Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

October 14, 2009 -

A group of gamers angry at Valve Software over the development of Left 4 Dead 2 are poised to disband their boycott group.

The Steam Group L4D2 Boycott, comprised of over 41,000 members will close on October 21, 2009 reports VoodooExtreme. The group was angered over what they termed Valve’s abandonment of the original Left 4 Dead game, which they expected more updates and content for, versus Valve’s decision to launch a new version of the game.

Steam user Agent of Chaos said the group had “accomplished everything we can” and added that “Our goal wasn’t to steer people away from L4D2, it was to get Valve’s attention and have them support original L4D. We succeeded and that’s where our mission ends; nothing more or less.”

Another group admin, Steam user Walking_Target stated that “people are unwilling or unable to wait for Valve to follow through in any cohesive way. Valve is at least trying to make things right, there will be speed bumps on the way, however we will get there.”

Labeling the boycott group a success, Walking_Target continued:

As a collective we have done more than achieve a few goals, we have paved the way for Developer-Community relations in the future. No matter what the press or other gamers say, we have made an indelible mark upon the future of this industry. You should all be proud, we certainly are.

Valve flew the leaders of the boycott group out to their offices in September in a bid to make peace.


Comments

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

The boycott was designed from the very beginning to get attention for the guy who started it. That's it. And it worked. It's hilarious how seriously Walking_Target takes himself, he probably sees himself as a gaming messiah or something.

Anyway, good riddance.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

The group leaders never really represented the members. Just because these two folks that 'run' the group are changing their stance doesn't mean the rest of the petitioners agree at all.

People joined because they knew it was too early for L4D2 and the 'leaders' used this to further their own agendas.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

What agendas? A flight to visit Valve and a sincere explanation from the developers? They're hardly on the gravy train or anything!

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

"Agent and I would like to invite you to follow us in our future endeavours."

Taken right from the announcement on the steam group. They then go on to give links and a short description of their projects.

These two became over-night celebrities and then abandoned ship when things were about to get rough. Some leaders.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

This reminds me of the Canadians on Strike episode of South Park and now the person who started the boycott now wants to make it seem like a victory so people don't send them adrift.  I'm not your friend, buddy...

http://www.deathvanquished.com

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

So, throwing a pointless tantrum is "paving the way for Developer-Community relations in the future"?  I sure hope not.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

Because exercising your right as a consumer in a constructive way is a pointless tantrum?

Seriously, since when does everyone stand up for the corps and hate on the little guy trying to make sure we all don't get screwed? I know I'm talking about Valve here, but ANYONE is capable of corrupting a good thing, even Valve. It would be naive of you to think otherwise.

Before you go "YOUR OPINION IS WORTHLESS BOYCOTTER", I ended up getting 4-pack with friends, but only because I had decided $30 was a fair price for the title anyway. I'm not impressed by what happened with L4D, and if it happens again, there won't be a third chance for Valve to screw up so gloriously.

Customer loyalty is earned, not given.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

What is your suggestion on how to conduct a boycott then?

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

A petition is one thing, having a political manifesto of sorts is another.

A sensible, rational goal would help too.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

Haha, these guys are full of shit. Everybody in that group was going to buy L4D2 anyway, and anything that Valve is doing now they were already going to do anyway. Basically, the entire group had no purpose and was probably just there in order for the 'leaders' to get attention. They accomplished nothing, and have nothing to be proud of.

Congrats.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

Why is the Kurt Cobain / Courtney Love article filed under "Zombies" but this one is not?  I's confustigated.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

This whole boycott was epic fail from the start.

---You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.

---You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

I'm a bit confused at their claiming 'victory' as well. They have nothing to show that they changed valve's mind at all. POSSIBLY they got Crash Course to come out sooner (before L4D2) instead of after, but that's a big possibly.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

Check the comments on the steam group. Easily 9 out of 10 members of the group do not agree with this claim of victory and are in active rebellion. There's a few supporters but not many...

Agent of Chaos and Walking_Target are not representative of the group at large.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

They're idiots.

They're obviously disbanding the group because L4D2 is about to be released and they're all going to buy it.  Just like they were always going to.

------- Morality has always been in decline. As you get older, you notice it. When you were younger, you enjoyed it.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

LOL.  I can only speak for myself, but I sure as heck am not going to buy it unless it's fully integrated into L4D1.  And, according to the developers, that will happen when Hell freezes over.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

I'm not buying L4D2 either. I'm not boycoting it anymore - just not buying it. L4D was fun, but a £15 game sold for £30. I expect L4D2 to be the same.

I'm not "only hurting myself" as I'm going to end up with £30 instead of £15 worth of game and £30 less cash.

--
A house is not a home unless it contains food and fire for the mind as well as the body. Benjamin Franklin

--
A house is not a home unless it contains food and fire for the mind as well as the body. Benjamin Franklin

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

Cheers, Mate.  I really can't argue that reasoning.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

If you choose to boycott L4D2 for the reason you stated, then the reality is that the only entity being "punished" is you. 

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

Do you have an issue with someone not buying a product that they know that they will not enjoy?  And do you think that if a person doesn't buy a product that they should not let their customer feedback be known in order to improve upon future products?

Anymore it really seems like people have in in their heads some sort of a reversed version of a customer and buisiness relationship.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

Do you have an issue with someone not buying a product that they know that they will not enjoy?
I have no problem with someone deciding not to buy a product for that reason.  But he never said he wouldn't enjoy it, he just didn't like that L4D2 isn't fully integrated with L4D.  In fact, I think it's fair to say that since he has enjoyd L4D, he would enjoy L4D2 as well.

And do you think that if a person doesn't buy a product that they should not let their customer feedback be known in order to improve upon future products?
Explain to me how someone can give feedback on product they haven't purchased, and therefore haven't used?  I don't really think anything productive comes out of someone not buying a product because they thought it should have been released in a different way; as opposed to feedback based on what the product actually is.  Especially when it appears that Valve has said to his specific issue "Nope, we're not going to do that" which means they probably thought about it, and decided against it.

Anymore it really seems like people have in in their heads some sort of a reversed version of a customer and buisiness relationship.
I know exactly what you mean, only the opposite of what you mean.  The consumer is not always right, despite the saying.  If they truly were, no one would pay for any product... ever.  Because really, isn't that what would be most ideal for the consumer?  Valve has a great reputation with most of their fans, because of how interacts with them, this includes how they release their DLC. 

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

"I have no problem with someone deciding not to buy a product for that reason.  But he never said he wouldn't enjoy it, he just didn't like that L4D2 isn't fully integrated with L4D.  In fact, I think it's fair to say that since he has enjoyd L4D, he would enjoy L4D2 as well."

Satisfaction with a product is more than just the product itself.  There are other factors involved as well that all add up to the satisfaction with a product.  I like the products and prices at Target.  But with their idiotic pulling of Manhunt 2 from their shelves I've stopped doing buisiness with them.  So again I wonder if you think that a person should not be able to choose not to buy a product?

"Explain to me how someone can give feedback on product they haven't purchased, and therefore haven't used?  I don't really think anything productive comes out of someone not buying a product because they thought it should have been released in a different way; as opposed to feedback based on what the product actually is.  Especially when it appears that Valve has said to his specific issue "Nope, we're not going to do that" which means they probably thought about it, and decided against it."

Again I'm refering to more than just the product itself.  I'm talking the all encompassing view of the compnay it's self.  So if Harley Davidson made a new bike that states that no American worker whatsoever had anything to do with it's design or production, knowing their customers they wouldn't be very pleased.  That is regardless of the actuall mechanical prowess of the bike.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

To be up front, I have no problem with anyone choosing to not buy a product for any reason they choose.  It just frustrates me when someone seems to be smug, or acting like they've achieved a victory of some kind because of their decison, when I consider their complaint to be a non-issue.  Valve's decision to make L4D2 a true sequel rather than an expansion to the original is wildly different than your H-D example, since the H-D brand has always had a large amount of pride as being "American Made." 

My impression is that the gamers most vocal in their displeasure with L4D2 are worried for various reasons that Valve is going to try to screw gamers with L4D2. I've seen complaints that it is like the DLC many companies have put out in an attempt that seems to be transparent attempts to get more money from the consumer, or that they're going to abandon L4D.  I'm guilty of lumping BB into this particular group, since the complaints seem so similar.

I guess in the end I feel bad for Valve. They've released many free updates in recent years for their products, yet they had to prove that they're not trying to screw gamers with L4D2.  That's not what Valve has ever done, and I don't think they're doing it now.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

"To be up front, I have no problem with anyone choosing to not buy a product for any reason they choose.  It just frustrates me when someone seems to be smug, or acting like they've achieved a victory of some kind because of their decison, when I consider their complaint to be a non-issue."

One man's non-issue is another man's actual issue.  And anyways, pretty much with a boycott you are trying to achieve victory of some sort.  Its sorta what a boycott is.

"Valve's decision to make L4D2 a true sequel rather than an expansion to the original is wildly different than your H-D example, since the H-D brand has always had a large amount of pride as being "American Made."

It was merely an example that more things need taken into account rather than just the product it's self.

"My impression is that the gamers most vocal in their displeasure with L4D2 are worried for various reasons that Valve is going to try to screw gamers with L4D2. I've seen complaints that it is like the DLC many companies have put out in an attempt that seems to be transparent attempts to get more money from the consumer, or that they're going to abandon L4D.  I'm guilty of lumping BB into this particular group, since the complaints seem so similar."

Yeah, I feel pretty screwed myself.

"I guess in the end I feel bad for Valve. They've released many free updates in recent years for their products, yet they had to prove that they're not trying to screw gamers with L4D2.  That's not what Valve has ever done, and I don't think they're doing it now."

Benefit of the doubt?  No, I don't do that.  Their reputation means nothing to me.  The only thing that matters is this singular issue on it's own.

My boycott continues.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

 "Do you have an issue with someone not buying a product that they know that they will not enjoy?"

Well it's not so much "not enjoy" as it is, "not worth what it costs"

i would not be surprised if L4D owners would hesitate to buy L4D2... thus far it doesn't feel like a full enough sequel to the game and feels more like an expansion... as such, if it were me, i might wait until the price drops before getting it... Kinda like how i feel about halo ODST... if you NEVER got halo 3, then it's worth the $60; but if you got not only Halo 3, but also already got all the DLC maps; then i say wait until it's like $20

 

i can identify with the desire to integrate L4D and L4D2... personally i don't have L4D, i was gonna get it, but hesitated when i heard the news of L4D2 thinking maybe i should save my money and wait... but know i feel conflicted as i have no idea if my friends will jump on board with L4D2 or not... on the one hand L4D2 has more content, on the other hand my friends still play L4D... but since they are uncertain they might jump onboard with L4D2 and thus i can just wait...

Frankly, if they had just made the damn thing a paid expansion or something like that, i could have avoided the issue of "how shall i spend my gaming money" and just grabbed L4D...

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

I don't get this at all.

They promised us that survivor update, they gave us that survivor update. Unless I'm missing a news post or something, thay gave what they said they would, end of story. You wanted more? That's your problem, not theirs. They never said anything about giving more, quit acting like they did. There's no rule or law saying that they they "owe" you any more updates or content post release.

Oh sure, there's crash cource, but I doubt it's the result of any boycotting. Also, L4D2 is Steam's top seller right now so yeah, good job, you really showed them I'm sure.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

It's quite a sad indicator of how over-consumerist our society has become when a bunch of people get so uppity over the content of a frickin' entertainment product that they organize a protest/boycott with such passion.  Imagine if all that energy went to something constructive and, dare I say important?

This is hardly even pulling the "it's just a game" angle either.  Getting passionate about the creative future of a growing expressive medium is one thing.  That's time well spent.  Getting so passionate because game X is too similar to game Y and doesn't have enough content to warrant the price is just idiotic. 

Don't buy the game and send an email. Going any further just perpetuates the stereotype that gamers are losers with no life. 

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

I don't know..... demonstrating that there WILL be backlash when a company makes a claim like "Buy X now and you will recieve Y later' and then appears to go back on it.

True, on a micro level it is only a single game.. but on a macro level companies will now have an example to point to that yes, consumers do remember when money changes hands based off a promise of content.  That is important industry wide.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

Thats the problem I've had with the whole boycott thing from the start, however.  Valve never said they weren't going to continue supporting the original Left 4 Dead.  The boycotters simply assumed that they were, and rather than wait for relevant details, they started an electronic petition.  Then, refused to believe Valve when they said they were still releasing DLC for L4D, because it would invalidate the main crux of their complaint.

What it says to me on the macro level is closer to the idea that even if a company offers something different and new on top of the other content they are working on releasing, people would rather find something to complain about.  And then do so loudly, rather than have a rational conversation.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

To those of us who play games a lot, it IS important.  I often spend 1/3 of my day playing computer and video games.  That makes the issue important.  As customers we get to boycott whenever we like.  If you want to be satisfied with whatever developers care to give you, that's your problem.  I prefer to have full control over my money.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

Wait, they think they won? Valve sells some DLC for the original game just before the sequel comes out and they think they've won?

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

They have Valve right where they want them.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

people are unwilling or unable to wait for Valve to follow through in any cohesive way.

That kind of sums up how I feel about the boycotters themselves.  L4D2 is announced and they immediately assumed that Valve would completely turn their backs on the original game. 

Hey, what's this my Steam account is downloading?  It appears to be extra content!  For free!

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

Its a good thing I was never a part of their "group".  Therefore my boycott remains.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

I was a part of the group, but it was never a top-down thing anyway.  It was a grass-roots thing, and most of us didn't agree with that silly 'manifesto'.  We joined simply to send Valve a more cohesive message.  I'm sure there are many of us who still won't be buying L4D2 because our issues are still unresolved.

L4D2 will STILL take players away from L4D.

L4D2 is STILL what was originally supposed to be L4D DLC.

I'm still willing to pay for L4D2 as long as it's L4D DLC (i.e. if it's fully integrated into L4D).  I am not willing to pay for a new game that's going to take players away from the original.  On the other hand, from what I've seen of it, L4D2 is probably going to be a bit of a disappointment anyway (incendiary bullets are just one clue that the gameplay will be lame), so maybe it won't be such a distraction.  Still, it's the principle of the thing.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

...wait...they acomplished something? news to me /sarcasm

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

Claiming victory for Valve doing something they were probably going to be doing anyway? They musta been taking lessons from JT.

--------------------------------------------------

I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

-------------------------------------------------- I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

EXACTLY!

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

What did Valve offer? If not money then-- oh, wait, that trip. RIIIGHT.

The whole boycott thing was stupid from the start anyway.

Steam ID: canadakiller

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

Truly, much ado over nothing.

“Our goal wasn’t to steer people away from L4D2, it was to get Valve’s attention and have them support original L4D. We succeeded and that’s where our mission ends; nothing more or less.”
I'll be honest in saying I'm not fully read up on this, but weren't Valve doing it anyway? Are they really claiming a victory?

"As a collective we have done more than achieve a few goals, we have paved the way for Developer-Community relations in the future. No matter what the press or other gamers say, we have made an indelible mark upon the future of this industry. You should all be proud, we certainly are."
You have got to be kidding me. 40,000 annoyed gamers signed an electronic petition, which created a bit of a stink on the internet and was a complete over-reaction in the first place.

I also suspect that the writer of the above quote is the same person who, ridiculously, used political words and rhetoric in their original claims (I forget what exactly - something like how they had a manifesto or something).

And the first reply to their thread ends with:
"You're a sellout !! "

. . . Some people are never happy.

 
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