Boycotting the Boycotter: Stardock takes on UPS

A few weeks ago, UPS announced that it was pulling its advertising from Fox News because it disagreed with the inflammatory views of talk show host Glenn Beck. For those that missed the flap, Beck called President Obama a racist "with a deep-seeded hatred for white people." At least 33 companies have said they do not want their ads appearing on Beck’s show.

In return, it looks like Stardock CEO Brad Wardell has taken the boycott a step further. According to the Angry Bear blog, Wardell has announced on his Facebook page that he is now boycotting UPS because they pulled their ads from Fox. He said Stardock does "a non-trivial amount of shipping with UPS" and if they did not change their position, he was taking Stardock’s business to FedEx. 

The amount of business that UPS would lose should amount to a minor blip on their bottom line, but Wardell’s stand of boycotting the boycotter makes for an interesting debate on supporting products you like, even though the executives may disagree with their political views. The Angry Bear points to his own views of Orson Scott Card and the upcoming Shadow Complex game.

Is this much ado about nothing, or can one voice become a collective roar? How far down the line will boycotts go? Will gamers who agree with UPS now boycott Stardock? Where do you stand?

Update: Wardell emailed GamePolitics with the following:

My Facebook comment was taken considerably out of context. I could care less about Glenn Beck or whether someone advertises on their show or not. But UPS is boycotting the entire channel which annoyed me enough to ask my publishing director to look into whether it was true (it was) and have them look into Fed Ex which provided competitive pricing and make use of them for our uses.
 

 

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110 comments

  1. 0
    Lou says:

    So Stardock wants to boycott UPS and wants to change to FedEx. Hmmm my last three shipments with FedEx resulted in seriously beat-up boxes with one of them having it’s goods damaged. I guess Stardock’s customer service department being driven mad becuase their goods came damaged due to poor handling. Google "FedEx damaged my package" and see for yourself. I’m not saying that UPS doesn’t do it (trust me they do) but these guys made this an artform… Seriously have you seen FedEx drivers on their routes? They drive like maniacs.

  2. 0
    DarkSaber says:

    " have them look into Fed Ex which provided competitive pricing and make use of them for our uses."

    In other words, you’re going to Fed-Ex because it’s cheaper, but decided to grab for some free publicity at the same time. Ah well, I pirated my copy of GalCiv 2 anyway.

    ————————————————–

    I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

  3. 0
    sirjonk says:

     

    UPS’s boycotting of Glenn Beck is a move calculated to show their strong disagreement/disapproval of such unapologetic vitriolic rhetoric, or simply the decision to have no appearance of association with a person making such statements.

    Boycotting UPS for pulling their advertising is anyone’s given right, but what statement exactly is being made by such an act? Agreement with Glenn Beck that the president is a racist and despite having a white mother and white grandmother who raised him, that he has a hatred of white people? 

     

    I love watching the current generation of extreme conservatives as they walk themselves off the cliff like the insane lemmings that they are.  (Someone better tell them that having a 99% white party in a country with a rapidly shrinking white majority is not a good plan for long term viability.)

  4. 0
    Canary Wundaboy says:

    Oh Jesus, it’s "couldn’t"!!!!

    You "COULDN’T CARE LESS"!!!!

    Why are the yanks totally incapable of grasping this, you sound like idiots when you get it wrong!!!!

    Think about it, you "could care less", meaning you care about it in the first place! "Couldn’t care less" means that it’s so unimportant you already care about it so little you couldn’t possibly care in any lesser amount.

    Blimey, to think you control so many guns…the mind boggles.

  5. 0
    Stinking Kevin says:

    Maybe Brad Wardell could care less about Glenn Beck, but there were quite a few companies that cared enough about their images to pull their funding for his show. I’m all for free speech, but speaking on a national cable network to millions of people every night is not free. It costs a lot of money, and someone has to take responisbility for that money.

    I could care less, as they say, about UPS or whether someone patronizes their service or not. But the boss of Stardock is now boasting publically about basing business decisions based on his support for Fox News which annoys me enough to look into the games from competing indie publishers and make use of them for my uses.

  6. 0
    Arell says:

    Glenn Beck is both a symtom and an instigator of what is wrong with American politics these days.  We no longer accept that people have different views and beliefs, and that there’s room for compromise or even temporarily trying something different.  No, people who pursue a different path are villanized, treated as the enemy, and we must shout them down and show them no level of respect.  Both sides are guilty of this, but the Conservative movement seems to be a little extra raucous these days.  The Right would have you believe that Obama is some evil mastermind bent on our destuction, who spends his days twirling his moustache and laughing manically, then retiring to a night of clubbing baby seals just before he takes a bath in the blood of virgins.  Beck is particularly good at making people mad and blaming everything on the other side.  He’s so good, that every couple months or so he has to caution his viewers to not actually commit violence, lest he get sued for instigating it. 

    "Hate them, blame them, drive them out!!!  They’re racists, they’re nazis, they’re not the America you remember, infact they hate America and everything they do is a deliberate attempt to destroy us from within!  There is no middle ground, this is a revolution, this is war!!!  (Disclaimer: this isn’t actually a war, so we will not be held responsible if you commit violent crimes based on things you hear on this show)."

    As for boycotts, I don’t care what either company does.  It’s their free right to send their dollars where they want.  I’m not going to get upset for that.

  7. 0
    gamegod25 says:

    1) I personally don’t know if Obama is racist or not. Just because that pastor he knew said some crazy stuff doesn’t necessarily mean Obama agrees with those opinions.

    2) Even if he is racist/sexist/whatever, he’s certainly no more so than anyone else at the various news networks or any other politician.

    3) Glenn Beck is crazy. That’s not an opinion, that’s a fact. And I know I wouldn’t want to be associated with that loon.

    4) Even though I agree with UPS I’m not going to boycott Stardock. If they want to switch to FedEx that’s their business.

  8. 0
    mechwarrior says:

    I find it ridiculous that Stardock is boycotting UPS for boycotting Fox news. Is the CEO of Starduck saying that they believe that Obama is a racist?

    How exactly is Obama racist? Is it becuase he’s black? No.

     

    More likely , white people are calling him racist for calling out the obvious socioeconmic situation where in black,white and any other skin color has its poor. Of course, the black and hispanic minorities have a statistically larger share of poverty than white people.

    90 percent of black voters voted for Obama? What the fuck do you daft people think would have happened? Are you all living your lives with thumbs in your ears to not hear the widespread DISCONTENT amongst black people against the majority white anglo-saxon protestant majority of the House and Senate?

    What the hell is happening when people sidestep obvious socioeconomic defects in the US system of governance and instead blame it on a "racist" president?

    I swear, all you fucking proles will be the end of this country. Serious discourse is dead, long live rumour and hate mongering.

  9. 0
    Count_Zero says:

    I disagree strongly with Glenn Beck, and his fear-mongering rhetoric, aimed not only at the president of the United States, but the US goverment in general. I support UPS in their boycott of Beck and Fox News, and I do not support Stardock in their boycott of UPS.

    Therefore, I’m not going to be purchasing any further Stardock products, and I’m encouraging others to do so.

    (For the record, though, I kind of wish that this had been the Stardock who put out the nasty DRM, because I wouldn’t need to boycott them, because I’m already not using any products who use their DRM anyway.)

    Oh, and by the way, if voting with my dollars and choosing not to support a company which either engages in business practices which I find unethical, or who supports other companies/organizations which do engage in such practices (because they engage in such practices) is wrong, then I don’t want to be right.

  10. 0
    Father Time says:

    It’s such a shame it’s like that. I used to be a hardline liberal with us v. them mentality but then I was convinced that one of the liberal positions was wrong, and so I’ve grown skeptic and my opinion has changed to be a mix of the two.

    Sad thing is if the guy who convinced me had talked in an us vs. them mentality I would’ve ignored him enitrely, so it really doesn’t help much.

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  11. 0
    thefremen says:

    To be honest I have no problem not buying from Stardock from here one. Steam does a much better job of handling updates anyways (as in, it actually updates the products). 

  12. 0
    1AgainstTheWorld says:

    The only reason people think boycotts will work is because one worked ONCE.  Bus boycott, back in the days of the civil rights movement.  So now everybody thinks their own little boycott will bend the world to their cause.  I say go ahead and do it, both UPS and Stardock, if it means that much to you.

    And yes, American politics are retarded, and my whole country is ridiculous.  That’s why I spend so much time in game worlds.

  13. 0
    Defenestrator says:

    I’m a conservative.  I don’t keep this a secret to anyone and I’m actually proud to call myself a conservative.

    There was a point where I didn’t think Fox News was all that bad (those years have past), but they have been progressively getting more and more ridiculous.  O’Reilly has turned into a rabid madman.  And Glen Beck has just taken everything and gone full retard.

    I’ll also qualify this:  I think BOTH political parties, those acting as our senators and congressional representatives in Washington, have been so utterly detached from the American public and are nothing more than bought-and-paid-for shills who have sold their souls to various lobbying groups.  There is rampant corruption on BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE and the trash needs to be removed while we still have a country worth saving.

    I also believe that Obama WAS born as an American citizen, nor do I believe he has been outed as a racist, nor do I believe he is the reincarnation of Hitler (as some conservative moonbats would have you think).  I also don’t believe Bush was the reincarnation of Hitler (as some liberal moonbats would have you think).  Political discourse in America has turned into nothing but the slinging of mud and the spewing of raw sewage.

    I am in firm favor of term limits for all federal offices and this really needs to be enacted sooner rather than later.

    Where do I stand on the boycotts?

    1) Glen Beck is a pompous, hot-winded gasbag who is acting as nothing more than an agitator.  He’s just a famous version of an internet troll.  He is not helping the debate in any way, shape or form.  Of course, this is America and he has the right to spew his idiocy.  (Likewise, I have the right to change the channel, and there’s nothing that says Fox News has to give him an outlet.)

    2) UPS can do whatever the hell they want with their advertising dollars.  It’s their money, after all.  I’ll still use them as long as they represent the most competitive and cost effective choice for shipping something.  (They aren’t.)

    3) Stardock can do whatever the hell they want with their shipping choice knowing that Fed Ex is more expensive than UPS.  It’s THEIR choice to become less competitive if they decide they need to make some sort of political statement.  If they make a game that looks fun to play, I’ll still buy it.

    4) This whole issue is just pants on head retarded.

  14. 0
    Daidoji_Tangen says:

    There is a possible mistake in this article.

    Most of those companies are still advertising on FOX.  They simply requested their adds not to be aired during Glenn Beck’s show.  I am not sure if UPS is one of them, or one of the few that quit FOX all together.

    I honestly do not know how I will react.  Had the Stardock CEO just kept it to himself and switched shipping companies, I would not see it as a problem.  However, he has made buying his games a statement in support for Beck.  Something I find disgusting.  Personally, I would buy from any comapny who advertised on Beck’s show.  That is simply business.  Nor do I really care what the CEO’s political beliefs are (at least concerning their products).  But for Stardock, it is not simply a business thing.  Personally, I think this is a poor choice.

  15. 0
    Meohfumado says:

    American politics is absolutely retarded, and I’m ashamed of my country for it.

    They treat everything like its a goddamn football game!!!  My side no matter what!  And pray the other side fails, even if it means our country fails.

    Instead, they should be arguing the issues based on the merits….not their parties talking points. 

     

    I hate both parties with equal venom.

     

     

     

     

    "You know what I wish? I wish all the scum of the Earth had one throat and I had my hands about it."

  16. 0
    Davis 51 says:

    —-

    Joe Wilson is far less racist than someone like Sotomayor, who didn’t make that statement once, but AT LEAST five times.  How is that ‘debunked’?

    —-

    The statement as quoted out of the New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/15/us/15judge.html) was this: "I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn’t lived that life"

    It is debunked because the sttement was in of itself not racist. Regardless of political tiptoing around the issue, those of hispanic origin are far more likely to have grown up in impoverished circumstances. And its simple, basic fucking logic that one who has grown up in impoverished circumstances and has had to work much harder to get where they are would be far more effective  than one who hasn’t.

    You apparently have no idea how much easier one has it as a white person than a minority, and it shows so fucking blatantly how out of touch you are. This may or may not stem from your illiteracy, because if you had actually read the quote instead of parroted the blatant distortion that was put out by Republican talking heads, you would have known that.

    Oh no! She has EMPATHY! Justices are supposed to be Impartial! Like Vulcans!

    You think you can tell me how a justice can possibly rule on any kind of case without being able or allowed to even attempt to relate with all sides of the court? Of course you can’t, because you simply repeated a right wing talking point as usual. If you used half of that pathetic excuse of a brain you have, you would know that impartiality does not come from mindlessly reading facts, but from being able to relate yourself to all sides.

    ———

    As for your claim that only the majority can be discriminated against, that’s absolutely fucktarded.  Saying that ‘people in the majority only see racism against themselves when they harbor racist ideas’ is a cop out.  Oh, and Democrats are the majority in government right now, so why are they constantly complaining about racism? 

    And AFFIRMATIVE ACTION DENIES JOBS TO QUALIFIED APPLICANTS IN FAVOR OF APPLICANTS OF COLOR, which is DISCRIMINATION no matter how you cut it.

    ——–

    I grow weary of you repeating yourself like a broken record. It is clear you have no interest in debating, but rather being a parrot for whatever fringe lunatic you listen to. Did I fucking say "political majority?" I said MAJORITY. That means a MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION. A MAJORITY WHICH WAS IN TOTAL POWER FOR A VERY LONG TIME, THAT DID HORRIBLE THINGS TO MINORITIES. THINGS THAT EVEN TODAY MAKE IT MUCH HARDER TO GET A JOB, OR EVEN AN EDUCATION, WHICH IS WHY AFFIRMATIVE ACTION EXISTS.

    Now that the rich white christians no longer control every faceat of politics, they are lashing out through talk shows and television, empowering the nutbase. Or do you pretend that the 30 threats on Obama’s life made every day are mearly the work of "concerned citizens?"

    ——-

    And what helps lead to that cycle of poverty?  The fact that when people do get money, they leave the area, the fact that the people there don’t care enough to make sure their kids stay in school, the fact that inner city culture puts very little emphasis on education if any, the fact that law enforcement doesn’t want to step into the area because it’s dangerous for them, and many, many more factors.  Oh, and the reason that inner city schools don’t get ‘adequate funding’?  NOBODY PAYS FUCKING TAXES in the inner city, or nearly nobody.  When you have a district that doesn’t pay taxes, it’s not going to get as much money for projects like school improvement as, say, an area where people actually work instead of living off the taxpayer’s dollar.

    ——-

    There was not a single part of your statement that had any basis in reality.

    "And what helps lead to that cycle of poverty?  The fact that when people do get money, they leave the area,"

    Your inability to connect two simple points is astounding. They leave the area because its a cycle of poverty, not the other way around.

    "the fact that the people there don’t care enough to make sure their kids stay in school, the fact that inner city culture puts very little emphasis on education if any,"

    Wrong again, dumbass. Emphesis is on education more than anything in those schools. The "culture" you refer to is not a culture, but a symptom of the lack of funding for education AND law enforcement. Speaking of…

    "the fact that law enforcement doesn’t want to step into the area because it’s dangerous for them, and many, many more factors."

    It is curious that you don’t list a single other factor. Perhaps because you are talking out of your ass? And why pray tell is it dangerous? Could it be that they are not adequately funded? 

    "Oh, and the reason that inner city schools don’t get ‘adequate funding’?  NOBODY PAYS FUCKING TAXES in the inner city, or nearly nobody.  When you have a district that doesn’t pay taxes, it’s not going to get as much money for projects like school improvement as, say, an area where people actually work instead of living off the taxpayer’s dollar."

    I’m sure you believe it’s because of their culture. "Lol the culture makes a cycle of poverty because no one pays taxes." THEY DON’T FUCKING PAY TAXES BECAUSE THEY DON’T HAVE FUCKING MONEY IN THE FIRST PLACE. 

    THEY DON’T FUCKING HAVE MONEY BECAUSE THEY GET SHITTY FUNDING FROM THE STATE TO HELP THEM GET OUT OF A VICIOUS CYCLE.

    THEY GET SHITTY FUNDING FROM THE STATE BECAUSE OF SELFISH, IGNORANT, RACIST ASSWIPES LIKE YOURSELF WHO WOULD RATHER LET MILLIONS OF PEOPLE STARVE BEFORE YOU PAY ONE MORE FUCKING CENT IN TAXES TO END IT ALL.

    But you built yourself up from nothing, without any assistance from society whatsoever, and if anyone else doesn’t, its their own fucking fault because they are lazy, right? If people there paid their taxes, and were good, decent, hardworking americans, they wouldn’t be in their situation. It’s all their own fault really. They can all fuck off along with their children. They are better off dead than getting assistance from the government to help them get on their own two feet and become productive members of society. You’ve got yours. Fuck everyone else.

    You live in a bubble world and are proud of it. There is no convincing you. I only hope anyone else who has a brain that reads this will figure that out and see you for what you are: A political toolbox for extremists.

    And if you contest any of that, then I dare you to go down to an inner city. Volunteer some of your time to charity. Just one day a month or two. Seriously take a look at the people living there. Then try saying everything you just said with a straigt face.

     

  17. 0
    chadachada321 says:

    I’m speaking of the ghetto parts of inner cities. I’m not sure what percentage are involved in gangs and the like, but it’s definitely a lot higher than those in suburban areas, hence the "culture" statements from earlier.

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  18. 0
    JDKJ says:

    Given the total population of any inner-city, what percentage of the inhabitants do you believe are involved in gangs and other criminal activity or have no educational aspirations as opposed to those who are law-abiding and hard-working stiffs? Just because Austin Lewis lives in Community X is no valid basis for me to conclude that the majority of the other people who live in Community X are also severely retarded. 

  19. 0
    chadachada321 says:

    Did you even read the rest of my post? I go on to explain that current laws prevent potentially good/smart people from leaving the city, forcing many to stay in the shitty areas.

    But explain, how does that post make me a moron? Insensitive or disillusioned, perhaps (though I disagree as of right now), but surely not "moronic."

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  20. 0
    chadachada321 says:

    Well my mom voted for McCain because she didn’t like what she knew of Obama’s policies and isn’t interested enough in politics to choose a 3rd party/more fitting candidate, and felt that McCain was pretty relaxed/middle-of-the-road/moderate. So while she did vote for Palin, she didn’t vote for her because she was a woman (she was only running for VP after all). I find Hillary just as qualified as Palin for running this country, though. Both are idiots.

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  21. 0
    vellocet says:

    Did she end up voting for Palin?

    The point I’m trying to make is that all things being equal, perhaps someone would vote for Obama (because he’s black) or Hilary (because she’s a woman).  But I don’t think that anyone would vote for Palin (completely unqualified and IMO a complete knob) over someone qualified just because she’s a woman.

  22. 0
    vellocet says:

    Einstein was also intelligent, but Einstein != Hitler…

    Intelligence might not a good leader make (although it’s arguable that Hitler did a lot to help post WWI Germany), but I think that we can agree that non-intelligence does make one either.

    But that’s beside the point, I’ve been Godwin’d… you win… here’s your internet. 😀 

  23. 0
    JDKJ says:

    The ghetto parts of any major city are full of idiots that, for the most part, choose a life full of gangs and violence and shit, or just choose to not try hard in school.

    You’ve now qualified yourself for not one but two Moron of the Year Awards. Congratulations.

  24. 0
    Austin_Lewis says:

    Joe Wilson is far less racist than someone like Sotomayor, who didn’t make that statement once, but AT LEAST five times.  How is that ‘debunked’?

    As for your claim that only the majority can be discriminated against, that’s absolutely fucktarded.  Saying that ‘people in the majority only see racism against themselves when they harbor racist ideas’ is a cop out.  Oh, and Democrats are the majority in government right now, so why are they constantly complaining about racism? 

    And AFFIRMATIVE ACTION DENIES JOBS TO QUALIFIED APPLICANTS IN FAVOR OF APPLICANTS OF COLOR, which is DISCRIMINATION no matter how you cut it. 

    You, sir, are the retarded twit.  I suggest you pull your head out of your ass.

    EDIT

    Oh, I forgot:

    ‘And yet, many inner city schools are still strongly segregated, recieve inadequite funding, are plagued by lack of law enforcement, and generate a perpeutal cycle of poverty’

    And what helps lead to that cycle of poverty?  The fact that when people do get money, they leave the area, the fact that the people there don’t care enough to make sure their kids stay in school, the fact that inner city culture puts very little emphasis on education if any, the fact that law enforcement doesn’t want to step into the area because it’s dangerous for them, and many, many more factors.  Oh, and the reason that inner city schools don’t get ‘adequate funding’?  NOBODY PAYS FUCKING TAXES in the inner city, or nearly nobody.  When you have a district that doesn’t pay taxes, it’s not going to get as much money for projects like school improvement as, say, an area where people actually work instead of living off the taxpayer’s dollar.

  25. 0
    Davis 51 says:

    *sigh,*@ Joe Wilson: Joe Wilson’s outburst was a symbol of his racism, but its not what made him a racist. It was his comments about Thurmond’s daughter that made him a racist. I’m not trying to imply that the outburst suddenly made him a racist, but rather he has shown these tendencies for some time. And yes, I do pay attention to these kind of things before they hit the national level. I’m a geek like that.

    Austin:

    No shit there are plenty of people who disagree with Obama who are not racists, but Joe Wilson isn’t one of them.

    —-

    Are you shitting me about Sotomayor?  The calls made on her weren’t by ‘racists’, but by people who caught her spewing bullshit.  And if she had said it once, maybe it would be possible she misspoke.  But she made racist comments repeatedly, and there was even some racist slant in her findings.  Empathy in the court room isn’t something we need from Supreme Court Justices. And suggesting that the lashing out is driven is just retarded.

    —-

    On Sotomayor, you are full of shit. The charges of racism stem from either the firefighters decision or her "wise latina woman" claims, both of which have been thoroughly debunked. Not only was her speech comment taken completely out of context, then twisted, and twisted by right wing smear machines until she was forced to recant it, but out of the last 50 cases on discrimination she took on, she only ruled 3 of them in favor of the plantiff, and all of them were unanimous decisions.

    And inner cities are that way for a reason, and it has a lot to do with the people who live there.  White, Brown or Black, they’re not educated, they’re not intelligent, and more often than not, they’re extremely fucking lazy.  And Affirmative Action is absolutely racist: it forces people to screw over more qualified candidates to meet a quota.  How is that fair?

    Oh, and obviously, you can only see racism against yourself when you harbor racist ideals.  So wait, does that make Obama, Sotomayor, Wright, Sharpton, and the list goes on a bunch of racists?  Your thinking is absolutely flawed.

    —-

    Austin, nice job not reading my post you ignorant asswipe. "People IN THE MAJORITY see only see ‘racism’ against themselves when they harbor racist ideas." is what I said. 

    HISTORY DID NOT START WHEN YOU WERE FUCKING BORN.

    Did that sink in? HISTORY DID NOT START WHEN YOU WERE FUCKING BORN.

    Whites held a hugely disproportionate amount of power for a very fucking long time. The Civil Rights movement happened fourty years ago, not four hundred. And yet, many inner city schools are still strongly segregated, recieve inadequite funding, are plagued by lack of law enforcement, and generate a perpeutal cycle of poverty. If you think they are that way because they are ‘lazy’, all it fucking shows is that you have never encountered severe economic difficulty in your goddamn life. And if Affirmative Action has EVER denied you a job, then perhaps it is because you were less qualified. That post alone makes you seem like a retarded twit.

  26. 0
    chadachada321 says:

    Depends on what you call the inner city. The ghetto parts of any major city are full of idiots that, for the most part, choose a life full of gangs and violence and shit, or just choose to not try hard in school. Granted, if certain lesser drugs were made legal and people being released from prison weren’t continuing to be treated as criminals, then their would be a much smaller barrier keeping inner-city people from becoming decent members of society.

    Kid gets a shitty education or drops out of school to help take care of the house. He sells weed to make money because he doesn’t have the education or money to move out. He gets mugged by other thugs, so he now carries a weapon with him for protection. He doesn’t have a legal means of getting the weapon (we’ll say that it’s Chicago, which has some of the more retarded gun control laws), so he buys it illegally on the streets. One day, he gets arrested. A felony, a year or more in jail/prison. He gets out, and is a young adult. Stuck in his same old city, and now having a felony charge, there’s no way that he could get a new job (people are far too prejudice to ex-criminals, assuming "once a criminal, always a criminal" even though most of us have committed a felony at one point or another in our lives), so this young adult is forced to sell drugs again just to make ends meat. It’s a vicious cycle that is being continued by many of our unsensible laws.

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  27. 0
    JDKJ says:

    And inner cities are that way for a reason, and it has a lot to do with the people who live there.  White, Brown or Black, they’re not educated, they’re not intelligent, and more often than not, they’re extremely fucking lazy. 

    People who live in the inner city aren’t intelligent? You should know. Lack of intelligence seems to be your stock in trade.

  28. 0
    chadachada321 says:

    O, THAT’S who Joe Wilson is…Yeah I don’t think that he’s racist at all for what he did. A jerk, sure, but not inherently racist. And the Fireman case in (shit I forgot the name of the town) definitely shows that Sotomayor is very prejudice towards minorities.

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  29. 0
    Austin_Lewis says:

    How is Joe Wilson racist?  Because he called Obama a liar?  I didn’t realize that was racism these days.  And just because people disagree with Obama doesn’t make them racists.

    Are you shitting me about Sotomayor?  The calls made on her weren’t by ‘racists’, but by people who caught her spewing bullshit.  And if she had said it once, maybe it would be possible she misspoke.  But she made racist comments repeatedly, and there was even some racist slant in her findings.  Empathy in the court room isn’t something we need from Supreme Court Justices. And suggesting that the lashing out is driven is just retarded.

    And inner cities are that way for a reason, and it has a lot to do with the people who live there.  White, Brown or Black, they’re not educated, they’re not intelligent, and more often than not, they’re extremely fucking lazy.  And Affirmative Action is absolutely racist: it forces people to screw over more qualified candidates to meet a quota.  How is that fair?

    Oh, and obviously, you can only see racism against yourself when you harbor racist ideals.  So wait, does that make Obama, Sotomayor, Wright, Sharpton, and the list goes on a bunch of racists?  Your thinking is absolutely flawed.

  30. 0
    JDKJ says:

    At least you can readily admit the error of your ways. That is the first step on the journey down the road of wisdom. Keep it up. That way, you won’t end up like Austin Lewis: a dumb fuck and proud of it. 

  31. 0
    chadachada321 says:

    Hitler was intelligent…

    (Don’t take that as me being like some that say Obama = Hitler, I think that pretty much every president since Adams has abused his powers far too much)

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  32. 0
    chadachada321 says:

    *facepalm* Dammit I need to grow a brain. I read your reply several times, and even took it as nonsarcastic the first couple of times, even after reading </sarcasm>. I need to stop jumping the gun on the "anti-racism-racism-whatever" argument.

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  33. 0
    chadachada321 says:

    I just personally believe that the time for affirmative action programs has come and gone, and that Americans as a whole are pretty damn equal (at least as equal as our society will allow, with all of the bipartisanship and Us v Them mentality in every single goddamn issue. You’re pro-choice? Oh, then you must also be pro-social programs and against the death penalty or blah blah blah).

    I’ve never cared or even really listened to Rush or those guys, they seem too…well, wacko for me. Glenn Beck, while I agree on some of his policies, also carries some strong craziness of his own that puts me off slightly.

    Not much else to reply to on your comment, meh. I will say that there are a fair number of kids at my college (U of M) that grew up in Detroit but still got into U of M without affirmative action (which was voted to be put into Michigan law as no longer legal). I have mad respect for those guys, growing up in such a shitty environment but still learning english and getting a good education. Woot for them.

    Ugh, I need to step back and think about things for awhile. Sometimes I say things without thinking and then my mind just kinda feels the need to defend what I said, no matter how stupid it was.

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  34. 0
    chadachada321 says:

    Sadly, when Hillary was still a potential Democratic nominee, my mom stated that she would probably vote for Hillary because she’s a woman. >.> My mom is fairly conservative too, which threw me for a loop. That probably also had an effect on how I viewed other people’s voting habits, meh.

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  35. 0
    vellocet says:

    Being from a Canadian and very culturally diverse city, we don’t really have racism like you do in the states (here at least)… I’ll just tell you that – and of course I’m not american so you can tell me to shut up – the thought that "Things will be better now that a black man is finally a US President" is not what we think up here.  We think that "things will be better now that Bush isn’t president and the US finally elected someone intelligent".

    But that’s us, we’re not inundated with Beck, Rush, Oberman… um… in fact we are exposed to punditry so little that I don’t even know their names.

  36. 0
    vellocet says:

    But for some reason, women don’t seem to like Sarah Palin cause she’s a woman.  Or Michael Steele cause he’s black.

    Why Obama but not Steele?  Obama’s only 50% black… Steele is much blacker…

    It just doesn’t make any sense!

    </sarcasm> 

  37. 0
    vellocet says:

    I just wanted to point out that… although you guys are having a proper discussion and can admit your errors (like civil people do).  The Republican party (I’m not saying republicans, I’m saying the party) seems to take on that flawed argument.

    They do seem to believe that people vote for people based on race/gender/etc and not based on qualifications.  Palin is a good example.  Does anyone truly believe that she was qualified to be second command of the country?  Or was it that Republicans figured that people were voting for Hillary because she was a woman and not because she was qualified?

    Michael Steele is LAUGHABLE and an embarrassment to the party (like Palin is).  But don’t you think it’s interesting that Obama gets elected and they immediate appoint a Black man to RNC chair? And a black man who is also completely unqualified.

  38. 0
    Davis 51 says:

    I’m keeping this reply seperate, because I don’t want to belabor the point, but yeah, this isn’t entirely your fault. Rather, you heard repeatedly over the media that Obama has HUGE SUPPORT AMONGST BLACKS and 90% OF BLACKS FOR OBAMA!, without hearing it in any kind of context, along with people on FauxNews going "BLACKS LIKE HIM BECAUSE HE IS BLACK" all the friggin’ time 24/7. This is the problem with a media that goes after ratings before anything else. If something seems even slightly controversial, even MSNBC will talk about it for hours, but News Corp is the largest news network in the country, and unlike MSNBC and CNN, they have no standards of Journalistic integrity.

  39. 0
    Davis 51 says:

    K, I actually typed my post, then walked away to do something else, so I didn’t see your post way down, but you admit your mistake and I’m glad you did. 

    However, your trouble hearing about white areas that are racist against blacks is not due to its nonexistance, but rather your own ignorance. Talk radio hosts like Limbaugh and commentators like Beck and Bill-O, blatantly preach racism on TV all the time. They have huge bases of ‘dittoheads’. Don’t get me started on people like Joe Wilson.

    And the predominantly racist areas do still exist, just nowhere near where you live. The difference is that the white areas don’t advetise it. They just passively deny jobs to qualified black people and lock their car doors when a minority walks by them.

    Your call on Sotomayor (not Sotomayer), is utter crap. The attacks on her character as a "reverse racist" were made by racists themselves. As a caucasian upper-middle class male who lives very close to some very impoverished predominantly-minority populated areas, I can tell you that people in the majority (in the US, white males who have held total power in this country until VERY recently) only see ‘racism’ against themselves when they harbor racist ideas. I can also tell you that I have never once felt threatened, scared, or outraged by a single thing ever done by a minority in a position of political power. If you seriously think that any kind of program advocated by prominent minority politicians will have a ‘racist’ impact on whites, then you seriously need to re-evaluate your political beliefs.

    It is either some kind of boarderline fear that the scary dark-skinned people are going to do to them what they were doing against minorities for centuries, or a stemming from the belief that anything which upsets the establishment is destroying their very fabric of life. And this can be very scary to a lot of people.

    This does not mean that Obama or Sotomayor or whoever are racists, but rather the lashing out is driven by a blatant (but perhaps subconcious?) racist overtone, for to accuse those of racism is in fact racist in itself. In fact, I’d wager for every white person who was legitimagely wronged by Affirmative Action, there are maybe 12 who bitch and moan about how minorities unfairly took their own job with no actual facts to support this claim, nor anything to disprove that the minority could have just been more qualified. 

    You claim that the ‘racism’ you encounter doesn’t have anything to do with race, but the culture that inner city produces. What I think you don’t realize is that this ‘culture’ is an entire byproduct of severe poverty, which is why Affirmative Action programs exist in the first place. Those kinds of impoverished places more closely resemble goddamn warzones than cities. All I can say is that you are looking at things like the two sides of the flip-coin are equal. They are not. One of them is horribly scarred.

    Goddamnit, I subconciously worked in a batman analogy. Now I wanna play Arkham Asylum.

  40. 0
    chadachada321 says:

    Hey, people voted him in, if they are fine with spending trillions of dollars more that we don’t have, then it’s their choice. They’re "the majority," after all.

    Yeah yeah, I realize that the 50% white 90% black thing completely fits in with normal voting trends (blacks vote Democrat most of the time). I made a lengthy post admitting my fault a few posts down. I totally fucked up on that part and realize my mistake. I was wrong about that.

    But I disagree with the last sentence. I think that there are manyyyy extremes from whites, blacks, browns, and all minorities/majorities. Granted, we don’t have very many Malcolm X’s (from any race) anymore, but there’s still Al Sharpton who is racist against whites and Hal Turner against blacks. And Sotomayer, against whites. The list goes on and on.

    And, having grown up a stone’s throw from Pontiac and damn close to Flint and Detroit, I can say that whites are definitely discriminated against there for being white…I have trouble hearing of predominately white areas that are that prejudice against blacks these days. Just saying. It doesn’t even have to do with race, it’s the retarded culture that many deep-city people have.

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  41. 0
    chadachada321 says:

    Well soorrryyyy for not knowing that blacks generally voted Democratic…eesh. I honestly thought that this election was particularly different than other ones. My bad. I wasn’t pulling shit out of my ass, I just didn’t know.

    I looked it up. 84% of blacks voted for Clinton in ’96, compared to 43% of whites. And 83% in ’92 to 39%. I apologize for thinking that race had anything to do with this election, as the percentage would likely have been the same/similar no matter who the candidate was. I made a mistake, and I recognize my colossal error. Without knowing the normal voting trend, I assumed that the large difference was because of who Obama was, not what party he was. Now that I know the normal voting trend, I take back what I have said, and conclude that race had little-to-nothing to do with his election.

    I really wasn’t trying to be a dick or anything, I was just interpreting what data I had. I didn’t even think about the possibility of this election just fitting the normal voting trend.

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  42. 0
    Davis 51 says:

    ——–

    I didn’t say that I thought that they thought that Obama was racist. I’m saying that a fair amount of the black community is racist, and voted for Obama, at least in part, because he is half-black. ———-

     

    No…just no. I could write an entire essay about everything that was wrong with your statement.

    Here’s a hint, in order to quote Chris Rock, they didn’t vote for him because he was black, they voted for him because he was black and QUALIFIED. He was voted in because he was the MOST QUALIFIED. Because he is an ELOQUENT SPEAKER, and because his policies line up very closely to what reputable polls say American’s want.

    And the "He got 50% of the white vote but 90% of the black vote" argument, if you go to any Democratic town hall/political rally, you’ll find races completely proportional to the area’s demographics. Go to a Republican one, I dare you to find more black people than you can count on your hand.

    Or did it not occur to you that perhaps the majority of racists in this country are white?

  43. 0
    black manta says:

    I usually have a lot of respect for you and your point of view, but on this I think I have to wildly disagree.  And I also take offense to being a “blind follower” of Obama.  I’ve looked the guy up and down and I’ve yet to find anything about him that would be off-putting.  I personally think that he’s doing the best he can under the circumstances.  You forget he inherited the mess left by the previous administration, which is going to take a lot of time to clean up.

     

    I also find the comparisons to Sharpton and Jackson reprehensible as well.  He is nowhere near on the same level as those two.  I have not seen or heard anything from him that I would consider him excluding or favoring one group over another.  Obama is a politician sure, and like all of them he made promises, and it happened some of those promises he realized he couldn’t keep and had to make compromises when faced with the political realities.  But at the very least he tried, and he is still trying to accomplish the goals he has set for his presidency where possible.

     

    I personally like the man.  I think he’s the best president we’ve had in a while.  Certainly better than that moron Bush.  I personally don’t care if he’s black.  He could be charteuse for all I care.  I’m just glad that we have an INTELLGENT and rational person in the White House; one who has been seen to put a lot of thought behind what he does and who really seems to give a damn about this country.

     

    You want to say I’ve bought into a personality cult?  You want to say I’m naïve?  That I want socialism or whatever?  Fine.  I know he’s human and not perfect, but I personally can’t find anything the man has sad or done that I disagree with (except maybe all the comments about the Xbox, but even there I understood the point he was trying to make and didn’t fly off the handle about it like some here did).  I honestly do not understand where all this hatred and fear of him comes from.  All I know is that I voted for the man because I did not like the direction this country had been going in for the last eight years and I wanted someone whom I thought could turn things around and whose values and ideals were more or less in line with mine.  I believed that Obama was that person and still do.  And if you want to think I’ve been somehow deluded about it, go ahead.  I’m sticking to my guns on this.

     

  44. 0
    JDKJ says:

    When there is a 40% skew of voting results for one race over another, I’d say that race definitely played a part for a fair number of black people.

    You should inquire at your local community college as to whether they offer a Statistics 101 class. If they do, you should sign up for it. 

    Ask yourself what percentage of African Americans are registered Democrats and therefore are inclined to vote for a Democrat candidate regardless of race. Then ask yourself what percentage of the total African American vote Bill Clinton, a white man, received when he first ran for President. Then ask yourself why you like to pull shit out of your ass as if it makes a lick of sense. 

  45. 0
    chadachada321 says:

    Do you, or do you not, agree that a fair amount of black people voted for Obama (at least partly) because he is half black? I have a black friend who dislikes Obama’s policies and wouldn’t have voted for him were he old enough, but I know others that voted for him SOLELY because he was black. There are lots of people in between also, using race as a factor in their decision. When there is a 40% skew of voting results for one race over another, I’d say that race definitely played a part for a fair number of black people.

    Perhaps I should’ve said "hardcore racism from a fair chunk of the black community" instead, as that would be more appropriate. Not all black people voted for Obama because he was black, a fair chunk likely agree with a number of his policies, I acknowledge that. But race did play a part for an unknown-yet-large number of black people.

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  46. 0
    chadachada321 says:

    I didn’t say that I thought that they thought that Obama was racist. I’m saying that a fair amount of the black community is racist, and voted for Obama, at least in part, because he is half-black.

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  47. 0
    nightwng2000 says:

    "Anyone to me who says otherwise is just making stuff up."

    Which tells me you’re blind follower accepting the lies and deceit of others who make claims in favor of Obama.

    Despite the evidence of the racist remarks made at the NAACP alone.

    Despite his false claim that he wasn’t going to make his run for office about race, and then when, supposedly, certain members of his support staff started raising the issue of race, instead of telling them to get the frak out, he gets behind their racially biased efforts.

    Despite his own racist view that the issue of interracial marriage was a Civil Rights issue but that the issue of Homosexual marriage, under the NEUTRAL legal system, had nothing to do with Civil Rights.

    Despite his classist attitudes placing the value of high profile jobs and education over "average" education and job positions or even over the "less desirable" jobs, despite their equal importance to society and this country at large.

    The President of the United States should represent, protect, and do all they can to improve the lives of ALL US citizens.  Not just one group or the other.

    We do not have a Democrat President and a Republican President and an Independant President in charge all at the same time.  In fact, the runner up (opposing party) in an election is not made the Vice President.

    We do not have a President for each of the genders, each of the races, each of the religions and non-religions, each of the sexualities, or any other group you can segregate by, all running at one time, all representing, protecting, and improving the lives of only those groups they were voted to do these things for based on a segregated country.

    One President.  One Nation.  One population of citizens.

    To segregate in ANY way means the President will attempt to grant a bias towards one group while ignoring the very same issues that other groups also are a part of.

    Eliminate poverty for any one group, and you still have poverty.

    Improve the education system for any one group, and you still have a problem with the education system.

    Improve health care or any health care issue for any one group, and you still have a crappy health care system.

    Obama has openly pointed his finger at one group and, in effect, said "You are to blame for the problems of the other group.  I’m going to help them and screw you!"

    He is only slightly better than having the Racist Al Sharpton or the Racist Jesse Jackson as "The First Black President".  McCain was no better.  He, at the least, was a religious bigot like Bush.  And Hilary Clinton was a gender bigot.  We would have been screwed no matter which one was voted into office.

    And frankly, I AM getting tired of the still continuing "Things will be better now that a black man is finally a US President".  I know YOU didn’t say it, but I’m hearing it over and over on the bus on the way to and from work.  And I get the dirty looks.  You know what?  I just smile and think just how stupid these individuals are.  Because, you see, when Obama fails, and he already has on so many levels, it will just be HIM who fails.  I will call any fool a fool if they claim "Look!  A black man failed at being a US President!  That proves they can’t be Presidents!".  Idiots.  Remember about a decade ago when a woman applied at a military college and eveyone made a big deal about that?  And when she washed out, how a lot of folks actually did say it was proof that women couldn’t do what men did?  I, like a number of others, pointed out that it was common for even MEN to wash out, even that same year.  It wasn’t that women in general couldn’t do it, it was that SHE failed.

    It’s truly sad.  Our government, based on the government designed under the US Constitution, was supposed to be NEUTRAL.  It was supposed create unification despite diversity.  But, while the intent was good, the government had to be made up with Human ideas of segregation equals unification.  Yeah, I know.  No logical there whatsoever.  What do you expect from Humans?

    Nightwng2000

    NW2K Software

    http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000

    Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

  48. 0
    Skillz817 says:

     

    "However, the 90+% of black people that voted for him in comparison to the 50-% of white people…that shows hardcore racism from the black community."

     

    Douchebag of the day goes to chadachada321… seriosuly I’m black  and I voted for obama not because he’s halfblack I actually detest the idea of race and would love to strangle the jackass who came up with it but I don’t really agree with his views but Mccain wasn’t gonna do anymore of a better job.

  49. 0
    treydawg says:

    if this was the past and it was the deep south jim crow laws would say obama is black. anyways obama is bi-racial biologically but identity wise he is black and he refers to him self as being black.

  50. 0
    Father Time says:

    Agreed, there are many reasons someone might’ve voted for Barack, so to assume they all voted for the same reason, hell to even assume they all thought he was a racist, is stupid.

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  51. 0
    JDKJ says:

    However, the 90+% of black people that voted for him in comparison to the 50-% of white people…that shows hardcore racism from the black community.

    This statement wins you the Moron of the Year Award. Your T-shirt’s been mailed. 

  52. 0
    chadachada321 says:

    The fact that he spoke at the NAACP, which is now controlled by racist fucks, kind of implies a hint of racism. It’d be like some new female politician speaking in front of some incredibly feminazi group.

    Is Obama racist? Who knows, I sure don’t. Do I agree with his policies? About as much as I do with the Republican Party’s policies (that is, not at all). Obama seems like a much less racist person than many other people that claim to represent a minority, which makes sense because Obama isn’t even black, he’s half black.

    However, the 90+% of black people that voted for him in comparison to the 50-% of white people…that shows hardcore racism from the black community.

     

    As for my opinion on this article…I think UPS overreacted, personally, but that’s their perrogative, as it is for Stardock. Glenn Beck, while agreeable in some aspects, also has a bit of crazy in him that can get him in trouble sometimes. But whatevs, that’s his/Fox’s issue. Now as to why people are punishing Fox for what *1* person said…that seems the most overboard of everyone involved here.

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  53. 0
    Davis 51 says:

    *sigh* Of course, they have a right to do that. You completely missed the point. The decision by UPS to pull their ads has jack shit to do with politics, and everything to do with business.

    IT IS BAD FOR BUSINESS TO BE SEEN AS ASSOCIATED WITH RACISM. 

    Stardock, on the other hand, comes across as a bunch of whiners.

  54. 0
    DarkSaber says:

    UPS has every right to pull ads from Fox, Stardock has every right to take their business elsewhere if they disagree with this. To see it any other way is down to personal bias.

    ————————————————–

    I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

  55. 0
    Davis 51 says:

    No, UPS made a statement that they don’t want to be associated with a network that promotes racism (In case you missed it, Beck, and O’Reilly are racists), while Stardock says "your anti-racist boycott is stupid, let’s boycott the boycotters.

    They are not equal, and I for the life of me can’t understand why people think it is. UPS has every reason to pull ads from Fox. Being associated with scum like Beck gives horrid publicity, especially seeing as Beck melts down slightly more every night on TV. Stardock, however, has no other reason other than the owner’s nerdrageing. It is a supposed self-contradictory anti-boycott boycott is either the result of their own latant racism and furious backpedaling on the subject, or Brad Wardell is the dumbest motherfucker on the planet.

  56. 0
    DarkSaber says:

    Who, UPS or Stardock? They both are, so the statement applies to both equally. Or is it simply because one is seemingly against Beck and the other seems to be supporting him which makes one companies actions fine and the others condemnable?

    ————————————————–

    I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

  57. 0
    DarkSaber says:

    "Good luck mixing politics with business Stardock. I’m sure you wont be around much longer now that you have discovered your soapbox."

    I don;t see you saying the same thing to UPS…

    ————————————————–

    I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

  58. 0
    Father Time says:

    Yay straw men. No one ever said people don’t make racist attacks at Obama, we’re saying you dismiss every criticism as racism. Oh and conservative hardlines acting like idiots does not excuse you using dumb logic like "you don’t like the president, the president’s black, therefore you don’t like black people.

    The ‘if you disagree you’re evil’ reasoning was BS when the conservatives did it and equally BS when the libs are doing it now too.

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  59. 0
    DarkSaber says:

    Your fingers are moving, words are being typed. That’s never a good thing.

    ————————————————–

    I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

  60. 0
    Austin_Lewis says:

    To start with, being born on a Panamian military base still means one is an American, much like being born on an American Military base in Japan or on an American Military base in Germany.  It’s still technically American Soil.

    A big question that you seem to not care to notice is whether or not his indonesian citizenship makes him eligible for the presidency.  It’s a question that we don’t really have an answer to yet, especially since the courts don’t seem to care to think about it.

    And people didn’t call him a secret muslim without reason; he talks about the time he spent in Indonesia and his time as a muslim.  Even when he came to America, he spent years attending  a church run by a known racist.  Would you believe he never heard a word of what Wright said?  That’s as plausible as saying someone who spent years going to a Westboro Baptist Church never heard a word they said. 

    How is it racist to suggest that Obamacare is as useful as witch medicine?  Would it still be useful if we used Native American Shamans?  How about spiritual healers?  Oh, but because it’s someone black, that’s racist.  Huh.  Damnedest thing.  Of course, we can look the other way while Obama drops our standing, ignores our troops, spends more time campaigning than fighting a war, and basically lies every time he opens our mouth.  OH, and when he wastes government money flying himself up to Copenhagen to try to convince the Olympic Committee to hold the Olympics in a shitty town.

  61. 0
    MechaCrash says:

    Yeah, what’s wrong with me, calling bullshit on obvious bullshit. It <i>totally</i> isn’t racist when people demand to see Obama’s birth certificate (but not John McCain’s, who was born in Panama), it wasn’t racist when people made "Obamacare" posters of him as a witch doctor, it wasn’t racist when that "the easter egg hunt is cancelled" thing got leaked that showed the White House with a melon patch, it wasn’t racist when people called him a secret Muslim. Clearly, all of that is because of the issues, and to call these things racially inspired? Why, it’s time to clutch your pearls and get a terrible case of the vapors! Why, you’d never stoop to claiming that anybody who doesn’t heap praise on Bush hates America or anything of the sort!

  62. 0
    Zerodash says:

    Thank you for proving that Liberals are just as useless as Conservatives.  So much for "enlightnment" and "love & peace" you people pretend to stand for?  You people and Conservatives deserve each other.

  63. 0
    Father Time says:

    It makes even less sense than the right’s claim of anti-American.

    If Joe Biden was president and doing the same things, you could disagree just as strongly and not be a racist.

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  64. 0
    DarkSaber says:

    Again, exactly the same as when the shoe was on the other foot. Blinkered much?

    ————————————————–

    I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

  65. 0
    Zerodash says:

    So…because it happened to liberals it makes it okay for them to do the same thing?  Thats the ideology thats been keeping the Israel/Palestein nonsense going for so long. 

    Enjoy calling anyone who disagrees with you a "racist"- you have certainly earned that right after bearing a cross for 8 years.

  66. 0
    Wormdundee says:

    It’s ok, this is how American politics work. It’s all Us vs Them. It’s not about making sure your party has a good platform to run on that people agree with, it’s about shitting on the other party enough to make people want to vote for you instead.

    For a while now it hasn’t been ‘vote for the party that you want in power’, it’s been ‘don’t vote for the party that you don’t like’ while completely disregarding what the actual political platform that they’re running on is. It’s a pretty crappy setup.

  67. 0
    DarkSaber says:

    In that case the blame was on the right-wing, in this case the blame is with the "left"-wing. Your point?

    ————————————————–

    I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

  68. 0
    Sai says:

     Really? What basis is there to call Obama racist? Or to claim he destroyed the economy when he became president in an already destroyed economy, which in fact was due to Bush taking us from the largest budget surplus ever to the largest deficit ever? 

  69. 0
    Father Time says:

    Useless

    Inconsistent

    Illogical

    Clueless

    Any of those four will work.

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  70. 0
    Nekowolf says:

    "both of your parties are retarded in America"

    Yes, yes, and yes. Granted, I hate the GOP immeasurably more, but they’re both so…I don’t even know, use whatever word you feel like.

  71. 0
    chadachada321 says:

    Those laws could really come in handy in Detroit, Flint, or Pontiac then…Eesh am I discriminated in the deep parts of those cities. That’s why I’m glad to be living in Ann Arbor now, so much more tolerance and so much less crime.

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  72. 0
    Father Time says:

    I think the idea behind hate crimes is that most hate crimes (according to the logic of the law) are done to intimidate a group, basically a guy kills someone from [insert group here] to try to make a message telling everyone in the area that’s [same group] that they are unwelcome/should be afraid/whatever.

    —————————————————-

    Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it’s over they have the same positions they started in.

  73. 0
    chadachada321 says:

    Libertarians, that’s the way to go ^^

    At the very least, I support smaller government and more social rights. None of this "family values" bullshit that creates an illegal and immoral war on drugs, and none of the politically correct bullshit that has invaded from the left side.

    Treat people equal under the law. If someone makes fun of you, don’t sue them, make fun of them back or just ignore them. If someone is doing something that you think is "wrong," stop and think. Are they harming you in any way? If not, then there isn’t any point in making that action a crime. Prostitution, marijuana use, butt sex for Christ’s sake. All of these involve consenting adults and harm no outside parties. Fuck, if two clowns want to have a full-on, real duel-to-the-death, they should be able to! (After signing all sorts of papers to show that they truly wish to fight to the death over something, with witnesses and all that). The government is interjecting in everyone else’s lives.

    Here’s another example: Hate crimes. What the fuck are those anyways? If I shoot a man because he slept with my wife, that is "hate" just like hating them for being gay, so why treat the latter differently? Hate is hate, no matter the reason, and violent crime is violent crime. Don’t treat different motives as better or worse, unless they involve things akin to "this man raped my daughter so I tortured him," which is far more understandable and deserves a lesser punishment.

    -If an apple a day keeps the doctor away….what happens when a doctor eats an apple?-

  74. 0
    Geryon says:

    Actually that is not a bad point however, if you are concerned about the rank and file employees and are less likely to use the companies’ service or products due to the possible negative effects the CEO and executives have thrust upon them it seems odd that you are less likely to use their services or products as that would contribute to the negative effect for the employees.

  75. 0
    Neeneko says:

    For the same reason he can get away with one year talking about how horrible america’s health system is, then today talking about how it is the best in the world.

    He is entertainment, and as long as he puts lots of emotion into what he is saying, people will swallow it.

  76. 0
    Pinworm says:

     Because there actually is more rhyme and reason to claiming those things about Obama than there ever was to claim them about Bush?

    I don’t care either way, both of your parties are retarded in America.

  77. 0
    Sai says:

     What’s with people like Glenn Beck who think they can just take everything people said about Bush, turn it around, and claim it about Obama without much rhyme or reason?

  78. 0
    Neeneko says:

    This actually makes me less likly to use UPS or Stardock, but Stardock esp since it sounds like it was an individual using his company for personal politics, which I disapprove of since it tends to be the rank and file employies (who might hold differnt views) who then suffer for their CEO’s personal politics.

    While I am not thrilled that UPS is potentially hurting its people too, at least there was probably wider discussion first.

  79. 0
    Geryon says:

    Personally I always try to separate the product form the maker, this can be pushed to the limit at times however, EA comes to mind.  In this case though I will not be boycotting either UPS or Stardock.  I do not like Glenn Beck, I didn’t before he made that comment, so I don’t watch him.  I however, think UPS has the right to express their opinions and pull their ads, I also think that Stardock has the right do the same and drop UPS.  Lastly I think that other consumers have the right to disagree with my stance on such things and choose to side with one company or the other if they wish to.

  80. 0
    Xveers says:

    I wouldn’t put it past a politician (any one) to have some axes to grind, and I certianly wouldn’t put it past even Obama to have some gripes about the social/economic situation in the US. But to extend that so far as to go to racisim seems to be a strech. I had a real idiot at my old job. He was asian. But I didn’t think poorly because of where he was from, I thought poorly of him because he could barely do his job and was blatantly unqualified for what he did. At the same job there were employees of the same ethnic group that were supremely competent at the job and could do anything there even if they were comatose, and do it to perfection.

    The second thing is that association group does not nessassarily mean a sharing of views. I went to a private catholic high school, and elementary, but I’m pretty much completely atheist. Some of my former classmates are deeply conservative. If a teacher from there said that the earth was made in 4000 years and did a full new earth creationist arguement, it could be argued that because I go to the same school that we share views. Except we don’t.

    Think of it as a social version of  correlation =/= causation.

     

    Best keep your wits about you: The gears of life are always spinning, and ignorance eventually means you’ll get caught in them.

  81. 0
    Zerodash says:

    I know that there are parts of his book that indicate underlying issues with white folk.  The other thing is his long-time pastor who literally was spewing hate-speech. 

    At the end of the day, however, Obama is a relatively slick politician.  I think the right-wing attempts to smear him as an all-out racist may be a bit of a stretch.

  82. 0
    MechaCrash says:

    Cry me a fucking river. Remember when saying that Bush may not have been entirely truthful in the leadup to Iraq got you branded an America-hating terrorist sympahtizer?

  83. 0
    Zerodash says:

    All this boycotting stuff usually comes off as childish.  There are very few cases in which boycotting anything is warranted, ESPECIALLY in the case of political opinion. 

    Just having opposing views as someone else does not mean you have to boycott, ignore, or even dislike anyone or anything.  Its little more than the petty crap you expect from adolescent children and not adults.

     

    The real issue I take with all this is how ANY criticism of the President or his policy AUTOMATICALLY means you are a racist.  I have rarely seen such a disgusting state of affairs, and this time the blame falls on American leftists.  Shame on you. 

  84. 0
    axiomatic says:

    Right there with you.

    I have generally thought well of Stardock. But if they are going to align themselves with the likes of Glen Beck and the Faux News network then maybe I need to stop buying their products.

    Not that I’m actually liberal. I consider myself moderate. I have equal disdain for both US political parties as of late. But Beck is in fact a looney, and Fox is truly practicing yellow journalism so I guess I’m on the outs with Stardock.

    Too bad too, Demigod looked interesting.

    Good luck mixing politics with business Stardock. I’m sure you wont be around much longer now that you have discovered your soapbox.

  85. 0
    black manta says:

    Makes me wonder then if Brad Wardell is a supporter of Glenn Beck?  If so, maybe I should boycott Stardock now?  They’ve certainly lost my business if they support a douchebag like Beck.

  86. 0
    black manta says:

    Dude, what are you sniffing?  Ar you going just by the spurious accusations of the right wing or the emails that have been circulating, or do you have something else to substantiate that with?  If you’re referring to those books, Snopes did a great job of debunking those statements.  Here’s the link:

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/ownwords.asp

    Personally, I’ve never seen anything Obama’s done or heard him say anything that in any way could be construed as racism.  Anyone to me who says otherwise is just making stuff up.

  87. 0
    kagirinai says:

    Ok — really?

    I keep hearing people supporting this stuff about Obama being racist — as I’m not subject to the noise of American News, I’ve only heard the claims, not the actual acts.

    WHAT is it that’s causing these claims that he’s racist? I need some context here.

  88. 0
    nightwng2000 says:

    Obama has long since been proven a racist by his own statements and acts.  Of course, this is just one of several forms of bigotry that Obama is guilty of.

    Glen Beck, of course, isn’t much better.  Nor is Fox News.

    So, if Stardock disagrees with the decisions of a particular company, then they are free to act in their own best interest.  Why would it be wrong?  After all, all these companies that are boycotting FOX for disagreeing with what was said, why should it be any more wrong for someone to boycott THEM for THEIR opinions?

    Maybe everyone will boycott everyone else and we’ll eventually end up with a truly FREE economy.

    Nightwng2000

    NW2K Software

    http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000

    Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

  89. 0
    Zerodash says:

    American politics has become little more than two closed-minded judgemental groups who believe they have some kind of Moral Monopoly.

    Conservatives think they are the only ones capable of being spritually moral.

    Liberals think they are the only people capable of societal harmony- every non-liberal is considered to be a racist or sexist.

     

    We need a third (or more) "side" to break this bullshit here.  But people have such an idea of "one must fail for one to succeed" mindset that it may never happen.  I blame, to an extent, the "Football Culture" of America…which I could write several pages ranting about so I’ll stop here :)

  90. 0
    Guamish says:

    I love being american. Take a position and disagree its what we do :) However I could do with out the "Oh "insert name here" is racist" or the use of nazi. Strong terms that get more attention then the actual issue you were trying to debate. It is just circular and we end up where we start. Doing absolutly nothing to come to any type of solution or comment on the real problems.

  91. 0
    jb_moskow says:

    Boycotts in general are STUPID. Just take a look at the idiots who support the BDS (Boycott, Divestment & Sanctions) against the state of Israel. If you want to be able to reach a compromise and get what you want from a third party, boycotting them will not get what you want. 99% of the time the group you are boycotting is so big that they do not give a shit about your stupid attempts. Instead it is much much more effective to open up a channel of communication with said company, so that rational discussion can be had on the merits of particular corporate decisions.

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