to whether or not they sold the car originally."

There have just been clarifications, not revisions.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

Then if gaming companies want to make a profit from second hand sales they should, like car manufacturers, start their own second-hand division and undercut the high-street. That's perfectly acceptable in my books, some companies have even taken that route, but if they aren't going to do that, then they shouldn't complain when other people do.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

I think the analogy was more about people who sell their used vehicle on their own, say through an ad in the paper or online.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

Car manufactures make money out of the used car market only when they buy the used car from the owner first, and then they sell it.

If a game company wants to buy my used game from me and then sell it themselves, that's perfectly fine.

However neither the car manufacturers nor game companies do, or should, get money from the resale of any used product just because they made it in the first place.  If they buy it from the legal owner, the customer, first then they can sell it and make money because at that point they own the product again.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

Of course they make a profit when they re-sell their car.  But do they make a profit when some used-car dealer (not a dealership run by, say, Mitsubishi or Ford or somesuch) sells a car?  No, they do not, and taht used car dealer doesn't send them a cut of the profit. 

Oh, by the way, many dealerships that sell used cars seem to have a lot of cars from other brands on their lots.  When they sell one of those, I guarantee that the other car company doesn't see a dime.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

not to mention used games are basically free advertising for the sequels of those games

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

This really is growing old.  Do you know how many people buy new games?  By trading in old games.  By removing used game sales as an option does not mean that everyone who bought those used games will now shell out $60 for a new game.  They will likely just do without.  But what companies will lose are those aforementioned sales of new games purchased with credit from old games.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

The video game market is difficult to succeed in, that is true.  This is not a reason, legal or moral, for developers to get a cut of used game sales.

Creating a single-player game is a risky venture, that is true.  This is not a reason, legal or moral, for developers to get a cut of used game sales.

Other similar businesses (books, videos, etc) have a better set up, or better market situation, to absorb the financial hit of a product that doesn't sell so well.  This is not a reason, legal or moral, for developers to get a cut of used game sales.

Studios and developers are treated harshly when their sales don't go through the roof on every game.  Again true, and not fair, but again not a reason, legal or moral, for developers to get a cut of used game sales.

 

Once you sell a product to me it is no longer yours, it is mine.  If I want to use it, burn it to ashes, or immediately turn around and sell it in mint condition to someone else, that is my business.

It has been pointed out that the car analogy is not accurate because a car degrades in quality as it is used.  Which seems to be saying that if cars did not degrade in quality or didn't, as Jaffe put it, become "a different experience from driving a new one", that it should fall under the same argument that says makers of a product should get a cut of every sale of that product, used or new.  Say the person who bought the car took impeccable car of the vehicle, or better yet did not even sit in the car before turning around and selling it.  Should the dealer get a cut of that sale?  No.  That's ridiculous.

Books and dvds are often resold in perfect condition.  What does it matter that they have a different market setup, or make money for longer off of their product than video games do?  They don't get a cut of the sale of their used product.  This situation is not different than video games.  But can you imagine having to cut a check to a publisher every time you resold a book?  Again, ridiculous.

Game studios/developers don't deserve handouts of extra money just because they are in a harsh market.  They don't get to take more of my money than they deserve just because they struggle to make money on their product.  That is not, nor will it ever be, a valid reason for taking more of my money.  Stealing is wrong, legally and morally, so I will not walk into Gamestop and walk out with a new game without paying for it.  The studio deserves my money in return for that product. 

But when I turn around and sell my property it does not matter whether or not the product is in brand new, good or poor condition.  Does not matter what sort of market the product came from, does not matter whether the original seller is financially struggling or making billions.  They no longer own the property I am selling, so they don't get the money from it.  Period.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

For anyone interested, a transcript of the Twitter argument which begot this video rant, can be found here

Also, the folks at Voodoo Extreme claims that Jaffe has said that he will go offline for the next 6 months. Unfortunately they don't provide any info on where they obtained that info, so the validity of the statement can't be verified, but it would explain why his twitter account is gone and his blog is logged down.

-- Blaidd drwg

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

After reading that exchange, all I can say is that Jaffe looks like a complete cunt.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

I've got into arguments with people like that, you start trying to have a reasonable discussion with them, stating your own case politely, and because they don't have a response, they simply resort to insulting you. It's a surefire way to lose an argument in my books.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

Agreed, a businessmen should conduct himself a lot better, even if it's on twitter.

www.20sidedwoman.blogspot.com

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

The guy's a game developer. I don't know if "businessman" is the most appropriate descriptor.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

Regardless of what you want to call him, it's rather irresponsible to represent himself and the teams he works with the way he did.  

www.20sidedwoman.blogspot.com

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

Once again, how dare developers and publishers actually want to be paid for people to enjoy their products. How DARE they sir!

If they could actually get their money back on a decent game then they would probably make better games. Very few games ever return enough of a profit to make spending millions of dollars a winning venture on it. The games that make developers and publishers the most money are things like Nintendogs, My little Pony, Barbie, and children's cartoon and movie games like Hannah Montana. "Hardcore" gamers don't really support the games we like well. Even really great games end up selling almost as many if not more used copies then new because of re-re-re-re-sales.

And you all wonder why developers are more and more frequently churning out junk that only 7 year olds can appreciate? Here's a hint, it's because YOU don't support the games that YOU actually like to play.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

"Very few games ever return enough of a profit to make spending millions of dollars a winning venture on it."

By what credentials can you make this statement? I want proof/paperwork, or you can stop making these assumptions right now.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

How many AAA titles get made versus how many crappy titles. How many companies that aren't like Blizzard or EA do you see activly making AAA games. All you have to do is walk into gamestop and see the long list of stuff that really you have to wonder if their budget even hit 1 mil to understand, developers and publishers are shying away from AAA because it's been proven in the industry that while they pay great if they're hits, it's more financially solvent over time to put out a ton of meh-decent games that don't cost a lot to make and make small profits on them then to put out several AAA titles because the money you lose on the AAA can easily throw you out of business.

If you're not aware of how many game companies are closing and downsizing right now you aren't paying attention. Midway has been bought out. They USED to be one of the big dogs in the industry, not even that long ago.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

"Once again, how dare developers and publishers actually want to be paid for people to enjoy their products."

Developers and publishers do get paid. Specifically, they get paid on the first sale of a particular copy. That's all they're entitled to by law, so legally it's perfectly fair.

PS - If you have any other questions, comments or suggestions, do not hesitate to contact someone who gives a damn.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

The same could be said for your side of the arguement. Gamers already get the biggest bang for our buck on entertainment, even at the $60 price point. And there is no guarentee that you WILL enjoy a product you buy, that involves being a smart shopper and researching a purchase before you make it.

You DO get what you pay for. If you aren't willing to pay the market price, I don't see why you should have access to a cheaper used copy just because you want to play the game, to the detriment of the people producing them. You don't have a right to play every game made, you have a right to buy and play whatever you like. THEY DO have a right to be compensated for what they create.

So, if you have any other questions, concerns, comments, or suggestions on how game makers and publishers price and sell their goods (including after DD becomes the norm)  don't hesitate to contact someone who gives a damn.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

"I don't see why you should have access to a cheaper used copy ..."

Except that I do have access to cheaper used copies, and I fail to see why I shouldn't. It's up to you to convince me that it's necessary to be denied such access. That publishers make less money is not a good enough reason.

"You don't have a right to play every game made ..."

I never said I did, and I really have no idea why you think that constitutes an argument against the things I did say. What I do have is the right to play the games I buy, whether I buy them new or used. If you think I don't have that right, you are only deceiving yourself.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

I think you do have a right to play any game you buy, in fact I think I even stated that in the post you're responding to.

Personally I have no problem with consumer A selling a used game to consumer B. I have a problem with stores like Gamestop which hurt new game sales by actively interferring with them in hopes of making more profit for themselves. I have a problem with stores like Gamestop making more profits off of games then the developers (make sure to read developer as seperate from publisher in most instances).

However because consumers have become paranoid about buying things online, to concerned with having it RIGHT NOW (which is funny for how many people preorder months in advance), and generally jaded by a pricing structure that is set more because of piracy and the lower new sales due to used sales, stores like Gamestop have become intrinsicly linked into the product flow. That is causing developers and publishers to say "wait a minute" and is spurring the move towards DD and DLC on. A lot of people won't be happy about it, but frankly as consumers we're doing it to ourselves by supporting the one retailor that has caused this major paradigm shift in the way we buy games.

The industry will find a way to survive, whether that means catering to a smaller user base or not is yet to be seen.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

Yes, completely different rules should apply to them than to any other business, because YOU think it might get YOU better games. Who cares about the impact on either the market or the customer, good games are more important than protecting the rights of the consumers...

 

Oh, and I can promise you, the quality of the games wouldn't change, nor would the developers income. The distributor, on the other hand, is a whole other ball-game.

 

The NPD posted profits of $18 Billion last year, not including PC Games. How much profit, exactly, does the industry have to make in order to improve their games as you believe they would?

 

Frankly, the issue here is between developer and distributor, not developer and customer, if developers want to complain about their percentage, then the daftest possible route to take is to attack the paying customer, but the customer base has become so docile that they sit there and take it. Personally, a few months of 'screw you' non-purchasing of games would soon make them aware that implying their customers should have less rights than anyone else's customers isn't conducive to running a business.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

"... implying their customers should have less rights than anyone else's customers isn't conducive to running a business."

Very well put.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

Have they ever criticised the consumer though? They criticise the used game market and the shops profiting from it, whilst noting that they don't blame the consumer for wanting cheaper games. I'm failing to see the criticism aimed at the consumer.

I love the people that say "I always buy used games, but the developers keep moaning about their profits, so I've decided to stop buying their games to teach them a lesson", because how is the stopping of purchasing used games going to harm the developer?

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

"I love the people that say "I always buy used games, but the developers keep moaning about their profits, so I've decided to stop buying their games to teach them a lesson", because how is the stopping of purchasing used games going to harm the developer?"

It means the used game this person would have purchased will now be available for somebody else to purchase. This may in turn result in the second person purchasing the used game rather than a new one, which means one less sale of a new game.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

So people who buy used games are helping the games industry by preventing someone else from buying a used game? Please, you're clutching at straws here with your logic.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

Grasping at straws? No. It's simple economics.

If N used games are available for purchase and I purchase one of those games, there are now N-1 used games available for purchase. The Nth purchaser after myself would either have to purchase new or do without. If I don't buy the game, purchaser #N will simply be able to buy the used game I didn't buy.

Used copies are not unlimited, and all used copies were once sold as new. That's enough to guarantee demand for new games. You're the one playing games with logic if you think that's not the case.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

Yes because the store never gets more used copies, there's a finite amount. And it's not like they're getting used copies one or two days after the game first comes out... oh wait.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

Did I say there was a fixed amount of used copies?

Every single game added to the pool of used games was once sold as new, so the basic claim in my post still holds even when you allow the number of used copies to grow. There's always some number N of used copies available, and until such time as the market becomes saturated the demand for new games will still exist. Basically, as long as the number of people who simultaneously wish to own a copy of a particular game is greater than the number of used copies currently available for purchase there will continue to exist a demand for new copies of those games.

You can try all sorts of mental gymnastics in order to deny this basic truth, but any conclusions you arrive at through such gymnastics are likely to be mistaken.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

That doesn't eliminate the fact that a used copy purchased is also more likely to be traded in again for the person's next game. I'd be interested if there was a way to find out the average number of times a single copy of a game gets traded in, and I'd be willing to bet it's higher then 1.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

A used game can be traded as often as you like, but it will never add more than a single unit to the pool of used games. When I sell a used game to GameStop, one used game is added to the pool of used games such that somebody else can now buy the game used. Once somebody buys the game I sold to GameStop, one used game is subtracted from the pool of available used games and nobody else can buy that particular copy used until its owner sells it back. The limiting factor that necessarily results in sales of new games is not eliminated by recognizing the fact that a used game can be resold a number of times.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

At any one given time yes, but now you're trying to compare the overall effect of used game sales to single instances in time and that doesn't work. If that one game was the only used game on the shelf (and was purchased by people who would otherwise have bought the game new) multiple times then one copy has cut out multiple new sales. This is why the actual effect is so hard to judge, because the amount of times a single game is resold and to whom varies so much.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

A single used copy can indeed result in more than one "lost sale" for new copies. I fail to see how that changes anything in what I said.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

Well to be frank I think it lessens your point by a large degree but it's probably a matter of perspective getting down to it.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

Because the attack is directed at the customer, developers tiptoe around distributors because the two are linked intrinsically, piss off the distributor and it will hit the developer, so, instead, they state that customers should pay multiple times, every time a game changes hands. Whether it's directly stated as such or not, that is an attack on the Rights of the customers themselves. The customer may or may not notice that difference at the checkout, but that isn't the point.

No-one in this particular post said they always buy used games, so I'm not quite sure where that came from, but, certainly, I wouldn't stop buying used games to teach them a lesson, quite the opposite if anything.

The main problem here is, once again, it's a way of singling out computer games for special treatment when compared to every other product out there, they already have that whole 'cannot refund once opened' rule that doesn't apply to any other product, and whether it's the developer, distributor or retailer that is to blame, it's still the rights of the customer that are impacted, and it's a slippery slope argument, because when one industry finds a way of getting around it, others will try to follow.

I no more agree with the singling out of computer games for financial advantage than I agree with the singling out of computer games for blame in school shootings, they are both inherently wrong in my books.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

To sum up what you've said:

Games companies that want to propose measures that will not be noticed by the consumer is a direct attack on consumers. They want gamers to pay every time a game changes hands (I thought this happened anyway on the used game market).

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

Actually game consumers will notice. When the publisher asks Game Stop to pay them 10% of the used game sale, do you think that game Stop will pay all that out of their own profits? If you do you are an idiot.

So when the consumer brings in a game to trade, instead of a $15 trade value, they will be presented with a $10 trade value.

The consumer will be screwed in the end.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

Mainly because the used game dealers are massive dicks.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

I didn't say anything of the sort. What I said was that the developers expect money for every used sale, the retailer may, or may not, pass on that money to the consumer, but that doesn't mean it isn't an attack on their rights, because it's about the mentality behind the charge, not the charge itself that is wrong. This isn't about consumers paying more at the till, it's about the whole concept behind it, that second-hand sales of computer games are somehow allowed to be treated differently to every other product on the market.

Of course gamers pay when a game changes hand, that's why it's a second hand market, not a second-hand giveaway, but that trade should be between the two people involved, be they retailer or private.

There's lots of things that go on in the world that people don't notice, that doesn't make them ok.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

So it's a gamer's right to have part of the money he pays go to the developer? I can't see where the consumer's right is in this when you're talking about what makes up the price on the game. What difference does it make to the consumer when part of the price they pay goes to a developer and not wholly to a shop?

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

"So it's a gamer's right to have part of the money he pays go to the developer?"

No, at least as far as resale is concerned.

What I'm saying is that it's not a developers right to ask for more money for what they've already sold, the financial impact, which may or may not be visible is entirely immaterial, it's the thinking behind it that is the problem.

You'll note that at no point have I stated that the cost definately wouldn't be visible, the chances are that it will be visible, but even if it wasn't, it still wouldn't be acceptable to apply different rules to computer games than to any other merchandise.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

I still can't see what any of this has to do with consumer's rights.

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

Perhaps you should lokk at my point directly below. The cost of paying the developer for used sales of games will be transfered to the consumer in the form of

1. Higher sale prices for used games

2. Lower trade in values for used games.

Both negatively affect the consumer.

E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma

Re: GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes ...

I still fail to see the part of the point where it is against consumer rights because part of what they pay for a second-hand game goes back to the developer. What there are rights about this? Currently the money that is spent on a game goes towards the staff, the shop rental, the shareholders and anyone else involved, I can't see how adding developers into the equation goes against the rights of the consumer.

The point even stated that consumer rights would be affected even if prices didn't go up (and it's not as though it is a consumer right to have low prices). And now capitalism helps protects consumer rights?!? Anyway it's a bit coy to bring up the idea of capitalism and how this apparently goes against, because no country in the world follows pure capitalism, every country imposes limits on it.

Even heard the argument that if games developers do get a cut out of the used game market that will usher in an era of communism into America, but there's hope.

 
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ConsterZippy: uh, thanks? Don't know any PSP games, though.10/31/2014 - 10:10am
ZippyDSMleehttp://arstechnica.com/business/2014/10/fcc-reportedly-close-to-reclassifying-isps-as-common-carriers/10/31/2014 - 9:44am
ZippyDSMleesomewhat ammuseing, http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/metallica_ask_fans_for_help_with_two_new_reissues.html10/31/2014 - 9:25am
Neo_DrKefkaAnyone remember that portrait from Resident Evil 1 in the gallery about a Middle Aged man full of worries? Anyone know the name of that portrait?10/31/2014 - 12:45am
MechaTama31Yeah, don't see myself getting a Vita or a PSTV...10/31/2014 - 12:04am
E. Zachary KnightWatch Ultron ruin all your Disney childhood memories in this How The Ultron Teaser Should Have Ended. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra1sBRLRFtc10/30/2014 - 9:23pm
ZippyDSMleeConster:they finally made a working worth while PSP emulator.10/30/2014 - 8:10pm
quiknkoldMechatama31, you can get VC2 on the Vita and Vita TV. you have to buy it through PSN on PS3 and transfer it to vita and then playstation tv. I have it on my PS TV and it works10/30/2014 - 7:15pm
MechaTama31I loved Valkyria Chronicles. Still super cheesed off that the sequels were PSP-only... :/10/30/2014 - 6:57pm
ConsterI played Steamworld Dig on the 3DS, and it's pretty fun.10/30/2014 - 6:51pm
Matthew WilsonRECOMMENDED: OS: Windows 7 Processor: Intel Core2 Duo @ 2.8GHz (or equivalent) Memory: 3 GB RAM Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 280 (or equivalent) Hard Drive: 25 GB available space10/30/2014 - 5:49pm
Matthew Wilsonhere hare the system requirements. make of ithem what you will. MINIMUM: OS: Windows Vista/Windows 7 Processor: Intel Core2 Duo @ 2.0GHz (or equivalent) Memory: 2 GB RAM Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTS 240 (or equivalent) Hard Drive: 25 GB available spa10/30/2014 - 5:48pm
Andrew EisenStill a game I really want to play. Hope it's a solid port.10/30/2014 - 5:42pm
Matthew WilsonValkyria Chronicles pc port needs 25ggb. not bad exept this game came out in 08 on the ps3.10/30/2014 - 4:56pm
james_fudgeEZK: my sarcasm senses are tingling ;)10/30/2014 - 4:21pm
Andrew EisenIf it's any consolation, Xbox owners, Wii U owners don't get the game at all. And if we did, we'd probably never get the DLC.10/30/2014 - 4:19pm
MaskedPixelantehttp://kotaku.com/destinys-new-dlc-kinda-screws-over-xbox-players-1652294153 Sucks when the shoe's on the other foot, huh.10/30/2014 - 4:12pm
E. Zachary KnightSo a vocational school in Oklahoma is being evacuated because someone found a briefcase in the bathroom. Imagine that. A briefcase ina school. That's unpossible.10/30/2014 - 3:33pm
prh99Also, Nintendo wants to watch you sleep..for Science! (*in best Cave Johnson voice) http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/10/nintendo-wants-to-watch-you-sleep-for-science/10/30/2014 - 2:47pm
 

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