NYC: Net Neutrality Hearings Today

November 20, 2009 -

The New York City Council Committee on Technology in Government is holding public hearings today on the subject of Net Neutrality.

A live stream of the hearings is available on LiveStream. The Council is live Tweeting coverage as well here. Also look for hashtags #netneutrality or #reso712A.

Entertainment Consumer Association (ECA) Vice President and General Counsel Jennifer Mercurio gave testimony earlier today in support of Net Neutrality.

A sample of her testimony:

ECA is strongly in support the proposals you’ve outlined in Resolution 712A-2007 and of the concept of Network Neutrality, the principle that protects one’s choice of content and equal opportunity on the Internet. Like President Obama, who has pledged to make Network Neutrality the law of the land, we believe that Network Neutrality is a key right for consumers, insuring continued enjoyment and use of the Internet for a variety of applications including recreation, creativity and economic expansion.  This is especially true for video game players (gamers), because our hobby is increasingly tied to the Internet.  Of the 117 million active gamers in the US, 56 percent play games online, accounting for over 65 million Americans.


Disclosure: The ECA is the parent company of GamePolitics


Comments

Re: NYC: Net Neutrality Hearings Today

I've read & seen that net neutrality is basically hulu.com, youtube.com, yahoo.com, google.com, facebook.com & so on would charge a fee to use their sites to watch or search for or just do any activity including gaming like flash games for the casual gamers out there. I think charging for the services of any site is ridiculous. We pay enough for our games & for internet!

 

 

"It's better to be hated for who you are, then be loved for who you are not." - Montgomery Gentry

"It's better to be hated for who you are, then be loved for who you are not." - Montgomery Gentry

Re: NYC: Net Neutrality Hearings Today

It baffles me that ECA continues to step on their own toes with this.  If the ECA truly supports video games then they are doing video gamers a disservice by supporting anything to do with net neutrality regulation.

The FCC NPRM proposed last month prevents ANY discremination in applications.  Which means video games will have 0 prioritization. You will have massive jitter in your online games. i.e. lag or queue stacking.  You will have no priority over your next door neighbors 24/7 torrenting, or any other bandwidth heavy applications.  Gaming traffic is very, very small. But its time sensitivity is extremely high.

If you support video gaming, you should not be supporting regulation.  Support neutrality all you want, but support it by using smart infrastructure, not dumb networks that treat everything the same.  Everything on the net is not the same. And applications like video games and VoIP must have priority. If you think the neutrality argument is about blocking websites, you are very misinformed. Find your local network engineer and pick their brain.

www.digitalsociety.org/2009/11/podcast2/

Re: NYC: Net Neutrality Hearings Today

No not everything is the same but when dealing with an opportunistic media industry you have to treat all data the same, its just a same we can't treat all data lines the same. One can not really give any business priority over data speed, not on the internet at least for a closed network like Live or PSN ya that is fine but the net not so much because its simply to big and there is to much to screw up to even try it without better and easier to use technology.



As for games and speeds/pings thats simple you'll have to wait until the net can prioritize small data bursts from game severs I am sure it could be worked into a new protocol that ISPs can easily adopt, this protocol would not give you much in the way of speed of perhaps an 1/8th or a 1/4 to a half of your line speed  at half the ping, you need to think outside the box instead of try and poke holes it.



Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: NYC: Net Neutrality Hearings Today

<<As for games and speeds/pings thats simple you'll have to wait until the net can prioritize small data bursts from game severs I am sure it could be worked into a new protocol that ISPs can easily adopt, this protocol would not give you much in the way of speed of perhaps an 1/8th or a 1/4 to a half of your line speed  at half the ping, you need to think outside the box instead of try and poke holes it.>>

 

How are ISP's going to prioritize when the NPRM doesn't allow them to prioritize.  Considering that your argument is dead right there, we don't need to move on to the fact that what you're asking for is impossible because you're essentially asking for buffering or cacheing.  That doesn't work in a video game where action and reaction is instantaneous.

Re: NYC: Net Neutrality Hearings Today

Your arguments about how those who support video gaming shouldn't support net neutrality doesn't even begin to make sense. Let's say, net neutrality fails, who's to say that there will not be any ISP who will set packets by online games to a lower priority such that their "time-sensitive" VOIP packets do not get interrupted by those pesky gamers who dare to use their purchased connection to play online games?

Also, your post seems to be filled with strawmen arguments. I doubt that you would find someone here who is somewhat up to date on net neutrality issues who would think that it is all about blocking websites. While it IS true that your "gaming traffic" will have no priority over your neighbour's traffic of a "lower priority", your neighbour's traffic isn't going to have any priority over yours anyway..

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oooh! You mean there are people around with the mythical "Common Sense"?

------------------------------------------------------------------------ Oooh! You mean there are people around with the mythical "Common Sense"?

Re: NYC: Net Neutrality Hearings Today

So your position then is that you would rather have government mandated rules that will with 100% certainty if passed, destroy your online gaming experience rather than have no regulation with a increadibly small percentage chance that an ISP would delay an extremely small bandwidth application?

Not only is that insane logic, but it would never happen.  On one hand Neutralist want to claim that ISP's want to block high bandwidth applications like torrenting so that small applications can get through.  Now on the other hand you want to claim that ISP's want to block small applications for the big ones.  You can't have it both ways.

There is zero reason why an ISP would want to block an application like an online video game that is on average taking up roughly 300Kbps.  That is basically non-existent traffic compared to other applications and content delivery mechanisms on the Internet.  The only difference is that without priority, your game is screwed.

Yes, you are correct, your gaming traffic will have no priority over your neighbors bit torrent traffic, and his torrent traffic will have no priority over your video game traffic.  You are absolutely, 100%, without a doubt correct on this point.  And that is the crux of the entire issue.

This is very common sense at this point, and considering your sig, you should appreciate this.  If gaming is a time-sensitive application, and torrenting is not a time sensative application.  What happens when torrent packets get queue stacked behind your gaming traffic at the neighborhood router? Nothing.  What happens when your gaming packets get queue stacked behind your neighbors torrent traffic at the router? Your game lags and when the new packets finally get through, you've died, you crashed, you fell down a hole, whatever. Game over.

 

 

www.thelobbyist.net

Re: NYC: Net Neutrality Hearings Today

Sorry for the double post, got too wordy on that other one.

As for your claim that Net Neutrality would with a 100% certainty destroy my gaming experience, I would have to say that its dubious at best. Your claim that is. Your position is such that my traffic would then be queued with the others and in times of congestion, lag and die? This is a given should there be such a serious lag. However, if there is enough traffic overall throughout the day that would congest their infrastructure all day, it would probably be a good hint to the ISPs that they probably need to get some upgrading on hand. At present, ISPs would like to squeeze as much customerbase that they can from their current infrastructure before they would even consider upgrading. This is a given, but I do not see any value in getting ANY of my traffic treated as a 2nd class citizen when they manage their networks in order to maintain a decent level of service for their "priority" services.

This is the reality that could occur as broadband/cable coverage expands. ISPs will not want to have to justify to their shareholders that their push for more clients would incur costs. They'd very much like to widen their customer base without spending any more than they already are regularly.

To show why I see your claim as unlikely, I would point out that without a viable way for them to manage their networks unfairly, they would then have to invest in infrastructure. Failing which, an opposing ISP could easily pop in and snatch up customers with a simple tag line of "Ain't as slow as the other guys who don't spend on infrastructure". 

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Oooh! You mean there are people around with the mythical "Common Sense"?

------------------------------------------------------------------------ Oooh! You mean there are people around with the mythical "Common Sense"?

Re: NYC: Net Neutrality Hearings Today

I see that you do not get the point. First off, yes, lag is usually a silly issue that can happen with or without prioritising of traffic. Especially if your local router/switch to the ISP's network is borked and/or loaded with all of your neighbours. BUT, as a habit, game traffic tends to be in the order of 10kb/s or thereabouts and yes, it IS time sensitive.

However, that IS the common sense approach that I am taking in appraising this situations. You say that there is no reason for ISPs to deprioritise my gaming traffic? This in itself is odd. In explaining, I shall raise the example of what if say, my ISP happens to be running a lucrative VOIP service using their beautiful pipes. Now, you also state that VOIP tends to be time sensitive too. In this situation, IF my ISP wants to maintain the service level given to their VOIP clients, what happens to MY time-sensitive gaming traffic? If push comes to shove, would you imagine that they'd prioritise my traffic on the same level as theirs? Hardly. At present as it is, the ISPs of the States at the least, seem to bristle at the very thought of having their pipes get data sent in from sites that aren't their partners. Of course, for arguments' sake, we can then assume that some high performing MMORPGs are paying my ISP to allow their traffic free rein. What if I wasn't subscribed to such a MMORPG? Did you imagine that my ISP would then be willing to allow my gaming traffic any form of priority?

The situation would then develop such that they'd be more likely than not, to prioritise the traffic of their partner MMORPGs over unpartnered ones. So what happens to me? Even if we take away any partnerships with MMORPGs, based on the visible mindset of ISPs to slow down traffic that they do not agree with, even if its legitimate according to their terms, what makes you think that they will be willing to allow my traffic any chance of a timely travel?

And that, is my point of view of what would happen if say, net neutrality was poofed. In short, without any guidelines or commitments by my ISP to ensure that my stuff doesnt get shortchanged in order to benefit their network should they decide that its not worthwhile to improve their infrastructure. Its more likely that not that they will manage the networks in favour of their own interests and not mine, despite me being a paying customer.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oooh! You mean there are people around with the mythical "Common Sense"?

------------------------------------------------------------------------ Oooh! You mean there are people around with the mythical "Common Sense"?

Re: NYC: Net Neutrality Hearings Today

I viewed the livestream for a few minutes. Noticed that no one was throwing chairs or choking anyone. This will clearly result in an unproductive day if no one was actually threatened or injured.

Re: NYC: Net Neutrality Hearings Today

I wonder how many ringers Comcast decided to try to put i nthis time.

Re: NYC: Net Neutrality Hearings Today

If they were there, I'm sure Google had plenty Net Neutrality lobbyists there to counter balance. What I don't get about the people that complain about lobbying on this site is the fact that the people supporting Net Neutrality actually have MORE lobbyists in DC than the telecomm companies. Not to mention the fact that you are supporting a website that is owned by the ECA who themselves have lobbyists.  Double standard much?


Re: NYC: Net Neutrality Hearings Today

Net Neutrality supporters have MORE lobbyists in DC than the telecommunications companies? Do they send more on a company to company basis than the telecomms fellows do? Or on an overall basis? I hate to do it as wikipedia does but, <Citation Needed>.

 

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Oooh! You mean there are people around with the mythical "Common Sense"?

------------------------------------------------------------------------ Oooh! You mean there are people around with the mythical "Common Sense"?

Re: NYC: Net Neutrality Hearings Today

We need the infrastructure itself to be made into something no single corporation or businesses can own or use exclusivity, have the business giver our double the taxes to the government who sub out maintenance with business's and match repairs and upgrade funding  100%.


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! Stop supporting big media and furthering the criminalization of consumers!! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: NYC: Net Neutrality Hearings Today

And in a fit of irony, the website is blocked by Comcast.

Kidding!

 
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PHX CorpI'm going to do a test stream later today, if anyone is intrested07/31/2014 - 2:40pm
Andrew EisenYes, I'm such a big Nintendo dork that I read Nintendo's quarterly financial reports.07/31/2014 - 2:09pm
Andrew EisenCool tidbit - Mario Kart 8 sales account for more than half of total Wii U software sales for the last quarter even though it was only available for the last third.07/31/2014 - 2:09pm
Andrew EisenStill a pretty cool promotion. Unfortunately for me, I'm not interested in purchasing Mario Kart 8 and I already owned or didn't want any of the free games on offer.07/31/2014 - 1:43pm
Andrew EisenInteresting that EU had 10 games to choose from while North America only had four.07/31/2014 - 1:41pm
MaskedPixelanteIt certainly worked, I probably would never have bought Mario Kart 8 if it didn't come with a free copy of Wind Waker HD.07/31/2014 - 1:14pm
Andrew EisenI imagine will see similar promotions like "Buy Mario Kart 8 get a download code for one of these specific games" but almost certainly not for all of its (however you would define) biggest releases.07/31/2014 - 11:24am
MaskedPixelanteI wonder if Nintendo is going to be doing "buy one get one free" promos for all their biggest releases going forward.07/31/2014 - 10:48am
MaskedPixelantehttp://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/special-report-retail-revolt-over-pc-code-strippers/013614007/31/2014 - 8:27am
ZippyDSMleeWouldn't they be able to afford and get done in a timely manner a general gba emluator for the 3DS? It seems to me if they want to make money off sales they need to do it.07/31/2014 - 7:25am
Sora-ChanAmbassador program, that's what I was looking for. Anyway the other games that have been made no longer exclusive to the early adopters got updates in their software. It'll only be a matter of time more than likely for the GBA to get the same treatment.07/31/2014 - 5:35am
Sora-ChanI might be naming it incorrectly when I say "founder" i mean the program for earlier adopters.07/31/2014 - 5:34am
Sora-Chanthe 3DS's GBA emulator was a rush job due to the founder program. No other GBA titles have been released on the 3DS yet. If/When they do get around to it, they'll more than likely update the emulation software.07/31/2014 - 5:32am
Zenemulator...it's not just a slap job that makes "some" work..they do it for each which is why they work so well. I would rather have the quality over just a slap job.07/30/2014 - 5:48pm
ZenMatthew there is a difference between "worked" and "accurate". You play the Nintendo VC titles they play as damn close to the original as possible. The PSP would just run them as best they could, issues and all. And Masked...EACH VC title has their own07/30/2014 - 5:48pm
MaskedPixelanteOnce again, the 3DS already HAS a GBA emulator, it just can't run at the same time as the 3DS OS.07/30/2014 - 4:54pm
Matthew Wilsonyou cant street pass in ds mode ether, and if moders can make a gba emulator that runs very well on the psp as I understand it. you are telling me that Nintendo devs are not as good as moders?07/30/2014 - 4:49pm
Zenperformance. Halo 1 and 2 worked great because they actually did custom work on each of them...just like Nintendo does now lol07/30/2014 - 4:08pm
Zenexisting hardware while the GBA has to be emulated completely. Same reason the 360 couldn't run most Original Xbox games correctly, or had issues because they just did "blanket approach" for their emulation which led to game killing bugs or horrible07/30/2014 - 4:07pm
ZenSora/Matthew: It's not just Miiverse, but the whole idea of streetpass and things like that would be affected if the OS is not running. And just because a 3DS game can be downloaded and run does not mean that GBA can as easily. Those 3DS games use the07/30/2014 - 4:06pm
 

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